BS: Legal action over BNP membership

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 04:43 PM

The previous post was to the illiterate guest.

To everyone else.

I am surprised that the EDL organisers have not been convicted of incitement. Harrow demonstrated the effects of incitement. What they were doing is no different from extremists from another religion descending on a parish church during midnight mass at Chroistmas or Good Friday.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 04:36 PM

?????
Can you say that again in English? Don't bother.. unless you
are prepared to answer one teeny weeny simple question......


Is David Copeland a Muslim......

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 04:31 PM

"Manchester City Council calls on Home Secretary to ban English Defence League rally"

From 24dash.com today

"A city centre rally by right-wing protesters next month should be banned by the Home Secretary, council chiefs said today.

Manchester City Council, faith groups and traders have joined to make the request

The city council says it is powerless to stop the planned rally in Manchester on Saturday October 10 and wants Alan Johnson to intervene and halt the event.

Councillor Jim Battle, deputy leader of Manchester City Council, said: "Wherever the so-called English Defence League have gone, there has been violence and disruption to ordinary people who just want to go about their business.

"These people do not have a legitimate cause - they merely wish to vilify, insult, intimidate and provoke one section of our community.
That isn't protest or legitimate democratic debate and it certainly is

The Dean of Manchester, the Very Rev Rogers Govender, said: "Manchester Cathedral is currently hosting an exhibition commemorating Anne Frank, who as a Jewish victim of the Holocaust experienced prejudice and racial hatred.

"The exhibition tackles contemporary issues such as bullying, racism and intolerance head-on and we are proud to demonstrate our support for the values of tolerance and inclusion of which Manchester is rightly proud.

"The English Defence League's plans to march in Manchester are a direct threat to those values and we stand in solidarity with those who reject their agenda of division."

Kate Harrison, chief executive of Cityco, which represents city traders,
said: "Saturday afternoon is a particularly busy time and our priority is to manage the city centre so families can come and enjoy themselves without disturbance.

The Home Office said neither the police nor the Home Secretary had the power to ban static demonstrations or assemblies, unless trespassing was involved.

A Home Office spokesperson said: "The police are responsible for making the decisions on how to facilitate peaceful protest. They must take into consideration responsibilities such as public safety, public order, the prevention of crime and the protection of the rights of others to go about their lawful business.

"Violent activity and incitement to religious and racial hatred are totally unacceptable and the police have powers to deal robustly with any such activities that take place at a demonstration, which is why the Government is committed to supporting the operational decisions of the chief police officers on the best steps necessary to maintain public safety and prevent serious public disorder."

- sorry about the cut and paste but it wasn't possible to post a link

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 04:19 PM

thanks owen, i have just signed it and posted it onto facebook.

although i have no wish to silence anyone. i am all for freedom of speech, what i really want is saftey in the streets.

i have to admit to being a coward, as i live very close to manchester, but i am scared to go, i am a carer and have like most people have responsibilities(?) at home. i do not want to go and get hurt and not be able to do what i have to do.

as much as i would love to go and show my contempt.
i am ashamed of my fear. why should i be scared to go and show that i am against such groups?... because violence is the only language these thugs know or understand and respect.

saying aloud what you believe in and kicking the shit out of someone to prove it are two very different things. it is the latter i have the problem with. as i am sure you all do.

so to everyone who is more brave than i am, and goes to manchester. good luck and i wish you all saftey and success.

please forgive my cowardice?

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 03:57 PM

They can and will the streets of Britain, they are British. Every other kind of third world aids victim, muslim bomber, anti British army raghead and do gooder seem to think they can get away with it. Chance is on it's way.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 03:56 PM

There is a bizarre twist to the tale of the EDL which is that though it is true that they have been spotted doing the Nazi salute and they are made up from the ranks of city football firms, I believe that I read recently that their ranks are not exclusively white, but that members with brown and black skin have been photographed.

This correlates with experiences that I've had where I have overheard Asian lads and white lads bad mouthing N*****s and also White Girls and Black lads together bad mouthing P***s.

There are some weird anomalies to this whole issue that leave me utterly confused.

In this case it seems clear however that it is a case of Footie firms finding a pseudo-political excuse to bash somebody/anybody and that while there is a link to the BNP they are not one and the same entity.

Tough I have no doubt that the BNP are relishing it for 2 reasons.

1. it gets racist agenda's onto the news.

2. It allows then to take the role of moral reasonable arbiters and interpreters of public discontent etc.

Interesting development, though I suspect in the long run not especially challenging if people keep their heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 03:02 PM

My thought is that groups like the EDL - being as they are composed of exactly the angry skinhead style blokes that the BNP are so fervently trying to dump in their push for greater popular acceptance - represent far more of a problem to the far-right itself, than they do anyone else.

