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carol thatcher death threats

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GUEST,Baroness 07 Mar 09 - 02:24 PM
GUEST,lox 26 Feb 09 - 07:10 PM
Bryn Pugh 26 Feb 09 - 09:35 AM
akenaton 26 Feb 09 - 07:25 AM
Stu 26 Feb 09 - 06:23 AM
akenaton 26 Feb 09 - 06:04 AM
goatfell 26 Feb 09 - 05:55 AM
akenaton 26 Feb 09 - 05:25 AM
akenaton 26 Feb 09 - 05:16 AM
Teribus 26 Feb 09 - 01:26 AM
Gervase 25 Feb 09 - 05:53 PM
Bryn Pugh 25 Feb 09 - 11:06 AM
Teribus 25 Feb 09 - 09:47 AM
Bryn Pugh 25 Feb 09 - 05:03 AM
Teribus 24 Feb 09 - 06:07 PM
akenaton 24 Feb 09 - 01:36 PM
Nigel Parsons 24 Feb 09 - 12:15 PM
Teribus 24 Feb 09 - 11:45 AM
Bryn Pugh 24 Feb 09 - 11:01 AM
Teribus 24 Feb 09 - 10:26 AM
Bryn Pugh 24 Feb 09 - 10:06 AM
Teribus 24 Feb 09 - 09:58 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Feb 09 - 06:03 AM
Teribus 24 Feb 09 - 05:46 AM
Bryn Pugh 24 Feb 09 - 05:00 AM
Backwoodsman 24 Feb 09 - 04:53 AM
Backwoodsman 24 Feb 09 - 04:52 AM
Teribus 24 Feb 09 - 04:51 AM
Bryn Pugh 24 Feb 09 - 04:27 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Feb 09 - 03:57 AM
Teribus 24 Feb 09 - 02:45 AM
Teribus 23 Feb 09 - 06:01 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Feb 09 - 01:11 PM
Teribus 23 Feb 09 - 12:40 PM
Bryn Pugh 23 Feb 09 - 11:27 AM
Stu 23 Feb 09 - 11:01 AM
Teribus 23 Feb 09 - 10:43 AM
Nigel Parsons 23 Feb 09 - 10:37 AM
Stu 23 Feb 09 - 10:08 AM
Bryn Pugh 23 Feb 09 - 07:34 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Feb 09 - 05:35 AM
GUEST,lox 22 Feb 09 - 06:43 PM
Big Mick 22 Feb 09 - 03:35 PM
akenaton 22 Feb 09 - 03:21 PM
Jim Carroll 22 Feb 09 - 03:20 PM
Big Mick 22 Feb 09 - 03:07 PM
Jim Carroll 22 Feb 09 - 01:03 PM
Teribus 22 Feb 09 - 12:21 PM
Teribus 22 Feb 09 - 11:33 AM
Stu 22 Feb 09 - 11:29 AM
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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: GUEST,Baroness
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 02:24 PM

I quite like the Thatcher games at http://www.maggiethatcher.com though!


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 07:10 PM

Didn't John McLean stop a gang of ruthless international criminals from robbing a state of the art modern building?

And then stop another gang who had taken over the control tower of an airport and were crashing planes ...

... I'll get my coat ...


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 09:35 AM

Speak for yourself.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 07:25 AM

Jack....I fully agree with you on Connolly and the fight for Irish independence, but that is a different subject.

What I was referring to was the small minded attitude of many on the left, who still see a lifetime of toil and struggle to support a discredited political system, as acceptable; and how their bankrupt dogmas are now being dressed up in political correctness to deter any who question them. For example, see how these stupid remarks by a remarkably stupid woman have turned into a "cause celebre" for us lefties.........The "piss on Thatchers grave" attitude shames us, we as "democrats" put her where she was for 18 years!

The problem with the left is that we want our cake, and eat it.
Socialism in a Capitalist society....Don't make me fuckin' laugh, we are simply posturing....we're not ready for real life!!


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Stu
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 06:23 AM

"You should all be ashamed of yourselves..."

No-one should be ashamed of holding and arguing for their opinions, and to suggest they should is condescending at best. I disagree with Teribus on many things but should he be ashamed of holding his views? No way.

One of my heros is James Connolly, but on this forum he'd be condemned as a hypocritical left-winger as he was an ardent support of unionism and the rights of the ordinary working man, as well as being a committed socialist.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 06:04 AM

Mine too Tom.....but the political landscape has changed, we have the benefit of hindsight.

I loved Mclean for his bravery in his stand against the oppression of the poor at considerable personal risk, but the ideas which he espoused over centralised control of power turned out...through no fault of his...to be just as oppressive.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: goatfell
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 05:55 AM

one of my heroes was John McLean


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 05:25 AM

Further to that, We must make a start on wiping the greatest evil of our time.....Capitalism....."right off the map", and not replacing it with a system just as capable of enslaving humanity!

"Small is beautiful"


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 05:16 AM

Oh no!...what have I done!....Supported my political "enemy", because he happens to be right in his assesment of a left wing cabal steeped in nineteenth century political dogma, mixed in with a "liberal" dose of twenty first century politically correct lunacy!

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.....especially Jim, who I believe has had the advantage of looking at our political system from the extreme left....To see him now puddling about after golliwogs and big simple girls is a sad sight indeed.

The left has never been good at facing reality, this doesn't make it wrong, just cowardly and hypocritical. We should abandon our failed battle lines, admit where we have gone wrong, get out of the fuckin' trenches and start looking for a new way(or maybe a very old way)to make humanity happy free and fulfilled.

The miners are a very good example, and I admire Scargill for his spirit, but looking back further than the economic issues involved, did we really want to condemn further generations to an industry which was dirty, depersonalising and which would in the end kill those who worked in it.

The fact that most miners hated the life and most tried to ensure that their children did not follow them down the pit, is conveniently forgotten by the lefties who care more for dogma than real life.

