BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:24 PM

Fuck off, wrong man...

Go back to your cave... Like you said, you haven't been keeping up so why do you feel like you have a right to pollute this thread with your Obama hate???

Start another Obama hate thread while catching up with the facts of this case, dude...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Songwronger
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:08 PM

So what's the status on this case? I haven't been following. Will Obama and Bill Ayers get their desired race riots out of it?

Judicial Watch published an interesting article yesterday. They did a Freedom Of Information Act search and learned that the Obama/Holder team sent people to agitate in the case. Federal racial agitation paid for by taxpayers:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/documents-obtained-by-judicial-watch-detail-role-of-justice-department-in

Documents Obtained by Judicial Watch Detail Role of Justice Department in Organizing Trayvon Martin Protests

(Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch announced today that it has obtained documents in response to local, state, and federal records requests revealing that a little-known unit of the Department of Justice (DOJ), the Community Relations Service (CRS), was deployed to Sanford, FL, following the Trayvon Martin shooting to help organize and manage rallies and protests against George Zimmerman.

•March 25 – 27, 2012, CRS spent $674.14 upon being "deployed to Sanford, FL, to work marches, demonstrations, and rallies related to the shooting and death of an African-American teen by a neighborhood watch captain."

•March 25 – 28, 2012, CRS spent $1,142.84 "in Sanford, FL to work marches, demonstrations, and rallies related to the shooting and death of an African-American teen by a neighborhood watch captain.

•March 30 – April 1, 2012, CRS spent $892.55 in Sanford, FL "to provide support for protest deployment in Florida."

•March 30 – April 1, 2012, CRS spent an additional $751.60 in Sanford, FL "to provide technical assistance to the City of Sanford, event organizers, and law enforcement agencies for the march and rally on March 31."

•April 3 – 12, 2012, CRS spent $1,307.40 in Sanford, FL "to provide technical assistance, conciliation, and onsite mediation during demonstrations planned in Sanford."

•April 11 – 12, 2012, CRS spent $552.35 in Sanford, FL "to provide technical assistance for the preparation of possible marches and rallies related to the fatal shooting of a 17 year old African American male."

And so on.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 08:25 PM

That's the point I kinda suggested a couple days ago, Don...

GfinS denies everything but is complicit in some pretty racists thinking here... And a double dose of denial...

I mean, you can't go claiming to be this neutral party and then go about trashing the prosecution's arguments...

That is called lying...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 07:51 PM

Goofball, that is EXACTLY what happened!

That part was clear--UNTIL people like you started trying to muddy the waters.

Now, what possible reason could you have for doing that, usless you have already assuned that Martin was the guilty party here.

And WHY, I wonder, would you do that?

. . . a seventeen-year-old black kid out walking at night must be up to some kind of mischief, right?

Don Firth

P. S. Where do you live? Mississippi? Alabama? Georgia? Where?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 07:27 PM

Hells bells, GfinS...

You have defended Zimmerman at every turn...

You don't have to lie about it...

You and the other guy are the two biggest Zimmerman worshipers here...

Hey, I don't give a rat's ass about it but for you to deny it is like a joke...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 07:18 PM

Firth: "If I were walking down the street in the evening and someone approached me pointing a gun at me, I think I could safely assume that I was being attacked."

That's probably true...but NOT what happened according to all accounts..so knock it off! Your supposing is NOT evidence, it's only supposing!

Bobert: "So, GfinS... Right after you state that your not a Zimmerman worshiper you go and defend Zimmerman point by point..."

I was NOT defending Zimmerman, and AM NOT defending Zimmerman, I'm only stating what points of the law, as you listed the 'charges'. If you want to 'try' this case, in your mind, you still have to relate to what happened and what didn't..and if you look at this actual case, you have to have ALL the points backed up with admissible evidence, that is substantiated...and though you have circumstantial points, you have to tie them in, with THIS actual case..not by hypotheticals, or emotional 'what ifs'....just by supported facts. What I posted was your accusations, held up to the law...in this case or any other. Nobody has proved or disproved the self defense part, as of yet, except the eye-witness who saw Zimmerman on the bottom, getting punched. How he got there, or what immediately preceded that, is anybody's guess....that being said, you can't convict someone based on a guess....Right?
Hey, if Zimmerman ILLEGALLY provoked this, then he SHOULD go down...but nobody has proven that, have they?

By the way, neither of you have broached my questions/comments on perjury by Holder, and the deaths of the border patrol agents...or Nixon getting blasted for his remarks about Manson, before his trial..what's the matter??..You can't live up to your own double standards????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 06:53 PM

So, GfinS... Right after you state that your not a Zimmerman worshiper you go and defend Zimmerman point by point...

Uh huh???

Delusional...

Not quite as bad as the "other guy" but getting there...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 06:38 PM

If I were walking down the street in the evening and someone approached me pointing a gun at me, I think I could safely assume that I was being attacked.

And Zimmerman didn't just go against police advice by getting out of his car and accosting Martin, he was going against their orders. They told him to stay in the car and not approach Martin.

Martin was doing nothing illegal when accosted by Zimmerman, and he had every reason to be frightened of him and try to defend himself.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 05:49 PM

Correction::

It was Rahm Emanuel who said, ""You never want a serious crisis to go to waste."
Sorry, Axelrod...it was the other dickhead!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 05:38 PM

Bobert: "You are one of the most rabid Zimmerman defenders here... Any argument that might implicate your hero is met with reams and reams of rebuttal...

