Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 01:41 AM

I have a design in my head for a fingerpick that could be used both for up picking and strumming--or frailing. I could fabricate them myself except they should be made out of light spring steel, and I wouldn't know how to form that to fit. Any ideas? (I think the design would be great for people who want to feel the strings when either plucking or strumming/frailing.) --seed

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 11:08 AM

Peter T, here's your 3/4 time pattern.

"G" chord. (remember..middle, ring and pinky.

T-6, M-2, T-4, I-3, T-6, M-2.

There are many 3/4 and 4/4 patterns, but this is a good simple one to start with. Learn it well, before you start playing it in a song.

Seed, if you can make those, the world will beat a path to your door. (and I'll be first). I must have two dozen designs for things that I don't have the technical skills to build.

Rick

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Peter T.
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 11:12 AM

Thank you O Supreme Pickerupper. If I do this well will Johann Strauss dance with me?
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 01:16 PM

Peter,

Here are two interesting picking patterns that I learned from Peggy Seeger's little appendix to Folk Songs in North America.

Try that old "G" chord. Remember to alternate bass with your thumb.

T-6, I-3, (M-2, R-1) The parentheses indicate that the two strings are plucked simultaneously. So you have three quarter notes per measure.

An alternative, is the following:

T-6, I-3, (M-2, R-1), I-3, (M-2, R-1), I-3 Here you have essentially 6 eighth notes per measure with the I-3's being the off-beats for three-four time.

If I recall correctly, Peggy suggests alternating your bass, pluck three, pluck three with one of these two for yet another pattern.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 01:34 PM

Thanx for the pick tips, guys; I won't have time 'til after Labor Day to try these ideas, then I will go at it.

MA

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Peter T.
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 02:07 PM

Thanks, Roger, I'll work on that one too (or is it three?).
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 12:55 AM

Rog. Thanks for joinin' in here.

I love to hear someone play waltzes with a flat pick where the "2 and 3" are just "implied", rather than boom, chick,chick. I worked in a Polka band for about two weeks and the leader said "Make it OBVIOUS, boy, Make it OBVIOUS"! And ohhh boy was that band "OBVIOUS"!

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Canberra Chris
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 05:01 AM

Rick, I think it was your thread last week about helping a lass with banjo finger-picking styles. I found that French banjo album. It is LDX 74472, Le Banjo Americain, by Steve Waring, on Le Chant du Monde label. The whole production is a collector's piece, with elaborate sleeve-notes in Franglais - such as "Ici Claude en Cross-Picking really blows my mind!" (followed by a translation into French of 'really blows my mind'.) I acquired the album off a friend in the late seventies, it could be years older. It has some wild technical tracks on it, and full three-fold sleeve notes on technique in French. It may not be what you want, but it should be worth the effort to track down if you can find it. The album's discography cites Folkways albums Dock Boggs, FA 2351, and Roscoe Holcomb & Wade Ward, FA 2363, and also Steve Wray in Tom Banjo, LDX 74393. Hope it's of interest.

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 11:51 AM

Thanks Chris. It sounds weird and wonderful. I'm going to try and get it.

Rick

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Marion
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 10:58 PM

Thanks for the double thumbing pattern Rick. Very nice.

Here's a picking pattern in 4/4 someone recently gave me. I think it would be best suited for a song where the chords last two bars each: it would sound pretty busy packed into one bar. I'll give the pattern here for a 6 string chord; for a 5 string chord you would let the 5th string be your first bass and the 4th be the second bass, and reverse those for a 4 string chord.

--A---------------------A----------
--M---------M-------M-------M------
--I-------------I---------------I--
------P-------P-------P-------P----
-----------------------------------
--P-------P-------P-------P--------
. . . . . . . .

Marion

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Marion
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 11:07 PM

Ignore the diagram above, it didn't work out with the change in font. I'll try it this way:

For a 6 string chord:

(1/4) T-6, I-3, M-2, and A-1
(1/4) T-4
T-6
M-2
T-4
I-3
T-6
M-2
T-4
R-1
T-6
M-2
T-4
I-3

The ones that are not marked as quarter notes are eighth notes.

Marion

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 11:42 PM

Well I'll be! I'd forgotten about this. Actually since this came out, I've seen a couple of "up down" finger pick designs. The Indian "sitar pick" seems to be designed for that application. Thanks Marion.

Also, something that I'm using a lot these days that may be of some use to someone. I call it the "thumb roll".

Put an E chord down (to start). now roll your thumb over the 6th, 5th, and 4th strings quickly...but articulating each note. When you've played the fourth, continue with your index, middle, and ring on the 3rd, 2nd, and 1st. It should sound like a smooth uninterrupted "buh,duh,duh,duh,duh,duh. Now learn to articulate any one of the high three strings, so that you can do the roll with any one of those strings sounding prominent. Without hammer-ons or pull-offs (or double hammer-ons or double pull-offs) which I do a lot, you have six "rolling notes'. If you want eight, just come back on the ring and middle finger. Works nice with ballads.