I know Mrs Thatchers motives were unlikely to be influenced by the welfare of the miners and more by the survival of her govt, but that should not blind us to the whole truth of the issue.
Basically I think that's what Teribus is saying in most of his posts.

Dare I say that he is using a hatpin to burst a balloon?....Ake


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 01:26 AM

Oh Gervase were that the case it would look very bad for yer man, "hat-pin" Pugh, were he to be lifted. After all what possible reason could a bald man offer for carrying a concealed, shit smeared hat-pin on his person??


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Gervase
Date: 25 Feb 09 - 05:53 PM

Hmm, two bald men fighting over a comb.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 25 Feb 09 - 11:06 AM

What ?


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Feb 09 - 09:47 AM

Ahh you're struggling now "Hat Pin"

You had little enough to say before that made any sense, and it just seems to have got less and less.

What's up nobody telling you what the party-line is supposed to be.

Give us all the heads up when next you feel inclined to pop into the Milliners.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 25 Feb 09 - 05:03 AM

Well, well - who'd have thought it ?

Termite and akinbum gregariating ?

Well, there's a surprise.

What does the adage say ? : misery loves company.

Beyond reasonable doubt, as a Lawyer might say.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 06:07 PM

"...but people need to know that they can have a life of freedom and happiness before they will be willing to change anything; and that does not mean a lifetime of toil for the "common good"...or the spectre of a benefit ridden society sapping the guts and spirit from everyone....Ake"

That is one of the most truthful and most common-sense things I have read for a long time - Well said Akenaton.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 01:36 PM

Aye I'm afraid it's game set and match to Teribus.
Your stupid over reaction to the "golliwog" remarks has left you open to charges of hypocrisy...the curse of the "soft left"

I really think you have all taken leave of your senses, the old mantra's of the left are useless, that doesn't mean that right wing Capitalism is the future....but people need to know that they can have a life of freedom and happiness before they will be willing to change anything; and that does not mean a lifetime of toil for the "common good"...or the spectre of a benefit ridden society sapping the guts and spirit from everyone....Ake


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 12:15 PM

Jim Carroll:
Speaking of which, I received no response from Nigel P.... I'll take that as a 'yes' then?
You were perhaps expecting aresponse to:
I find it interesting that you find belonging to a fascist organisation a legitimate way to express yourself Nigel - is this a statement of your own position by any chance?
I didn't really see the need to respond to so blatent a misquote.
What I originally said was:
You don't say whether you believe the police should have been ordered to dissociate themselves from the National Front, or if you are complaining about the infringement of their right to belong to any political party of their choosing.
I assume it's the former and you would deny them the very rights of self-expression which you claim they clamp down on for others!

You still fail to say whether it is your belief that the police should not be permited allegience to any political party, or whether you are singling one out.
And no, I do not subscribe to the views of the National Front, nor of the BNP. But I made no claim either way.
If you must quote me, then please do so accurately, and do not presume that lack of a response means that I agree with you. From your one-sided rantings so far that seems highly unlikely!


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 11:45 AM

Blood pressure "Hat-Pin"? Had it checked today at 13:50 actually - Guess what?? Normal, no cause for concern whatsoever.

I take it that as a lawyer you'd really have to steer clear of anything to do with "war crimes" wouldn't you. Unless of course you were prepared to make yourself out to be the one hell of a hypocrite, considering that your weapon of choice was decreed as being against the rules of war as far back as medieval times.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 11:01 AM

Boring, Terylene, boring.

Had your blood pressure checked, recently ?

The choler you display on this and other threads leads me to wonder how far you might be from a stroke ?

Not that I wish you any harm, you understand ; I can always stoop to pick up rubbish.

Over and out.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 10:26 AM

"Go and lie down in a darkened room with a damp cloth over your eyes.

I'm sure you'll soon feel better." - Bryn Pugh.

I think I'll pass on that Bryn, especially with the likes of you wandering about at liberty - Oh and as for getting sectioned, I say that your behaviour, of which you appear to be so proud, warrants it a damn site more than anything I've ever turned a hand to.

In answer to your question - "How long did you spend over the dictionary to find that "gregariate" is a made-up word ?" - less than 10 seconds.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 10:06 AM

Termagant-

Go and lie down in a darkened room with a damp cloth over your eyes.

I'm sure you'll soon feel better.

How long did you spend over the dictionary to find that "gregariate" is a made-up word ?


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 09:58 AM

"I mean what sort of nasty warped individual would even think of doing that"
Who indeed – Asks Jim

A rhetorical question of course because Jim Carroll knows precisely what sort of nasty individual carries concealed weapons smeared with excrement in public with the express intent of stabbing perfect strangers – a friend of his, they both admire and respect one another. Apparently by all accounts Jim and Bryn got on, and do still get on extremely well, and shared many a convivial evening of song and politics. When Bryn, the respected and admired, is not out sticking concealed weapons smeared with excrement into perfect strangers, he is apparently a fine singer according to Jim.

Well if Jim's taste in music is anything like his taste in friends that ain't saying very much at all is it. I am pleased that Jim and Bryn are proud to call one another friend, but a word of advice Jim, if you're out with him in a crowd, keep him in front of you – no telling what might get stuck into you if you don't.

One thing's for certain Jumbo if it came to the choice for condemnation and censure between someone who referred to someone's hair style looking similar to a golliwogs, or to someone who carries concealed weapons smeared with excrement in public with the express intent of stabbing perfect strangers. I know whose behavior I like to see corrected as a matter of urgency.

I can imagine that your convivial musical evenings were great, you and Bryn competently backed up by Rose and Alan West, Peter Sutcliffe dropping in now and then, not to forget Myra. All those birds of a feather 'gregariating', whatever the hell that might be – I ask because "gregariate" as a word does not appear to exist in the English language.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 06:03 AM

"I mean what sort of nasty warped individual would even think of doing that"
Who indeed - perhaps someone who would support the slaughter of women and children in the defence of occupied territory, or maybe those who would remove the livelihood and destroy the communities of those who have supplied the nation of heat and energy for generations for dubious economic gains, or those who would advocate trade with repressive regimes - or maybe even those who would propose that we be policed by fascists - it's a funny old world!!
Must go.
Jim Carroll
PS Your posts are now verging on the hysterical - take your pills!


