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New folk song

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GUEST,Tatts 23 Oct 22 - 10:17 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Oct 22 - 11:00 AM
MaJoC the Filk 23 Oct 22 - 11:38 AM
Jeri 23 Oct 22 - 11:42 AM
MaJoC the Filk 23 Oct 22 - 11:47 AM
Bill D 23 Oct 22 - 11:54 AM
MaJoC the Filk 23 Oct 22 - 11:55 AM
Bonzo3legs 23 Oct 22 - 01:41 PM
The Sandman 23 Oct 22 - 01:57 PM
Bonzo3legs 23 Oct 22 - 02:00 PM
The Sandman 23 Oct 22 - 02:18 PM
Georgiansilver 23 Oct 22 - 02:30 PM
gillymor 23 Oct 22 - 02:30 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 23 Oct 22 - 02:49 PM
Bonzo3legs 23 Oct 22 - 03:24 PM
The Sandman 23 Oct 22 - 03:40 PM
gillymor 23 Oct 22 - 03:51 PM
The Sandman 23 Oct 22 - 04:06 PM
gillymor 23 Oct 22 - 04:14 PM
GUEST 23 Oct 22 - 04:28 PM
Bonzo3legs 23 Oct 22 - 04:31 PM
gillymor 23 Oct 22 - 04:36 PM
The Sandman 23 Oct 22 - 04:40 PM
The Sandman 23 Oct 22 - 04:54 PM
The Sandman 23 Oct 22 - 05:10 PM
Stilly River Sage 23 Oct 22 - 05:25 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 23 Oct 22 - 05:26 PM
The Sandman 23 Oct 22 - 09:18 PM
The Sandman 23 Oct 22 - 09:50 PM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 24 Oct 22 - 07:36 AM
Bonzo3legs 24 Oct 22 - 08:43 AM
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Subject: New folk song
From: GUEST,Tatts
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 10:17 AM

What is the best new folk songs written in the last 20 years? I love all the traditional songs and wonder if new material cannot match it, now there are no workers sitting in pubs writing about their lives and environment.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 11:00 AM

If they were written in the last 20 years they aren't "Folk songs."


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 11:38 AM

.... yet.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 11:42 AM

This is a sort of Pavlov's dogs thing...
How about the song most likely to live on as a folk song. (Everything we consider a "folk song" was new once".

In other words, God no, not this AGAIN.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 11:47 AM

(*ahem*) Apologies for shooting off my keyboard from the hip. Would "folk-adjacent" be less confrontational? before we descend into the traditional and everlasting What Is Folk discussion.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 11:54 AM

There's 'traditional' and 'in the tradition'...
The best 'songs that sound traditional' that I know are by Craig Johnson

https://craigjohnson3.bandcamp.com/album/away-down-the-road


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 11:55 AM

I cede to Jeri, and suggest "folk song in waiting" as a generic term for new stuff in the folk style.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 01:41 PM

"If they were written in the last 20 years they aren't "Folk songs."

Absolute rubbish, Steve Knightly of Show of Hands regularly writes folk songs and so does Richard Thompson.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 01:57 PM

Bonzo has switched the lights off knocked three times and has had words with Cecil Sharp. Bonzo has also contacted Ewan MacColl and Pete Seeger, and so considers himself an authority on the matter


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 02:00 PM

Correct


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 02:18 PM

Have you also spoken to AlanLomax


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 02:30 PM

I think someone is confused between 'traditional folk music' and folk music in general. I wrote a couple of songs which were entered into e 'Write a Lincolnshire Folk Song competition', organised by the BBC, in recent years..... One came second in 2005..... Folk songs are still being written but may not become known as traditional for many years.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 02:30 PM

They might be older than 20 years but Richard Thompson's "Beeswing" and his "1952 Vincent Black Lightning" might be sung for a good long while. Same for Leon Rosselson's "World Turned Upside Down".


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 02:49 PM

As posted years ago, folk music may usefully be divided into two main categories – Traditional (unknown composer), & Composer (known - either deceased or contemporary, which may appear as self-penned or covers).

