BS: KatrinaGate

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: PoppaGator
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:10 PM

There's so much wrong-headed stuff going on hereabouts, Bob, that I'm not sure just which dumbass rules you refer to.

The worst of all the federal rules are those which forbid FEMA to provide funding for repairing or building permanent housing, only for temporary lodging (rent payment, hotel bills).

I can see how this was originally intended, to prevent pork-barrel-type profiteering by building contractors, and also as a measure against favoritism for property owners as opposed to renters, but in a situation where so very much of a region's housing stock has been badly damaged, and where recovery is so certain to take years rather than months, it leads to incredible waste.

People were stuck in motel rooms for months and months, unable to cook and forced to spend money they didn't have on eating out. Meanwhile, houses that could be undergoing repair sat festering and falling into worse and worse condition every day.

Nothing "Jim Crow" about that, not even unintentionally. If more black folks than white are affected, it's only because more than half the population of New Orleans is of African descent (and, or course, an even higher percentage of the poor ~ not a surprise and not unlike any other American city, although probably less so.)

Not all the poor are black, however, and not all the blacks are poor. We have a very large black middle class and upper-middle class population ~ including the political ruling class ~ and of course there are also plenty of white folks of modest means. No one is exempt from the suffering

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:34 PM

The one I was refering to, P-Gator, has something to do with not being able to rent unless you have blood releatives who once owned or rented in that area...

Ya' heard of that one???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:09 AM

"if you vote Dem and the Derms take back either house of Congress, yer gonna find out that what I've been able to get against the boy wil pale in comparision to what the Congressional comittee, with supena powers, will get"

Will somebody fill me in on what the Derms have done to punish GWB for his clusterfuck?

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:12 AM

51/49 ain't gonna punish anyone as long as it takes 60 votes to cut off a fillibuster... PoliSci 101...

BTW, P-Gator... I understand that a N.O.landlord was jailed for renting to some black folks and ended up putting them out as a condition of his sentence... I'm in SC on vacation so I don't have access to my files but when I get home I'll reread that article and thrown some facts of the case at ya'...


Meanwhile, I reckon we'll see just what level of "protection" the American people have from the losses from Ike... Outta be an eye-opener...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:33 AM

Would somebody fill me in on what, in regards to Bush and Katrina, was filibustered?

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:41 PM

Read yer own posts, Sawz... You asked what the Dems have done to make Bush pay for his clusterf*cks and I pointed out that there is little the Dems can do with only a 51/49 majority in the Senate...

Purdy simple to figure out...

It ain't been the Dems on the fillibusterin' side of late... It's been the threats from the Repbs...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:38 PM

A local politician in suburban St. Bernard Parish ~ predominantly working-class and almost entirely white ~ proposed an ordinance outlawing the conversion of homes that were owner-occupied before Katrina into rental property, with the only exceptions allowed being rental within the owner's family.

There was a lot of controversy, public discussion, etc., much of it on racial themes ~ that the motive was to exclude black renters from the parish. I'm sure that a degree of racism was a factor, especially unconscious racism, but it was not the primary motivation.

In any event, the proposed ordinance did not pass.

There were out-of-state real estate speculators buying up properties in badly-flooded St. Bernard really cheap in the aftermath of the storm. The relatively few people who had returned to fix up and reoccupy their homes and their communities ~ which had always, since they were built in the late 1940s, been composed of homeowners ~ were understandably concerned about half the properties on each of their blocks being bought up for development by investors living in Florida.

St. Bernard is just "below" (downriver from) and adjacent to the lower 9th ward, is in the same flood "basin" at an even lower elevation, and had many more properties sitting in much deeper water. The lower 9 gets a lot of public attention, deservedly enough, for a number of reasons:
~ The area immediately next to the Industrial Canal level-break was hit by a huge, explosive, fast-moving wall of water that blew houses off their foundations, turned cars and trucks upside-down, and generally created the most amazing photo ops of the whole disaster.
~ The Lower 9th is (or was) the entire nation's leading neighborhood in terms of black home-ownership, while at the same time being a very poverty-stricvken area. Almost every home in the area was inherited by its occupants, and many were built "by hand" by the father or grandfather.

St. Bernard was arguably more throughly damaged than any part of New Orleans, but is more generally "forgotten" by the media and the outside world, and the citizens have a bit of a chip on their collective shoulder.