Peter T's learned to do it pretty well. Harder than it seems (to get it smooth) but with practice.....

Rick

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Marion
Date: 02 Feb 01 - 11:53 PM

Not sure I understand, Rick. Is this thumb roll filling a 3/4 bar, with each string being an eighth note? Or when you say to do the roll quickly, do you mean doing a triplet then 3 quarter notes for a 4/4 bar? What does articulating mean?

Thanks, Marion

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 12:05 AM

Marion, in the strictest sense the timing is 6/8 or a fast 3/4, but I use it for slow ballads (like Shenandoah) with the notes all sustaining for a bit before you play them again. The amount of sustain actually decides whether you're playing in 4/4 or not.

By articulating, I mean that you play one string Louder than the the other two. This way, when you've got comfortable with the pattern itself (took me about 4 to 5 hours to make it really smooth you can play melodies along with your bass notes. It's almost impossible to put this style on the printed page, but if you practice the first most basic steps (that which I've outlined) you can go in a lot of very complex directions with it.

It's similar in sound (but not execution) to a Flamenco "rasquedo", but played a little more slowly.

Rick

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 12:28 AM

When your playing a chord with the root on the fifth string (like C or A) you can start the roll on that string, so you're actually playing five notes (the high three are always played with the fingers...so the thumb only rolls over two strings). You lose the "feel" of the roll on a chord where the root is on the fourth string (D) so it's good to use your thumb on the sixth string second fret) and go back to a full six note roll.

A good way to hear how it sounds with added melody notes would be to play a G chord (have to use the middle, ring and pinky here). Do the roll and articulate (play it a bit louder) the G note on the first string. Let it sustain. Now lift off the pinky (keep the two others on) and squeeze your index finger onto the first string second fret. (articulate the note when you roll). The sound will be a G Maj7. Roll again, and put the index on the first string first fret (you'll have a G7th of course) Now lift the index off the first string altogether and roll again. You'll hear a G6.

OK, here's where it breaks from what I described earlier. (not harder, just different) Do the roll with Five strings (thumb still plays three bass notes but fingers (index and middle) play third and second, only. Put your left hand pinky on the second string third fret (where the roll stops) and don't forget to sustain it. You're hearing a regular G with an articulated D note. Now put the index on the second string first fret (remember the two fingers on the bass strings haven't moved) Do the five note roll. You'll hear a G suspended. Do one more (for now) five note roll ending on an open B string (with sustain). The chords back to G.

It's sort of "harp-like" but you've played seven melody notes over the same chord. Once you can do this, you can re-arrange those notes to suit your accompaniement.

One thing I should have said in the first post was that the roll doesn't always involve six strings. It can stop after four, five or six,(always with the sustain..and as often as possible with three bass notes to get that "rolling feel".

Marion I truly understand how confusing this can seem. If you want to give me a call. I'm at 416 690 8697. I'll try and play it for you over the speaker phone, so at least you can hear what it sounds like.

Rick

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Marion
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 12:36 AM

Do you mean that the notes you are articulating are the melody notes - and the rolls are a fast little envelope for each melody note, like using a lot of grace notes? Gosh, it's also difficult to explain how I'm picturing what you describe.

Is this like a picking pattern that you could use for a whole song, or an embellishment that you would use on a few notes?

Marion

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Marion
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 12:45 AM

Thanks very much for the offer Rick. I hadn't seen your 12:28 post when I wrote last; I imagine that fuller description will help. I'll try it tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

Marion

PS Are you sure it's a good idea to put your phone number in a thread?

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 12:46 AM

"Do you mean that the notes you are articulating are the melody notes - and the rolls are a fast little envelope for each melody note...."

Well put Marion. Yeah, something like that. Bit of a can of worms I've opened. I just got my guitar to see if I was explaining it correctly...and the answer is "Yes....and No".

Let's wait til Peter T sees this. he makes his living explaining things. Trust me, if you were sitting in this room I could show it to you in five minutes!

The problem is that there are more variables than I mentioned. All of which are neccessary in order to use it as a complete accompaniment.

Sorry to be so confusing. If I drank, I'd need a drink!

Rick

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 12:48 AM

It's been in the resource page for three years now. I'm pretty trusting.

Rick

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 11:57 AM

All I can say is that to do it right is TOTAL GUITAR HELL. Also, what is slightly buried in Rick's description is that the melody is being played on the high (high as in high notes) 2,1 strings as you go along. Also that you try and keep your three fingers on the right hand as close to those strings as possible always (Rick also anchors it all with his pinkie, but I can't do that -- at least not yet). DID I SAY IT WAS TOTAL HELL? (Not to discourage you or anything).
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Marion
Date: 05 Feb 01 - 11:26 PM

Well I've been playing around with the seven-notes-in-G sequence you describe, so I think I know what you mean, although I can't do it fluently. But it doesn't seem like TOTAL GUITAR HELL [giggle] so maybe I'm not understanding it; I'd better give you a call if you really don't mind.

