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BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ????
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: John P Date: 05 Mar 09 - 12:40 PM Ok, can we get past the generalizations? No group as amorphous as any religion is all one way or another. There are tolerant and intolerant Christians, members of other religions, and those with no religion. There are good and bad Christians, members of other religions, and those with no religion. There are folks who do and don't do good works who are Christians, members of other religions, and those with no religion. The only real discussion has to focus on each individual situation. Is this person good, bad, or some of both? Is this specific action good, bad, or some of both? Please stop boring me with the bloody history of religion. Please stop boring me with broad statements that don't actually say anything useful. Please stop asking for examples of this or that. There are, of course, plentiful examples of actions of every shade from black through gray to white. How not? I'm seeing a lot of folks here arguing in a knee-jerk way: Christianity Good! Christianity Bad! BORING! Stick to the topic, in this case the poor nurse who doesn't have enough sense to know when to keep her yapper zipped. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Aggie Nostic Date: 05 Mar 09 - 11:12 AM "So can you give us an example of Christian intolerance or not?" Ok, hmmm where shall we start, oh I know... http://www.icwseminary.org/evil_abomination.htm next.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Bill D Date: 05 Mar 09 - 10:30 AM Can't resist this: Japan's "Deep, Serious Thirst for God" Shinto & Buddhism just aren't 'satisfying'... we need to give them Jesus. *sigh* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Bill D Date: 05 Mar 09 - 10:21 AM Ummm...Keith A... "That's OK. They don't do that." What planet have you been living on? Or are you just saying they are more careful how they express it these days? Many denominations most certainly DO have foreign missionary outreach: Google sees all first on the list You can read for days by following links. Here's one complaining that not enough attention is given to missions right here: "American churches give tens of thousands of dollars every year to mission projects in every continent except North America. Church members will travel thousands of miles to Quito, Ecuador, to see Radio Station HCJB that they have been helping to support, but they feel no obligation to support WMBI in Chicago. The only difference is that one represents foreign missions and the other home missions, and foreign missions usually win out. OF COURSE many of them also do some 'good works' in the process, but the major focus for many always was "spreading the gospel". In the 1860s thru the 1940s, it was not even too thinly disguised as "charity". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ As to justifying wars & other violence, you gave a couple of the best examples. I heard the argument 40 years ago that 'it wasn't really about religion'. That is just a rationalization....a sincere one, perhaps....but many IN those conflicts don't bother to do the rationalization. All over the world, even where it is not the official position of a religious group to defeat and denigrate another group, many members think exactly that way. Look at the conflicts in India/Pakistan/Bangladesh among religions & sects. Right here...5 minutes drive from me, the Mormons (LDS) had to "cleanse" their entire church a few years ago when some unbelievers managed to get access to 'forbidden areas'. Is this less disturbing because the LDS didn't seek to do violence to the trespassers? I guess so...but... Sorry, Keith A., but the very tenets of many (notice, I did NOT say all) religions and sects demand that followers assume that 'others' are following the 'wrong' path. The only variation is in how ummmm.... stridently...they express their opinions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Mar 09 - 09:40 AM ( In my Save The Children post I pasted from their site and "we are" means "they are". I did not mean to include myself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Mar 09 - 07:51 AM So can you give us an example of Christian intolerance or not? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Jack Blandiver Date: 05 Mar 09 - 06:58 AM Christians are the most tolerant of people You say that as if simply by becoming a Christian one is somehow transfigured into a better person than they were hitherto. I wonder, to what extent is this superiority supported by Christian teaching & expectation? Or is that Christianity attracts a better class of person anyway? God knows, you certainly see enough of them shouting about it on the streets, and wasn't even Bob Dylan himself once - ahem - Saved? People are people regardless of their professed belief, which makes the so-called tolerance of Christians all the more bogus not least because of the vile & bloody history of their faith and their conviction that the rest of us miserable sinners are going to hell anyway. The case which inspired this thread is but one example of this, whereby a Christian felt that what was somehow true for her must, therefore, be true for everyone else. This, of course, is the heart & soul of Christian Theology and has justified the massacre and oppression of millions in the name of its universal mission of Truth. The extremes of religious persecution notwithstanding, however, the whole thing was summed up perfectly by a film I once saw in which a community of once proud shamanic Inuits were, as a consequence of their exposure to Christian Missionaries, reduced to alcoholic idiots dancing to the fecking Birdy Song. Praise the Lord! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Riginslinger Date: 05 Mar 09 - 06:56 AM Of course, they're all fundamentalists at heart, so... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Mar 09 - 05:55 AM SS, you finished, "cultural and spiritual diversity which is most certainly not respected by Christians on any level whatsoever, historically or otherwise" Can you justify that? I think that, apart from fundamentalists, Christians are the most tolerant of people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Jack Blandiver Date: 05 Mar 09 - 05:19 AM I'm sorry Mr. "Beard" felt it necessary to change his handle--but note with interest that he still, it seems, does not actually believe in what he says enough to use his own name. How many Mudcatters are dull enough to use their own names? Part of the fun is an imaginative handle, which it has been Mudcat policy to encourage. When I first started posting here I did so using the name I perform under - Sedayne, itself derived from an anagram of my given name - but eventually chose an actual anagram - Insane Beard - until a particularly significant encounter earlier in in the week with a Sinister Supporter in Chester Cathedral with which I'd long been familiar in reproduction. I like both the alliteration and the implication of archaic religiosity, of which I am a keen enthusiast, opposing as I do the popular notion that such carvings are somehow pagan (see the blurb attending the reproduction link). But whilst my interests in the Culture and Theology of Pre-Reformation Roman Catholicism are partly about seeking to uncover a continuity of Dualist / Gnostic philosophical thinking that resonates between the teachings of Jesus Christ and the writings of Karl Marx, I see such things entirely in terms of Human Materialism however so couched in their original context. So, as for not believing enough in what I say, I'd say it was more a matter of Gnosis than simple belief, which can only ever be a process of discovery and revelation. On one thing I remain certain though - and that is the right of the human individual to cultural and spiritual diversity which is most certainly not respected by Christians on any level whatsoever, historically or otherwise. Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Mar 09 - 03:38 AM Save The Children in Sudan. We're protecting 45,239 children from violence and abuse We're educating 15,948 displaced children We're reducing malnutrition for 1,260 children under five |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Mar 09 - 03:33 AM Bill D The 2 examples of bad things christians do. "consider sending missionaries to primitive cultures and trying to sell them a new religion and a "savior" is not only bad, but borders on dangerous" That's OK. They don't do that. Justifying wars and ethnic cleansing? I can't think of any examples, although religion is often wrongly used to label different ethnic groups in ethnic conflicts, e.g. N Ireland, Yugoslavia. Which cases were you thinking of? (Oxfam in Sudan. They have been supplying food, water and sanitation to 600 000 refugees.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Ron Davies Date: 04 Mar 09 - 11:36 PM "...as illustrated already on this thread...." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Ron Davies Date: 04 Mar 09 - 11:32 PM And "unhealthy knowledge" about Hitler? That's cute. No question, ignorance is far preferable--about everything. That certainly seems to be the general approach for many Mudcat atheists--all except Amos and Bill D. Gee, it seems the poster concerned about "unhealthy knowledge" has some objection to facts which disagree with his comfortable assumptions. We actually have had a lot of that sort of concern in the US by quite a few people who didn't like you to question anything--they were called Bush voters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Ron Davies Date: 04 Mar 09 - 11:23 PM It should be obvious to all concerned that atheists have in fact caused far more deaths than Christians--and thus been far worse for the world. As I said, since you start with Hitler, Stalin and Mao--who were responsible for more deaths than anybody else in history --there is no way atheists can claim to be a positive force. Which Christians can, with credibility--as been illustrated already on this thread with evidence from Africa and New Orleans, among others. I'm sorry Mr. "Beard" felt it necessary to change his handle--but note with interest that he still, it seems, does not actually believe in what he says enough to use his own name. Nor of course does Janet. So I suppose he's in good company. And, by the way, if somebody still is under the delusion that Hitler was a Christian, after about age 7--the poster is still welcome to provide some actual evidence--though that does not seem to be the style of Mudcat atheists, for some reason. Keeping in mind that everything Hitler said in speeches was rather transparently self-serving, to say the least, and no proof of anything--- except his diabolical nature. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Mar 09 - 06:32 PM Wow!..You're on the ball, Jeri.....you caught that fast!!....I gave the room a little longer!...Now, if they could see all the rest of the fraud in Washington, you'd be phenomenal! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Mrrzy Date: 04 Mar 09 - 03:05 PM Hmmm. How do you do that accent again? voilà - alt 0224 [helpful clone] |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Mrrzy Date: 04 Mar 09 - 01:36 PM katlaughing, I live in Central Virginia, the buckle on the Bible Belt. It is TYPICAL, not stereotypical, of my neighbors or my children's school friends' parents, to think exactly like that. The unfortunate thing is that stereotypes are so often based on the typical, then twisted to make it look worse; here really the only twisting would be for them all to be Young Earth Creationists, instead of just most of them. Even the Quakers down here talk of God all the time instead of the Inner Light. Up Philly way, you did the right thing because it was the right thing to do, not because some other authority was telling you to. Of course there are also the educated, secularized yet-still believers, and the educated, nonbelievers, a-plenty, but they are mostly the University are the others are mostly Town. We are both, but my kids are growing up fluent in Townie (bilingual in a way, since they can do the I and the whom and, like, all that stuff)... Wesley S, I was responding to someone else who'd brought it up to bolster their side; thank you for proving my point that it's a silly argument either way, although mine is at least based on reality and not wishful thinking...not what the atheist Hitler would have done, but whether he was a Christian or secular. He and his regime were Christian, and overtly so, whether he was a disbeliever in private or no. I consider it bad for humanity that religions teach people to think of things that aren't real as real, and then use these creations, creatures, same idea, to get them to do things that benefit The Religion (very broadly speaking one could say The Church but it wouldn't be quite broad enough) as well as some particular poor folks who should already be being taken care of by their o-so-pious neighbors. Not to mention that using the idea of reward and punishment as coming only after death really makes people blow off the current life, which is the only one we actually experience. I was brought up to know right from wrong, and to realize that doing right was often not the easy way out of a situation, but that the point was to do the right thing on your way out, not to get out the most efficiently. There was, and is, no need to bring anything supernatural into it, rewards and punishments were right there and still are, and I need a third thing to round this out but hey, voilà. - voilà |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Bill D Date: 04 Mar 09 - 01:08 PM Since I need to be at Johns Hopkins often, and read their newspapers & public flyers...and since I am keenly aware of their attitudes and general style, I was mentally saying..."Uh-Oh!" as I read that purported 'release'. Thanks to Jeri for saving ME the trouble of debunking it. Now there are some fine ideas in it, and some of the practices could be good for some folks....but Johns Hopkins would never suggest or hint that these ideas represented 'cancer protection'. ......but way back up there,,,about 40 posts, I was asked a couple of questions and chided about my post. To Keith A...re: "...do give us some examples of bad works of Christianity in the world today." I suppose we might differ on what we considered 'bad'. *I* consider sending missionaries to primitive cultures and trying to sell them a new religion and a "savior" is not only bad, but borders on dangerous. (long explanation about 'why' omitted here...you can probably guess) Also, Christianity, (or rather, some Christians) as with a couple other religions, is using religious 'principles' to defend wars and 'ethnic cleansing' , justify alterations of history books, and obfuscate the lessons of science. These are cases of "place the dart, then draw the bullseye to suit your goal". I cannot even enumerate the myriad cases of personal violence and stupidity done "in the name of..."