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 05:46 AM

You are probably the most childishly abusive self-abuser it has ever been my experience to debate with - and it is typical of the breed that they whinge and complain when others take their cue from your abuse."

Would that you had even attempted to debate – which you did not – it would have been an improvement on having to read your ill-informed twaddle. "Whinging" Jimmy, not my style, I merely made note of your lack of reasoned argument and the resort to "ad hominem" attacks, just like your "shitty-hat-pin wielding" pal and erstwhile singing partner Bryn-the-legal-Pugh.

Yes it is rather obvious that your politics are of the left, more than amply illustrated by the rubbish you spout. As to my political affiliations James, you are correct you cannot even guess at what they are. You guess at "ultra-right" – you guess wrong by a long shot. Yours is the sort of "socialism" that most children outgrow by the age of 15, certainly for a man of your years one would have hoped that somewhere along life's journey you might have picked up a modicum of "common-sense".

Hey were you "politically" active like your pal Pugh?? All fired up with socialist outrage and indignation?? Perhaps a member of a political party that had vowed to change the world?? Standing there shoulder to shoulder with your "brothers", shittin' up the hat pins for the next big demo??

As for myself Jimbo – I've never been interested in, or been a member of any political party in my life. I am possibly the most a-political person you've ever come across, I think in sixty odd years I've voted twice in my life.

Why do I appear to champion the "right" on this forum – mainly because of the seemingly never ending stream of lies, half-truths, mis-representations and myths the socialists and chattering-left trot out to make their points in threads on this forum – no other reason.

"So far we have seen you support the massacre of civilians in Gaza"

No not in the least, you have seen me support the right of a sovereign state recognized by the United Nations to defend its territorial integrity and the safety of its citizens from attacks launched from outwith its borders.

So far we have seen you - "smear and misrepresent the Irish"

Really?? Can you provide some quote of mine in which I "smear" the Irish?? I would certainly be interested in seeing that

So far we have seen you – "excuse racism"

Where Jim-lad?? Exactly where have I excused racism??

So far we have seen you – "shit on the miners"

Where have I "shit on the miners"?? I know that your pal Bryn did, by supporting them in the manner that he did, I mean with "friends" like that in your corner who the fuck needs enemies.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 05:00 AM

Teratogen -

Blind Pugh was my father.

I'm slightly short-sighted Pugh.

You might need a Lawyer, some day - when "they" section you.

By the tone of your most recent posts, I don't think it'll be too long, now . . . .


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 04:53 AM

Oops! That'll teach me to lurk.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 04:52 AM


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 04:51 AM

Eh no Jimbo it was your pal Blind-shitter-Pugh needed the shit to smear on his hat pins.

I mean what sort of nasty warped individual would even think of doing that? Hey Pugh what did you do for encores, mug pensioners?? Tip people out of wheelchairs?? Substitute guide-dogs?? Oh that's right, I remember now - you became a lawyer.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 04:27 AM

Oh dear, Terrytowelling-

Personal attacks, eh ? Ah, diddums . . .

As I remember, you laid the ground rules :

" . . . scum masquerading as decent people . . . "

So don't spit your dummy out, and throw Teddy out of your cot, when I play by your rules, sunshine.

As I posted earlier - get back under your bridge, before I get Great Big Billy Goat Gruff to see to you.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 03:57 AM

Terrytoon,
"As this is purely a personal attack in which Jim Carroll cannot even get my name right I think it can be ignored."
You are probably the most childishly abusive self-abuser it has ever been my experience to debate with - and it is typical of the breed that they whinge and complain when others take their cue from your abuse.
I am more than happy to respond to your cut-and-paste points, but as I will be away for a few days so I will have to forgo that pleasure for the time being.
In the meantime:
"What you mean that the people who live and work in the "Democratic People's Republic of China" are not living in "the worker's paradise"
I have never discussed my political affiliations with you so cannot possible even guess what they are, any more than I could guess whether your own politics come from the old N.F. line, the B.N.P. 'new image', or the European LePen stable.
It is obvious that my politics are of the left, just it is obvious that yours are of the ultra-right, but that's as much as either of us know, and to presume any more is typical of your arrogance.
"And what would all those Chinese workers do if the rest of the world did not buy from them?"
I do find it interesting that you trot out the old rightist excuse for trading with oppressive regimes though!
I look forward to resuming our little tete-a-tete when I return; I am an avid follower of Lady T's "oxygen of publicity" line of thought
So far we have seen you support the massacre of civilians in Gaza by the Incontinent Army of Israel, smear and misrepresent the Irish, excuse racism and shit on the miners - let it all hang out, I say!!
Speaking of which, I received no response from Nigel P.... I'll take that as a 'yes' then?
Jim (Lad, or is it The Brit) Carroll


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Feb 09 - 02:45 AM

"pond life" Bryn Pugh?? Don't know about that, but there again, I wasn't the one sitting at home dipping hat pins in shit before going out with them carried as concealed weapons with the intention of sticking them into complete and utter strangers was I??

And now you're a lawyer - probably one with that sterling ability to walk upright under an earthworm wearin' a "lum" hat.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 06:01 PM

Whinge James old boy, not in the slightest, "sticks and stones" chum, but between the pair of you your beginning to sound as stupid as Bobert, apart from the fact that Bobert is by far the better musician and performer.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 01:11 PM

"I assume it's the former and you would deny them the very rights of self-expression which you claim they clamp down on for others!"
I find it interesting that you find belonging to a fascist organisation a legitimate way to express yourself Nigel - is this a statement of your own position by any chance?
"Another personal attack Bryn?"
Please don't whinge Terrapin; it's undignified, especially since I've already had occasion to take you to task for your bad manners - that would be the time when you were defending racism - remember?
Jim Carroll (aka Jim the Brit)


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 12:40 PM

Another personal attack Bryn?? How unexpected.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 11:27 AM

Carry on, Teribus - set it to music and you might have a new rock opera.

