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BS: Dennis

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CarolC 30 Aug 07 - 11:08 PM
Sorcha 31 Aug 07 - 12:06 AM
CarolC 31 Aug 07 - 10:40 AM
gnu 31 Aug 07 - 01:58 PM
akenaton 31 Aug 07 - 02:21 PM
Bill D 31 Aug 07 - 02:57 PM
CarolC 31 Aug 07 - 04:58 PM
Bill D 31 Aug 07 - 06:10 PM
dick greenhaus 31 Aug 07 - 06:15 PM
CarolC 31 Aug 07 - 11:37 PM
CarolC 01 Sep 07 - 04:28 PM
gnu 01 Sep 07 - 04:47 PM
gnu 01 Sep 07 - 06:22 PM
GUEST,michaelr 01 Sep 07 - 08:34 PM
Bill D 01 Sep 07 - 11:30 PM
CarolC 02 Sep 07 - 01:09 AM
gnu 02 Sep 07 - 06:43 AM
CarolC 02 Sep 07 - 10:35 AM
GUEST,Number 6 02 Sep 07 - 11:27 AM
akenaton 02 Sep 07 - 11:45 AM
CarolC 02 Sep 07 - 12:02 PM
Bill D 02 Sep 07 - 12:52 PM
Alice 02 Sep 07 - 01:01 PM
CarolC 02 Sep 07 - 01:01 PM
Bill D 02 Sep 07 - 02:09 PM
Alice 02 Sep 07 - 02:26 PM
Alice 02 Sep 07 - 02:35 PM
akenaton 02 Sep 07 - 04:02 PM
Bill D 02 Sep 07 - 04:22 PM
Stringsinger 02 Sep 07 - 04:36 PM
akenaton 02 Sep 07 - 04:49 PM
Alice 02 Sep 07 - 05:30 PM
Bill D 02 Sep 07 - 06:33 PM
Stringsinger 02 Sep 07 - 07:24 PM
Alice 02 Sep 07 - 07:35 PM
CarolC 03 Sep 07 - 12:40 PM
CarolC 03 Sep 07 - 01:20 PM
CarolC 05 Sep 07 - 11:12 AM
CarolC 06 Sep 07 - 09:58 PM
GUEST 07 Sep 07 - 02:54 AM
akenaton 07 Sep 07 - 11:10 AM
Bill D 07 Sep 07 - 11:53 AM
Amos 07 Sep 07 - 12:00 PM
CarolC 20 Sep 07 - 02:07 AM
CarolC 22 Sep 07 - 01:59 AM
Neil D 22 Sep 07 - 03:27 AM
Beer 22 Sep 07 - 09:01 AM
CarolC 22 Sep 07 - 01:24 PM
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CarolC 24 Sep 07 - 05:31 PM

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Subject: BS: Dennis...
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 11:08 PM

...in his own words. A lot of people don't get very many opportunities to hear what he has to say. I think that's unfortunate and unnecessary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPFEAnGZA5g&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRxZ64Z7poE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-3DI7_7V8M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxpnAhPXp04


And a little graphic for those who say he's unelectable...

http://www.alcdv.com/KucinichWinsTwice.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Sorcha
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 12:06 AM

All bets are off for me. I'll vote, then wait to see what the damn Repubs, courts and machines do with it. I've pretty much lost all trust and faith in the System.

He who has the most money and connections wins.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 10:40 AM

http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/survival-of-the-middle-class/


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: gnu
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 01:58 PM

Yup.... the old saying, "One dollar, one vote." seems to be all tooooo true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 02:21 PM

Thanks Carol.....If I was American he would get my vote.

It just needs someone to break the cycle....then the sky's the limit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 02:57 PM

"And a little graphic for those who say he's unelectable..."

I noted the fine print at the bottom...

"not a scientific poll"

He 'might' be electable if the Republicans would run Tom DeLay or Newt Gingrich.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 04:58 PM

http://www.dennis4president.com/go/newsroom/survey%3a-majority-of-americans-agree-with-dennis-kucinich/


In the political equivalent of a "blind taste test" taken by more than 67,000 participants, an independent website surveying public attitudes on various issues is reporting that Ohio Congressman and Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich is the first choice of a phenomenal 53% of respondents.

The website (http://www.dehp.net/candidate/ ) has been asking respondents to express and rank their opinions on 25 different issues – the war in Iraq, health care, the environment, Patriot Act, etc. -- that have been raised and debated among the Presidential candidates in both parties.

