Origins: Amazing Grace

Subject: Amazing Grace
From: MotoZulli
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 12:48 PM

I'm collecting lyrics to the song Amazing Grace, if anyone has any others i would love to see them. also any lyrics to any songs in the same category as Amazing Grace (ex: swing low sweet chariot) or if anyone knows any web sites where i could find info about these songs. i have the following verses already to amazing grace: " Amazing grace, how sweet the sound...." "The earth shall be dissolved like snow..." "And when this mortal life shall fail..." When we've been there ten thousand years..." "twas grace that taught my heart to fear..." "the lord has promised good to me..." "Through many dangers toils and snares..."

if anyone can help me email at [e-mail] Thankyou!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Gene
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 01:46 PM


*TRY HERE*

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Bruce O.
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 02:09 PM

Try to find a copy of Olney Hymns, that's where John Newton first published his song. I forgot when it was published, somewhere around 1770.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 04:56 PM

I too am collecting verses to Amazing Grace and I have 13 verses so far (including the refrain). Will post them when I'm not in such a rush to get out of work.

What I've found, however, is that there are a few "all purpose" verses that show up in many melodies, including Amazing Grace and other songs.

The Cyber Hymnal has many of the kind of songs you are looking for:

http://tch.simplenet.com/Default.htm

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Yuri Lopez
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 08:53 PM

Hello all. I'm searching for some definitions of spirtuals or their history. If anyone could help me I'd really appreciate it.

Subject: Lyr Add: AMAZING GRACE
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 98 - 12:53 PM

These are the verses I have. I would appreciate anyone posting any other verses to this GREAT song.

There are lots of different ways to perform the song, too. Bill Moyers did a special on Amazing Grace on public television, which showed many different groups and all kinds of interpretations. I like it bluegrass style, and also bluesy. Or any other way.

Amazing Grace
John Newton & Wm Walker

(Chorus)
G C G
Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
D A D7
That saved a wretch like me
G C G
I once was lost but now I'm found
Em D7 G C G D7
Was blind but now I see.

'twas grace that taught my heart to fear
And grace my fears relieved
How precious did the grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come
It's grace that brought me safe thus far
And grace will lead me home.

When we've been here ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Then when we first begun.

How long, dear Saviour, oh how long
Have I on earth to stay?
Roll on, roll on, ye wheels of time
And bring that joyful day.

The Lord has promised good to me
His word my hope secures
He will my shield and portion be
As long as life endures.

How sweet the name of Jesus sounds
In a believer's ear
It soothes his sorrows, heals his wounds
And drives away his fear.

Must Jesus bear the cross along
And all the world go free?
No, there's a cross for everyone
And there's a cross for me.



We lay our garments by
Upon our beds to rest
'though death may soon disrobe us all
Of what we now possess.

Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail
And mortal life shall cease
I shall possess, within the veil
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow
The sun forbear to shine
But God, who called me here below
Will be forever mine.

Amazing grace has set me free
To touch, to taste, to feel
The wonders of accepting love
Have made me whole and real.

The world shall soon to ruin go
The sun refuse to shine
But God, who called me here below
Shall be forever mine.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: JVZ
Date: 01 Oct 98 - 01:49 PM

Let's not forget:

Shall I be wafting to the sky,
On flowery beds of ease.
While others strive to win the prize,
And sail on bloody seas.

(Note that it has reference to John Newton's early years as a slave ship's captain)

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Oct 98 - 03:00 PM

If you click here, you'll see that the database has only six verses (if you don't count our Gaelic version and two parodies, 1 and 2). Barbara Shaw and JVZ added several. If anybody has others, please share them with us. Our hymnal at church has only the usual verses - it would be nice to have some others to throw in when the priest is slow....
Hey, we could have an "Amazing Grace marathon"!!!
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 98 - 03:06 PM

JVZ, Interesting, that the verse you posted is a verse I've heard in the song "Am I a Soldier of the Cross" which is also known as "Sea of Galillee" on the thread called CARTER FAMILY LYRICS. Like I said, a lot of these songs use "all purpose verses."

