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BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,SJL Date: 31 Jul 13 - 07:29 PM This latest incident of the black man who was shot by deputies in his mother's driveway certainly does sound familiar. Now the deputies say they told him "multiple times" to show his hands but he "spun around and lunged toward them." So, if everything goes according to script, here is what will happen next: The police report will prevail as the official report of the incident. They will find some way to discredit this black man, find something to destroy his credibility with in order to insure that the police report stands. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 13 - 07:22 PM Yeah, Greg... Zimmerman has no remorse for murdering Trayvon Martin... Quite the contrary... He probably would love to put a notch on 9 mm... He is a creepy person and I can't wait for his bad karma to kick his smug ass... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 05:25 PM Ooops - we cross-posted, Bobert. But I think the point deserves repeating. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 05:23 PM "asked the officer if he recognized him"???? Zimmerman apparently thinks he's some sort of freakin' Hollywood celebrity hero instead of a murdering racist piece of crap. Imagine my surprise. Tic-Tock, Zimmerman......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 13 - 05:21 PM It doesn't surprise me that Zimmerman asked if the officer recognized him... Zimmerman sees himself as some super-hero to Redneck Nation and, unfortunately, a lot of cops relate well with Redneck Nation... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: bobad Date: 31 Jul 13 - 05:11 PM George Zimmerman armed with gun during traffic stop in Texas By Eric W. Dolan Wednesday, July 31, 2013 16:25 EDT George Zimmerman was stopped in Forney, Texas over the weekend for speeding and told police he was armed, according to CBS 11 News. Zimmerman, who was recently acquitted after killing Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, was pulled over on July 28 around noon. He said he was heading "nowhere in particular." He told officers that he was armed. The officer instructed him to put his gun in the glove compartment. The officer gave Zimmerman a warning after running a background check. Zimmerman reportedly asked the officer if he recognized him, but the officer did not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 05:01 PM And yet more horseshit from SquirmingBullshitBruce. As usual. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: KB in Iowa Date: 31 Jul 13 - 04:58 PM The Black gentleman said How can any of you question evidence like this? If the Black gentleman said it then I believe it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don Firth Date: 31 Jul 13 - 04:24 PM My my!! Did you teach Fred Astaire how to tap-dance, Beardedbruce? That was pretty spectacular!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 04:04 PM AS I STATED, for those with reading comprehension problems: The NRA was FORMED for various reasons. The effect was The NRA was founded shortly after the American Civil War by Union Army officers who were appalled by the lack of shooting skills among the Union soldiers during the war and determined to correct this problem by encouraging the shooting sports and marksmanship among the general population, including former slaves in the former slave states. This made the NRA very unpopular in the former slaves states and the NRA was considered an enemy by the Ku Klux Klan. The Black gentleman said: "The National Rifle Association was started, founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect free slaves from the Ku Klux Klan," said Alford. "They would raise money, buy arms, show the free slaves how to use those arms and protect their families. God bless you. Many of us probably wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the NRA" he said. I don't know the religious views of those founders, but what he said was correct- they wanted to protect free slaves, as witness their actions post-war. ** I ** never claimed it was their primary or only reason. They probaly wanted to eat fresh meat and not waste ammunition, as well- but the Black gentleman seems to think it was a significant improvement over the previous situation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 03:39 PM Yeah, so what, BlogoshitBruce? It was crap from a blog first time round & now you're repeating yourself and going around in circles, and its still unsubstantiated horseshit. Sez nothing whatsoever about the NRA "arming freed slaves". You can't verify horsseshit with yet more horseshit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don Firth Date: 31 Jul 13 - 03:38 PM Founding and purpose of the National Rifle Association: The National Rifle Association was first chartered in the state of New York on November 17, 1871 by Army and Navy Journal editor William Conant Church and General George Wood Wingate. Its first president was Civil War General Ambrose Burnside, who had worked as a Rhode Island gunsmith, and Wingate was the original secretary of the organization. Church succeeded Burnside as president in the following year.Further, The NRA formed a legislative affairs division in response to debate concerning passage of the 1934 National Firearms Act, some of the earliest federal gun control legislation in the