BS: Legal action over BNP membership

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Leadfingers
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:55 AM

Scary statstic from a few year back - More than 60% of SUN readers thought it was a Left Wing Newspaper !

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:35 AM

hardy - Noone would ever steal your job from my company - I wouldn't even dream of employing anyone as illiterate and ignorant as you in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:30 AM

I guess my Mauritian dentist took away "hardy"'s job in the dental profession.

The idea of "hardy" seeing to my teeth is giving me the cold shivers.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:13 AM

"Anyone as illiterate as that wouldn't be able to work out how to switch a computer on. "

Anyone as ignorant as that isn't even an animal - he/she is a plant.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 06:12 AM

GUEST Hardy. This has got to be a wind-up. Anyone as illiterate as that wouldn't be able to work out how to switch a computer on.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:59 AM

The problem is the BNP (under another manifestation, perhaps) will always be with us. The way to reduce their effect is not to attempt to ban them - a legal minefield which may well backfire - but to make them unneccesary. People turn to these groups when times get hard and they feel there is no one to represent them. Who have we got in 'official' politics: Pa Broon, who supports the bankers, abolished the 10p tax band etc etc, or Dave Snooty, who is quite unknown - and a Tory. To add to this, the recent expenses scandal has discredited politicians even further. So don't vote for the usual candidates but vote for someone who will look after the common man (and woman) and who knows the cause of all our problems: immigrants or some other minority group (not bankers, heavens no!) I understand Martin Bell (the Man in the White suit who isn't Alec Guiness) and Terry Waite are forming an 'honourable' political party to divert votes from the BNP; this would seem to be a way forward.
Intelligence tests have nothing do do with intelligence tests and only measure the ability to do intelligence tests. I remember questions like: 'tea is to leaves as coffee is to....'; in 40's Britain that measures social class. And 'Can a cat see in the dark; yes or no'. An 'intelligent' child would surely either say that's a silly questions or give the answer that would be considered wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Paul Burke
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:46 AM

Unfortunately the "man in the street" often believes in the same myths as the bozo below, unsurprisingly as they are assiduously peddled by the redtops. But just as the idiot is too lazy to spell or punctuate, he (or she) is too lazy to think.

- They have their own laws. No they don't.
- They get free houses. No they don't.
- They take our jobs. Guilty as charged. It was an illegal black smelly ragheaded immigrant who shut down the mines, dismantled our manufacturing industry, and collapsed the financial system, wasn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:40 AM

It may, I suppose, be interesting to enquire why Guest Hardy writes as poorly as he does, when, for example, my dentist (Sikh) succeeded in qualifying as a dentist, and her sister as a surgeon.

Should we suspect that Sikhs are genetically superior to the indigenous English (well, OK there are arguments over exactly who are or were the aboriginal people of England, and oddly many of the English nazis model some parts of their personae on the invading and conquering Germanic tribes)?

Hardy, your supposed facts have long been shown to be false.

The Talmudic (on the one hand) and Koranic (on the other hand) courts derive jurisdiction only by consent of the parties, although I personally believe that there should be something akin to the Unfair Contract Terms Act (or the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regulations) to regulate unjust procedures and outcomes otherwise contrary to the protective panoply of the law of the land. But by way of comparison there is a large body of ecclesiastical law that is indeed not a matter of consensual submission, but part of English law, and I sometimes wonder about that.

Nobody gets free houses. There is always rent, although it may be paid by benefits - the rules for which are the same for all. Immigrants do not automatically get to jump the queue. If their need criteria entitle them, then they get their entitlement (as does anyone else).

You cannot simultaneously say that the immigrants are taking "our" jobs and "sponging off benefits". If they are doing jobs then they are contributing to the economic wellbeing of the country (and paying taxes towards their infrastructure needs, like everyone else).

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Gervase
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:22 AM

Blimey, aren't these BNP supporters unbelievably bloody ignorant? Little wonder that they have such big chips on their shoulders when they can't spell and are barely coherent.
The good thing is that they're not going to make many converts when the man in the street can't even understand what theyr'e on about.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:52 PM

I guess that "Best of British" does not encompass the language arts.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:52 PM

GUEST,hardy: Did you lose your punctuation keys?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,hardy
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:47 PM

hey we dont need anybody to fight for our beilfs about other ethnic minorities we deserve to have our own opinion on people coming into our country and having there own laws and getting free houses etc... stealing our jobs is another issue we got to stop this from happening this wont happen in any of their countries so why does it have to be ours i just want the government to see this to show themselves what they are doing to our country its a disgrace and they need to give their heads a shake its down right dispicable.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:47 AM

Richard Bridge. "But none of those things make the members of one race of less value as a person than those of another..........."