Those taking the survey vote only on the issues, not for or against any individual candidate. The 67,000-plus responses were then correlated with the positions of all of the candidates as reported on www.2decide.com/table.htm . The results are here: http://www.dehp.net/candidate/stats.php

As of August 3rd (the survey is recalculated every five minutes), more than 35,600 respondents were "in sync" with Kucinich on the issues. Democratic front-runner Senator Hillary Clinton was the first-place choice of only about 2,400 respondents (3.6%). Other leading candidates fared even worse: Senator Barack Obama (3%), and former Senator John Edwards (1.3%).


"When people vote exclusively on the issues that are important to them, without being influenced by name recognition, celebrity, or millions of dollars in advertising, Congressman Kucinich wins in a landslide," his campaign said today.


http://www.dehp.net/candidate/

http://www.dehp.net/candidate/stats.php


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 06:10 PM

The problem is, Carol, that having an outwardly "in sync" platform does not give me a sense of confidence that he would be able to administer it wisely, if at all. Not all his ideals are pragmatic.

As I have posted before, I feel that Dennis serves FAR better as a gadfly than he would as president....as with Ralph Nader or Ron Paul or several others.

I flatly would not be comfortable with Dennis conducting high-level talks in the Middle East....no matter how seemingly 'noble' his goals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 06:15 PM

The pity of our system is that what it takes to campaign successfully is not at all what it takes to actually be President. And vice versa.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 11:37 PM

"Note that too often the Congress and other candidates for the Democratic nomination have been complicit in allowing these erosions of our liberties to take place. Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate to have voted against the Patriot Act. He did something the others should have: He actually read the bill just as he did the National Intelligence Estimate before the Iraq War vote. As a result he voted against the Patriot Act as well all the other right-robbing initiatives by this administration."

http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/securing-constitutional-democracy/


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 04:28 PM

GAO Report Shows The Administration Refuses To Take Responsibility For Initiating a War Based On Lies


Washington, Aug 30 - Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) said the draft of a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report as detailed by The Washington Post today, is a question of whether the United States is going to get out of Iraq.

The article states that Iraq has failed to meet all but three of 18 Congressionally-mandated benchmarks for political and military progress and questions whether some aspects of a more positive assessment by the White House last month adequately reflected the range of views the GAO found within the Administration.

"The report states the Iraqi government is making unsatisfactory progress toward enacting and implementing a 'hydrocarbon law.' This 'hydrocarbon law' is in reality a law that would privatize Iraq's own oil. There has been a broad deception about the content of the hydrocarbon law, a deception which has taken in Members of Congress and the media," Kucinich said.

"Central to the coercive benchmarks is the privatization of Iraq's oil, a wholesale theft of nearly $30 trillion of Iraq assets. This is what the war was about and the Administration and the Congress continue to pressure Iraq to give away the wealth of their nation to U.S. companies. This theft of Iraq's oil resources through the ruse of 'mandated benchmarks' constitutes a violation of international law.

"We do not have to fund the war. We must tell the President NO to any additional funding. No legislation is required. No vote is required. We have the money to bring the troops home. It does not require a vote. The only thing required is honesty, integrity and a willingness to end the war. The war is not going to end if we try to privatize Iraq's oil.

"The Administration is not taking responsibility for its war based on lies. The President and the Vice President have no credibility whatsoever on matters relating to our national defense. They sent more than 3,700 of our brave men and women to their deaths. Congress must act to end the war and end it now," Kucinich concluded.

http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=72672


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: gnu
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 04:47 PM

Bill... "I flatly would not be comfortable with Dennis conducting high-level talks in the Middle East....no matter how seemingly 'noble' his goals."

You don't think he could be logical? compassionate? honest? reasonable? tough if need be?

BTW... those are questions... not bait or provocation or anything else... just questions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: gnu
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 06:22 PM

Of course, I think Hilary is much better looking. I am sure she would do much better dealing with some of those "nastys" as we know how much they respect women... ???

Or... is that too OTT? If I have offended anyone, please... f.

BTW, I like her. She could be my president any day. Especially if she and VP Dennis could agree on health care and the like. Not that I give a shit, except that the sooner the Yanks put the screws to the health care barons, the sooner the rest of us can get back to real universal medical care. It DOES affect us, eh??!! I mean, we need drugs too, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 08:34 PM

You like her? HRC is as much part of the problem in Washington as Bush himself. Power brokers who are in the pocket of big-money lobbyists.

