BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?

Subject: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 12:49 PM

According to tapes played at the trial of the "terrorists" in that case, the FBI planted Emad A. Salem to infiltrate an Arab group in New York. His job was to act, again, as an agent provocateur -- inciting violent attacks. It was Salem who convinced the other participants to bomb the World Trade Center. When he was asked to assemble the bomb, he went to the FBI to ask for harmless powder to avoid a catastrophe. The FBI essentially cut him off. To make a long, complicated story short and simple: The FBI spent $3 million of your tax money to blow up the World Trade Center....

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=14869

FBI Informant Edam Salem: "...we was start already building the bomb which is went off in the World Trade Center. It was built by supervising supervision from the Bureau and the DA and we was all informed about it and we know that the bomb start to be built. By who? By your confidential informant. What a wonderful great case!"

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 12:52 PM

and the guys didn't really go to the moon back in '69 either.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: leprechaun
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 12:58 PM

Hey! Bi-polar GUEST! How's it going? Oh yeah, I know. Dumb question.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:04 PM

It's always interesting to see the kooks jump in FAST with their attempts at spin-control, but they never address the ISSUES. Our FBI did the bombing of the WTC in 1993.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:09 PM

GUEST:

Please compose a song about this rampant, vile treachery.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:12 PM

Yes, please do.....and then stick it where the sun don't shine...........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Beccy
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:14 PM

The worms crawl in. The worms crawl out. The worms play penuchle on my snout...
Yeesh.
You have issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Kim C
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:15 PM

Actually I think it was alien druids from outer space.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:19 PM

they killed princess diana as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST,Gern
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:21 PM

It's interesting that this post has drawn out such hostility among the locals here at Mudcat. It seems that only certain fringe opinions are respected here. GUEST (who should sign his/her posts) cited the source for this. Although he/she should not accept it as gospel, neither should respondents trash the post without responding to the source. is this an open forum for the discussion of such matters, or not? Are we so embittered by frequent flamers that we refuse to listen to more reasoned arguments? I don't happen to buy this conspiracy theory, but I'm open to its examination. Had this post come from a Mudcat regular, would it be taken more seriously?

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: jeffp
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:24 PM

No

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:25 PM

GUEST, you do not seem to grasp the way things work. Those who make outlandish claims that run counter to conventional wisdom and/or documented history shoulder the burden of proof. Galileo understood that, as did Copernicus and Columbus. You present no issues for anyone to confront. You present non-evidence conjured out of some cockamamie speculations, and wholesale leaps of faith.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: MMario
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:26 PM

Had this come from most known mudcatters they would be deluged with PM's asking if their meds were out of balance. Except maybe Little Hawk ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:27 PM

Thanks for an actual response, Gern. My question would be...since the FBI planted Salem and knew about the plot every step of the way, how could it POSSIBLY have been pulled off without the FBI's blessing? They even had to MAKE the bomb for those morons.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:29 PM

Egyptians built New Grange. Christ is buried in France, Irish monks walked to America, LBJ killed JFK and shakespeare was not written by shakespeare but by another man of the same name.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:30 PM

Well, Gern, most Mudcat regulars have a kind of protocol, tacitly learned, about passing on alarming stories like this one. They don't do it just to stir up FUD (fear and discontent). They play such stories for humor, or they invite a reasoned and reasonable course of action. Or they pose them as intellectual puzzles, adhering to the general principles of critical analysis. Wide-ass generalizations of a negative sort do not make for good communication. And as a rule those who post regularly here are genuinely interested in the communication, whether it is analytical, intellectual, philosophical, creative, humorous, or musical.

These posts about the Bohemian Grove and the FBI sponsoring the WTC 1993 bombing are not analytical; they are not intellectual; they are not philosophical; they are not creative; they are not humorous; and they are not musical. Most of all they are not much interested in genuine communication.

If that is not clear enough to make the point, I do not know what is.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:30 PM

Guest, do you believe everything you read on the internet or hear in a courtoom?   How do you know who is telling the truth?

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:31 PM

Guest/Gern, it is because he has posted this on numerous other threads. And the links don't bear out the data he has drawn from them. Besides, it's time to play- and he makes it so easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:33 PM

Look at Salem's words again. When he realized the FBI in New York was going to give him actual live explosives (instead of the inert material they said would be used to dupe the terrorist cell he had infiltrated), Salem began recording his interactions with the FBI. The government tried to hush up the case for 'national security reasons', but what came out of the trial is absolutely conclusive...the FBI used their agent to name the target, then they fueled the project with live explosives and allowed the bombing to go forward. And this was just the 'clean' information they HAD to allow out to the public.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:39 PM

Did't Salem ghost write the Chuck Barris autobiography?

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:43 PM

Ebbie...Salem collected hundreds of hours of taped conversations with the FBI. The transcripts are all over the internet. The links hold up. The FBI is on tape convicting itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:49 PM

have you heard the tapes? have you had them analyzed to verify that they're what they claim to be? have you verified that this guy really exists? "All over the internet" is telling.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:51 PM

This is a real guy.   There were numerous reports that the tapes were doctored, which guest fails to mention.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:52 PM

oh where is Occam's razor when you need it !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: greg stephens
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 01:56 PM

The FBI have certainly been denying me access to Mudcat on several occasions this year. Unless it was green lizards pretending to be the FBI

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Kim C
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 02:05 PM

It seems like anytime there's a huge tragedy, people want to blame the Government. Since we have the Best Government in the World, they wouldn't have let something like this happen; so surely they knew about it all along, and perhaps even orchestrated it.

It happens EVERY time.

We don't like to admit that our Government may actually be run by People Like Us who are Fallible and Make Mistakes, so that when a mistake occurs, we have to conjure up some reason why.

General John Bell Hood is a good example of this. He had extremely poor judgment, and got most of his army killed in 1864. It was widely rumored that he was addicted to laudanum because of previous injuries; why else would he be so STUPID? He was a West Point graduate and a General fercryinoutloud! However... there are no records of any doctors giving it to him, no accounts of witnesses seeing him take it, no accounts of anyone saying they saw him drunk or drugged or any of that. No one wanted to admit that maybe he just wasn't a very good General.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 02:06 PM

They don't use green lizards in southeast Alaska, greg. They would be too conspicuous because we don't have many reptiles. (Winters are too long.) So the FBI has had to be more innovative. Up here I think they use rain. Invariably when I can't get logged onto the Mudcat, it's raining. There, see? Occam's Razor...

