BS: What causes AIDS?

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 02:11 PM

If scientests could have been smart enough to figure out how to engeneers HIV, they probably would have had enough brain cells to realise it sucks as a bio-weapon.

Biological weapons kill or disable quickly, so they have to be disseminated quickly and easily. They don't travel around and wind up in your, or your allies' countries, and you damned well better have some form of vaccine or cure for your own selves before you let them out.

I don't think taking advantage of a pre-existing population-culling disease is beyond some folks though. No, I KNOW it's not beyond them. I've met enough morons who've said something like "It only kills them junkies, whores and hummasekshuls, and them bastards had it comin'! The lord done SMOTE them with his wraths!" I guess they think all those babies, infected transfusion recipients, and heterosexual partners of Bad People had it coming too. I don't supposed it's beyond the realm of possibility for stupid and vengeful to get in a position where all they have to to kill people was ignore the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 01:16 PM

Be careful with your blood pressure, Amergin. Who told you it resulted from a clump of dust that had been buried for years? And regardless of what ideas I may have, my ideas do not have a damned thing to do with the reasearch or lack thereof that has gone into or will go into AIDS. And yes, it is a conspiracy theory, and I don't really care what your thoughts are about it. We've each had a say, and I hope it was good for you too.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Amergin
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 01:07 PM

So what group is suppose to have created this disease? If it was in a lab how come it was traced back to Africa? How come the first actually documented cases were European health workers and rich Africans? One of the first European deaths was a lesbian Danish woman. She received it due to lack of proper medical supplies...and sterilisation equipment. If you wish to look for a conspiracy in this epidemic, then look for where it actually resides, a republican administration that didn't think AIDS was worth researching because it was only getting the fags, junkies, and whores; the lack of media coverage due to the same reasons sighted above; the refusal of the gay communities across the country to recognise the problem for what it is as they feared it was really just something cooked up by the government to crack down on gay behaviours; the lack of attention from the medical community as they just thought it was from a mixture of the drugs, crisco, and other behaviours of the gay community; and the list goes on.

If you are looking for a government lab that supposedly created this dreadful disease, then you may as well search for the men in black and those who actually shot JFK. This erroneous and ill founded thinking is nothing but a conspiracy theory at its most asinine.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 12:59 PM

How nice! I love it when people apologize.

Cookies all around?

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 12:48 PM

Thanks, buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 12:46 PM

Sorry Brucie, you've got me there! I don't remember your remarks but, if you said anything that you feel you should apologise for, just consider your apology accepted. I like a good argument, and I can be very forceful and opinionated myself, but I don't sulk - life's too short. I've disagreed strongly with others on Mudcat but I have no ill-feelings, just regrets that I couldn't persuade them. But c'est la vie, as they say in Japan! (LOL)
Cheers,
Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 12:20 PM

We had cross posted above, SJ. I owe you an apology from a few weeks back and I offer it to you here. I was dealing with some issues, but that doesn't excuse my remarks. I'm sorry.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 11:58 AM

Well said Brucie, good post. Understanding of the disease and compassion for it's victims are what's needed and you seem to have them both.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 11:16 AM

I had understood that the suspected initial cause of transmission to humans was from a young boy who had been BITTEN by a green monkey. The ridiculous assumption by that idiot above who talked about sex between monkey and human is a misunderstanding that persists amongst the ill-informed--and something that likely causes his wet dreams.

The methods of transmission are fairly clear today, but the mechanism of transmission not so. The disease was rampant amongst homosexual men, but it has spread to heterosexuals. The notion that AIDS was caused by homosexuality is erroneous. Once it entered the human population, it was simply a matter of time before it spread. And spread it has. What is most unfortunate is the ignorance that surrounds the issue of AIDS, and the ignorance with which people are labeled and despised. What is even scarier is that AIDS is again on the rise. It seems many kids today are not putting a raincoat on Mr Happy, and kids are of the mistaken belief that oral sex isn't really sex--Clinton didn't help on this one--so there's nothing to worry about.

The travesty that overtook blood services (basically, lax quality control) has helped with the spread, although it seems to be improving. That is little consolation to recipients of blood infected with hepatitis or the AIDS virus.