Dennis Kucinich and Barbara Lee are the only members of Congress who have shown the backbone to oppose the administration's schemes. Dennis is the man any sane, responsible person should vote for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 11:30 PM

"You don't think he could be logical? compassionate? honest? reasonable? tough if need be?"

"Reasonable" is one I would worry about. And yeah, 'tough'...I have problems with HOW tough. 'honest'? Sure, he's honest...but Reagan was totally honest before he got in, and he made a BIG mess of many things.

One that is not in the list is 'perspective'...I am not sure he sees all sides of the issues.

He just strikes me as someone who has a very sketchy idea of 'diplomacy' and 'compromise', and like it or not, the world stage demands those skills . His statements of (paraphrased) "As soon as I'm in office, all the troops will come home immediately" worry me. Even those who agree we must get out say that withdrawal is a slow, careful process.

Over all, I just do not see him as an administrator who can lead ...I see him as constantly demanding HIS way, no matter the issue.
There are people I KNOW who agree with MY ideas and philosophy almost 100%, but who I would never trust in a position of power.

so....you asked. (I keep asking people who dislike Hillary, and there are many who just-don't-like-her,...exactly WHAT do you dislike"...and getting FAR less answer than I just gave about Dennis


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:09 AM

The Cold War belief that peace comes through strength is as obsolete as the Edsel. In an interconnected world of trading partners afloat with nuclear weapons, war is unthinkable. The Europeans have turned away from the catastrophic wars of the last century which took over 100 million lives to embrace a new understanding of diplomacy and dialogue as well as a new understanding of patriotism. So must the United States. The world depends on it.

Does anyone in the world deny that the United States military is the strongest the planet has ever seen? Does anyone seriously believe that any country on earth can remain on the battlefield against the United States more than a half hour?

The United States must now embrace strength through peace. Because we spend more than the rest of the world combined we will clearly remain the world's most powerful nation. But with that power comes a great responsibility. We must use our unrivaled power to lead, not to bully, the rest of the world. War must truly become the last desperate measure of self defense, not the handy policy tool it is now used for.

We are the planet's first superpower able to destroy any society within an hour either conventionally or atomically. The fact that we can slice through any army on earth in hours has not prevented:

1) Growing antipathy and distrust towards the U.S. across the globe
2) Escalating bloodshed in Iraq
3) Looming wars in Iran and Syria.
4) Increasing terrorist acts against U.S. interests
5) Spiraling U.S. military spending
6) Spreading weapons of mass destruction
7) Growing conflicts and tension across the world
8) Ongoing arms race

By abandoning the arrogant "my way or the highway" attitude we can reengage the world in productive discussion on our common goals of universal peace and prosperity. Maintaining our current course of action will only end with a world in flames and economic ruin.


http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/strength-through-peace/


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: gnu
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 06:43 AM

Thanks, Bill... good points.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 10:35 AM

Another Day of Mass Civilian Causalities in Iraq

How Many More Iraqis Have To Die Before The Occupation Ends?


Washington, Aug 14 - How many more dead Iraqis is it going to take to get us out of Iraq? We are witnessing a great travesty that hundreds of Iraqis have died today.

"America must leave Iraq. The occupation is fueling the insurgency. Nearly one million innocent Iraqis have died. Nearly 3,700 brave U.S. men and women have sacrificed their lives. Tens of thousands of service members have been injured," said Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH).

"Congress appropriated $97 billion on May 24, 2007, to fund the war through October 1, 2007. Of the remaining $97 billion that is available that money can be used to end the occupation and set in motion an international security and peacekeeping force to move in as U.S. troops, contractors and mercenaries leave.

"Democratic Congressional leaders do not need to call any votes to bring about an end to this war. The Democratic leadership simply needs to inform the President that he must use the available monies to bring the troops home. I repeat this does not involve calling any more votes. Should the President refuse, then he would be subject to action consistent with the Constitutional system of checks and balances.

"This great tragedy that has been visited on the people of Iraq is the result of a morally bankrupt U.S. international policy, which has sent this nation to war based on lies. It will take years for us to repair the damage that has been done to the people of Iraq, the United States and the world. We must now begin to take a new direction--and that direction is out.

