BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 05:19 PM

And the beat goes on in New York and Chicago...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 06:06 PM

You bet, Bobert - the hits just keep coming on WNRA !

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 06:08 PM

"A 53-year-old man fired a year ago gunned down a former co-worker outside the Empire State Building in New York Friday morning before he was shot and killed by police, authorities say.

Another nine people were shot or grazed in the gunfire, some of them apparently by police officers, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said at a news conference in the middle of Fifth Ave. shortly before noon Friday.

All of the injured are expected to recover, he said."


Seems even training didn't help all that much.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 06:30 PM

Well here is the deal, I trust my own shooting cause the city cops sure as hell can't shoot. 11 people injured in the exchange .. cops are suppose to shoot straight and know what is behind the target instead of spray and pray.    Me I trust my own shooting and hopefully never have to.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 07:17 PM

Well, gee Dan! We'll just clone YOU ... about 25 million times, and put copies of you on patrol in all the cities. That'll fix it!

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 11:04 PM

No comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: redhorse
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 05:02 AM

"responsible gun owner" is like "good driver". Everyone believes he's one.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:23 AM

Right, redhorse...There is a good chance that some of the folks shot in New York were victims of "trained" friendly fire...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Sugarfoot
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 09:55 AM

This bloke in NYC would have caused the same deaths and injuries if he had been armed with a turnip. Because guns don't kill people.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 10:22 AM

Absolutely right! Guns DON'T kill people. BULLETS kill people.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 12:13 PM

I heard a commentator note that there was an incident where a guy armed with a hammer started hitting bystanders. 5-6 jumped on him and held him down and it was all over.

I think there's a vague point there........

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 02:18 PM

Thanks Bill
but if ya clone me, can I have a better back?
:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 03:20 PM

Majority rules. The majority are not whacked out. The majority are not scared of the whacked out. The majority are scared of people who think the majority are whacked out and want to impose laws on them that limit their ability to defend themselves.

Another zillion posts to all these threads will not change the fact that logical and reasonable laws regulating gun ownership should have been in place YEARS ago but it CANNOT get done because the anti-gun nuts are neither logical or reasonable in their demands or in their approach.

Yeah... broken record... that's me. BUT, so are you antis and you haven't got shit done for YEARS!

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 04:25 PM

As I heard it, Bill, it was only a hypothetical incident. The point is that a hammer isn't as dangerous as a gun. (Duh!)

Also, bullets don't kill people either, unless you load them in a gun held by a guy who's trying to kill people.

Bullets would be harmless if guys like that didn't have guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: redhorse
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 05:27 PM

The hammer story may be hypothetical, but here in UK in 1966 we had two "wacked-out" attacks on schoolchildren:

Dunblane (March)man armed with guns, teacher trying to protect children killed, 16 children killed
Wolverhampton (July)man armed with machete, teacher trying to protect children severely injured, three children injured, man fought off, no fatalities.

maybe guns don't kill people, but they make it a damn sight easier

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 06:36 PM

"maybe guns don't kill people, but they make it a damn sight easier"

sure does, never leave home without one anymore

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:11 PM

Ya ain't helpin things, Dan but I can understand yer frustration. Yer startin ta sound like me... >;)

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:22 PM

I'm with gn-ze here... More guns out there ain't the answer... Less guns is... It would be so easy to pull off a gun registration without impinging on any law abiding citizen to own guns... It seems that the NRA is perfectly happy with criminals and wackos owning as many guns as they like... The NRA is 100% about selling more and more guns...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:34 PM

Dan's point 'seems' to be.. "I can't help all the crazy people out there abusing the system, but I can help control the space immediately around myself."

If that is it, he has a certain kind of logic.... but obviously, all the places where we can't deploy Dan clones still make headlines.

MY point is that because we can't clone enough good guys...(and couldn't feed 'em if we cold clone 'em).. we really need some way to reduce guns AND/OR access to guns, 'cause we sure ain't gonna reduce crazy people.

Gnu still notes that "...you antis and you haven't got shit done for YEARS!".... and I agree... but us 'antis' have kept trying. When we depend on useful laws, and politicians who write laws are in hock to the NRA, it's kinda like asking colleges to ban football because kids get hurt- there's just too much money involved from alumni.

Maybe if some buys an AK-47 legally and shoots up the NRA offices?
naawwww... they'd just call that a good example of why they need guns.

Maybe if ........... *sigh* I dunno...

(4-5 shooting incidents around my area (DC metro) every week)

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:52 PM

Count yourself lucky, Bill... Here in Charlotte the morning news is filled with murder... Every day!!! It's usually 2 or three but every day someone gets murdered... Every day... No shit... Every single day...

Chicago??? Worse than here... 16 the other day... Man, this is insane...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:56 PM

Let's see, five American Presidents have been shot by nuts with guns, four of them fatally, and two of them within living memory. And there've been a few other attempts.

