BS: US Health Care Reform

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 01:47 PM

If it works, fine and dandy. Go for it. But I still see this discussion as being, at best, merely peripheral to the health care reform issue--and what appears to be a deliberate diversion.

And Little Hawk: "Don, you just made another typo. It is "Kangen" water, not "Kangan" water."

I don't know if one could legitimately call that a "typo" or not. I cut the word from a web site that was trying to sell the thing and pasted it into my post. If it is a misspelling, then they'd better get their act together!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 01:16 PM

That is an important point, Carol. I have been doing some reading on the Net about it. It seems that there are a fair number of manufacturers making similar water ionization machines, but the Kangen Water ones are much more expensive than most of the others (if I can go by what I'm reading) and this appears to be because Kangen is an MLM operation (multi-level marketing), so there ends up being a big markup on the sale price. It looks like the Kangen machines are about twice as expensive as most of the others, and they're probably not significantly better....but they get a lot more public promotion than the others do.

Other than than, virtually everyone who's tried them says that they have experienced many good health results from them. The main argument seems to be about their comparative price levels, not their effectiveness.

However, I'm just beginning to look into it. I have some people in Barrie who should be able to give me plenty of accurate information about these devices, so I'll see what they have to say.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 11:55 AM

I think the question that would need to be asked is how many of the people who report beneficial results from drinking kangen water do not themselves benefit financially from the sale of kangen water or kangen water machines.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 05:44 AM

Little Hawk,
Once more you bring in reason! Thank you!
The reason I brought up the Kangen water machine was, as you said, those who have tried it, rave about it.
As said before, I don't sell them, nor have any interest, financially with them, but those who are involved claim that it has changed their lives, and health.
Regards, GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 01:35 AM

Don, you just made another typo. It is "Kangen" water, not "Kangan" water.

Not that it matters much, but I thought I'd mention it so you'd know in future how to spell it. I don't think it indicates any mental instability on your part. ;-)

Interestingly enough, I went to Toronto today on business, got that taken care of, then dropped by my favorite hobby shop to see what new stuff might be in (model kits, that is).

To my great surprise what was the first thing I see as I park the car? Two doors down from my hobby shop, which I've been patronizing for years, is a large storefront with a sign about Kangen Water! Gad! Talk about synchronicity. Un-frikkin'-believable. I only first heard about the stuff yesterday....I spent some time reading about it on the Internet yesterday....and today I find a whole store devoted to it and some other health-related stuff right next to my favorite hobby shop.

Do I believe in fortunate synchronicites? Yeah....I've seen them happen before quite a few times. Anyway, I went in to that place and spent a couple of very interesting hours talking to a young Chinese man and a young Chinese woman all about those machines you allude to so suspiciously, and seeing demonstrations of the Ph levels of common varieties of commercially bottled water, ionized water from the machine, etc. Most interesting, to be sure.

I intend to investigate it further.

I also got a free 40-minute massage by a type of oriental massage table they have there. It uses heat and a set of jade rollers that work up and down the entire spine while you lie there and they massage every part along the five meridians (see acupuncture meridians) that run up the back. In short, there is a central meridian going up the spine, there are two more close to the spine running parallel on either side, and two more running parallel to those, but farther out from the spine. These same long meridians can be worked on by a masseuse or a chiropractor. The mechanized table massages all these meridians with heat and pressure while you lie there, according to a computerized program, and the whole thing takes 40 minutes.

They have about 15 of the tables in the store, and anyone can walk in off the street and get a free massage from the table. One guy in the neighborhood came in every day for nearly a year, because it was helping him so much.

Long story short....I got my 40 minute massage and felt absolutely great afterward.

Why do they offer free massages? So people can find out how good this massage table is, in which case they may or may not decide to buy one. If they don't buy one, the store has lost nothing, and the person has gained a great massage...or a whole series of them, because you can come back every day if you want to, for as long as you want to.

I will be doing a good deal more reading on the Kangen water device and how it works. The demonstrations with various types of water were quite interesting. You should have been there. ;-)

The only way anyone can possibly find out about this stuff is...try it. Or know someone else who has tried it and whose opinion and judgement you trust.

Other than that, it's all just a big blather of opinion (most of it based on some sort of prior prejudice that the opinionator has), and you know that everyone in this world has:

2 armpits
2 knees
2 eyes
1 asshole
and a whole bunch of opinions!