Anyway, that sounds like a good verse to add to my list of (now) 14!

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Bruce O.
Date: 01 Oct 98 - 03:08 PM

Put 'Amazing Grace' in a search engine on the web, and you'll even find a version in Scots Gaelic.

'Olney Hymns' was published in 1779. Does anyone know exactly how "Amazing Grace" was given there?

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Shazza
Date: 03 Oct 98 - 07:33 AM

lovely

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 05 Oct 98 - 12:21 PM

Joe, actually we've had a few Amazing Grace marathons, and it can be really amazing. After a dozen or so verses with multiple instruments, do some a cappella, and then one last rousing voice and instrument chorus. Goosebumps.

Hey guys, no fair! I was hoping to get some more verses for MY collection! Doesn't anyone else have any? I've been told that there are many more . . . Maybe some of you could make up some? This could be the folk process on-line.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: dusterjim
Date: 05 Oct 98 - 02:34 PM

There are a total of 17 verses to Amazing Grace. They were listed in a biography of John Newton that I read once, however I am unable to locate the book again (nor did I copy down the verses) Jim

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Bruce O.
Date: 05 Oct 98 - 04:37 PM

For the original six verses of John Newton's "Amazing Grace", in 'Olney Hymns', just CLICK

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: H.Dulcimer
Date: 06 Oct 98 - 12:39 PM

Not another verse, but have you ever sung Amazing Grace to the tune of "The Happy Wanderer?"

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 06 Oct 98 - 06:43 PM

What do you use for the refrain? Val-de-ri, val-de-ra?

Thanks, Bruce!

Here's the only other verse I've heard, Barbara. I hope you appreciate the strain of remembering it for you. Maybe it works best toward the end of a marathon.

Praise God, praise God, praise God, praise God,
Praise God, praise God, praise God,
Praise God, praise God, praise God, praise God,
Praise God, praise God, praise God.

Yuri, spirituals are the religious songs of the black slaves in the U.S. (and maybe blacks shortly after they were freed, also). "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" is definitely in that category. "Amazing Grace" was adopted into it but (as Barbara Shaw noted) can be sung in many other styles too, including mainline Protestant hymn-singing.

You and MotoZulli can find 28 spirituals by searching the database for @spiritual.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Roger Himler
Date: 06 Oct 98 - 07:26 PM

A friend of mine taught me that Amazing Grace could be sung to The House of the Rising Sun. I often perform it that way. It is a wonderful melding of blues and spiritual. I find it helps me to listen to the words and what they mean. The obverse is possible, but it holds no value to me.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 98 - 08:54 PM

Thanks, Jerry! You should rest now. That verse of yours sounds like a marathon all by itself . . . I'm still holding out, though, for the other 3 verses that must still be out there somewhere.

I do like the idea of Amazing Grace to the melody of House of the Rising Sun, as a change. Or maybe, the lyrics of House of the Rising Sun to the tune of Amazing Grace?

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: T in Oklahoma
Date: 19 Aug 99 - 10:24 PM

FYI: When Chad Smith was sworn in last Saturday as Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, one of the songs perfomed as part of the celebration (so the radio report leads me to believe) was "Amazing grace", sung in Cherokee to the usual tune, New Britain.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 12:26 PM

You can also sing it to the theme from "Gilligan's Island." But don't bother trying to keep a straight face.

I'm looking for the origin of the "When we've been there 10,000 years" verse. I'm told it's not John Newton's. Judy Collis sang it, but does anyone happen to know where she got it?

This question came up on the [e-mail] list and has already been bandied about among the experts there (shapenotes and hymnals experts).

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: DougR
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 01:02 PM

I can remember that verse from the Broadman Hymnal over fifty years ago. That's about all I know about it.