Even so, while I do not condone their intentionally inflammatory tactics, I can't condone trying to silencing their voice - they have a right to say what they will.

That's England to me - and as a believer in the rights of expression of the 'fringe voice' myself, I like to also be free to like or to lump its expression, as I will.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 02:17 PM

Whether the Home Secretary can ban the demonstration or not, it is obvious that the people want it banned. When I signed this morning, I think I was the 349th person to do so. I looked a minute or so ago, and that number had grown to 1948.

But don't let that deter you from signing.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 02:00 PM

Good eye, Owen.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 09:47 AM

Here's a quick update on my previous message about the English Defence League's proposed march in Manchester. I've since heard on the lunchtime news that this crowd of crabs and creeps is not planning a march after all. They're planning a static demonstration. While the Home Secretary can ban marches, he can't ban static demonstrations.

Even so, I strongly advise people to sign the petition anyway. We need to get the law changed, and fast.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 05:50 AM

Anti-fascist 'catters will probably have heard that the English Defence League is planning to turn yet another city centre into a no go area for law abiding respectability.

This time the venue is central Manchester, and the date planned is October 10th.

Hope Not Hate, which successfully campaigned to prevent the EDL marching against Luton Muslims, is now asking people to petition the Home Secretary to take similar action in Manchester.

You can lend your weight to the petition by visiting
Hope Not Hate .

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 07:52 PM

They seem to have a rather creative definition of the word 'debate' too. The only things wiping the floor around here are their knuckles.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 08:35 AM

Interestingly, over on fakebook, Sam Hudson has written on Helen Butcher's wall congratulating her on coming over here and wiping the floor with us in debate. Yeah right!


The latest two-syllable word they have learned is, it seems "cuckold" - but they don't seem to have mastered its meaning yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 06:05 PM

Anonymous guest

Nobody gave you permission to open your foul mouth... go aw.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 05:43 PM

Guest 14 Sep 09 - 05:33 PM I see that you are content to ape Nazi propaganda style too as well as embrace Hitler's doctrines.


"like most things about Muslims....Rats nothing more or nothing less."

'The Nazi film "The Eternal Jew," served to dehumanize the German Jews. The film "The Eternal Jew" itself compares the Jewish people to rats.
By dehumanizing Jews, the Nazi leaders began to prepare for Hitler's "Final Solution."
The Nazi leaders knew that when the deportations began it would be much easier for the German people to watch friends and neighbors shipped away if they associated them with rats or with age-old stereotypes about cheating with money.
The propaganda was able to play off the existing racial difficulties in Germany has well as to enhance the original nationalistic pride of the German people that they were somehow chosen or holy.'

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 05:39 PM

It was not a "Muslim Riot" it was something calling itself the English Defence League poking it's nose in where it wasn't wanted, they'd already done much the same thing in Birmingham.
These folk are those who tar and feather all followers of Islam with the same brush. It would be like saying all Christians are the same as the Christian far-right, in the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 05:10 PM

I was extremely disappointed the other day to be on the underground in London , when I looked over the shoulder of a man reading the Daily Telegraph.

He was reading an article about the English Defence League (an organization which appears to have been formed by rival football firms clubbing together to 'combat' radical islamist violence etc etc) and how they had decided to picket a mosque on friday after prayers, at the end of ramadan, on september the 11th.

Here's the story.

The headline in the Telegraph?

"Police attacked at Muslim Riot"

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 10:20 AM

Re my message of a few days ago about a silent vigil at the TUC Liverpool Conference. Far from being just the handful of anti-fascists I was expecting, what looked like the entire conference came out to join us. The media were there in force and hopefully the sea of placards and banners will make some impact in tomorrow's papers.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 05:01 PM

Ah - an English rose..

Rose, like the scum in dirty bathwater.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:34 PM

Thanks, Smokey.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:28 PM

So we are experiencing the BNP's subtlety at the moment then..?

It's not really working, is it?

Peace - 'Kollcluff', I should think, if it's English.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:20 PM

"Colclough"

How is that name pronounced?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 02:25 PM

"Perhaps one day, once by being rather more subtle we've got ourselves in a position where we control the British broadcasting media, then perhaps one day the British people might change their mind and say, "Yes, every last one must go." Perhaps they will one day, but if you offer that as your sole aim to start with, you're gonna get absolutely nowhere. So, instead of talking about racial purity, we talk about identity."

Part of Nick Griffin's address to the Ku Klux Klan in 2000. In other words, don't reveal your true intentions until you're able to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 09:03 AM

Jack Campin's link is the same as the Closed Thread that Tug the Cox started !

