BS: Legal action over BNP membership

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 06:38 AM

""It would help communication if the BNP posters had some idea what they were talking about.""

HEAVEN FORFEND!

If they were able to muster enough brain cells to know what they're talking about, they WOULD be dangerous.

No Lox, no village green. They do have a vacancy for a village idiot, but the BNP, collectively, are underqualified for the post.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 04:31 AM

"in the somewhat quaint village of 'Throwawaythekeyandletemrot'"

I guess they don't have a village green there - much less play cricket on it ... ;-)


... I'll get my coat xx

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 09:23 PM

BTW, Leah. I really dislike the passive voice (It is thought). Please steal better stuff in future! And stop trying to pass the words of others off as your own. Not only a racist piece of trash but also a crook. Just about what one expects from bnp garbage.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 09:13 PM

"Leah's" post is a cut and paste job. Keriste, one would think the English are complete idiots were 'she' (is that YOU, Morton?) the only Brit posting here.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 08:10 AM

It was announced today the Home Office has accepted all 16 recommendations made by the Migration Advisory Committee (MAC) on how to tighten up the rules controlling when skilled workers are allowed to take jobs in the UK.

Currently British firms have to advertise vacancies at UK Jobcentres two weeks before they are able to look abroad.
Under changes being announced by Home Secretary Alan Johnson this is to be extended to a month before recruiting from overseas.
This means, the Home Office said, that British workers will have more time to apply and be interviewed


The measures recommended by the Migration Advisory Committee are designed to tilt the odds in favour of British jobseekers AND those from EU countries with a right to work in the UK.

The qualification period for skilled foreign workers employed by multinational companies to become eligible to work in the UK will also be doubled to a year.
Also, the minimum salary that will allow someone to qualify as a skilled worker and be eligible to work in the UK will rise from £17,000 to £20,000.


The striking workers in Lindsey did have legitimate grievances against Total SA and the construction firm IREM — against their exclusion from employment on the refinery construction project, and against the inevitable undercutting of wages and conditions which results from the employment of non-unionised workforces

As TUC General Secretary Brendan Barber said

'Unions are clear that the anger should be directed at employers, not the Italian workers.
No doubt some of the more distasteful elements in our towns and cities will try to use the fears of workers to stir up hatred and xenophobia'


For an analysis of the action at Total's Lindsey oil refinery Seumas Milne's article from January this year also comments how
'the BNP and its friends will try to exploit these rolling stoppages'

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 08:02 AM

"It would help communication if the BNP posters had some idea what they were talking about. "


Heehee, that raised a smile, Richard...

Hey, I've 'met' *leah* as well, over on Facebook...blew her up last night..metaphorically speaking of course..

What kind of person has a load of different pages, all run by the same person, who then holds conversations with themselves? Weird, huh? Billy Nomates, I guess, because Leah's page is filled with her mates who she's erm...invented, some of whom are you, or me, or others from Mudcat...It gets more and more laughable.

Legal action over BNP membership.

Brilliant idea.

You want to be a member of the BNP, you get sent to prison, indefinitely, in the somewhat quaint village of 'Throwawaythekeyandletemrot'

Next, m'Lud!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 07:46 AM

Minor fine tuning.

The head contractor was Jacobs.

IREM were subcontracted for the whole of the work.

The Italian and Portuguese workers were part of IREM permanent employees.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 07:34 AM

Leah, here, of course, may or may not be the Leah Green from fakebook.

In any event, it would help to get the facts of the Lindsey refinery strikes correct.

Total is a French company. It owns the Lindsey refinery. France is in the EU.

The bit I am having a slight trouble tracing right now is that Total wanted a large construction project carried out at Lindsey and I am sure that they engaged a US corporation and the US corporation then engaged a subcontractor, IREM, for part of the work.

The Italian (Italy is part of the EU)company IREM engaged (in Italy) workers - mainly Portuguese (Portugal is also a member of the EU) and Italian - and some non-EU.

They were engaged in Italy and under Italian law and on Italian terms. But under the EU "Posted Workers Directive" IREM could post those cheaper workers to do the work at Lindsey.

So, for the most part, the workers actually doing the work at Lindsey could not have been excluded under EU law and will not be excluded under the proposed reforms. The problem at Lindsey was and is the Posted Workers Directive, there are no plans to change it and it cannot be unilateraly changed by the UK - only under and in accordance with EU law.

It would help communication if the BNP posters had some idea what they were talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 07:22 AM

re giving the BNP a BBC platform

extract from Sunny Hundal in today's press

"A question for the BBC"

'There is a deeper question here for the BBC. Is it merely an independent platform that should offer space to any sufficiently popular viewpoint or should it exercise more editorial judgement?

