BS: Kucinich files a complaint

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 06:57 PM

Well said Carol. And the fact that he will it seem#s have to pay for the NH recount although he stands not to benefit makes him seem ever more the man of principle to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 08:27 PM

Thanks for the link, Carol. I had signed on to get his emails the other day. He has been my first choice all along. I like what I read about his Medicare For All. May it become a reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 06:04 PM

McCain will be campaigning in Michigan with Joe Lieberman, once again proving as an "all war all the time" candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 06:18 PM

Carol, please check this out.

Exclusive audio: Kucinich considers GOP Ron Paul as his running mate
Posted by Sabrina Eaton November 28, 2007 12:10PM
Categories: Democratic Party, Impact, Kucinich, Presidential candidates, Republican Party


Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 06:23 PM

CarolC please check this out.

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2007/11/kucinich.mp3

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 06:24 PM

McCain makes my blood run cold. I think he's still (psychologically, I mean) trying to win the Vietnam War...a war which his side very richly deserved to lose, in my opinion. A man like that is dangerous...though I understand fully why he would feel as he does...it's the way veteran soldiers often do feel when a war they were fighting in was lost. Many, many German soldiers felt that way after WWII ended. It just depends on whether or not they lost faith in what they once believed in or not.

Since he suffered very badly at the hands of his battlefield enemies, it's not surprising that he feels the way he does. Be that as it may, it makes him dangerous, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 07:26 PM

LH - He strikes me the same way.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 07:50 PM

Frank, I got it from the top people in his campaign that there will not be a Kucinich/Paul ticket. Those of us who were working for his campaign heard about this a while back, and while he may have floated the idea for a short while, he was informed in no uncertain terms by many of us, that we would not continue to support him if he ran with Dr. Paul. Shortly after that, we got the word from his top people that there would be no Kucinich/Paul ticket.

This happened, by the way, shortly before the news came out about the racist newsletters from those Ron Paul supporters. I have no doubt that Dennis was horrified when he found out about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 08:11 PM

Yeah, what a joke...

Dennis wouldn't appoint Ron Paul as dog catcher...

Oil and water here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 08:16 PM

Here you go, Frank. From the horse's mouth...

http://www.noisemp3.com/file_upload/uploaded_files/20071129230535_timoliveira_kuchvpaul.mp3

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 09:36 PM

Here's some video of Dennis talking about the New Hampshire recount...

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=156831770&blogID=346839242

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 09:42 PM

This one discusses the recount, and also the fact that NBC has decided to exclude Dennis from next week's debate in Nevada, even though he has met the criteria. There's a number at the bottom for anyone who wants to call NBC and complain...

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=156831770&blogID=346796541

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 08:45 AM

The networks are really distorting the process when they make these kinds of calls. In the Fox debate last week, the electronic poll that Hannity and Colmes showed afterwards indicated that the viewing public thought Ron Paul won the debate.
                  After a while they quit showing the results. Obviously, that's not what Fox News wanted the outcome to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 09:36 AM

ABC did that to Kucinich a while back. They did everything they could to try to hide the results of their own poll. In that one, Dennis got 13,393 votes and the next candidate down, Obama, got 9088 votes.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 10:51 AM

Yes, the activities of the Corporate Oligarchy and their efforts to hide their blatant control of the entire political process are slowly becoming more and more blatantly obvious...as happens in an Orwellian system as time goes by.

I think there has been significant fraud involved in the last 2 federal elections and in some other elections as well. I think George Bush actually lost the last 2 federal elections. I think Hillary Clinton actually lost the New Hampshire primary. Perhaps it will all come out some day, but I doubt it.

It's the kind of thing that is very unlikely to ever be proven unless some of the guilty actually come out and admit their own wrongdoing. Not much chance of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 04:27 PM

Thanks for the info, Carol. I never thought that Paul would really accept a run with Dennis.
However, the fact that Dennis could consider such a thing means he didn't do his
homework. He shouldn't have needed to be horrified. The word on Paul has been out
quite some time. It brings in to question a judgement call.

