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What is Folk? IN SONG.

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The Shambles 02 May 00 - 06:05 AM
McGrath of Harlow 02 May 00 - 02:07 PM
Jeri 02 May 00 - 07:37 PM
Art Thieme 02 May 00 - 08:37 PM
Art Thieme 03 May 00 - 11:04 AM
McGrath of Harlow 03 May 00 - 07:52 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 May 00 - 01:31 PM
Alice 04 May 00 - 01:50 PM
Art Thieme 05 May 00 - 01:17 AM
McGrath of Harlow 08 May 00 - 06:05 PM
Clinton Hammond2 08 May 00 - 08:35 PM
The Shambles 09 May 00 - 03:27 PM
The Shambles 24 Jul 00 - 06:23 PM
The Shambles 07 Nov 00 - 10:31 AM
Bert 07 Nov 00 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,Alex H. 07 Nov 00 - 12:00 PM
The Shambles 16 Dec 01 - 04:30 PM
Amos 16 Dec 01 - 04:37 PM
The Shambles 16 Dec 01 - 05:04 PM
The Shambles 17 Jan 04 - 04:33 AM
An Buachaill Caol Dubh 31 Jul 06 - 02:01 PM
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Subject: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 May 00 - 06:05 AM

What Is Folk? (For Jeri, whose idea this thread was).

What is folk?
This'll drop me in it
'I'll follow on
With me old cock linnet'
For I ain't never, heard
A horse begin it
It must be folk
'Cos' it's folk what sing it


People ponder on the meaning of life
And this generates some heat
But of all the world' mysteries
This one's really got us beat
Comets fall and mountains crumble
But this one will go one
Watch us trip and watch us stumble
Why not put it in a song?

What is folk?
This'll drop me in it
I'll follow on
With 'me old cock linnet'
For I ain't never, heard
A horse begin it
It must be folk
'Cos' it's folk what sing it


Some people think the problem of folk
Was one of survival
Did not the problem really begin
With the arrival of the revival?
When you're not dead, or even ill
Is the prospect not alarming?
When they tie you down and write you up
For the process of embalming?

What is folk?
This'll drop me in it
I'll follow on
With 'me old cock linnet'
For I ain't never, heard
A horse begin it
It must be folk
'Cos' it's folk what sing it

Roger Gall 2000


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 May 00 - 02:07 PM

Well there's my tradition,
and there's your tradition,
and there's our tradition
and there's their tradition,
and each tradition has its own rendition
and I don't exclude the singing moke.

For my tradition
isn't your tradition,
and their tradition
isn't our tradition,
and the big decision that has caused such fission
is to say what is or isn't folk.

For when they say it isn't
then I say it is, and
surely if it isn't than it's my position
that they'd just imprison the emerging vision
- and I say, that goes beyond a joke.
So don't mend it, if it isn't broke.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: Jeri
Date: 02 May 00 - 07:37 PM

My idea? How dare I?

Oh well - here's a start on mine. (Yes, I have a tune, but haven't put it into notation yet.) No opinions unless they rhyme!

SOMEBODY HAD TO WRITE THE SONGS

If you never sing a song nothing will get passed along
We'll only have the same old stuff we've sung since time begun
Good thing the "please don't sing it" crowd weren't there then, or weren't real loud
Cause all the lyrics we would have would be "diddle diddle dum"

Chorus:
But somebody had to write the songs and somebody had to pass 'em on
So find the ones you like, and make them all your own
And someone will hear it anew, and learn the melody from you
And in this way tradition carries on

If a song is newly written, it may not worth learnin'
There's an awful lot of awful stuff, too personal and long
But all you really have to do is pick the ones that call to you
And let the test of time weed out the weak ones from the strong

A copyrighted song ain't folk, cause the folks won't ever own it
And just because they sing it, it isn't quite the same
It may have a tune that makes you sigh, or words that bring a tear to eye
But it's not the people's property if you know the owner's name.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 May 00 - 08:37 PM

CLEAR ENTRIES


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: Art Thieme
Date: 03 May 00 - 11:04 AM

I missed the point of the thread. No offense meant. Please excuse.

Art


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 00 - 07:52 PM

"But it's not the people's property if you know the owner's name."

Just because you made it
doesn't mean you own it.
Once a song has come to life,
it's everybody's song.
Just be glad you did your thing,
and made a song that people sing,
now that song is on the wing,
it's everybody's song.

It's as true for a song
as it is for a child,
there's a time to let go,
when it's time for running wild.
You can't hold it down,
you've done the best you could -
there's a song in the air,
and there's singing in the wood.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 00 - 01:31 PM

Two threads "in Song" set me off thinking - one's about guns, one's about singing. The gun one gets long, the song one is sinking. Something is wrong, I can't help thinking.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: Alice
Date: 04 May 00 - 01:50 PM

Here's a bit from me

WHY ARE THEY SINGING

Are they singing for more freedom
Are they singing for more guns
Are they singing for their children
Or just marching with their drums.
Are they writing words for lovers
To be whispered in the night
Are they writing songs for money
Or to shed a little light.

