BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?

Subject: BS: How doe your culture do obituaries ?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 19 May 05 - 11:48 AM

Recently, after a good long life of 90 years, my father-in-law passed away.

In writing the obituary, with some help from her siblings, my wife decided - because of length concerns - to mention just his children by name, and leave out the names of his brothers & sisters, the grandkids and great-grandkids - some 23 people.

At the funeral one of her uncles really laid a guilt trip on her about how hurt he was that he wasn't mentioned. He complained enough that my wife put a correction in the local newspaper mentioning the rest of the siblings. I can see this is going to be a sore point in the family for a while.

My question is - what is the customary format for an obituary in your neck of the woods ?

Subject: RE: BS: How doe your culture do obituaries ?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 19 May 05 - 11:50 AM

Oops!!   That thread header should be "How does..." !!!

Subject: RE: BS: How doe your culture do obituaries ?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 05 - 11:56 AM

As far as I know it is up to the family. no "standard" that I've noticed

Subject: RE: BS: How doe your culture do obituaries ?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 May 05 - 12:07 PM

Les,

Obituaries are such a great source of geneological information that it really is a good idea to mention those siblings and the spouses of children. In fact, you can tell the obituaries of someone who has been involved in doing genological research because when theirs appear they tend to hit on those lifetime markers that will leave information for future researchers. I don't always see grandchildren named by name, though it does happen, especially if the deceased is quite elderly and the grandchildren are adults.

The thing that seems to vary from community to community is the cause of death information. I read my hometown (Everett, WA) paper online, and always read the obituaries. The cause of death is usually mentioned, and I think this is a useful piece of information. In actuarial terms, someone researching in the future my be able to collect regional information from obituaries that will lead to more formal research (medical records for a neighborhood, city, region, etc.). This is a long-shot, perhaps, but I suspect not unheard of. Anyway, down here (Fort Worth, TX) where I'm living now they're more reticient about listing the cause of death. It's somehow "distasteful" in the sense of general Southern sensibilities, to mention something so untidy as the cause of death.

One practice that (thankfully) went away a long time ago was the habit of listing the deceased home address in the obituary. You can guess what would happen when one and all could read that John Q. Public who lived at 1234 Main Street in Our Fair City was going to be buried at 10am on Thursday morning. Family and neighbors were all going to be at the funeral, leaving the house vulnerable to burglary. I've seen addresses listed a couple of times recently, and have to wonder at the sense of the person who published the obituary. Perhaps it was someone who was elderly themselves and stuck with that obsolete practice. You can learn a lot from reading the obituaries.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: How doe your culture do obituaries ?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 May 05 - 12:34 PM

In our mountain, edge-of-Appalachia culture, how we handle these is that the FD (funeral director) calls on the bereaved and, in the course of making arrangments, obits are discussed. The various ways the local papers handle these is pretty widely known, because ours is a community of elders and there are many passings as a normal part of life. In a largely non-verbally-articulated way, the FD gets a sense of what is wanted and s/he interviews the necessary details out of the bereaved; the FD then organizes it all for submission to the papers chosen. People are close here, and know each others' lives fairly well, so the FD usually knows what questions to ask to start the recalling of details. Hearing them out is part of the loving care of people that is a high community value here, even when some of the details will actually appear in print; it's not rushed or money-driven, this listening.

My husband presides at a lot of the funerals, and one really sweet one recently included a request from the sons of the departed (and their male cousins) to raise a beer to Dad in the context of the funeral service-- seems it was Dad's lifelong custom when the boys would gather for a visit, past a certain age, to crack open beers all around for a toast to being together again. Whether Dad was the visitor or the boys were, there was always this all-men-present ritual. Well, Hardi was willing, but due to the family's ecumenical makeup, with several folks quite conservative, it was determined that doing this "One Last Toast" right IN the funeral might upset some people; loving their extended family other as they do, the boys decided not to go ahead. So it happened back at the house, afterwards, and was very moving.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: How doe your culture do obituaries ?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 May 05 - 12:46 PM

Our obituaries were written by family members, as we would have done anyway, but circumstances would have led to it even if we hadn't planned to do it ourselves. I wasn't impressed with the writing skills of the woman who was taking care of our needs at the funeral home when I handled my father's arrangements, so I went straight to the newspaper, as did my sister when she handled mom's estate. I suspect that mom wrote much of her own obituary anyway, and Katy formalized it when she took it to the paper. We didn't do funerals for either one, but got together later at informal gatherings of friends and family, potlucks included. There was a song circle at Dad's event (quite a few Mudcatters were there). So it may be our general rejection of the funeral industry (both were cremated and neither was interested in enriching a funeral home, especially when chapels would be involved and neither of them practiced a formal religion).

