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Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?

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Goose Gander 01 Mar 10 - 03:01 PM
TheSnail 01 Mar 10 - 03:09 PM
michaelr 01 Mar 10 - 03:22 PM
Waddon Pete 01 Mar 10 - 03:22 PM
Paul Reade 01 Mar 10 - 03:27 PM
MGM·Lion 01 Mar 10 - 03:33 PM
Goose Gander 01 Mar 10 - 03:43 PM
MGM·Lion 01 Mar 10 - 03:50 PM
GUEST,The Folk E 01 Mar 10 - 03:52 PM
Uncle_DaveO 01 Mar 10 - 03:53 PM
Uncle_DaveO 01 Mar 10 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,The Folk E 01 Mar 10 - 04:09 PM
MGM·Lion 01 Mar 10 - 04:11 PM
Joe Offer 01 Mar 10 - 04:12 PM
Amos 01 Mar 10 - 04:16 PM
EnglishFolkfan 01 Mar 10 - 05:41 PM
Bert 01 Mar 10 - 06:14 PM
Spleen Cringe 01 Mar 10 - 06:25 PM
Bert 01 Mar 10 - 06:27 PM
The Sandman 01 Mar 10 - 07:02 PM
Herga Kitty 01 Mar 10 - 07:11 PM
theleveller 02 Mar 10 - 03:52 AM
Richard Bridge 02 Mar 10 - 04:05 AM
Richard Bridge 02 Mar 10 - 04:12 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 02 Mar 10 - 04:49 AM
Smedley 02 Mar 10 - 05:03 AM
glueman 02 Mar 10 - 06:01 AM
John P 02 Mar 10 - 10:00 AM
MGM·Lion 02 Mar 10 - 11:14 AM
Richard Bridge 02 Mar 10 - 11:29 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 02 Mar 10 - 12:11 PM
MGM·Lion 02 Mar 10 - 12:35 PM
GUEST 02 Mar 10 - 12:57 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 02 Mar 10 - 01:03 PM
MGM·Lion 02 Mar 10 - 01:04 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 02 Mar 10 - 01:05 PM
MGM·Lion 02 Mar 10 - 01:08 PM
Spleen Cringe 02 Mar 10 - 01:09 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 02 Mar 10 - 01:21 PM
Uke 02 Mar 10 - 01:37 PM
TheSnail 02 Mar 10 - 01:52 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 02 Mar 10 - 02:38 PM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 10 - 06:29 AM
MikeL2 03 Mar 10 - 10:16 AM
melodeonboy 03 Mar 10 - 10:27 AM
Joe_F 03 Mar 10 - 08:06 PM
mattkeen 04 Mar 10 - 04:31 AM
Bert 04 Mar 10 - 01:47 PM
glueman 04 Mar 10 - 02:17 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 04 Mar 10 - 03:00 PM
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Subject: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:01 PM

Have we reached the stage yet where there is nothing left to talk about regarding 'what is traditional?'/'what is folk?'/'is folk dead?'/'is folk alive'?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: TheSnail
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:09 PM

Dream on.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: michaelr
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:22 PM

GHOD I HOPE SO!!!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:22 PM

...if only......


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Paul Reade
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:27 PM

I thought the arguments had finished long ago ... until I discovered Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:33 PM

P E R I S H    T H E   T H O U G H T   ······

why, whatever would we find to talk about ?????


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:43 PM

Well, we could go back to talking about song lyrics and tunes, and instruments and tech, and all that.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:50 PM

Ah Goosie, but only if they are traditional songs, lyrics, tunes ...


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: GUEST,The Folk E
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:52 PM

Folk music is dead. It's not even folk music any more, it's just singer/songwriter music.

Hardly what I remember what used to be called folk music.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:53 PM

There hasn't been anything further to say on that subject for years and years. That doesn't stop threads from being started, though.


Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:54 PM

Actually, we might as well just shoot that poor old horse who doesn't sing right here; maybe it will kill the thread too!

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: GUEST,The Folk E
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 04:09 PM

It's not that the poor old horse doesn't sing.

It's just hardly anyone listens any more.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 04:11 PM

Neigh Neigh Neigh


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 04:12 PM

They just aren't writing folk songs like they used to...