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 02:18 PM

Conspiracy was here ya see, it's all across the net
Provacateurs and maddness cures,... the rest we'll soon forget
Flaming boys and warring toys in spotights made of doom
Are inside out in whimpy doubt, as knee jerks to the gloom!
ttr *BG*

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 02:26 PM

Hood's soldiers fought like there was no tomorrow. It's the way you should be fighting now, Kim C. No string of mistakes led from the '93 WTC bombing being supervised by the FBI to the Murrah Building bombing to Sept 11 and now to our government PROMISING us we will be nuked and contaminated. All this has been done in order to put a police-state framework in place...legally, on paper.

Well, now we have our police state on paper, and all that has to be done to make it real is for GWBush or one of his designees to say the 'threat' of a bioattack has occurred. After that, all American airports will be closed, all radio and TV will be taken over by FEMA, all roads leading out of cities will be blocked. You will be told to sit still until help arrives, then in 4 days the food riots will begin. A couple of cops will get shot in some city, and according to the edicts of martial law, no one in that city will be issued food until the guns are confiscated (it'll be too dangerous for the 'peacekeepers' to distribute food if there are guns out there). More riots, killing, etc...then eventually the mop-up crews will kill survivors or route them to prison camps as slave labor.

But all this is unnecessary. Just speak out against it, and it will go away. Like turning on a light switch to make the roaches run for the shadows. Your 'government' is nothing but a collection of multi-national corporations now, and your freedoms, rights and liberties cannot be tolerated any longer. You'd better do something about that.

And a good place to start, in case you really AREN'T aware of how this takeover began, is with the '93 bombing. The FBI did it. Why?

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 02:33 PM

The best government in the world.......wow, that IS scary.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: leprechaun
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 02:36 PM

I think it's wrong for Thomas the Rhymer to take credit for something obviously written by William Shakespeare.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 02:36 PM

That was Chuck Barris' alternate ending.

I'm glad that some of us have a little more optomistic. Be careful of those monsters under the bed Guest!

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 02:43 PM

Damn if we don't need a hero to match up with this thoery on it's own terms!!! Where is the Easter Bunny when you need him????

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: MMario
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 02:53 PM

This is a job for *drum roll* The Easter Beagle!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Kim C
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 03:10 PM

Hey, I've got my blackpowder guns. I'm ready for 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 05:14 PM

I wonder if Joe Offer could check to see if GUEST's posts aren't coming the Psych Ward of a Mental Hospital, (or delivered at the other end of a taughtly drawn string, from a can phone).

You talk about being scared of conspiracies. I bet this guy pees so much in his dreams that he has to sleep in a kiddy pool...

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: artbrooks
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 05:28 PM

I visualize ANON.GUEST walking around with his/her belongings in a grocery cart, and using the PC in the public library, where it's warm, to both do his/her "research" and to contact Mudcat. He/she is silly, but harmless.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Beccy
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 05:33 PM

Oh, ARGH... I tried to resist feeding the troll... but...I am powerless to my overpowering sense of being too clever for my own good.

Did the FBI bomb my house around 3 p.m. last night? Oh, wait, no... that must've been the beans I fed the fellas at dinner.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 05:48 PM

No need to apologize, Beccy. Fewer and fewer places on the net present the truth, so I knew you'd be back. You WANT to know the truth, even though it may be unpleasant. Yes, the FBI DID bomb the WTC in '93. I'm just trying to get you folks up to speed so you can eventually all look at current events realistically. And a good place to start is 10 years ago, with the documented fact that the FBI tried to blow up the WTC and failed.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: leprechaun
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 05:59 PM

OK I confess.

All these GUEST trolls have really been me, in my manic-depressive disguise, just putting out a lot of outlandish horseshit to see who would agree with me.

Unfortunately, not many of you have taken the bait. I only have a few radical sicko names to report to the FBI.

Next week I'll adopt a new personna to entrap all the kiddie-porn sickos.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 06:12 PM

Unfortunately, that IS what a lot of people think. If they agree with me...publicly...the bogeymen might show up.

And that's not acceptable in America, folks. We still have a First Amendment Right of free speech. But a right not exercised is a right which doesn't exist. The U.S. government is currently controlled by a global crime syndicate, and that syndicate is trying to use terrorism to accomplish world conquest. ONE way they terrorize is to make you think you are constantly under surveillance. Well you're not. And even if you WERE, how can they act on all the data they collect? It'll take years to collate all the anti-government statements...and by that time they'll be jailing you for body odor and hairstyle, anyway, just so they can use you as slave labor, so you'd better speak out NOW to stop the growing tyranny, or it really WILL end up as you all fear. If not worse.

And why speak out on petty issues? You expose the BIG abuses, not the little. I contend the FBI killed 6 people in 1993 when it tried to kill FIFTY THOUSAND by blowing up the World Trade Center. I contend this establishes a pattern of behavior which would indicate the same people who blew up the bomb in '93 brought down the towers in '01. Our government is killing us in order to forge a police state.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 06:19 PM

Troll feeding time I see!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: NicoleC
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 06:20 PM

*yawn*

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 06:41 PM

guest, are you posting thus tripe anywhere else? Why here? Why do you pick a folk music site to throw out weird conspiricy theories?

I share MY opinions on stuff here also at times...but with a few clicks you can find out exactly who & where I am!...and you can drive right to MY door and 'discuss' it.....but, of course, YOU stand behind a sheet, and bait and make outlandish claims with impunity....

Go away!

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 07:07 PM

Yeah, I'm wondering where else you're posting too. How many hours does one day have? (Yes, I know. 24.)

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Gareth
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 07:08 PM

Was General Hood related to General Douglas Haig ??? If so is there a consprital limk between failed Generals ??


"He's a cheerful old cove, said Harry to Jack,
As they marched up to Arras, with Rifle and Pack,
But he did for them both with his plan of attack !!"

Or something like that.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 08:16 PM

Well, danged! I like GUEST! There, it's out...

Now, GUEST may not hit every time he fires one of his conspiracy theories up but, hey, many are thought provoking. I might have mentioned a few dozen times over the last 14 months that Iz been hangin' 'round the Catbox that not only do I not trust the government but I also like a conspiracy theory as much as the next nut.

With that said,like anything is possible. Just consider the folks who have been assasinated during the last 40 years in the US. Malcolm X who as a Muslim spoke of white and black people living togetehr as equals. Like Bobby Kennedy, who was doing the same. Like Mertin Luther King, Jr. All voices of moving beyond racism. All killed bgy folks who just didn't quite have legit motives. Hmmmmm? Oh sure, the governemnt has motives for all of them but when you think about it, none of these folks were killed by idealogists with extreme philosophies. This makes me very paranoid of the governemnt. I will go to my grave beleiving that the governemnt killed all three.

