Folklore: St Georges day

Subject: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 03:24 AM

Stemming from some comments on the Bob Davenport thread I have started this thread to celebrate St Georges day. Only 23 days to go so so lets get the ideas rolling.

I start a bit early by trying to beat up St George at Lancaster on Good Friday. He wounds me but by the time his day comes around I have forgiven him:-) I don't often do anything on the day itself but starting this year I am going to make sure I do something typicaly English (Maybe go out for a curry?) Seriously - His flag is going to hung out of the bedroom window and I will make sure I wear a rose (red of course - I am Lancastrian after all) A couple of pints of Joseph Holts finest would not go astray either:-)

OK - Anyone else up for it?

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Bird Flu
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 03:35 AM

st george's day?

A minority of people with the delusion that england has a culture!

Just the same as they think that england has a music tradition!

The biggest practicing religion in england is islam. The culture is football and curry and the music tradition is disco/garage/pop shit!

So what relevance are the fictional exploits of some turkish saint?

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: alanabit
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 03:43 AM

It is all part of our longstanding tradition of importing foreigners to do all that culture stuff for us- Georg Friedrich Händel, Josef Conrad, George Papavgeris... You get the idea?

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: The Barden of England
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 03:50 AM

I will most certainly be celebrating on George's day. English and proud of it. I don't need loads of cheap Guiness to make me enjoy it either. On the other hand I might partake of the odd Bombardier!

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 04:00 AM

What's wrong with celebrating our national Saint, the Irish celebrate St Patrick day with much vigour, nearly every car in Scotland carries the national flag of St Andrew and the Welsh burn second homes, it's about time we made something of St Georges Day

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 04:02 AM

Whether I agree with you or not, Bird Flu, why should that stop anyone celebrating St Georges day? There are a lot of people I don't like as well but I wouldn't dream of stopping them enjoying themselves:-)

How about celebrating Shakespeares birthday instead?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 04:21 AM

If England doesn't have a culture, who the hell does?

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: The Admiral
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 04:32 AM

It strikes me that there's a touch of envy about Bird Flu's statement, I wonder which culture he come's from?

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: The Barden of England
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 04:44 AM

It'll be either Agriculture or Viticulture I suspect.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 04:51 AM

The Barden of England:
On the other hand I might partake of the odd Bombardier
That wouldn't be one of the thespians from the Deolali Concert Party would it?

Or perhaps you're referring to a pint of Wells Bombardier?

That's an interesting name for a beer from the Wells brewery, as a little nugget of info is that "Bombardier Billy Wells" (Lonsdale belt winning boxer) was the man seen striking the gong at the start of the 'Rank' films

CHEERS
Nigel

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST,Transporter
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 05:06 AM

Bird flu
Did you get up out of bed the wrong side to-day old son?
Blues skies

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Fidjit
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 05:55 AM

The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #90078   Message #1707341
Posted By: Fidjit
31-Mar-06 - 04:21 AM
Thread Name: Review: Bob Davenport's letter to Melody Maker
Subject: RE: Review: Bob Davenport's letter to Melody Maker

When last in Bishop's Stortford I bought a St Georges flag at the Turist Office. Then bought another one later as I lost the first somewhere on the street.(wrapped in a Sainsbury's bag- well it was raining!) What does that make me? Now you don't have to answer that. I'm gonna stick it up on the 23rd. So there!

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST,Colonic lavage
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 06:08 AM

What are you going to stick it up Fidjit?

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: The Barden of England
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 06:20 AM

Nigel Parsons
That wouldn't be one of the thespians from the Deolali Concert Party would it?

Or perhaps you're referring to a pint of Wells Bombardier?

No doubt about it - The Wells Bombardier with the Cross of St George emblazoned on the front. Might also do the same with a pint of Dragonslayer too mind you.

"For Harry and England!!"

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 06:23 AM

I would be very hard to disprove that Humanism is the most practiced religion in england.
I'm not saying that everyone who practices it realises that they are doing so!