More and more I see people taking it out of the hands of the church and the business end of things and doing a "celebration of life" at a convenient park or meeting hall or home.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: How doe your culture do obituaries ?
From: Emma B
Date: 19 May 05 - 12:50 PM

An elderly gentleman shuffles into a newspaper office and asks if he can place a piece in the obituaries column.
"No problem Sir", said the young girl behind the desk, "That'll be a pound per word"
Nodding slowly the old man writes "Doris is Dead" on a piece of paper and hands it back.
"Is that all you want to put in?" asks the girl.
The pensioner looks at her with sad eyes, "I'm afraid I only have three pounds" he says and shuffles out of the door.
The girl feeling sorry for the old man, says she will go and speak to the editor. "Wait, - I'll see if we can work something out"
Moments later she returns smiling, "Good News" she says, "the editor says you can have another 3 pounds worth of words at no extra cost"
Smiling gratefully, the old man takes another piece of paper and thinks for a moment.
Shakily he writes, "Doris is Dead, Metro for Sale"

dedicated to the memory of a friend who died suddenly a few days ago aged 52

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 19 May 05 - 12:52 PM

I don't think there are general rules, but I do find it weird that anyone would take offence at not being mentioned in someone's obituary. The obit, after all, is there to describe the deceased and his/her importance in others' lives. The names of relatives are simply at the end, signature-like. I generally take the names at the bottom to mean that it is they who composed the obit. If his brother had not been involved, no reason why he should have been mentioned. He could have put his hand in his pocket and write a separate obituary, or come to your wife and ask to be included (it is not uncommon for multiple obituaries to appear for the same person, written by different relatives/friends etc).

As the uncle did neither, he has no right to feel aggrieved and does his own brother's memory a disservice by grumbling about it.

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 05 - 01:53 PM

Many big city papers in the US will not run an obituary unless it is placed by a funeral director, or the death certificate is presented.

That said, you can write the obituary yourself and give it to the funeral director, or you can "fill in the blanks".

I think naming people in the obituary DOES matter, and a lot to some people. What else would be the point of publishing one, if not to give a list of names. People use the information in the obits to get hold of family members, that sort of thing. I wouldn't worry too much about geneaological research--yeah, it's nice to have. But obits are also often wrong.

In my mom's obit (and it mattered a whole lot to her and her contemporaries), we listed she was "preceded in death by...her parents (by name), her siblings (by name along with their spouses' names--all deceased), and survived by her children (by name along with their spouses' names) and "X grandchildren & X great-grandchildren (who were not named).

That would be pretty much standard, ie "preceded in death by..." and then whomever you want to list, followed by "survived by..." and then whomever you want to list.

Often, only the closest relatives are mentioned by name, ie the husband/wife and children, and then the "preceded/survived by..." can say his/her parents, siblings and their spouses, grand & great-grand kids/nieces/nephews, etc.

I think it really depends upon how close the person in question was to the deceased. If there was a favorite brother, for instance, who was very close to the deceased, then I would put in their name (and other siblings too, to be consistent--it looks tacky if you don't include everyone in a category, IMO).

Don't know if that helps you or not.

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 05 - 01:58 PM

Also, most papers will gladly provide you with the obit guidelines, and there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of hits at google on how to write an obit.

google search for "sample obituaries"

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: open mike
Date: 19 May 05 - 03:32 PM

i agree with the obit as a genealogy tool
as a genealogy researcher, i know it is
important to know what COUNTY (in U.S.)
the person was born and/or died in, as
those vital recoeds are USUALLY kept in
county recorder's office. In some states
the vital statistics office is a state
office, and those states do not often
realize that other areas do this by
counties. Graveyards and mortuaries are
great sources of info, and some take that
job very seriously and keep and share theese
records. One cemetary (where my parents
are buried) spoke of installing a kiosk
with computer for using for family tree
research. They had a form to fill out for
next of kin to give information about the
deseased, relatives, etc.

