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Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies

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Mr Happy 05 Jun 10 - 07:22 AM
GUEST,Jack Campin 05 Jun 10 - 09:02 AM
Little Robyn 05 Jun 10 - 06:55 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jun 10 - 07:14 PM
Dave MacKenzie 06 Jun 10 - 03:29 AM
Mr Happy 06 Jun 10 - 04:18 AM
Acorn4 06 Jun 10 - 04:56 AM
terrier 06 Jun 10 - 03:58 PM
The Vulgar Boatman 06 Jun 10 - 05:40 PM
Mr Happy 07 Jun 10 - 05:55 AM
Stringsinger 07 Jun 10 - 09:48 AM
Tootler 07 Jun 10 - 04:49 PM
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Subject: Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Jun 10 - 07:22 AM

Seems lots song writers [poets] maybe unable to compose original tunes for their compositions, or 3rd parties put poems & existing tunes together to create songs.

Some examples which spring to mind are:

On Raglan Road, orig a poem from Patrick Kavanagh which was given the melody of Fáinne Geal an Lae, a much older Irish air by Luke Kelly.

My Grandfather's Ferret to Henry Work's 'Grandfather's Clock'


Maries Wedding seems derived from Mo Ghile Mear {sp?}another trad Irish air tune.

Some've Percy French's output, such as 'Pride of Petravore' [Rights of Man]


Others?


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Subject: RE: Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 05 Jun 10 - 09:02 AM

That category covers maybe 90% of all traditional songs.

Care to be a bit more specific?


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Subject: RE: Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies
From: Little Robyn
Date: 05 Jun 10 - 06:55 PM

Villikins and his Dinah - folk tune #1!
Lots of songs to it.
Woodie Guthrie was never one to waste a good tune - Cleano and The Ladie's Auxillary for example.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 10 - 07:14 PM

I doubt if there are any good tunes that haven't been used already, many times, and reinvented as often as copied. Why should there be?

Complaining about it is a bit like saying how dull it is that the English alphabet has only 26 letters.


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Subject: RE: Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 06 Jun 10 - 03:29 AM

"Some've Percy French's output, such as 'Pride of Petravore' [Rights of Man]"

Two different tunes. We used to do them as a set with 'Pride of Petravore' transposed from Db to Eb.


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Subject: RE: Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Jun 10 - 04:18 AM

McG of H,

Where do I say I'm complaining about it?


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Subject: RE: Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies
From: Acorn4
Date: 06 Jun 10 - 04:56 AM

Weary Old Folk Tune

I am a weary old folk tune, it's ofttimes you've heard me
played,
Like when orders came one afternoon that we were to march
away,
From Bantry Bay down to Derry Quay from Galway to Dublin
Town,
To the Lowlands of Holland I've well and truly done the rounds.

Like when I told of three gallant poachers one March evening a
plan they made,
With trap and snare and with finger in their ear, by the
gamekeepers were waylaid,
For the singing of folk songs out of season straightway they
were condemned
To fourteen years transportay-she-aye-on unto Van Diemen's
Land.

Well as the ship it sped, we shook-ed our eds , and gay-zed
with a feeling rare,
Upon a ship that go-ed in the other direction saying "who are
that rabble over there?"
I said, says I "That's the Lancashire Lads, saying whatever shall
we do?"
Then before you could say "To me wack fol diddle eye day"
they'd nicked the bloody tune.

By now I totally confus-ed was to whom I did belong,
This melody to let, no lyrics yet, who'd be an old folk song,
An identity crisis for seven long years and only after intensive
counselling they set me free.
Only to be 'ad by Martin Carthy, three times on one CD.

Well I've been 'ad by half the regiment, given pleasure all
around the fleet.
Abus-ed by all and sundry-aye-ay from me nut brown hair to
me snow white feet.
I've been ad by the aristocracy, and by the rank and file.
It's time I was laid in the unquiet grave, like Lazarus to rise
again.


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Subject: RE: Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies
From: terrier
Date: 06 Jun 10 - 03:58 PM

That seems to fit nicely to 'Celebrated Working Man'(sort of).
Reminds me some years ago playing for a dance, the caller gave us a piece of music and asked us to play it for the next dance. It looked simple enough until we started to play then things started to go wrong. The 'tune' was the first bar of 16 different well known dance tunes !!


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Subject: RE: Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 06 Jun 10 - 05:40 PM

Just try working out how many songs the Lazarus tune has been used for. Tried it once with an old and knowledgeable friend; the score when we gave up was 39 and a bottle of Bushmills...


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Subject: RE: Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Jun 10 - 05:55 AM

'and a bottle of Bushmills'

Don't know that one.

Is it sung to the tune of 'Whisk[e]y in the Jar'? 8-)


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Subject: RE: Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Jun 10 - 09:48 AM

Borrowed tunes are the process of folk music. Each folk tune can be traced back to an antecedent. That's why they are folk tunes.

"All The Things You Are" by Jerome Kern is not a folk tune. Try tracing that one back.

Also, "Autumn In New York". That's another one. Or Billy Strayhorn's "Lush Life".

Bob Dylan's "Masters of War" can be traced to Jean Ritchie's version of "Nottamun Town".
I don't think Paul Simon wrote the main tune to "Scarborough Fair".

One of the reasons it's a folk song is that it's familiar.


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Subject: RE: Borrowed Tunes: Not Parodies
From: Tootler
Date: 07 Jun 10 - 04:49 PM

Nothing new.

It was normal practice among Broadside Ballad writers to specify an existing [well known] tune for their songs.

In the 16th & 17th centuries, there were tunes that were particularly associated with songs on particular themes.


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