DougR

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Walter Corey
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 01:34 PM

The Scottish Psalter version of the 23d Psalm is sung to Amazing Grace

The Lord's my shepherd, I'll not want
He makes me down to lie
In pastures green He leadeth me
The quiet waters by

My soul he doth restore again
& me to walk doth make
Within the paths of rightousness
E'en for His own name's sake

Yea though I walk in death's dark vale
Yet will I fear no ill
For Thou art with me & Thy rod
& staff my comfort still

My table Thou hast furnished
In presence of my foes
My head Thou dost with oil anoint
& my cup overflows

Goodness & mercy all my life
Shall surely follow me
& in God's house forevermore
My dwelling place shall be

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: kimmers
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 04:39 PM

I've heard it (Amazing Grace) sung to the Gilligan's Island theme, as mentioned above. It is indeed quite silly but the kids love it. We did it on the guitar complete with key changes and all; it was a blast.

Now, (warning! thread creep) one of my fellow re-enactors mentioned the other night that you can sing "The Minstrel Boy" to the tune of Gilligan's Island! Horrors!!

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 07:23 PM

Judy Collins got the 10,000 years verse in church. It's been in many hymnals published since 1910. So far as I know the earliest version of Amazing Grace with 10K years with it is in World Renowned Hymns, c1909 the arrangement was done by E.O. Excell. Excell did not write the verse, it is what is called a 'wandering' verse that had been attached as appropriate (or not as the case may be) to other hymns in the 19th century. The first time the words Amazing Grace were paired with the tune most of us know, that should go by the name New Britain, was The Southern Harmony, 1835.

The commentary to end all commentaries on this hymn is in The Hymnal 1982 Companion, (Episcopalian) it was done by Marion Hatchett. I am indebted to his article & some personal correspondence for the above & rest of this information. I've already given the most important.

A discussion on the fasola list a couple of years ago revealed that Hatchett had located the most commonly known version, including the 10,000 years verse as the 4th in a 1910 publication, arranged by E.O. Excell. I own a copy of World Renowned Hymns that I purchased for $0.75. I was pleasantly surprised to discover when I asked about it back then, that I was able to make a small contribution to scholarship on the hymn by changing that date to 1909. Some commentaries, including the Broadman (I think), mention a 1900 arrangement. It is also by Excell, but is slightly different & does not have the 10K verse.

Some books give the Sacred Harp as the source for the 10K verse because it was added to a different Common Meter hymn. My recollection of the commentary is that it has been found much earlier as an added verse to Jerusalem My Happy Home.

Except for the 1909 date, the commentary I mentioned above has all the details along with tracing the various versions of the tune beginning in the 1829. If seeing variant versions of tunes is your thing, it also reproduces 2 different ones found in 1829 Columbia Harmony.

I like that 23rd Psalm version to New Britain. I like Amazing Grace to the Sacred Harp tune Hallelujah & I like the words usually done to Hallelujah to a recently composed tune called Hallelujah New.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Bugsy
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:59 PM

Don't forget the Soccer verse.

"One Nil, One nil, One nil, One nil,
"One Nil, One nil, One nil,
"One Nil, One nil, One nil, One nil,
"One Nil, One nil, One nil.

CHeers

bugsy

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Gypsy
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 09:13 PM

creep...creep...creep...am i the only one who heard it on Prairie Home Companion sung to the tune of the Mickey Mouse Club? Had a dickens of a time at church the following day......

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST,Miriam (was "Guest")
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 11:14 PM

Thanks for reminding me! I did hear the "Mickey Mouse Club" version on PHC!

Thanks everyone for your answers, especially Burke. I could spend every hour of my life on Mudcat list, which is why I mostly stay away.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 11:15 PM

Thanks for reminding me! I did hear the "Mickey Mouse Club" version on PHC!

Thanks everyone for your answers, especially Burke. I could spend every hour of my life on Mudcat list, which is why I mostly stay away.

Miriam ("Guest" because I can't log in)

Subject: Lyr Add: AMAZING GRACE (John Newton)
From:
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 01:14 PM

that's easy

here they are

Amazing grace how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost but now I'm found
was blind But now I see

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear
And grace my fears relieved
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed

Through many dangers toils and snares
We have already come
'Twas grace that brought us safe thus far
And grace will lead us home

We've been there ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we first begun

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From:
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 05:34 PM

The choir at my church sang Amazing Grace to Wimoweh last weekend.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Ringer
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 05:58 AM

JVZ's verse, "Shall I be wafting to the sky...": don't I remember that appearing in Tom Saywer?