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 07:36 AM

Jason Pearson 11 September at 08:20 Reply
The English Defence League in Harrow Tonight.

Hi, I've been asked to give just a word about a protest by the EDL against a mosque in Harrow today. If you are not aware, they EDL claim to be a protest group against Islamification. This usually involves picking fights and against non Whites etc. The EDL appears to have been set up by BNP members (and domains registered by BNP members) and consists of the Football hooligans and 'casual's, the sort of fine open minded persons such as the Millwall 'fans' (apologies to real Millwall fans) who brought havoc and violence to the streets of Hull last year.

The National Union Journalist has also noted the threats the EDL have made against journalists, even though the point of protests is to gain as much publicity as possible.
(http://www.nuj.org.uk/innerPagenuj.html?docid=1334). The EDL openly state "….anyone taking photos or filming our members, unless we have invited them, SHOULD BE TREATED AS A HOSTILE.". The EDL call independent press 'Scum'.

Why are they so hostile to an independent and free press.
Jeremy Dear, NUJ General Secretary, said: "We also have a name for photographers who expose fascist thugs – we call them excellent journalists.Our members work hard to ensure people have access to independent reports and images of public events. Photographers should be free to take pictures without intimidation."


Anyway, if anyone can, please join the counter protest against the EDL at Harrow mosque today at 5pm. As always, keep it peaceful and calm.


Also, if you are not already members, you may also want to join these FB groups.

The United Peoples Party
http://www.facebook.com/groups.php?id=1232131029#/group.php?gid=35154413613
a new group and new political party.

The Facebook Anti-Nazi http://www.facebook.com/groups.php?id=1232131029#/group.php?gid=101157579371
A new group focusing on anti fascism

Petition to remove the BNP Facebook App. http://www.facebook.com/groups.php?id=1232131029#/group.php?gid=126299952487
The BNP have made an application for face book, where you can donate small amounts of money. I urge you all to join.


Thanks!




i just got this message on FB and thought it worthy of passing it on.

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:59 AM

The Scotsman has now picked this story up:

Sue Wilson article

Looks like Wilson hasn't done a lot more than read Mudcat threads to research that (or maybe look at the Facebook stuff, which I haven't seen), but a useful contribution anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 11:03 PM

Darn it, now the goat's been sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 10:28 PM

The face of racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 10:02 PM

Good night, "Helen B". May you choke on your own bile.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 10:00 PM

I've just concluded that Helen B is none other than the reincarnation of Lady Macbeth. I expect she may have had spawn, but I'd guess by her posts that she ate them as they hatched. God, what an ugly person 'she' is.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 09:46 PM

There are obvious ways in which a community of entertainers can raise money if necessary. However, it will ultimately be up to the Court to decide who actually pays the costs.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 09:34 PM

Hope to 12,000 big ones. Try a law firm that is willing to foot the bill until we get a settlement. They will keep a percentage and so will we. More importantly, the real-life names of the shite involved will be known to the general public--including the general public in YOUR country. You goin' down. And so's your so-called party.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 09:24 PM

YOU are a liar, Helen B. BUT, you WILL have your day in court.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 08:46 PM

I think they all get paid in this country - what does it matter? Would you do it? I, for one, don't mind admitting I'd be last in the queue for that job.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 08:35 PM

I did not say that. I simply remarked on the fact that he held a paid position. Before you attempt to make him a saint, all of us do jobs for a salary, his was no different. Better still why did he leave it. Now that was interesting !

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 08:31 PM

Criticising firefighters - paid or not?
Maybe we've at last found the answer to the question - 'How low can you get?'.

Pathetic. And desperate to get attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 08:22 PM

No point in wasting your time providing he/she/it with factual evidence, he/she/it will only deny it.   A bit like the way BNP deny the holocaust.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 08:17 PM

Thank you, Azizi. Very kind of you.

BTW, I don't think "Helen B" would actually mind an Afro-English (or Asian or Indian or . . .) person helping 'her' out of a fire or MVC. Fact is, the firefighter wouldn't consider whether or not she's racist. Makes one's stomach want to heave to think of good people putting it on the line for garbage like her.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:49 PM

Helen, I love you - will you have my children?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:43 PM

Are you jealous of her, Helen?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:41 PM

Thanks Bruce and thanks to your fellow volunteer firefighters & first responders for all you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:38 PM

I was curious about the firefighting system in Canada and decided to google that topic.

For the record, (and this is for Mudcatters and welcomed guests and NOT for this thread's unwelcome guests), here's some information about Canada's volunteer fire fighters:

"In rural Canada, neighbours help one another and look out for each other. In more than 3,500 communities across the country, neighbours may one day be called on to risk their lives for each other.