When my Uncle died, the family gathered at the
hotel in preparation for the funeral borrowed
the typewriter from teh front desk in order to
compose the obit, and we gathered memroies and
info from everyone in attendance, and it was a
great ritual and good way to put down the facts
of his life. We all remembered something different.
We made a story about him longer than would be
published for our own use and memories.

The newspaper that printed the obit for my dad
saw the part about him working for the Army Corps
of engineers (as a civilian) and printed a flag
in front of his name as they do for military vets.
Sort of a comical mistake...as he was not in the
military, but was given a flag symbol any way.

We published the obits for my parents in the town
where they lived for 40 years as well as the one
where they were for the last 5 years, so people
who knew them there would know.

The combination of a death certificate and an obit
often contain many clues about family tree info.
Due to identity theft, Death Certificates are getting
more difficult to obtain. In Calif. you must prove that
you are directly related before you can purchase one. It
used to be easy to obtain this data online. This makes it
difficult for researchers to help others by locating this
information for them. I am in a group of volunteers called
Random Acts of Genealogical Research...who will photograph
gravestones, look up newspaper obits and death certificates
as well as marriage and birth documents, too. I have had
others do this for me in areas where my raltives have been
born, married or died. In past years churches used to be
the place where this info was kept. and in family bibles.

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 05 - 03:45 PM

I do genealogical research too, but that isn't the purpose of the obituary. The purpose of the obituary is to notify people connected to the deceased that they have died, to whom they may send condolences, and to get information about final disposition of the body (ie funerals, memorial services, etc.)

Death is a very emotional time, and obituaries are very expensive to run nowadays, especially in large urban areas. While the idea to write a considerable obituary is a lovely one, it is probably better off done as an online obituary, or as a keepsake for family members. We made a CD of our family photos for my mom's funeral, and people loved receiving that as a memento.

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: open mike
Date: 19 May 05 - 03:57 PM

The newspapers' reluctance to print obits
without certification comes from requests
to print false obits by people either playing
jokes or for nefarious purposes.

i guess that someone WANTED someone dead,
so had it printed up! or did it as a prank.

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: JudyB
Date: 19 May 05 - 04:37 PM

When my father-in-law passed away a couple of years ago, we wrote up what we wanted in the obituary and e-mailed it to the addresses given for the local paper and the regional daily paper. (The funeral director knew we were writing the obituary and we included info about who was handling the details in case the paper needed to confirm the death.) The local paper either called or e-mailed back within a fairly short time asking for a few more details and suggesting some things we might want to add. We heard nothing from the big paper.

The local paper ran the obituary, and an article as he was well known in the area. We called the big paper, found (from the recording on the phone line) that obituaries were handled by the advertising department and that they could only be called weekdays between 1 and 5. We called between 1 and 5 and got voice mail where we left messages. We e-mailed again, asking them to confirm that they had received the obituary and that they would run it on the day we requested and saying we'd be happy to provide a credit card or whatever was necessary to make sure it ran on the day we wanted it. (He had friends in other parts of the state and the weekend paper is statewide.)

The weekend came - no obituary, and after 5 days of trying we still had been unable to talk to a real person. I was not happy. On Monday my husband actually reached someone in the advertising department who said (more or less) that they had never received anything from us but if we wanted to give them our credit card number and send them what we wanted printed, they'd print it as long as our credit card was good. They were much more focused on checking the credit card than the details of the obituary. When Charlie reported on that call, I went ballistic - how much effort does it take to pretend to have a little sympathy?

Fortunately I knew (casually through work) a senior reporter there, so I called him and told him I knew it wasn't his department but I was upset and I wanted to know how to complain effectively. He called me back in a couple of minutes with the direct line to the managing editor, and assured me that it's important to her that the paper have a good public image. She did actually seem to care, and once I'd told the story to her, called my husband and apologized for the callous way he was treated. They ran the obituary again the following weekend for no additional charge. I have no idea if the staff there has gone to sensitivity training, but I like to think they're a little more supportive these days.