******************************

I've heard nothing about a landlord in New Orleans being thrown in jail for renting to anyone, black or white. Some of them probaly should be thrown in jail for jacking up their rents and evicting long-time residents so they can get their new higher prices from newcomers.

These are instances where relatively affluent people (those who own multiple properties) are taking advantage of the less fortunate, but it has nothing to do with race. In fact, most landlords in New Orleans are African-American, just as most people, and almost all elected officials, are black.

Also, most landlords in New Orleans, white and black alike, are pretty small-time capitalists who inherited their houses ~ could never have afforded to buy more than one home ~ and in very many cases only own one structure, living in one half of a double (two-family house) while renting out the other side.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 10:37 PM

So I assume that the "Congressional comittee, with supena powers" got nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:45 AM

Tell me what good supena powers are when the Bush administration thinks they are invitations to be accepted or ignored???

Yo, P-Gator... Just a few more days of vacation and I'll be "back on the farm"... (Rememeber it??? Well, it's changed alot since you were there...) I'll reread my material and throw some of it into the mix here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:48 PM

OK. Folks voted Dem and the Derms took back either house of Congress, but no subpoenas, no filibusters and nothing "gotten" on the Boy.

Got it. Next prediction?

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 07:21 AM

Yeah, I predict that Sawz will soon either starve to death in the "Pointless Forest" or find someone elses heels to nip at her in Mudville... Or both...

BTW, Howz the new 'n improved FEMA doing in Texas??? How did that National Response Plan work out??? Hmmmmmm???

Where's Brownie???

Where's Elmo???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 10:21 AM

Noe that you mention FEMA, how did FEMA get to be part of DHS?

Who demanded that?

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 01:32 PM

FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, was established in 1979 under President Jimmy Carter, a consolidation of functions performed by a number of Federal agencies.
In response to the attacks of September 11, 2001, Congress passed the Homeland Security Act of 2002, and FEMA was absorbed into the new Department of Homeland Security in 2003.

I did security clearance investigations on FEMA disaster workers for a number of years, and I was very impressed by the caliber of employee FEMA was able to hire for temporary jobs. I'd guess most FEMA workers stayed at a disaster site for two or three months, but some were around for 6 months. Many were retired experts from a variety of professions, particularly the building trades and building insprection, and engineering. They really enjoyed their work and were very enthusiastic about wanting to help people recover from disasters. They were creative, interesting people - and they had a lot of good stories to tell.

A parallel agency was the Disaster Branch of the Small Business Administration, which processed low-interest recovery loans for victims of disasters (FEMA workers arrived first and gave grants for short term needs, and SBA came later and handled loans for the long-term needs of recovery). I also did clearances for SBA - SBA people tended to be younger, attorneys and people who had come from the banking industry. I lived with two SBA disaster workers for about 15 months in 1992-93. One was an attorney - he spent about a year in Hawaii and Guam after Hurricane Iniki. The other had been a business specialist with Dun & Bradstreet - she spent a good amount of time in Guam. I think the FEMA people had more interesting jobs, since they were more closely involved with immediate recovery after a disaster. The SBA people did a lot of paperwork.

I retired in 1999 and quit part-time work in the summer of 2001, so I don't know what's happened to these programs since the establishment of the Department of Homeland Secruity. I don't think absorption into DHS is a bad idea, since it gives disaster relief representation on the Cabinet. However, I get the impression the entire federal bureaucracy has been in a demoralized state under the Bush Administration. Bush has poured all resources into Defense, and everything else has been on the back burner since 2002.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 12:50 PM

Here's the Bush/McCain plan. Get rid of New Orleans and replace it with condominiums
and gambling casinos.

That way you eliminate the "sinful" New Orleans and replace it with a "morally acceptable"
alternative.

FEMA can help in this endeavor by doing nothing and letting "god's will" take its course.

Put those recalcitrant victims in barbed wire compounds or cheap trailers and subject them to chemical poisoning.

Let Blackwater patrol the streets.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Oct 08 - 11:53 PM

FEMA Says State Must Pay $30 Million

Louisiana officials are stumped. Do officials in our Office of Homeland Security owe the federal government more than 30 million dollars? The feds sent the bill Wednesday for money paid out in the form of grants for a federal flood buyout program. Three former Louisiana Homeland Security employees who oversaw the program are currently under federal indictment.

The state says we don't owe the money back. But they say if we do, the individual parishes the grants went to will have to pay back the money.