Amergin's remark notwithstanding, AIDS is a way to depopulate areas of the world, and I wouldn't put it past some of the sick bastards who think up ways to effect world domination to use this (or any other method) to achieve their goals. I do think that AIDS is being used as a bio-economic weapon, and in that regard, Bobert's remarks should be read for intent.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 10:52 AM

RH - it's not only homosexual men who indulge in this 'disgusting unnatural practice'. I'm reliably informed that many heterosexual couples find anal intercourse enjoyable (I hasten to add I'm not someone who himself wishes to indulge, mais chacun a son gout). Do they deserve to die of AIDS too, just because they enjoy something you and I don't wish to be involved in?

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: harpgirl
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 10:29 AM

rhoda horse, you're an idiot! The slaughtering and eating of primates in Africa originally spread AIDS. Homosexual sex practices are much more secondary in India and Africa in terms of infection. Protective behavior will inoculate Americans and the rest of the world, to some extent but I think that AIDS will be the demise of the human population if it is not stopped.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 10:23 AM

Regarding the trolls, there's a certain level of stupidity people can reach that pretty much screams "NOTICE ME! COME FLAME ME!" It's intentional ignorance, and isn't much fun, unless you like playing S & M word games with people.

I got the impression that Bobert was saying there WAS no AIDS epidemic, and that most of the cases were misdiagnosed. Then again 'But I'm still suggesting strongly that when this is all said and done there gonna be a few folks sayin' "How did that ol' hillbilly get this one right?"' got me wondering, 'right about what?'

The statement was preceded by 'Oh, there are lots of folks who will step up and say the we *are* providing the medical care and the drugs thru various organizations,...'
and
'And lets also take a look on the Bush AIDS assistence program for Africa. First of all they are not spending the money or writing the checks that he said would be spent. Secondly, it is pushing abstainance at a time, if many of you folks are even half correct, is not a realistic centerpiece of it's educational programs for Africa.'

So Bush isn't providing enough assistance to stop an epidemic you don't think exists? Maybe he agrees with you. I can't tell, because you seem to change direction faster and more often than a squirrel in the middle of a 6-lane highway.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: rhoda horse
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 09:55 AM

So Oaklet, Is everyone who disagrees with your view of the world a troll?

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 09:31 AM

Ahhhhh, thanks fir the assist there, Ellenpolly. Yeah, I mighta got one to many gol-danged's in there and throwed everybody off. I don't know. But you stated what I was tryin' to say purdy danged good with a whole lot less o' that bombastic stuff that harpy said Iz afflicterate with...

An' thankee fir them kind words although if you had to walk around fir a day wid my brain you might reconsider that deep thinkin' stuff, 'er thinkin' in general. See, up here in these mountains they got laws 'gainst thinkin'... They catch you doing it an' yer gonna have to explainerate to the majestrate...

"You been thinkin', boy?"

"Well, yes sir but I ain't thunk..."

And yo, white boy... opps, nice boy. Yo mama never told you not to have swx with them green apes? Where yo live, anyway, where folks don't know when an ape is ripe for love? Green'll get you a 45 minute to an hour's wait in the doctors office every time. And that's the easy part. It's them two big shots, one in each cheek, that ain't no fun at all. Now get away from them green apes, youngin. Ya hear?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Oaklet
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 09:30 AM

Psst, Moo. I think it's a troll. Click on the name and check out the previous 17 messages from Rhoda and you'll read facts, shouted about the world as it obviously appears to Rhoda Horse.

Nice to hear from you. How are you doing, anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: rhoda horse
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 09:05 AM

My view may be simplistic, but you know it is also accurate. This disease has indeed spread to unfortunate heterosexuals,but the root cause of the disease was started by the disgusting unnatural practices of homosexual men.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: mooman
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 08:50 AM

RH

Although a major means of transmission, infection through male homosexual intercourse is not the only route of transmission. What about unprotected heterosexual transmission, contamination of early polio vaccines, contaminated blood transfusions and factor VIII taken by haemophiliacs, contaminated needles used by drug abusers, needlestick injuries amongst healthcare workers, reuse of syringes and needles in the third world, etc., etc.

I thought we were a decade past this simplistic, and prejudiced, view.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: rhoda horse
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 08:38 AM

Nice boy has a point. If homosexual men did not stick their penis's up each others bottoms, this problem would not exist, and you know it!