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 06:40 AM

I always celebrate on the 23rd of April as it's my Birthday.
I See nothing wrong with the people of a nation celebrating that nation's existence.
(Though if I were to wrap myself in the flag it would be the Northumbrian one)
St George is patron Saint of England because he intervened on the Norman side in a couple of battles during the Crusades.
This must be true because the then Pope says it happened.
Humanism is neither a religion nor particularly practiced in England.
If you'd like to celebrate anything else that day,it's the Birthday of Roy Orbison & ,er, Shirley Temple as well as Shakespeare.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Snuffy
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 07:50 AM

I'm starting earlier than you, DtG. All this weekend I shall be smiting sundry Turks and Spaniards, soldiers, knights and kings with the Shakespeare Mummers at Crediton Folk Festival.

And on the evening of the 23rd a goodly host of folk will asemble at Lower Brailes (in the Deep South of Warwickshire) to celebrate our patron saint with:

• evensong at the parish church of St George
  
• morris dancing outside the George Hotel
  
• a St George & Dragons mummers play inside the George Hotel
  
• other assorted morris, mumming, music, merriment and mayhem inside the George Hotel

But I'll probably have to be the Doctor in that play. Killing's much more fun than curing. :-)

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 08:37 AM

Will you be celebrating England:
1. as it is now,
2. as it has always been,
3. as it might have been at some date or other,
4. as it might have been in some fiction

But then again I don't suppose most of you care about such irrelevant ramblings

Wassail?
Wasswine?
Wassmalt?
Wassever!

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: jacqui.c
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 08:55 AM

We will be celebrating the fact that we are English in the same way as the other parts of the UK celebrate on their own saint's day. There's a lot about my country that I love and am proud of even if I do not particularly like the way some of its denizens have behaved in the past or at present. It is a country of beauty - even driving up the A1 you can see some very pretty landscapes if you bother to look and the West Country and the Lakes are known the world over. We have a cultural heritage that takes in Chaucer, Shakespeare, Hardy, Turner (who was also born on 23 April), Britten, the Beatles......

I'm looking for a flag of St George over here in Maine - if I can't find one I may have to make one.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 08:59 AM

We have a growing cultural heritage that will be richer and more diverse because people of other cultures are coming here and staying.

Europeans took some great music to the US, could people be bringing great music to the UK now but some of us.....................

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 09:11 AM

I shall celebrate St George's Day, and be proud of England. I shall start the previous evening, in my folk session in the pub next door to me.

I may regret some things my country has done - but I shall still be proud of my country, and of the many good things it has done.

England - the country of Chaucer and Shakespeare, and thus the greatest literary tradition in the world - the country of the Magna Carta and thus the birthplace of consitutional democracy and subsequently the oldest parliament in the world - the country of Newton and thus the birthplace of the modern science of physics - the country of Tim Berners-Lee and thus the birthplace of the greatest modern communication tool, the internet - the country, more than any other, without which in the Second World War there would have been and still be be no modern free democracies.

Incidentally, the country from which originally the preponderance of the wellsprings of the folk music celebrated on this site came.

Probably the country with the most of which to be proud and the least of which to be ashamed of any in the world. Without England we would not be here having this discussion, whether on this site in this language or any other.

Bird Flu, you have problems.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 09:58 AM

Over here in the Colonies, Canada that is, we will be celebrating in Cambridge (that's not yours it's ours in Ontario) with abit of Morris Dancing (although My useless side has decided not to go {it's like this, the whole day of celebration was cancelled for a while and now there are too many of them doing other things}) I will be going anyhow and will dance with another side. We will then retire to the Golden Kiwi for some McAuslan's Oatmeal Stout or some Fullers London Porter. All this followed by an English session of music and singing.
Ah Heaven here's hoping Bird Flu becomes Bird Strike.
JohnB

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: concertina ceol
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 10:35 AM

Well I'll be celebrating St Georges Day with a spot of morris dancing and a song or 20. It's also a great day to celebrate the only instrument invented in England - yes you guessed it the Concertina (Sir Charles Wheatstone)! I can hear Nimrod in my head just thinking about it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 04:53 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Fidjit
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 07:58 AM

No comment. Colonic lavage.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 08:45 AM

He is patron saint of sufferers from leprosy, plague and syphilis. He is particularly the patron saint of archers.

Considering how much other cultures are loved here in England it's reassuring to know that he is shared with Aragon, Catalonia, Georgia, Lithuania, Palestine, Portugal, Germany, Greece, Moscow, Istanbul, Genoa and Venice.