Although I don't necessarily agree with their arguments, The Young'uns are very good at composing folk songs, in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 03:24 PM

Take no notice of Sandman.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 03:40 PM

gilly mor , a song may be a good song that does not necessarily mean it is a folk song even if bonzo says it is, of coures beeswing uses the tune of a hornpipe composed by james hill


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 03:51 PM

You mean someone put lyrics to an old tune? Jeepers, that's never been done before. :')


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 04:06 PM

we both know that it has been done before, but it was a composed tune, not a trad tune, it was a composition by james hill, so in reality it is words Thompson, tune james hill,
however my important point is that a song may be a good song but that does not make it a folk song, for example
Dedicated Follwer of Fashion is a composition by Ray Davies, imo it is a well written song, it is generally classifed as a popular song it is not generally considered a folk song


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 04:14 PM

Don't waste bandwidth on me. I don't care how old a song is, where it comes from, wether it was composed or just showed up. Either I like or I don't and that's all that matters to me. Now, I'm out of the futile "what is a folk song" aspect of this discussion.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 04:28 PM

Don't listen to Sandman...Yes, there is a tune called Beeswing written by James Hill...But IT IS NOT the tune used by Richard Thompson for his song!! Unless I am crazy and know nothing about music...which is what Sandman will probably suggest.

See The Session for the James Hill tune......https://thesession.org/tunes/945

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 04:31 PM

"Now, I'm out of the futile "what is a folk song" aspect of this discussion."

So am I.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 04:36 PM

Thanks for that link, Tim.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 04:40 PM

now there are no workers sitting in pubs writing about their lives and environment. quote OP
wrong, i have heard people in ireland who are writing songs about their lives and environment and people are doing it in the uk too
Tim, it is the same tune but in a different tempo.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 04:54 PM

one songwriter that writes about his environment is Jez Lowe, and he has written some very good songs.
here is another good song that was written recently and poularised by christy moore

   

On Morecambe Bay

Kevin Littlewood



Out beyond the street lamps where the calliopes roar

Past the rack and samphire, beyond the shore

I’ve seen them walking through the tide as rain cuts through the spray

Chinese cockle-pickers on the sands of Morecambe Bay



I stood behind them in the corner shop and in the market too

I should have spoken to them, told them everything I knew

Like our mothers told us as we went out to play

Never try and race the tide on the sands of Morecambe Bay



For the tide is The Devil, it will run you out of breath

Race you to the seashore, chase you to your death

The tide is the very Devil and the Devil has its day

On the lonely cockle banks of Morecambe Bay



Saw them sending money orders home, all their hard earned pay

Tales of crossing borders on the road to Morecambe Bay

Sleeping in crowded rooms on cold hard floors

Such dreamless life is not worth dying for



I see them in the distance, laid out in the morning light

23 migrant workers were drowned last night

Their final phonecalls halfway round the world crossed

As between the river estuaries they raced the tide and lost



For the tide is The Devil, it will run you our of breath

Race you to the seashore, chase you to your death

The tides is the very Devil and The Devil has its day

On the lonely cockle banks of Morecambe Bay



In Fujian and Zeeland they mourn their next of kin

Gang masters with snake tattoos call money loans back in

Broked hearted parents watch their children stow away

To the lonely cockle banks of Morecambe Bay



The tide is the very Devil and The Devil has its day

On the lonely cockle banks of Morecambe Bay


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 05:10 PM

on Morecambe Bay, I would describe as a well written song in a folk style, unlike Bonzo,
i do not lay down the law and state quote "Steve Knightly of Show of Hands regularly writes folk songs and so does Richard Thompson." the only point i made is that Dedicated Follower of Fashion is a well written song but it is generally classified as popular music, that is a statement of fact
"Dedicated Follower of Fashion" is a 1966 song by British band the Kinks. It lampoons the contemporary British fashion scene and mod culture in general. Originally released as a single, it has been included on many of the band's later albums.