Now lets look at the other side. You know, the bigots, the racists, the war mongers. Like, why aren't these folks assasinated? You got Grand Wizzards and an asoortment of other rednecks who can say and o what they want and they die of natural causes. Okay, Ronnie took a bullet but from whom? A nut. Not a CIA/FBI deal there or Ronnie would have been killed. That's one thing about the governemnt. When they want your butt dead, they don't mess around...

Now with the rant over, I don't think the FBI was in on the WTC bombing in '93 becasue it was botched so badly.

Like I say, when these folks do a job, they do it right.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 08:23 PM

Let's see...about ten bulletin boards/forums. That's what I keep bookmarked, and as I get blocked or after I make my major points, I move on...start on another board. Fast typing, no re-writing, little real-time research for URLs, and bookmarking threads makes it a fast business. Fast computers, too. I'm quick to type out my thoughts, so it takes less time than it might seem. I need to work up some broadside-type postings though, with URLs included, to cut down on the quibbling from incredulous people.

The problem with the Mudcat forum is, if a thread isn't posted to, it's prioritized down the list and out of sight pretty quickly. So I have to keep re-visiting to post something so you folks will have more time to see the thread. It IS important to me that you see this stuff...I'm not pulling your chains...and after I hit the high points I'll move on.

Mainly I just want people to know there is an alternate and valid view of current events. All through history governments have attacked their own people in order to unify them against a fabricated 'outside threat'. Only now, we're getting down to the endgame. Just a couple more attacks and consolidations, and we're going to have a unified tyrannical world government. I look just as hard for evidence to DISprove this as I look for evidence to substantiate it, but the more I read the more I see the same names crop up...old-money names connected with terrorism, arms sales, banking, etc.

Another thing I do is, when I surprise myself and present a well-though-out idea that might be of use to the public, I copy and paste it into an email to editorial writers. They reach thousands at a time, so it's a better use of my time than writing letters to the editor. In my opinion.

Yeah, I've been spending a lot of time here, and I know it's a music forum, but we're all people too, and we're about to be fed upon by a bunch of vampires. Seriously, the decadent old royal families of Europe...jaded from centuries of having it all...are the basis for vampire legends. The 'count' in the castle on the hill. And these same perverts are major shareholders in the New World Order and are about to reach a point where they no longer have to hide their despicable activities. We will be disarmed and imprisoned, and if they want to skin you alive after that, what will stop them? So I just think people should know about these things.

Total typing time: 7 minutes +/-

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: leprechaun
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 08:30 PM

Sometimes they do.

They seriously botched the Branch Davidian raids twice by underestimating the evil of David Koresh and his minions. And that's how it usually is with the FBI and most other law enforcement agencies. They get complacent. They think too well of people, and expect them to act civilized, like the vast majority of people they deal with. After several thousand raids, undercover stings and arrests, they get the notion that nobody will really fight back like homicidal maniacs.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 08:36 PM

The only reason the tower didn't fall in '93 was because a New Yorker was illegally parked and the van with the bomb couldn't get up against the central support column. Could only get within 8 feet. They tried, folks. They tried HARD. And they learned lessons. In 1995, when they blew up the Murrah building in Oklahoma City, they had two men in blue jumpsuits hold the parking place in front of the building for mind-control victim McVeigh. 12 surveillance tapes were seized by the feds and never shown at the trial, because the tapes show others involved in the bombing.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Gareth
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 08:41 PM

My Oh My - European Royal Famillies are responsible for Vampire Ledgends. Hey ! Princess Diana, and Tthe Queen Mum will rise again !!

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 08:46 PM

"...and as I get blocked"...tells me a lot.

there was a woman who used to call into local radio talk shows here in Wash DC....she had her pet themes and she was so SURE she had all the answers, and she had a speed dialer, and she yammered for several years before the various shows learned to identify her voice and and limit her time. I guess there's little one can do when the occasional fast typist with a 'cause' gets into a mostly um-censored forum.....EXCEPT IGNORE them....if they have no other agenda here than to stir things up, they should not be here!

If regular Mudcat mebmers and friends want to skip music for a bit and discuss other things, I have no problems. I do it myself..but I do NOT look for places to anonymously dump MY favorite list of fears & gripes, and I have several!!

Max wants a little censorship as possible, and this is the price we pay..........I guess I'll just ignore as much as I can...

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 08:52 PM

leprechaun:

Sent the wrong guys for the job. The FBI, if it had handled it from Day 1, rather than ATF, would have taken out David Kiresch with single bullet, then arrested and briefly held most of the residents with m ost being released to de-programming folks arranged thru their families.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 09:28 PM

Did the CIA bomb the WTC on 911? Was bin Laden an invention? Where is bin Laden anyway? Did you know your phone is tapped as it hangs on the wall? THEY can hear what's being said in every home of this free country called America. Can you believe this?

wdyat24

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 09:41 PM

wdyat24...there are still folks who are SURE Elvis is not dead..... why not this?

"VI. CONCLUSION




"Now I'll give you something to believe[" the White Queen remarked.] "I'm just one hundred and one, five months and a day."

"I can't believe that!" said Alice.

"Can't you?" the Queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again, draw a long breath and shut your eyes."

Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said, "one can't believe impossible things."

"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 09:42 PM

Sure, wdyat24, our job is to create so many of us that *they* will implode under the pressure of keeping track of millions of us. Johnny Poindexter, convicted felon, says he's up for the job. I doubt it. Too many of use and too few of them. Okay, so like they start collecting a few hundred thousand of us? Well, then word speads real fast and then instead of a illion folks to worry about it will be ten million, then twenty million and then what they thought was their endgame, with the entire peasant class strapped to their assembly lines, the peasnt class will be outside of their homes tearing down the fences and emanding a fair share of Thomas Jefferson's vision.

Hey, thats the wat it may just have to go. No one said these folks is any smarter for being born into the ruling class. They will find out that one way or another. National strikes and boycotts of their crap should send a real big time message. If they don't let up that's what democracy will look like real soon..l.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 09:47 PM

The loading has begun!

wdyat24

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 09:54 PM

Oh Whoops! wrong thread. Oh well, works for me.

wdyat24

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: toadfrog
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 10:06 PM

Well, I think GUEST posts these things because they get a sure-fire response. He wants attention. He lives in symbiosis with those who enjoy exposing the fallacy of his theories. I don't see what all this has to do with music. Get the point?

