Singaround etiquette

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 11:54 PM

When you mix folks who are constantly furthering their careers with those who are just singing for fun, strange things can happen. You sometimes feel the rest of the room is just being used as audience and for rehearsal/practice. What was in three young folks minds that night, you'd have to ask them.

And I have many times watched the phenomenon of certain 'known' performers coming in, condescending to do one or two, then either leaving or going off in the corner to talk..etc. I usually get the impression that they simply do not care to listen to amateurs or are bored unless they are in the spotlight............
   I also know wonderful exceptions to this: professional musicians who will sing with anyone, anywhere and pay polite attention when others are singing. One of the best I ever met was Tom Paley. He just blended into the group and made music. Our own Rick Fielding was another- he simply cared what others did.....and Jed Marum, the several times I met him, made an effort to acknowlege and share, rather than just performing. I could think of more if it weren't so late.

As to the side issue of several members of a group using the opportunity to 'do' several of their group's songs....it IS like Rita and Dick G. said.....you can tell. It can feel natural, or it can feel like a setup.
   Sadly, when egos and self-interest get too wound up, people can lose a sense of what 'fits' in the group. I suspect that everyone reading has watched someone who has himself 'primed' for one certain song, and ruins the mood of a sing by doing it no matter what.

There is probably a PhD in Psychology/Sociology for a good study of "Group Dynamics in Folk Music Singarounds"....I've watched 'em for 40 years now, and seen everything from rank amateurs to world class, and sometimes it ain't purty...*wry grin*


My, how I do run on.....

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 09:20 AM

What Bill and Rita said. It is the "feel" or "spirit" of the thing. Some people are always trying to promote themselves or their group while others join in wholeheartedly.

If you're lucky enough to get Ramskyte in your singaround, then each of them will sing his own songs rather than stuff from the group's act. It is an individual solo performance, other group members join in the chorus along with the rest of us.

And last year there was a very quiet singaround on the last day at Upton with about 8 or 10 people. Tom Lewis walked into the pub and just stood at the bar having a quiet drink and listening - he had to be in the final concert in about an hour's time. We asked if he would like to sing, and he pulled out of the air a nice quiet reflective song that he had written but not performed for many years: tailor-made to the feel of the afternoon. And he stayed and joined us in the Farewell Shanty to close the session. If only more "pro's" had Tom's attitude.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: Midchuck
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 09:40 AM

If you're lucky enough to get Ramskyte in your singaround, then each of them will sing his own songs rather than stuff from the group's act. It is an individual solo performance, other group members join in the chorus along with the rest of us.

Same with Woodchucks' Revenge...

Peter.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 10:34 AM

Midchuck-
as an extreme case, imagine the Mormon Tabernacle Choir at a singaround, each member demanding a turn an then producing a pre-arranged choral gem.

Not that I've ever accused Woodchuck's Revenge of this kind of mike hogging.Or of pre-arrangement, for that matter.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: Midchuck
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 11:02 AM

"Not that I've ever accused Woodchuck's Revenge of this kind of mike hogging. Or of pre-arrangement, for that matter."

Watch yourself. You can be replaced. There's a lot of wierd old guys around...me, bigchuck, Kendall....

The fact that you're right is no excuse.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 11:23 AM

I think I'll do a little "Devil's advocate" work here:

Suppose, for a moment, a group of say three young aspiring performers, and they work HARD at perfecting a limited repertoire. Outside of that repertoire maybe they're not too sure of themselves--or there may not even BE an "outside of that repertoire".

Now, as I say, they've worked hard, and do their rehearse thing pretty well, and are put in a featured position. When they're done with their set, they might be really unsure of themselves, and reluctant to show their feet of clay, so they think it's a good idea to vanish before they get exposed on stuff they are not really up on.

What do we say to that sort of scenario? Of course they should make polite noises before leaving, but remember I'm positing young, maybe adolescent people here, whose social graces may not be equal to their insecurities.

Any thoughts?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 11:33 AM

what about learning from others? Or just the enjoyment of listening to others? participation in what is essentially a social occasion?

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: Peace
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 11:41 AM

It's pretty sad when ya need an etiquette book to trade songs and do a few harmonies.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:16 PM

The best experience I can recall was at Sidmouth 2003, when, on the Monday afternoon, Dougie McLean wandered into the Bedford, and sat down to listen. After about half an hour he was asked if he would like to perform, and borrowed a violin. He then asked all the musicians to join him, and produced a virtuoso 15 minute set of traditional tunes with enthusiastic accompaniment from every instrument in the place. He stayed for over two hours to listen to the rest of us. During a break in the proceedings he approached me, said that he had really enjoyed my comic songs, and asked if I had recordings of my material, as he would like to buy one. I said I would be very happy to give him a copy of my CD, but he insisted on paying for it. He then thanked everyone for allowing him to join the session, and left. A real gentleman, and an example of what singaround etiquette ought to be.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: The Barden of England
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:52 PM

Couldn't agree with you more Don, that was a great afternoon. If I remember he also asked if he could 'nick' the odd one or two! We are really lucky in The Bedford in Sidmouth Week as most of the featured artists join in, or sit and listen. I don't have to push eitiqette in there, it just happens and is organic.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 03:01 PM

To add to an earlier comment-I, too have watched Tom Lewis come in,(at Mystic Seaport 2 years ago)be recognized, asked to sing, and do a nice number that just fit, then listen to others.

As to Uncle Dave's rhetorical question...I sure wish some of those young people were reading Mudcat so they would realize how controversial their behavior was. If they had a reason, they really should have said.
I have been in workshops (like at the FSGW Getaway) where folks get over committed and promise to do a song to help out a friend, but are expected in another workshop in 10 minutes, so ask to go out of turn and excuse themselves politely.....no problem with this.

All I hope from threads like this is that there is some subliminal conciousness raising among those who 'might' possibly have been less than thoughtful once or twice.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 03:38 PM

There are any number of good and bad reasons for pickin' and runnin'; consider this scenario:

Semi-shy occasional performer decides to venture onstage at the nearest available opportunity (open-mike, singaround, or whatever) ~ for the first time ever, perhaps, or the first time in years, or maybe the first time after relocating to a new city.

Performer welcomes the support of sig-other and/or close friend(s), etc., and they attend the event together.

Said support group or person does not share performer's serious interest in folk music; they're interested in the singer (perhaps very interested, indeed) but not necessarily in the song.

Performer takes his/her turn and does a number or two.

Entourage says, "OK, that's that, let's go now"...

Performer may well wish to stick around, listen to others, make new friends, etc., but bows to pressure and exits.

(Possible subtext: significant other doesn't want performer to make new friends, or perhaps to connect with a specific potential "new friend.")

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 07:27 PM

It's lovely to hear the stories of Dougie McLean etc. Where muso's remember where they have come from ... long may it remain but for every one of those times there is a number of times when 'stars' have said feck off but i'm a dreamer and i like the idea of the stories and the good times

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette
From: kendall
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 09:16 PM

There are people who make a habit of showing up a few minutes before they go on, then split right after. Damned rude, I say.
Then there are those who wait until their turn before they tune.
Then there are those who sing 45 verse ballads in a large group.
And last, but not least, the ones who "noodle" on their instrument while someone is singing. Or they rap on them out of time.
Oh, and the most irritating, the ones who insist on playing along when they don't know the tune, and are half a beat behind in the wrong chord.
Don't get me started!