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 04:16 PM

The past is dead. The only ones who can bring it back to life are the Time Travellers, the Chrono-Gypsies. Those are the folks you see padding up and down the paths at the Getaway every year. They can whisk you back to 1880 in the flip of an A-minor. Sixteen hundred is a bit trickier, but there are a few who can do it with apparent ease. The REAL lost folk music is for dates before 1100. Especially in remote nations like, for example, Lilliput.


A


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished
From: EnglishFolkfan
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 05:41 PM

Plenty of fossilised Folk still out there.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Bert
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 06:14 PM

Lilliput? Isn't that where Dachshunds come from?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 06:25 PM

It is possible to discuss this sort of thing and still play nicely, though. A nice example over the road: A potentially lethal outbreak of All Around My Hat


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Bert
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 06:27 PM

Yup, they're finished. So is traditional song, it is dead, dead, dead, 'cos nothing written since 1956 can ever be traditional.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 07:02 PM

1954,not 1956.two minutes makes a lot of difference as the actress said to the bishop.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 07:11 PM

Amos - Lilliput is a suburb of Poole, in Dorset. Robert Louis Stevenson used to live in neighbouring Bournemouth.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 03:52 AM

I think that discussions of this sort have now gone through the folk process and so have become a tradition.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 04:05 AM

No: there is a thread currently running on the difference between country and folk.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 04:12 AM

Spleen, I have just read that crap "over the road" and it makes me want to present most of them with a traditional thermonuclear device.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 04:49 AM

I'm going to stop refering to the old songs I'm interested in as 'traditional folk' because the term seems to cause too much conflict amongst people and it seems to distress singer songwriters in particular - so I'm going to follow D of E's example and simply call them "Samantha" from now on.

If everyone is smart and follows suit, then there will never be any more need for threads debating 'what is folk'.
Sorted!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Smedley
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 05:03 AM

Those of you who have operated in this cultural zone for some time will have heard these arguments time & again, but people more recently arrived might still need or wish to explore them.

So those of you who want such arguments to go away are risking alienating newcomers and insisting that everything has already been said. There is a definite danger in insisting the old timers know it all.

Which is one of the reasons some people steer clear of folk music.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: glueman
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 06:01 AM

It would be in keeping with the subject if they have finished. Old blokes decide everything has been said on the subject and declare their opinion the only one to hold and the subject closed before announcing anyone who who thinks differently is an idiot!!!!!!!! (with multiple exclamation marks, personal digs and cut and paste diatribes)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: John P
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 10:00 AM

There's plenty to talk about. Arguments are stupid, though.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 11:14 AM

·····················Arguments are stupid, though. ····················

NO THEY ARE NOT!!!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 11:29 AM

Can I call them "Norman"? It's my favourite name. I even like girls if they are called "Norman"


(I know at least one person who will identify the reference)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 12:11 PM

"Can I call them "Norman"? It's my favourite name."

Yes indeed RB! This is going to revolutionise threads on Mudcat, no more arguments about 'folk' no more debate about what 'traditional' means, no more grumpy tensions between traditionalists and folkie singer songwriters. No more itchy "labels" at all, just cut 'em orf!

In fact I'm off to liberate my pantry!
The so-called "Baked beans" feel discriminated against by the "mushy peas", so I'm going to remove those oppresive divisive labels right now!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 12:35 PM

Ms Crow Sister ~

Madam:

On behalf of the Mushy Peas Collective, I must ask you to account for the fact that you wrote 'Baked beans' with a capital B but 'mushy peas' with a lower-case m.

We regard this as a blatant case of discrimination and propose forthwith to report you to the Canned-Foods Relations Board.

Yours faithfully

(Lord) Mushiest of Peas
   Hon Complainer-in-Chief


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 12:57 PM

No! This is all wrong!
The traditional way that these threads go, is that somebody should have descended to vulgar abuse by now, and that the person abused should have provided a link to a previous, interminable squabble on the same topic. The reply to this reply should be pointing out a spelling mistake or grammatical error too.
The Mudcat culture is going right down the pan.
Cheers
Dave


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 01:03 PM

"We regard this as a blatant case of discrimination and propose forthwith to report you to the Canned-Foods Relations Board."

"Canned-Foods"?
Hey man don't try to oppress my pantry with your so-called "definitions"!
Forthwith, all consumable substances in my house, shall be known by the non-judgemental appelation "Hroom!#789"


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 01:04 PM

Guest Dave ~~ You may consider yourself vulgarly abused if it will make you feel happy: you silly old kipper you!