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: mooman
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 07:12 AM

Sorry folks! I just did a very long post on this and lost the lot somewhere in cyberspace. I'll try and reconstruct it from memory later.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 04:49 AM

Whoops! "Nice boy" not "white boy". Hmmm kind of a freudian slippage there..

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 04:15 AM

I really hate to have to post right after "white boy" but maybe it will take away some of the bad taste...

I just had to come back here, especially after reading the thread for which Bobert was first attacked and then reading this thread.

You guys! Is it so hard to see that what Bobert is saying is not all that different from what most of you are saying?

I know by now not to be fooled by his "aw shuks, ahm jest an ole hillbilly" camouflage. Truth is that he is a deep thinking and feeling individual, and what he theorizes here is not to be taken lightly.

We would be pretty naive to believe that the issue of AIDs, especially in Africa, is clear cut. By now it should be pretty obvious that there are a lot of agendas going on out there, both politically and medically.

At NO time did Bobert say there wasn't a huge problem with AIDs. All he is implying (if I've followed this correctly) is that there is a good chance that some cases have been misdiagnosed, and that it is a lot easier to deal with such a devastating state of affairs as exists in Africa by trying to blanket it over with only ONE disease.

Of course this is a social and cultural issue, as well as a political and medical one. That's the point. There are so many fronts on which this has to be fought and won, and to dismiss the very possible chance that there are people in the wings on every continent who are more concerned with what THEY want out of all this, than what the African nations need, would be naive indeed.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: GUEST,Nice Boy
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 01:48 AM

Everybody knows that Puffs invented aids - first in africa shagging green monkeys then spread it to white queers then it passed to normal people via bi-sexual perverts.

Any other explanation is only ducking the issue i.e. puff=pervert.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 12:36 AM

What kinda plant? Chrysanthemum?(I only said that to show I learned how to spell it--from Steinbeck's story, no less.)

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 11:32 PM

Harpgirl:

Aha!! You're actually here to do character studies, huh? A little post-grad data collection? Slumming among the Trpbriand Islanders? Sniffing around the Indigenous Haunts to see what makes the primitives tick?? Sketching the funny hats??? Busted, momma!!

Huh!! I gotcher number, Doctah!! Nobody tell harpgirl the chords you REALLY use, ya hear???    She's a plant!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: harpgirl
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 11:27 PM

Bobert isn't nasty, just bombastic!

Anyway, if I had my choice of spending my last days on a desert island with another social worker or Ted Kascinsky, I'd have to pick the crazy and some would say evil, math nerd! I've always wanted to get to know him to find out what made him tick! Social workers are a dime a dozen...it's those "outliers" like Bobert (or his Bobert personality anyway) that I find fascinating!

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 11:24 PM

Great drift, Augie... Sound like a real cool Bob to have effected so many people in a positive manner that such a cross sectional group gathers to play music and remember Bob... There's nuthin better than the grey hairs and the kids mixin' it up musically... I play blues sometimes at a local coffe shop where the kids hang. They call me Phishman 'cause I like Phish and go to their concerts and I got names fir them after their groups, like Tool-boy (tool), Spreadster (Widespread Panic), etc... Be nice to have them youngins have a Bobert Day if I were to die of a heart attack tomorrow... sniff...

Now back to AIDS... Theories... etc...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: GUEST,Augie
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 11:13 PM

You win the nasty contest Bobert-hands down.

I wasn't just blowin smoke about social workers. Some of the best times in my life (well, with a guitar on my lap anyway) were spent picking with a local social worker-also named Bob.He worked with at-risk teens and I think one of the best tools in his work was music.Bob passed unexpectedly 3 or 4 yrs ago at 49 from a heart attack. Each year they still hold a memorial concert/fundraiser in Bob's honor with the most bizarre set of performers, all of whom show up JUST because of Bob.You get the best of our local old rockers and folkies (which leaves me out for sure) covering "our music"along with teens and 20somethings who are still in or who had been in Bob's programs, doing original material. One minute you've got grey haired fat guys doing the Eagles acousticly, the next minute you've got pierced, tatooed, spikey green haired dudes doing original music & sometimes sharing instuments with the old farts.I couldn't generate such great,cross-cultural,cross-generational Karma in 50 lifetimes.Sorry about the thread drift.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: harpgirl
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 10:55 PM

Here's a reference to my survery research, BTW:http://www.mun.ca/sweaids/doc3part6.html

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 10:19 PM

Danged, Augie, I thought it was my bad knee actin' up... Well, I ain't no stranger to shakey ground...