First of all, THE ABOVE is an outright LIE! you're getting as bad as Firth!
Show me a post where I defended Zimmerman!

Now to YOUR 'defense' of opinions, vs evidence...

Bobert: "Here's what we do know to be factual:

1. Zimmerman profiled Martin

Not a crime, and no proof that he did profile him. That is an assumption or opinion, which is not evidence.

2. Zimmerman called police

Not a crime, is it?

3. Zimmerman was told by the police to stay in his vehicle

True, and he should have stayed put..but, going against that advice is not a crime.

4. Zimmerman disobeyed police and got out of his vehicle with a gun

True, but not a crime.

5. Zimmerman followed Martin

True, but not a crime.

6. Zimmerman shot and killed Martin

True, but the circumstances are what the trial is about..if it was self defense, it's not a crime...if it was premeditated, AND PROVABLE, then that is a crime. So far, premeditation has not been proved.

Those events are not in dispute...

BULLSHIT!

Here's the defense's story about the events:

1. Martin attacked Zimmerman - Not likely... See Don T's comments on the size differential...

'Not likely' is what?? an opinion or wishful thinking? It is NOT evidence that was supported by the trial.
"See Don T's comments on the size differential..."
It only matters if he was a witness....so it's not evidence. You say you took martial arts..so did I AND taught it to a Sheriff's department, and two officers from a town within the county..and I got news for you, size matters little in martial arts...and you SHOULD know that!

2. Martin got Zimmerman down on the ground - Not likely... Again, the size differential makes that claim very doubtful

You might be right on that one, Zimmerman laid down and said 'Straddle me, and start slugging me'...and tell the eye-witness to watch!...'Not likely'??? ..then what did the eye-witness see?? Martin on top..You're 'not likely' is also no evidence..it is a very biased opinions, supported by NO ONE but your imagination...not by evidence!

3. Zimmerman was the one who screamed for "help" - Not likely... Someone yelled for "help", a shot was fired a second later and that voice was not heard again...

Except the eye witness said the guy on the bottom was calling and screaming for help!..The recorded calls on the cell phone could not be confirmed by anyone, to be entered into evidence

Here's what else we know:

1. Zimmerman lied in court when he was asked if he had money for his defense...

True...but that is a separate charge, and not relevant to the events leading up to the shooting.

2. Zimmerman lied in court about not having an understanding of Florida's "stand your ground" and "self defense" laws...

True...that's a perjury charge, not a murder charge...TWO different crimes.
(By the way, Holder has done some serious lying under oath too, but you don't seem to mind...and one of those lies led to the deaths of border patrol agents...but it gets a pass from you, right?

Here's where the court (judge) has made serious mistakes:

1. No gag order thus allowing Zimmerman's attorney free shot at poisoning the jury pool...

But President Obama didn't poison anything by saying Martin was like his son??? Shit, even Nixon got a lot of crap about his pre-trial comments about Charles Manson, but again, this president gets a pass, right??

2. Not permitting prosecution to present "expert witnesses" who were well versed in voice recognition technology...

They cancelled each other out, one was for the prosecution, one for the defense...then it turns out there was not enough time on the recording to make a determination, one way or the other...right?

3. Permitting a stream of Zimmerman's friends to testify that the voice on the tape was Zimmerman's...

..and Martins mom said it was Trayvon's...but the dad wasn't so sure, and put reasonable doubt on the mom's testimony. The prosecution opened up that can of worms by calling the mom to the stand FIRST. .in which case, it allows the defense to call theirs to rebut!

Bobert: "That pretty much sums up this case..."


That pretty much sums up this case...

Look, I'm NOT defending Zimmerman...as I've said ALL ALONG, it was acts of stupidity..on both their parts.

All I've done was address YOUR opinions, that are NOT evidence, just opinions, as to the law.
As I've said before. I DO NOT HAVE A PIG IN THIS RACE....my main concern, is that this doesn't spawn any more violence, and especially, any more violence spurred on by you, or anyone emotionalizing it for political leverage....

THAT'S ALL!
I do not want to hear about more whites shooting blacks because of them defending themselves, because some stupid, reckless idiot, whipped them up in a frenzy to attack each other..because those who do, would be an accomplice to whatever crimes comes out of it!

Also, you have not addressed the issue of Holder's DOJ sending people down to train them how to demonstrate.

..as Axelrod said, 'A good crisis is a terrible thing to waste'.

What a fucking shit head!

Care to address reality???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 05:07 PM

Sorry to shout, but everybody who blames Trayvon Martin for his own murder is studiously ignoring the obvious!

Don Firth

P. S. In matters like this, I have a low disgust threshold.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 05:03 PM

I have had my nose broken twice (football, boxing), Eb, and my brother has had his broken once (baseball) and in all three cases both eyes blackened...

Plus, looking at the pics of the back of Zimmerman's head and factoring in the other lies he has been caught telling I'm wondering if he didn't self inflict those wounds on himself because they were so superficial that they didn't require any stitches??? Had someone really pounded his head on concrete the wounds would be a lot more severe and and each one would be accompanied with a big knot, as well...

Doesn't much matter... The trial, if you can call it that, is over and Zimmerman will soon be acquitted of murder...

Who says you can't get away with murder??? Happens every day...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 05:01 PM

And all of the Zimmerman apologists here are conveniently ignoring the fact that IF ZIMMERMAN HAD STAYED IN HIS CAR AS THE POLICE TOLD HIM TO DO, this never would have happened!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 04:30 PM

Incidentally, it was repeatedly reported that Martin had broken Zimmerman's nose. From the photos, it seems far more likely to me that he simply gave him a bloody nose. I've never had my nose broken but I've had many a bloody nose. Is everything called a "broken nose" nowadays?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 03:26 PM

A positive step (I guess) is that the judge has ruled that Zimmerman can be convicted of a lesser charge...