However, it is criminal that Las Vegas (G.E.=N.B.C) should go back on their promise
to have him in the debates. I think it was wrong of NH media not to allow Dennis
in those debates. This exclusionary practice of the media erstwhile news corporations
of legitimate candidates from debates makes a mockery of the election process and
democracy in general.

I am disgusted with the so-called front-runners as well who didn't speak out on this
important issue. They are true power-brokers and only concerned with getting elected.

Dennis is the only candidate addressing the issues honestly. If it weren't for this Paul thing, I might have been able to trust him. I am heartbroken about this.

I will still call NBC and protest.

I am not supporting any candidate at this time. I will, however, vote against every
Republican who is running.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 07:19 PM

I don't know if you are aware of this, Frank, but it was back in November that Dennis said that. If you're only just now hearing about it, you seem to be getting old news. I didn't know anything about the charges of racism against Ron Paul until after Dennis said that myself. How long ago did you learn about it?

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 12:22 PM

I think it makes sense to say: Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul have a common enemy--the corporate take over of the world--they just disagree on what to do to combat this enemy.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 12:45 PM

Here is the latest email from the Kucinich campaign...VERY interesting.



Breaking News: Judge says MSNBC debate
must include Kucinich

-from the Los Angeles Times:

A judge in Nevada has just ordered MSNBC to include Rep. Dennis Kucinich in Tuesday's Democratic Party presidential debate in Las Vegas or he will cancel the forum.

Senior Clark County District Court Judge Charles Thompson vowed to issue an injunction halting the nationally televised debate if MSNBC failed to comply. Kucinich had filed a lawsuit seeking to be included just this morning.

The judge ruled it was a matter of fairness and Nevada voters would benefit from hearing from more than just Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and Barack Obama. Kucinich had been invited to participate in the 6 p.m. Pacific debate Tuesday, but that invitation was rescinded last week ... So set up a fourth podium.

Andrew Malcolm, correspondent - The Los Angeles Times

Dear Kucinich Supporters,

FINALLY, the principle that we are a nation of laws and not of corporate media control has prevailed. And without your support, your phone calls and emails and letters, this issue might never have attracted the national attention it has.

BUT, while Dennis is preparing to go to Nevada - court order in hand - to represent your interests, expect that MSNBC, NBC, its parent company GE, and dozens of other alphabet-soup corporations in the nation will start filing appeals on top of appeals to keep Dennis out of the debate and try to deplete our limited financial resources. Multi-billion corporations don't want Dennis on that stage Tuesday night. And they will do everything; spend anything they need to make sure that his voice - your voice - is not heard. The law is on our side, but the dollars are on theirs.

NOW, more than ever, we need your continued financial support to stop megalomania-media from robbing you of your Constitutional rights, taking control of the American electoral process, and hand-picking the candidates they want you to choose from.

Defend your rights today. Make a contribution today to the only candidate who is willing to challenge the powerful interests that want to control you.

They will try to outspend us, but, with your help, they won't be able to out-fight us. Please, contribute whatever you can to defend your rights, and ask everyone you know to do the same.

We won today, but tomorrow is another battle.

Strength through Peace
Kucinich Campaign

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 01:26 PM

And I betcha no-one views the lawyer as a hero;(

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 03:34 PM

Well, given the number of questions that Dennis has recieved in past debates I'd be surprised if he gets a word in edgewise...But this beats a blank...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 04:52 PM

Good for Judge Thompson!

In past debates, it was pretty obvious, not to mention disgusting, that nobody was putting questions to Kucinich, so he had to ask himself questions. Damned obvious that they were trying to shut him out and exclude him from the debate.

Whether he wins the nomination or not, he has a lot to say that needs to be said, and I think it will resonate with a whole lot of voters.

6:00 Pacific Time. I'll be watching.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 07:30 PM

Maybe there's some justice after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 08:33 PM

Well, what happened? 0132am UK time, someone must know if the appeal succeeded or the whole debate was pulled, or the debate was rigged....

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 08:48 PM

MSNBC announced earlier today he'd be in the debate. As far as I know, that hasn't changed. The debate starts in 15 minutes though.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 08:56 PM

Yeah, yeah - that was then. Keith Olberman just said 'Kucinich is out.' Didn't say why.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 09:43 PM

They never say why when they'd rather people didn't know...