If taking my name in vain gives you a buzz, please carry on.

If you think it annoys me, be assured it doesn't. I take as much heed of you as I do of a puppy's bark, or an ass's fart (spot the difference ?)

With any luck, you'll ger RSI or wanker's cramp.

Ever thought of doing a Ph. D. ? You've written enough for one.

"...scum masquerading as decent people . . . " - a high compliment

from pond life, n'est-ce pas ?


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Stu
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 11:01 AM

"No doubt leftie BBC coverage . . ."

That got a belly laugh here at the SFJ Worker's Co-Operative. I can't believe you're trotting out this tired old cliché Tezza; It's as old as Thatcher's syrup and about as dusty and flea-ridden too.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 10:43 AM

"his remarks have been answered and he chooses not to respond with anything other than his rightist twaddle, as opposed to answering points made. He continues along on his own twisted constructs. I don't believe that his points haven't been addressed." - Big Mick

Now as far as me not answering points put to me goes Big Mick let's take a run through them:

•        "Don't know why I'm surprised to find the pretentiously and self-importantly pseudonymed Terribus (is 'War Cry' still published by The Salvation Army?) with his ultra-right proboscis still firmly jammed up the rear end of the establishment!"

As this is purely a personal attack in which Jim Carroll cannot even get my name right I think it can be ignored.

I had asked Jim Carroll the following question - "Well then Jim-Lad still want to tell me about law-abiding "miners". His reply:
•        "I knew Bryn as a fine singer many years ago; I do not agree with his attitude here, nor do I believe it to be either helpful or representative of the striking miners actions – do you? By the way, I understood Bryn to be a member of the legal profession – I certainly never knew he was a miner."

This point I believe I answered, while the majority of striking miners did protest peacefully and legally, certain sections did not and it was their actions that the police reacted to – Note that word reacted. Also in the "picket" lines were supporters of the militant left, they were not miners, they had nothing whatsoever to do with the dispute, the sole purpose of their presence was to instigate and provoke trouble – they are the ones I referred to as being "scum masquerading as decent people".

With regard to Bryn Pugh, the information I post in this thread is paraphrased from what the man himself has written in threads on this forum, so he can have no objection to it being repeated here.

•        "Interesting to see that the actions of the miners are all being compared to 9-11, and Irish terrorist activities; (surely you could have fitted the somewhat incontinent Israeli army in there somewhere) – do you really have as low an opinion of British workers as that?"

Here is Jim Carroll once again trying to put words into my mouth – old trick Jim tried by many on this forum, it hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now. Address yourself to what I actually say, don't expect me to respond to things that I have not said. I would also advise you to go back and read the particular post you incorrectly gleaned that "comparison" from, you will find after actually reading it that I was responding to a point made by Big Mick about the "the means justifying the ends", and the hypocritical way it is applied by the Left.

I made the following comment - "Taking a look at the instances of violence on the picket lines it was the norm that it started with objects (stones, bricks, etc) being thrown at the police." To which Jim Carroll jumps in with:

•        "Yes, I see you do have such a low opinion – utter bollocks – the vast majority of pickets were peaceful ones, the handful of violent ones got the publicity – prove your statement."

I begin to doubt whether Jim can actually read, or whether he just reacts and goes off at half-cock. Judge for yourself Big Mick:
- Where in what I said do I state that the vast majority of picket situations were violent? – truth is I didn't.

- Where in what I posted do I state that I have a low opinion of British Workers? – truth is I don't voice anything remotely like an opinion on British Workers.

To my observation that - "The miners and their "supporters" broke the law". I received in response:

•        "As distinct from the Thatcher Government who manipulated the law and used the police force as a private army in order to break the strike,."

And you have the gall to complain about right-wing twaddle. A number points unpalatable as they well may be:

- The "Thatcher Government" was the elected government of the United Kingdom.

- Manipulated the law? Guest Lox stated that every game must have rules. In this case the rule of Law. If you or anybody else is going to state that actions taken by the government of the day, or by the police force were illegal, I would suggest you come up with some proof to back your statements up, please forgive me if I am not inclined just to take your word for it. Oh and the following is perfectly correct - "the police acted in accordance with their duty to uphold the laws of the land".

- explain to us all what rules relate to legal industrial action in the UK Jim. What you can and what you cannot do, then tell us how many times those boundaries were trampled during the miners strike.

•        the provocation of miners on strike pay by the police by waving money at them;

If true this would provoke the miners how?? How could this harm them?? The miners or their "supporters" however could always retaliate by sticking hat pins dipped in shit into the police officers who so aggressively wave cash at them couldn't they Big Mick. The only miners who got strike pay were those who actually turned up on the picket lines – true??

•        the Orgreave mounted baton charges (still have the press cutting of the woman about to have her head split in two by a mounted guardian of the law);

Glad you mentioned Orgreave:
"Initially the strike played out like most others, and the strikers played football for a while. But as more numbers arrived on both sides, tensions began to rise. There was some stone-throwing from the miners' side which persuaded the commander of the police presence, Assistant Chief Constable Anthony Clement, to deploy a cordon of long-shielded police in front of his standard officers - a fairly standard practice in such encounters. The first casualty was PC Akers, who was hit in the face by a brick at about 8am, and taken to hospital."

The press cutting you so cherish, the photographer must have been exceptionally lucky to get it: "The NUM was represented by 5,000 to 6,000 pickets from across the UK. The police deployed between 4,000 and 8,000 officers, and were deployed from 10 counties. Of these, a small number had been trained in new riot tactics following the Toxteth and Brixton riots, while most had little or no experience in dealing with such events. There were between 40 and 50 mounted police and 58 police dogs. There were no women officers and only a handful of female picketers."

But then that's the trouble with still photography, you don't get what happened immediately before of after the shutter operates.