I take people's opinions with a grain of salt unless I know them very, very well indeed...but the one thing that really impresses me is my own direct experience, because then...I know. I have yet to reach any particular conclusion about the Kangen Water. I am in the process of investigating it. My conclusion about the oriental massage table is...it's darned good. I would go for that massage every single day if I lived closer to that store (but it's in Toronto, and I'm an hour and a half north of Toronto).

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 12:31 AM

Dr. Hiromi Shinya developed an accessory to the colonoscope which allowed the surgical removal of any polyps that were discovered during a colonoscopy. He did not "invent" the colonoscope.

By the way, GfS, your confusion of "colostomy" and "colonoscopy" was a bit more than a mere typo. It indicated to me that you are trying to use words that you don't really understand (early on, my mother told me that wasn't a good idea). And it wasn't that long ago that when I made a geniune typo (slip if the fingers), you danced around in glee and tried to claim that it proved I was mentally incompetent.

The Kangan Water device, developed by Dr. Hiromi Shinya, alters the acid/alkaline balance of water through ionization. Therefore, it is a water ionizer. I believe that it also makes some use of electrolysis (the process by which water is separated into its component gases, hydrogen and oxygen), but the information on the internet about how the device works is sufficiently vague to preclude any kind of scientific analysis.

Some pretty far-fetched health claims are made for this device. Far-fetched enough to make any reasonable person highly skeptical of the claims made for it.

There may be something to this gadget. But—it has all the earmarks of the kind of potions and gadgets that my sister (whom, as I mentioned, worked for a time in a health food store) kept running into, and which were being hawked as cure-alls for everything from toenail fungus to heart disease.

Yes, there is a brief article about Dr. Hiromi Shinya in Wikipedia.   But here's a news flash, GfS:

Wikipedia is not a medical journal!

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I can't accept an article in Wikipedia as being as authoritative as peer-review articles in scientific or medical journals.

And the repetitive insults and abuse you keep throwing in my direction are a dead giveaway that you know you are on very shaky ground, and you are doing your damnedest to try to carry off the bluff.

Go take your meds.

Don Firth

P. S. By the way, GfS, doctors generally don't require a blood test to check a person's PH balance. That's done simply by having the patient pee on a piece of litmus paper. The color of the wet paper indicates the acid/alkaline balance.

Have you had a physical lately? You seem to be a bit fuzzy about how doctors work. Maybe it's time.

P. P. S. I suppose this little exchange of pleasantries is related to the health care reform debate, but Carol's most recent post brings it right back to what this thread is all about. There are people ~ many people ~ in this country who are in need of medical attention. And can't get it!

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 11:36 PM

Speaking of colonoscopies, there are a lot of people in the US who need colonoscopies right now but can't get them because they don't have any health insurance.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 10:38 PM

Correction: I wrote,"It is don't with a blood test."

Should read: "It is DONE with a blood test."

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 10:35 PM

Don:(the town Jester)Dr. Hiromi Shinya, the surgeon you cited as "inventing the colostomy [sic] procedure," and whom you seem to put so much store by has written a popular book, The Enzyme Factor, but I find nothing about him in medical journals. He has also developed a "miracle water" device (a water inonizer). And all of this, according to you, renders health care reform in this country unnecessary. Just buy some litmus paper and check your PH from time to time, and you'll never be sick

First: you make a big deal out of my typo, which I since corrected, and copped to, as soon as it was brought to my attention.

Second: You inserted '(a water ionizer)'..which was NOT IN MY TEXT, and then go on to make a big stink of it...AND YOU INSERTED IT!!! THEN ARGUE THAT POINT?!?!?

Third. Checking your PH balance with litmus paper is not how to do it, and will not raise your alkalinity. It is don't with a blood test.

Fourth: You can't find Dr. Hiromi Shinya in a medical journal?? Here, try this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiromi_Shinya

AND THAT'S JUST WITHIN YOU FIRST PARAGRAPH!!!!!

I'm not wasting anymore time with this, or you!!!

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 07:40 PM

I seriously doubt that Dr. Hiromi Shinya "invented" the colonoscopy, as GfS said.