If he tried to gain entry to England today I wonder how he would be viewed.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Joe Richman
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 11:25 AM

As a Greek Christian from Asia Minor, he'd probably be eligible for refugee status.

I'm a mutt American with some English ancestry. I'm extremely grateful for the English language, the Swahili of Europe. I particularly like my Mother's upriver Down-East accent. (She was born in The County.) I have an east of the LA river accent, myself, and have a hard time imitating her accent. My poor Dad had a slight New York Irish accent (due to high school teachers in Brooklyn who taught him English). My younger brother has acquired a Western Oregon (way south of Portland) accent from being educated there since 9th grade. My daughter is strictly Orange County (I guess you could call it a Mickey Mouse accent).   

Now about flying the flag on St. George's day: We don't own an English flag, but we do have a very nice New Brunswick flag. Will that do? Or must I fork over the $1.85?

Joe

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 12:18 PM

I had to check on New Brunswick Flag just to see if Joe Richman was referring to yet another flag with a red cross on a white background, but it is a little more ornamental than that

CHEERS

Nigel

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Joe Richman
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 12:49 PM

Right, Nigel. Ornamental is a good word for it. It's the only flag from anywhere in the British Commonwealth that we have in the house. I think it screams "I'm English!!!". (A lot of the settlers in New Brunswick were loyalists from New England.) Of course I could be confusing English with British. At the bottom of this web page in my browser is a little ad for a St George Cross flag. I don't know if it comes up in your browser.

Joe

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST,Abdul
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 01:55 PM

St george = neo nazis

I find that red cross on a white background deeply offensive.

This sort of thing only serves to alienate us muslims more and more. All christian symbols are offensive to us and should be banned.

Also that morris (moorish) dancing only takes the piss out of us.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 02:15 PM

P--s off abdul its our heritage and i am proud of been British.
Scooby

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 03:53 PM

"Takes the piss" is not a phrase a genuine Muslim would use.
Just so no one gets misled "Abdul" is about as Muslim as I am.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST,Slasher
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 04:27 PM

Despite its naive, offensive and ill-coceived brusqueness (shouldn't all religious symbols be banned in that case?) Abdul has a point.For too long the idiots have used our flag as an excuse to promote the bullshit that our grandfafathers fought against in WW11.
I will be out celebrating on the '23rd but I will be celebrating a progressive England that supports the right to indulge in criticism of our country's political pecadilloes.
I have a lot of time for celebrating the English tradition,morris dancing, mumming, folk songs etc but I would most certainly not want a return to inter-war Britain. I think we are a richer place for the assimilation of other cultures.It's not easy because bigotry comes in all hues but there are millions of people out there that, despite the western leaders' appaling forays into the middle east etc, would not live anywhere else.
I think it's high time we dropped the self loathing and took the flag back off the moronic tendencies and draped it round the shoulders of the working people,along with the artists and dreamers of this country.(But let's leave out the politicians because their motives cannot be trusted). We can learn lessons from mistakes and take pride in our achievements, and if every other country can rally once a year under a flag and saint, then so should we.

PS Abdul, I think you'll find that that morris dancing like other English customs does not take the piss, but re-enacts fertility rites which are at the heart of our agricultural past. A lot of our folklore and rituals contain elements that stem from a wish to thwart the devil in much the way you throw stones at him at the Haj.I find all religious subservience and associated symbols offensive but I strongly believe that people should be free to pursue it if they wish.

And, Scooby, if you're such an English son of Albion why name yourself after an American cartoon mutt? (And a dumb one at that?)

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: dozy rozy
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 05:44 PM

Boys, get a grip.We all live in the same world.
Lets just get on with it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 05:46 PM

morris dancing like other English customs does not take the piss, but re-enacts fertility rites which are at the heart of our agricultural past

Fat lot you know about real Morris then Slasher. Never been north of Oxford? ;-) Bloody glad St George puts paid to you in a couple of weeks. I'll try to bribe the doc to not resurrect you:-)

Cheers

Hector the Gnome
(Who only get wounded)

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST,mad mullah
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 01:39 AM

I am a muslim and I certainly use the phrase "take the piss" I don't know how many of us purple foxx actually knows. I cerainly don't mind people celebrating st george, but I think morris dancing is silly. The red cross flag has however been hijacked by the right wing. A lot of new british are not aware of it's real meaning and find it a bit threatening. Still christianity is dying out so in 20 years or so it won't matter.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Shields Folk
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:07 AM

The past few years I have wished everyone at work a happy St Georges day on the 23rd. It tends to freak a few out (especially the scotch and irish among them).