"We cannot stand by idly and watch this carnage continue knowing that the irreducible truth of the matter is that the occupation has strengthened al-Qaeda and weakened hopes for peace," Kucinich said.

http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=71236


The Kucinich Plan for Iraq

http://kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/KucinichPlan.pdf


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: GUEST,Number 6
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 11:27 AM

"Does anyone in the world deny that the United States military is the strongest the planet has ever seen? Does anyone seriously believe that any country on earth can remain on the battlefield against the United States more than a half hour?"

China ???

Regardless .... I'm with ya on Dennis all the way.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 11:45 AM

I keep asking people who dislike Hillary, and there are many who just-don't-like-her,...exactly WHAT do you dislike".

SHE WAS AN ENTHUSIASTIC SUPPORTER OF THE WAR IN IRAQ!

Therefore she lacks judgement BIG STYLE


I could give more examples, but that should answer your qestion in full.
Will she be the next president of the USA?.....probably, god help us all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 12:02 PM

Dennis' analysis of the Joint Resolution on Iraq, October 2, 2002...


http://kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/Oct%202002.pdf


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 12:52 PM

"SHE WAS AN ENTHUSIASTIC SUPPORTER OF THE WAR IN IRAQ!"

nonsense! She did the vote to give Bush the benefit of the doubt, assuming that, as president, he must know something about Iraq's WMDs.
She was never 'an enthusiastic supporter'.

(I am, by the way, not all all convinced the she WILL get elected. I do not fear it, I just worry that too many will not vote for ANY woman, (or any black!) and will elect a Guliani or Thompson and give us 4 more years of Republican strong-arms tacics)


Carol...you keep posting position papers and statements by Dennis, but even after reading them, I am not convinced that he has either a good plan, or the ability to pull it off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:01 PM

I admire Kucinich for many of his ideas, but he definitely does
not have the charisma, the speaking skills nor the (unfortunately needed)
height and appearance to win the general election. US voters are
swayed by how someone looks, and Dennis usually starts looking
like a mad bantum rooster when he speaks, and people stop listening
to his words because of how he looks. It's too bad that voters are
influenced that way, but it is true.

Hillary.... well, the Republicans could run anyone against Hillary
and they would win. She is the kiss of death for the Democrats.
The US voters in general would reject her. They didn't even like
her when she was first lady.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:01 PM

I'm not posting them for your benefit, Bill. I'm posting them so people who have not had the opportunity, can read and hear what he has to say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:09 PM

*nod*...fine, Carol

(Ummm..Alice..."they"?? "They didn't even like
her when she was first lady."

Some didn't...some did...but WHY? *I* had no particular problem with her.
(well, maybe not appropriate for Carol's thread on Dennis)...it it worth a separate thread?


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:26 PM

Well, yes, "they" was too general a term for me to use.
I recall back in about 1999 watching a program on focus group feedback
regarding Hillary. A tv audience sample survey was given a choice
to hit a positive or negative button and whenever the camera showed
Hillary on the screen instead of Bill, who was giving the speech,
the negative response went way up. A discussion among the pollsters
showed Bill never acknowledged the negative was about Hillary.
Bill would say things like, "they don't like her hairdo".


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:35 PM

Early in the last presidential campaign, when Dean and Kucinich and others
were running before Iowa, I took the survey at www.selectsmart.com to
see which views of the presidential candidates match my own. When I took the
survey back then and when I take it now, Dennis Kucinich comes out at the
top of the list matching my own views. I still don't think he is electable.
I also don't think Hillary is electable. I like Kucinich, but I have never liked
Hillary. Even when she was first lady, she came across to me as arrogant
and power greedy. I give her credit for trying to improve the health care system
back then, and I don't think it was right that she was shot down for her efforts.
I do see why people are rubbed the wrong way by her. "I wasn't just
baking cookies" comment was one of the small ways her arrogance showed through.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 04:02 PM

If she "did the vote to give Bush the benefit of the doubt", the "doubt" has been shown to have been very well founded and Mrs Clinton has never publically changed her stance.

Perhaps you are standing too close, but from a distance it is obvious that Mrs Clinton has her sights set on the Presidency and is unlikely to upset the power-brokers who run the American political system.

Dont look to the politicians for the change that is obviously needed in American society, they will screw you for more decades unless the people waken up to the Dem/Pub trick and tell them they are unwilling to accept it any longer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 04:22 PM

"Mrs Clinton has never publically changed her stance."