Rather odd that at the end of the day in this modern day "Peterloo Massacre" you had 93 arrests, 51 miners injured and 72 policemen injured. Tell me Jim is it legal to construct barricades across roads in the UK. Is it legal to break into business premises and steal material to construct your barricade? Who was the first person injured that day Jim??

•        "and then there was a (leftie, no doubt) BBC documentary on the events);"

No doubt leftie BBC coverage – Google up BBC biased reporting and take a look at the number of inquiries and investigations that have been conducted into our "national" broadcasting corporation that is supposed to provide balanced and impartial reporting of events throughout Britain and around the world – take note of how many of those investigations have resulted in findings of the BBC showing a clear left-wing bias in its reporting.

•        "the near declaration of martial law by the police authorities closing off pit towns in order to prevent lawful demonstrations in favour of the strike – all well verified in print and on film."

Is there such a thing as a "near declaration of martial law"?? I don't think so – You either have a state of martial law or you don't and that has to be declared by the Government of the day and they most certainly did not do that – If you doubt that consult Hansard.

To the statement - "Overall, the government generally had more support than the miners". I got:

•        Oh dear, another referendum I missed – when was that one? Considering that the information on the events on the strike were controlled and manipulated by a largely hostile media, it's hardly surprising which way the ballot finally went – or is it a case of 'left-wing' bias and right wing 'information'?; as far I'm concerned 'Not So' Sleepy Rosie has the right of it.
Hands up all those who were asked to take part in the poll – I wasn't!"

I quoted results of a number of Gallup Polls taken throughout the course of the strike and I clearly stated that it was a Poll so where does Jim's "referendum" come from – Go back and check Big Mick. This is just another example of Jim Carroll putting words into my mouth then taking me to task for it. The clown even trips himself up in the last sentence quoted above when he does get it right and asks who were asked to take part in the poll.

"The men who threw the concrete and killed the taxi driver were punished"
•        I missed a bit when I wrote that – it should read "The 'TWO' men...."
Again, are you going to judge the actions of all the miners on the actions of these men – who were punished for their crime?

As far as I am aware I have not condemned all miners on the actions of these men. IIRC Captain Birdseye posted about remembering miners killed by policemen – There were none by the way. I posted to mention those killed by miners deserved to be remembered too.

•        "As for the "scab driver who crushed the picket to death", what should he have been punished for??"
Maybe nothing, but as the event took place in the presence of police who were directing the vehicles, at the very least there should have been an enquiry into the incident which included the behaviour of the police at the scene – there wasn't – or maybe you can tell us otherwise."

It is standard procedure for any RTA involving a fatality that a full investigation is carried out into the nature and circumstances of the death, such an investigation was carried out into the death of Joe Green at Ferrybridge Power Station on 15th June 1984, Joe Green was buried seven days later on 22nd June, 1984.

It is standard procedure for any fatal accident at the workplace to be fully investigated by the Health & Safety Executive and by the police.

It is law in England and Wales that any unnatural death is subject to a Coroner's Inquest into the circumstances and nature of that death.

While those present picketing the Power Station at Ferrybridge on the 15th June 1984 could demonstrate peacefully, they could not obstruct the road and they could not infringe the human rights of those lawfully going about their business, in this case drivers delivering fuel to the Power Station.

•        "The picket who died should not have been where the driver could have run over him."
Describes every road accident that ever happened; it also sums up Thatcherism (and gangsterism) perfectly – "do as you're told and you won't get hurt".

Rather over-dramatic comparisons there don't you think? Mind you it would appear that if you have to be restrained from getting in the way of a 32 tonne truck fully laden then the "do as you're told and you won't get hurt" advice would appear to be warranted.

•        "scum masquerading as decent people..... "
There goes that contempt for the British working people again – tsk - tsk, you really should make an effort to hide it."

Let's be quite clear on this. That remark, "scum masquerading as decent people.." was aimed at and applies to those such as Bryn Pugh who prior to setting out to lend his "support" on a picket line, took a hat pin dipped it in excrement and carried it with him to the picket line/demonstration where the intended use of the hat pin was to stick it into a police officer or his horse. Here again we have another example of Jim Carroll putting words into my mouth and attributing to me opinions that I have most certainly not stated.

•        My main difference with Trolleybus here is that he is prepared (quite rightly) to condemn the killing of a taxi driver, but justify that of a picket – I condone neither. Though I do concede that it could be argued that those who threw the block and the scab driver were acting (albeit from different points of view) out of frustration in order to defend their way of life and feed their families, while the police were 'just obeying orders' – pretty much as the SS claimed after the war!

Ah another funny version of my Mudcat name, Jim-lad, you taking counselling for that?? Oh by the bye where do I "justify" the death of Joe Green?? Maybe you can point that out to me Big Mick? I do not believe that I have done so. Rightly, in the case of the TWO miners who killed the taxi driver, they were charged and jailed for manslaughter, as a result of a coroners inquest into the death of Mr. Wilkie where it was established that he had been killed unlawfully by person or persons unknown. The subsequent police investigation resulted in the arrest of the TWO men. In the case of Joe Green his death was found on investigation to have been accidental, therefore there were no charges to answer and no-one was arrested or convicted.

The TWO men Jim-lad went out to deliberately cause injury, they did not set out from their homes that morning with peaceful intent. The driver of the truck delivering fuel to Ferrybridge Power Station on the 15th June, 1984 was going about his lawful business, he had no intent whatsoever to cause harm to anyone or anything. If you are unable to differentiate between the two, then you have no business questioning anyone's "moral compass". The police presence at the Power Station in Ferrybridge that day was to control the picket and ensure that the rights of people to pursue their lawful employment without threat or intimidation were protected. Your attempt to present both cases as being similar is ludicrous.

•        For 'Democratic Mineworkers Union' read 'Maggie's Miners' – most major industrial action produces its counter-action of scabs – wonder what became of them after we lost our mining industry – I seem to remember some sort of financial scandal...... nah, couldn't be!!!!

The Democratic Union of Mineworkers came into being Jim-Lad because Arthur Scargill refused point blank to hold a national ballot of mineworkers on support for strike action. His reason for not putting it to the members of the Union was because he knew damn well that they wouldn't have gone for it.