If you hold your child and sing
If you care enough to bring
A little more song to the world
Then your banner is unfurled
You've become one of the throng
Who pass the songs along
You've joined the souls who love
Plain old music.

Alice Flynn


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 May 00 - 01:17 AM

"As long as sentimental supersalesmen make it big and tell it wrong,
I will make it small and tell it right."

--------Bob Franke


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 May 00 - 06:05 PM

Bright is the ring of words
when the right man rings them
Fair the fall of songs
when the singer sings them
Still they are carolled and said -
on wings they are carried -
After the singer is dead
and the maker buried.


Robert Louis Stevenson (from Songs of Travel)


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 08 May 00 - 08:35 PM

BE WARNED! THIS IS A WEE BIT RUDE!!!

One night at the pub I played this new song
The people all liked it they all sang along
They said, "yer new song a folk song will be
When you've died and been buried a year two or three
Chorus
So f@ck off and die! F@ck off and die
It won't be a folk song till ya f@ck off and die
So f@ck off and die! F@ck off and die
It won't be a folk song till you f@ck off and die

I heard an 'occasional' Mudcatter sing this verse at the end of a great political song he does in a pub here in Windsor, but I won't say who he is for fear of ruining his already stirling reputation (HA!)

But it's all in fun eh!

{~`


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 May 00 - 03:27 PM

Well, I f@cked off and died
Well, no, I just lied
It was into a coma, I fell
Yes, they kept me alive
Somehow, I survived
A long time, a living shell

All this, I learned
And to the pub, I returned
Heard them, sing my composition
When I claimed my fame
I heard them exclaim
"We all know that it's, from the tradition"


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Jul 00 - 06:23 PM

Plenty of room for some more songs.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 10:31 AM

Still plenty of room for more.......


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: Bert
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 11:18 AM

Clinton, would that have been Elliot Kenin? If twere, I think he's quite proud of that song.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: GUEST,Alex H.
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 12:00 PM

Couldn't resist. Thought seriously of using posting this anonymously.

You might get a meal, you might get a hand, you might get a pig in a poke You might get collected, you might be revered but you won't get a buck cause it's folk

It comes from your ma, it comes from the net it comes from an old blind bloke wherever you start, it must come from the heart and you won't get a buck cause it's folk

the media lords who infest our land they think your music is a joke but you must share it, and you con't care if you won't get a buck cause it's folk


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Dec 01 - 04:30 PM

It's the revival.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 01 - 04:37 PM

Yes...but what IS folk music, really?

LOL!!!

A.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Dec 01 - 05:04 PM

Three Somerset singers
May please the ladies
Dr Howells thinks
They're straight from Hades

What is folk?
We can't tell
Ask our Minister
He knows it's hell.


Folk can't be culture
At home or overseas
Now there's a doctor in the house?

With foot in the mouth disease

What is folk?
We can't tell
Ask our Minister
He knows its hell.



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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 04:33 AM

Start to write poems
And they leave it up to you
But claim to be a poet
Then the experts have a view

Start to sing and it's OK
You can even write a song
But claim to be a writer
And the critics come along

But this one is the worst of all
And really requires a fighter
Sing and write but never make a claim
To be a singer/songwriter

The pedants will always try
And really it's no joke
To pigeon-hole and analyse
Never claim to be 'folk'

For folk songs were never written
Just collected from the trees
Certainly never came - from the pen
Of navel-gazers - like these.

They only create the music
Do just as they please
They are just musicians
Who mess-up the categories

Those who know the meter
And where it was collected
Are the one who know it all
And should be better respected.

They may not have created much
But are heaven-sent
To tell everyone what they should do
And be wise – after the event…………


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Subject: RE: What is Folk? IN SONG.
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:01 PM

Okay, it's been a wee while, but for a number of reasons I find the above, though humorous, unduly hard on those who know where a song was "collected" (which smells a little of embalming, if "collected" implies some intent to "preserve", as distinct from "learning it in order to sing it yourself"). Many an Irish traditional singer will precede a rendition (or song or indeed instrumental piece) with something like, "I got it from ******** of ********, who told me he had the words from ********." Sometimes they'll even say the name of the air to which words are set, especially if it's a set of words they wrote themselves. Some of the most useful theoretical observations on song-making can come from the makers of "Traditional" or "Folk" song, and to pretend that the only people who analyse and theorize are pedants and collectors is in itself a way of confining "FolkSong" to a niche, one inhabited by simple folk who don't know what they're doing, who sing because they have to, who reduce discussions to "folks sing, horses don't!" etc etc etc.


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