Yes, she HAS...she has merely refused to 'apologize' for her 'error'...she now states that the war was a mistake, knowing what we now know, and that if she is elected, she will take steps to get us out of it.

About 'arrogance' and "set her sights on...". I pity ANY candidate trying to avoid statements and positions which will rile up any significant part of the electorate, or give their opposition a clever sound byte to distort & exploit.
   She...(and others)..ARE trying to get elected. Is trying to win because you think you can do a good job' and 'power greedy' the same thing? Is Obama 'power greedy'? He, like Hillary, is also trying to juggle his need for support among groups who are dubious about him with his desire to speak directly on certain topics which are hot buttons for those groups.

I have seen her interviewed and chatting 8-10 times, and was always impressed at her humor, straightforward answers and general clarity. It seemed to me she understood the issues and had a reasonable approach to them...as does Obama, and generally, so does Edwards. I think Joe Biden has even a better understanding of foreign affairs, but he, like Dennis, does not seem to have the charisma to be nominated.....he has run a couple of times, and just doesn't 'connect'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 04:36 PM

Dennis is an intelligent, compassionate and strong person. He, more than any of the other saber-rattling candidates would be best to negotiate with the Middle East.

He has the kind of charisma I think that is important as a president. He doesn't bluster, or babble on about his religious beliefs. The other candidates simply do not have a coherent plan as to what should be done with our foreign policy. Many of them are so pro-Israel that they lack any kind of objectivity about the Mid-east problem.

The media (Fox and the like) are selling the public a bill of goods on Dennis and it's amazing how many even on the so-called Liberal side are drinking this Kool-Aid.

This whole idea of charisma sounds like applicants for American Idol. Don't forget, Ronald Reagan had charisma too and he brought the country down economically and morally.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 04:49 PM

"she now states that the war was a mistake, knowing what we now know,"

Crime, Disaster,crass stupidity, greed, all could be applied to the Iraq debachle, but isn't "mistake" a bit mild when applied to the deaths of over half a million people?

Sounds like you're trying to get "Hillary the Hawk" off the hook.

If Mrs Clinton had not the political accumen to work out the consequences of a pre-emptive war on Iraq, then I woulds feel most uneasy with her finger on the nuclear button.

Bobert and I knew it was a "mistake long before Mrs Clinton did....why dont you dump Hillary and stick up Ake and Bobert on a joint ticket.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 05:30 PM

I think it is unfortunate that "charisma" like Reagan makes Americans vote, but I'm realistic in recognizing that is true.
I don't like it, but it is reality. Biden would make a great president, but I don't have faith in American voters to see that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 06:33 PM

"but isn't "mistake" a bit mild when applied to the deaths of over half a million people?"

'mistake' was my word...I was paraphrasing. "Hillary the Hawk" is YOUR loaded phrase to distort what she has said she believes.
She was only one vote among many who took a chance that they were not being lied to about Saddam's plans and power.

I get so damn tired of people labeling & defining politicians (on EITHER side) by 'proving' how they voted on a specific day or time. They tried to pin Kerry to the wall by referring to one vote...and he never did manage to phrase his disclaimer clearly...which worried me more than the vote!

I might not choose Hillary as my first choice, but not because of all these attempts to paint her with the 'hawk' brush!


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 07:24 PM

Bill, all we have to go on is what the candidates tell us in their speeches. Hillary has not admitted that she made a mistake on Iraq, as Edwards has, and she also says that circumstances around Iran are "on the table" which we can interpret to be a nuclear or invasion option. "Hillary the Hawk" is appropriate in this instance. Obama has stated later that he might have made a mistake regarding the Occupation. (I will not call it a war.)

It seems to me that Kerry and others knew that a pre-emptive strike into Iraq is illegal regardless of Sadam's reign of terror. I don't buy this "I didn't know" excuse that many Dem johnny-come-latelies are giving on this Occupation. It was wrong to begin with and they can't slide out of it.

Don't tell me please that Biden's "You're the real deal" speech to confirm Gonzales was a naive gesture either. The Dems were just too chicken.

And they keep giving money to Bush to finance this criminal enterprise.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 07:35 PM

Good points, Frank.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 12:40 PM

http://kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/dkiranstatement.pdf

http://kucinich.house.gov/SpotlightIssues/spotlight1.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 01:20 PM

LOL


Was your Presidential Candidate Fooled?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fOt6UGROi8


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 07 - 11:12 AM

Dennis crushes the opposition again (non-scientifically)...