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 10:14 PM

You're right toadfrog! What does this have to to with music... lyrics or folktales?

wdyat24

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 10:18 PM

toadfrog:

I generally find myself in agreement with you but on this one, I'm going to have to drift a tad far from the shores.

Hey, BS threads have been around as long as I have been (14 months) and they must serve some purpose or Max would have changed the format.

GUEST works real hard at bringing information to this forum. Hey, I don't always agree with GUEST and there has been at least one thread where Max had to step in and eliminate the thread becuase of it's personal deterioration and Max was corrct in doing so.

None the less, GUEST is an important contributor. Especially in these times...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 10:19 PM

eall roads leading out of cities will be blocked.
Nah, nah, nah nah, GUEST. I don't have to worry- there are no roads out of Juneau.


You know, the bigots, the racists, the war mongers. Like, why aren't these folks assasinated? You got Grand Wizzards and an asoortment of other rednecks who can say and o what they want and they die of natural causes. Bobert, just maybe the ones who oppose the bigots, the racists, the warmongers are not as knee-jerk violent as the bigots, the racists and the warmongers...

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 10:24 PM

The loading has begun! Get on the bus and forget about us!

wdyat24

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 31 Jan 03 - 11:44 PM

Thanks leprechaun! Sorry 'bout the crass poem, but the crass nature of the guest's demeanor seemed to kinda waiting for an opinion, so I gave him one mine...of himself... I dont mind the conspiracy theories much, I get a kick out of 'em, I guess... But what pisses me off about the 'guest in question' is that he/she is pedantic rather that conversational, overbearing rather than congenial, paranoid rather than insightful, rude instead of pleasant, ...and pompous beyond Bobert's wildest dreams! I also have a distinct impression that the 'guest in question' has no love of folk/trad music, and is posting as a guest to hide his/her identity from mudcatters rather than... In short, this guest is the agent provocateur of our own internet age, and is stirring the pot... to elusive recipes...I too wish he/she would go away... Please guest? Yes, I once said recently, that it is tame here at the mudcat... and for good reasons! (sez I, just figuring out the protocall a bit...) ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 01:15 AM

(But Thomas...just don't read the stuff if it's distressing. I give my threads bombastic titles, to forewarn people, and anyway, a couple sentences in and you'll know it's me. So just avoid this stuff if it upsets you. I don't enjoy posting it, but it HAS to be done. Look at the two pieces below for an example of WHY I have to do this. The first concerns the OSI, which was such a public relations nightmare the Pentagon said it was disbanded a year ago. But it wasn't. Our new overlords just got arrogant for a moment and had to rub our faces in their supposed superiority. So a year ago the OSI was allegedly dissolved, but now we have this nonsense news about Iraqi agents coming into the U.S. to stir up anti-war rallies):

Millions always suspected it. Now reports from within a secret agency confirm that the U.S. government systematically plants disinformation in the mass media--to build support for itself and isolate those it wishes to destroy.

On February 19 (a year ago), the New York Times reported that the Pentagon's new Office of Strategic Influence (OSI) is "developing plans to provide news items, possibly even false ones, to foreign media organizations" in an effort "to influence public sentiment and policy makers in both friendly and unfriendly countries." The plan would include sending "tips" to reporters via email and other means.

http://rwor.org/A/V23/1140-1147/1141/pentagon_lies.htm

WASHINGTON (today)-- Iraq sent spies from Canada to New York and Washington this month to snoop and stir up anti-war demonstrations, according to a government report obtained by the New York Daily News.

The Foreign Affairs Department wasn't commenting late yesterday on the report, which claims the Iraqi Embassy in Ottawa sent "operatives" over the border to "intensify spying activities and to carry out anti-U.S. demonstrations to stop a war against Iraq."

http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-01-31-0011.html

(I juxtapose these two stories to show how we're being manipulated. Because our overlords made us aware that Hussein's people are 'controlling' our anti-war protests, we will now be considered employees of and co-conspirators with Hussein if we engage in protests against the war. Even though the govt already TOLD us they were going to plant false stories, they'll point back to this one about the agitators and claim YOU are working for Hussein if you engage in ANY protest against the government's 'war effort'. And that will mean 'enemy combatant' status...torture, tribunal trial and a bullet in the head. Seriously. When martial law kicks in, you get no lawyer, no appeal, and curbside execution if 3 officers agree. But...any thinking person knows that Hussein is an idiot. He's confined to 4 cities in Iraq and he doesn't even control the airspace over 2/3's of his country. So how is he...with his stone-age grasp of international intrigue...going to reach out and send agents from Canada into your town to 'fan anti-war protests'? The only POSSIBLE reason for the government planting this story is to lay legal groundwork to claim YOU were working for Hussein if you protest the war, or the tax increase to pay for the war, etc. We are in DIRE STRAITS. The criminals responsible for the terrorism going on around the world right now are setting YOU up to answer for THEIR crimes. And I HAVE to point this out. I'll post this here, paste it somewhere else, and hopefully some more people will start to see what's going on. You'd be doing the same if you had studied this stuff the way I have over the past year and a half. Meanwhile, I'll confine these posts to the BS thread, which it's my understanding is what it's for. I'd put all this in rhyme to make it easier to digest if I could, but it's hard enough to just get the sentences out.)

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 03:32 AM

Whatever, dude.... Reread my previous post, if you actually read it the first time... I have no further comments for you. ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 07:45 PM

I couldn't agree more with your assessment of Saddam's pathetically weak America-attacking capabilities, GUEST. This situation is even more ludicrous than Hitler's preinvasion propaganda about the dire threat that Poland supposedly represented to peace-loving Germans in 1939!

Consider...

1. Poland was much weaker than Germany, but not nearly so much weaker as Iraq is vis-a-vis the USA.

2. Poland was actually occupying a fair bit of land that had been German territory for some time prior to the 1st World War. Iraq is occupying no foreign land whatsoever at this point, and most certainly no American land.

3. Germany did not have the exquisite advantage of denying Poland the use of 2/3 of its own airspace and subjecting them to frequent bombings and economic starvation for 10 years prior to the main event.

4. Germany did not have the even more exquisite advantage of pre-inspecting all of Poland's defences and strategic materials on the ground and from the air, prior to launching a full scale invasion.

And the USA thinks it has the right to do this crazy stuff!

It's so amazing, you'd think it was a fiction...a novel. This is nerve. Colossal, incredible nerve. This is a rogue superpower that doesn't give a damn what the rest of the World thinks, because it feels it is above the rest of the World.

Hitler arranged a false Polish attack on Germany in the last hours before the panzers rolled. I think Bush has already arranged a few "incidents", in order to garner support at home and abroad, but I doubt that he is through doing so. I shudder to think what he will do next, if public support isn't there in the USA when the time comes.