By the way, for those who don't know the difference between a colostomy and a colonoscopy:   If a person's normal bowel function is impaired (by, say, cancer of the rectum), a surgeon may "reroute" the patient's colon to a surgically created orifice in the side of the abdomen. One must then wear a "colostomy bag" fastened over the orifice with adhesive, into which fecal matter is deposited. Not pleasant, but there are a lot of people who are living with colostomies.

A colonoscopy is a diagnostic procedure in which the entire length of the colon can be examined by inserting a very small camera attached to a fiber-optic cable through the anus. The colon can be examined for polyps, cancerous growths, or any other conditions.

Preparation is the most unpleasant part of the procedure for the patient. The entire colon must be cleared of fecal matter, necessitating some pretty extreme purging prior to the procedure. Humor columnist Dave Barry describes his experience in what is probably the world's longest – and funniest – poop-joke ~ HERE.

For the procedure itself, the patient is anesthetized.

The above is for your enlightenment and edification.

By the way, recently a friend of mine was highly amused by a message she got in a fortune cookie. It said, "You have an inner beauty." She laughed and said, "That's what they told me after my colonoscopy!"

Re "inventing" the colonoscopy procedure:   procedures of this kind are generally "invented" by a number of people. Someone has an idea, such as "It would be good if we could do some sort of minimally invasive (!?) examination of the colon that doesn't involve surgery at all." Many people put much thought to how this can be done and many ideas are advanced and rejected. Oftentimes, the solution comes with a technological advance of some sort such as—in the case of the colonoscopy—the development of a miniaturized television camera combined with fibre-optics.

My nephew is a trauma surgeon, and he has worked on a number of devices and procedures involving endoscopy and laparoscopy. That, he tells me, is how it's usually done, and rarely can any one person claim that he or she "invented" the procedure or device.

And this country STILL needs RATIONAL health care reform that includes a public option. Other countries have excellent systems that are much less expensive than ours. Why is the country that touts itself as "The Leader of the Free World" so bloody primitive in this area!??

Don Firth

P. S. By the way, GfS, I thought I would try to help you sort a few things out. This chart should help:   Learn to tell the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 06:00 PM

How meaningful are phone polls work these days when huge numbers of people, especially young people, don't use land-line phones any more?

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 04:58 PM

You're in worse shape than I thought, GfS. You can't even remember what you've posted.

Read your own post at 29 Nov 09 - 11:45 p.m.

Dr. Hiromi Shinya, the surgeon you cited as "inventing the colostomy [sic] procedure," and whom you seem to put so much store by has written a popular book, The Enzyme Factor, but I find nothing about him in medical journals. He has also developed a "miracle water" device (a water inonizer). And all of this, according to you, renders health care reform in this country unnecessary. Just buy some litmus paper and check your PH from time to time, and you'll never be sick again.

THAT's what I'm referring to!

And you call me stupid! Read your own stuff, GoofuS!!

Don Firth

P. S. I take it that, by now, you've sorted out the difference between a colostomy and a colonoscopy.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 03:55 PM

Don(roll my eyes again):"..Just because you either can't understand common sense or have a vested interest in apple cider vinegar and selling "water ionizers,..."

I wasn't referring to water ionizers.....Told you it was gibberish! How can I address your change of subject? You do this all the time!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 02:20 PM

""I receive no more than any other United States citizen who worked, paid into the Social Security system and served in the armed forces (U.S. Army).""

Are you trying to tell the world at large that 47 million Americans have never worked, paid into the Social Services, or served in the armed forces?

I only ask because you have just stated that you get no more than those who have.

Since the official figure for US unemployment is 10.2 percent, as of October 2009, and this is double the figure of 4.9 percent at December 2007, it would appear that there is a serious mismatch between the five percent of Americans unemployed and presumably relying on Social Security up to 2007, and the twenty or so percent who lack access to medical care.

It seems obvious then, that you do get more than quite a large number of those who work and pay into Social Services.

As for your other point, I do live in a civilised country, where my medical care costs me nothing at the point of treatment.
I did, until my retirement pay a National Insurance Contribution from my wages.
That contribution was about one tenth of the equivalent payment by those with company packages in the USA, and every single resident of this country, legal, or illegal, gets the same treatment, at need.

As a nation the UK spends a fraction of what the USA does, and we have universal care. And there are other countries who have systems which are arguably even better than ours.