...but a couple of cults that resulted in dead followers come to mind...Jonestown, the "comet group". You can say "Oh, those were just crazy, sick 'people' who were perverting the message of Christianity,"...but the problem of bad logic, bad science, bad justification and bad intentions happens on a continuum, not in isolation. We read about the extreme cases, not the everyday nonsense that inhibits real learning and causes shame & confusion to many of the young, the uneducated and the easily intimidated in society. ..---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ummm...Ron...are you sure you have the concept of "Red Herring" right? This generally refers to a deliberate attempt to deceive or to mislead one's readers by changing the topic...etc. You may, if you wish, suggest that you don't agree with my examples, or dispute my logic...but I DO intend my comments to be relevant....if they confuse you..*grin*...just ask. I do want to correct the idea that I even suggested that comparing the amount of evil done by atheists of Christians was useful or relevant....the only point is that BOTH do it at times. As to "motivation"... what I said was "it is hard to pin down", meaning that *when* we identify a good deed...or a bad one, for that matter, we can usually only guess at the underlying (possibly emotional or psychological) 'motivation', but we can usually discern a superficial one...and that's what we have to work with. We must, up to a point, rely on what folks tell us their rationale is. I often have my doubts, as I suppose you do, but it's a guide. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Riginslinger Date: 04 Mar 09 - 10:57 AM Probably some one was praying for a new cancer cure and the mainstream media picked it up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Jack Blandiver Date: 04 Mar 09 - 10:54 AM I see those pesky Mudcat Mods have been at it again! Our guest nurse was simply showing a quite justified concern for the well-being of one of our contributors who not only displays a quite alarming tenancy to misanthropic speculation, but an unhealthy knowledge of the utterances of Adolf Hitler. Sinister Supporter (The Mudcatter formerly known as Insane Beard) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Jeri Date: 04 Mar 09 - 07:39 AM The 'cancer update' purportedly to be from Johns Hopkins that GfS repeated here is a fraud. See Snopes |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Mar 09 - 01:34 AM Jeez! Hitler was not a Christian..('by there fruits you shall know them'...and..'by this shall all men know who are my disciples, for the LOVE they have for one another').....and anyone who jumps on the nurse, for praying, in her thoughts, shouldn't criticize Hitler, you're already like him,..and a true devotee! Look at what you've become!! You want to control even peoples thoughts, when you can't understand her faith?????('don't criticize what you can't understand'--Dylan) ..So for the 'cause' of being a far left loon, which is merely politics, people can't pray, or think what they want, to whomever they want to, whenever they want to without your approval????? ...and you think YOU'RE the enlightened ones of hipness?????!!! Guess again |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Mar 09 - 12:26 AM AFTER YEARS OF TELLING PEOPLE CHEMOTHERAPY IS THE ONLY WAY TO TRY ('TRY' IS THE KEY WORD) AND ELIMINATE CANCER, JOHN HOPKINS IS FINALLY STARTING TO TELL YOU THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE WAY . Cancer Update from John Hopkins 1. Every person has cancer cells in the body. These cancer cells do not show up in the standard tests until they have multiplied to a few billion. When doctors tell cancer patients that there are no more cancer cells in their bodies after treatment, it just means the tests are unable to detect the cancer cells because they have not reached the detectable size. 2. Cancer cells occur between 6 to more than 10 times in a person's lifetime 3. When the person's immune system is strong the cancer cells will be destroyed and prevented from multiplying and forming tumors. 4. When a person has cancer it indicates the person has multiple nutritional deficiencies. These could be due to genetic, environmental, food and lifestyle factors. 5. To overcome the multiple nutritional deficiencies, changing diet and including supplements will strengthen the immune system. 6. Chemotherapy involves poisoning the rapidly-growing cancer cells and also destroys rapidly-growing healthy cells in the bone marrow, gastro-intestinal tract etc, and can cause organ damage, like liver, kidneys, heart, lungs etc. 7. Radiation while destroying cancer cells also burns, scars and damages healthy cells, tissues and organs. 8. Initial treatment with chemotherapy and radiation will often reduce tumor size. However prolonged use of chemotherapy and radiation do not result in more tumor destruction. 9 When the body has too much toxic burden from chemotherapy and radiation the immune system is either compromised or destroyed, hence the person can succumb to various kinds of infections and complications. 10. Chemotherapy and radiation can cause cancer cells to mutate and become resistant and difficult to destroy. Surgery can also cause cancer cells to spread to other sites. 