You never go past the string where the melody note is, right? The way I'm picturing it is as a quick run of grace notes before a long melody note, with the grace notes strategically chosen to be on as many consecutive strings as possible. Right? If that's the case, I could imagine playing an waltz by rolling up to the longer notes and playing the shorter notes normally.

As for doing it fluently, it seems like the devil is in the change from the right hand thumb to the fingers. So why change? Couldn't you create the effect more smoothly and much more easily by doing it all with your right thumb, just stopping wherever you need to?

Speaking of thumbs, Rick: I can't remember which thread this was in (and I've just realized that the double thumb pattern I just thanked you for isn't even in this thread), but you said that if somebody really wants to get better on guitar they should learn to use the left thumb on the E and A, and that this could be learned in a couple of weeks. What do I have to do for those few weeks to develop this skill? Right now I'm not using my left thumb at all. But I have just bought a new guitar so now I'm all inspired to get better.

Thanks, Marion

Oh, and Peter... speaking as a novice fiddler, I don't believe anything can be described as TOTAL HELL that doesn't involve a bow.

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Peter T.
Date: 06 Feb 01 - 10:01 AM

A VOICE FROM THE INFERNO: Well, you may be right, not having tried a fiddle. Certainly from the outside it sounds like the shrieking of demons....Anyway, you are right that the moment critique is the shift from the thumb to the fingers as you move south -- one reason for not just letting the thumb do all the work is that you can (later on) separate out the thumb to do double thumbing etc, and the fingers can be used in threes and twos and ones in different patterns. Or so I am told.....
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Feb 01 - 12:00 PM

I have to admit Marion, that after three years of trying to explain things in understandable ways, I made a total complete and unadulterated hash of the "rolling thumb" thing. If you've managed to decipher some of it...Wonderful, but after sitting down and playing some things in that style, I realize I made it sound so complex, that even I wouldn't have been able to figure it out,...and I think I invented it! It's actually quite a simple concept, but as Peter says, devilishly hard to get smooth.

The REALLY key part is to play the three bass strings so they sound like something in between a strum and a picking pattern.

As far as using the left hand thumb on chords (F, all Ds, B7, Bb etc.) it's simply adding another tool to your arsenal. It's crucial for playing Ragtime, or any style where you want a constant bass playing under your chords and melody.

Rick

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Gray Rooster
Date: 06 Feb 01 - 12:19 PM

Ken Gaines, a regular at Anderson Fair in Houston, Tx told me a sad tale. Years ago, he was learning about finger picking from one of his idols at the time and was told not to "marry" his fingerpicks. Alas, Ken did and he regrets it now.

I think it is absurd to stick with one method/style/device/sound/etc. Try 'em all and try to develop them all to some degree.

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 06 Feb 01 - 03:22 PM

For Master Rick

Duke Huan was reading a book in the hall. Wheelwright Pian, who had been chiseling a wheel in the courtyard below, set down his tools and climbed the stairs to ask Duke Huan, "May I ask what words are in the book Your Grace is reading?"

"The words of sages." the Duke responded.

"Are these sages alive?"

"They are already dead"

"That means you are reading the dregs of long gone men, doesn't it?"

Duke Huan said, "How does a wheelwright get to have opinions on the books I read? If you can explain yourself I'll let it pass otherwise, it's death."

W'heelwright Pian said "In my case I see things in terms of my own work. When I chisel at a wheel, if I go slow the chisel slides and does not stay put; if I hurry, it jams and doesn't move properly When it is neither too slow nor too fast I can feel it in my hand and respond to it from my heart. My mouth cannot describe it in words but there is something there. I cannot teach it to my son and my son cannot learn it from me So I have gone on for seventy years, growing old chiseling wheels The men of old died in possession of what could not transmit. So it follows that what you are reading is their dregs."

Chuang Tzu (http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/chuangtz.html)

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Peter T.
Date: 06 Feb 01 - 04:29 PM

Once there was a guitar player, who dreamed he was a Martin guitar -- playing sweet tones, fluttering the hearts of many -- and upon waking he was not now sure if he was a guitar player playing a Martin guitar, or a Martin guitar playing a guitar player -- envy him in his existential fretfulness.

after Chuang Tzu.....

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: GUEST,Charlie waller's guitar style
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 08:05 PM

I have just came across this site and enjoy it so much. I have tried and tried to learn the guitar style of the Late and great Charlie Waller.
He has a down-strum type lick but does something different than most players. Any help would be appreciated.
god bless and Merry Christmas to all.
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 09:50 PM

I miss the man.