BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Peace
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:41 PM

Hezbollah starts a war. So it's Israel's fault now. Gimme a break.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:45 PM

what jack the sailor said:

he said it so well it's worth repeating.

"There is no "but" there is no excuse for slaughtering civilians certainly not 700 in a month. And you sir are a liar. I have not cheered Hezbollah and you have had no indication that I would. That is just a cowardly diversion because of your bankrupt, immoral support of the murderers in the IDF, you have run out of argument so now you try to smear me with the same ugly brush with which you have smeared yourself. You accuse me of cheering on murders." jts

ps - jts - where is carol? i hope she's ok.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:46 PM

"Who died and left you in charge? "

"How does what I said belittle anyone? "

Time for a Handle change, then....

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:50 PM

"Hezbollah starts a war."

Israel started the war, Peace. They sent israeli soldiers into lebanon. Hezbollah captured those soldiers in Lebanon. They were an invading military presence - Hezbollah was responding IN SELF DEFENCE ON LEBANESE SOIL.

get it?

ps why do you call yourself Peace when you are such a gung-ho cyber warrior?

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:53 PM

ps - that was not a comment supporting Hezbollah - it was a comment responding to the claim that Hezbollah started the war.

and peace, Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: number 6
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 10:18 PM

Boy .... Jack's starting to sound like Carol ... or is Jack Carol??

"And you sir are a liar. I have not cheered Hezbollah" ... never said you did ... I said and it's a quote in your post ... "But would you and LH cheer on the Hezbollah's continous rocketing".

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: number 6
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 10:26 PM

Yes Bill H ... and i feel this has to be reposted ...

Shane---come back we need you again---Shane--Shane. Damn---he just keeps riding into the sunset just when we need him once again. Guess we have to handle the rustlers on our own."

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: bobad
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 10:27 PM

Hey freda

Let's hear you say that you do not support terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah, whose avowed mission is the destruction of LEGITIMATE states such as Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: number 6
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 10:54 PM

Just to let ya all know, since this conflict has all but been forgotten in our arguing on Hezbollah and Israel ... the civilian death toll for the month of July in Iraq was 3,438, a 9% increase over the month of June.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 11:10 PM

BTW, in Israel it's the Indians who finally got their land back. But since the 'Indians' in this case are Jews they are somehow discounted.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: number 6
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 11:14 PM

"Israel started the war, Peace. They sent israeli soldiers into lebanon. Hezbollah captured those soldiers in Lebanon. They were an invading military presence - Hezbollah was responding IN SELF DEFENCE ON LEBANESE SOIL."

Freda ... that statement has no credibility.

Freda and Jack, since you both posted this and it's directed at me .... "And you sir are a liar. I have not cheered Hezbollah and you have had no indication that I would. That is just a cowardly diversion because of your bankrupt, immoral support of the murderers in the IDF, you have run out of argument so now you try to smear me with the same ugly brush with which you have smeared yourself. You accuse me of cheering on murders." .... This statement has no credibility also Read my post at 18 Aug 06 - 10:18 PM

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 11:23 PM

you're right - that info has since been refuted & I should have read the whole thread.

For the record (again) I do not support terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah, and i do not support government funded terror either.

but I still don't understand why you support massacres of civilians & war crimes in Lebanon.

btw the San Francisco Chronicle reports that "more than a year ago, a senior Israeli army officer began giving PowerPoint presentations, on an off-the-record basis, to US and other diplomats, journalists and thinktanks, setting out the plan for the current operation in revealing detail". The attack, he said, would last for three weeks. It would begin with bombing and culminate in a ground invasion. Gerald Steinberg, professor of political science at Bar-Ilan University, told the paper that "of all of Israel's wars since 1948, this was the one for which Israel was most prepared ... By 2004, the military campaign scheduled to last about three weeks that we're seeing now had already been blocked out and, in the last year or two, it's been simulated and rehearsed across the board".

A "senior Israeli official" told the Washington Post that the raid by Hizbullah provided Israel with a "unique moment" for wiping out the organisation. The New Statesman's editor, John Kampfner, says he was told by more than one official source that the US government knew in advance of Israel's intention to take military action in Lebanon. The Bush administration told the British government.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 06:07 AM

And your point is?