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:44 AM

It's quite amazing that 2 seperate "Muslims" should repeatedly make exactly the same presentational error in 2 postings to the same thread.
No matter let's address your assertions:
"I Don't know how many of us Purple Foxx actually knows."
Considerably more than you by the look of things.
"...I find Morris dancing a bit silly."
Part of me is inclined to agree.Neither your opinion nor mine invalidate it.
"The red cross flag however has been hijacked by the right wing."
Actuallly they tend to focus their efforts on the Union flag.
No matter the same choices are open to us: A)Whinge. B)Reclaim it.
I tend to option B myself.
"A lot of new British...find it a bit threatening."
As the saying goes, those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.
"...Christianity is dying out..."
Christianity faces the same threat as Islam.
Both are being co-opted by Fundamentalist fanatics.
You can hang around this site playing "let's pretend" or you can address that fact.
Your life is determined by the choices you make.
Your move.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST,slasher
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:29 AM

Actually Dave, I've never been south of Brum (well, not often)but I've always picked up on the fertility side of our customs,(Bean Setting anyone?) though I do concede I am not an academic or anything.
Take the George play -We are divided on Its' true original purpose in our version but the birth, death and resurrection themes are universal and I'm sure it's no coincidence that it parallels with the changing seasons and the agricultural cycle.
But whatever your take it's a bloody good laugh and a chance to fly your colours, so I hope you have a good day
Cheers

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:35 AM

Shields Folk,
Theres a quote on the back of a Gaughan album that says"what the celts tend to forget is that England was the first colony of the British Empire" or something like that, maybe we have more in common than they like to think
Cheers

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: melodeonboy
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:57 AM

Whether anyone finds Morris dancing silly is neither here nor there. If you're in the right frame of mind (and herbal refreshment!) most forms of dancing can look silly.

And Morris dancing does date more slowly than the other forms of "dancing" which the British have indulged in over the past few decades under the guise of fashion. Look at the dancing that you come across from time to time in 60s films; how many of us can look at that without chuckling?

I find the Gulf Arab sword dance extremely silly, but that's just me. I'd never suggest for one minute that they stop doing it just because I don't see much in it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: melodeonboy
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 08:59 AM

Sorry; I should have said "English", not "British".

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: kendall
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 12:39 PM

I think if I was a Muslim, I would capitalize Muslim.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 03:17 PM

Cheers, Slasher:-) I take it all back and hope the doc slips an extra potion or two in that wee bottle!

Still can't figure out what the clog, rapper or longswords have to do with fertility but I suppose someone needs to stamp the seeds into the ground, cut the harvest and thresh the corn;-) You never know...

Cheers

and I will enjoy it (If you are at Lancaster on Good Friday ask Hector for a good measure of Pussers rum)

DtG

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Brass Monkey
Date: 02 Apr 06 - 04:37 PM

By 'herbal refreshment' do you mean some sort of herbal tea. If anything, Morris dancing always gave me a fit of the giggles and sent me rolling around the floor in stitches (with and without the 'erbs). I don't know if you could call that a form of dancing but I certainly hope it catches on! It's my favourite kind.

Yes, I suppose swords would be a handy implement to cut the crops with.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 09:28 AM

Those of us who play music could play St George's Hymn. Go to this site:

http://www.norbry.net/midi/archive/hymn/

click on the sixth song down (bornin), and you will hear what it sounds like. Chances are it's familiar to you.

It would make a dignified processional, I think.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: kendall
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 05:08 PM

Utah Phillips says "A man should try anything once, except Morris Dancing and incest."

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 03 Apr 06 - 05:34 PM

Morris Dancing is part or the British Isle and also the Celit part of GB.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 06:59 AM

Sounds like Utah Phillips was misquoting Arnold Bax.

Subject: RE: Folklore: St Georges day
From: kendall
Date: 04 Apr 06 - 07:22 AM

If he did, it was intentional