Mark Smith, Dept. of Homeland Security said, "Would I call it a public relations nightmare? Yes."

It was just a matter of time before the bill was sent to the state following its handling of federal FEMA flood buyout monies. The government says more than 30 million was misspent by the state through the Office of Emergency Preparedness between 1997 and 2002. Three former high level employees of the office are under federal indictment for charges related to the handling of those FEMA funds.

"Really its not that the money was misspent here or the money was misspent there," says Smith. "It's going to be, in a lot of the cases, a matter of improper paperwork."

According to the letter, the Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Office of Emergency Preparedness failed to properly assess project eligibility, rank properties consistently with state priorities, and verify that projects met the criteria for priority funding.

"We'll have to look at each individual parish and possibly go back to them for money."

According to Joanne Moreau, Director of the East Baton Rouge Parish Homeland Security, East Baton Rouge will be asked to pony up 3.6 million dollars. Moreau says she has requested documentation from the state to prove what they owe.

East Baton Rouge Parish applied for their own grants and did not enlist the help of private companies like Aegis Innovative Solutions. Aegis contracted with many of the parishes who will be asked to pay back the money. Aegis is owned by former Office of Emergency Preparedness employees.

Moreau says she believes the letter from FEMA clearly asks the state to re-pay that money. In other words, it's a state issue and not a parish by parish issue. We also asked the state Homeland Security Office to show us the documentation the federal government used to come up with that 30 million dollar figure. They agreed to show us, but not until Thursday.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 10:46 AM

How many dead bodies from Katrina were found?

It seems like that number is a national secret.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 04:47 PM

Yer right, Strings....

New Orleans has been conducting "ethnic cleansing" since Katrina... Laws have been enacted to keep blacks from inhabiting certain neighborhods one one hand while others are being arresting and held up to 90 days without hearings...

It is disgracefull... What is equally disgracefulll is that the media couldn't care less about reporting what is going on in New Orleans...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:45 PM

Well Well Well Bobert.

Did you check out the levees in N.O. while you was there to see if Obama has them up to snuff?

With all your fair mindedness, I sure wouldn't want you to have to attack him for not fixing something he inherited.

I seen him campaigning down there with his coat off and everything making his election promises about how he is going to swing into action like the Taz as soon as he gets elected.

Speakin' of Katrina, Here is a Progressive and a Greenie presidential candidate that has quite a tale to tell about Katrina:

Cynthia McKinney said during a public press conference is that a mother contacted her in 2005. The woman's son purportedly had job with the Department of Defense and processed the bodies of 5,000 people who died from a single bullet wound to the head, and later dumped in a swamp in Louisiana.

This man reportedly signed an agreement of silence to never discuss any of this, and further, the data about these murdered individuals was entered into Pentagon computers.

McKinney said she has verification of the alleged crime by insiders at the Red Cross who wish to remain anonymous.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:03 PM

Oh yeah... I checked 'um out... Purdy cool system but cooler than that was New Orleans itself... The Garden District is the "shits"... I mean, awesomely nice gardens and beautiful, yet electric, achitecture... The bridge oveb Lake Poncitraine leading to the North Shore was something to behold... That thing must be close to 15 miles long... The street musicans were a hoot... I got to meet up with Blind Troy and jammed with this drummer in another part of the French Quarter...

It's a real shame that George Bush was blowin' so much smoke up America's ass after 9/11 about being ready for the next disaster... I mean, I don't blame Bush for Katrina or the flooding but his National Response Plan was junk...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:26 PM

Oh, I almost forgot a couple of things...

First, don't get the BBQ'd shrimp anywhere 'cause it's like in this soupy hot sauce with the shells on... Very messy but that's they way them New Aww'leens folk like 'um...

Second of all, had a nice talk with one of the editorial writers on the Times-Picayune about Katrina and he was very appreciative of some of the comments I made to him...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 09:54 PM

BTW, on my way to New Aww'leens I passed an area in Mississippi (maybe Alabama) right next to the interstae where all the FEMA traiolers are being stored... It was an awesome site... Thousands of them lined up... I was thinking, "Hmmmmmm, that represents alot of money... Too bad that they were filled with toxins and unsafe and too bad that the Bush administration didn't take the time to be sure that, even tho it was way too late, to be sure that the federal government wasn't getting fleeced..."