For example, there is a significant movement of people online who believe they aren't being told "the truth" about who was behind 9/11 and 7/7.

There are a huge amount of "birthers" in America who believe Obama was not born in the USA despite the overwhelming evidence. There are the climate-change denialists, the creationists and even the Holocaust deniers. A straightforward reporting position would require that the BBC give roughly equal time to two opposing points of view in the name of impartiality, even if the evidence overwhelmingly contradicts one side.

A similar problem applies to the BBC's formats. Question Time is basically a populist shouting match where facts and figures don't have time to get checked. Someone such as Dan Hannan MEP can claim 84% of our laws are made in Europe and no one calls him out on his rubbish. Nick Griffin could similarly claim he's not racist and repeat lies that go unchallenged live on air. BNP pamphlets have repeatedly featured lies in the past. Who will have the research on hand to challenge that? His fellow QT panellists won't. And so the BBC will be used to spread lies by a party in thrall to antisemitism, racism, sexism and general conspiracy theory looniness.

All this will only demean the BBC's reputation.

Many of the BNP's supporters say they're only trying to protect Britain from those who intend to destroy it. But the BBC is giving space to an organisation that itself is anti-democratic, authoritarian and averse to our liberal democratic traditions. It seeks to destroy the very basis of the nation it claims it's trying to protect. Why shouldn't it be treated with less support and respect than the other political parties?'

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 04:11 AM

Just ignore "Leah". This is the same pillock who was accusing Cliff Hall of sponging off the Welfare State, and the same gob...te who was recently calling himself Sam.

Whatever. RE., Nick Griffin and Question Time. I heard an interesting announcement on Radio 4's Today programme's review of the morning papers. According to the Independent, Labour is going to drop its traditional stance of refusing to share platforms with fascists, and put up one of its heavyweights instead. No indication, seemingly, that they've yet got anyone in particular in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 03:30 AM

"employing contractors from abroad, once their workers arrive in the UK, it's straight onto benefits."

What on earth do you mean? Your post makes absolutely no sense! British workers were striking over contracted overseas workers, not actually working at-all, but instead going straight onto benefits?

FFS, if you want people to take your claims about the issue of immigration at all seriously, at least try to make some bleeding sense man!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Leah
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 03:24 AM

Many people from outside Europe will find it harder to get jobs in the UK when the Government announces a series of measures to favour "home-grown" workers.

The measures, to be introduced by Home Secretary Alan Johnson later today, are among 16 proposals put forward by the Migration Advisory Committee to deal with these scroungers.

They follow Gordon Brown's pledge of "British jobs for British workers", made during a wave of strikes earlier this year over employing contractors from abroad, once their workers arrive in the UK, it's straight onto benefits.

It is thought the changes would have excluded up to three in ten of the foreign workers granted permits last year.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Keith Myers
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 02:10 AM

Good one Fred - Keep up the good work.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 08:00 PM

Apply here to participate in the program.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 07:40 PM

Isn't question time rebroadcast on saturday as a radio show on radio 4 as well?

I clearly stand to be corrected.

I generally watch it on TV

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 02:31 PM

Sorry, I was thinking of 'Any answers' of course, and not 'Any Questions'. I stand guilty.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:47 PM

Just give him enough rope and watch him hang himself.
Ask him about his health, education, and general economic policies.

Ask him how he plans to persuade the people he doesn't like to leave the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:41 PM

Owen,

"Question Time" is a TV programme, but this is a very middle class sort of forum and many may be thinking of "Any Questions" which is the Radio 4 show of the same format (I tend to think of them both as "Question Time". The discussion applies equally to both shows, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:39 PM

Griffin will doubtless have a few planted members, but you can bet your bottom dollar they will be primed, handpicked and guaranteed not to disrupt. The most effective approach will be to let the other panel members and non-fascist contributors from the floor tie him up in knots.

So I hope that our side doesn't turn it into a circus either, because that will be exactly what Griffin wants. Just give him enough rope and watch him hang himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:33 PM

my questions for the panel (so far).

(1) Does the panel agree that all criminal convictions of candidates standing for public office should be stated on ballot papers?

(2) Does the panel believe that Holocaust denial should be an indictable offence as it is in other European countries?

(3) Does the panel believe that peaceful demonstration plays an important role in democracy, and does it applaud the conduct of those who took part in the recent anti-fascism protest at Codnor?

(4) Should elected representatives who have been nominated by a political party which has illegal membership crieria be removed from office?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:26 PM

Bring 'em on, I say. Give them all the rope they need to hang themselves. Force them into a civilised sensible debate where they have to defend their dodgy politics against calmly presented logic and intelligence.