ANY military which does NOT have contingency plans to deal with ongoing and likely threats is less than effective.

You CANNOT complain about Israel having plans to deal with Hezbollah, a threat over the last 6 years with random attacks on civilians, and then complain that the US did not have plans to deal with the (unexpected to some) sectarien violence in Iraq.


Well, I guess you can, when you are being biased and looking only for a way to blame the victims for defending themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 07:43 AM

This thread is now running close to just being an abuse thread.

If you have to resort to throwing abuse at and calling those who oppose your point of view a liar, then you may just have nothing else to contribute, except the abuse.

I was taught during my debating training that he who can only put up abuse to defend his point of view has lost. At the very least he will cause others to distance themselves from him.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 03:36 PM

I see Robomatic has joined the silly statements team.

The recent battle Lebanon was comparable to the seige of Masada, Israel has recently kept Hezbollah from destroying it and now "Israel are the indians returning to their land." I keep expecting you all to say "just kidding" and then to talk like reasonable, truthful people.

This little war has been a sordid, dirty bloodbath. There is no excuse for slaughtering civilians and the wholesale destruction of civilian infrastructure.

Peace,

Apparently this requires repeating. If I'm required to repeat it to you again. I won't. I'm now giving you credit for having missed it. If you say or imply one more time that I am cheering for murders, I'll be forced to conclude that you are deliberately libeling me.

I have not cheered Hezbollah, I have said that killing 39 Israel civilians was wrong. I also feel strongly that killing 700 civilians was wrong. 700 is a much much larger number that 39, is it not?

Freida,

Carol is sitting next to me. She is fine and she says hi.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Peace
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 03:39 PM

Jack,

What the fuck are you talking about?

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Peace
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 03:44 PM

PS Your statement about libel: You seem to have read someone else's post and assumed it was my post. Please quote what you seem to think I have said to you--or shut the fuck up.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 03:53 PM

For a nice break from all this divisive fooferaw...go to the "Non-political, Non-religious" thread and post NOW. Do it. You'll be glad you did.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: bobad
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 03:53 PM

Jack, can you provide a source (other than Hezbollah) for the numbers you cite?

This post tells a different tale.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 03:57 PM

JTS:

My comment was a general one, not related to the recent unpleasantness. I think there are plenty of folk who would cheer if a documented tribe of American Indians managed to return to their ancestral lands. Many of these same people do not cheer for the Jews in the identical parallel situation.

It is no more "silly" than when somebody earlier on this thread sent:
"You see, the Indians attacked those settlers cause they thought that the settlers were stealing the land that their deity had given them in perpetutity."

Close,

The Natives attacked the Settlers who were stealing their land by force.

Jews have been saying "next year in Jerusalem" for a long time. Finally some of them got the wherewithal to start the return and were met by obstacles at every turn, including this really cruel one where the Israeli state has resettled Jews from Arab lands, but the Arab states, much larger and more numerous, have on purpose refused resettlement to those Arabs from what is now Israel.

In the recent unpleasantness, which has resulted in life lost on both sides of the border, only Arabs have been killed on the North side of the border, because no Jews are allowed to live in equality among Arabs now, yet on the South side of that border, both Jews and Arabs have been victimized by over a thousand rockets launched indiscriminately at Israeli towns and cities. Not only that, Hezbollah leaders urged Israeli Arabs to leave the area, so they could be assured of more Jewish victims, harking back to the days when Arabs left their homes in the area of fighting so that the national Arab armies could ethnically cleanse the Jews from the area, hence resulting in a lot of the departed Arabs who now wish that their grandchildren can inherit their forfeited lands.

The fact that more civilians died in the North than the South seems to be 'unfair' to you. I wonder if you would be quite so concerned if the death toll had been reversed. Have you bothered to take the toll of how many Israelis have been killed by Homicide bombers as opposed to Arabs killed by Jewish homicide bombers?

Regards to Carol. Hope to see her back in Mudcat soon, either side of the line.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 04:06 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: number 6 - PM
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 10:18 PM

Boy .... Jack's starting to sound like Carol ... or is Jack Carol??