But [IRONY FOLLOWS] God forbid that we do any more to keep guns away from nuts. It would be *wrong* and a *threat to the freedom granted us by the Creator*! [END OF IRONY].

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 09:30 PM

You point Bill is well taken. I personally do not recommend anyone carrying a weapon unless they are committed to serious training and understand the use laws inside and out. While carrying you are acting as a cop without a badge and unless you have equal or even more training you shouldn't. You will endanger yourself and others. I carry not because I am afraid, I fear nothing never have. I fear Jell-o maybe LOL. I carry because no one is going to hurt some unarmed people or kids on my watch .. I won't allow it. It is like when I am on an airplane. I am not armed but the thousand years of martial arts training, the people around me are just safer and don't know it .

It is a very serious thing to carry a firearm in public, you really do need the training. If a person commits to that and can pass all the background checks .. sure thing you got my support, go ahead and carry

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 09:41 PM

Here's the real deal... Yeah, some folks are skilled... Even skilled folks screw up in crowded places... More than likely some of the shooting victims in New York were more than likely shot by the good guys...

I would be perfectly willing to not have the number of skilled guys out there if that is the price we have to pay to get guns out of the hnads of the wackos... I mean, if one olddude without a gun on the street = 100 wackos without guns than it's a no brainer...

We have to start somewhere or we will end up killing off everyone...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 10:11 PM

Ahhh but that is the rub as they say right ... how do you stop the wacko's if no one is gonna change any laws to make sense of it all. I wrote letters and emails and so have police and sheriff's depts to try and get the gun show loophole closed .. no elected official has the balls to even discuss it

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 11:00 PM

All of the wounded in New York were shot by police, according to the ballistics reports.
Wacked out police with guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Sawzaw
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 01:15 AM

Just about everybody I talk to says it is a shame nobody in there had a gun to shoot the bastard with.

There will always be a gun for a determined asshole to shoot somebody with even if they have to make it themselves.

Look at the bombers. You can't buy a bomb anywhere I know of. Bombs are illegal as far as I know. The bombers make them. Ask Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers. They are experienced.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 08:43 AM

Like I said, Ol'ster... We first need to change the conversation away from "Shut the heck up, liberals" to "Let's talk"... The longests journey begins with a single step... Getting the NRA to stand down for a friggin' minute and quit shouting at everyone is that step...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 02:52 PM

"Getting the NRA to stand down for a friggin' minute and quit shouting at everyone is that step..."

I fail to see the difficulty. Oh, I see that there would be difficulties if one listened to or read the NRA's pronouncements, but if one didn't and simply argued with facts and sense, then the NRA would cease to be a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 03:05 PM

Everyone knows the NRA's positions... They shout it from the mountain top... But the NRA can only guess what the other side is saying because they are too busy shouting to hear anything at all so they make up stuff that they think the other side would say even though they really are clueless...

So they argue with themselves so loud that nothing gets in...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 04:17 PM

So... I guess it takes a responsible gun owner who is also an advocate of gun ownership to start the process. I don't really wanna do this but after ten years of these threads that go nowhere, I'd rather TRY to do it than defend and chastise.

Bobert said... "Let's talk."

Okay, let's talk. But, frist, I have a couple of things to say.

Fuck the NRA and (sorry, but... hey?) fuck anyone who says they are idiots who cannot be forced to accept reasonable laws. The next post that says the NRA CANNOT be forced to accept reasonable gun control... I am gone in 60 seconds.

Fuck the antis who say all guns have to go. They are to be ignored and the reasons are obvious to anyone who has read the threads and also has an IQ in double digits.

I see NO reason why the Mudcatters herein cannot begin a dialogue which will lead to getting the job done... unless you are the bunch of pussies I accused you of being. Stand up and DO something about the problem or... yeah, I am gonna say it AGAIN... shut the fuck up.

Now, let's talk. But first, I have a request.

I would like everyone who has posted to this thread and who posts to this thread to read
EVERY FUCKING WORD OF EVERY PAGE FOUND ON THIS LINK.

You can cry foul all day long but if ya can't tell the NRA what yer gonna shove up their ass yer just cluckin and yer gonna get plucked.

So... any readers willin ta read about an excellent (I have some BIG problems with some of the legislation and I know it's gotta be tweaked to get by in the good ol USA but that will come in future discussions) piece of legislation? If so, we can continue talking and marshall the collective resources of Mudcatters to start a movement for responsible gun ownership in the USA. Seriously, Mudcat has everything needed to get the job done except, it SEEMS to me, someone to LEAD the process.

So, if any of you are serious about your concerns, read about legislation in other countries and provide POSITIVE suggestions about how to get the job done instead of weening like a bunch of pussies.

First things first (after you read the links above). The organization's name? "Responsible Gun Ownership USA"? "Mudcatters For Peace In The Streets"... yes, I know it sucks... whaddya got???