Another approach would be to let them fill the place with their own supporters and turn it into a circus. Probably just as effective in terms of 'impressing' the electorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:18 PM

A couple of posters seem to think Question Time is a radio programme. It isn't. It is a tv programme which is broadcast on Thursday nights at 22-35 and appears to attract a very respectable audience.

there is absolutely no chance that we could get the entire non-BNP membership to boycott it. Also, it's not strictly speaking a debating programme. Rather the format consists of questions, usually topical, from members of the audience, which are answered by each panel member in turn, with contributions usually being invited from the floor.

Debates do occur between panel members though, and anyone with Griffin's mouth problem could be forced into a few awkward corners, if he comes out with some of the drivel he has spouted in the past. I'm thinking of his "sink immigrant ships" line, or the one where he wanted to drop British born 'immigrants' out of a plane over Africa.

Success in routing the fat b..ard will therefore depend on who the BBC get for the rest of the panel. Just one skilled anti-fascist debater should be all it takes.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:00 PM

Don't think it would work.

If you and I are invited to have a live debate and I drop out, you still get to use the time to express your views.

I think all it would achieve would be to give the BNP an unopposed platform.

Our democracy, which for all its flaws is right to protect Media impartiality, has given him a platform.

We learned in the last elections that democracy is only strong if we participate in it.

So lets participate.

If the show is anywhere near London, I will be trying to get a ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 12:46 PM

The proper response would be to do all that we can to let our representatives know that we expect them to boycott any such program.

We should also campaign to ensure that the only listeners are BNP supporters.

Nothing has greater effect on the Media than falling ratings, and it should be possible to drive those through the floor while isolating Nazi Nick in a near empty studio.

Who knows, if the BBC can't GET a cross section audience, and can't get any reps from other parties, they might have to cancel on the grounds that they CAN'T produce a properly balanced debate.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 12:14 PM

That GUEST above was me - suckered in I'm afraid.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 12:13 PM

It's Radio 4. Just wondered how many of the blobs can tune their radios past Radio Scum. Do they know the difference between AM and FM, or are they only interested in S&M ?

John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Royston
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 09:59 AM

If all goes well then Nazi Nick will never make it to Question Time. The true extent of what anti-BNP activists are going to do to this rag-tag bunch of fascists hasn't even dawned on them yet.

Get the membership criteria opened up.

Flood the party with new members so that it becomes a shining beacon of 21st Century multiculturalism.

Start on constitutional reform to a)make it an inclusive, multicultural party of socialist, europhile champions of all working people and b)get rid of Nazi Nick and his cronies. A candidate for leader only needs 5 years in the party and 100 signatures (we've had people on the inside for years).

Every time the party makes a racist statement, the offended members will take legal action.

Every time a "traditional" member makes a racist attack or comment, offended members take legal action.

The BNP could easily become exactly what the labour party is failing to be: a socialist champion of all working folk regardless of race, colour or creed...

...or it will just crumble and die. Oh well, shit happens. Plus ca change. The point is that undemocratic racists and fascists will never have the organised structures (political parties) that they need in order to subvert and destroy the democratic process.

The plans for the BNP are entirely democratic...what could be *more* democratic than joining a party and using your vote as a member of it to effect change?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 08:52 AM

The question time audience will be a deliberately representative cross section of the public.

The wider TV and Radio audience is hard to predict but his infamy might result in people watching who wouldn't normally do so.

Besides which, your comment doesn't really have any bearing on the quote in Italics - his approach will be the same and the same tactics need to be used no matter who is or isn't listening.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 08:03 AM

he will be aiming to push the buttons of poor, vulnerable disenfranchised brits.

Problem might be, how much of that demographic actually listens to Question Time.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 07:10 AM

For all those who said things like:

"why are these threads still going?"

"Apart from giving a few liberals the chance to spout their ego's what is this thread achieving?"

and

"The BNP are washed up and if we ignore them they'll go away"


Here is why we must practice and get good at taking them apart.

Fascists with a platform


Lets hope that the other guests they choose are the cream of Britains most patient debaters. Griffin will be prepared with a load of cheap
one liners, insults and Lies and only those who do not react to him but cut straight to the chase will beat him.

Anyone "righteous" will be made a mockery of.

The thing to remember is who Griffin will be speaking to - he won't be aiming his comments at angry middle class liberals, he will be aiming to push the buttons of poor, vulnerable disenfranchised brits.

This demographic generally sees middle class liberals and politicians as pompous and self serving so a judgemental approach could simply serve to give strength to Griffins button pushing technique.

Griffins debating opponents should therefore also be aiming to speak to the same demographic in an inclusive understanding way and at the same time they should make it clear and easy to understand that the BNP are Liars.