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 12:15 AM

!@#$%&%!

And just what in the hell happened!???

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 12:19 AM

Somebody had the fucking Nevada Supremes in their pocket:

Representative Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio was prevented from participating in the Democratic presidential debate Tuesday night after the Nevada Supreme Court ruled that MSNBC was not required to include him.

The seven-member court overturned a ruling Monday by a Nevada district court judge.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 02:01 AM

It may be premature before reading the judgments (which I hope appear online sometime) but it does rather seem to help to make Kucinich's point (a valid one, I think) about the limitations on the "democratic debate" in the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 02:30 AM

This just goes to prove that Kucinich is the only Democratic candidate still in the race who isn't in the pocket of the coporatocracy. They are so desperate to keep the voters of the United States from hearing his message. And the reason is because when the voters hear his message, they realize that the other candidates are bought and paid for by the corporatocracy and are working against the best interests of the voters. If they weren't so incredibly afraid of him, they wouldn't need to go to all the trouble they're going to to keep the voters from hearing his message.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 07:56 AM

Well, the debate was just a mutual lovefest without him. Nothing of substance was raised or discussed. I guess that's what General Electric (America's largest defense contractor)wanted.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 11:00 AM

The judgment will I hope appear in a longer version soon.

http://www.nvsupremecourt.us/documents/cases/50889.ordergrantingpetition.pdf

Three issues look legally very interesting:

1. Of principal interest in the USA but worth comparing for judicial review purposes generally - the courts had no jurisdiction because Kucinich had not exhausted his remedies with the FCC. Of course had he made an FCC complaint instead it would have been months before anything happend, so in practice that is a denial of a remedy.

2. There was no "consideration" to support a contract. Many jurisdictions find the Anglo-American insistence on "consideration" anomalous. The New Zealand and Australian courts have criticised it, it has no part in Roman-Dutch or Code Napoleon laws (including Scotland), the English Courts watered it down a lot recently in Williams -v- Roffey as far as variation of contracts is concerned (and the Californian courts take it that consideration is not necessary for a variation). Some English academics were expecting the US to produce the next big break with "consideration" doctrines - but I guess this was not it.

3.   Promissory estoppel would not provide a substitute for consideration. That is probably consistent with the view that estopel is a shield and not a sword, but again some academics were expecting the USA to take the next step in the development of promissory estoppel (pioneered by Lord Denning in "High Trees House.

I lectured it to my students this morning!

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 12:49 PM

What you are seeing, people, is a coup. The destruction of your democratic system. It's been a long-running coup, because it started well over 8 years ago, if not long before that. It is invisible control of your electoral and voting and campaign and media systems from the top down by a monied few who buy out most of the politicians in BOTH the Democratic AND the Republican parties. They choose who your next president will be, and which half of the Duopoly gets to run the next administration.

It's the triumph of Big Money over popular will. The people have no real voice anymore.

So what you got was 8 years of Reagan, followed by 4 years of the Bush dynasty. Then it was time to switch teams (a periodic refresher done to make people feel there's a "choice")...so you got 8 years of the Clinton dynasty. Time to switch teams again....you get 8 more years of the Bush dynasty, courtesy of 2 stolen elections!

Next likely chapter? 4 to 8 more years of the Clinton dynasty....seems like the most probable plan...but I'm sure there are alternative contingency plans in place just in case Hillary turns out to be simply too unpopular with the general public. There are always alternative contingency plans, because the corporatocracy doesn't buy out just ONE major candidate...they buy out all of them.

In my opinion.

Kucinich clearly has not been bought out. Therefore he's being shut out...by dishonest media, a dishonest party, and dishonest courts.

That's a coup.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 04:18 PM

Thank goodness for Democracy Now. They have asked Kucinich the questions from last night's debate and given him a certain time to answer AND have provided a transcript and video of same HERE.

No need to throw up your hands in despair and declare a total loss. Dennis is keeping on as should we all!

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 05:00 PM

That is useful Kat, and I shall watch it at the weekend. Now if we could figure out a way to get every American to watch it.....