Ahhhh, as fir feeling that yer degree ain't worth as much as a social workers? Next time I got a tooth ache I ain't callin' no social worker...

I will say that social work may sound glorious to some but it ain't. Most of the case load I worked with came directly from Central State Hospital in Petersburg, Va. Most of these folks had been in and out of mental hospitals. Most, no matter what I could do for them, would end up back in mental hospitals. Then came the Reagan administration and the massive cuts in Title XX funds that were used to purchase services, such as adult day care, companion serices, mental health serives, transporation, etc. and all Hell broke loose. That was the beginning of America's homelessness epidemic. Social workers were scrubbing floors and cooking meals and chenging dressings and taking blankets out to folks at night in the dead of winter... Yeah, it wasn't too glamourous at all.

One day I got a call from rooming house I had one of my "clients" in and the landlord was screaming at me that my client had gone into the shared bathroom and decorated the ceilings and walls with his own ith feceses (poop) and, in order to keep that rooming house (which I needed to keep) I had to get the guy out and clean up the mess... Didn't get home until well past midnight that night after getting a Green Warrent when the guy threatened to kill me, getting it served and cleaning all that crap outta that bathroom... No glamour there...

I'm sure that dentistry has its nasty parts but...

Awww, nevermind...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: GUEST,Augie
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 10:01 PM

Hey Guest
I have a MS in Molecular Biology and a doctorate in dental surgery and after half a century on this earth I know people like me haven't done half as much to make OUR world a better place than most of the social workers that I know. Honorable, "academic" degree my ass. There's surely nothing very honorable about going to college and winding up with opinions as foolish as yours.

Bobert-love your willingness to think outside the box but I fear your on shakey ground this time.
All the Best
ATH

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 09:30 PM

Yes, Amergin, the first talked-about cases I am aware of were some fellows in San Francisco who died from a terrible pneumatic disorder. Now, death takes about ten years, sometimes even longer. That aside, I don't know what you're bitchin' about. Say it clearly, in small words. OK?

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 09:02 PM

Concievable, A-gin, but with so many other illnesses creating false positives for HIV prevalent in Africa, conceivable is about as far as I'll go. And that's only for some folks...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Amergin
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 08:55 PM

Brucie, I did read what you said, and I do not believe I am the one with his head up his arse. BTW, the firt known cases of AIDS did not take anywhere near ten years, in many many cases it barely took 10 months, if that.

bobert, does it not seem conceivable that many of those people with TB and other lovely diseases may not also be infected with HIV?

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 08:40 PM

One of these interesting problems: the US has sent hundreds of thousands of tons of food aid to Africa, which are most likely crops purchased by the government as part of the price control process. Yet many countries won't accept it, even though it is the same thing we (or at least most of us) eat every day. The reason? It comes from genetically modified seed. I've seen at least one article that says the reason that they have refused it is because they then won't be able to certify their own food exports to Europe as GM-free.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 07:59 PM

Fair enough, Jeri. So seein' as there isn't any particular world movement to provide drugs and/or treatment for health related problems in Africa, why not provide food and water and see what happens...

Oh, there are lots of folks who will step up and say the we *are* providing the medical care and the drugs thru various organizations, the CDC and the World Health Organization but are we really making the kind of effort that has any chance of sucess? Well, not really. I mean if we are willing to let upwards of a million folks starve ijn Sudan this summer then you can bet those folks certainly have fallen thru the WHO net as well...

And lets also take a look on the Bush AIDS assistence program for Africa. First of all they are not spending the money or writing the checks that he said would be spent. Secondly, it is pushing abstainance at a time, if many of you folks are even half correct, is not a realistic centerpiece of it's educational programs for Africa.

But I'm still suggesting strongly that when this is all said and done there gonna be a few folks sayin' "How did that ol' hillbilly get this one right?" I think the research is badly flawed in favor of a tidy story. Heck, the jury ain't even out on this one yet but should be getting the case somewhere down the road and then I'll resurrect this thread and a local recipe fir crow pie... That's my story and until the jury gets the case and comes back, Iz stickin' to it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: harpgirl
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 07:52 PM

There's real irony in the potential fact that the Arabic Muslims may be the last population to survive on earth because of their taboos about male and female contact when AIDS has killed off everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: harpgirl
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 07:44 PM

I recalled that I was looking at the CIA World Fact Book (call me crazy; the CIA has up to date knowledge????)last week.