But fleecing governments is what George cut his teeth on... Hell, he bungled everything he touched until he and a bunch of lawyers, accountants and crooks fleeced Arlington, Texas... Then Geiorge went a step further and fleeced the IRS??? Danged, son!!! That is some serouss fleecin'...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 12:47 PM

Bobert:

The one and only question was how are the levees.

Instead of an honest answer I get an anti Bush hate speech.

First you say GWB took too long and then you say he didn't take the time.

Why was there toxins in those trailers?

Who shot those 5000 people in the head?

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 01:02 PM

Ya know, Sawzer, it's a darned shame that neither Bobert nor I are willing to kowtow to your imperious interrogatories. We just don't answer up like good Charlie McCarthy types oughter. Dang. Maybe it's that "freedom of speech" gene which includes the freedom NOT to speak to snide antagonisms.


A

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 01:33 PM

Who do you think was responsible for those people being shot in the head, Sawzaw? Are you going to try to blame it on Obama? Keep in mind that the federal government appears to have had at least some involvement in what happened to those people, and also the fact that it was George W Bush who was president at the time (or Dick Cheney).

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 01:35 PM

And while we're at it, are you trying to blame the toxins in the trailers on Obama, too? GW Bush was president during Hurricane Katrina, not Barack Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:25 PM

I'm amazed that this thread is still alive; and kinda glad too.

Despite some very transparent efforts to hush things up, it has become pretty well documented that the Army Corps of Engineers had, for years, fallen short in designing the levee system and ~ more significantly ~ in assuring that the existing designs were executed properly by the contractors they hired. Unfortunately, some elements within the Corps continue to spend their time and our money on trying to excuse and/or cover-up past transgressions rather than to work at fixing thimgs for the next storm. Also, for years and years, Congress (both parties) has refused to fully fund flood-protection proposals for this area.

On the other hand, the repaired floodwalls on the Industriasl Canal held up during Hurricain Gustav a couple of years ago, under conditions very similar to those under which they caved during and immediately after Katrina. Also, the vast majority of the people working at Corps HQ in New Orleans live here and have an obvious vested interest in getting it right, finally.

I have no doubt that some cops were so freaked by the surreal conditions of that first week after the flood that they killed a number of innocent people. An especially notorious bunch are just now finally being brought to trial for the killings at the Danzinger Bridge. But I don't for a minute believe that urban legend bullshit about 5,000 indidviduals all vicitmized by the same kind of headshot. And even if true, that would have nothing at all to do with one or the other Presidential administration or political party.

Anyone interested in the truth, and in reasonable discussion of these issues, should check out:

www.levees.org.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:45 PM

Hmmmmmmm??? Let's see... How many folks died during Katrina??? 2000??? 1800??? And of those 1800 to 2000, 5000 were shot in the head???? Hmmmmm??? Better talk "Math 101" with "Critical Thinking 101", Swaz...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:06 PM

McKinney is saying they were probably prisoners, and that this information was entered in a Pentagon database. I don't know if I would dismiss it out of hand. I think more investigation might not be a bad idea.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 02:03 AM

Bobert response to someone who wouldn't answer his questions:

Apr 08 - 2008

"Well, then why won't you friggin' answer my questions with anything but BS questions??? What do you have to hide???"

"She absolutely refuses to answer straight up questions... She runs like "pigs from a gun" and then plays her little games by not answering the questions but rather ask a multitude of meaningless rhetorical questions of her own"

"All I can see is someone filled with hate who won't come clean"

Also this proves he can type perfectly when he wants to. It is just his little cute game to type like an idiot.

The toxins are in all those types of trailers, not just the ones bought under the Bush administration but Bobert wants it to look like Bush caused the toxins to be there.

Amos's feelings are hurt cause I found two big ass, dumb ass mistakes in his frantic postings and his supreme being status is now tarnished.

CC is pissed cause her beloved ACORN went down the tubes because of internal wrongdoing and mismanagement. Now she's got her claws out itchin' for a fight.

Bobert don't want to respond to McKinney's fairy tale because it might expose his Green Party as being a bunch of nuts.

I never said anybody was shot in the head. That was McKinney.

I am glad Poppagator has his head on straight and looking for the truth.

People should be looking for the truth, admitting their mistakes and quit this stupid ass he's all good or all bad tribal mentality.

The world is not going to get any better until people quit looking for scapegoats and demons to blame everything on.