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 06:07 PM

The basic reasoning for exclusion was made in Iowa by the Democratic party....they ruled that a candidate with less than 15% support was not eligible for delegates.

Obviously, this does exclude folks who have a lot to say...but it also gradually winnows down the 'official' debate to those who have any chance of winning. There is simply no way to include ALL minor candidates in all discussions all the way to the convention and still cover the necessary ground.

   Dennis...and Dodd, and Biden..... and even Mike Gravel can still make their opinions known...especially in this digital medium.

I am just thankful that Ralph Nader was not contending...and that the fellow from the Comedy Channel was not allowed to be 'official'. I like seeing different viewpoints, but I don't relish having them continuously shrilled at me after the majority of the country has made it clear that that particular blend of personality and ideas is not gonna fly.

I have heard Kucinich thru 2 campaigns now, and I know what he thinks...and I agree with some of it, but we need to focus on those who really 'might' win.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 06:31 PM

On the other hand, people who can't get any public exposure can never hope to win.
                     I don't think I've seen anything recently as boring as the debate in Nevada. If Kucinich had been in it, it would at least have held your attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 06:44 PM

Kucinich met the criteria for the MSNBC debate. They even congratulated him on meeting the criteria. Then, apparently, they either ignored their own criteria, or they changed them at the last minute. This has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with censoring what the voters are allowed to see and hear.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 07:02 PM

" people who can't get any public exposure can never hope to win."

true enough. It still seems to me he got quite a bit of public exposure....enough to convince most of the 'public' to turn elsewhere.

"...everything to do with censoring what the voters are allowed to see and hear."

aww, c'mon! The voters can see & hear practically anything, at any time. I can go listen to Pat Robertson and get HIS unique view on it all, but he is unlikely to be a viable candidate! It's a matter of sorting thru the different opinions...there MUST be a way to be fair without hearing everything every registered candidate says at every forum until the final vote.

(Rig..you think you were bored last night? Wanta listen to Mike Gravel's interesting homilies at each debate?)

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 07:07 PM

Yeah, I'll have to admit, Gravel isn't very inspiring.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 07:21 PM

Kucinich at least keeps up with current issues and offers some reasonable opinions....Gravel was off-the-wall a lot...but a nice guy.

Some well-known folks are mostly single-issue candidates.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 07:38 PM

They've been trying to prevent him from getting exposure all along, including when he was in the debates and they refused to ask him any questions.

While campaigning out in public, I encounter more people who have never heard of him (and who are very impressed with him when they do get a chance to read and hear what he has to say) than I do people who know about him and don't like what they hear. This is a product of the media blackout they've been waging against him all along. It's very calculated. Take for instance when ABC refused to publish the results of their own poll after Kucinich mopped the floor with the other candidates. Kucinich is the only one who works for the voters and not for the moneyed special interests.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 08:15 PM

Kat, I agree with you that there is no point throwing one's hands up in despair. Dennis is keeping on, as you say, and so should the rest of us.

When I say that there has been a lengthy coup under way for years now to dominate the government and media in the USA with a single homogenized corporate-sponsored viewpoint, and that both major parties are deeply compromised by it, I am deadly serious...but I am not suggesting that people throw up their hands in despair.   Nope, I'm suggesting that they find every way possible to save their democracy while they still can.

I suggest:

1. Pressuring one's representatives to investigate what is going on, and asking them to see that people like Dennis Kucinich are not shut out by the main media outlets.

2. Campaigning vigorously against the use of computer-controlled voting machines, and insisting on paper ballots.

Dennis Kucinich has won a number of nationwide polls conducted on the Internet in which he came through as the MOST favored democratic candidate on the slate. The TV media have done their best to give it little or no notice, in hopes that most people will remain oblivious to it. Anyone who thinks that their screening of him out of the last 3 televised debates was based on such a fair and reasonable notion as "gradually winnowing down the 'official' debate to those who have any chance of winning" is akin to an ostrich with its head stuck firmly in the sand....quite determined to avoid any uncomfortable realities in favor of some much more comfortable mythologies.