11. An effective way to battle cancer is to starve the cancer cells by not feeding it with the foods it needs to multiply. CANCER CELLS FEED ON: a. Sugar is a cancer-feeder. By cutting off sugar it cuts off one important food supply to the cancer cells. Sugar substitutes like NutraSweet, Equal,Spoonful, etc are made with Aspartame and it is harmful. A better natural substitute would be Manuka honey or molasses but only in very small amounts. Table salt has a chemical added to make it white in color. Better alternative is Bragg's aminos or sea salt. b. Milk causes the body to produce mucus, especially in the gastro-intestinal tract. Cancer feeds on mucus. By cutting off milk and substituting with unsweetened soya milk cancer cells are being starved. c. Cancer cells thrive in an acid environment. A meat-based diet is acidic and it is best to eat fish, and a little chicken rather than beef or pork. Meat also contains livestock antibiotics, growth hormones and parasites, which are all harmful, especially to people with cancer. d. A diet made of 80% fresh vegetables and juice, whole grains,seeds, nuts and a little fruits help put the body into an alkaline environment. About 20% can be from cooked food including beans. Fresh vegetable juices provide live enzymes that are easily absorbed and reach down to cellular levels within 15 minutes to nourish and enhance growth of healthy cells. To obtain live enzymes for building healthy cells try and dr ink fresh vegetable juice (most vegetables including bean sprouts)and eat some raw vege tables 2 or 3 times a day. Enzymes are destroyed at temperatures of 104 degrees F (40 degre es C). e. Avoid coffee, tea, and chocolate, which have high caffeine.Green tea is a better alternative and has cancer-fighting properties. Water-best to drink purified water, or filtered, to avoid known toxins and heavy metals in tap water. Distilled water is acidic, avoid it. 12. Meat protein is difficult to digest and requires a lot of digestive enzymes. Undigested meat remaining in the intestines become putrified and leads to more toxic buildup. 13. Cancer cell walls have a tough protein covering. By refraining from or eating less meat it frees more enzymes to attack the protein walls of cancer cells and allows the body's killer cells to destroy the cancer cells. 14. Some supplements build up the immune system (IP6, Flor-ssence,Essiac, anti-oxidants, vitamins, minerals, EFAs etc.) to enable the body's own killer cells to destroy cancer cells. Other supplements like vitamin E are known to cause apotheosis, or programmed cell death, the body's normal method of disposing of damaged, unwanted, or unneeded cells. 15. Cancer is a disease of the mind, body, and spirit. A proactive and positive spirit will help the cancer warrior be a survivor. Anger, unforgiveness and bitterness put the body into a stressful and acidic environment. Learn to have a loving and forgiving spirit. Learn to relax and enjoy life. 16. Cancer cells cannot thrive in an oxygenated environment. Exercising daily, and deep breathing help to get more oxygen down to the cellular level. Oxygen therapy is another means employed to destroy cancer cells. CANCER UPDATE FROM JOHN HOPKINS HOSPITAL , U S - PLEASE READ 1. No plastic containers in micro. 2. No water bottles in freezer. 3. No plastic wrap in microwave. Johns Hopkins has recently sent this out in its newsletters. This information is being circulated at Walter Reed Army Medical Center as well. Dioxin chemicals causes cancer, especially breast cancer. Dioxins are highly poisonous to the cells of our bodies.Don't freeze your plastic bottles with water in them as this releases dioxins from the plastic. Recently, Dr. Edward Fujimoto, Wellness Program Manager at Castle Hospital , was on a TV program to explain this health hazard. He talked about dioxins and how bad they are for us.. He said that we should not be heating our food in the microwave using plastic containers. This especially applies to foods that contain fat. He said that the combination of fat, high heat, and plastics releases dioxin into the food and ultimately into the cells of the body. Instead, he recommends using glass, such as Corning Ware, Pyrex or ceramic containers for heating food. You get the same results, only without the dioxin. So such things as TV dinners, instant ramen and soups, etc., should be removed from the container and heated in something else. Paper isn't bad but you don't know what is in the paper. It's just safer to use tempered glass, Corning Ware, etc. He reminded us that a while ago some of the fast food restaurants moved away from the foam containers to paper. The dioxin problem is one of the reasons. Also, he pointed out that plastic wrap, such as Saran, is just as dangerous when placed over foods to be cooked in the microwave. As the food is nuked, the high heat causes poisonous toxins to actually melt out of the plastic wrap and drip into the food. Cover food with a paper towel instead. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Ron Davies Date: 04 Mar 09 - 12:23 AM Here are a few more Hitler gems, for your delight, from his table talk. 10 Oct 1941 "Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure". 14 Oct 1941 "The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death....When understanding of the universe has become widespread...Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity..." This last one has amazing similarity to the views of some current atheists. Good luck trying to explain that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Ron Davies Date: 03 Mar 09 - 11:58 PM " Hitler was a Christian, don't forget" Yes, I'm sure the poster doesn't want to forget this. Too bad it's totally false--after about age 7. In fact it's about the purest drivel we've seen yet on Mudcat. And don't bother with quotes from speeches. Tell us, pray, if you believe what a public figure says in public or what he says in private. Perhaps you also believe that he was primarily a kindly vegetarian gentleman who loved pets and children. Everything he said in public only confirms what anybody who can think should realize--Hitler used everything and everybody he could to his own advantage. Try a few quotes from his private conversations--when he said what he really thought--not what he thought he needed to say to, for instance, undermine the Center Party- (look it up)--which was a major concern for him in the early 30's. In contrast, try these--when he was among friends and sycophants--and had no need to dissemble. From Hitler's Secret Conversations-- night of 11-12 July 1941: "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew." 13 Dec 1941 "Christianity is an invention of sick brains...one could imagine nothing more senseless..." Are there no Mudcat atheists who can think aside from Bill D and Amos? Why does non-belief in God have to also mean non-belief in research or thinking? Sorry, Mudcat atheists: you lose again. Hitler was an atheist. Live with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: katlaughing Date: 03 Mar 09 - 11:54 PM Mrrzy, you are presenting a terrible stereotype of Christians in America. It is the vocal minority, the extremists whom you are talking about. There are many, many ethical and good Christians in the US, just as there are of any other persuasion. One good thing, now that President Obama has undone some of the shrub's idiocy, Planned Parenthood and others can now offer birth control advice, etc. in other countries, again and that includes preventive care against HIV, etc., i.e. condoms. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 03 Mar 09 - 06:16 PM Meezy, handing out condoms or preaching abstinence would be prophylactic advice. This is HOSPITAL CARE and TREATMENT of HIV SUFFERERS!! And it would be sorely missed if those good people all went home. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Riginslinger Date: 03 Mar 09 - 04:18 PM "Nurse Suspended for praying ????" By her thumbs, hopefully! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Wesley S Date: 03 Mar 09 - 02:01 PM Hitler was a Christian, don't forget! That's why he wanted to wipe out the jews! Had he been an atheist, we might have been better off! And if wishes had wings frogs wouldn't bump their butts. So if your new and improved Hitler had been an athiest how many people would he have killed then? I can't believe you're using this flight of fancy to prove your point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: John MacKenzie Date: 03 Mar 09 - 12:13 PM Atheism means not believing in A god. It is not solely those who don't believe in the legend of The Naz |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Mrrzy Date: 03 Mar 09 - 11:56 AM Um, yes, I did; here is a quote: yet there is often little cooperation between these organizations and mainstream public health programmes. In other words, they probably *aren't* doing what the (secular, mainstream) health programs would be doing, or there would be no need for such a complaint. They probably *are* preaching abstinence and *not* handing out condoms, or they couldn't very well call themselves Christian. At least, not if they're from the US. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 03 Mar 09 - 03:26 AM Mrzy, those christians in Lesotho and Zambia are not preaching anything. According to the UN report they are providing "HIV care and treatment services." You did not even read the brief extract I pasted! Twice! And those two countries are just examples. Christian volunteers are providing humanitarian services everywhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Mrrzy Date: 03 Mar 09 - 12:09 AM Are the Christians in Lesotho and Zimbabwe only preaching abstinence, or are they actually handing out condoms and teaching people to use then? Even the former could easily be more treatment than their governments are providing, yet I wouldn't call it a good thing! Hitler was a Christian, don't forget! That's why he wanted to wipe out the jews! Had he been an atheist, we might have been better off! And no, those three don't have the top billing in history, sorry. Not to mention that Stalin and Mao rarely killed people IN THE NAME OF atheism, did they? Compare them to the deaths in the name of the Christian = Moslem = Jewish god, and then what have you got? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Ron Davies Date: 02 Mar 09 - 11:04 PM If we want to debate on whether Christianity has been a net plus for the world over time, something tells me we could waste an amazing amount of time--and never reach an agreed conclusion. In the grand Mudcat tradition. That wasn't even my question. The question is whether Christianity and Christians are, not in the past but now, a net plus for the world. Since some atheists seem to yearn for a world without them. However if you're determined to go into history, we can examine the parallel question of whether atheism has been good for the world or not. And we don't even have to go back very far. With Hitler, Stalin, and Mao being responsible for more deaths than anybody else in history, that question is not hard to answer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:15 PM I posted links for these quotes on 27th. The study focused on Lesotho and Zambia, which had HIV prevalence rates of 23.2% and 17% respectively in 2005. It found that Christian hospitals and health centres are providing about 40% of HIV care and treatment services in Lesotho and almost a third of the HIV/AIDS treatment facilities in Zambia are run by FBOs. While popularly held beliefs--and characterizations by US government officials--proport that many churches/temples/synagogues/mosques/etc. and faith-based organizations give money internationally, studies and news reports found that the overwhelming majority of religious-based international aid is Christian. All do gooders are not christian but the Zambia and Lesotho UN report gives an indication of the extent to which poor countries rely on services provided by christian volunteers. Surely that would be missed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Jack Blandiver Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:03 PM This afternoon's Beyond Belief (BBC Radio 4 - UK) was interesting today. Listen again: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00htgzx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: John MacKenzie Date: 02 Mar 09 - 02:41 PM How many wars were started by atheists? BTW Ron D, you are turning jumping to conclusions, into an Olympic sport. ☺ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Mrrzy Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:40 AM The question isn't unanswerable, Monique, it's just difficult. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Monique Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:27 AM "The question is simple. Would the world today be better or worse without Chritianity. "The question is unanswearable. How should we know, we only have this one and only world and it does have Christianity. Everyone can just imagine it without and decide if it'd be better or worse according to his/her point of view... which solves nothing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Barry Finn Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:24 AM "Would the world today be better or worse without Chritianity"? Talk of the good of missionaries. The sinful whalers gave them more respect, didn't steal their land, plunder their resources nor force them into labor, but they are by maajority christians today. Like our first nation people they are today religious people but do not follow the religious beliefs of their ancestors but are christians. Who are better off for the coming of the Christians? Certinally the Christians brought the "savages" into the modern world even if at the point of a cross but are they better for it? The point is moot, they suffered like hell! Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: GUEST,Mrr Date: 02 Mar 09 - 10:15 AM What makes you think it's only the Christians doing work with the homeless, the poor and the sick etc? Bill Gates seems to be doing a whole lot, and he's an atheist. The world would be better without religions because to do good requires only compassion; to do evil and call it good requires religion. The bad things include preventing loving couples from marrying because they don't have different genitalia. Harrassing non-Christian military into nervous breakdowns and fragging atheist soldiers like Tillman (was that his name? I confuse him with Emmett Till). Flying airplanes into buildings and killing girls who want an education. Oh, right, that isn't the Christians, but boy, it's hard to tell the fundies apart, especially since they all worship the same invisible friend. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 Mar 09 - 09:43 AM But that is not fair Jacqui. Any state or organisation that has existed for centuries will have things in its past that are bad. The question is simple. Would the world today be better or worse without Chritianity. Are all the good works going on with the homeless, poor and sick in our cities and the third world outweighed by all the bad things Christians do today? And what are those bad things? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: jacqui.c Date: 02 Mar 09 - 09:27 AM I couldn't actually say that - that statement would need to be weighed against the damage done by so called Christians overtime. Read 'Things Fall Apart' by Chinua Achebe to get some idea of what has happened when Christians get involved with what they see as primitive cultures. Look at the persecution of the Jews, by Christians over many centuries. I have the same problem with any religion that tries to run roughshod over what they see as non-believers, but the Christians have had the worst press on that basis for a long time. Of course, there is the argument that these atrocities have been laid down by business and governmental interests, using religion as their excuse, but they are still carried out in the name of Christ, who, I'm sure from reading the Gospels, would not be happy with what is being done, even today, in his name. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Ron Davies Date: 02 Mar 09 - 08:53 AM Thanks, Jacqui, for the statement acknowledging that good works are done by Christians---but obviously not just by Christians. Does that mean that the world is better off with Christians and Christianity on it? That's the other part of the question. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: jacqui.c Date: 02 Mar 09 - 08:48 AM Yes, there are a lot of good works carried out by Christians. there are alo good works carried out by other religions. Conversely there has been and, still to some extent is, harm engendered by adherence to a religious belief that the holders believe should be foisted onto everyone else. Think about the harm done by the Inquisition and by the early Muslims who spread across North Africa, killing non-believers. That seems to be continuing in the Darfur region today. There are fundamentalists of most religions who give their own brand of faith a bad name. IMHO the religious rules for any religion are man-made, done to keep the flock in order. The basic tenets of a good life do not have to have a religious base. As a teenager I belonged to a church but left when I was told off by one of the Sunday School, at the age of 15, for not wanting to take part in the Church sports day. It was made quite clear that I had let them down. As an adult I found myself at odds with what was coming down from the pulpit during the sermon, but with no way to question the content. At a Pentecostalist meeting the pastor told us that anybody who was not of that particular faith would not go to Heaven - "not the Pope, or the Queen" - because they had not been saved. Those are the things that made me move away from organised religion and led me to work out my own system of belief. I worked with a guy who, on Ash Wednesday, made it a point to come round in the afternoon to every area in the office. Now this wasn't his usual behaviour, but the ash smear on his forehead was very obvious and that is what he wanted everyone to see. We basically ignored it. I have no problem with anyone who has a religious belief - I just don't want to be told that I should share it or made to feel less because I don't. Don't push your belief on me and I'll not push mine on you, even if mine has a more rational base. :0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Ron Davies Date: 02 Mar 09 - 08:24 AM "...when you give to the needy, let not your left hand...." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Ron Davies Date: 02 Mar 09 - 08:22 AM Megan, First we get " when you give to the needy, let not your left hand". Then we get an attack on Mudcat Christians on the basis that they have not said they personally have carried out charitable works. You can't have it both ways. You have contradicted yourself. I wonder if you noticed. It certainly seems that you are determined to attack all Christians--with no basis. Whereas those of us who defend Christians are clear that we are by no means attacking all atheists, nor are we claiming that only Christians carry out charity, much as you may want to misread the posts in question. Now where is that statement I requested admitting that the world is better off with Christians and Christianity? If it's too painful for you, that, as I said, is a rather clear indication of rabid anti-religion tendencies. But you're in good company on Mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 Mar 09 - 04:16 AM Megan, who on the thread could be described as " folk waviing "I'm a Christian of course" around as though it was some kind of magic flamin wand " ?? I see none. If you meant me and it is true, then I am very sorry. I am not a very good Christian at all and I would never knowingly express such a thing. Please give the worst example of it so I never make the mistake again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Nurse Suspended for praying ???? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:58 AM Sorry Megan I do not follow Your post sneered at those of us who spoke of knowing someone else, but never say "I have " That is the opposite of what you have now said. Please explain. |