They are volunteer firefighters, the more than 120,000 men and women who answer the call day or night with fearless dedication.

Last month, Canada Post recognized the efforts of these selfless heroes with a commemorative stamp in their honour. The 48- cent stamp went on sale at post offices across Canada at the end of last month.

Those of us who live in large cities like Toronto might not realize that 85 per cent of the firefighters in Canada are volunteers and they protect 80 per cent of the communities in this country.

Volunteer firefighters are well-trained and their capabilities extend to handling fires in highrise buildings, shopping malls and industrial sites, as well as the family home, farm or local school.

In addition, they are often called upon to tend to the injured at accidents, search for missing children, provide emergency medical treatment or teach public safety.

While no longer found in most major Canadian cities, volunteer fire departments remain active in small towns and rural areas. Of the 4,000 fire departments across Canada, about 3,500 are manned by volunteers.

Volunteer firefighters are the first line defenders against many community dangers, according to Mike Walsh, president of the Canadian Volunteer Fire Services Association. "They answer the call every day," he said, "literally putting their lives on the line for the people of their community."

At the Ottawa ceremony unveiling the stamp, Steven Mahoney, secretary of state whose portfolio includes Canada Post, offered his praise. "Volunteer firefighters are trusted members of many Canadian communities. Service to a volunteer unit often means countless hours away from family as they perform their duties. The commitment shown by these men and women to the protection of their neighbours, their community, and their country, is unparalleled."

The new Canada Post stamp pictures three images that reflect the urgency of the situation volunteer firefighters encounter when responding to a call, with a central image of a firefighter carrying a child to safety."...

http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=50239


-snip-

And, in case some may think that a seven year old article doesn't reflect the situation today, see these two excerpts from:

N.L. firefighter describes terror of losing own home to flames
Posted by HalifaxHooligan on Sep 10, 2009 @ 10:38AM

Snippet:
CENTREVILLE, NL - A volunteer firefighter who watched as fire destroyed his own home this week says what he and his wife went through was a nightmare...[ read more ]

Source: CBC.ca (click for full story) Post a Comment

Firefighters rescued from restaurant blaze
Posted by HalifaxHooligan on Sep 10, 2009 @ 10:37AM

Snippet:
SARNIA, ON - People in this town of 4,000 on the southern shore of Georgian Bay were relieved two volunteer firefighters survived a stubborn pre-dawn fire that gutted a prized restaurant...[ read more ]

http://www.firehall.com/

[italics added by me for highlighting]

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:19 PM

Helen is delusional. Alcohol does that to 'her'.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:17 PM

Helen B. says, "people known to me are being tormented on social sites by "huggies". One gentleman in Idaho is closing his page due to comments from the like of you."

One simple phrase girlie...Stop telling lies, I personally hate liars.
Now, you're dismissed, be on your way.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:17 PM

Put the bottle down, Helen. You just get worse when you're plastered--which seems to be most of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:16 PM

"Fire Department positions in Canada are paid employment"

Apart from the volunteers ...



Huggies ...?


isn't that a brand of Nappies/Diapers?



You should ask someone literate to help you write a novel ...

.. it would be surreal but very entertaining!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Helen B.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:10 PM

Fire Department positions in Canada are paid employment, not exactly community volunteer services.

"BNP people have stolen the identities of about 10-12 people from Mudcat and abused/misused their names on Facebook. Forget the thread title. We're on a lawsuit against the BNP"

Please correct that Bruce, people known to me are being tormented on social sites by "huggies". One gentleman in Idaho is closing his page due to comments from the like of you.

Good luck with your lawsuit, I could be wrong, but you will probably require at least 12,000 big ones to get the ball rolling.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Peace
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 06:07 PM

Ladies and gents: Helen B ain't worth the sweat from your armpits. PLEASE don't argue with each other. Helen B is the supreme asshole on this thread. Don't fight 'it' for the title.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Cleverthreads (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:53 PM

From: GUEST,Did Someone Fart? - PM
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:39 PM

"Spoke to a guy recently who knew you from your Fire Service days. Do you ever reflect on them ? must say it was a very long time ago."

Must feel good to know one has given real time in ones life to serve the community?

Do tell us of all the selfless community work you?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, twit.
Then again some people can do, and some people sit round and can't do, or won't do.
I mean how many times and name changes are there going to be with this troll. I'm not a violent person, Troll, but in your case I could make an exception.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:51 PM

As I said 100 years ago, it gives one chance to mock the afflicted without actually transgressing the rules of political correctness.