The lesson all dictators use to their gain is this: You can motivate people through three powerful negative emotions...greed, hatred, and fear. Most of all, FEAR. Couple them with patriotism, and you've got a mad dog on your hands.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 07:47 PM

Did the FBI bomb the WTC towers in 2002?

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 10:27 PM

I think this guest is sincere. I used to know someone who believed a lot of the same kinds of things that this guest does. He was a pretty normal, average sort of guy in a lot of ways. Owner of a small business, father of three children, married for 20 years, then divorced. Pretty much like a lot of folks, and you wouldn't know to look at him that he believed these kinds of things.

In those days (before most people had internet access), he got his information from newsletters and books. That was shortly before the Oklahoma City bombing. I think that event toned down some of the rhetoric a bit for a little while.

GUEST, if you are sincere, here's something I think you ought to try. I suggest that you imagine a white light surrounding you and protecting you from negative energies. Then, I suggest that you say this: "I ask for everyone in the world to recieve whatever protection and help they need in order to do whatever is to the highest good of all concerned".

I think you might feel a lot better if you do that. And who knows? it might just make a very big difference in how things happen in the world if enough people do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Feb 03 - 11:54 PM

I knew there was a reason I loved you, CarolC, other than you were from these parts, and now I know what it is. Well put.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 03:57 AM

Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?

GUEST, that was a column in worldnetdaily, written by a man who is trying to sell a book which is calling for "a second American Revolution" This man is the managing editor of this "news site" Do you think there is a possibility that he has a hidden agenda?

Your choice of sources is intriguing, in this one little thread you manage to quote an ultra right wing commentary rag. AND you Quote a website promoting Communist . The first site tells us that teaching evolution as "fact" is the ruination of our society. The other "teaches the science of evolution" so that society can be protected from "religious fundamentalists". Are you hoping that these oposites cancel one another so that you will end up with a balanced world view?

One guy is offering opinion with nothing to support it but his word, the other begins a "news" story with WASHINGTON (today)-- giving no source but its own words.

Do you believe everything you read. as long as its is in an "article"?

Do what Carol said. Cut down on the stimulants and see a mental health professional as soon as possible. You will be glad that you did.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 09:53 AM

Ah, but the truth is in the middle ground between the ultra-right and the ultra-left. Both are in peril in America right now, if they only stopped to analyze the situation. Connie Chung has broadcast that the Michigan Militia was training with al Qeada in the mid '80s in South America. So that link has been made...conservative/Christian/Republican/Constitutionalist = al Qeada. The historical backbone of American society is about to be attacked. Same for the ultra-left. (Michigan militia wasn't founded until 1994, I learned after reading Chung's transcript...so deliberate false info was presented to the public).

Carol C....you're preaching thought over action. Reminds me of the age-old debate about what makes a good Christian...deeds or intention. Prayer or action. Silence serves no useful purpose when you are under attack. At best it may only lull the aggressor into a false sense of security. But these aggressors now...they're playing for stakes that are too big. They have to be confronted NOW. With words now and bullets later, if need be. But if enough people spoke out, there wouldn't BE any need for bullets. Thanks for your concern, but I feel I'm helping to offer the world 'protection' by speaking out on what I consider to be fact. I sincerely believe our FBI tried to bring down the WTC in '93 and think anyone else analyzing the info would arrive at the same conclusion. How would keeping silent about that bring security to those around me?

Little Hawk...yeah, the parallels to Poland are striking. GWBush is the Hitler figure in the analogy. The rest of the world knows this, but Americans seem oblivious to it. I believe the old 'Rothschild Formula' is being manipulated...if you have a weak country, tell it a powerful neighbor is about to invade and sell weapons to the weaker of the two. Then, send in agents to provoke a war, and when the fighting starts, sell arms to BOTH sides. The Rothschilds used the formula through the 19th century in Europe and around the world, then the tradition was carried on by the global crime / banking syndicate in the twentieth century, and now it's being applied to create 'The U.S. versus the World'. The media keeps rattling on about America being 'the last superpower', but that's crap. We're weakening while Russia maintains and China grows. Hell, even North Korea is building nukes while we dismantle ours. And meanwhile, our President-Select is presenting the U.S. in the worst possible light to the rest of the world. Every single opportunity he gets, he presents us as crass, bullying, greedy, murderous, uncaring, etc. So the stage is being set where the rest of the world will forced to stop the 'rogue superpower'. Weapons will be sold at marked-up prices, bankers will make more money, then America will be taken down as the first 'benevolent' act of the new world government. Or so I believe.

Thomas...I read your post. It was thoughtful and I respect it. I thought I answered you in the two or three sentences I wrote that weren't presenting my new 'thesis'. You asked me to stop posting, and I tried to point out why I consider it important to make people aware of things they might not normally come across. Sorry I bug you.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: *daylia*
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 10:03 AM

GUEST, prayer is action, even though it might not be your choice of action! Ever tried it? If not, then you really don't know what you're talking about. If so, then way to go for finding something that 'works better' for you! But it's not fair to knock other people for being different than yourself, is it?

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 10:03 AM

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0211/07/cct.00.html

CHUNG: And what did they consist of? Were they people that are now identifiable or prospective terrorists?

JUNGER: He's identified them, including American right-wing extremists who are down there, who have been down there since the mid- '80s.

CHUNG: You mean Aryan Nations?

JUNGER: Yes, Aryan Nations, MICHIGAN MILITIA, photos and names of these guys. One was ex-special forces.

CHUNG: An ex-special forces?

JUNGER: Yes, Vietnam era.

That is not unheard of. There was an ex-special forces American soldier who was providing security for bin Laden in Sudan in '94, I believe it was. So, that kind of crossover from sort of alienated American military or right-wing extremists is not unheard of.

He has identified these men to me. The U.S. government, of course, is quite careful about what they confirm and don't confirm. So I haven't gotten anything back from this side. But there's an enormous amount of evidence that this activity is happening.

CHUNG: I guess the burning question -- and just in the last 15 seconds -- is: Do you know of any specific potential terrorist attack against the United States based on this Argentinian's information?

JUNGER: Well, a contact of his who was trained in these al Qaeda training camps says that he has been monitoring meetings they've had in the past month about attacks in the U.S. I've also had that confirmed from other intelligence sources. So, it really looks like something is happening down there.

CHUNG: So frightening.

Thank you.