I think he should have been charged with 1st degree murder hate crime myself since he profiled Zimmerman...

Given the way the trial has been conducted, however, odds are that he will not pay for this murder in any manner... Well, at least in this court... Maybe in civil court but it's not certain that Martin's parents would have the cash for the level of attorneys that would be required to go up against Zimmerman's donors... Of course, if they were awarded judgement, Zimmerman would go into his rope-a-dope, I-don't-have-any-money routine so it is doubtful if the Martins would ever see a single dime from this creep...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 03:19 PM

Thanks, BullshitBruce, for anotherextensive run of blogoshit that has nothing to do with anything.

Attaboy. Keep up the "goode work".

Not.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 02:24 PM

As presented at trial:

Zimmerman, 29, says he shot Martin because he feared for his life, and much of the testimony last week could bolster his self-defense claims.

Prosecutors this week are expected to try to show discrepancies in Zimmerman's story. Here's Zimmerman's account, from the interview played in court and a written statement he made:

Zimmerman tried to follow Martin in his car after calling 911.
He left the vehicle to find the direction where the "suspect" went, even though the 911 dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow the teen. Singleton also testified that Zimmerman included the term "suspect" without coaching from her. She never labeled Martin that.

Martin "approached him" and asked, "You got a problem?" Zimmerman said no, and Martin responded, "You do now."

Martin punched Zimmerman in the face, making him fall backward. Martin got on top of him.

Zimmerman yelled for help multiple times, but Martin told him to "shut the f*** up." Martin started smashing Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

Martin went to grab for Zimmerman's now exposed firearm (Zimmerman told the dispatcher he was armed) and said, "You're gonna die tonight, mothaf*****."
Zimmerman un-bolstered the gun first and shot Martin.
An onlooker told Zimmerman he was going to call the police, but Zimmerman already had.
When the police arrived, Zimmerman placed his hands above his head. When an officer asked who shot Martin, Zimmerman said, "I did."
Two parts of the conversation with Singleton didn't make it onto the recording. Singleton testified that Zimmerman didn't even know Martin had died. When he found out, she said he "slung his head down." According to Singleton, Zimmerman also asked her about her cross, saying "In my religion, it's always a sin to kill somebody."



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/george-zimmermans-police-statement-2013-7#ixzz2YlKkX5l7


Nothing was presented by the prosecution to indicate any of this did not occur. All the circumstantial evidence supports this set of events, according to the experts who testified.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 02:09 PM

"White Hispanics," "Creepy-Ass Crackers," "Teenage Mammies," and "Suspicious A--holes who always get away" -- that is the vernacular of the George Zimmerman trial.
George Zimmerman faces life in jail as a jury considers second-degree murder charges against him for killing 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. But thanks to the media he is already sentenced to life in the American public's mind as a racist.
NBC edited a tape of Zimmerman's call to police as he was following Martin to make him appear to be focused on Martin's race.
The New York Times has referred to him in unique racial terms as a "white Hispanic." The terminology was necessary to have the story fit into a well-worn news narrative throughout American history from the Scottsboro Boys to Emmett Till to Rodney King – the black victim of white racism. Hispanic people can be as racist as black or white people in a country with a deep history of racism. But, apparently for the Times, Zimmerman's whiteness was important. It fit their good versus evil tale of a white racist killing an innocent black man.
The media is clearly guilty of playing on the most primitive racial divisions in our society to fuel racial animosity and boost ratings.
In June, before the trial started, a CNN poll asked Americans if they believed the murder charges against Zimmerman were true or false. Without any courtroom testimony or evidence, but based on the racially charged media coverage, 62 percent of Americans said the charges were "probably true" or "definitely true."
My bet is that poll would have different results today. The trial has failed to prove Zimmerman acted with a "depraved mind" – as required for a second-degree murder conviction – or even with a racist mind. He certainly killed Martin. And the jury may decide he is guilty of second-degree murder or manslaughter. But what we heard in the courtroom fits with an FBI report that found race was not a factor in Martin's shooting death.
The strong public judgment of Zimmerman's guilt in the poll reflected a racially weighted media telling of the story. Photos of a bloodied Zimmerman after the incident, Zimmerman's claim of self-defense and the police decision not to charge Zimmerman all got a dismissive glance from the press and contributed to public assumptions about Zimmerman before the trial.
Liberal and conservative news TV and radio have played to the racial theme, too. The left, notably Rev. Al Sharpton, have made the case a crusade for racial justice. The right-wing media, especially talk radio, has responded by making Zimmerman a hero. In fact, Zimmerman's lawyer, Mark O'Mara, created an online site that attracted more than $145,000 from people who somehow made Zimmerman into their champion, possibly their great white hero.
The national focus on race in this case hit a high point when Rachel Jeantel, a 19-year-old student, testified that she spoke with Martin just before he was killed. Jeantel, Martin's friend, told the court that Martin complained that a "man was just watching him." And Martin described this man, Jeantel said, as a "creepy, white, excuse my language, cracker --- creepy-ass cracker."
Jeantel's testimony set off a stupid debate, requiring total ignorance of slavery and legal segregation, about the equivalence of blacks using "cracker" to describe whites, versus whites using the word "nigger" to describe blacks.
And Jeantel's physical appearance, as a dark, heavyset young woman, speaking with a Southern dialect as she gave the lawyers a lot of attitude with her curt answers, contributed to the racial view of the case.
She became the "teenage mammy," in the words of a sociology professor quoted in the New York Times, caricatured for "not being smart and using these racial slurs and not being the best witness."
And now the media, especially conservative talk radio outlets, are fixated on the possibility of race riots if Zimmerman is acquitted. Meanwhile, Twitter and other social media sites are full of threats from angry black people to kill Zimmerman if he is not held accountable by a jury for killing Martin.
Martin, the 17-year-old, is dead. But he has not escaped the racial slander attached to this case. Zimmerman's backers note that Martin had smoked marijuana – as if that is unusual among American teenagers. They seem delighted to find online messages in which he took on a rapper, street-thug persona and posed as a tough guy.
These are all caricatures of two real people caught in a tragedy.