I mention this because as more newspapers begin to look at obituaries as revenue rather than news, it's likely to be harder to find the sort of caring professionals some folks have mentioned.

By the way, additional information about his siblings was one of the things the local paper suggested we add.

   JudyB

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 19 May 05 - 04:51 PM

In this case the deed is done, and the correction added in the obituary section. And, as many of you suggest, the funereal director is the one who placed it, after the obit was written by the family.

For genealogical reasons I do appreciate that a number of items should be included. When my mom died I included the date, year, city and state, who the parents were, and cause of death.

Several yellowed old newspaper clippings in my genealogy files from the teens and twenties tell of the deaths of lesser known family members - they say "Joe Blow was killed in a mine accident last Thursday..." no month, date, or year ! And the newspaper heading with the clipping was not included. It drives you crazy because you can only guestimate when the person died and was buried.

I can imagine that in the eastern United States the counties are much more important than here in the west. The towns are fewer and farther apart here, so a mention of the town is usually all that you see in the obits.

Stilly River Sage - that's interesting about various areas not wanting to include the cause of death - I can sort of understand it, but it's sure nice to have the basic info to construct a family medical history for yourself or your kids, etc.

I find that where the most errors are made are in the death certificates - both for cause of death, which is sometimes guessed at by the official filling it out, and for maiden names of the deceased's mother, etc. When an elderly grieving spouse or sibling is under pressure to supply little-known family info there is often some real misinformation that gets into the so-called "official" record. One such certificate has led to some real inaccuracies in one side of my family tree - and some zealous genalogist has picked it up and published it on the web !

Anyway, it's interesting to hear how others deal with this. The great thing is, when we go, we don't have to worry a damn about it ! :)

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 May 05 - 05:19 PM

I don't remember now if I had to provide a death certificate when I went down to the paper, but I had one, so if they asked it wasn't a problem. I found a good photo of dad also. It wasn't a real long obituary, and I don't remember running it more than a couple of days, so mine wasn't necessarily a model. It was too far back for it it be online now.

My mother's first cousin died in October of 2003 and hers was excellent. This link should take you to Olive Maurstad's obit. Oct. 8 and 9, 2003 in the paper. They did what many of them do--ran the full obit for a couple of days then truncated it to just the first paragraph or so and the time and place of the memorial.

Those who don't think genological information is important obviously don't need to include it, but it should not be dismissed as unimportant or frivolous. Just try finding information about someone who died a long time ago. Look through the newspapers or microfiche for the obituary and you'll find them to be treasure troves. Accuracy can be an issue, when people write these in times of stress. But better to have something than nothing, and hopefully most of it will be correct.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 May 05 - 05:59 PM

People around here are well aware of the risk of burglary. When a friend of mine died last summer (not an extremely close friend) my wife and I "babysat" the deceased's house during the first half of the wake, and another couple stayed there during the second half. (I use the term "wake" very loosely. I really mean "visitation" at the funeral home.) My son, age 17, who didn't really know the deceased, stayed at the house during the funeral. I don't think the deceased's home address was mentioned in the newspaper, but it would have been easy enough to find out by anyone who was determined.

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 19 May 05 - 06:19 PM

Interesting how two folks can come from the same part of the country and have different thoughts on how obits are handled.

I live in North Central Pennsylvania in a small community. It is not uncommon for a friend or relative to write the obituary that will appear in the local paper. Just a month ago our family lost a wonderful friend to cancer. She wrote her own obituary. I can't imagine doing it, but she did.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 May 05 - 07:29 PM

heloo, in my country [englad] we bury the ded people in the ground , this is called burying, or you could burn them, this called cremating.
All the ded people in my family got buried [my dad, grandads etc etc] exept for my grandma, she didint wont to get buried , so we burnt her.
she was scared of been eaten by worms, in that case you should burn them [cremating] its a bit cheeper anyway.
if you burn your ded family, you can get the ashes, and you can keep them, ie put them in the cupboard, or on top of tv or something,
or you could throw them somwere, like in the sea or something, up to you.

hope this helps.


jOhn

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 May 05 - 07:53 PM

El Greko, what you describe is a separate thing from the obit, and is not free. An obituary is free (in the areas in which I have lived), and the newspaper has a form one can follow, at least loosely. Except in case of error or omission I haven't seen an obituary run more than one day.