Anywho, India is fast approaching Africa in death rates and persons living with AIDS. India has poverty, famine, pestilence, and the oppression of women just like Africa. Primarily heterosexually transmitted as well.   http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2157.html

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 07:01 PM

Bobert, it's you who are playing Boss Hog's card here. We are NOT talking the AMA, we're talking WHO and the CDC, and MSF, and if you choose to think all those people are lying simply because what they say doesn't fit in with your politics, go on.

There are AIDS epidemics in more places than Africa. It's easier to throw food at people in Africa than provide competent medical personnel, and it really interferes with the profits of large drug companies to make medicines affordable. Providing education to people about AIDS costs money, condoms cost money. Teaching people how to eat isn't required. Treating a disease costs more than feeding people.

Let's talk about how the situation got so bad in the first place. People don't generally give a crap about a serious problem in poor countries that have nothing WE want, except maybe a few compassionate souls. It gets ignored, or labeled 'famine' and it just grows until it gets downright embarrassing. And then, somebody comes along and says, in effect "Nah, we don't have to send 'em nurses, doctors, medicine, educators, lab techs and all that stuff, we don't have to pay for it all, and we don't have to feel bad about taking it seriously a bit earlier, we don't have to figure out what went wrong or who should have acted. Them poor people jes' need some FOOD."

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 06:34 PM

"those millions of people afflicted in Africa", Amergin, may not be afflicted with AIDS... I don't mean to sound flip here but, what if the reason they were deing was because of TB, malaria or other diseases which are compounded by starvation and lack of clean water which can produce a false positive for AIDS?

Have you completely ruled out this scenerio because of the analysis by Western "medical" community's near-sightedness? Sure, this has been the *only* story but it may very well not be the correct story since so many other diseases can effect these tests.

Yeah, everyone seems real concerned about AIDS and they should be, I'd like to see at least as much attention paid to the human suffering for which we are 100% sure how to cure: food, clean water for starters...

I don't mean to minimalize the devestation of having or knwing someone with AIDS as I have now lost two good friends to the disease but I'm getting just a tad tired, to be repeating myself, of folks who refuse to even consider that AIDS isn't quite the boogieman its been made out to be in the tagedy in Africa... Oh sure, it makes for a convient story. Nice and tidy but it might be flawed and if so then maybe the world needs to rethink its strategy...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 06:00 PM

Amergin,

Read what I said earlier before you stick your head further up your arse.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: GUEST,harpy
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 05:54 PM

ah heck, Loopie Rocks...I'm not under any false illusions about my intelligence. I know I'm not brilliant. But the social work PhD IS a vigorous academic degree even though it is not a "hard" science. Even the PhD program at Florida State doesn't take dummies. I'm just about the only one in my cohort who isn't either a dean, a full professor with ten books, or a program director of a doctoral program. My career has disappointed my committee, but it has satisfied me.

But, I'm certainly not your average social worker. I'm a Babe in Total Control of Herself. You should know that about me by now...love, harpy

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Amergin
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 05:53 PM

Uh, Brucie, it didn't "just magically" appear in 1984...it was around alot longer than that...the first diagnosed cases were in Europe in the 70's(before they knew it was aids), where many health workers and rich Africans were returning infected with this strange disease...Now considering that diseases like AIDS and Ebola surfaced in areas like the Congo where there is lots of clear cutting...it is not inconceivable that new viruses (well HIV is a retrovirus) would be unsurfaced along with new animals and plants, and to suggest otherwise is pure ignorance and hindering all efforts to educate and keep people alive. Also to suggest that those millions of people afflicted in AFrica and elsewhere are really afflicted with starvation is just as ignorant and hindering. In fact it is truly offensive.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 05:40 PM

Not too fast, Act Up... There do seem to be a few other folk here who aren't completely sold by the Boss Hog/AMA song and dance routine an' I suspect as this thread continues there will be others so don't be to quick to carve out "Victory Circle" all fir yerseff...