Zimmerman should have listened to the 911 emergency dispatch operator who told him to stop following Martin.
Why did he have a gun if he was simply part of a neighborhood watch program?
He had no basis to suspect Martin of any crime. So why does he describe Martin as "suspicious" to police?
Why does he apparently lump Martin with people he describes as "these a--holes, they always get away."
Why didn't Martin just walk away from Zimmerman?
But Martin is dead. He can't speak for himself and get beyond the box of racial stereotypes the media built for him.
Zimmerman is alive. He has chosen not to speak at his trial, and although the prosecution played an interview he did with Fox News' Sean Hannity, it is still no match for skipping an ideal chance to tell his story when everyone is listening in the courtroom and on television.
Now, no matter what the verdict, he is going to carry his box of racial stereotypes around until his death. His identity will always be as a want-to-be cop who trailed a black kid who was not doing anything wrong, got in a fight with him, pulled out a gun and killed him.
Ultimately, it is the job of the media to give straight, objective coverage of any story.

Whatever the final verdict on Zimmerman, the media is clearly guilty of playing on the most primitive racial divisions in our society to fuel racial animosity and boost ratings.
There are no winners here.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:58 PM

SANFORD, Fla. (AP) — The six female jurors who will determine whether George Zimmerman committed second-degree murder when he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin last year could begin deliberating as early as Friday.

During almost three weeks of testimony, they have listened to 56 witnesses — 38 for the prosecution and 18 for the defense. A number of items have been the source of conflicting testimony, and jurors will have to sort out those contradictions once they get in the deliberation room.

Zimmerman is pleading not guilty to second-degree murder. He claims he fatally shot Martin in a scuffle at the townhome complex where Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch volunteer and where Martin was visiting his father's fiancee. Martin was black and Zimmerman identifies himself as Hispanic. Some civil rights activists argued that the delay in charging Zimmerman was influenced by Martin's race, and protests were held around the nation in the 44 days before Zimmerman was arrested.

Here are five questions jurors will have to sort out.

___

WHOSE SCREAMS ARE ON 911 CALLS?

Convincing jurors about whose voice is screaming for help on 911 calls that captured audio of the fight has become the primary goal of prosecutors and defense attorneys. Martin's mother, father and brother testified it's the Miami teen screaming for help on recordings of the 911 calls made by Zimmerman's neighbors. Zimmerman's mother, uncle, father and five friends told jurors it was the neighborhood watch volunteer's voice. One of Zimmerman's neighbors, Jayne Surdyka, says the screams were those of a boy.

___

WHO WAS ON TOP?

Zimmerman was wearing a red jacket and Martin had on a dark hoodie. Zimmerman's former neighbor Jonathan Good, perhaps the witness with the best view of what happened, says he saw a person in dark clothing straddling someone in red or white clothing and making downward movements with his fists in a mixed-martial arts maneuver known as "ground and pound." Neighbors Selma Mora and Surdyka say the person on top got up after the shooting. Zimmerman's attorneys claim Zimmerman had been on the bottom but got on top of Martin after he fired his gun.

___

HOW DID POSITION OF MARTIN'S ARMS CHANGE?

Zimmerman told investigators that Martin was on top of him, pounding his head into the pavement. After he fired his gun, he says, he got on top of Martin and spread his arms. However, a photo taken moments later by Zimmerman's neighbor shows Martin's arms under his body. Defense expert Vincent DiMaio testified Martin could have moved his arms in the 10 to 15 seconds he would have been conscious after being shot in the heart.

___

DID ZIMMERMAN ACT IN SELF-DEFENSE?

Zimmerman has argued all along he acted in self-defense, although he passed up chance for a self-defense "stand your ground" hearing in which a judge could have thrown out the case without it going to a jury if the judge was convinced there was enough evidence to support it. Zimmerman's community college instructor, Alexis Francisco Carter, told jurors that a person can claim self-defense if they have a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm. Jurors will get further instructions on self-defense from the judge.

___

DID ZIMMERMAN ACT WITH ILL WILL, HATRED, SPITE OR EVIL INTENT?

In order to get a second-degree murder conviction, prosecutors must show that Zimmerman acted with ill will, hatred, spite or evil intent. Prosecutors have argued that profanities Zimmerman uttered under his breath while he watched Martin walk through his neighborhood were evidence of ill will and hatred. But when asked by prosecutors and defense attorneys, no witness said Zimmerman acted with these traits.



http://news.yahoo.com/questions-jurors-must-consider-zimmerman-trial-230257024.html

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:23 PM

GUEST:

It hasn't been all that long (1979) since the KKK gunned down 5 peaceful civil rights demonstrators in Greensboro, NC... This happened on broad day light in front of hundreds of witnesses... No charges were ever brought...