As for a website down the road for discussion and getting the word out, ANYone here know ANYthing about websites? Anyone here got any expertise in law, politics, guns, anything related? Anyone know anything about gun laws in their own state that can be added to the new site's data base with regard to how the laws on the books are viewed by the state residents?

Right... I'll stop throwing out comments, ideas, suggestions. Surely after we all have read up and reflected, a proper brainstorming session can be organized.

Second order of business should be selecting a chairman. I suggest someone with... nah, fuck that... I nominate JiK. I would nominate others, including myself, but I think JiK would be a shoe-in simply because he seems intelligent and reasonable. Knows fuckin near everything too but that goes without sayin.

In the end... is ANY antigun nut here in Mudcat willing to put their money where their mouth is and work toward responsible gun ownership in the USA? Or are youse a bunch of weening pussies who don't understand the NRA and their objections to ANY legislation EVEN if they agree with it? Are youse willing to DO something?

IF you are right, FIGHT. If you don't wanna fight, shut the fuck up.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 05:10 PM

if one didn't and simply argued with facts and sense

'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd.

However, Bruce, you've likely noticed that facts and sense don't signify with a substantial segment of the U.S. population of late.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 05:50 PM

"However, Bruce, you've likely noticed that facts and sense don't signify with a substantial segment of the U.S. population of late."

So, I guess, Greg, you will be on board with my proposed initiative to change that? I assume you are busily studying the Canuck gun laws I linked to above at this very moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 05:58 PM

Our realiteis are not that clear cut, gn-ze...

You see, our system of government is broken... That means that there is no way to get laws passed that are reasonable and make sense... 9 out of 10 Americans would like for whackos to not beable to get their hands on guns but...

...even so there is no way to get the will of the people into laws...

We are in a pickle with Citizens United, no real campaign finance laws, safe districts and one of the most propagandized populations in the industrial world...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 07:52 PM

Bobert:

I am truly sad to hear one of the people I respect the most in this here Café say "Fuck it. No way good people can win."

Glad to hear that I don't have to be bothered trying to help get something done down south TOO. I thought it wasn't that big a challenge but if it's impossible, well, yeah, fuck it. Not a big deal to ME on accounta I live in a country with good (for the most part) gun laws.

********************************************************************

There it is, folks. Done deal. Yankees roll over and let the NRA fuck them up the ass. You antis better pray Dan or I am on the ball when you need us. Of course, Dan is your go-to-guy on accounta he can carry heat 24/7. I can't "carry" because I live in a country with decent gun laws.

Oh... did anyone notice that took TWO posts? Two. 2. Count em... 2 posts and the NRA wins.

Pussies.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 07:08 AM

Bobert advises people to "buy guns, lots of ammo and learn to shoot straight 'cause these rednecks mean to kill people who ain't like them...
they are out there preachin' violence"

Is he a spokesperson for the NRA?

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 07:16 AM

Can you paste the whole post, Sawz?

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 07:54 AM

Yeah, Amos.... Amazing that all it took to bring back the right-winged "Patriot Movement" was the election of a black president...

This is what this is all about... Hey, these people never ever complained about governemnt spending while Bush was going on a spending spree unparalelled in history... But let a black man become president and it's time for the "revolution"... Might of fact, Obama has cut taxes for 95% of workers yet these same people are pissed off and most would tell you that Obama has raised their taxes... And Obama wants to take yer guns.... And Obama isn't a citizen... And, and, and...

...fucking bigots as far as I can see and now they want to kill people???

Yup, this country is way dumbed-down... Too many ignorant bigots can't get enough of the Big Lie... Reminds me of Germany in the late 30s... Lotta same stuff going down...

To all my progressive friends: like Rap has said, buy guns, lots of ammo and learn to shoot straight 'cause these rednecks mean to kill people who ain't like them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 10:57 AM

Sorry, Gnu, but I ain't a-gonna wade thru a thousand pages of legalese, however germaine or useful. Yep, I own firearms of all types, have been trained to use 'em & practice regularly.

As stated repeatedly by others, the first rational steps would be:

1. To close the Gun Show loophole

2. To strengthen and regularize State laws/regulations across the country (or enact a Fedural Statute to accomplish the same thing) so that some slug can't purchase a handgun in a state like Florida (there are others), where the only requirement is that the purchaser be breathing (and that can be waived upon application) bring it to New York, which has some of the most rational regulations in the country, and shoot someone there.

These changes have been proposed, lobbied & fought for over a period of decades by a number of EXISTING organizations in the U.S.- Here's One - no need for "Mudcatters Against Criminal Stupidity" - to no avail. It ain't the NRA - its the mindless fu*ks that the NRA is able to terrorize - same folks as the Birthers, Flat-Earthers, and the host of other mental deficients that infest the nation.

Some folks - and their numbers are increasing exponentially- are impervious to facts, Gnu, and I wish I knew (or Gnu?) how to address THAT problem.