Who was it that needs to pay a visit to a good Psychiatrist?.......But be careful which one you choose mate, it'll cost you a f**king fortune.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: DougR
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 01:27 PM

Don T: Carol C is correct in that I am retired. My insurance is provided by myself (co-pays), Medicare, and the Veteran's administration. It is not given to me, I earned it.

I receive no more than any other United States citizen who worked, paid into the Social Security system and served in the armed forces (U.S. Army).

If you classify that as privileged, then I have a lot of company:
Anyone who worked until retirement age.
Anyone who paid INTO the social security program until retirement.
Anyone who served in our country's armed forces.

And if you are of the opinion that should the current legislation in congress introduced by the Democrats becomes law it is:
Going to save people money.
Not going to increase the country's deficit.
Going to provide health insurance for EVERYBODY who doesn't have it.
Be operated efficiently.
You could use a good examination by a very good Psychiatrist.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 11:40 AM

That seems like a privileged position to me, at least until you retire, lose your job, or develop a condition they won't cover.

He's already retired and he receives his medical care through a government administered and taxpayer funded program. He thinks only people over the age of 65 deserve to be socialists.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 06:28 AM

My apologies to Guest from Sanity.

Sorry GfS, the figure I quoted was from DougR, not from you.

""The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that "just 27% now say the U.S. health care system is poor."""

DougR



And it was 27, not 29 percent.

The point I made, however, is still valid.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 06:19 AM

""Don T: "Privileged position?" 'splain please.""


"You've got yours, so screw the losers". Almost every comment you make reinforces that image of your attitude.

Over the course of five years or so, seeing your opinions on many different subjects, I have an overall picture of a man who is where he wants to be, and will defend his position vigorously, but sees those who cannot climb the ladder as indolent losers.

A man, in fact, who is adamantly opposed to paying one red cent of his hard earned cash to helping the less fortunate.

What is most difficult to explain to such men is that socialism is not synonymous with communism, that social projects will, in the long term pay dividends both nationally and individually, and that by paying a few cents extra on a regular basis, he can save himself money in the long term.

The bottom line is this. ALL the money your government spends comes out of your pockets, because that's all the money governments HAVE. One way or the other YOU pay.

Wouldn't you rather pay less AND have everyone covered?

If you answer no to that, then you are saying you prefer to go on being ripped off by greedy insurance companies, while one in five of your countrymen have nothing but the minimum of emergency aid.

That seems like a privileged position to me, at least until you retire, lose your job, or develop a condition they won't cover.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 01:29 AM

By the way, for those who wonder which of my posts GfS is whining about, it's at 30 Nov 09 - 01:58 p.m.

It's about 10:30 p.m. local time. Good night and pleasant dreams.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 01:22 AM

Just because you either can't understand common sense or have a vested interest in apple cider vinegar and selling "water ionizers," GfS, doesn't mean what I posted is gibberish. As I said, I'll leave it to others to make their own judgement of what I wrote.

Go ahead. Let's see you try to refute it. Dazzle us all with your brilliance!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 11:08 PM

No Don. It is refutable, but really it is very stupid. How is one suppose to address gibberish?? Never mind, don't try to even explain it...we'll end up somewhere on another planet...probably Uranus!

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 11:04 PM

She is very proud of it. Along with this: The modified Chairman's Mark [by Lincoln] would create a comprehensive approach to ensuring adequate public-private infrastructure and resolving to prevent, detect, treat, understand, intervene in, and where appropriate, aid in the prosecution of elder abuse, neglect, and exploitation by incorporation of Lincoln's Elder Justice Act (S. 795).

http://lincoln.senate.gov/newsroom/2009-09-22-5.cfm

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 10:57 PM

It's hard to believe. But I think the conclusion is unavoidable.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 10:31 PM

"-Raising the payment for bone density scans is a priority for two senators whom Reid hopes to win over in his bid to get 60 votes for his health care plan: Blanche Lincoln, a moderate Democrat from Arkansas, and Olympia Snowe, a moderate Republican from Maine."


                Are they that dumb?

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 09:54 PM

Look at these clowns. Big picture? Not on your life. No wonder the insurers and employers and unions can run circles around them:

-Employers would be required to provide an unpaid "reasonable break time for nursing mothers" in the first year after giving birth. Women would be provided a private place, other than a bathroom, to use a breast pump. The provision exempts companies with fewer than 50 workers if the requirement would impose "an undue hardship," a determination left to the employer to make.