Normal...

These KKk'ers were not all that different than what we are seeing from the Zimmerman worshipers here and elsewhere...

S.S.D.D....

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:16 PM

So, why bother with a trial at all, since the verdict has been determined by popular opinion? If he is not found guilty, he will be free for as long as it takes the government to come up with a "star chamber" trial to make sure he gets convicted.

And this is what passes for justice...


I hope all are just as happy the next time, when the precedent is used to railroad someone because of opinion as fanned by the press.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: pdq
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:04 PM

This is no time for comedy GUEST,anon (as if we do not know your real identity).

If Zim is not convicted, there will be race riots as stirred up by Eric Holder, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the sympathetic "news" people.

Only question is whether 1000 will die or 10,000.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:46 PM

For fuck sake. You people are for the most part Americans. I cannot believe in all honesty how any of you expected a fair trial when it comes to a dead Black kid.

Back in the early days a car driven by a White guy struck two Black men walking along an Alabama road. One man was thrown 140 feet and the other went through the car's windshield. Both barely survived. One was charged with leaving the scene of an accident and the other with breaking and entering.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:42 PM

Guess I spoke too soon; another bout of BullshitBruce chronic bloody postarrhoea. Apparently his duct tape suipply ran out after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:39 PM

Right, Don...

There doesn't seem to be any logic in the defense's "story"... It has more holes in it than swiss cheese...

Here's what we do know to be factual:

1. Zimmerman profiled Martin

2. Zimmerman called police

3. Zimmerman was told by the police to stay in his vehicle

4. Zimmerman disobeyed police and got out of his vehicle with a gun

5. Zimmerman followed Martin

6. Zimmerman shot and killed Martin

Those events are not in dispute...

Here's the defense's story about the events:

1. Martin attacked Zimmerman - Not likely... See Don T's comments on the size differential...

2. Martin got Zimmerman down on the ground - Not likely... Again, the size differential makes that claim very doubtful

3. Zimmerman was the one who screamed for "help" - Not likely... Someone yelled for "help", a shot was fired a second later and that voice was not heard again...

Here's what else we know:

1. Zimmerman lied in court when he was asked if he had money for his defense...

2. Zimmerman lied in court about not having an understanding of Florida's "stand your ground" and "self defense" laws...

Here's where the court (judge) has made serious mistakes:

1. No gag order thus allowing Zimmerman's attorney free shot at poisoning the jury pool...

2. Not permitting prosecution to present "expert witnesses" who were well versed in voice recognition technology...

3. Permitting a stream of Zimmerman's friends to testify that the voice on the tape was Zimmerman's...

That pretty much sums up this case...

Of course, the Zimmerman worshipers here will take the above facts and twist and twist on them because they are the facts... They will play head games with words and try to make chicken salad out of chicken shit... All the twisting in the world doesn't change the facts... It's just wishful thinking on their part...

And in the words of the late Walter Cronkite, "And that's the way it is..."

B~

(Note to bb: I'm sure that you have been trying to bait me but I don't read your posts because you do not have anything rational to say any more so write whatever you want... I'll skip right on by you...)

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:39 PM

""So, Don, you are saying that if Bobert was on top of me, beating the crap out of me, I would have no problem pushing him off before he could hurt me? I have a few pounds on him...""

No BB! I'm saying that you would be capable of rolling and throwing him off before he could begin to beat you to a pulp!

And so could Zimmerman if he hadn't been so intent on reaching for old Betsy!

In the UK, I wouldn't have to worry about getting a gun out of my pocket (since they are rightly illegal), so whoever was on top of me would be leaving PDQ, and probably singing soprano for a week, unless he outweighed me by a considerable margin.

I'm 72 and I reckon

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:46 AM

So, Don, you are saying that if Bobert was on top of me, beating the crap out of me, I would have no problem pushing him off before he could hurt me? I have a few pounds on him...


Bobert: "I mean, you give me 5-10 seconds to pound away and your face is going to look like raw hamburger.."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:39 AM

""IF I am being beaten, with no sign of an end to it, how close to death must I be before I can fire one shot in self defence?

Vision going?
Losing consciousness?
Breathing impaired?""

Of course, with the ground at your back, an assailant who weighs 156 lb, you could use your superior weight (204 lb, a three and a half stone advantage) to simply throw him off (simple enough, anybody who has changed a gearbox without removing the engine has done as much (130 - 150lb for a family sized car)).

No he's only a crooked black kid and he's given you the excuse you need.

Easier and more satisfying (maybe even heroic if he turns out to be the crook you estimate him to be) to shoot him.
_______________________________________________________________

Think about the converse: Based on your experience as a black youth in Florida, you see the guy who just challenged you reach for a pocket.

You believe he may be going for a gun, and you fear he will use it.

He isn't a cop! Is he a mugger?......What do you do.

1. Do nothing. Just wait for the bang?
2. Turn and run and wait for the bang?
3. Grab him and make sure he doesn't reach that pocket?

Doesn't Florida's own "Stand your Ground Law" cover you for that?

Well NO! NOT IF YOU ARE BLACK! That law is only for real people.

And, for Goofus' benefit, that isn't promoting race hatred! It is exposing the level of institutional racism in the Southern States and specifically in Sanford Florida, where it is apparently a Capital Offence for black people to do their shopping after dark.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:26 AM

btw, Bobert, there is no "guilty by reason of public opinion".