This issue is ongoing until they lose their seats.


Peace - in an earlier post you questioned me for talking about a "new political reality" - this is it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 06:23 AM

Is anyone going to apply to be in the audience?

It depends where the programme is transmitted from. We won't know that until we have a transmission date.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 06:17 AM

BNP's intelligent debate..... Isn't that a contradiction?

I hope that if Griffarse does get invited to Question time that the audience are not flooded with his cronies who have been given months to carefully rehearse the same old pathetic crap BNP supporter keep spouting, and that the majority will be intelligent decent people who will tear him to pieces (compared with the BNP collective mental capacity that would be 99.999% of the rest of the population) . Is anyone going to apply to be in the audience?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 05:44 AM

"allegedly "racist" political parties"

What planet are you living on? There is no "allgedly" about it.

"All this talk about left-wing ideologies of socialism, fascism, protectionism, populism, and welfare statism is crap."

Ah, there's a well-rounded and well-expressed political theory typical of the BNP's intelligent debate.

Well, to express a reply in the languange you may understand: "bollocks!"

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Penny S.
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 04:19 AM

I heard that too. As in they have to, as they cannot treat any legal party differently. Other parties have hitherto stated that they would refuse to appear on the same platform, but the BBC says that no participant has the right to dictate the line-up.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 04:09 AM

There was an announcement on Radio 4 news this morning that BBC tv's Question Time is planning to invite Nick Griffin onto one of its programmes. No date has yet been set. Normally I support the line 'don't talk to fascists. However, having seen griffin tied up in knots by interviewers in the past, this is one I'll be really looking forward to.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 03:27 AM

Please remember that Mudcat people are particularly suspicious of people who post with multiple identities. If you're posting anonymously or under multiple identities, most likely your posts will be deleted, especially from BNP threads. This has nothing to do with the content of your messages - if you fool around with your identity, you can expect to be deleted.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 06:56 PM

Crow Sister - Holocaust denial has been around since the end of WW2. I think it was started by the Nazis, but mostly perpetuated by the church, who were desperately trying to clean up their image, having 'backed the wrong horse'. All sorts of nutters have cottoned on to the idea since, but I'm not sure most of them actually believe it. The likes of the BNP just do it for effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: The Barden of England
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:30 PM

Helen tried to get me to accept her/him/it/amoeba as a friend on facebook. Take a 'F**k off tablet' was what I thought as I denied said request. Obviously thinks we're as stupid as her/him/it/amoeba/blob.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:30 PM

Well at least it will shut her up for a while..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:15 PM

S/he's getting ready for a night out with the boyz.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:11 PM

Off entertaining 'the lads', I shouldn't wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:07 PM

It's not all that intellectual. Join the party, vote out the racists and Bob's yer uncle. However, between now and then, why be 'nice' with trash like Sam/Helen?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:05 PM

There are hundreds of thousands of Asian and Black British citizens who would have no problem organizing to join the BNP together in large numbers.

They would of course bring whatever gifts and good cheer that they deemed appropriate to share with those jolly lads who hope to give them such a warm welcome.

My dear helen, do I detect a little defensiveness in your last post?

Your writing style has developed a tense anxious quality.

Could it be you are a little irked at realizing what a fool you are making of yourself?


Grrrr .....

Back to plan 'A' then - bashing heads - we knew all this intulleckshul stuff wuz a waste of time ...

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:05 PM

I won't attempt to initiate a fresh thread on this subject. Hopefully enough interested parties will already be watching....?

How did it come about, that someone created the idea of a 'hoax' around the hollocaust? For myself, it was the internet a couple of years ago, which exposed me to the notion of 'hollohoax'.

It strikes me as a monstrous and willful manipulation of information to bias the 2nd WW so badly that now we have a political party in the UK (the BNP), whose ideology is rooted in this notion of a faux mass European History, where the victors over the Nazi's deliberately 'built' chimneys, to pretend that the Jewish race had been targeted!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:58 PM

Do it when you're sober. You'll feel it more.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:57 PM

I think the poor misguided soul is off to the bar. Have a nice evening, Sam/Helen. Please don't fall down drunk and smash your face.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:47 PM

I hope she's sober once in a while.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:43 PM

That's exactly what she meant Don - it was a laughable attempt at subtlety. She's the BNP's public relations department.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:39 PM

HelenB isn't even a female. Lets ya know more about BNP supporters than ya ever cared to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 04:37 PM

""The lads will give them all a welcome they will never forget.""

YES!

With baseball bats and steel toecap boots, if the past is anything to go by.

But, of course the official line will be "They are nothing to do with us, but we don't condemn their patriotic actions".

Don T.