Amen to the power of however many times you say that.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:46 AM

There's only one race - and that's Human.

John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:28 AM

The "intelligence test" debate has been long and heated and continues. If it is going to be pursued on the 'cat it really needs a different thread. Plainly there are some obvious and inheritable racial differences - colour of skin for example (and I know a young woman who is insistent about another, and diligently continues to research it, for which I do not think any the less of her). The relative scholastic and entrepreneurial success rates (in the UK) demand some explanation. But some of the most intelligent, able and motivated academic students I ever met in the UK were Shell scholars from Nigeria.

The apparent prevalence of certain types of athletic success is difficult to study, not least because the tendency of the able to enter sport may be seen as a response to their exclusion on grounds of prejudice from other areas of endeavour.

But none of those things make the members of one race of less value as a person than those of another, and it seems most probable that cultural behaviour patterns are learned not inherited (and can therefore change).

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:17 AM

Emma B. "However, a woman named Helen Colclough, of the same address as Helen Forster, was registered as a member and activist for the BNP. Last week a Kent Police spokeswoman confirmed that Helen Forster and Helen Colclough are, in fact, the same person."

A lot of BNP members use false names. The fact that the BNP denied this person's membership, and appear not to have expelled her, shows the sort of scum we're dealing with.

Peace. "..... a professor in California who argued that there WERE racial characteristics."

A number of social psychologists, of whom Eysenck was probably the leader, have argued in favour of differing intelligence levels between different races. But of course social psychology and social anthropology are two contrasting disciplines.

I confess I know next to nothing about social psychology, so I can't comment on their methods or findings. However, I do recall that other social scientists were extremely sceptical, regarding the work of Eysenck and co. as biased and ethnocentric. EG., their use of "Western European" IQ tests on kids who didn't come from Western Europe.

Can anybody else throw some more light on this?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 01:33 AM

Maybe so Richard - I just dimly remembered reading something about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 12:43 AM

I do not follow the argument that the Flynn effect resolved the difficulties about Eysenck's theories on racial intelligence. I am aware of some Flynn effect studies arguing a large increase in black intelligence, but the racist Jensen criticised them on at least superficially convincing grounds relating to the exclusion of data.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bobad
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 11:07 PM

And along the same lines we have J. Philippe Rushton at the University of Western Ontario. Both he and Jensen received large grants from the Pioneer Fund,a U.S. non-profit foundation established in 1937 "to advance the scientific study of heredity and human differences."

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bobad
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 10:53 PM

There was also this guy Arthur Jensen at U Cal Berkley who was a proponent of race based differences in intelligence.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 10:41 PM

Wasn't he the IQ bloke? I think they straightened that business out with the Flynne effect didn't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 09:12 PM

Eysenck.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 06:48 PM

"But if you know of any anthropologist who has publicly used the mass of evidence which social anthropology has accumulated, to argue that there are innate differences between different races, I'd be glad if you could tell me. I'd also be interested to see how he or she did it."

I don't think it was a social anthropologist, but I'll dig for it. Was a professor in California who argued that there WERE racial characteristics. I know he caused a stir at the time but the university had to keep him on. I'll get back to you. As a BTW, I had not meant to single out anthropologists. My apologies if you took it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 04:38 PM

I'm not making excuses for them - just looking at the bigger picture. Or rambling like an old fart, depending on your point of view.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 04:28 PM

Oh no, they only join some gangs.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 04:25 PM

There is no correlation between political polarity and intelligence level. All forms of extremism are dangerous, and to me, equally undesirable. Unfortunately the 'centre' point of British politics has moved quite distinctly to the right over the last thirty years. That is the real problem, of which the illusory 'rise' of the BNP is a particularly ugly symptom. I'm old enough to remember when the 'extremist element' (to put it politely) seemed mostly to be left-wing supporters inadvertently giving socialism a bad name. These people don't really care what they are supporting, it's just attention-seeking 'gang' stuff. They are being manipulated, but isn't that what the game of politics is all about?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 02:30 PM

In my hurry I only half completed a senence in my previous post, so for those who are wondering what this meant:

"As for the BNP membership and the legal action, a simple argument against the BNP's view that anyone other than whites joining up would be to say that A British National Party should represent British Nationals."