Sure Bush screwed up, Brownie screwed up, Nagin screwed up, Blanco screwed up. Who did their job perfectly or even passably?

NO has plenty of corruption to go around. My Daughter was married there in the Garden District. She went to Loyola.

I know something about the place and I know it was an accident waiting to happen with crooked politics like any city. They played games with money for the levees.

If any improvements are to be made in the situation we would have to sort out all the screw ups and take steps to prevent them from happening again.

Right now it is a race to see which politician can make the most promises and send the most money to insure their re election. And where does the money go? Mostley down a rat hole.

Oh you poor people, so and so fucked you over so bad, I am going to fix it.

Yeah, The Big Easy.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 08:38 AM

Yo, p-gator... Are you familiar with Jarvis DeBerry of the "Times-Piiayune"??? Nice guy and purdy danged smart, too...

BTW, Slawz... Any post of yours that begins with accusatory language doesn't get read by me... And I would guess just about everyone else so... Knock yerself out spending hours putting together these bill-of-particular-attacks 'cuase it's your right... Just thought you'd like to know in case you have anything else to do with yer life but obsess on me... But believe me, people are shooting right past yer posts like it was a radiation pit...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 10:12 AM

Oh really, Sawzaw? You think I only became an activist after ACORN was closed down? You're not very observant.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 10:29 AM

Ignore him, Carol... He adds nothing to any discussion... He is a troll and only into attacking people from the safety of cyberworld...
But you are correct in yer assessment that he doesn't really have a clue what people have done in their lives...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 11:35 AM

The accusatory language was yours Bobert.

Bobert runs like "pigs from a gun".

He makes all kinds of ad hominem attacks on people that won't answer his straight up questions but weasels out when it is his turn.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 11:41 AM

"You think I only became an activist after ACORN was closed down? "

No I don't.

"But I don't for a minute believe that urban legend bullshit about 5,000 individuals all victimized by the same kind of headshot."

Bravo Poppagator. Let's see if some others can break their code of silence.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 03:37 PM

Thanks for the shout-out, Sawz. But before anyone gets the idea that you and I are completely "on the same page," let me hasten to defend my friends at ACORN.

That bullshit trumped-up "documentary" video was a complete sham. That punk college-boy filmmaker brought his girlfriend into those offices with a story that she used to be a prostitiute, and that he was making it his personal mission to save her from her pimp(s), or whatever. Now, when confronted with this story, some of the ACORN workers may have given advice that stretched the law a little bit here and there, while of course most of them (not included in the final cut, of course) kept things strictly legal. But the falsehood that the ACORN folks were responding to a couple intent upon setting up a whorehouse operation ~ that was ALL fabricated in the editing room.

This has all been verified and, for what it's worth, published. Of course, retractions never get nearly the widespread publicity as the original lies that need to be retracted. And meanwhile, the Faux-News propaganda machine has been so successful in turning "ACORN" into a dirty word that no one, including a whole passel of chickenshit Democrats who should know better, would come to their defense.

Since then, young Mr. Hotshot Rightwing Filmmaker has been busted breaking into Senator Landrieu's office with some new chicanery in mind. The latest news is that he's getting off with a plea bargain, so the whole story will never come out in court.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 05:23 PM

Yeah, p-gator...When the FBI pulls off one of these it's called a sting... When private citizens pull one of these things off it is called vigilante... You know, the same thing they called the mobs who got together to lynch black men during the Jim Crow days...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 09:59 AM

My understanding is that they waked in during normal business hours. Do you call that "breaking into"? Was anything broken?

I do think they went over the line though.

I'll Bet we are on the same page on this.

Acorn did some good work. Paying taxes wasn't one of them. Always telling people to tell the truth wasn't one of them.

I keep saying over and over to no avail to the all bad all good crowd:

People have to be able to recognize the good in anybody as well as the bad.

I mean, Damn, even rattlesnakes have some uses.

But there again. Bobert has managed to bring his bogotry, racism and hatred into the discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 05:43 PM

Hah! Crawfish and Californicated Zydeco? Yes indeed!

I have no doubt that some ACORN employees, moved by a much more sympathetic bullshit story than the one we were originally been given to believe, may indeed have advised a young man purportedly trying to "save" a young girl from exploitation to stretch the law a bit to achieve his "praiseworthy" goal.

It's certainly not unknown for folks of ALL economic classes to "work the system" to their best advantage.