•        "Tell us all why British Industry should pay £250/ton for coal when they could get it from elsewhere for £8/ton........."
Totally agree with Jack on the ethical question of buying cheap.

There may well be ethical questions involved in placing contracts for supply of raw materials, but to take it to the extent of paying 30 times what you have to smacks of lunatic irresponsibility.

•        "The choice for British industry was quite stark and simple you either pay £250 per ton for British coal or you pay £8 per ton for Australian coal."
At the time of the miners strike one of the chief suppliers of coal was Poland (as far as I know Poland is still a big supplier) where wages and working conditions were, and by all reports, still are - appalling.

Let's see Jim-lad, the period of the strike was 1984-1985 correct?? I would agree that during that period conditions in Poland were appalling, due mainly to their Soviet backed Communist Government and during the specific period mentioned wasn't Poland under martial law?? Now how could that possibly happen in "the workers paradise"??

•        "Tell us all why the British Taxpayer had to subsidise British Steel to the tune of millions per day."
Why indeed, when we could purchase steel (as Britain does, along with many other goods) from democratic China where the workers live in luxury and work under idyllic conditions?"

What you mean that the people who live and work in the "Democratic People's Republic of China" are not living in "the worker's paradise"?? But I am gratified that here again you condemn the Communist system of government and its ruthless exploitation of their own people.

•        "Who knows, maybe some of the beneficiaries of this 'arrangement' are the Tibetans! The only reason that Britain can purchase more cheaply from these countries is that by and large the workers there are treated like shit and by supporting such behaviour the British Governments become part of it."

And what would all those Chinese workers do if the rest of the world did not buy from them?? I would also venture to point out the obvious that Britain is not the only country to trade with "the workers paradise", nor can it influence in any real terms what happens within China – that will have to be done by the people of China if, as and when they get the opportunity to do so – don't hold your breath, as the "communist elite" who rule China do not intend letting go the reins of power any time in the near future.

•        "And then of course there's the economic wisdom of shutting down your home industries and relying on imports – the results of which we are about to find out with a vengeance via the current recession."

So it's economic wisdom to run home industries at a thundering great loss, in order that the workers can produce stuff that nobody wants at prices nobody can afford. Jobs for life eh Jim-lad? Psst Jim, the UK has always relied on imports, and the world owes nobody a living, nothing new there.

•        "Being an atheist, my one regret is that 'practicing Christian' Margaret Thatcher, who will die shortly (I believe she has requested a state funeral – it seems that Terabyte is not the only one with an over-inflated view of his own importance), like her mass-murderer Chilean friend, will not receive her just reward in heaven for the misery and suffering she caused the vast majority of the people of these islands - pity. I guess I'll have to make do with the beautiful memory of her leaving Downing Street in tears (like a spoilt child after having her favourite toy confiscated), when she was given the bums rush by her fellow turds."

Good heavens another irrelevant left-wing rant coupled up with another personal attack, keep it up Jim-lad, its good for a laugh, but it could be said that you're in danger of becoming a bitter man. By the bye the "misery and suffering" she caused the "majority of the people of these islands" – Left-Wing Myth. Shall we compare unemployment figures from 1979 to 1991 to what had gone on in the years before?? How about inflation?? Tell us again Jim how often did Maggie have to go to the IMF for a bail-out loan for the UK??

The rest of your post meaningless, emotive left-wing crap.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 10:37 AM

Jim Carroll:
It was no great surprise to us when we read that quite a few London Police had been requested (not ordered, not disciplined and certainly not dismissed) to cease their membership of the then very active National Front.
You don't say whether you believe the police should have been ordered to dissociate themselves from the National Front, or if you are complaining about the infringement of their right to belong to any political party of their choosing.
I assume it's the former and you would deny them the very rights of self-expression which you claim they clamp down on for others!


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Stu
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 10:08 AM

"Personally, I think that the Capitalist ststem has simply become unsustainable, regardless of whether a Consevative or Socialist govt are in power.

The point surely is, what are you "wits" going to put in its place?"


Given the fact the banks have taken a whole wodge of taxpayers money and done sod all except withdraw help for small businesses (120 a day closing) and still pay themselves nice healthy bonuses it strikes me as bloody obvious: regulation of the capitalist system. People cannot be trusted to play fair and act responsibly in business, and it seems the richer they are the less interest in any social responsibility they have.

Seeing as right-wingers are constantly bleating on about how we have to hammer home the responsibilities to society of the drunken, boorish underclass with their 13 year-old mothers and sponging 'jobseekers' it's high time those no less boorish louts at the other end of the income ladder got a sharp rap around the ear and were made to start acting with some integrity. Unfortunately, Thatcherites don't view integrity and morality as desirable personality traits and so the New Labour suits still have their lips firmly puckered onto the arses of the industry grandees they claim to be sorting out.

Tezza's assertion "well we've been here before and the same system gets us out of the mess . . . exactly as it has done before." only goes to prove the point - the system is fucked without regulation. Boom and bust is not a great system, and the fallacy of Thatcher's 'trickle 'down' effect has been proved with the emergence of an underclass of people who feel utterly detached from the rest of society and 30 years on from her instigating policies that saw perfectly profitable companies go to the wall as their cashflow dried up, we're watching it all happen again.

The real problem is all the main political parties all adhere to some sort of Thatcherite economic policy, so ingrained in the culture has it become. Even the Lib Dems are now broadly Thatcherite in this approach (with the possible exception of Vince Cable, the lone voice of sanity amongst the babble of confused, bullshitting politicians) and this means there is no real viable alternative and I personally believe the return to state intervention in the running of the banks is more of a short-term fudge than a genuine attempt to regulate the activities of the banks; is there any evidence of ministers actually imposing their will on the fat cats of the banking boardrooms? I can't see any, just Darling on the TV spewing his usual trite claptrap whilst Brown whinges that it's really not his fault, as he hangs onto the apron strings of the bankers.