It should have read:

>As for the BNP membership and the legal action, a simple argument against the BNP's view that anyone other than whites joining up must be a troublemaker would be to say that A British National Party should be comprised of British Nationals and should represent the interests of British Nationals.<

Just as the green party is comprised of those representing the interests of the environment, and the liberal party represents liberal views.

They would then be forced to form a party with an honest name to make their membership comply with their current set of criteria - something like the "whites only" party.

We could then point at them and laugh as they try to invent the wheel, discover fire and watch in wonder as aeroplanes fly overhead.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 02:22 PM

"The problem is that if people don't discredit off repeated false claims like that one, they may take root and come to be accepted as fact."

This is the key to the anti BNP campaign - to expose lies and inform about the truth.


As for the BNP membership and the legal action, a simple argument against the BNP's view that anyone other than whites joining up would be to say that A British National Party should represent British Nationals.


Therefore, once they have removed their whites only policy, it should be the responsibility of every British National; White, Black, Brown, Liberal, Gay, Disabled etc to join and help shape its future.


I believe this is a realistic campaign to pursue and that with sufficient numbers it would be unstoppable. If the BNP membership is currently 30,000 then 100,000 antifascists from around the country would easily overwhelm and disenfranchise the Fascists from politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 01:51 PM

BTW - this is the same Cllr Golding, who was elected in February, and, commenting on the video of the burning of a Gollywog at Codnor, said the views of the people involved in the mock trial were not 'representative of' the BNP.

He said: "If you subtract these morons from our 13,000 members it is something like 0.01 per cent of the party."

Despite claims that BNP members at the festival at Codnor gave Nazi-style salutes and shouted Sieg Heil, and music with racist lyrics supporting Hitler was played, Cllr Golding said he was at the festival but was not aware of the racist activity, and he says the party 'is not racist.'

Cllr Golding also says the BNP is for white British people, so there would be no reason for non-whites to join other than to cause trouble within the party.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 12:59 PM

Nick Griffin has cynically sought to convince would be supporters that the party is no longer a racist organization and has even put his bodyguards, heavily tatooed with swastikas and 'Hitler' into smart suits.

Recently the psrty sought to disassociate themselves from Helen Forster convicted of intimidating an Asian mother and branded a 'BNP mum' by the media

"She was the lone adult urging the hate-filled kids - some only 10 - to shout abuse during the siege at the home of terrified Meherjan Miah, who had previously lodged a complaint to police about a racially-aggravated assault."

BNP mum Helen Forster led kids' race attack

In response, Paul Golding, councillor for the St Mary's ward of Swanley, made a video in which he claimed the reports were "outrageous lies".

The video was posted on the BNP website and YouTube. In it, Cllr Golding said Forster "is not a member of the British National Party and she never has been". He added: "I contacted our membership department and asked them to check all of our records going back many years and she is not on there whatsoever. I spoke to Andy McBride, the south east regional organiser, and he said that no-one in the whole region had ever heard of her."

Cllr Golding went to Forster's home in Park Place and interviewed her on her doorstep, and she too called the reports "lies". The 32-year-old said: "I was not a paid member, I was just a graphic designer. I produced leaflets."

However, a woman named Helen Colclough, of the same address as Helen Forster, was registered as a member and activist for the BNP. Last week a Kent Police spokeswoman confirmed that Helen Forster and Helen Colclough are, in fact, the same person.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 11:44 AM

Thanks Lox, you put it well.

And Jade, thanks also. I agree (just reviewed my PM to you about it last night BTW, it made absolutely NO sense whatever - Gin addled!).

An *individual* not getting on well in formal education for personal reasons (I was close to falling out of it early on too), in no way demonstrates ignorance in that person (you express yourself with much intelligence and insight). My old Dad's spelling is utterly abysmal (he asks me how to spell one syllable words sometimes) and he HATED school, yet he became a designer and inventor.) but *entire communities* doing so, say's to me that something must surely be up there.

I've glanced over the boards of White Power type sites when people have linked them here, and virtually *none of them* have even a basic grasp of the English language. To learn and understand, we must be able to both reason adequately, and to communicate effectively. Spelling is merely one *superficial* indicator of those capacities, and not a foolproof one by any means, but neverthelss it can I think offer a very general guide to the level of education and therefore capacity for reasoning and understanding of people that get involved in racist type organisations.