Just remember what Einstein said about solving problems. They can't be solved with the "same consciencousness that created them", 'er somethin' real close to that. No, he we're no hillbilly but in that observation there is a nugget of thruth on how best to intervene on the human tagedy in Africa and it may very well not be in looking at it as a behavioral problem of those dieing but a geo-political one that goes beyond abstainence and blame...

Now if you wanta gloat, Act up, have at it? The fat lady ain't sung on this one yet...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 05:37 PM

I have found it difficult to believe that AIDS just magically appeared in 1984 (?). Always seemed to me like a lab experiment gone wrong. I think it was Clancy in one of his novels who said that AIDS does in ten years what ebola does in ten days. Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: GUEST,Act Up!
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 05:13 PM

When what you believe is determined by which 'side' you're on, truth doesn't stand a chance.

The truth never stood a chance with Bobert.

Bobert's hillbilly act was kind of funny the first three or four hundred times he used it. But, it's worn very thin the last couple of years.

On this issue in particular, the thinking of the Boberts of this world is downright dangerous. At least its somewhat heartening to see that he's a choir of one on this issue.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 04:57 PM

"Well, as fir attacking someone who has the courage to stand up to the AMA, and Western African?AIDS PR crap, I would expect the same ol' cast of characters who are generally first to stand up and sing the company song..."

It's frustrating for me, and really hinders attempts to find the 'truth' in anything, when people take facts and spin them to weave their own 'company song', whichever company it is. It bugs me when people are too willing to believe a certain point of view just because the particular spin suits their politics.

Politics shouldn't be the most important factor in this, it really shouldn't be a factor at all. Saying the World Health Organization, Doctors Without Borders, and everyone involved in trying to treat those with AIDS and prevent future infections are lying or trying to provided un-needed help, just doesn't make any sense. When what you believe is determined by which 'side' you're on, truth doesn't stand a chance.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 04:34 PM

Ouch, GUEST!

Well, gol dangit, since when were math and physics the only honorable stuff to learn? Shoot, everybody has to get about the same crap the first couple of years 'er so... Don't matter if ya want to help people 'er blow 'um up...

2 English, 2 lits, 2 psychs, 2 maths, 2 sciences, 2 poli-scis, maybe a couple economics, etc... By the time ya get done with the basics yer lookin' at about 60 'er 70 credit hours behind ya... Then you get a few tough 300 level course in yer major and the 400 course, should you get that far you can cruise thru...

But I'll tell ya what, if I gotta spend the rest o' my life on a desert island wid either a math major or a social work major, I'll take the latter, thank you...

And so would the Wes Ginny Slide Rule..

But a big ol' pie-r-squared to ya anyway...

Yo, mary garvey... Abstainence is not reasonable or realistic solution no matter how much you happen to believe in it. This is the real world. With that said I don't believe you are considering what a lot of folks allready are beginning to talk about: the "so called" AIDS epedemic in Africa may very well not be that at all but the effects of a lot of folks starving to death and without fresh water to drink. Can you at least consider that maybe we are not being told the truth?
Like Ellenpoly pointed out above. There are alot of other diseases which will produce positives for AIDS that are prevalent in Africa. TB being one biggie... But you might want to look back over that list and think how many of these conditions might be related to... or worsened to a lack of food and water and adequate housing and bad medical care, etc...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 04:26 PM

GUEST: That statement came from someone with a Master's in BS.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 04:11 PM

Harpy, sweetie, don't confuse a degree in social work with an academic degree. An academic degree (mathematics, physics for example) are honorable degrees.

Soial work is a bullshit degree obtainable with no academic background.

Subject: RE: BS: What causes AIDS?
From: mg
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 03:56 PM

oh indeed talking about the need for restraints on sexual behavior is absolutely part of the solution. And of course AIDS will most likely ravage a body faster with bad nutrition, and if the farmers have AIDS, who will grow the food? Especially with the other health issues they have, such as malaria, infectious diseases, parasites etc. And I think that this all can be linked to the "why do they hate us" question from traditional Moslem societies...perhaps they do not hate us but fear what is in store once the cultural restraints are off. And there are other treats in store for us...drug resistant syphilis is spreading. And count on other diseases to spring up unanounced...unprotected sex with multiple partners is an absolute recipe for disease. This is not morality, it is biology. Apply your own morals here or there or whatever but don't shoot the messenger. mg