Parodies...

Subject: Parodies...
From: buddhuu
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 06:16 AM

I'm afraid I just don't get it.

Can someone explain the appeal of comic versions of existing songs. Many seem to be badly written by people who aren't remotely as funny as they think they are. YMMV.

Have I just missed all the good ones? Or am I simply missing the point?

Anyone care to link to evidence that it's not all a fatuous waste of time, and an insult to good songs?

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 06:36 AM

MMDV

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: buddhuu
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 06:44 AM

Which D? "Does" or "doesn't"?

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 06:53 AM

Can someone explain the appeal of comic versions of existing songs

They make lots of people smile. I think that's enough.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 07:17 AM

Doesn't. Parodies don't tend to work for me either.. Not sure why as I do like funny songs, be they daft, witty, dumb etc: Pretty much anything by song-writers like Morrisey, Momus (The Homosexual), Hoagy (Huggin' and a Chalkin') and Jake Thakray I can find funny - can't think of many other witty lyricists off the top of my head though.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: jacqui.c
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 09:41 AM

It's all a matter of taste.

Off the top of my head I can think of 7 that I have done and which have made an audience laugh.

Custard Creams - Les Barker

Mamma Fried - Peter and Kris Cady

Two Below - Peter and Kris Cady

The Dawning of the Day - Dead Horse

Gaudy Tree - Dead Horse?

Lord Franklin - Les Barker

All Around My Fat - Penny Ward

There are more, and I'll quite often get asked for the words, so there must be an audience out there.

There are a lot of bad parodies - they generally sink without a trace, but the clever ones just keep going. I think that you have to like the original song to enjoy the parodies. I'm always on the lookout for more good stuff, as seasoning among the more serious songs I sing.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Leadfingers
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 10:33 AM

Its a sad Fact that every time someone turns up with a good song , some clever bugger will write a parody of it I am pleased to say !
Sadly , MOST parodies are neither clever nor really funny , but the GOOD ones are well worth finding !
I got into parodies VERY early in my Folk Career when I discovered a Re Write of Bob Dylan's Times They are a Changing - The Songs They are a Changing , having a VERY witty dig at the whole Folk Scene .
And that was in 1964 !
And what about The Kipper Family , and now the Solo Sid Kipper ? As well as Les Barker (Already mentioned)

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 02:41 PM

They make me cringe, I'm afraid. I'm a boring old fart who finds enough magic in the originals without some half-arsed, half-witted parody being necessary.
And don't get me started on finger popping rings or free toast...
That said, when they crop up in a session it gives me a good chance to go and empty the bladder and fill the pot.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: CupOfTea
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 03:35 PM

A good "reason" for parodies is the cathartic experience of doing in a song you've been requested way too many times: verbal revenge!
Quickly coming to mind:
The Boxer becomes The Folkie "I'm a lead fingered folkie..."
Waltzing with Bears becomes Golfing with Hares
The Garden Song begets The Anti-Gardening Song "Slug by Slug, Weed by weed"
Barrett's Privateers becomes Mickey's Mouskateers

Admittedly, a badly written parody is a particular type of dreadful, but there's plenty who write witty parodies. Les Barker stands head and shoulders (when he's on a soapbox) above in that category. His My Husband's got no Porrige in Him parody of My Husband's got no Courage in Him is something I can sing to audience who have no knowledge of the original, & don't care that it's a parody - that does not detract from their enjoyment of the Barkeresque peculiar plotline.

In some cases, there's a thin-to-nonexistant line between parodies and just using the tune of another song for your own lyrics. There's a whole genre of music called"filk" songs that relies heavily on parody, bending the themes of Science fiction subjects (also popular with the Society for Creative Anachronism). A good deal of this is on the drek end of the spectrum, but... there are moments....
Simply re-using a popular tune for a new set of lyrics is a very common way of making up songs for specific occasions like anniversaries, retirements, political events or birthdays. I was serenaded to "Oh Joannie O Joannie..." to the tune of Clementine on the occasion of my 50th birthday. It was totally embarrassing, immensely gratifying and possible for everyone there to sing.