United States. The NRA supported the act, along with the Gun Control Act of 1968. The two acts collectively created a system to license gun dealers and prohibit criminals and those with mental impairments from owning firearms.Which they are now, apparently, trying to gut! As to the protection of Black citizens against the KKK: While African Americans were being terrorized by the Ku Klux Klan, where the Klan were sometimes aided by local law enforcement, the NRA setup charters to help train local African American communities to be able to protect themselves. The most prominent case being in 1960 in Monroe, N.C. where the local National Association for the Advancement of Colored People head, Robert Williams, also chartered an NRA Rifle Club that successully defended an assault on one of their leader's homes by the KKK without casualties.Nowhere in the history of the organization do I find anything about the NRA being formed to protect Black citizens from the KKK. The only relationship I found was referred to in the last paragraph above, in which a chapter of the NRA was initiated for the purpose by the head of the NAACP. Long, long after the initial organization of the NRA in 1871, inspired by the poor marksmanship of the vast majority of Union soldiers. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 03:34 PM "Oh, and BullshitBruce: I'll be happy to engage in a discussion of facts just so soon as you post one or more, instead of the usual horseshit." Since you state what I post is shit, without any backup, proof, or even hint of why other than you don't agree with it, I fail to see how you could engage in a discussion of facts- you have not presented ANY, either in support of your viewpoint, or in opposition to mine. That is YOUR usual horseshit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 03:30 PM The NRA was founded shortly after the American Civil War by Union Army officers who were appalled by the lack of shooting skills among the Union soldiers during the war and determined to correct this problem by encouraging the shooting sports and marksmanship among the general population, including former slaves in the former slave states. This made the NRA very unpopular in the former slaves states and the NRA was considered an enemy by the Ku Klux Klan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 03:05 PM Oh, and BullshitBruce: I'll be happy to engage in a discussion of facts just so soon as you post one or more, instead of the usual horseshit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 03:03 PM No, sorry, BeardyBruceShit, The NRA as had nothing to do with the arming of freed slaves. Now, perhaps some of the individuals in the organization did, which would not be at all surprising, since they were Union Army veterans and Yankees. Duh. Go back to that logic course again: Correlation does not imply causation. And as Bill Nye reatedly admonished: Extroadinary claims (like yours) require extraordinary proof. I'm waiting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:38 PM "So, BeardedBullshit, you ADMIT that your posting was utter bullshit unsupported by fact, source, or reference. Thanks for your honesty." Not at all, Greggie boy. I have stated the absolute truth- you are shit. You are a proven racist, by your own posts. You and the Ubermensch attack people rather than discuss facts. The NRA was founded by people who DID help arm freed slaves, as my post said- The BLACK gentleman stated that " The National Rifle Association was started, founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect free slaves from the Ku Klux Klan. I do not know about the religious part, but they did want to arm freed slaves, and acted to demonstrate it. What part is BS, other than the bigotry you have in your own heart? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don Firth Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:36 PM Yeah, Bobert, I too was a member of the NRA for a few years. But after awhile, some of their articles in "The American Rifleman" and the various "alert" type bulletins they sent me got so far out that I let my membership lapse. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:33 PM Hullo, Bobert- Me too. I'm fairly well up on NRA history; was a life member myself, joined circa 1963/4, shot in matches, all that jive. Sent my membership card back in & told them to shove it about the same time George H.W. Bush did [ but I did it first ;>) ]- one of the few decent things he did as President. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:29 PM So, BeardedBullshit, you ADMIT that your posting was utter bullshit unsupported by fact, source, or reference. Thanks for your honesty. And you still haven't addressed the bullshit statement "The National Rifle Association was started, founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect free slaves from the Ku Klux Klan." As for your That is what the posted section ...[thru]...the mindset of those founders. is concerned, you really do need to take a course in logical fallacies. Comparing that to the original postings or the Blogoshit "article" falls into the class of "Therefore, Socrates is a fish." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:08 PM I don't read his stuff anymore, Greg, but there was a time when the NRA was upstanding and not at all political... I remember those days... I was not only a member but part of a shoot club that competed against other clubs... Today, however, they both tend to attract the same kinds of people: white, pissed off and with poor-me-victim complexes... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don Firth Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:08 PM Not only is the hatred, but in some cases the level of the hatred is downright appalling. I live in the Pacific Northwest (the opposite corner of the country from the South), not particularly known for its racial prejudice. A substantial percentage of Seattle's population, and of cities in the surrounding area, is a patchwork quilt of Asian and Black, along with a fair number of Native Americans. And we all live together and work together. But every now and then. . . . When I was going shooting with the fellow I've mentioned (the one who turned out to be a bit more trigger-happy than I felt it was safe to be around), another guy showed up at some of our "powder-burning" sessions. He favored a Ruger Super-Blackhawk .44 magnum, the most powerful handgun made—looks like an old fashioned six-shooter, but a real handful (he let me shoot a few rounds with it, and it was like firing a hand-held volcano!). He was from the South (I don't know which state) and he had a real "corn pone and chittlin's" accent. He also had a dog, a black Labrador, which he had named "Jigaboo," a disparaging Southern racial epithet for Blacks. One time when about four of us were plinking in an area with a good backstop (good place for it), a middle-age black man showed up to a little shooting, and this guy from the South was suddenly on edge. The only thing different about this man from the other people who were there was that he was Black. But the Southerner left off his target shooting and spent all of his time staring at the Black man and fondling his Ruger. It was patently obvious what was on his mind! There was absolutely nothing untoward about the Black man, he was quite polite and friendly. What he inspired in the Southerner was not fear, but unadulterated hatred, and what had all the symptoms of an urge to kill. In the Fifties, I knew several Black jazz musicians who hung out in The Chalet, a University District coffee house and sometimes had jam sessions in the evenings. The jazz combos were generally racially mixed, and although I was just getting into folk singing at the time, music was our common bond. I also worked at Boeing for a number of years, and one of my supervisors was Black. In fact, he and I often car-pooled to work. And at the telephone company, one of the supervisors there was a young Black man (he had a bit of an accent, and he told me that he was actually from Tonga). And one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen, in addition to being highly intelligent and a generally very nice person, was Rosetta, another co-worker with the phone company, who I often had coffee with And she was Black. When I encounter some people who hate other people for no good reason other than the melanin level in their skin, even to the extent sometimes that they want to kill them, I really wonder what in the hell is wrong with them!! Sick!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:03 PM "Please supply evidence of the truth of this statement, BlogoShit Bruce." I have no need to further prove it- You claim it is BS, please prove that of shut the fuck up. Y"our "source" is a condensed article from Blog-O-Pedia, so is not a source at all." So I can disallow all uses of such by you and those you support? That leaves you exactly --- NOTHING to back up your claims. "AND it doesn't address the original BullshitBruce posting that A quote I posted- take it up with the black who wrote it. It is HIS opinion-which I consider as valid ( or more so ) as your. "The National Rifle Association was started, founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect free slaves from the Ku Klux Klan." That is what the posted section says- the people who founded the NRA had fought to end slavery, had acted to protect free slaves, and were hated by your friends the KKK because they supported arming blacks. Not their primary purpose, but part of the mindset of those founders. "except between the lines where it tends to DISPROVE your bullshit." How so, SFB? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 01:37 PM ... the NRA was considered an enemy by the Ku Klux Klan. Please supply evidence of the truth of this statement, BlogoShit Bruce. Your "source" is a condensed article from Blog-O-Pedia, so is not a source at all. AND it doesn't address the original BullshitBruce posting that The National Rifle Association was started, founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect free slaves from the Ku Klux Klan. except between the lines where it tends to DISPROVE your bullshit. As usual, another steaming load of 14-karat horseshit. But thanks for playing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 13 - 01:03 PM Nice post, SJL... I agree that the pro-Zimmerman camp comes off as not only racist but not capable of empathy toward Trayvon and his family... I don't know where you live or how old you are but I came up the 50s in the South... I have witnessed first hand the hate that way too many white people had and continue to have of black people... Unfortunately, this hatred goes way back and has been passed down from generation to generation... I'm old enough to remember the civil rights workers who were murdered back then... More recently 5 civil rights demonstrators were gunned down in Greensboro, NC in 1979 and no arrests were made... These people had mothers and fathers... Sisters, brothers, kids of their own... That is the real tragedy here that we still have pockets of rampant racism here in America... No, its not just the South but seems the South has more than its share... This idea that the jury has spoken and we need to get over it is unAmerican... It's not what our country should be about because if we allow anyone to be oppressed then we are all in danger of being oppressed... This needs to get solved... We either value life or we don't... It's that simple... If we don't value the lives of black people than why should we value the life of anyone??? That's the issue here... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Elmore Date: 31 Jul 13 - 12:42 PM Guest at 10:30 a.m. was me, sans cookie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 12:36 PM "NRA History The NRA was founded shortly after the American Civil War by Union Army officers who were appalled by the lack of shooting skills among the Union soldiers during the war and determined to correct this problem by encouraging the shooting sports and marksmanship among the general population, including former slaves in the former slave states. This made the NRA very unpopular in the former slaves states and the NRA was considered an enemy by the Ku Klux Klan. Union Army Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate are the officially listed founders of the NRA. They were granted a charter from the state of New York on November 17, 1871. The first NRA president was Ambrose E. Burnside, a commander of the Army of the Potomac. Former US President Ulysses S. Grant, who had enacted the 1871 law declaring the Ku Klux Klan to be an illegal terrorist organisation, was elected president of the National Rifle Association in 1883. Nine of the NRA's first ten presidents had fought against slavery during the Civil War. Including: Gen. Winfield Scott Hancock, Gen. Phillip Sheridan. During Reconstruction, Gen. Sheridan removed hundreds of local officials from office in Louisiana and Texas for violating the rights of former slaves and for failing to enforce laws for their protection." http://www.fact-index.com/n/na/national_rifle_association.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don Firth Date: 31 Jul 13 - 12:35 PM I don't think this needs much comment. It speaks for itself. Florida Cops Shoot Unarmed Black Man in His Mother's DrivewayPolicemen with their guns out and aimed at Middleton claiming they opened fire on Middleton because they thought he was "attacking them." Sound familiar? (Great shooting, by the way!) Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,SJL Date: 31 Jul 13 - 12:07 PM GfS, I share your distaste for the divisive and exploitative nature of politics, however this case is about more than that. To say that it is only about politics distances one from very real pain surrounding this case. I think the difference between you and me is that you seem to be able to use your mode of reasoning to insulate yourself from that pain whereas it's my nature to feel it. My boyfriend is the same way. His oft repeated phrase: "You can't let it eat you up, hon." Not everything bothers me this much, but I've lost a lot of blood over this one. What has really hurt me about this case is what I perceive to be, in the pro-Zimmerman camp, an utter disregard for Trayvon Martin's humanity, that of his family and for Afro-American people in general. Zimmerman himself has shown no remorse whatsoever. That's the sign of a calculating, manipulative liar with no real conscience, and if you asked me, it betrays his ill intent. All the inconvenient facts about Zimmerman's history: his sexual abuse of a cousin, his domestic abuse, his assault on a police officer, his constant 911 calls over trivia, his lying to the court about his finances, his self-appointed status as Neighborhood Watch captain and obsession with doing police work, his instigation and escalation of the incident - of these things were essentially swept under the rug in favor of making the point that there was no racism involved. Trayvon Martin was put on trial to accomplish this and just below the surface of all that, is the very real and very racist assumption that Trayvon Martin deserved to die. It's that grinning in your face thing. Let's just pretend, shall we? I look at the people in the pro-Zimmerman camp as people without an appropriate sense of decency. I feel like saying to them, "It's painfully obvious to me that it is more important to you to promote the lie that none of this has been about race and to establish that with an acquittal than it is for you to feel for your fellow man. In fact, in order to avoid feeling for your fellow man, you have made him less than human. Before I become anything like you, I'll take more pain." Human beings have emotions. We are designed that way. The idea that emotions necessarily blind one to facts and truth is a very white idea that I have never ascribed to. Many times emotion is what allows you to cut through flimsy and far flung rationalizations, to interpret facts correctly and arrive at the truth. When slavery was in place, there were rational arguments galore as to why the status quo should proceed unimpeded, but in the final analysis it was human empathy that finally put an end to it. All