JUNGER: Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 10:09 AM

So you thought I was knocking Carol C? I guess that's what you're talking about. I don't see it. But sure, it's OK to knock people different from yourself. I think the Nazis were bad for what they did to the Jews. Is it OK for me to knock the Nazis? Is that permitted, daylia? Man you folks can be thin-skinned.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: *daylia*
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 10:26 AM

Actually GUEST it's not our jobs as human beings to judge anyone else. Most people don't have the ability to read another's minds or hearts or past experiences, and so we are just not capable of judging their actions or their choices. (Even though we often try to anyway, at the expense of peace and freedom).

I've heard that our only job as human beings is to learn to love better, starting with ourselves. I like that! Saves me wasting my time and energy trying to analyse or condemn other people, a job I find best left to the more qualified 'Judges', whoever they are!

And believe me, I'm not rooting for the Nazi's or anyone else here! And I'm not calling you 'thinskinned' just because you don't know the active power of 'prayer'! You have your own 'power', I'm sure! Onwards and upwards!!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 11:00 AM

It's ok. I don't feel "knocked". Just disagreed with. I can handle that ;-)

(But thanks for your insights, daylia.)

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 11:13 AM

"Ah, but the truth is in the middle ground between the ultra-right and the ultra-left."

Actually it is not. Fringe groups tend to exaggerate and lie to gain agreement and support

Lie + Lie does not equal truth.

Assuming that all that you are saying is true, you are hurting your cause.

"Let's see...about ten bulletin boards/forums. That's what I keep bookmarked, and as I get blocked or after I make my major points, I move on...start on another board. Fast typing, no re-writing, little real-time research for URLs, and bookmarking threads makes it a fast business. Fast computers, too. I'm quick to type out my thoughts, so it takes less time than it might seem. I need to work up some broadside-type postings though, with URLs included, to cut down on the quibbling from incredulous people."

Your frenetic, "bombastic" style and your presentation of sources which lack credibility are making people "incredulous". You are desensitizing people to your beliefs by presenting them in the worst possible light. You are helping the very "cockroaches" that you wish to expose by preempting more reasoned arguements. If I were looking for conspiracy, I would say that you are an agent of the Rothchilds and the FBI.

If you calm down and take your time, you may actually get somewhere with you mission.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: DougR
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 01:12 PM

Bobert: your defense of GUEST probably has nothing to do with the fact that he mirrors your POV most of the time. Hmmmmmmmmmm?
:>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 01:27 PM

I think of Guest and Bobert as oil and water... Guest supports the hording of guns to kill the Dark illuminatti and it's conspiring henchmen, and Bobert supports human rights and he fights for peace... Night and day, really ;^) ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: *daylia*
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 01:34 PM

Gotta have both to make a world
Even if it makes my head just swirl
I'll gather info like a squirrel
Till the mix-and-matching makes me hurl!

Sorry, I'm feelin a bit strange today ...

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Hippie Chick
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 01:35 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The FBI and the mad bombers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© 1999 WorldNetDaily.com

The FBI is warning us, through its Project Megiddo report, that right-wing Christians are dangerous terrorists prone to incite violence in the weeks ahead.

This warning is more than slanderous, bigoted and inciteful. It needs to be understood in context. That context is that the FBI has set up a system of self-fulfilling prophecies that permits the government to scapegoat groups of people who are enticed into committing illegal acts or conspiring about them by agents provocateur.

Whether the groups are organized militia outfits, Christian Identity, the White Aryan Resistance movement or some other misfit, would-be "terrorists," the tentacles of funding, control and conspiracy always seem to lead right back to the government -- whether it's the FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms or some other similar agency.

This is the case with the most dramatic bombings in the recent history of our country -- from Oklahoma City to the World Trade Center.

On behalf of the BATF, Carol Howe infiltrated Timothy McVeigh's cell while it prepared to blow up federal buildings. She tried to testify at McVeigh's trial to tell what she knew about the conspiracy behind it and was thanked for her troubles with an indictment. Anyone who believes McVeigh was the mastermind of that operation is either poorly informed or a certified fool.

Howe identified as a participant in the plot a German former intelligence officer named Andreas Strassmeier. While in the U.S., he enjoyed full diplomatic immunity, carrying concealed weapons, talking about bombing the Murrah Building and practicing with explosives. Reporter Ambrose Evans-Pritchard of the London Telegraph called Strassmeier after he returned to Germany. Here's how that conversation went, according to Evans-Pritchard's book, "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton."

Evans-Pritchard: "There comes a time in every botched operation when the informant has to speak out to save his own skin, and that's now, Andreas."

Strassmeier: "How can he? What happens if it was a sting operation from the very beginning? What happens if it comes out that the plant was a provocateur?"

Evans-Pritchard: "A provocateur?"

Strassmeier: "What if he talked and manipulated the others into it. ... The relatives of the victims are going to go crazy. He's going to be held responsible for the murder of 168 people. ... Of course the informant can't come forward. He's scared ... right now."

The most sensible conclusion anyone came to after examining evidence like this is that the Oklahoma City bombing was a sting operation that went wrong.

But, incredibly, the same conclusion can be drawn about the World Trade Center bombing.

According to tapes played at the trial of the "terrorists" in that case, the FBI planted Emad A. Salem to infiltrate an Arab group in New York. His job was to act, again, as an agent provocateur -- inciting violent attacks. It was Salem who convinced the other participants to bomb the World Trade Center. When he was asked to assemble the bomb, he went to the FBI to ask for harmless powder to avoid a catastrophe. The FBI essentially cut him off. To make a long, complicated story short and simple: The FBI spent $3 million of your tax money to blow up the World Trade Center.

The story's essentially the same at Waco, Ruby Ridge and other government-made disasters. This week we learned the FBI has spent a year involved in a militia cell in California "investigating" a plot to blow up a propane facility in hopes of sparking martial law. I won't be shocked to learn later that FBI agents were leading these so-called militiamen down the primrose path -- actually inviting terrorist activity, encouraging it, paying for it.

When will this insanity end? What is the overall objective of the FBI and government? Are these activities actually designed to thwart terrorism or encourage it? Who benefits most from terrorist activity?

Americans might be shocked to learn that their government is involved in such escapades. But those who study history should expect such things. It's been going on since the beginning of time. Planting seeds of fear among the people only helps those in government remain in power and grab more control over people's lives.

Remember this the next time you hear about a so-called "terrorist incident." And, tell your representatives and senators it's time to rein in the mad bombers and provocateurs in our own government.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Joseph Farah's nationally syndicated column originates at WorldNetDaily, where he serves as editor and chief executive officer. If you would like to see the column in your local newspaper, contact your local editor. Tell your paper the column is available through Creators Syndicate.