When poor folks who genuinely deserve (x) amount of food stamps can find a way to get (1.2 x) dollars worth, it IS technically illegal, but so what?.

Some of their loudest critics, of course, hire high-priced accoutnants every April to make sure that when they genuinely owe (y) dollars in taxes, they only pay (1/10 y), or less, or nothing. Of course, hardly anyone ever condemns them for that (not even me, usually).

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 07:34 PM

Bug off, Squalkz.. My bigotry and racism??? Hey, I ain't the one defending the racist and bigots... You are... The Republican Party itself is a bigoted and racist party... That's why very few blacks folks want any part of it... You party fought agasinst civil right...

Hatred??? Yeah, add I hate hypocrits and liars to the list...

Yer right, P-gator... The rich only pay as much tax as they want... I know of an accountant who asks his clients "How much do you wnat to pay this year, Ralph???" Then he makes the tex return work out that way thru loans and other trickery... I used him one year... Played it straight up... Coulda payed less... Didn't matter... It's what I owed... Just needed him to help straighten out some difficukt stuff... But I didn't take the *dodge* after he expalined it to me... Just didn't seem right even if it was legal...

BTW, P-gator... Do you know that op-ed guy I asked you about at the N.O. T-Pic???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Apr 10 - 01:56 AM

The Pelican Institute's Steve Beatty reports that the federal government just filed a new $548,000 lien against ACORN for unpaid payroll taxes. This comes at the same time as Louisiana Attorney General Buddy Caldwell investigates the group for unpaid state payroll taxes.

According to Beatty, his adds to the existing tax debt of more than $1 million.

Read more

Republicans passed the civil rights bills of

Civil Rights Act of 1866, extending the rights of emancipated slaves
Civil Rights Act of 1871, also known as the Ku Klux Klan Act
Civil Rights Act of 1875, prohibiting discrimination in "public accommodations"; found unconstitutional in 1883
Civil Rights Act of 1957, establishing the Civil Rights Commission
Civil Rights Act of 1960, establishing federal inspection of local voter registration polls
Civil Rights Act of 1964, prohibiting discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, and national origin by federal and state governments as well as some public places

While racists like Byrd fillibustered them.

More evidence of Bobert's racism and bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 Apr 10 - 02:05 PM

No one is going to argue against the Party of Lincoln, or even that of Eisenhower. But a whole lot of us, not just here in Mudcat land, see something else entirely in the current crop of Republican politicians and pundits.

It's also a fairly well-known historical fact that for over a century between the civil war and the civil rights movement, the Democratic Party maintained a stranglehold on the (voting) South by providing a home for its segregationist white majority.

Things started to change pretty quickly with the advent of Nixon's "Southern Strategy," which saw virtually every white-supremecist "Dixiecrat" switch parties.

While it is obvious incorrect, and an oversimplification, to maintain that every Republican is a racist and a bigot, it's not far from the truth to observe that any and every racist and bigot who is moved to join one or the other political party is most likely going to be heartily welcomed by the GOP.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Apr 10 - 02:12 PM

I think Poppgator has a point. One Party today consistently repudiates the racists. The other does not.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Apr 10 - 06:15 PM

You just can't get enough lieing in, can you Slawz... Me seriously thinks that in addition to yer OCD personality disorder that pathological liar runs a close second...

As for your Republican Party of the 1860s, you have some seroius gaps in your understyanding of the historical roles of the parties, as well, and I'd suggest a refresher course at yer local community college just for starters...

You also don't even have a grasp of more recent history which is unexpianable...

Maybe you'd like to tell the good folks why black people don't seem to have much need for the Republican Party of ***today***???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:46 AM

Yeah, here is just what Bobert has been waiting for so he can launch another hate filled attack. A man with a chip on his shoulder the size of a Sequoia tree because his grand and glorious days of ridin' da bus are over. It's over but he just won't let it go. He still wants to perpetuate racism so he can be the big expert in the field. The racial elitist.

Lie Lie Lie, hate hate hate. A serious OCD.

Bobert hates any body he disagrees with him but I don't hate Bobert. I just disagree with his policies.

Now that Bobert has vented his pent up, has been, hostility, let's get back to a sane and cordial discussion.

"every white-supremecist "Dixiecrat" switch parties."

Who were they?