"And you sir are a liar. I have not cheered Hezbollah" ... never said you did ... I said and it's a quote in your post ... "But would you and LH cheer on the Hezbollah's continous rocketing".

sIx"

Six,

I'm not going to quibble with you over meaningless semantics. You had no basis at all to accuse LH and I of cheering for Hezbollah. Your posing this accusation in a rhetorical question does not excuse that.

Your tactics seem remarkably similar to the IDF's. They say they are targeting Hezbollah, but when 700 civilians and most of Lebanon's infrstructure get destroyed, it was an "accident". It was an "accident" but they had it coming. It was an "accident" that the Israeli cabinet said they would carry out. It was an "accident", and the Israelis dropped leaflets saying that if Hezbollah is allowed to rearm the same "accident" would happen again only worse.

You say "But would you and LH cheer on the Hezbollah's continous rocketing". You say this after I had condemned the rocketing by Hezbollah. Obviously you are not asking a question to which you expect an answer. You already had your answer. But now you are trying to imply that you asked an innocent question, with the further implication being that if some third person reads what you have said and infers that LH and I are cheering on Hezbollah, then that would be an "accident". It would be an "accident" but we had it coming.

Slaughtering innocent civilians is wrong. There are no excuses.
Lying about what someone has said is wrong. There are no excuses.

You are a liar. You lied about what I said. Show some courage. Own up to that.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: number 6
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 04:13 PM

Jack ... Read my post again ... I never accused you .. I asked 'would you'.

I think it's time this thread was closed ... it's now becoming ridiculous and downright nasty.

It's no longer a debate.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 04:15 PM

I'm sorry if I was mistaken Peace, but I thought this was directed toward me.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Peace - PM
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 09:21 PM

But of course there are no murderers in Hezbollah are there?

If it was. It was clearing a sarcastic statement phrased as a question accusing me of condemning Israel for Murder while excusing Hezbollah.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Peace
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 04:16 PM

Thank you. Now, please don't talk with me again.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 04:31 PM

Jack ... Read my post again ... I never accused you .. I asked 'would you'.

I addressed that in my last post to you. You didn't ask any question you expected an answer to.

I think it's time this thread was closed ... it's now becoming ridiculous and downright nasty.

It's no longer a debate.

sIx

I thought it was pretty ridiculous when you were talking about Hezbollah destroying Israel. I thought it turned nasty when you accused me and Little Hawk of supporting Hezbollah, and no I don't give a damn if you phrased it as a question or not. We aren't playing Jeopary.

I really don't give a damn if the thread is closed or not. What's one thread more or less on the Mudcat?

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 04:38 PM

Robo,

What you said struck me as pretty funny. But I was wrong to mention it in the same bit with sIx and Peace.

If I were to draw a line down the middle of a piece of paper and write all the similarities between the Israelis and the Indians on one side and all the similarities between the Palestinians and the Indians on the other, then apparently I would come to a very different conclusion than you would doing the same exercise.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: number 6
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 04:38 PM

bye bye Jack.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 04:49 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: bobad - PM
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 03:53 PM

Jack, can you provide a source (other than Hezbollah) for the numbers you cite?

This post tells a different tale.

Bobad. I get my news from conventional sources CBC, CNN, Reuters, NPR. I'm not going to go look up the numbers for you. But if you have numbers for civilian death tolls that are different and want to show them to me in an official news source. I'll be glad to read them.

Peace and sIx had the choice of refuting what I said by citing data. But the numbers, even Israel's numbers, makes Israel look bad. So they chose to try to trap me into defending Hezbollah.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 08:09 PM

Let me try and put it in context for you. The Jews were persecuted,killed, driven off their lands, exiled, deported, refused basic rights, until after many massacres they were given a tiny reservation by all the big bad bullies in the world. Now every bastard around them want's their reservation land back under their control; and if possible wants all the jews dead in the process. Sound familiar?