I think the mostly humorous nature of parodies is what I enjoy the most. Perhaps you've just not heard a parody that tickles your particular sense of the absurd?

Joanne in Cleveland

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: mousethief
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 03:55 PM

Why must people denigrate things that others enjoy?

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 04:56 PM

Good parodies, like good songs, are much rarer than most folks would like to admit. Bad parodies, like bad songs, are bad.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 06:42 PM

""can't think of many other witty lyricists off the top of my head though.""

Thanks CS.

I don't write many parodies, being more inclined toward originality, but good parodies are far more plentiful than one might think, which may be because they have few supporters here.

My friend, and musical partner, Clive Lever (Mudatter WildRover) has a particular flair for good parodies.

His take on "Piano Man" has become virtually a Sidmouth Festival Anthem, requested at the Bedford, Swan, and Volunteer, and he has parodied songs by Paul Simon, Bruce Springsteen, and Leonard Cohen, with great success.

Songs are songs. If nobody enjoys them, they vanish. If one doesn't like a particular kind, why gripe about others who do?

Just don't listen to them.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 06:54 PM

Blimey Don, no need to take it so personally!

I'm not taken to parodies, is that such a crime?

I've heard (just in passing) there are a teensy-weensy handful of people who hate unaccompanied ballads...

Eh! Who'd have credited that?

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 07:01 PM

Mind you, even if I didn't cite you in my list, you have indeed made me laff out loud on more than one occasion..

Will that do as a public grovel? ;-)

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Leadfingers
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 07:10 PM

The REAL Beauty of a GOOD parody is when it is of a song than CAN be dire ! Malcolm Austen's "Oh No NOT the Fields of Athenry" inspired by hearing it Dirged three times in one singaround at a festival has to be rated highly !

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Acorn4
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 07:16 PM

There are actually two kinds of parodies; one is when the mick is being extracted out of the song itself, the classic here being Billy Connolly's take on D.I.V.O.R.C.E. There is a really funny one on "Willy McBride" (by Crawford Howard?).

The other is just using the song as a vehicle for satirising something else. Les Barker generally uses this type - "Nolans and Elton John" (Lowlands Away).

Sometimes they make a bit of light relief from the 42 verse Child Ballads. They have been there as long as I can remember since the days of performers like Miles Wootton.

The Folk World is a very broad church, but there are still those who would like to impose excommunication on others who do things that they don't approve of.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: DADGBE
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 10:09 PM

Parodies can also have some interesting dynamics. Often, they get written about subjects which have begun to annoy the parodist. There are endless Christmas carol parodies sung by folks who get bombarded by the yearly onslaught of phony commercial cheer.

"This Land is Your Land' is a great song but here in the US, kids get it in every grade. But I heard one kid singing:

"This land is my land, It isn't your land,
If you don't get off, I'll blow your head off,
I've got a shotgun and you ain't got one,
This land is private property."

That sounds like a more accurate reflection of the real attitudes about property here than Woodie's lovely dream.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: GUEST,not a guest, john f weldon
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 10:30 PM

http://www.weldonalley.ca/songs/savedmix.mp3

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 10:35 PM

Will a day come when the race will detect the funniness of these juvenilities and laugh at them--and by laughing at them destroy them? For your race, in its poverty, has unquestionably one really effective weapon--laughter. Power, Money, Persuasion, Supplication, Persecution--these can lift at a colossal humbug,--push it a little-- crowd it a little--weaken it a little, century by century: but only Laughter can blow it to rags and atoms at a blast. Against the assault of Laughter nothing can stand.

                                  --Mark Twain

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 11:01 PM

It's not necessarily the song itself but the context in which its used and the gesture it makes. The song "itself", fairly obviously, is not expected to be so great.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: buddhuu
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 04:51 AM

Mousethief: "Why must people denigrate things that others enjoy?"

That wasn't the intention of the original post.