Bum! Likewise Poo!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 01:05 PM

all consumable substances *

* bogies optional depending on potential starvation crisis type situation.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 01:08 PM

Hey, Miss Sister ~ who you calling 'consumable'?   Huh? Just you try it, that's all!

Hroom #7 8 9 10 11 12 13......


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 01:09 PM

I cleave my parting at you.

Ooh, that's better!

PS Crowsis & MtheGM, my vacuum cleaner and nose-hair clipper are leading a sit in by household appliances aggrieved that the so-called food is getting preferential treatment.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 01:21 PM

"my vacuum cleaner and nose-hair clipper are leading a sit in by household appliances aggrieved that the so-called food is getting preferential treatment."

That's an amazing coincidence! Because recently liberated Hroom!#789 (formerly known as "mushy peas") believes that the right to practice nasal hair-clippage shouldn't be unfairly "restricted" to so-called "nose-hair clippers".


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Uke
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 01:37 PM

What all these threads about "what is folk?" prove IMHO is that people find folk/traditional important enough to debate.

Even if they can't agree, it's obviously da*med important.

Maybe it's important because people realise that there's something "good" about folk/traditional/etc.

I think the real question is: what is "good" about folk music? What is the good example it sets?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: TheSnail
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 01:52 PM

Norman?! Hah! What have the Normans ever done for us?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 02:38 PM

My goldfish has asserted his right to be recognised as a modern singer/songwriter composition in the 'folk idiom', I responded in the future with a thread on Mudcat entitled "What is Goldfish?"


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:29 AM

A point about all this.
These debates are seldom about the real definition of folk song; rather they almost exclusively cover whether what goes on in today's 'folk clubs' can be described, loosely or otherwise, as 'folk song'.
The term is clearly defined, researched and documented and works, in the form of books, articles, magazines, journals and printed and recorded examples, usually researchedm analysed and annotated, have regularly appeared since the beginning of the twentieth century and continue to do so with steady regularity all over the world.
The existing definition of folk will remain until it is either adapted (very much needed) or replaced (possibly by continual misuse - but this usually takes at least decades, if not centuries and involves the population as a whole, who up to now have shown no interest in the subject whatsoever) by something else.
So really, these long, convoluted and usually fascinating (to me anyway) debates are little more than family squabbles as to whether the club scene (as small and ineffectual as it is outside its own goldfish bowl) should make a U.D.I. and decide to go it alone (who was Ian Smith anyway?).
Long may they continue - at least it means we continue to think about what we do and have enough nouse and good manners to discuss it with others.
LET THE GAMES RE-COMMENCE!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: MikeL2
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 10:16 AM

hi crow sis

> My goldfish has asserted his right to be recognised as a modern singer/songwriter composition in the 'folk idiom',>

nah that would be too boring - he just sings and plays scales......

Just couldn't resist it.

regards

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 10:27 AM

No! I've heard he's pretty good - he used to play with Country Joe!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Joe_F
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 08:06 PM

It is cruel to beat a horse before it is dead.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: mattkeen
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 04:31 AM

IT WILL NEVER DIE!

Not as long as they keep pissing in our beer and we keep shitting in their shoes.

Billy Connolly


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Bert
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 01:47 PM

It is the refried beans that are at odds with the mushy peas, not us baked beans. We don't give a jot about them squashed lot.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: glueman
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 02:17 PM

What is folk threads come in many guises, even the traditional No Surrender ones are slicable. There are those who believe the tradition is dead but re-enacted, those who believe there was a break and rediscovery and the ones who think they are continuing the seamless and unceasing tradition of our forebears.

Each of those are further atomised into believers in performance quality and those who think vocal and instrumental viruosity is contrary to the true tradition of The People.
Then there's folk venue purists, before we get to idiomatic re-invention by singer songwriters. Most of it is Folkier than Thou, angels on the head of a pin, puritanism dressed as populism stuff but someone's gotta do it.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Are 'What is Folk?' Threads Finished?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 03:00 PM

Umm, what about those who do it just 'cos they find it (oddly) interesting - despite 'folkies' who don't actually dig it, but conversley think revival compositions is(are) "The Real Thing".
Funny old world!

Eh! I'm off for some trashy dance moozak!


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