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 11:31 PM

Not at all, Dave. Sounds like a story made up by someone with a continent-sized martyrdom complex to me. That land was not given to them by a bunch of "bullies". It wasn't given to them by anyone. They took it by force. Nobody wants that piece of land back except some of the people who were born in that area or whose parents or grandparents were. I sure as hell don't want it. The Germans don't want it. The Chinese don't want it. The Dutch don't want it. The Russians don't want it. The French don't even want it anymore. Who the hell would want it except the Jews and the other Semitic peoples who have lived in that area for the last few generations?

Jews do not own the world patent on "victimhood" or martyrdom. It's not exclusive to Jews. In fact, Muslims of various varieties are rapidly adopting it as their credo now, and using it to motivate their struggle against Israel and the USA...and that seems rather ironical under the circumstances. One set of professional victims (Jews) have succeeded, by over 50 years of war, in creating another set of professional victims (Muslims)...and the two are bound and determined to kill each other off now in the name of their past grievances...just like 2 scorpions locked in a fatal embrace.

And....they BOTH revere the same ancient prophets and holy texts!!!!! They are all reputedly the desendants of Moses and Abraham and King Solomon and the rest. So it's a family quarrel.

What a ludicrous situation it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Invictus
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 12:34 AM

There are a lot of cartoons available here. Interestingly enough, there are a lot of cartoons depicting the Israelis as Nazis or as the Nazis characterized Jews. But most cartoons on display on the internet are based on the Arab-Israeli conflicts, not the Holocaust. There are a lot of photos of the Holocaust cartoon exhibition, showing crowds attending, but not so much the cartoons themselves. I'm still trying to navigate the site but have your own go.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 02:49 AM

Why do you want to see these cartoons?

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 04:00 AM

To judge for himself, and not just consume anyone's blatant political spin, I would guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 06:09 AM

Guess noone reads history anymore LH

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: bobad
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 09:07 AM

"It wasn't given to them by anyone. They took it by force."

The 1947 U.N. Resolution 181 partition plan was to divide the remaining 25% of Palestine into a Jewish Palestinian State and a SECOND    Arab Palestinian State (Trans-Jordan being the first) based upon population concentrations. The Jewish Palestinians accepted... the Arab Palestinians rejected. The Arabs still wanted ALL of Palestine... both east

http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 09:28 AM

Was it the UN's to give? If you tell me you think God gave it to them, I'll respect your opinion on that. But if your trying to tell me an outside body gave away land that someone was living on, to be a country for a third party. Well I find that funny.

Of course they wanted all of it. How would you feel if the UN gave away part of your country?

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 09:52 AM

Bobad

That website seems like a wonderful source opinion. I wouldn't go to it for information. For one thing according to the UN, who you say gave away the land, there was and still is a Palestine. Masada2000.org's editors seem to be halucinating their information.

Here is a
UN History of Palestine I'm sure it is a better source for information about UN declarations.

Bad news for your argument. According to the UN, whose document you reference, Israel, Jordan and Egypt "took it (Palestine) by force. And expelled over drove away more than half of the population. Do you thing that is what that "right of return" stuff refers to?

        

After looking at various alternatives, the UN proposed the partitioning of Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized (Resolution 181 (II) of 1947). One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan proclaimed its independence as Israel and in the 1948 war expanded to occupy 77 per cent of the territory of Palestine. Israel also occupied the larger part of Jerusalem. Over half the indigenous Palestinian population fled or were expelled. Jordan and Egypt occupied the other parts of the territory assigned by the partition resolution to the Palestinian Arab State which did not come into being.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 10:27 AM

Treaty of Sèvres. By this treaty the sultan's government renounced all claims to non-Turkish territory. The kingdom of the Hijaz was recognized as independent. Syria became a mandate of France, and Mesopotamia (with Mosul), as well as Palestine, became British mandates. Smyrna and its hinterland were to be administered by Greece for five years, after which a plebiscite was to be held. The Dodecanese and Rhodes went to Italy, while Thrace and the remainder of the Turkish islands in the Aegean were assigned to Greece. Armenia was recognized as independent. The Straits were to be internationalized and the adjoining territory demilitarized. Istanbul and the strip of territory to the Chatalja lines remained Turkish, as did the remainder of Anatolia.

lets give it back to the Turks and let them decide who lives there.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: bobad
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 11:42 AM

"That website seems like a wonderful source opinion. I wouldn't go to it for information."

