Subject: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Mr Red Date: 03 Aug 05 - 05:27 PM I have a small bet with myself on how fast this answer will come. Don't disappoint me 'Catters |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Peace Date: 03 Aug 05 - 05:28 PM Jimmie Miller. |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: radriano Date: 03 Aug 05 - 05:36 PM There's no need to wait if you do a search for "Ewan MacColl" yourself - chances are you'll find the answer you seek. |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Bill D Date: 03 Aug 05 - 05:43 PM his mother was Betsy Miller |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 03 Aug 05 - 05:46 PM Presumably the name on his birth certificate, which would be his "real name", was JAMES Miller. Or it could have been Jimmie Miller. Or Jimmy Miller even ... |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Le Scaramouche Date: 03 Aug 05 - 05:46 PM Wasn't it with an 'a'? |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 03 Aug 05 - 05:54 PM Ewen MacVicar...no wait! Ed Miller...no wait, it's on the tip of my tongue...Mike Seeger! Yeah, that's it! Mike Seeger! No, no! wait!! Kirsty...no, that's not it either. I give up...what was it? Seamus |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 03 Aug 05 - 05:56 PM I see you are in jocular vein tonight Seamus *G* |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Peace Date: 03 Aug 05 - 05:56 PM It was Fred. Fred Swagrundian. But his friends called him Joe. |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: PoppaGator Date: 03 Aug 05 - 06:16 PM His name was McGill And he called himself Lil But everyone knew him as Nancy |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: PoppaGator Date: 03 Aug 05 - 06:17 PM Seriously now ~ the above was just-kidding Wasn't his original name Robert Zimmerman? |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: GUEST Date: 03 Aug 05 - 06:28 PM Or maybe Elliott Adnopoz? |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 03 Aug 05 - 06:32 PM I thought it was Alex Campbell. |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Bill D Date: 03 Aug 05 - 07:12 PM Ewan & Betsy |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Deckman Date: 03 Aug 05 - 07:27 PM Milivoy Slypitch? |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Brakn Date: 03 Aug 05 - 07:28 PM and? |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Peace Date: 03 Aug 05 - 07:29 PM Ardlow Cornfrisker, III |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 03 Aug 05 - 07:31 PM Gordon Bennett... |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Brakn Date: 03 Aug 05 - 07:33 PM Shit thread..... scrub it. Everybody knows. Sory i'm drunk |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Deckman Date: 03 Aug 05 - 07:56 PM With ALL due respect to Milivoy Slypitch, and his family! This was a real person and I met him when I was 16. He was Serbian. And he was a childhood friend of my father. I met him in 1953. CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 04 Aug 05 - 01:51 AM Murray, how astute of you to notice my jocularity..I was being silly. I thought everyone knew it was Spartacus. Seamus |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Dave Hanson Date: 04 Aug 05 - 02:54 AM Ewan MACCOLL ffs, not McColl, real name as already said Jimmy Miller. eric |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Paul Burke Date: 04 Aug 05 - 03:51 AM OK, then, what was Giant Haystacks' real name? |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Paco Rabanne Date: 04 Aug 05 - 05:20 AM Shirley Crabtree! |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 04 Aug 05 - 05:21 AM Dunno - But Big Daddy was Shirley Crabtree - Brother of the wrestling announcer, Brian Crabtree. and my real name is unpronoucable in your human tongue... :D |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 04 Aug 05 - 05:24 AM Sorry Ted - No cigar this time:0 Haystacks was Martin Ruane. Used to play on the darts team for the Man and Scythe (now demolished) in Kearsley btw. It was a real wrestlers pub owned by 'Rollerball Rocco's' dad. Huge blokes on the darts team. Dodn't loose often;-) DtG |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Paco Rabanne Date: 04 Aug 05 - 05:33 AM Rats! You are right Dave. |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Paul Burke Date: 04 Aug 05 - 06:21 AM My Dad taught a couple of the Ruanes at St. Lawrence's Secondary Mod in Salford. Wonderful lads, he said, and no one ever caned them. Martin and his brothers often used to come to the Exile of Erin off Oldham Road, Manchester, for the sessions in the early 70s. He used to sit quietly, a half pint of bottled Guinness in his hand, looking like a child with a dolls-house teacup. I only knew him to use his 'presence' once- after one of the IRA bombs, when some local thickos decided to do over the Paddies. When they came storming in, shouting the odds, he just stood up, slowly... he never seemed to stop rising... the would-be vigilantes paused, made their apologies to the landlady, and left, quickly and quietly. IIRC that was before he started his wrestling career. I think he and his brothers used to carry bulldozers round on the M62 building site. |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: GUEST,Mr Red - suitably rewarded. Date: 04 Aug 05 - 09:56 AM From the blickie Ewan MacColl was born in Salford and named James by his parents OK pedantry aside but NOTE THE LOWER CASE! Searches for Ewan McColl & Webb produced nothing, to narrow the search you have to know the answer & wade (and know the spelling!!!!). I think the 1 minute answer was about in my bet range, I owe myself a drink. Cheers FWIW I know he put in one of his "folk" song books the attribution to several songs "From the singing of ...... " Which I now know to be "Jimmy(ie) Miller" |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Dave Sutherland Date: 04 Aug 05 - 02:20 PM Wasn't Rollerball Rocco's father Jumping