EFDSS and competitions

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 07:27 PM

I'd like to point out that Gwen no longer works for the society. If anyone wants to know the society's current priorities, they might do well to contact the Chief Exec, Katy Spicer.

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 07:10 PM

why not take a look at Comhaltas,
eg solo singing,duo singing group singing,set dancing,solo violin, solo tin whistle, solo concertina, solo northumbrian pipes,solo two row diatonic accordion,english country dancing, playford dancing, solo broom dancing,solo one row accordion,solo piano accordion,trio ,duos etc etc,then divide it into age groupings.under 12, 12 to 18,over 18.

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 06:51 PM

as recently as 1967 the EFDSS organised a group competition,won by the Puritans,and a solo competition,which was won by someone still performing on the national folk circuit.
I have just found this piece of recent information.by googling EFDSS Competitions.
       Traditionally-focused music, song, and dance competitions? [xposted]
As part of my work for EFDSS, I've been asked to put together a list of traditionally-focused music, song, and dance competitions in the UK, with an eye to those with a national scope (although we'd like to look at healthy regional competitions as well).

We're interested in sponsoring some prizes for these awards, but we can't do that if we don't know what they are!

Is there a listing anywhere (various google searches haven't come up with one, so I'm not hopeful) of competitions? Even a listing of competitions for specific instruments would be great.

If you know of a list, or of a competition I might not have heard of (or even one you're sure I msut have heard of!) please leave it in a comment?

Thanks,
Gwen Knighton
Marketing and Publicity
English Folk Dance and Song Society.

well, when I suggested competitions 18 months ago,I was criticised and ridiculed by members of this forum ,who were members of the EFDSS.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 06:31 PM

GREG ,you appear to not know how Comhaltas competitions are run,the competitor has to play a selection of tunes,generally a hornpipe a reel a jig and one other,names are not of importance.,so arguing about whether a tune is called Father O Flynn or Top ofCork road,just doesnt happen.
Comhaltas have a set of rules that are very clear.
thereis nothing to stop another organisation having rules that are perfectly clear.the competitor checks the rules ,if he/she doesnt like it he/she doesnt have to enter.
you are making problems that dont exist,Comhaltas have been running competitions for 57 years.
music is judged subjectively,but the criteria does not have to be ornamentation,it can be musicality,danceabilty,lilt.
with song it can be other things,and with songwriting different criteria again.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 06:17 PM

hi ,Geoff,Comhaltas operate an examination system,which works well.
when all is said and done, Comhaltas have been successful.,they have acheived their primary aim,which was in 1951,the prevention of the disappearance of traditional Irish music
they are the only organisation[as far as I know] that provides instrument tuition in most areas of England.Dick Miles.

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: Tootler
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 05:52 PM

Competitions are not unknown here in the UK.

They are common in the brass band world and also in piping.

Folk Festivals in Northumberland often seem to include competitions.

Nevertheless, I understand Martyn Ryan's reservations about competitions. They can introduce distortions by rewarding particular styles of performance over others. OTOH, I sometimes look at video clips on the Comhaltas website and am generally impressed by the high standard of musicianship displayed by the young players featured.

Another road that could be explored is the graded music exams used in the classical music world and which are now being extended into Jazz. They are not perfect, and also can result in distortions by focusing on some aspects at the expense of others, but the system is well established and understood and, done properly, could help to raise the status of folk music in England.

This page is worth a look.

Geoff

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 06:45 AM

I don't disagree, Ruth - of course. I'm simply outlining my own observations on what has happened in the context of Irish traditional music. In my opinion, Comhaltas effectively tapped into a pre-existing community rivalry and ultimately produced what many people regard as the monster of competition. My point is that, along the way, they also produced an audience.

Regards
p.s. Another of the Hydra's heads, of course, is what amounts to competitive drinking at Fleadhs!

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 06:35 AM

you can introduce kids to music successfully and not have to make it a competition, Martin. Look at Kathryn Tickell's Folkestra, Luke Daniels' Gael Music project, and the numerous successful folk music tuition projects around the country which have as their outcome high-quality ensemble performance, not competition.

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 06:29 AM

Greg

I know what you mean about the impact of competition, but..... I sometimes think there are fewer losers than one might imagine in these things. The kids who drop out of tin whistle classes or who rebel at having to sing set pieces in a competition style or get tired of weeping at having come 14th yet again, still end up with a better sense of what the music is about than the perenially passive listener. They provide the core of a knowlegeable audience because they can tell the difference!


Regards

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 06:28 AM

All-England competitions could be absolutely dreadful. I have just spent forty years researching trad music in the northwest of England. I can just imagine the London judges dismissing the Cumbrian entrants(far too Scottish), the Lancastrians(far too Irish), the Cheshires and Shropshires(far too Welsh).And just imagine the arguments. Are fiddle ornaments English, or a dreaded foreign importation?Is that tune really called Yorkshire Lasses, or is it called the Top of Cork Road or Father O'Flynn? That D/G melodeon: is it traditional, or was it invented by Peter Kennedy?
And what about the Geordies? The EFDSS CD "Hardcore English" didn't have any NE musicians on it at all, as far as I can remember.

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 06:14 AM

The trouble with competitions is they are great for the winners, but not so good for the losers

Subject: RE: EFDSS and competitions
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 06:13 AM

I suspect Comhaltas' success in this respect has had a lot to do with its ability to tune in to, for example, parish rivalry and pre-existing structures at that level e.g. GAA clubs etc. Not sure the trick could be replicated in modern England.

Regards

Subject: EFDDSS and competitions
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 06:00 AM

when are EFDSS going to reintroduce competitions?.
Comhaltas have been responsible[amongst other things] for strengthening the music through their fleadh system.
what logical reason is their for EFDSS,not to copy their success.Dick Miles