The advertisment type of memorial is usually published some time later and is, as you say, signed by the grieving family. An obit is not signed.

The ones I am familiar with usually detail spouse, children, surriving parents and siblings with mates like "Terry (Amy), Seattle, Kris (John), Chicago...". Nieces, nephews, grandchildren and ggrandchildren are usually either "numerous" or numbered as "26 grandchildren and 4 greatgrandchildren."

This is in the US, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: JudyB
Date: 19 May 05 - 08:26 PM

Ebbie, all that's free in Maine's largest two papers is a notice with name, town, age, date of death, time and place of visitation & services. You want more, you pay. And according to their guidelines, the paper I had the problems with now only accepts paid obituaries from funeral homes, so if you want to write your own, you then have to get the funeral home to submit it. It's a sad state of affairs.
   JudyB

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 May 05 - 08:57 PM

i think my uncle peat got burnt, not sure really.

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 May 05 - 09:04 PM

they painted him orange, and my dad was crying [wehn uncle pete was dying], he got a motobike ccident, then got on life supoort machine, theen we switcved it off, and then my dad was crying like a big woman softy southener.

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: Dave Swan
Date: 19 May 05 - 09:31 PM

Last year I wrote my father's obit, which we also ran as a paid announcement in case the obit editor should choose to edit a line or two. It wasn't long, we just didn't want someone to screw with it.

The afternoon I struggled with the obit's content I took a break and went to a bookshop looking for a laugh. Spying the work of a favorite author, I bought a copy of Carl Hiaasen's Basket Case. The protagonist of Basket Case is an obit writer. So much for getting my head out of the game. I read the book anyway and laughed like hell.

A couple of months later we appeared on the same public radio show as Hiaasen. I told him the story of Basket Case and my dad's obit. Hiaasen got teary, then laughed like hell, then we both laughed.

It's strange territory. I don't knpw what any of the rules are. You just get through the best you can.

D

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 May 05 - 09:40 PM

Wow, Judy B. That is a new development to me, and not a good one.

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 May 05 - 02:52 AM

My mom died in December in Florida, at the age of 82. She was born in Detroit and lived there until 1958, so my dad wanted to put an obituary notice in the Detroit News, along with one in the local Florida paper. I don't know if he did or not. I have the impression that my parents' generation is much fussier about the contents of an obituarly notice, so I think I'd check with somebody from that generation before publishing the obituary for somebody that age. My generation seems much less concerned about such things, so I'd say that "anything goes" for us.

I admit that I check the Sacramento obits every day. Once or twice a month or more, I'll see a name I know; and it's nice to be aware of the passing of old acquaintances.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: open mike
Date: 20 May 05 - 04:00 AM

Why is it that each year i live,
more and more people i know die?

a song that is discusseed in the threads
My get up and go has got up and went..
has a line about reading the obits and
if you don't find your name, you shake off your wits
and live for another day or some thing like that!

here is the line:
I get up each morning and dust off my wits,
Open the paper and read the obits
If I'm not there, I know I'm not dead
So I eat a good breakfast and go back to bed.

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: akenaton
Date: 20 May 05 - 04:38 AM

My all time favourite, to a friend who was a poet and socialist..

GLASGOW HERALD...

"Freddy never made it out of the gutter, never even reaching the dizzy heights of abject poverty"

This was intended as the supreme compliment, and F would have seen it as such...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: How does your culture do obituaries ?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 May 05 - 07:50 PM

Ebby, it isn't very common to find any free death notices (obituaries) any more. They're typically handled by the classified staff on larger papers. I worked at a weekly paper in Central Texas for a couple of years and I wrote a lot of obituaries. The information was sometimes provided by the funeral home, and was there to be improved on. At times I was called and people would dictate what they wanted then ask for help. Others had it all written and that was all that was needed. All paid for obituaries.

If we ran an article about a deceased community member that was because it was significant news, and it was treated like any other news story. There were a couple of times when photos I'd taken of community members and run in news stories were later requested by the family when the person died and they remembered it was a good photo. That was always a sad task, to followup on people I knew and reassign their photos.

SRS