that emotion. That said GfS, I would not relegate you to the pro-Zimmerman camp. I have heard you rant against what you perceive as a dogmatic adherence to an emotionally charged and highly politicized viewpoint. I have not heard you say that you believe what George Zimmerman did was right. On the other hand, I think your philosophical take on things is a bit of a distancing mechanism. You could stand to feel a little of this pain. Are you sure you won't have some? There's plenty to go around. Help yourself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST Date: 31 Jul 13 - 10:30 AM Glad to see the Trayvon Martin Memorial Thread is still extant. Of course, I don't read it anymore. Bad for my blood pressure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 10:29 AM So, GregF believes that blacks are liars, Even more idiotic than usual, BullshBruce. What I KNOW ( not believe ) is that the gentleman is ignorant of the facts, misinformed, or lying. You, on the other hand, are either ignorantly or intentionally (with the probability favoring the latter) repeating a falsehood. Bottom line is the statement is simply not true. Plenty more evidence, and at some length is available, about the truth of the formation of the NRA. Lets see you post something- other than the gent's statement - that supports his assertion. As for YOUR assertions, they are, as per usual, pure horseshit. (Suggestion: look up the second form of the ignorance fallacy) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 09:38 AM And Ubermensch Bobert demonstrates his perfection of the "Liberal Method" Ignore anything that you disagree with, and then "everyone" agrees with you and you can claim to be right. Far better than looking at the facts and trying to understand what really happened. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 13 - 09:25 AM You are so ignorant of the real world, GfinS, that it is pathetic... We progressives have done what we can to bring about saner policies and laws... I've been arrested... I've been harassed... I've been assaulted... I've even been fired from a job because... ...unlike folks like you who sit on their lazy asses and tell real people who have walked the walk to "shut the fuck up" I'm doing what I can... You are approaching a point where - like the other irrational person here - where I will just ignore your moronic postings... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 09:13 AM So, GregF believes that blacks are liars, since this is a quote" from one, as the supporting clicky says. Nothing in the NRA site says this is NOT true- but it was more important to the blacks affected than to the NRA- ONE aspect of 2nd amendment rights is to provide for the self-defense of all citizens. But GregF is one of those that Ubermensch Bobert would complain about- if he did not support Bobert's "World View" that everyone who disagrees with him is a racist, and everyone who agrees with him is above criticism. GregF distorts postings, and makes unsupported comments, calling things shit when the shit is in his own understanding of reality. Yet most "liberals" here have no problem with that, and support him and his attacks on people rather than the discuss the facts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 09:02 AM "The National Rifle Association was started, founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect free slaves from the Ku Klux Klan," Absolute, total, and utter bullshit. As would be expected from BullshitBruce. See: http://www.nrahq.org/history.asp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Huest from Sanity Date: 31 Jul 13 - 08:52 AM Robot: "So what do we have??? Loopholes, i.e. stupid laws that allow people to get away with murder..." So what do we have??? Loopholes, i.e. stupid people that allow laws to get away with murder... So either change them, or shut the fuck up! ...and by the way, is it 'murder' if it is 'within the law'? THAT is what the jury had to decide. Stupid law??..maybe...but GZ thought that he was within the law..the jury thought the same thing....and maybe we ALL think that the trigger shouldn't have been pulled...maybe we all should think that Martin had no right to be beating him up, either. Like I said, a chain of stupid decisions...and failure to see that, is just still more stupidity! So go beat your pail and march around...as long as you don't open your mouth, you won't sound as stupid as you'll look! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 08:42 AM "There is no dispute that an armed Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin..." Except by everyone that disagrees with Ubermensch Bobert. Another Bobert "fact"- ( restated lie) The "stalking" is in the minds of the bigot and racists, who project what THEY would do onto Zimmerman. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 13 - 08:38 AM There is no dispute that an armed Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin... So what do we have??? Loopholes, i.e. stupid laws that allow people to get away with murder... In "stand your ground" states I can murder you and get away with it... I just need to do it where there are no witnesses... I shoot you and then claim that I was fearful that you might harm me... Bang, bang, you're dead... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 08:10 AM No wonder Ubermensch Bobert hates the NRA so much... "The National Rifle Association was started, founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect free slaves from the Ku Klux Klan," said Alford. "They would raise money, buy arms, show the free slaves how to use those arms and protect their families. God bless you. Many of us probably wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the NRA" he said. http://www.nationalbcc.org/index.php?view=article&id=1681%3Apresidentceo-harry-c-alford-praises-the-national-rifle-association&o |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Richard Bridge Date: 31 Jul 13 - 05:23 AM Oh, FFS, please go back wherever you came from. Planet Zog was it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:06 AM SJL: "1.) The poll reflects a general lack of community. In our society it's every man for himself. It makes it very easy for those who are less affected by what happened to Trayvon Martin to be in denial.." The lack of community comes from so many people who have latched on to this, not because of genuine concern for their fellow man, but a political NOTION, which is being fed by whatever slant of the story they wish to believe, or even MAKE UP, and the FACTS they persevere to ignore, and then fan their need to feel relevant, on the wandering weak! All one has to do, is scroll back through this thread, and see that what I just said is absolutely true. This isn't about justice, this isn't about 'righting a wrong', this isn't about ending racism or bigotry....it's about opportunists, needing to FEEL important, taking a stand, based on the exploitation of feelings, pumped up by ignorance, and lies.After reviewing a LOT of this thread, there is no other rational conclusion. It seems to go straight down 'party' lines...and from what I've seen, BOTH the parties have more to do with corruption, justifying it, and rallying people emotionally to 'their cause'. Truth is, there is no 'cause'... ...as for me, I'm not with either party..frankly I'm ashamed at both of them! Both the parties are just trying to suck people into their bullshit. Only racists and bigots relate to any of this contrived bullshit...I'm clear. ...or as I've said before, 'I'm not with the party..I'm with the band!' You guys NEED hate, whether it be in yourselves, or what you can stir up in others....as for me, you've FAILED to stir any of it up in me. The bullshit is to easy to see, and to see that this is all where it's coming from. Absolutely pathetic....you've proudly shown what it is to be small! GfS P.S. My prior post was going to be my last on this thread...maybe altogether...'common sense' has no place in your politics! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,SJL Date: 30 Jul 13 - 10:17 PM That's great Bobert that you plan to demonstrate on the 28th. I should find out if anything is planned in my area. This is rather unfortunate: http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/07/22/204595068/polls-show-wide-rac I have a couple of ideas on this: 1.) The poll reflects a general lack of community. In our society it's every man for himself. It makes it very easy for those who are less affected by what happened to Trayvon Martin to be in denial. If they are not directly impacted, then oh well. Sad. 2.) The percentage of white people who feel that this has been a travesty of justice most likely includes many young people. My son's generation is not racist (N.Y.) So race relations are bound to improve in the future. It's just a matter of time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 13 - 02:43 PM Speaking of outsiders... A lot of the laws that states are implementing are being pushed by: 1. Candidates whose campaigns were financed by outside money 2. Ad campaigns for or against policies by outside money Why have the Koch brothers and the buddies poured so much of their money into North Carolina??? They don't live here or own businesses here... Talk about outsiders... These rich people are pouring tens of million$$$ into buying up other folks statehouses... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 30 Jul 13 - 02:32 PM I did question the influence of outsiders in achieving the advances that have been made. Dam right, Q! Its them infernal OUTSIDE AGITATORS who screwed things up, as Tom Paxton reminded us: We didn't know", said the congregation, singing a hymn in their church of White "Press was full of lies about us, preacher told us we were right." "The outside agitators came, they burned some churches and put the blame "On decent southern people's names to set our Colored people aflame" "And maybe some of our boys got hot and a couple of Nigras and Reds got shot" "They should have stayed where they belonged!""The preacher would have told us if we'd done wrong." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 30 Jul 13 - 02:30 PM What Bobert considers fair rules: "Also, when people make up stuff that they claim other people have said and then argue with the made up stuff it gets pretty old fast... Plus, it is dishonest... Also, if I present an position and you challenge me on it, fine... If in my response I ask direct questions to someone who has challenged me and they refuse to answer them then that is also dishonest..." Yet he does not follow them himself- another example of the Ubermensch . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 30 Jul 13 - 02:28 PM but allegations about what I believe were made that are defamatory. Just as you did to me, Q, and now YOU'RE whining? Gimmie a fuckin' break, will ya? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jul 13 - 01:09 PM I said I would no longer post below the line. but allegations about what I believe were made that are defamatory. I do not support nor believe that racism should be a factor in society. Of course racism exists. It exists in all cultures. Murder based on race is killing many in Uganda, Congo, Kenya and elsewhere. People in all many societies cleave to "their own," those who share their values if not the racial-cultural pattern they were raised with. The killing in Mali, Nigeria, etc. is based on religion but race is a factor. Anyone who knows the history of Ireland cannot ignore the social separation of the Catholics and the Protestant segments of the population in Northern Ireland. Race is an un-admitted element here too. The UK has received immigrants of many races, and a good deal of integration has taken place. But social integration is still limited, and will remain so for some time to come. In Japan, mixed race, Korean and southeast Asians are not accepted socially and suffer discrimination in the workplace. Mixed white-Japanese families are not accepted by many Japanese. South Africa is a great experiment, attempting to achieve equality of opportunity. This throws the different groups together, and social acceptance is developing. Divides remain. Here in Calgary, there is little social acceptance of the Indians whose reservation borders the city. Calgary has over 20 percent visible minorities. Acceptance socially is growing, but many prefer their own neighborhoods, with cultures they have brought with them. Calgary has an excellent mayor, who happens to be a Muslim; he and others in the business, professional and political fields are building bridges socially. I have been accused of racism because of opinions I have expressed. What did I say? I believe that the result of the Zimmerman trial was the only one possible, given the evidence presented in the trial and the laws of the state of Florida. Nowhere did I say that I approve of the system or that white is right. But it is up to the people of the state of Florida to change the system and its perception, which is unlikely at present because of the great wave of resentment build up because of decreased income and insurance changes which are blamed on the federal administration and Obama (not deserved but perceived). The acceptance of Tea principles, hare-brained as they are, is based on resentment of many kinds. I commented on the fight for equality carried on by King, his predecessors, and the Black people of the South. I am glad of the progress that has been made, and hope for more. The federal government and the courts made changes in law, and sent marshals to see that the changes were carried out. These advances affected much of the country, not just the South. The accusation of racism perhaps stems mostly from my remark that outsiders, the white Freedom Riders especially, created resentment in the South. This many years later it is still resented. The sit-ins, marches and efforts of the Black community and progressive southern whites towards equality generated opposition but not resentment. Many white citizens in the South agreed that the move to equality was necessary, and gave their support. Many Blacks have been accepted in business and the political and policing fields. Discrimination remains, but is cannot be overcome overnight. Nowhere did I say that I am or was against the moves to equality; I agree that they were absolutely necessary. The sacrifices made by members of the Black community and their southern supporters were important and must be remembered. I did question the influence of outsiders in achieving the advances that have been made. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 13 - 12:05 PM Well, SJL... I already write a ton of letters and will continue to do so... There is going to be a national protest - I believe on August 28th - in every major city... Just as I did during the Occupy movement I'll be there with my 5 gallon paint pail, drumstick and appropriate sign on my back... This ain't over by a long shot... The KKK used say, "Nothing to see here, move along" after one of their lynching parties... To me that is exactly what we are hearing from the usual white suspects here when they say, "The trial is over. Zimmerman is innocent. Time to move on."... No, it's not time to move on... It's time to get this thing right... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 30 Jul 13 - 11:50 AM THE LIBERAL VIEW: "You know what Bruce? I'm just going to ignore you. ... So we are people with common sense and we know what happened." Sounds just like the KKK after they lynch someone- THEY know what happened, too, regardless of any inconvenient facts or evidence, and were willing to insure "justice" regardless of the courts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Richard Bridge Date: 30 Jul 13 - 11:26 AM Q - visit the real world some time. You don't have to be black to see how racism works. You only have to open your eyes. I see it all the time with my girlfriend. If we go, say, to a North African restaurant people expect her to pick the menu. But she was born and bred in England, and raised in South London by her mother who is of Irish/Cockney background and heritage. She got so fed up with the assumptions about who she was that she has "Made in England" tattooed on the back of her neck. |