Sadly IMO, bar the points previously elaborated by Lox, this also means that all the proofs and evidence that people post up here, to refute the claims that right wing media spout out, will fall on deaf ears if the education of those targeted implies that they will very likely be unable to engage with those materials in any meaningful way.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 11:03 AM

Here's a link to a recent Mudcat thread that is related to this subject:

thread.cfm?threadid=120026

WW2 made whites-only


**

If the legal action over the BNP membership goes forward & is successful, I would hope that "party" would have less money to spread the lie that only White soldiers fought for Britain in World War 2.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 09:13 AM

In all, 87,000 Indian soldiers were killed in WW2 according to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
Of the 5,500 Indian army deaths in Italy 122 were under the age of 18 and 90 of these were Muslim.
Among them were three 15-year-olds -- Amir Khan, from Attock, Gulab Khan, from Rawalpindi, and Mian Khan, from Kohat.

from

"Untold" story of WW2 stirs Muslim youth pride

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:55 AM

I didn't see the posting from GUEST,BNP 4 LIFE, BETTER YET NF FOR LIFE!!! and presumably it has now been removed. Good!!! The couple of quotes from it above were enough turn my stomach.

Somebody should tell this crud, whoever he is, that there is a programme on BBC 1 next week called The Muslim Tommies. Here's the programme synopsis.

"Much has been made of the threat posed by Islamic fundamentalists to the security of Britain. But what is often forgotten is that Muslims have fought on behalf of Britain for hundreds of years; thousands have lost their lives in the process.
"Using simple reconstructions, this film gives voice to some of the Muslim soldiers who fought in the trenches of France during the First World War as part of the Indian Corps. Censors office reports from the time included many translated letters which document what life was like on the front line.
"The letters contain fascinating but often heart-breaking details about the religious practices, sense of identity, hopes, fears, injuries and brave actions of the soldiers from 1914 - 1918."

Yes, that's right. Muslims who fought and died for this country and whose descendants are now having their religion thrown back in their faces. What would they say now if they realised that a bunch of totalitarian hate filled Fascists are planning to take it over.

We're going to fight these bastards all the way down the line.

"Until not one Fascist is left on the earth." Ewan MacColl.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:42 AM

Two extracts from the BBC archives (WW2 memories - Black and Asian Involvement) used for teaching purposes

Experiences of a Black British Serviceman

"There was no military tradition in my family. I enlisted because of patriotism and adventure. The West Indies gave full support to the mother country, Great Britain, in her conflict with Germany. ...

In the RAF my unit picked up aircrews shot down or ditched at sea. ... We also laid flare paths for the flying boats to land or take off at night and transported aircrews and maintenance crews to planes. Our other jobs included refuelling, re-loading bombs and towing sea-planes to dry docks. ...

There was no official racial discrimination in the services, but seniority promotion for a black serviceman was rare, even if you were qualified to do the job. Excuses for non-promotion were always there, so you were simply allowed to carry on in the ranks, regardless of your ability. They didn't want black personnel in charge of white servicemen.

But we were treated very well by white civilians because they were aware that you had left your safe country to face danger and help them in their time of need. And white British servicemen, in my case, were fine. In the navy, on a small ship, you have to live close, so you automatically become a close unit - whether afloat or ashore; any difficulties that arise are quickly sorted out. In the RAF, again when on air-sea rescue duties, you are together as a crew. Most of the time, I was the only black, so no problem, but when I was on other duties and had to mix, there were some problems - mostly caused by stereotyping. People would say things like 'Because you're black you don't need to wash' and 'Where did you learn to speak English, if you live in trees?' At first I took offence, but after deep consideration I came to the conclusion that it was best for me to try and re-educate my colleagues, which I did. ...

I got along fine with the white Commonwealth personnel because apparently they had been warned not to compare West Indians with their native population. A few did step out of line, but were dealt with accordingly.
But I didn't get along with white American GIs. They were reluctant to accept the fact that the British black servicemen were a different race in social outlook.
Many of the white American GIs were from the southern states of America and, although they were in Europe (a very different social scene), they couldn't face the changes that took place. So we had open wars, especially in dance halls and various places of entertainment, with the local whites as back-up on our side"


The Dazzling Black American - a child's memory

"He leaned down from his jeep and scooped me up into the passenger seat and I was dazzled. Gleaming white smile, flashing brown eyes, shining brown skin and a beautiful uniform. He was the first American that I ever saw in real life. ...

We loved those first American soldiers and did not even think about colour except that they were black and we were white, a natural state of affairs. ... There was a lot of resentment and jealousy among the local men and British servicemen because the Yanks were more confident, had more money and were much smarter. ...