Without state intervention the capitalist system cannot regulate itself and curb it's worst excesses. Without a government committed to imposing social responsibility upon the capitalist system this is going to happen again and again (not a good thing Tezza, especially for those at the bottom of the pile - especially in a global marketplace), and the gap between rich and poor will keep growing.

The only way capitalism will ever work is within a socialist framework, and at the moment there are no politicians who can offer that as an alternative.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 07:34 AM

Thanks for the post, Lox, and for your post, Jim, with its cogent argument.

Now I know, Lox, why the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, to deal with 'New Age' Travellers, was enacted.

(Not that I think your little demo had anything directly to do with it, mind :-) )

'Twas ever thus. See a problem, get an Act of Parliament to sort it.

Simple.

Eh, Pterodactyl ?

Seems to me that for Syllabus and his ilk, there is only one commandment

THOU SHALT NOT !

(with apologies to that great left wing playwright Dylan Thomas).

I became a Lawyer because I reasoned that the only way to alter a system is to be inside it. Jaysus bless my innocence. I had as much chance of altering a fundamentally flawed system as I have of my arsehole healing up. Today I am the in-house Lawyer for a not-for-profit outfit.

The likes of Carol Thatcher, Trolleybus and their ilk can be likened to the Hydra. Cut one head off and two grow in its place. As one grows older, there are only so many times one can thole a hammering

off the guardians of law and order. Heigh ho - 'twas ever thus.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Feb 09 - 05:35 AM

Thanks Lox; reminiscent of a number of incidents we witnessed with the Travellers in London. Your description of the 'sensible' policeman is borne out by what we were told - "The older ones were ok, firm but fair - it was the young ones that caused the trouble".
Before the 1968 Caravan and Camping Act was repealed (by the Tories) it was the law that Travellers camping illegally had to be given 14 days notice, so the practice was to move on to a piece of waste ground, wait for the notice to be served, serve out the notice and move on - ad-infinitum.
Our friends were camped at Shepherds, Bush, under the flyover on an L-shaped piece of ground. The police and bailiffs turned up to evict them and duly ticked each one off as they left the site, not noticing that they were driving round the block and re-entering the site out of sight on the hidden leg of the L - thus gaining another 14 days legal camping. Unbelievably, after that time was up the process was repeated in exactly the same manner so the Travellers got 40-odd days stopping in all - not the brightest buttons in the sewing box.
In the seventies one of the Traveller organisations began a campaign to draw the attention to the shortage of sites; by law, each borough had to provide 1 site for (I think) 14 caravans - most didn't.
The organisation would select a very prominent site and move a family caravan onto it. This was usually a public park, garden or playing field - the idea being to create the maximum publicity, get into the local press or radio. The 'protest' usually lasted no longer than a few hours and the Travellers would move off voluntarily once the point was made.
One of our singers, Little Bill Cassidy, was chosen and put on a public park in one of the posher parts of London, Harrow-on-the-Hill.
The residents, of course, complained to the police, who panicked and pulled an enormous rubbish container across the entrance to the park, making it impossible for any more Travellers to get on, but also for Little Bill and his family to get off.
Because of an administration cock-up, much to the annoyance to the residents and the Travellers, the skip remained in position for over a week.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 06:43 PM

I went on a demo back in 1993 when I was a young idealistic student (as opposed to my current status as an old cynical student).

A designiated Site of Special Scientific Interest was to be bulldozed to make way for a road and some friends and I decided we were going to do our bit to stop it.

There were 11 of us on a coach which had been converted into a mobile home and which was in fact the home of the driver.

When we arrived at our destination, the demonstration which we thought we would find simply hadn't turned up.

A solitary member of friends of the earth was stood in a siding by the road, with his banner, looking quite dejected that his publicity efforts had gone so unrewarded - that is until we turned up.

Not knowing what to do, the driver of the coach, a narcissistic publicity hound who was in his 30's (the rest of us were around 19 and 20) decided to drive into a neighbouring field to set up camp.

Soon enough, the farmer who owned the field notified the police, who arrived in numerous meat wagons and cordoned off the gate.

Tresspass being a civil offfence, they couldn't come onto the field to arrest us and couldn't evict us without an eviction order, so it was that we sat on our bus in the middle of a field drinking tea while a crowd of coppers stood at the gate of the field not really knowing what to do next.

The driver at this point decided that he was going to go over to the police to "negotiate". The rest of us, uninsured to drive the bus, sat in bemusement as he rode over to the gate on his bike and was promptly arrested and thrown in the back of one of the meatwagons by the inspector in charge of operations.

And so the farce carried on ... the inspector got the permission of the farmer to come onto the field, but was not entitled to come onto the bus without our permission and besides, while the driver had been arrested for criminal damage after driving through the fence to get onto the field, as passengers, there were no grounds to arrest us so an absurd stalemate ensued, in which a preposterous red faced inspector shouted empty threats at us and got more and more angry out in the cold while we drank tea and smoked handrolled "cigarettes" and marvelled at the scene unfolding in front of us.

We had no driver so we couldn't go anywhere even if we had wanted to or been capable of doing anything about it.

Anyway, finally the inspector was relieved by the area superintendant who knocked on the door and asked if it would be ok to come on board to have a chat and a cuppa.

We agreed and he came in and sat down at the table. We made him a cuppa and started to chat. He apologized for arresting the driver and we apologized for his behaviour. He agreed to let the driver go without charge if we'd agree to drive off the field and keep him on a shorter leash.

This was fine by us and when the driver was brought back to us we stuck to our side of the bargain and the super stuck to his - having taken stock of the situation and seen that on the one hand we were totally harrmless and on the other that he needed us to cooperate with each other if he wanted to find an effective solution to his problem.

That is my funny story and not entirely helpful in the context of the discussions going on here, however something did come out of it which is directly relevant to some of the points being discussed.