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:37 AM

See, Slawz... Here's the problem I have with you... You have a reality problem... How many times do I have to say to you that I don't "hate" anyone before it sets in??? I hate the sins but not the sinner... We've had this discussion before but what you do is try to get away with making this "Bobert hates you because_________" assertion because, I donno??? What, if I don't call you on it it becomes, ahhhhh, factual???

As for "sane, cordial discussion"??? Try it sometime... You don't wnat todiscuss squat... What you want to do is go thru someone else's post and try to find some insignificant detail and turn the discussion into a discussion of that insignifican detail... This is what Teribus did during the entire debate in the lead up to the invasion of Iarq..l. He tried his best to derail any and every thread that was a "sane, cordial discussion" by trying to highjack the threads into his little narrow minded, tuinnel vision viwepoint...

Of course you don't see that is what you do, Slaws, but that is exactly what you do...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 04:41 PM

Well Bobert, a discussion involves answering questions which you avoid at all costs.

You have a whole list of excuses like:

"it does not matter"
"the real question is"
"that is just a detail"
"go and do this and this and you will find out the answer"

Reality consists of details. When you start skipping the details, you start losing reality. Accuracy requires details. Lack of details results in sloppiness and fuzzy logic.

When someone else misses things that you classify as a detail for yourself, you call them a liar.

Do you notice I never call anybody a liar? To me that is the equvalent of "I have lost all respect for what you say"

How can you respect anybody that will not admit when they are wrong? I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. I human, not an elitist who always knows best and never wrong on anything.

How can you respect anybody that contradicts themselves and tries to gloss over it?

When I point out to you where you have contradicted yourself you get mad. I would mant to know if I contradicted myself.

How can you respect anybody that is constantly claiming someone hates somebody else and wants to kill them, then claim someone else is projecting.

How can you respect somebody that berates someone else for breaking the law and brags when they themselves break the law.

I remember we had a deal once where you were going to find the source of the "gold plated M16 rifle" given to Saddam Hussein by Rumsfeld.

You were going to apologize if you couldn't find it. I was going to apologize if you did find it.

Did you find it?

Personally I think you come here and throw stinkbombs, like you admitted, and than have a lot of fun with the controversy you stir up.

You started a whole thread to bully Teribus about the war in Iraq then you accuse him of hijacking threads.

I am beginning to wonder about the moonshine. I don't believe you are stupid enough to drink moonshine and talk about it. I wonder if that is just another cute game.

Now if you want to have a discussion, who were these Dixiecrats?

I have looked and I can't get a handle on how many there were and what they did but it seems to be an important point and needs some more details.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 06:33 PM

When the questions border on harassment for thhe sake of highjacking threads, yeah... You ain't gonna get too many folks who want to argue over how many angels can dance on the end of a pin...

As for stinkbombs??? Yeah, that was like 6 or 7 years ago when I came in here once in awhile... Seven year in cyberworld is like generations but you still are consumed with a flipant comment that was made tounge in cheek a long, long, time ago... But you hang on to it as if is the combination to the locks of Fort Knox... Ya' see, Slawz, that in most psycologist's book is obessessive compulsive disorder material... Seriously... I was a social worker in "adult services", meaning that I delt with a lotta of very nutty people... (PM Janie... She'll tell you what kind of folks I delt with... Same that she deals with now)... Anyway, I learned quite a bit about mental illness and, no offense, but yer obsession with me is right there at the doorstep, Slawz...

As for bullying, Teribus??? It can't be done... Everyone who has had dealing with the man will tell you that... Hey, T and I had alot of very heated discussions about the wisdom of going into Iraq... As it turned out, I was right and he wasn't but hey??? The point I was making about T-Bird is one that you are in denial over and that is your desire to destract "sane, cordial discussion" with meanlingless details... Okay, they may mean something to you but taken in the greater context of the thread, that are meaningless... Hey, it's not as if we all do a little drifting from time to time... But you have "drifted too far from the shore" (folk song)...

What else??? Oh yeah... Moonshine... It's some good stuff and maybe if you tried a little you'd loosen up, Baby... I mean, I mighta found myself living and working for several years with primarially black people but I grew up in Virginia with white people, many of whom today are the reddeest of rednecks... I understand rednecks... I also understand mountain people (hillbillies) and moutain people like their shine and when you around folks you do learn to take in a little of the culture... I like shine and I like "mergal huntin'" and I like growin' me a few pot plants in the mountain which I live on... I like tobe back in the mountain... Something kinda spiritual... Kinda like a good shot of moonshine... But I don't reckon you'd understand that, Slawz... Too bad fir you... I mean, I like my hillbilly friends and I like a shot of shine, too... Ain't no hillbilly-wantabee-here... This is who I am... Yeah, I've had to do a little educatin' on some of my friends but hillbillies has got good hearts... Rednecks... Not so good... very angry people... Mountain people ain't... Very mellow... Some good pickers, too..