-The Senate wants to help with a provision allocating $400 million from 2010 to 2015 to help teens make the transition to adulthood. The money goes to states primarily to set up sex education programs. But the money can also be used for "adult preparation" programs that promote "positive self esteem, relationship dynamics, friendships, dating, romantic involvement, marriage and family interaction."

In addition, the programs can teach financial literacy and other skills such as goal setting, decision-making and stress management. About $10 million of funding would go to "innovative youth pregnancy prevention strategies" in areas of the country with high teen birth rates.

The Personal Responsibility Education for Adulthood Training funding was approved as an amendment in the Senate Finance Committee. Republican Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine joined all the Democrats in passing it.

-Retiree who are under 65 but who still get health insurance from their former employer get a $10 to $15 billion a temporary "reinsurance" program under which the government
would pick up 80 percent of some high-cost insurance claims filed by retirees. (!!!)

-Raising the payment for bone density scans is a priority for two senators whom Reid hopes to win over in his bid to get 60 votes for his health care plan: Blanche Lincoln, a moderate Democrat from Arkansas, and Olympia Snowe, a moderate Republican from Maine.

------------------------

I noticed that all the pro-government people didn't bother to comment on that exemplar of the government-industry interface. Once again:
eHealth
"Sapsford . . . made headlines last month after the Star revealed his nearly $500,000 a year salary was funnelled through Hamilton Health Sciences to skirt government pay guidelines for senior bureaucrats."

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 07:02 PM

>>Many . . . see the current plan (elephant = mouse designed by a committee) is not going to help a thing, but unduly complicate the non-system we now have, and generally make things worse ~ while allowing the politicians to sit back and congratulate themselves for "reforming the health care system." And then go cash the checks they've collected from all the insurance company lobbyists.<<

That's what I thought about at the 22% "strongly support." Who could love it? But it is going to help one thing: expanded access. Not to be sniffed at.

Mouse designed by committee - yeah. Obama was persuaded that the time had come to do something big . . . not bold.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 06:32 PM

"Don, THAT WAS A STUPID POST! I don't even want to get into refuting it, bit by bit. It was just too stupid!"

GfS, your response to my post is the response of someone who has been nailed fairly, but refuses to acknowledge the fact. Of course you're not going to try to refute it, because you can't!

I leave it for others to judge, since you are not capable.

####

On Doug's statistics, Little Hawk is right on the money. I know a lot of people who are very gung-ho for health care reform, but see that the current plan (elephant = mouse designed by a committee) is not going to help a thing, but unduly complicate the non-system we now have, and generally make things worse ~ while allowing the politicians to sit back and congratulate themselves for "reforming the health care system." And then go cash the checks they've collected from all the insurance company lobbyists.

For all the sturm und drang, real health care reform ain't gonna get done this time around, either.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 06:13 PM

It all depends on how they word and present the questions.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 05:57 PM

Rassmussen has consistently shown lower approval numbers for health care reform than most of the other polls, so this last one is no surprise to me.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 05:31 PM

Don, THAT WAS A STUPID POST! I don't even want to get into refuting it, bit by bit. It was just too stupid!

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 05:29 PM

They are nonsense for the most part. What people say in response to a poll has usually been carefully pre-arranged by the pollsters by wording the questions in the poll so as to elicit the desired response from the majority of those responding.

"Sucker" questions, in other words.

But it makes for a good 20-second news bite.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 04:55 PM

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Since when do you believe in polls, Douggie-boy? When they were running against your boy Dumbya you said polls were nonsense & not to be believed.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 03:07 PM

I don't really know how to interpret your figures, Doug, and here's why.

I too am opposed to the plan that is presently going through Congress...but I am in favor of a different plan, one that would put in place a one-payer universal health care plan such as we have in Canada.

So, when you say that such and such a percent of your public is opposed to the health care plan that is presently being presented in your Congress, what does that tell us about what your public actually wants in terms of a health care plan and what their concerns are?

Not much!

People could oppose that plan for a huge variety of divergent reasons, and they could be people who would utterly disagree with one another on health care.

So as far as I can see, all you're doing is chuckling over the fact that Obama, a Democratic president, is losing support for his position, and for no other reason than the fact that you like to see a Democratic president lose support for his position.