Here's the article.   I say conspiracies need proof. Show me.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 01:37 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 02:22 PM

OK, since the Illuminati and 'negative thoughts' were brought up on this thread, here's something y'all might be interested in. I've never heard of a couple of these military programs...need to look them up. I remember Jack Brooks, from Texas, being told to shut up years ago when he asked Ollie North about the 'shadow government' in a congressional hearing. Inoue told Brooks it was a national secret, and today we have a shadow government...200 unelected, Executive Branch bureaucrats living in bunkers as our 'backup government' in case 'anything happens'. Completely disregards the constitutional line of succession:

http://www.store.yahoo.com/infowars-shop/amgulconcami.html

Concentration camps in America? Feds set to toss millions of innocent Americans into gruesome factories of torture and death?… Could it be? Sounds preposterous. Yet…in this video, Texe Marrs marshals overwhelming evidence so convincing it boggles the mind.

WITH YOUR OWN EYES, EXAMINE THE EVIDENCE

-Congressman Jack Brooks, angering Lt. Col. Oliver North and cronies by exposing the existence of top secret FEMA plan, Rex 84, a scheme to roundup American dissidents into camps and suspend the Constitution.

-The forcible incarceration of innocent Japanese-Americans by socialist President Franklin D. Roosevelt in "internment camps"…and the brutal treatment resisters received.

-The 2,000-plus Communist concentration camps in the U.S.S.R., where millions perished. The testimony of a former Soviet persecutor.

-Railroad cars, complete with chains and shackles, designed to transport victims to camps—discovered in the U.S.A.

-Sightings of actual concentration camps inside the U.S.A., with guard towers and crematoria, prepared for a signal from the elite to begin their heinous operations.

-The U.S. Air Force manual (Garden Plot, Plan 55-2) outlining the operations of camps to imprison civilians.

-"Operation Cablesplicer"—the secret plan to identify and target resisters to the New World Order and arrest and incarcerate these men and women when the order is given.

-The torture tools to be used in tomorrow's "chambers of horror," to include high tech laser weapons, thumbscrews, chainsaws, electric shock, branding irons, skull crushers, and guillotines.

-Historical examples of concentration camp horrors in Hitler's Nazi Germany, Japan's imperial regime, Pol Pot's Cambodia and in colonial Africa.

-The Coming Great Day of Purification—in the United States!

-The satanic rationale for blood to be shed, the sick religious doctrine of the Illuminati, and the New Age plot to "purify and cleanse" mother earth of "negative karmic influences."

-The hidden U.S. history of concentration camp programs and government-sanctioned mass murder and genocide, including the occultic Phoenix Program in Vietnam, in which tens of thousands of men, women, and teenagers, convicted of no crimes, were abducted, imprisoned, tortured, raped, mutilated, and killed. These horrendous crimes were approved and supervised at the highest levels of the U.S. intelligence and military communities, with the express knowledge of our U.S. Congress and Presidents Nixon and Johnson.

-The inside story of Pastor Jim Jones, his socialist Peoples Temple, and the CIA's massacre of over 900 in Guyana. Jones prison camp was, in fact, an experimental, mind control death camp, and the victims did not commit suicide—they were ruthlessly murdered by a CIA hit team.

-Dozens of former U.S. military installations in over 28 states converted to federal prisons and to "internment camps"—waiting for innocent citizens who refuse to go along with the fed's plot to suspend the constitution's Bill of Rights.

-Secret underground bases, subterranean "cities," and miles-long tunnels and caverns in Texas, Kansas, Virginia, and elsewhere, to house millions of pre-identified citizens scheduled to be imprisoned as threats to national security.

-The United Nations role in the genocidal massacre of almost one million men, women, and children.

-------

Break out the popcorn!

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST,nincompoop
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 02:31 PM

Buttered?

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 03:29 PM

http://www.geocities.com/northstarzone/CAMPS.html

I already KNOW where my neighborhood concentration camp is located. Do you know where YOURS is?

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 05:23 PM

Ahhhhh!! So you are promoting the sale of videos.

Finnally something that makes sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 05:37 PM

No, I haven't seen this video. Sounds a bit more pertinent than the latest Disney release, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: *daylia*
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 05:48 PM

GUEST your link doesn't work. What a surprise!

;-) daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 06:00 PM

The FBI did in fact let their chief muslim NYC bomber informant go. They simply stopped paying him. They claimed cutbacks.

Deliberate?

We don't know.

Stupid?

You be the judge.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 06:16 PM

Whatever !

It will play out as it will.

Watch and see...

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 06:30 PM

I just tried both links and they work. I always put the cursor at the right end of the string and hold down the left button and drag backwards to the beginning. You don't get the space at the end that way, which might be your problem. Or maybe it's just a mental block...you don't want to see it, therefore it isn't there. I do that with criticism.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 06:35 PM

Everyone knows it was Space Aliens following injunctions laid down in the Bible that were responsible.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 06:38 PM

Doug:

What ttr said. Okay, GUEST and I may see a few things the same we disagree on what to do about it. GUEST thinks we need to go out and buy more guns and I think we need to stick with the lessons of Ghandi and Marytin Luther King.

Guns will insure our demise for two reasons:

1. Like in "Animal Farm" we will have not made any significant change in the value of sanctity of life.

2. Violence plays to Boss Hog's strength because it is the foundation of his power. He doesn't understand non-violence and just doesn't know how to defense it.

Peace

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 07:54 PM

Mr Happy,

I know what you are but I will not tell them.

wdyat24

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 09:40 PM

Yo, GUEST. If you really want to get your message across to people - if you really want them to take a look at the sources you've listed - you need to learn how to do clickable links. I, for one, don't cut and paste URL's unless it's something that I know for a fact I want to see. If you would post clickable links I might click on one or two just for the hell of it. Otherwise you're wasting your supposedly remarkable typing skills. I know it's sorta petty, but you're the one wanting me to look at something. You should make it as easy as possible for me to do it. Anyway, Max et al have made it so easy to make links in this forum now that it's just common courtesy.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 10:31 PM

I know it takes a lot of George-Jetson-like button-pushing stamina to copy and paste a link, but if we don't keep at it, it'll become a lost art. Besides, the complete URL often gives you a look at the destination, so you can decide if you want to look at a worldnetdaily or a newyorktimes article. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: leprechaun
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 10:42 PM

This evil conspiracy is getting a little old, and it's kind of long now. Maybe GUEST can come up with some new bird-brained theory so we can all keep bitch-slappin' him in new thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 10:48 PM

Here's an interesting alternative to the paranoia sites:

Center for Cooperative Research

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 11:19 PM

The last time you bitch-slapped anyone, lepercaun, was when you put on aftershave. But I'll dig around and see what other TRUTH I can hit y'all over the head with.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:15 AM

Bobert, I'm thinking you might want to take a really close look around the site I linked to in my last post.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 01:04 AM

Ha! Ha! I am getting to like you better all the time, GUEST! Keep it comin', I say. What do you think about the "mysterious white military plane" seen by several eyewitnesses in the vicinity of the Flight 93 crash on 911?