The verdict, if just, should be based on the evidence presented, and not the fear of what might happen if the "wrong" verdict is rendered. That is what you have complained about happening in the past to black defendants: Are you so sure you want to establish it as being valid here as well? That would justify all those past trials as being "just as valid".

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:20 AM

Only Bobert would consider jumping on someone and beating their head against the ground after being asked what he was doing to be "walking away.

It looks like it has been determined who threw the first punch- yet that is not enough for the Zimmerman haters here.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:16 AM

Martin tried...

He told his girlfriend that he was being followed...

"Followed???"

Doesn't that imply he was walking away???

Logic 001 (remedial, non-credit for boneheads)

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:06 AM

Walk away....just as Zimmerman OR Martin should have...walk away!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 10:48 AM

On Thursday, Twitchy reported that the social media site Twitter has exploded with death threats against George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer on trial for the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. Twitchy said that several also threatened to kill random white people if Zimmerman is not found guilty.

Most of the tweets captured by Twitchy were racist and profane in nature.

"I'll kill him," tweeted "Lindsey Franco."

"Watching the Zimmerman Trial. If he don't get life ill kill him myself (sic)," said the ironically named "Love." The tweet was deleted, but not before Twitchy captured it.

"Trayvon Martin need justice ! Gimme me tha pistol ill kill Zimmerman myself," declared another Twitter user.

One person offered to kill Zimmerman for $20, and several said they would murder random white people.

"If they don't kill Zimmerman Ima kill me a cracka (sic)," said one person, using a racial term for white people that Mediaite's Tommy Christopher said is a "proud nod to the region's history, and one's own ancestry."

"If George Zimmerman win I'm gonna kill a fat white boy dat look lik George Zimmerman I swear lol (sic)," tweeted "Creeplife."

Last year, Martin supporters flocked to Twitter, using the site to express their desire to see Zimmerman killed.

The volume of threats was so high that a member of the family wrote the Seminole County NAACP, saying blood would be on their hands if Zimmerman was harmed.

The unidentified family member said "the rest of the racists that have rushed" to judge Zimmerman will also have blood on their hands if he is hurt.

"You need to call off the dogs. Period. Publicly and swiftly," the letter added.

The New Black Panther Party put out a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman's head with a "Wanted Dead or Alive" poster and issued calls to murder white people.

"Kill these racist honkeys, these crackers, these pigs, these pink people, It has been long overdue!" the group said in a tweet that has since been deleted.

From the beginning, the Zimmerman case has brought out the worst in many people, including some in Congress who prejudged Zimmerman to be racist without knowing all the facts.

Civil rights activists like Jesse Jackson and MSNBC's Al Sharpton used the shooting to whip up racial strife in the country.

The FBI, however, said in a report that racism was not a factor in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 10:45 AM

On Tuesday, the popular clothing line Illuminati issued a tweet calling for the murder of George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer on trial for the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, Twitchy reported.

"The Only Justice for Trayvon Martin is to take the Life of George Zimmerman, (sic)" Illuminati tweeted.

The tweet angered a number of Twitter users, some of whom demanded Twitter ban the account.

"@twitter, please BAN @ThelIluminati ~ they are OPENLY CALLING FOR MURDER. If you don't, we will take legal action," one person tweeted.

As of this writing, the short message was retweeted over 770 times.

Twitchy said that many agreed with the tweet's sentiments, but others held a different view.

"It is a crime to call for the murder of an individual, right? @TheIlluminati is essentially inciting violence against #Zimmerman," one person tweeted.

The Illuminati account has well over a million followers, and appears to be the official account for a clothing brand that deals in conspiracy theories and offers t-shirts with slogans like "F**k the Police" and "United Snakes of America."

No mention of the tweet was seen at Illuminati's website or Facebook page, but the message caused quite a stir on Twitter.

This is not the first time Twitter users have called for Zimmerman to be murdered.

Recently, a number of people threatened to kill Zimmerman if he was acquitted, and others said they would murder random white people.

Celebrities like Roseanne Barr and Spike Lee have stirred the pot, as have civil rights figures like Jesse Jackson and MSNBC host Al Sharpton.

On Monday, Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman's attorney, told CNN's Piers Morgan that his client would never be safe if he is acquitted, due to the fact that many would never accept the evidence presented in the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 10:45 AM

Authorities are concerned that flash mobs angry at the verdict could use Twitter to organize similar unrest. As we reported last week, a plethora of individuals have promised to stage riots and looting if George Zimmerman is found not guilty. The latest round of controversy focused on popular clothing brand 'Illuminati' – which yesterday tweeted to over a million followers, "The Only Justice for Trayvon Martin is to take the Life of George Zimmerman."
The case already sparked looting by Trayvon Martin supporters last year when gangs of teenagers ransacked a Walgreens in north Miami in reaction to the fact that Zimmerman had not yet been arrested.
Detective Munib Ahmed outlined a plan to calm irate Trayvon supporters via Twitter during last night's meeting, remarking, "What we're concerned about is all the people starting rumors or instigating fights [through social media]. So we're trying to get ahead of the game [and] quell the fight before it starts."
Pastor Michael K. Anderson, of New Jerusalem First Baptist Church in Hollywood also called for Twitter to be used to quell disorder. "They'll hear a lot of [rumors] but they'll know the truth if they're following us [on social media]," he stated.
Numerous prominent voices, including former Chicago cop Paul Huebl have warned that the outcome of the trial will lead to riots that could surpass those seen in the aftermath of the Rodney King beating.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 10:37 AM

Bullshit on both counts, GfinS...