As far as I can see, Obama's plan is strengthening the position of the very kind of privatized for-profit health care system you already support.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: DougR
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 02:40 PM

Today's Rasmussen poll:
41% SUPPORT HEALTH CARE LEGISLATION, 53% OPPOSE.

"The U.S. Senate is now formally beginning debate on a plan to reform health care in America, but most voters remain opposed to the plan working it's way through the Congress.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 41% of voters nationwide favor the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. Fifty-three percent (53%) are opposed to it. Those figures include 22% who Strongly Favor the plan and 40% who are Strongly Opposed."

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 01:58 PM

GfS, there are a number of pretty good indications that you are dealing with a snake oil salesman.

One is that what the person is advocating is a simple sounding "one size fits all" solution to a number of disparate health problems.

Another is when the solution is presented, not in medical journals with the idea of testing and peer review, but in the popular media:    books written for the general public, or on late-night television "infomercials."

Yet another is when the main advocate of the new and amazing panacea wants to sell you a gadget or a tonic or a bottle of pills that will bring this miraculous healing about.

Don Firth

P. S. Even if it sounds vaguely plausible, Check. Then check it again.

P. P. S   And even if there were such a magic cure for most of the world's ills, it would still not replace the need for health care reform in this country.

P. P. P. S.   And that's not being opinionated. That's just good sense!

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 01:20 PM

"Rather be right, than opinionated."

That's on my family crest, GfS. Also, "Check. Then check it again."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 12:31 PM

Very interesting stuff, GfS. Which method did you employ to move toward an alkaline system?

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 12:55 AM

I was typing pretty quickly, and my eyes went to the wrong line, in my notes. Don corrected the terms "...there is a difference between a colostomy and a colonoscopy...."(my spell check says that your spelling is wrong, and won't give me any other choice...I think you did spell it right, though).

P.S. For once we didn't butt heads. Its okay, Don, to admit error. Try it sometime, its OK! Rather be right, than opinionated.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 12:43 AM

Don is correct.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 12:42 AM

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 12:30 AM

I think you'll find that there is a difference between a colostomy and a colonoscopy. And I would suggest that you don't want to confuse the two.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 11:45 PM

Hmmm, Interesting couple of posts from the resident horse. Here, try this:

Fact: Dr.Otto Warburg won a Nobel Prize, in 1931 for discovering the cause of cancer originated and grew in oxygen deprived acidic tissue. Nobody since then has been able to disprove or repudiate that fact!(Little Hawk was again correct).

Fact: Dr. Hiromi Shinya of Japan, IS Japan's top surgeon, and considered within the top 10 in the world. He invented the colostomy procedure, and when you see the little camera, that you may have seen, on videos, or T.V., with the little tool on it to remove polyps, that was his invention. He has performed over 300,000 of those procedures, which included followed up, with giving the patient water, from his machine, that he also helped designed, from the large machines they have in the hospitals(in Japan)for home use, and is, in fact, the only licensed medical device, with three sanctions from the 'Biological Medical Institute', comprised of 6,500 doctors worldwide. With this water, and diet, to alkaline the body, NOT one person had a relapse or re-occurrence with that water!!

Fact: Dr. Hiromi Shinya is currently, clinical professor of surgery at Albert Einstein College of Medicine, in New York City, and Chief of Surgical Endoscopy Unit at Beth Israel Medical Center.
He has also written a book called the 'Enzyme Factor' (over 2 million sold)which is considered brilliant, and should be read by anyone who is REALLY INTERESTED about their health, beyond the politically correct nonsense, which has us ranked 37, in life longevity. It lays out exactly what you should know, and finally is being used by physicians and health givers, to educate people about foods, illnesses, and wellness,...not to mention living longer.

Fact: Japan ranks number one in life longevity. America ranks 37th!

Fact:The machine he is associated with is called 'Enagic', and info can be found at:

miraclewaterfoundation.com

I do not own one, but two people I know do, and swear by them. I do not sell them, nor have I any financial interest, commercial interest nor profit in anyway, from them. (I've gone a different route to get 'alkaline'). However these machines do work, within the first week, and one of my brothers, whose figures I will post, from his blood test, will blow you away!

So you might have 'opinions' about it one way or another, but they, on the most part, are just hot air from windbags..with no actual facts regarding what is being said.(That usually doesn't matter to a couple of the resident blowhards on here...well it hasn't in the past, anyway). I suggest to anyone who is really seriously heath conscious in this, to check out the website...not for arguing, but to educate themselves, and take a look-see.