Of course you wouldn't - it's written by Jews.

"who you say gave away the land"

I don't say it, the UN does.

"Bad news for your argument"

I make no argument, I just don't see it as black and white as LH does when he says "they took it by force", that's a bit too simplistic IMO.

"Was it the UN's to give?"

The UN, acting in it's capacity as a body representing the countries of the world, deemed it imperative that the Jewish people have a homeland. You may not like that but it seems that the majority of countries had no problem with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 01:31 PM

Jewish fighters took it by force and set up a new government in the region. The U.N. then chose to recognize that as a fait accompli. I imagine that there were a lot of political reasons behind that...not least of which this one: "The many displaced European Jews who are looking for a new home now in the wake of the disastrous events of WWII won't be our problem if they go to Palestine, they'll be somebody else's problem. Somebody whom no one really gives a damn about anyway. Hmmm...sounds like a plan! Let's ratify it."

I repeat, no one gave it to them. They took it, by violent struggle and they held it. The U.N. rubber stamped the result.

You can call that "giving it to them", if you want to. I don't. Anyway, I don't think it's legal to give away someone else's land to a third party, is it? I know it's not legal in most places.

Face it, the world wasn't being nice to either the Jews or the Palestinians in that situation. The world was passing the buck and shifting a complex cultural problem onto someone else's shoulders.

I don't think they so much "deemed it imperative that the Jewish people have a homeland".... I think they merely deemed it imperative that that homeland be....someplace else. Someplace where the locals didn't have a strong enough voice or enough international muscle to effectively say "no". And there were, of course, ancient religious and cultural connections for Jews to that region, so it was all quite convenient from the point of view of various self-interested western nations who really didn't want to deal with the problem themselves.

But they have had to deal with it ever since anyway...so I'd say they miscalculated.

I don't think that in truth the Jews have ever been treated fairly or equitably by the victors of WWII. They're never been treated as equal human beings by the non-Jewish majority in the West, although a lot of politically correct noise has been made to give that impression. Jews have instead been stigmatized and exploited, and their desire to achieve nationhood has been used to advance other geopolitical agendas which are not truly in their interest at all. Both Jews and Muslims have suffered greatly as a result of that. What has it mostly been about? Cold war power games between Russia and the West...and who gets to control the oil and other strategic considerations in the Middle East.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 01:39 PM

I give up on here Tacitus wrote "ten thousand opinions are of no value if the men have no knowledge of the subject"

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: bobad
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 01:45 PM

I'm with you Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 02:07 PM

People always subjectively interpret history to suit their emotional agenda, don't they?

Whose land was that land to give away? What do you think? Does anyone give away their land willingly? No. People will sometimes share land willingly...by allowing immigration. Even then, there is usually a backlash of some kind by many of the local people if too many new immigrants come in at one time, and we've all seen that from time to time.

I witnessed a wave of considerable prejudice against Indo-Pakistani immigrants in Canada in the 70's and 80's, for example...simply because there were a lot of them at that time.

There was tremendous prejudice against the Irish when they were emigrating in great numbers to North America in the mid-1800's, and for the same reason...there were a lot of them, and people felt threatened in some way.

Jewish immigration into Palestine after WWII was a bit unusual, wouldn't you say? It was more militant than such immigration usually is. It involved organized acts of terrorism and war. Is it surprising that that has led to continued bitterness and warfare?

I don't see any simple solution. If anyone else does, let's hear it.

If your solution is to totally intimdate one side into surrender by applying massive military force, I would suggest to you that that has already been tried over and over again by all the involved parties...and it has not succeeded. It's not going to succeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Peace
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 02:54 PM

Let the Jew haters have the thread. That way we'll know where they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 03:03 PM

Let the Muslim haters have the thread. That way we'll know where they are. ;-)

(actually, we won't know in either case....and even if we did know, it wouldn't matter anyway)

Let's find something we can all agree on instead, like how terrific Barry Manilow's recordings are.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 03:07 PM

C'mon LH: you are correct about people's subjective impression of events, and you are right in there with 'em. We've been over this territory before. You frankly sympathize with the underdog, but your version of who is underdog is whoever is in the ring, and you sympathize with whoever is showing more sweat or blood by the minute. Your 'sympathy' and those who think as you, serves to continue the battle till both combatants are drained utterly and/or dead. Call it "Persian" sympathy after the habit of Persia to supply both sides to its dueling neighbors, in the good ol' days when they were trying to conquer Greece.