You are one of the most rabid Zimmerman defenders here... Any argument that might implicate your hero is met with reams and reams of rebuttal... You are no different from the other one here...

As for me not caring about Martin??? Like I said, "Bullshit on both counts"... If I, along with others here, didn't care about Martin we wouldn't be so bugged by the disrespect that the Florida cops, prosecutors and the judge are showing Martin...

Anymore mythology you'd like to share with us???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 10:23 AM

All that being said, this case is being used, to foment civil unrest..and those fomenting it don't really give a damn about Martin, his family, the merits of the case, evidence, even race...they are just looking for a hot button issue, and this is it(or one of them).
For me personally, I'm not into 'trying the case' in the Mudcat forum, or in the press, or at the coffee shop...what DOES concern me, and you as well, though you might not be aware of it....YET...is the deceitful, manipulation of some VERY evil people, opportunists of the worst kind, to suck people into the re-action, that they've been organizing, since the beginning!!..before they even knew the facts or the outcome...AS YOU HAVE SEEN!! Don't fall into it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Matter of fact, you should recognize and mark those who are doing this, promoting it, fanning it, and pay very little or no attention to them. They are shills, either unwitting ignorant, or consciously in on it. They don't give a damn about the race issue, except to exploit it, for some VERY twisted political end..that has NOTHING to do with correcting the ills of the past! ..or even having genuine compassion for anyone but their own political avarice!
Walk away...GET OFF THE TRACKS!!
How much more evidence do you need?????????..You, and a lot of other people are being conned!. Don't go for it!...Learn a new tune.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:46 AM

So, Bobert, that would indicate that Zimmerman was correct in being in fear for his life.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:41 AM

Testifying for the defense earlier in the day was Dennis Root, a safety and law enforcement instructor who is also a use of force consultant.

Root testified that he offered his services to Zimmerman's lawyers after hearing about the shooting on the news. Once hired, Root said he reviewed evidence in the case including 911 calls, witness statements and reports from police and the medical examiner.

Root also evaluated the physical capabilities of Trayvon and Zimmerman and said he found that Trayvon was "physically fit" while Zimmerman was "not a fighter." Zimmerman would have been "lacking," in a fight with the teen, Root said.

Evidence and photos of Zimmerman's injuries illustrate that there was a fistfight and support Zimmerman's story, Root told the jury.

"It's clear he was struck and his head made contact with the concrete," said Root, who also interviewed Zimmerman to form his opinion. Zimmerman would have found himself physically "lacking" in a confrontation with Trayvon, Root said.

Later, O'Mara asked Root whether Root believed Zimmerman had any other option than to shoot Trayvon.

"I don't believe he did," Root replied.

http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/2504917

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:36 AM

(CNN) -- The George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked "in a number of ways" by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.
Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.
"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."
When Sanford police arrived on the scene on February 26, 2012, after Zimmerman fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they conducted a "sound" investigation, and the evidence provided no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman at the scene, he said.
It had nothing to do with Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, he said; from an investigative standpoint, it was purely a matter of self-defense.

Zimmerman told police he killed Martin after the teen attacked him. While the evidence at the time corroborated that claim, the ex-chief said, Lee's lead investigator made a recommendation that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter.
It was a matter of protocol, Lee said. Arresting Zimmerman based on the evidence at hand would have been a violation of Zimmerman's Fourth Amendment rights, he said. Thus, the Sanford police presented a "capias request" to the state's attorney, asking that the prosecutor determine whether it was a "justifiable homicide," issue a warrant for arrest or present the case to a grand jury.
"The police department needed to do a job, and there was some influence -- outside influence and inside influence -- that forced a change in the course of the normal criminal justice process," Lee said. "With all the influence and the protests and petitions for an arrest, you still have to uphold you oath."
"That investigation was taken away from us. We weren't able to complete it," he said.
One example involved the 911 tapes, in which neighbors implored dispatchers to send police as a voice in the background screamed for help.
The Sanford police intended to release the tapes once the probe was over, Lee said, because you can't publicize evidence amid an investigation.
Instead, the mayor told him on March 16 the tapes had been released to Martin's family and the public. The family was asked to help identify voices, Lee said, but if police were in charge of the investigation, they wouldn't have presented evidence to a group.
"It should be done individually so there's no influence on the other people in the room," he said. "Then, there's no questions that can be brought up about how (an identification) was obtained or whether it was influenced."
I'm happy that at the end of the day I can walk away with my integrity.

Releasing the evidence to the public was problematic, as well, because it created the potential for someone to concoct a "story about what they observed when they really didn't observe it," he said.
Martin family attorney Jasmine Rand said that she doesn't believe that playing the tapes to a room full of people "makes any difference to the outcome of the case."
"We have to remember that that was played for the family in a private room because they were hearing the last moments of their son's life as he cried for help," Rand told CNN's Erin Burnett on Wednesday night. "And I think Sybrina Fulton (Martin's mother) got up and walked out of that room. She didn't sit in there and talk to everybody, because she had a visceral reaction when she heard her son yell for help and she couldn't help him because she knew he was dead."
Lee was placed on paid leave March 22, 2012, after the Sanford City Commission expressed a lack of confidence in him. The same commission rejected his resignation in a 3-2 vote a month later, with dissenting commissioners questioning the fairness of Lee's losing his job.
Two months later, Lee was sacked. City Manager Norton Bonaparte said in a news release, "The police chief needs to have the trust and respect of the elected officials and the confidence of the entire community."
Lee believes lack of confidence did play a role in his dismissal, he told CNN, but he also believes Bonaparte faced political pressure and terminated him "without cause," which was permitted under his employment contract.
"I upheld my oath," Lee said. "I'm happy that at the end of the day I can walk away with my integrity."
Rand told CNN that Lee lost his job because he "failed to conduct a fair and impartial investigation."
"I personally thank God that he doesn't have the ability to fulfill his vision to uphold an arcane practice that has no place in our legal system," Rand said.