There are many things that I don't get. So far, these parodies are an example of that.

I don't like to miss out on stuff. If there is something worth having I want in on it. In the case of things where I may be missing something crucial I need pointers, hence the enquiry.

Many of the contributors to the thread have done a good job of summing up why parodies work for them. That's a helpful start. I've still yet to see many that seem, to me, to have been a worthwhile investment of the writer's time.

That said,

"This land is my land, It isn't your land,
If you don't get off, I'll blow your head off,
I've got a shotgun and you ain't got one,
This land is private property."

did make me chuckle. I think Woody would have laughed at that.

Thanks for comments so far.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 06:52 AM

For a couple awhile back, I wrote a lot of parodies. I don't know where it came from and when the reason disappeared, I stopped writing them and I haven't written any songs, comic or otherwise, or verse since then. It was great fun while it lasted, though. The reward is if a parody gets a chuckle; I don't think one can expect much more than that, beyond the pleasure of writing it.

They were hardly ever parodies of the songs themselves. In fact, I like nearly all of the songs that I used as the basis of the parodies. A big part of the pleasure of parodies is finding rhymes and fitting the verse to the different patterns used in different songs. It really makes one appreciate a well-constructed song (Gilbert O'Sullivan's "Alone Again", for example).

I sometimes like other people's parodies ((like Homer and Jethro's), but not usually in large doses.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 06:53 AM

Sorry, I meant "For a couple of years, awhile back [...]".

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 10:36 AM

Ranting Sleazos had a VERY good rewrite of 'Blood Red Roses' with the refrain 'Childbirth's no Bed of Roses , Bear Down'

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 01:35 PM

Parody is an excellent form of entertainment.

Provided you have a sense of humour that is.

if you don't?

There are some threads on Mudcat that don't include humour. I suggest you try posting there instead.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 02:27 PM

If someone doesnt like parodies they dont have to sing them , and as was pointed out above ,its an opportunity to get a beer , or to Jettison beer !

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 09:26 PM

Here's a question for you: Do parodies HAVE to be funny?

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 09:29 PM

If I write anti-Afghanistan-War lyrics to an existing tune, is it a parody?

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 09:58 PM

In MY book a Parody OUGHT to be Humourous take on a known song !
Using an established tune for turning a 'poem' into a song is NOT a Parody unless there is a distinct similarity in the theme and structure !
Garnetts Beer/Barratts Privateers is a good example of a parody as 'Garnetts' uses the structure and a variation on the chorus of the original

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 10:21 PM

Re-using a tune for a new song is a time-honored folk theft tradition. But if I take a song and re-write it to the tune and theme of the original but change it so that it has a different message, is it a parody if it isn't humorous?

For example (apologizes to the great Tom Paxton!):

Imam, I'm a volunteer and I've just arrived in camp
I've come to wear the suicide vest and join jihad tramp
And I want to do my duty but one thing I do implore
You must give me lessons, Imam, for I've never died before.

There are rumors in the camp about the enemy
They say that when you see him he looks just like you and me.
But you deny it Imam, and this is a holy war,
I hope you will be patient for I've never died before.

This is close enough to be Tom Paxton's original song -- it can't be mistaken for anything else -- and yet I've changed it in such ways that I, for one, don't find it funny.

Is it a parody? Or what?

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 10:46 PM

I thought it wry.

Subject: RE: Parodies...
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 03 Jul 10 - 01:57 AM

But if I take a song and re-write it to the tune and theme of the original but change it so that it has a different message, is it a parody if it isn't humorous?

If it is meant to be understood in relation to the original song, then yes, it is probably a parody, and no it does not have to be humorous.

But if you are just recycling a tune, then no....though there is the potential that some listeners, unable to dissociate the tune from the original song, think it a parody. Usually there will be other clues that make that clear.

Also consider the difference between a song that is meant to parody another, versus a song that is mean to lampoon something else (not related to a song) but which happens to use the familiar tune or form of a prior song as a vehicle.