*Results as of 9/05/07, 11:00 AM*


Who would you vote for?


Joe Biden
        
(23 Votes, 1%)


Hillary Clinton

(58 Votes, 2%)


Chris Dodd

(4 Votes, 0%)


John Edwards
        
(57 Votes, 2%)


Mike Gravel

(34 Votes, 1%)


Dennis Kucinich

(1688 Votes, 46%)


Barack Obama

(194 Votes, 5%)


Bill Richardson

(18 Votes, 0%)


Sam Brownback

(2 Votes, 0%)


Jim Gilmore

(1 Votes, 0%)


Rudy Giuliani

(42 Votes, 1%)


Mike Huckabee

(7 Votes, 0%)


Duncan Hunter

(1 Votes, 0%)


John McCain

(10 Votes, 0%)


Mitt Romney
        
(32 Votes, 1%)


Tommy Thompson

(10 Votes, 0%)


Ron Paul

(1528 Votes, 41%)


Click 'View Results' to see the results.

http://www.helenair.com/election2008/


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 09:58 PM

http://www.dennis4president.com/go/alerts-%11-left/a-report-from-the-middle-east/

A report from the Middle East

While the other leading candidates for the Presidency were spending the Labor Day weekend campaigning at picnics, barbeques, state and county fairs, and parading in front of the cameras, YOUR candidate, Dennis Kucinich, without fanfare, was quietly traveling throughout the troubled Middle East in search of real-world solutions to monumental, global challenges.

The votes we cast next year will have an impact here in the United States and around the world, and the candidate we elect must be equipped to make sound foreign policy decisions, based on first hand experience and in-person communications with other world leaders.

So, while other candidates partied and picnicked and posed, Dennis and Elizabeth traveled to a troubled, dangerous region of the world to meet with heads of state and other political leaders to find ways to solve the problems, mitigate the dangers, and find common ground for diplomatic cooperation - and PEACE.

"Strength through Peace" - the Kucinich philosophy - means direct engagement, diplomacy, adherence to international law and upholding treaties. It was in that spirit that Dennis and Elizabeth decided to visit the Middle East; to see whether political and religious leaders as well as the citizens of the region were open to the kind of positive dialogue recommended in the Baker Hamilton report. The kind of dialogue ignored and dismissed by the White House.

The six day trip started in Syria. In the Golan region, they visited the site of the "Shouting Valley" where Syrians whose families were separated by the occupation have to literally shout to each other across a distance of several hundred yards in order to maintain family and personal contact.

Syria has accepted and settled more than one and a half million refugees from Iraq. Dennis and Elizabeth visited an area on the Syrian-Iraqi border, as well as one neighborhood in Damascus where some of the Iraqis had settled. The Syrian government is providing free education and healthcare. "People are desperate," said Dennis. "They have lost loved ones in the war. They have nothing but the clothes on their back. This is a profound humanitarian gesture on the part of this country because it significantly increases the population of Syria. Now, someone must provide for these refugees."

On the second day, there was an extended meeting with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. They discussed a wide range of other matters including building relations between Syria and the United States, the role of the European community in negotiations between Syria and Israel, hopes for a national unity government in Lebanon, matters affecting Pakistan, and Assad's stated desire for a peace agreement with Israel.

Elizabeth met with the President's British-born wife, with whom she shares an interest in community economic development, education and the welfare of refugees.

One of the most moving parts of their trip was a visit to the holy site of Notre Dame de Saydanaya, a revered Christian mecca where legend says the Virgin Mary appeared 1,500 years ago, fully veiled Muslim women worship together with Christians. "In this time of religious strife, it is important to bear witness to places that show the way of peace," Elizabeth observed.
Peace and harmony in the Axis of Evil?? Would that message be seen on American TV? No.

Next, Dennis and Elizabeth visited Lebanon. There, Dennis met with President Emil Lahoud and Prime Minister Fouad Siniora where further discussions centered on resolving the conflict with Israel and issues surrounding stability in Lebanon.
President Lahoud was specific about the challenge of Shiites having resigned from the government: "Lebanon is governed by a consensus on every issue. To have this we must have the three main religious groups represented equally (Shiites, Sunnis and Maronites). When one group leaves, you cannot have a legal government."