Musically, it and "A Well Respected Man" marked the beginning of an expansion in the Kinks' inspirations, drawing as much from British music hall traditions as from American rhythm and blue wiki
Ray Davies claimed that the song was inspired by a fight he had with a fashion designer at a party:

    I got pissed off with [a fashion designer at a party] always going on about fashion. I was just saying you don't have to be anything; you decide what you want to be and you just walk down the street and if you're good the world will change as you walk past. I just wanted it to be the individual who created his own fashion. ... [It was] a terrible brawl. I kicked him, and I kicked his girlfriend up the arse.

Davies claims he wrote the song in one sitting, typing the lyrics out on a typewriter, with no later revision. It was performed with Davies mostly accompanying himself on acoustic guitar, with the rest of the band joining in on the "It will make or break him so he's got to buy the best 'cause..." and echoing the "Oh yes he is" lines in the refrain. The song contains two lines from the 1905 English adventure novel The Scarlet Pimpernel; "they seek him here, they seek him there".


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 05:25 PM

First time someone wants to enforce their copyright the "folk song" designation goes out the window. It has an author. It may be, like Bill said, in the style of, but it has an author.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 05:26 PM

I've enjoyed a couple of Jez Lowe gigs - his songs often incorporating well-known sayings; and I agree that those are good street-smart lyrics by Kevin Littlewood.


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 09:18 PM

Bonzo has stated, Steve Knightly of Show of Hands regularly writes folk songs and so does Richard Thompson.
By contrast i am more concerned with the ops comment, "now there are no workers sitting in pubs writing about their lives and environment." I have given examples of songs written by working people about their lives and environment.
good songs about workers lives and entertainment can also be written by people who are just observers, an example is Harry Chapins Shortest Story
Lyrics
I am born today
The Sun burns a promise
In my eye
Mama strikes me
And I draw a breath and cry
Above me a cloud
Slowly tumbles through the sky
I am glad, to be alive
It is my seventh day
I taste the hunger
And I cry
My Brother and sister
Cling to Mama's side
She squeezes her breast
But it has nothing to provide
Someone weeps, I fall asleep
It is twenty days today
Mama does not hold me
Anymore
I open my mouth
But I am to weak to cry
Above me a bird slowly crawls across the sky
Why is there nothing
Now to do but die?


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 09:50 PM

here is a quote from the Guardian about Leon Rosselson an acclaimed songwriter writing in a style that ios categorised as Folk
"Rosselson is most often categorised as a folk singer, but his cutting sense of humour and refusal to simply play to a formula mean he does not always fit in here, either. His songs are far closer to pieces of theatre or self-contained radio plays than simple verse-chorus-verse, boy meets girl or maidservant meets lord of the manor.

"They don't know where to put me because there is not a category like chanson over here," he says. "If you go to a record shop you will find me in the folk section, which is OK as I have to be somewhere. But I think my music goes beyond that." It is clear that Rosselson sits closest to chanson, but, despite some false dawns, the genre has never taken off in England, at least not in our native tongue. Brel tributes can always draw a crowd, but what could be regarded as English chanson remains almost an awkward note in the margins of English music.

"I think the reason for the lack of an English chanson is perhaps because we share a language with America," says Rosselson. "While there was an English music-hall tradition, it is American commercial music that has dominated the musical life of this country. end of quote
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/jun/05/folk


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 24 Oct 22 - 07:36 AM

I `ad that Tatts in my cab the other day. I recognised `im `cos `e `ad one of those pronoun badges on `is lapel and it said " I`m Tatts and i`m a they".
I said, " Morning Tatts. Are you the Tatts that is asking about new folk songs on that Mudcat?"
`e said, "That`s me Jim. One and the same. `ere, you and your lot `ave been at it for ages doing trad. `ave you used any new ones?"
I said, " Blimey, I`ve written loads of `em. I`ll tell you about one in particular called " Men of Kent" written by my mate Ken, many moons ago when we was in "Four Square Circle".
`e said, "Yeah, I remember you on "Country Meets Folk""
I said , "Well, we was doing "The Crypt" in London and Ken, being a modest bloke introduced the song but said `e `ad no idea about its origin rather than say `e wrote it. Well after we `ad done the night someone came up to us and told us it was 200 years old!!


Whaddam I Like???


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Subject: RE: New folk song
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Oct 22 - 08:43 AM

I can tell that you lot have nothing to do!!!!!


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