BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:30 AM

This is ridiculous. People who are gay and commit suicide because their cultures reject homosexuality are one thing. These guys did not commit suicide to end their lives. Suicide was incidental to what they did--a necessary part, but not the goal of their actions. If fundamentalist Islam claimed they were damned because of homosexuality, then a martyrdom of this sort wouldn't save them anyway.

The reason these guys were not family men is that terrorist networks usually recruit non-family men. In fact, in an article in this month's Atlantic, the former head of Arafat's crack terrorist squads explained what they did to eliminate their own network before it hurt the cause: they got a bunch of attractive, unmarried Palestinian women and held mixers until their former suicide bombers were all married. It is well-recognized in the terrorist world that people with wives and kids won't blow themselves up.

I'm not saying none of these men were gay. But I am saying that there's no evidence at all that can't be more easily explained by other means.

And just SAYING something isn't homophobic doesn't make it so. To claim that something about Islamic homosexuals makes them willing to kill tens of thousands of people just to end their own suffering certainly isn't flattering. Remember, bigots don't INTEND to be bigots.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:29 AM

Many years ago I worked as a property claims adjuster. I went to fire scenes with a seasoned pro. He would ask the building managers whether gay males lived in the building. Shocked me. Then he said there is a strong correlation between arson and homosexuality. Make of it what you will.

Second, I read in the New York Times that a great number of the Al Qaeda recruits are young males who have been economically frustrated from achieving their marital goals.

Third, the theory of yours has no support, Mr. MacLeod, but I sure admire your balls in posing it. (Well, not your balls, per se. . . . )

Dan No Last Name

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Peg
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:24 AM

Gays are more likely to commit suicide? If this is true (I would want to see some sort of statistics which bear thisout) then no doubt it is because of the prejudice they face; this would be especially true of gay teenagers...who have committed suicide in appalling proportions in recent years.

BTW I think that theory, while, well, interesting for its novelty, is a bit ridiculous...

In addition to being evil they're also gay? Gee that's useful information.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:24 AM

Murray, did you come up with this while your wife was out of town and you were eating the half cooked pork? I gotta' go check all the possible symptoms of Trichinosis...........

Truth be told, you might have the exact reason and you could be completely out in deep roving right field. The thought is worthy because the thing we have always done least well is to understand the thinking of those that we are fighting.......witness the Bushido code of the Samurai and how we thought the Kamikaze were nuts. Trying to understand may be fraught with perils of it's own, but writing off that which we don't understand has a guaranteed peril built in.

HOWEVER, all that aside, I will continue to kid you about this one!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:15 AM

Hey Spaw you got it right first time, excessive thinking.

You got to admit it, it could be true. Although as Amos says there is no data and the evidence is scant and circumstantial at best.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:14 AM

Send me some as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:12 AM

Hey, send some to Amos too......He's been down a bit and had pneumonia and all that......I think he and I would both like to cop a quality buzz.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:10 AM

Well I was suprised, I was not going to read this thread because I thought it would be started by a guest trying to make trouble.But I heard somewhere that gay people are much more likely to commit suicide than straight people so maybe you are right.Or maybe they had been caught flying kites wich the taliban said was illegal.I think the taliban people are crazy and I hope they make a sensible peaceful goverment in Afghanistan.I really can't see the logic in banning kite flying or listening to music, what are they supposed to do all day, just sit and pray? they are all crazy if you ask me.john

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:10 AM

Maybe they were victims of excessive thinking.

Geez Murray, how in the hell did you come up with that one? I mean like your records spinning but the sound is wacky, like man, have you got a warped groove or what?

Gawd, I LOVE IT!!!! Gay guys huh? Okay MurrMan........It's a theory anyway. So listen...Send me some of that shit you're smokin' huh? Just a little.....Seems to be pretty potent stuff!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:58 PM

Suicidal fanatics from these groups are often told their families will be taken care of as a benefit of their glorious sacrifice. I have no data one way or the other on those pilots specifically though. I guess your hypothesis is as good as any without supporting data, mate -- but maybe it was bank robbery or shaving??

A

Subject: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:46 PM

It has been a long time since we had any controversial threads on here, and God knows I am not one to stir things up, but I do feel there is an issue here which should be addressed..

Ever since September 11th I have pondered the question of why anyone would want to sacrifice their life for a political ideal and until now I have not come up with any satisfactory answers. However I believe that I now have a hypothesis which may explain the "martyr " phenomenon.

The best estimate we have of the incidence of homosexuality is that 10 percent of males are homosexual. Presumably this ratio is as applicable to the Arab world as it is to the Western world. Yet where do we see evidence of a Gay Liberation Front in any of the Islamic nations? Although, as anyone who has read T.E Lawrence's "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" will be aware, homosexuality is as common in the Arab world as it is in the West, maybe even more so.

But, in modern , ever increasingly fundamentalist, I slam , we see an intolerance of homosexuality that rivals that of Victoriam Britain, when the act of sodomy was criminalized by Statute for the first time. In Britain, until the advent of the Wolfenden Report of 1957 and the subsequent decriminalization of homosexuality, one of the most common reasons for suicide among adult males was the fear of impending prosecution as a result of having been discovered in flagrante delictu

Now, when we examine the resumés of the hijackers responsible for the atrocities of 9/11 it transpires that none of them conform to the conventional husband/ father model. There is also evidence here in South Florida that they had resisted the importunings of the hookers in Fort Lauderdale.shortly before their suicide mission. (Although they were not averse to drinking alcohol) All of which leads me to guess hypothesize, call it what you will, that these men were perhaps not of the 90 percent.

My postulate is that they were first of all arrested in their own countries for committing homosexual acts, and that through the Al Qaida network, were offered redemption and a place in Paradise by carrying out thei heinous crimes of 9/11.

Now I am aware that I do not know whether any of this is true. I am equally aware that nobody can know whether it is untrue. But , IMHO, it bears thinking about . And please note that nothing in this post is intended as homophobic.

Murray