Later this became more vitriolic if it was a black American soldier. I am sure this charge was imported by the white Americans, willingly adopted by our people because it gave more spice to the tale, as well as the apparent need to always have a group on which resentment can be focused.
There was no resentment from us because the Americans were particularly kind to children. Where as most local adults had little or no time for children, there was always chewing gum, chocolate and friendliness from these attractive new friends.
They were certainly different if only because they were patient with the many children who appeared as soon as they drove their jeeps into Bluetts Road."

more memories

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:37 AM

The problem is that if people don't discredit off repeated false claims like that one, they may take root and come to be accepted as fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 08:25 AM

think of all the white war veterans who fort the war to save this contry from being invaded, and then the guv does it volentary.
-GUEST,BNP 4 LIFE, BETTER YET NF FOR LIFE!!!

Another reason not to delete racist posts is to keep up with how racists are coaching their rants. Sometimes it may be better to ignore what is written or said, but sometimes it might be a wiser course of action to know what they are saying so that you can easily refute it with facts.

Take for instance the above statement about the reasons why White veterans (from the UK, I presume) fought in the war (which I presume is World War 2). Besides the important fact that there is no way that of knowing the reasons why all White soldiers fought in that war, and besides anecdotal and other evidence for other reasons why White soldiers fought in that war, that statement has a faulty assumption that the only people who fought in that war in Great Britain were White people.

Even today, there may be some people who believe that. For those who may be receptive to reason, here's one website that refutes that pernicious lie with photographs from those times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/06/africa_africa0s_world_war_ii_veterans/html/1.stm

Here's a summary of that photographical exhibition:

"The African soldiers who fought for the British Empire in World War II are remembered in an exhibition at the Imperial War Museum North in Manchester, UK.

"This is the untold story of the forgotten heroes of the Commonwealth," says Zimbabwean artist Raphael Chikukwa, the curator of the exhibition."

-snip-

And this doesn't even address the African-American soldiers who fought in Great Britain and the rest of Europe during World War I (and World War II).

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 07:20 AM

The point was made that Democracy requires a basic minimum of education to function.

This is the key.

Humanity has evolved to a degree that it has developed systems of survival that don't require pillaging, murder, theft, rape, war etc for survival.

We in the west rely on two basic systems of organization within our society.

These exist to allow for the movement of resources and the protection of individuals.

Money and democracy.

There are many views on the best approach to economics and politics, but both arguments now exist within a basic framework of acceptable parameters.

In both areas there are those with extreme views, but more and more western society is tending towards a middle ground.

Those who are unable to function within the economic system fairly resort to theft etc.

Those who are unable to function within the current political parameters resort to wars, rioting, etc.

To be able to function within society, and for the current economic and political system to be able to function smoothly, people need to have a basic understanding of how both work and why they are the way they are.

Politiciaans often talk about the three "R"s, but equally important is an education in politics and economics.

The history andd evolution of political systems and the discussion of political ideas are neglected in our education systems as are the history ad development of our economic systems, and the discussion of different economic theories.

In most political and economic discussions that I participate in, in this forum and elsewhere, people, including myself, espouse ideas and viewpoints that we believe to be original, when in fact they are often just the half understood premisses of one out of many already established economic or political theories.


Most importantly of all however, This lack of education in this respect is deeply compounded by the fact that people are not even forming views based on correct information, but often on fabricated "facts" that they have gleaned from the official information organs in the media.


So if poor peoples political and economic education is based on information received from rags like the mail and the sun, how the hell are they meant to participate in their democracy in any meaningful way?


So when the BNP puts out lies and propaganda about minorities etc and in the proceess pres peoples buttons, how are those poor people meant to know that this infrmation is not true or that the BNP's ideology is reactionary and destructive to the institutions that are keeping us out of the jungle?


I've written this in an unclear way but hopefully the essence of my point is clear enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 05:51 AM

Peace. "Racism isn't the domain of just poorly educated people. I've met university profs who argue in defence of 'apartness' of races; argued from anthropological viewpoints that this race is not as adept as that race at whatever."

Peace, I am a social anthropology graduate and the whole crux of social anthropolgy is that it is social culture which moulds different behaviour patterns among different so called human races, not genetically inherited racial characteristics.