If you have not checked out that site Carol posted, do.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:18 AM

Thanks Carol! That site is filled with mysterious omens, and the research is awesome, and ongoing... I read for an hour, and I haven't even scratched the surface! You made my day... Gold star for you!




                                          *




ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:08 AM

In answer to the question posed in the title - No the FBI did not bomb the World Trade Centre in 1993.

CarolC - Your link re: Centre for Cooperative Research, serves as a good plot source for writers of fiction and an excellent school for spin doctors. Take any topic that they "comprehensively" cover and you will find the majority of points supposedly presented as facts are actually subjective opinion. The remained are generalisations based on comments taken out of their original context.

In short, what is presented by the Centre for Cooperative Research amounts to nothing more than hysterical crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:27 AM

CarolC:

Great site. I'll spend more time there as time permits. I do find it curious that two days after the tragic loss of the orbiter an investigative committee has all ready been organized and a chairperson appointed BUT we are still waiting for the same concerning the much more horrific events of 9/11. Hmmmmmmmmm?

And don't worry about T-Bird 'cause the T-ster wants all this stuff buried real deep. The deeper the better.

I'm sure there never was a whistle-blower that T liked because it meant that someone figured out just what stupid stuff the governemnt actually does that we either learn about 30 years later or never.

Just like the shuttle blowibng up> Do you think that the governemnt might even suggest that "privatization" might have played a role. Well, not this governemnt. Sure, they may pick out one subcontractor as the sacrifical lamb but the entire system is flawed. And do you think they are going to say "Hey, folks, the space program has been takne over by6 the military!" Heck no, they won't even though is is pretty well known. Or do yolu think they're going to admit to have nuclear material on board? Heck no. Though they clearly did because lots of the stuff is testing positive for radiation. "Hey, get away from that, sir. It might have petroleum propeelant on it! Yaeh, right.

No, they'll fry the smallest sub contrctor that they can but you can bet the Lockheed and Boeing won't take any heat...

So thanks fir the site...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 01:24 PM

Thanks Thomas, but JtS gets all the credit for finding that one. I'm just making it easy for people to find here in the Mudcat.

Take any topic that they "comprehensively" cover and you will find the majority of points supposedly presented as facts are actually subjective opinion. The remained are generalisations based on comments taken out of their original context.

You certainly have a right to your opinions, Teribus. Although how you can say that, while at the same time quoting the spin and lies coming out of the Bush administration and their propaganda machine as gospel truth is waaaaayyyy beyond my capability to comprehend.

Bobert, you're welcome. And I'll thank JtS for you, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:18 PM

From: Teribus - PM
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:08 AM

In answer to the question posed in the title - No the FBI did not bomb the World Trade Centre in 1993.

CarolC - Your link re: Centre for Cooperative Research, serves as a good plot source for writers of fiction and an excellent school for spin doctors. Take any topic that they "comprehensively" cover and you will find the majority of points supposedly presented as facts are actually subjective opinion. The remained are generalisations based on comments taken out of their original context.

In short, what is presented by the Centre for Cooperative Research amounts to nothing more than hysterical crap.

Here's what the author of the timeline has to say.

"I don't know exactly what happened on 9/11. I have my theories and hunches, but it's an extremely complicated plot, and there are a number of plausible explanations for part or all of the story's aspects. Also, I don't want to force my ideas down your throat. I'm using the timeline to draw attention to interesting stories that you may not have read. I have tried to let the stories speak for themselves, and reduce my voice as much as possible. When I do add my own comments, they are usually at the end of a summary and in italics. Plus they are almost always phrased as a question. I hope you come to your own conclusions."

He describes specific incidents then references a story in a main stream media source so that you can read it for yourself.

Hysterical crap indeed. The tone of the site is not hysterical at all.
Criticizing a source you haven't taken the trouble to examine is dismissive crap.
So it seems that you are one who is not above slinging some "crap" yourself.


All that being said.
It may be wise to realize that as compelling as it seems, these events described on the site are cherry picked from tens of thousands of news items and events. It would be easy for the author to omit things which would tend to alter his pattern.

Though the individual reports have merit when they stand alone, we should try to keep a healthly skepticism about their overall meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 05:31 PM

Oh me oh my...there's just TOO much information for me to make a decision. Sure Gorbachev said in '87 the coming 'fall of communisim' was going to be used to lull the Americans into a sense of complacency, but then he said he likes pancakes too, so what do I believe? Sure the Bushes were in business with Noriega and Hussein and are still in business with the bin Ladens, but GW wouldn't cry FALSE tears, would he?

The FBI blew up the tower in '93, and the wicked old Bush crew oversaw Sept. 11.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 06:02 PM

From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 05:31 PM


The FBI blew up the tower in '93, and the wicked old Bush crew oversaw Sept. 11.

Too late! We've read that alraedy on the Center for cooperative research site. Like I said, you're redundant.

G'bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 08:36 PM

Oh...we're playing peekaboo. You put your hands in front of your face and the world goes away. Tell that to the Paki mercenaries the Bushes are going to hire for five bucks a day to police your town because YOUR country's troops are all off fighting the 'evildoers'. God, you even buy the baby talk feed to you.

I missed Bush's speech about the astronauts, but I heard the BBC said he was laughing and slapping people on the back until someone trained an unsecured camera on him, then he saw the lense and turned on the waterworks. Like Clinton did at Ron Brown's funeral. Did Bush talk to you in baby talk again? Terms you can understand?

THE BUSHES RUN THE WORLD'S LARGEST COCAINE CARTEL AND JUST EXPANDED INTO AFGHANI OPIUM. THEY HAD TO BRING DOWN THE WTC TO DO IT, BUT THEY GOT THE JOB DONE. NOW THEY'RE GOING TO WRECK AMERICA SO WE CAN TAKE OUR PLACE AMONG THE REST OF THE THIRD-WORLD COUNTRIES. Peekaboo.

Subject: RE: BS: Did the FBI bomb the WTC in '93?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 10:34 PM

Yep I read that to.
Yawn......