This is a health issue, I'm not looking to debate! I already did my homework! I'm just trying to help!

I'm told, that those who buy the machines, are encouraged to GIVE the water away FREE, to any and everyone..for health's sake. Let THEM tell you if it changes their health!!
Warmest Regards,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 10:22 PM

As it stands, the public option is to get start up funds, but be entirely self sustaining from premiums only, for all time. They have to negotiate rates, the same as any other insurer, with no powers of coercion (e.g. take Medicare reimbursement rates.) I haven't a clue how this is supposed to work. It is generally accepted that higher cost individuals are supposed to end up there. They say the population will be tiny (3m?). Who is going to negotiate with it unless they have some other buying power we don't see? It should either shrivel or grow if it's free market as they say. The Feds are going to watch them shrivel and die with a hands-off policy?

Actuarial musings

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 03:08 PM

I think you're right, Don, that none of these things is a panacea and that people can get carried away with their particular pet issue or cure and take it too far. In any case, each individual case is unique, so the same approach won't work for everyone...and that's something that health practitioners themselves must keep in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 03:03 PM

I have heard about this acid/alkaline balance thing for years. Undoubtedly there is something to it. But—health faddists invariably leap on small factors, blow them all out of proportion with the real world, and try to make whatever their particular bug is the be-all and end-all of health.

My sister used to work in a health food store. She got interested in some of the claims that were being made for this or that diet, all of which are supposed to have the power to heal the sick, raise the dead, and generally enable one to walk on water. The acid/alkaline balance thing was a fad that was popular forty years ago. But it proved to be no panacea. It faded out, but still emerges from time to time. The internet is full of it (many sites pushing it are also trying to sell you a "water ionizer" for your kitchen faucet). And the internet is also full of all the other dietary fads that ever existed.

Drinking gallons of apple cider vinegar every day was supposed to adjust the PH balance and make one immune to everything from athlete's foot to cancer to hiccups to meteor strikes. But somehow wide consumption of the stuff didn't affect the national health figures. I imagine those who bottled and sold apple cider vinegar experienced a bit of a bonanza, though.

I'm healthy as a horse, save for the aforementioned scoliosis, which is a skeleto-muscular thing and is not affected one way or the other by diet. And I simply eat a well-balanced diet, letting such things as PH balance take care of themselves.

Sure, if I survived on Big Macs and fries every day, and washed them down with Coca-Cola, I would expect to have repercussions. But I'm smarter than that.

But—food fads and other one-solution gimmicks can be just as unhealthy as trying to survive solely on pizza and beer.

Don Firth

P. S. I have seen obesity figures for the United States as high as 40%, and it's true that many Americans eat a totally crap diet, but—why some people seem to regard the nation's poor eating habits inimical to a good government supported public health service, I just don't see. Trying to promote eating a healthier diet (and healthier living in general) should be an integral part of a national health care system.

But this current health care bill, with the insurance companies' noses in the middle of it, is turning out to be the proverbial horse designed by a committee, i.e., a six-legged camel. Too bloody cumbersome to function, which is exactly they way they want it.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 01:24 PM

I think you're right, Sanity, but you probably need to take one more step. Who benefits from all of this? Certainly they aren't doing all of this for their health.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: DougR
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 01:23 PM

Don T: "Privileged position?" 'splain please.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 01:12 PM

"That must be about twenty percent of your total population, which sort of corresponds to GfS's twenty nine percent who think it's crap."

Where did you get that???

If the present administration has its way, we'll all be 'have nots' so we HAVE to be dependent on THEM!

This was a 'set up' by the way, of the previous administrations...so don't confuse me with one of 'them' either.

I DID mention that quite a few times during the elections..and I was, and am right. Just take a look!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 11:21 AM

Carol, you are so right that many alternative health procedures should also be covered by national health insurance, because they are procedures which have long since proven themselve, which are accepted in many countries, and it's scandalous that they are not covered (in Canada, for example). Among those are, as you said, chiropractic and acupuncture. There are many naturopathic treatments that should also be covered. The reason they aren't covered is because conventional medicine is jealously guarding its turf...and that is all about money. Those with the biggest financial backing call the shots, and that determines what gets legislated.

Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 11:03 AM

Which bill is "this bill"? No bill has been agreed upon yet.