In another venue I explained to you my reasons for indicating that Israel remains the underdog in its battle for existence, taking into account the history of the region and the nature of the Arab states who control the dispersion of the Arabs from the new state of Israel.

End The Unjust Jewish Occupation Of Arab Lands

Meanwhile, if I understand the reason for this thread, it is a slightly different 'take' on events. It is not about Israel versus Arabs, it is comparing how Muslims reacted to some published cartoons of a frankly mild nature against Muslim justification of terrorism and now how there are some explicitly nasty cartoons being displayed either approving of the Holocaust or indicating that it never happened (or, as modern Nazis maintain, both at the same time!).

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Peace
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 03:34 PM

"Let the Muslim haters have the thread."

To correct your typo, "Hezbollah haters, not Muslim. Thank you. And goodbye.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 06:31 PM

Bobad,

I don't care where the people who wrote the website go to church, or Temple. I do care that they are wrong. The Palestinians do exist, putting quotes around the word won't make them go away.

You said that a UN resolution gave the land to Israel, but you dismiss what the UN has to say about it.

That Tacitus quote no doubt most strongly applies to those who refuse to see information when it is right in front of them.


Jew Hater's Peace? I'm not a Jew hater. I'm a state terrorism hater and a war hater. I don't like what Hezbollah is doing and I don't like what IDF has done since it was a little terrorist cell called the Stern gang. But today someone has to defend Israel and someone has to defend the Shiites in Lebanon. I just think they ouoght to do it without committing war crimes against humanity, killing civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 07:48 PM

JTS:

Nice Try: The Stern Gang was indeed a nice bunch of a-holes. ONe of the few cases where when the English caught 'em they did not make trial. The IDF possibly traces its origin to the Haganah, which has been accused of terrorsim in its own right, but nothinglike the very tiny band known as The Stern Gang.

This 'inaccuracy' puts your motives in question, since it's pretty obvious.

Hezbollah is so wedded to civilians, both as provider and predator, that it is impossible to separate going after Hezbollah from (the admittedly euphemistic term of) collateral damage. Early on in the conflict there were some 'catters predicting tens of thousands of casualties, which is what a country with command of the air was perfectly capable of inflicting. That this did not happen is a sign of limited aim. That this did not stop the PR campaign, along with inaccuracies if not downright lies, is no surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Still Waiting for Jews To Riot
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 07:49 PM

LH: Just a short note that reiterates my earlier statements (not the atirical ones):

    1) The UN Resolution and Vote of 1948---Allowed for a State of Israel. That came first.   

    2) Israel declares statehood ---and much of the land had been purchased from the Palestinians over the years. I still recall the blue boxes that people used to collect funds to send to the people there.
    3)   All the Arab states attack and a small ill equipped force beats them---Israel calls it one name (I believe the War of Independence)--the Arabs call it "The Catastrophe"   Even the wars cannot have a uniform nomenclature.   But this is pretty true---of course, the Arabls brought the "catstrophe" on themselves---and have never stopped trying---at the expense of the Palestinians.

Well, time is a continuam. Nations grow stronger ---as the U S has done since its inception. Nations grow weaker. It comes down to understanding the continuam and realizing that people will always defend their nations with massive force. If not we would still have a Roman Empire or and Ottoman Empire or any of the others.

Now if we had---as Wendell Wilkie said---One World--well, would be nice. But, that might have happened in times of political struggles. I believe that now we are engaged in religious and ethnic struggles that are totally irreconcilable with politics---sort of like the Crusades. Only now coming from the other side.

There---I have said it and I guess that is the line in the sand---sadly.


BH