And, in what may be a surprise to many here at home, there is a surprisingly large American population in Lebanon. How large? About 50,000, many of them active in "Democrats Abroad Lebanon", a branch of the Democratic Party's official overseas arm. Those U.S. citizens were thrilled to have a chance to meet Dennis and Elizabeth at a special evening meeting, and they used the event to kick-off their plans for getting Americans in the country to vote in Democrats Abroad's delegate selection process to choose delegates to attend the Democratic National Convention next year in Denver.

Lebanon's leading Christian cleric, Cardinal Sfeir, Patriarch of the Maronite Church met with Dennis and Elizabeth. Cardinal Sfier is no stranger to U.S. politics. He has met with George Bush, Dick Cheney and Condaleeza Rice in Washington. As the leader of a large segment of an ethnically and religious diverse nation, he told the Kuciniches, "We have to appreciate living together with persons who are not of our faith and working with them to achieve a common good."

Dennis and Elizabeth also made plans to return to Qana, the site of heavy fighting during last year's war and to participate in a televised 'Town Hall forum' in downtown Beirut with residents of the city.

Dennis, who will be returning to the U.S. in the next few days, summed up the trip this way: "I believe that through direct communication, there is hope for peace. The world is ready to embrace America again. It is important that America reaches out to show our true values, our compassion and our willingness to work for peace."

When he and Elizabeth return, he will provide a more detailed description of their travels and a more comprehensive assessment of his political and diplomatic findings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 02:54 AM

I find The American political system amazing, and the people who support it even more amazing.

Carol has given numerous examples of Kucinich's popularity with the American electorate,yet because his policies are at odds with "Corporate America" he is extremely unlikely to gain nomination.

How on earth can folk like Bill, Don, and others countenance this state of affairs and still call themselves "democrats"

Surely it should be clear that the changes required to give Americans a proper health service, a minimum wage and a properly funded social service framework will never be achieved under the present electoral system.

Any meaningful political change has always had to fought for by the people making their voices heard in protest.

Hoping that things will improve by voting in another branch of "the firm" has never worked historically and is destructive.
People who propagate these ideas are doing a disservice to real democracy...Ake
Ake - I almost deleted your message because there was no name in the 'from' box.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 11:10 AM

Sorry Joe...wasn't logged in.

Thanks for saving my profundity :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 11:53 AM

"How on earth can folk like Bill, Don, and others countenance this state of affairs and still call themselves "democrats""

*sigh*...that 'poll' that seems to indicate Dennis is so damn popular is hardly scientific OR representative. Several others here, including me, had said that some of Dennis' ideals are ok, but that we doubt both his ability to lead and his grasp of reality as to how to implement his ideals. Do we get added into the "for Kucinich" totals?

and this: "...because his policies are at odds with "Corporate America" he is extremely unlikely to gain nomination." is pure distortion of the data. He is unlikely to gain nomination largely because of what I said above....too many people just don't think he can do the job.

I will, however, agree to this:

"Any meaningful political change has always had to fought for by the people making their voices heard in protest."

and Kucinich cab do a lot in THIS arena...just as Jesse Jackson has done in civil rights, or some of the more 'strident' women did in various movements in the 80s. There need to be voices pushing the limits, if for no other reason than for comparison. We seldom elect those with the most extreme viewpoints, but they make (some) of us think.
I read and listen to Kucinich, just as I did with Nader...but....


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 12:00 PM

I'd like to see him elected just to be able to watch Elizabeth.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 02:07 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ_lHdQ9-E8


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 01:59 AM

Iowa Democratic leaders trying to "rig the game" by excluding Kucinich, Presidential candidate charges

DES MOINES, IA – Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich said Iowa Democratic Party leaders and other groups aligned with the entrenched political power structure are "rigging the game in Iowa" by excluding him from two Presidential events this week.

"The whole purpose of the primary and caucus season is to provide voters with opportunities, not to enable a carnival of interest groups to subvert the process," Kucinich said. "When Party leaders and their allies pre-select which candidates they will allow the voters to hear, it's a disservice to the voters. Iowans deserve better than a rigged game."

Congressman Kucinich, (D-OH), was not invited to Sunday's Democratic Steak Fry in Indianola, nor to a Democratic Presidential Forum Thursday in Davenport. Representatives of both events have falsely claimed that Kucinich does not have a sufficiently "active organization" in Iowa.