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: LR Mole
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 09:23 AM

AND a lot of Emily Dickenson ("Because I could not stop for death..." AND "Casey at the Bat" AND "Old Ironsides" ("Ay, tear her tattered ensign down...") AND "The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner". I just hit the wrong thing so I hope this only shows up once. M-U-D-C-A-T R-U-L-E-S.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 12:22 PM

"Shall I be wafted" is a corruption of the second verse of Isaac Watt's "Am I a soldier of the cross"

Am I a Soldier of the Cross?
A follower of the Lamb,
And shall I fear to own His cause,
Or blush to speak His name?

Must I be carried to the skies
On flowery beds of ease,
While others fought to win the prize,
And sailed through bloody seas?

For Newton's original 6 verses see Olney Hymns Other additional verses from other sources are part of the folk process & fine to sing, just don't say they are Newton's version. Of the 13 verses given by Barbara, the originals are 1,2,3,6,10,11. See my earlier post for 4; 13 is a variant of 11. 5,6,7,8,9 I recognize as verses from other hymns. Mostly by Watts, but I'd have to dig to be sure. Some might be by Newton, just part of different hymns. 12 I've never seen before but it sounds like a newish verse written to go along with the rest of AG.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 14 Dec 01 - 02:46 PM

Here's some additional information I found.

"In an unpublished study of this tune, Marion Hatchett (of the School of Theology, University of the South, Sewanee, Tennessee) provided reproductions of no less than seventeen versions. ... This tune was known not only in a variety of versions but also by a variety of names, and it was associated with a number of texts other than "Amazing Grace" in its early history--Hatchett associated it with seventeen different texts. William Walker, who called this tune NEW BRITAIN, was the first to publish it as a setting for "Amazing Grace" in his Southern Harmony of 1835. Among the texts associated with this tune in Hatchett's study, only Johnson set it to "Alas! And Did My Savior Bleed."" (Andrew W. Johnson's version was published in several books in the 1830's & 1840's with the tune name 'Symphony')

Eskew, Harry. "Andrew W. Johnson's The Eclectic Harmony: A Middle Tunebook in Middle Tennessee." in Notes v. 58 no. 2 (Dec. 2001) p. 291-301.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 14 Dec 01 - 02:50 PM

Of course, this IS one of the tunes used for "While Shepherds Watched" sometimes.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 03:02 AM

Note this post in another "Amazing Grace" thread, and particularly this link.

Liland

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From:
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 06:04 PM

You might find some of the information you see here

Amazing Grace

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 11:59 PM

Er, George Seto etc., you linked back to the selfsame thread. Did you mean to send me or somebody elsewhere, and if so, where?

Haruo [formerly Liland]

Subject: Lyr Add: AMAZING GRACE (John Newton)
From: Genie
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:11 AM

Thanks for that link, Burke.  In case the link to Olney Hymns disappears (as some other of the above links have), here are the six original verses to John Newton's poem, as published in the Olney Hmnal:

Amazing Grace 
from Olney Hymns 1779  Lyrics: John Newton

Amazing grace! (how sweet the sound)
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, hut now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed!

Through many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
'Tis grace has brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me,
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, who called me here below,
Will be for ever mine.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:26 AM

I'm not sure how reliable the ccel's Olney hymns are as to the minutiae and accidentals. For example, I strongly suspect that "hut" in v.1 l.3 was originally "but", and I'm inclined to think the capitalization scheme in my copy (http://www.geocities.com/cigneto/thctxt/en/amazinggr1.html) is closer to the original than theirs. However, I have a hunch their v.6 is more original than mine. I think my version's "hath" (v.3 l.3) and "Yea" (v.5 l.1) may be later archaizing rather than original, but I'd want to look at an actual "hard-copy" Olney Hymns before putting any money on it.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 11:13 AM

In April, I heard the Blind Boys of Alabama do Amazing Grace to the House of the Rising Sun Melody and was inspired to meld the two. It always feels powerful and gets a good response when I do it. Generally, as soon as the audience 'gets' the verse, they tend to join in. It sounds a bit ragged, as they are not used to the meter, but it works well.