Such an attitude is exactly what would suit the agenda of the controllers who have decided that Clinton, Obama, and Edwards are the only 3 Democratic viewpoints worthy of national televised exposure. They don't seek to discover public opinion, they seek to mould it to their own predetermined formula...no matter what. The public, to them, is just a piece of mindless dough to be kneaded into shape, shoved into the electoral oven, and baked.

And what does that get you? A "cooked" election, and a "cooked" presidency.

Has anyone ever heard of a state supreme court rushing to reverse a judgement this quickly before? In a matter of hours? I haven't. Can you imagine the urgency with which the controllers rousted out that state supreme court and got them to pass their ruling so that Kucinich could be silenced????

That tells you right there what is going on. They didn't do it because it's cumbersome to have 4 points of view in a debate. They did it because they are downright desperate to keep TV viewers from getting a chance to hear Dennis's message go up against those of the 3 compliant stooges who got to BE on the show...and who all say pretty much the same thing anyway. You get a choice of oatmeal 1, oatmeal 2, and oatmeal 3....but you do not get a chance to hear someone who is offering something much more substantial than oatmeal!

Now keep in mind, I personally like Obama a lot. I like Edwards a lot. I even like Hillary Clinton moderately well as an individual, always have. But I find the policies they are offering to be like watered down really weak lemonade compared to what Kucinich is offering which is strong medicine for a sick country! Just no comparison there.

That's why he isn't being allowed on the debates. He'd make the others' policies look as lacklustre as they really are.

And public support? Ha! Public support is being manufactured in the usual corporate. As always. BY the media! By whom the TV decides to promote. They decide who you're gonna vote for before you ever even heard about it, and then they spend the next year or so arranging it. That's how it's done in Orwellian systems. When are you going to wake up and realize you've been had?

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 08:35 PM

Little Hawk..and others.
It is important to be aware of exactly what certain polls indicate. When you have polls which give Kucinich 'wins', what you are usually seeing are honest nods to some of the wisdom in various of his stances and positions.
At the same time, he gets pretty limited support in VOTES...which indicates some combination of doubt about his leadership abilities and electibility.

I have tried over & over to make the point that having some good ideas and being honest & fearless about expressing them is important, but not always sufficient to qualify one for just any office. He is a good congressman and a useful gadfly....I would not trust him to administer the White House. I am not alone in this opinion.

(this in no way suggests that sincere supporters of any candidate should not ask for 'fair' treatment as far as possible....it is just that opinions of 'fair' differ.)

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 08:51 PM

Okay, I understand your position on that, Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 09:12 PM

Bill, why would you not trust him in the White House? I really want to know as i am fairly new to his camp.

LH, thanks for the very good suggestions!

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 09:18 PM

Nevertheless, Bill, the process is not a democratic one if the corporations are deciding which candidates we are allowed to have access to. Only a very small fraction of the voters have cast their votes. The primary season has only just begun. Those of us who live in states that hold their primaries/caucuses later than Iowa and New Hampshire have a right to be informed about the decision we are going to make at the polls. Neither you nor NBC have the right to deprive us of that opportunity.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 09:24 PM

It is important to be aware of exactly what certain polls indicate. When you have polls which give Kucinich 'wins', what you are usually seeing are honest nods to some of the wisdom in various of his stances and positions...

...I have tried over & over to make the point that having some good ideas and being honest & fearless about expressing them is important, but not always sufficient to qualify one for just any office. He is a good congressman and a useful gadfly....I would not trust him to administer the White House. I am not alone in this opinion.

By the way, this is mere opinion and speculation. You have no real basis for making such statements. Just because you feel this way about him doesn't mean that the people who choose him in polls are doing what you have described, nor does it mean that you are correct in your estimation of his qualifications for the office of the presidency. Really, Bill, these statements from you are quite a stunning bit of hubris.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich files a complaint
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 09:27 PM

It's very, very hard to say before the fact how well any one person is going to do at handling the office of President of the United States. It's just guesswork. In any case, no one person does handle it all by himself or herself. It is a position which must depend on the assistance of a great many advisors and experienced people who are around the president.

Accordingly, I don't think anyone among us is particularly qualified to decide whether or not Dennis Kucinich would be able to handle the job of president.

And he would not be doing it alone.