The Dixiecrats??? There were a shitload of them... All ya gotta do is Google up Dixiecrat and you'll get the entire history... They mostly dead now but their descendents are now the backbone of the "Southern Stategy", i.e. Repubs... Lundon Johnson was right about the Civil Rights Act killing off the Democratic Party in the South... Yup, sho nuff right...

That about it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 04 Apr 10 - 01:54 AM

Bobert, I googled up dixiecrats and it said there were 35 of them but nothing else.

You talked about everything and how you are so much smarter you are so you don't need to answer questions or support your facts but it would have been easier to answer the question I asked. The "go here and do this excuse"

I remember we had a deal once where you were going to find the source of the "gold plated M16 rifle" given to Saddam Hussein by Rumsfeld.

You were going to apologize if you couldn't find it. I was going to apologize if you did find it.

Did you find it?

Ordinary people admit their mistakes instead of stating their life experiences as some sort of reason that they are not really mistakes at all just minor details.

What is the medical term for that?


UNDERSTANDING THE IRRATIONAL MIND


A LONG DEFINITION

Irrationals are those who, when presented with evidence that contradicts their belief, will employ all means possible to reject the evidence, and as a last resort will simply deny it.
Rationals, on the other hand, when confronted with evidence that contradicts their belief, will weigh the evidence, and IF the new evidence is superior to that upon which their belief is based, will replace the old belief with the new.

IRRATIONAL V. RATIONAL

What motivates the irrational mind to protect their beliefs in the face of any and all evidence?
The "Ego" which always seeks to grow ever larger.
And, in fact, that is exactly what it does.
That is why the irrational person will NEVER, EVER admit they are wrong under ANY circumstances.

theskepticarena.com/archives/archive007.doc

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Apr 10 - 07:41 AM

So your last post is yer "Exhibit A" on how to have a "sane, cordial discussion", Slawz... What, are you brain dead??? You just don't get concepts at all, do you... You have no interest in a discussion whats-so-ever... All you want to do is play the Fact-checker-from-Hell... The problem with this is that you will take a post that has many valid, sane, cordial points and go thru it with a fine tooth comb looking for anything that you might find somewhere in cyberworld to refute it and then throw in long cut and posts about an insignificant detail that really had very little bearing on the "sane, cordial discussion" that you say you want and make that insignificant detail the new meaning of the thread???

That is what you do over and over and over here.... You are the ultimate thread highjacker... Bet yer no fun at a party 'cause yer the guy who buts into other discussions and changes the subject... Know anyone like that, Slawz??? Go check out the mirror 'cause that is you to a tee...

Throw in you obsession with me and, yeah, you are a pest... Not someone who wnats to have a sane, cordial discussion at all... Just a pest... Like a carpenter bee buzzin' around yer face when you finally get under the car to swap out a starter motor and there it is... buzz, buzz, buzz...

And, BTW, when someone does take the time to actaully engage you in some "critical thinking" as I did on the 1-in-5-children claim you are incapable of making that effort and just refuse... I mean, it's one think to be ignorant but quite another to want to stay ignorant when someone makes an argument thatmight lead you to question some of the sources that you pick in yer little fact-checker-from-Hell game... And yes... It is a game for you... One, BTW, that is growing tiresome to play... Me thinks you should just copy what I have writtren here and show it to yer shrink and maybe you can make some progress toward being able to hold a "sane, cordial discussion" 'cause right now??? You are completely incapable...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:50 PM

Bobert:

I want to discuss this matter, plain and simple.

I keep reading about how these Dixiecrats are proof of something. I want to know the details to see if the facts about the Dixiecrats support the conclusion about what they did. This is critical thinking. It is questioning. You say I should question things. I am trying.

I promise not to make any personal attacks or use rhetoric, just simple facts.

Diverting the discussion of facts by telling someone they need to do something is a diversionary tactic.

The way you arrive at the truth is by determining what is a fact and what is not a fact.

Does that cause a problem for you?