Amazing Grace/Rising Sun E. Russell, April, 2002 Melody: House of the Rising Sun, two beats at a time, slowly, as though having trouble getting it out.

There is...a house...in New...Orleans, They call...the Ri...sing Sun; It's been...the ruin...of many...a poor lad... And God,... I know...I'm one.

My father...was...a gamb...lin' man, He lived...for Jacks...and Queens; My mother...was...a seam...stress, Sir, She sewed...my new...blue jeans.

Ama...zing Grace, how sweet...the sound That saved...a wretch..like me; I once...was lost..but now...I'm found, Was blind...but now...I see.

'Twas Grace...that taught...my heart...to fear And Grace...that fear...relieved How pre...cious did...that Grace...appear The hour...I first...believed.

Through many...dangers,...toils...and snares I have...already...come; 'Twas Grace...has brought...me safe...thus far And Grace...will bring...me home.

I'm go...ing back...to New...Orleans, My race...is al...most run; I'll spend...my nights...a-seek...ing Grace In the...House...of the Ri...sing Sun.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: rich-joy
Date: 15 Sep 02 - 04:01 AM

I found an article in a "Life Spirit" magazine a few years back, that suggested we reconsider the appropriateness of the words of "Amazing Grace" in these "enlightened" times and suggested the following hymn to the same tune (which, after all, almost everyone loves ...)
From the "Spiritualist's National Union" hymnbook, UK ...

IMMORTAL LOVE

Immortal love, forever full
Forever flowing free
Forever shared, forever whole
A never-ebbing sea.

Blow winds of God, awake and blow
The mists of earth away
Shine out, O light devine, and show
The realm of perfect day

The letter fails, the systems fall
And every symbol wanes
The spirit over-brooding all
Eternal Love remains.

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 04:07 PM

I just added a Gaelic version of "Amazing Grace" to my online hymnal: Miorbhail Gràis. Have not been able to find an attribution regarding the translator, but if it was in Gaelic I might not recognize it. And I added a link to Jean Ritchie's Old Regular Baptist tune MIDI, for those who may just be plain ol' tired of New Britain.

Lìolaind/Haruo (ex-Liland)

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 07:03 PM

That's why English psalm & hymn singing traditionally named tunes independently of the words just because this interchanging of words and tunes was expected until relatively recently. In that earlier post I mentioned different 19th century version with different tune names.

One of those is Solon. You can find it at the Harmonia Sacra site. It's in an Adobe file on the bottom of p. 109. Here's the link direct to the Adobe file of p.101-100 Melody is in the tenor line.

I probably shouldn't include it in this message, but Hernando's Hideaway works as well.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 10:56 PM

Ah, well, Burke, "HTTP1.1 STATUS 403 Remote Access to this object forbidden This file cannot be directly accessed from a remote site, but must be linked through the Brinkster Member's site."... I appreciate the thought, though.

Practically any CM tune'll do... ;-)

Haruo

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 10:20 AM

The 2nd URL direct to the PDF doesn't work, but the instructions with the first one should. Just go there & follow the link to p.101-110.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Sep 02 - 12:44 AM

Got it. Thanks,

Haruo

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST,steve
Date: 14 Oct 02 - 04:50 AM

Anyone wanting to know more about 'Amazing Grace' should definitely get a copy of my book AMAZING GRACE:THE STORY OF AMERICA's MOST BELOVED SONG to be published by Ecco/HarperCollins on November 5 2002.
steve Turner

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: masato sakurai
Date: 14 Oct 02 - 06:54 AM

Steve, I'll order the book.
~Masato

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: 53
Date: 14 Oct 02 - 10:20 AM

One of the first songs that I learned to play on the guitar.