Asked whether he would do things differently given the opportunity, Lee, a 30-year veteran of law enforcement, said there always are things he could change in hindsight, but he stands by the investigation.
At every turn in the 40-minute interview with CNN's Howell, Lee doggedly defended his investigators, saying race never played a role in any decision and that his officers "conducted an unbiased review."
Investigators knew letting Zimmerman walk free for 46 days was an unpopular decision -- and they took abuse for it -- "but they performed professionally. That's the mark of a strong police department."
Lee took issue with the media casting his department as apathetic or lackadaisical in the case.
"A lot of the information that was given out as fact was misinformation," he said. "It was reported in some media that we didn't conduct an investigation for two weeks, but yet in that same media they would show a photograph of a crime scene with crime scene tape, with patrol cars and blue lights and investigators on the scene."
Lee shrugged off the notion that he was hired to clean up racism and other problems in the department. His goal upon becoming chief was to improve professionalism and trust, and he set several goals, all of which were met during his 10-month tenure, he said.
One of his greatest regrets, he said, is that the Zimmerman investigation ultimately shattered his childhood dream to be police chief of the community where he was raised.
"It's a dream of a vision that is going to be unrealized," he said. "I'm at peace with it on most days. I'm a man of faith. But it stings."


http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/10/justice/sanford-bill-lee-exclusive/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:34 AM

Let me tell ya'll something... I saw Zimmerman's attorney acting out what he would like the jury to believe... If Martin had been in that position then Zimmerman's injuries would be much worse... I mean, you give me 5-10 seconds to pound away and your face is going to look like raw hamburger... The injuries seen in the pictures of both the back of the head and the face are not consistent with reality...

But don't believe me... Take your ignorant selves down to any MMA dojo and ask the sensei...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:28 AM

From Richard's link.

In assessing the reasonableness of the force used, prosecutors should ask two questions:

was the use of force necessary in the circumstances, i.e. Was there a need for any force at all? and
was the force used reasonable in the circumstances?
The courts have indicated that both questions are to answered on the basis of the facts as the accused honestly believed them to be (R v Williams (G) 78 Cr App R 276), (R. v Oatbridge, 94 Cr App R 367).

To that extent it is a subjective test. There is, however, an objective element to the test. The jury must then go on to ask themselves whether, on the basis of the facts as the accused believed them to be, a reasonable person would regard the force used as reasonable or excessive.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:25 AM

Yeah, Beardy, I expect you used up the last supply to stem the postarrhoea as suggested. Your customary horseshit has been conspicuously absent for almost 24 hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:24 AM

OK, I am not disagreeing Greg.

IF I am being beaten, with no sign of an end to it, how close to death must I be before I can fire one shot in self defence?

Vision going?
Losing consciousness?
Breathing impaired?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:14 AM

We know, Greggie boy. And I am still looking for more duct tape for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 08:58 AM

how close to death must I be

Foolish question. When, exactly, was Zimmerman within a thousand yards of being "close to death", Keith?

I've rec'd worse injuries from playing with an aggressive hamster.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 08:53 AM

The UK's CPS guidelines.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/self_defence/#Reasonable_Force


Since the availability of a gun (as in Zimmerman's case) would have been unlawful in the UK in and of itself, I do not see that Zimmerman's use of the gun could have been reasonable.

Comparably the UK coroner has found this shooting to be an unlawful death -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23193571

We await hearing whether the police marksman involved is to be prosecuted. The deceased was in a car with at least three guns, was a career criminal, but the marksman's evidence that he thought the deceased was trying to shoot at the marksman and had failed to go down after being shot 6 time, when the marksman delivered a classic "double tap" headshot was rejected by the coroner. Because it was an inquest not a prosecution it has come out that the marksman has killed twice before - which may make a fair trial by UK standards hard to achieve.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Saniy
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 08:50 AM

Don(Wyziwyg)T: "Goofus just doesn't get it.
HE is the one making this political, when in fact it is PURELY a race issue."

Oh???Is that a fact????.....Take your pick!.. Read well!!!


Now compare that to this.....and BOTH are funded by our tax dollars!

Like I Said, Brainy:

I suppose to you, people instigating hate, makes more sense, huh?

Or political jerk-offs, politicizing a stupid act, makes sense to you?..well, OK.

Ya' mind if others don't subscribe to your dark 'reality'?..or do you HAVE to get a power geez, in getting people to hate??

To me...that is a blithering idiot...you might not see it that way..but really, so what?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 08:10 AM

Yes. He declined medical attention and walked.

IF I am being beaten, with no sign of an end to it, how close to death must I be before I can fire one shot in self defence?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: bobad
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 07:39 AM

"IF I am being beaten, with no sign of an end to it..."

"A witness in the George Zimmerman trial described his wounds as "insignificant" and "non–life threatening." Dr. Valerie Rao, a medical examiner, made the determination after reviewing video and photographs of Zimmerman after his deadly confrontation with Trayvon Martin.