Jim Hussey? And the other guy's real name was Mr MacColl! |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Little Robyn Date: 04 Aug 05 - 03:30 PM I love the picture with Betsy. Now, wasn't she a MacColl? Robyn |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Cool Beans Date: 04 Aug 05 - 03:38 PM Declan McManus |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: GUEST,TS Date: 04 Aug 05 - 05:21 PM Betsy's maiden name was Hendry. Wasn't the origional Ewan MacColl an 18C man of letters. TS |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 04 Aug 05 - 07:45 PM Get Peggy in here. I've heard she had several choice names for him!! Art ;-) |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 05 Aug 05 - 03:44 AM sometimes referred to as anon. and trad. |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: mindblaster Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:07 AM He was a northerner who pretended to be scotch, Changed his name to add some sort of perverted authenticity to his claim to be a folk songwriter. What the charlatan actually did was collect other people's material and claim them as his. He stole my grandfather's "Dirty Od Town" and didn't pay him a penny. I remember hearing "First Time Ever I saw Your Face" sung by a busker in Leicester Square back in the '40s just after the war. |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Le Scaramouche Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:55 AM He was a Scot (Scotch is a drink, or egg) born in Salford. The reason he changed his name are well covered in previous threads and I think we would all love to see some documentation of those claims. |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Dave Hanson Date: 05 Aug 05 - 06:05 AM How many feckin times do you need telling, Ewan was born in Salford, his parents were William and Betsy Miller, both expatriot Scots, he was christened Jimmy. In common with others in the ' Lallans ' movement he adopted the name of a 19th century minor Scots poet, in his case Ewan MacColl. One of the others was Christopher Grieve, who took the name Hugh McDiarmid. END OF. eric |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: mindblaster Date: 05 Aug 05 - 06:09 AM He was a poof! |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Jim McLean Date: 05 Aug 05 - 07:32 AM I remember Alex Campbell talking about working down a mine. 'There Ah wis, hewin' ma coal...' |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: John Routledge Date: 05 Aug 05 - 08:49 AM Jim can we put your quote down for Mudcat Joke of 2005 :0) |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Snuffy Date: 05 Aug 05 - 09:09 AM Didn't Bernard Cribbins sing that? |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Dave Hanson Date: 05 Aug 05 - 09:59 AM Right said fred. eric |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Jim McLean Date: 05 Aug 05 - 10:02 AM Be my guest, John. |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: GUEST,Fidjit Date: 05 Aug 05 - 03:29 PM Ewan (Jimmy Brown? (I thought)) pinched Peggy Seeger from Alex Cambell |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Jim McLean Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:22 PM It's all been posted before, Fidjit. Alex married Peggy so that she could ener the UK to marry McColl. Alex, myself and Nigel Denver drank the cheque McColl gave to Alex several times over! |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: GUEST,Frankham Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:46 PM His name was Jimmy Adnapoz Zimmerman Miller and I refer you to the old folksong from the Forties, "There's No Business Like Show Business". Shakespeare was probably wrong. Everything is in a name. And as for the epithet "charlatan" if it were to be generally applied to those in folk music, a lot of people would be held to judgement. I know a few folks who put their name on the copyright of tunes that they may not have written themselves. 500 Miles, There's A Meeting Here Tonight, Tom Dooley,(does anyone really believe Frank Profitt wrote it?), You Are My Sunshine and others. This would make an interesting thread. Don't know what Ewan wrote or didn't but he was a great balladeer and should be recognized and honored for such. And a great showman. I think he did write Springhill Mine Disaster, and Go Down You Murderers. Did he write Shoals of Herring? Or was it adapted? You'd have to say the same for old John Jacob Niles who didn't write "Black is the Color of My True Love's Hair" lyrics but probably adapted or created the tune he sang. Jean Ritchie never sued Dylan for the tune of Masters of War but it would be hard to do because Nottamun Town was traditional. Did Paul Simon steal Scarborough Fair from Davy Graham? Or did he create a Canticle? See, it gets hairy. Then there's Dylan who took tunes from tradition as did Woody, Leadbelly (Kisses Sweeter Than Wine) and rewrites of Irish tunes such as Patriot's Game. Igor Stravinsky said something to the effect of why plagarize tunes when you can steal them outright? Frank Hamilton |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Le Scaramouche Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:54 PM Martin Carthy, not Davey Graham. |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Susanne (skw) Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:58 PM Jim, do you mean Ewan gave Alex the cheque several times over? :) Mentions of his generosity have been few and far between so far (at least in financial terms, where he probably didn't have much to be generous with). Anyway, I've just checked out Ewan's pages in the Working Class Movement Library (reached via Bill D.'s link above), and they're great. |
Subject: RE: Ewan McColl - real name? From: Jim McLean Date: 05 Aug 05 - 06:07 PM Susanne, Ewan wrote Alex a couple of cheques, not out of generosity, but because Alex (et al) drank them before Alex delivered the goods, i.e. divorce. |
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