While the super was on the bus, we talked about numerous things in a pretty open and honest way, and one of the issues we spoke about was that of police brutality. It was with great regret that he spoke, at some length, about his concerns that there were officers who joined the police because they enjoyed a good ruck and liked to give 'it' to the troublemakers.

He was concerned that such officers join up with the intention of getting into the riot squads and that they are ignored by their superiors as they indulge their taste for violence. He spoke on a personal level about his distaste at the 'strategies' employed at the beanfield and at twyford down where Group 4 security were ignored by the police as they beat up the protesters there regardless of the presence of kids.

I have a friend who has spoken about his experience at the beanfield which involved lying in a ball on the ground trying to cover his head without leaving his crotch exposed as he was being belted with truncheons at both ends before they took him off to a remote police station and kicked him out in the early evening in the middle of nowhere with nothing in his pockets and no way of getting anywhere except by walking and with nowhere to stay or money to pay for food or accomodation.

Just thought all that might help with the whole police professionalism thing.

Oh - and to round off the story,

We kept our driver on a leash and he kept his inspector on a leash and we all lived happily ever after.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 03:35 PM

Sorry, ake, but his remarks have been answered and he chooses not to respond with anything other than his rightist twaddle, as opposed to answering points made. He continues along on his own twisted constructs. I don't believe that his points haven't been addressed.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 03:21 PM

"Witty" remarks are not good enough, Teribus's remarks require to be answered.
Personally, I think that the Capitalist ststem has simply become unsustainable, regardless of whether a Consevative or Socialist govt are in power.

The point surely is, what are you "wits" going to put in its place?


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 03:20 PM

Thank you Mick - hope all is well with you.

Terminus:
Anybody who has ever been involved in an event which involves mass policing, even something as innocuous as the Aldermaston Marches, an Anti-Apartheid demonstration, or even The Notting Hill Carnival, can hardly have failed to have noticed the behaviour of the police – at best, distant and somewhat unfriendly, but quite often openly hostile.
I used to wonder why this was until I became friendly with a young policeman who used to turn up to The Singers Club occasionally. He had joined the force in the North East of England and had regarded the job as a public service – a village bobby – but had moved to London to further his career.
He said how, during training was taught to treat any non-conformist with suspicion, as a potential troublemaker. He explained that any white person mixing with blacks should be regarded as a druggie – either a taker or dealer – or both.   It was no great surprise to us when we read that quite a few London Police had been requested (not ordered, not disciplined and certainly not dismissed) to cease their membership of the then very active National Front.
Gerry was stationed around the Kings Cross area, and one night, after a few drinks he told us he was extremely disturbed by the behaviour of some of his colleagues during 'slack periods'. To ease the boredom he described how they would hang around the local Rowton House after closing time (Sunday nights were favourite) and pick up daft-drunk down-and-outs going back to their beds for the night, take them to the station and charge them with being drunk and disorderly. There, they would strip-search them, sober them up with a bucket of cold water and the mouthier ones would be given 'a slapping', not enough to do any real damage, but enough to humiliate and frighten them 'for a laugh'. When he complained he was told by a friendly desk sergeant that whistleblowers were quite likely to be given 'the treatment' which apparently involved having excrement spread on your sandwich while your attention was distracted. Persistent whistle-blowing could lead to your having your vehicle 'adjusted'.   
Gerry lasted about 8 months in The Smoke before he packed it in and became a social worker, thereby earning the contempt of our rightist friend and his storm-troopers, as a "do-gooder" no doubt!
My first close-up experience was over the seven years I worked as a pub maintenance electrician for a major brewery. The first thing I was shown by my employer was the list of pubs which were difficult to work in because they didn't close at the official times because, thanks to 'financial negotiations', the police took no notice of the 'irregular hours'. This included the nearest pub to the office where off duty police would gather to watch confiscated pornographic videos.
Watch this space.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 03:07 PM

Jim, what would one expect from a pig but an oink?


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 01:03 PM

Torybus - is that it?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 12:21 PM

Jack, politicians irrespective of party once elected have never given a hoot about "ordinary" people, or has that fact escaped your notice, certainly hasn't escaped mine.

Oh and this mess we are currently in, well we've been here before and the same system gets us out of the mess, unlike the systems employed to fuel the economies of the former Soviet Block. "Our" system can take an occasional hammering and survive, as it will this time exactly as it has done before.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 11:33 AM

"By the way, I understood Bryn to be a member of the legal profession – I certainly never knew he was a miner."

Quite right Jim, Bryn Pugh has stated that he is a member of the legal profession, who in a thread on this forum boasted about joining in on the picket lines and preparing said hat pins dipped in shit, it seems with full intent to stick them into police horses or maybe even policemen. As I said previously it smacks of premeditation and as such should be condemned. Bryn Pugh and his pals are the scum masquerading as decent people, they weren't miners, they weren't suffering anything, they went out with the sole intent of causing trouble, equipping themselves to do so in a very mean and vicious manner. Maybe the pair of you can come up with a song about it.


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Subject: RE: carol thatcher death threats
From: Stu
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 11:29 AM

"Sugarfoot Jack/Strindsinger/ Frank Hamiltom or whoever"

Pardon? It's me Tezza, stigWeard, just changed my name me old mucker.

Where are you getting your information on imported coal from? Even the Daily Torygraph, organ of choice for lining the hamster cages of wannabe middle-class middle-management peabrains across the UK doesn't mention Australian coal in a recent article, suggesting most comes from the environmentally destructive process of open-cast mining.

This is going to shock you, but cheapest is not always best. This coal is cheap because whoever mines it doesn't care about the safety of their miners, the environmental damage caused by it's extraction and although you can ignore this because it's happening to foreigners miles away who you never have to look in the face, what goes around comes around and this'll come back and bite you in the arse.

Seeing as the unregulated capitalism you love so much as led us to into this mess I'm surprised you are quite so vociferous in your defence of the system. Like I said - they don't give two shade of shit about you, so why support them?

Margaret Thatcher never gave a shit about the ordinary people of this, or any other country. Including both you and me.


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Mudcat time: 1 June 11:10 AM EDT

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