However, statewide and national polls consistently show Kucinich running ahead of Senators Joe Biden and Christopher Dodd, who were invited to participate. A recent American Research Group poll in Iowa showed Kucinich getting 3% of the vote, ahead of Biden and Dodd, who were at the bottom with 1% each. In the Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg Poll in Iowa two weeks ago, Kucinich and Biden were both at 2% and Dodd was at 1%.

In the most recent CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll, Kucinich was at 3% nationally, Biden was at 2%, and Dodd was below 1%. Another national poll, Rasmussen Reports, showed Kucinich tied with New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson in fourth place, behind Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, and former Senator John Edwards. Richardson was also invited to participate in the Iowa events. Kucinich also won a post-debate poll on ABC's website after the last Iowa debate.


"We're doing better than some of the establishment candidates, and we're moving up," Kucinich said. "Instead of spending millions of dollars on high-priced consultants, and slick advertising, we have a highly motivated grassroots organization."

He also questioned the decision by the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) Iowa Public Television to exclude him from Thursday's Democratic Presidential Forum, which will focus on the issues of health care and financial security.

"The Presidential debate on health care has been largely fake, with phony claims from candidates that they are providing 'universal health care' when, in fact, they are preserving the for-profit system of private insurance companies who make money not providing health care," Kucinich said.

"I am the only Presidential candidate to offer a true universal healthcare plan for America, HR676, Medicare for All.   It is a comprehensive, not-for-profit, national health insurance plan, and everyone is covered," Kucinich said. "No premiums, no deductibles, no co-payments."

"How can AARP and Iowa Public Television claim they are committed to educating and informing the voters of Iowa on the Number One domestic issue in this campaign when they deny a voice to the only candidate who is leading the effort to bring real reform to the health care system by ending the control of for-profit insurance and pharmaceutical companies?   Since the AARP's own insurance sales interests would be affected by HR 676, serious questions must be raised about their decision to deny me a place on the platform," Kucinich said.

In one highly publicized incident in July, unaware that their microphones were still on and the cameras were still rolling, Clinton and Edwards whispered to each other on stage about eliminating some candidates from future debates. "It is most interesting," Kucinich noted, "that a number of post-debate analyses determined that I performed better than all the other candidates (AFL-CIO, ABC, Howard University, Logo Forum). I can well understand why the other candidates do not want competition, but the credibility of the Democratic process is at risk if sponsoring organizations join in the subversion of that process."

"You would think that the Iowa Democratic Party leaders, fighting to preserve the state's status as the first caucus state, would be a little more careful about giving other states the impression that they and they alone have the right to determine who the next President will be." Kucinich said.

http://community.aarp.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=rp-issues&tid=49043


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Neil D
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 03:27 AM

Having grown up in NE Ohio I've been familiar with his career since he was Boy Mayor of Cleveland. I have to say that I have never voted for him in the primaries for the reason cited by many in this thread, his unelectability. Not that I care about his image, or his small stature, etc., etc. It's just that by the time of the Ohio primaries he was so far back in the polls and delegates collected that it seemed like a wasted vote. Because I really do jibe with him on all the major issues. He is the only candidate who was ALWAYS against this senseless war, as was I. He is the only candidate to advocate truly universal health insurance, as I always have, even back when they called it "socialized" medicine.
   Plus he is more aware of whats really going on around the world than most. Thus, he has a healthy distrust of the military industrial complex and our corporatocracy. I couldn't agree more. He has battled greed, wealth and power on behalf of the common man all his adult life and is considered the ultimate underdog. Well who better to fight for the underdog than the ultimate political underdog.
   Now this coming Democratic primary season stands to be the closest three way race all the way through to the convention with real differences between Obama, Hillary and Edwards and a great deal at stake. But at the end of the day I just might have to vote for someone I actually agree with for a change, just this once. And that would be Dennis Kucinich.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: Beer
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 09:01 AM

Thanks CarolC for making this member of Mudcat aware of Dennis Kucinich. I for one don't follow political threads much but you have certainly sparked an interest for me
Beer (adrien)


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 01:24 PM

No problem, Beer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 01:25 PM

On Iraq and Iran, and congress' role in preventing an even bigger catastrophe in the region...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4ScQrcfloI


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Subject: RE: BS: Dennis
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 05:31 PM

Get to know Dennis on Fora TV...

http://www.fora.tv/searchresults.php?keywordsearch=kucinich&page=1


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