I dare say there are anthropologists out there who are privately unable to reconcile their innate racism with the findings of hundreds of field workers. But if you know of any anthropologist who has publicly used the mass of evidence which social anthropology has accumulated, to argue that there are innate differences between different races, I'd be glad if you could tell me. I'd also be interested to see how he or she did it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 05:32 AM

uneducated doesn't always mean thick. i have no qualifications and got very bored at school, because it seemed to me that they were turning me into a robot, not to question anything.

with regards to reading the offending filth, i think you lokk at the spelling too closely, i had no problem, because i was concentrating on the feel of it, not what was there. it was only when i reread it that i noticed the spelling, as you may have guessed i am not exactly in the position to comment as my spelling has become picked on, in a nice way.

the other worrying thing is that so many ppl use txt speak now, they r so used to it that they don't know how else to do it. am i the only 1 who finds this annoying?

i know we are not suppoessed to question the deleting policy here, but i can't help but think that these racist posts do more to show the dire need to fight them than it does to delete them, pretending that people like that don't exist.

maybe i just need to cut out sleep so i can see what everyone is talking about? NO, i would kill someone!!!! LOL

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 10:00 PM

That's Chongo. He's an exception.

Sorry, they all look alike to me..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:53 PM

Why are you (the collective "you") assuming that ignorant, foul mouthed*, racist poster was a male?

* I didn't quote the entire comment. It was foul.

**

Jeri, I understand the impulse to delete such filth. However, I'm glad that my partial quote of that post wasn't deleted since it shows the racism and ignorance of that BNP member.

And, from other posts I've seen on this forum, that racism, vulgarity, and uneducated writing style is the norm for BNPers.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:41 PM

I agree with you. However, it's obvious--at least to me--that the guy was loaded.

Racism isn't the domain of just poorly educated people. I've met university profs who argue in defence of 'apartness' of races; argued from anthropological viewpoints that this race is not as adept as that race at whatever.

I am aware that England and Wales' educational system has taken a fast ride downhill. It's happening also in NZ, Canada and the USA. I grew up 'learning' and institutional dislike of French speakers. We formed gangs to 'keep ourselves safe'. It was all crap. Took me years to figure that out, but eventually I did. People like those the BNP send here are drunks, reprobates, sexually disfunctional folks who need to dislike someone because they dislike themselves so much. Witness 'Sam' for messed up thinking--he's really a she, but she seems to get her jollies by being thought of as a guy. Whew!

I do not think that better writing would have made that poor person's thoughts any better. BUT, they would have been easier to read.

My grandfather had a grade 3 education. He harboured no ill-will to people of any race or language or creedo, etc. Lack of education does not mean we should accept sloppy thinking from people. Had the poster NOT been a piece of shit as a thinker, I would never have mentioned his writing. Just so you understand that.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:27 PM

Hey Peace,

well I was a bit drunk and daft earlier, I do that sometimes on forums (fora?) but it makes me really upset to think of entire generations who can't spell as well as I did at five years of age, also filled with such hate and bile. In my head, somehow there is a connexion.

I hate the alienating pedantry that can come from some Mudcat members (including my friends) when a fellow poster as much as dots an I in the wrong place, so I find myself at odds somewhat in the matter, and yet it is clear to me, that much racism is expressed in an ugly, inarticulate, and uneducated manner.

Does this suppose, that better expressed racism is somehow preferred?

No, but it does at least (IMO) at least offer a guide to the source.
The working class in the UK are no longer a proud race, Thatcher saw to that, she divided and conquered, and the 'remainder' no longer feel 'worth' shit. So I guess they feel they need to blame someone for their worthlessness. The Mail have been working at helping them find a scapegoat for decades. And it's a brown and nameless scapegoat, like it always has been..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:21 PM

That's Chongo. He's an exception.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:17 PM

I used to be in a band with him back in the 70s.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:14 PM

"He was clever enough to operate a computer.. "

So is this guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 09:08 PM

He was clever enough to operate a computer..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 08:59 PM

Crow Sister: I assume "council estate" is perhaps what here would be called 'the other side of the tracks' (which is where I grew up)--with grandparents and a mom who cared.

I agree that the obvious answer is that the poster is poorly educated, or very drunk, or both. But that doesn't excuse racist claptrap. Being 'stupid' because of early conditions in one's life I can understand. Staying stupid is another animal completely. Being both stupid and hate-filled is, imo, a personal choice the fellow made. I expect he had guidance from his Nazi friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 08:46 PM

"think of all the white war veterans who fort the war to save this contry from being invaded, and then the guv does it volentary."

I know this won't be a popular post.

But what upsets me most strongly about this post, is that the poster is so badly educated.
How can any Democracy function effectively when members have no education?

How can any BNP supporter really be criticised if THIS is the degree of education of the membership. No Irony here please (I grew up in a council estate myself, albeit with a Mother who cared). I am in earnest.