Ewan MacColl's accent

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 04:11 PM

"I think that what you are seeing is outrage stemming from disbelief, that someone who had such a weight of positive characteristics, ... "

No offence intended to WLD, and likewise no intent to be patronizing, but my impression was that he was at least as outraged by a critic's unfavorable comments about one of his own recordings. Which is understandable. But that seemed the logical explanation of his explosion of passion in the midst of what had become a civil discussion.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 06:04 AM

I am not scottish - part irish/gypsy - but mostly english.

if that explains anything.

Ewan MacColl was a creative person, who did his best. Who did what seemed possible. Who made his performances as vivid as possible for his audiences. I am willing to concede that in doing that he may have altered material to his own purposes. But he did his damndest.

My point was that he was in there fighting for a place for folk music in our community. These nit picking denigrations of him - his accent, his war record, his failure to treat old songs as though they were some sort of thing in a museum not to be altered.....

If you really can't see why they piss me off, I hardly know what to say. these are accusations you could, and some people do, level at anyone in folk music - apart from the war record.

Look at the folk club movement. It is in a parlous state. The seeds of the destructive factionalism that has wrought so much damage, are in your approach to the subject of folk music. This mans accent is not pure enough, that man's guitar style.....there will be no end, unless you end it by not sniping at creative effort.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,SPoll
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 06:51 AM

I was born in Tyneside - I have no such accent and cannot reproduce it convincingly.
Moved to Glasgow when I was 4 - don't speak any of the several Glasgow dialects. (Many Glasgow accents, depending on home neighbourhood!)
Was sent toschool in Ayrshire (wartime) but didn't 'get' that accent either.
Moved to Hampshire (parental preparations there for D-Day) Sent to a 'good' school & after considerable malicious teasing I learned to speak "Standard English" i.e. cut-glass accent. But still had a Scottish lilt.
Married & lived in Derbyshire - didn't get that accent but some of my children speak with it. To some extent, anyway
Now live in Scotland - revetrted to scottishness to some extent.

BUT my father was Australian from New South Wales - so at home I spoke With an Aussie lilt -
BUT my mother belonged to Edinburgh - Accent referred to as "High Pan"
BUT my hisband, born in Belfast, of Welsh Father, worked mostly in London area - - -

Is it surprising that I speak to other people more-or-less with a similar accent as theirs ?   [Not Lanc-ey Dawsit or Burminum though]
I'm NOT trying to do this - it just comes naturally.   tough English people think I seak with a Scots accent and Scots think I speak with english...etc.
THE ACCENT UNCONSCIOUSLY USED IS THE APPROPRIATE NE FOR THE SETTING

This is what McColl/ Dylan/ McCarthy - - and SO many others do and did.

This thread is much too long and going nowhere now
Let's call a halt to it ??

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 07:19 AM

"This thread is much too long and going nowhere now
Let's call a halt to it ??"

I think Jim has put the subject to bed as far as the narrow topic of Ewan MacColl's accent is concerned - thank you Jim. I entirely agree with WLD, and with Jim's contributions to the other thread, that personal (and often politically motivated) attacks on MacColl get us nowhere. But we *should* be able to discuss his *work* - hugely important and sometimes controversial as it is - impartially, without anyone throwing a wobbler.

The parallel sub-thread about how modern singers should interpret their material (particularly, but not exclusively, traditional songs)is something we should all be considering carefully for every song we sing, and something that MacColl himself believed was very important. There's plenty more discussion mileage in that one, and perhaps it will surface again sometime, in another thread with a less emotive title.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 07:50 AM

Thread title? "ewen MacColl's accent"

What was his accent? "Scottish"

Why? "Because he was Scottish, just like his parents and grandparents"

That's that.

_________________

I look forward to seeing you on the other thread Brian et al

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:01 AM

I'm not outraged by the criticism of me using an American accent. I'm far too used to it to feel anything much - except mild annoyance.

Its the way I sing. I've been doing it for 30 years . its the way I think it should be done, and I am entitled not to be discounted because of it. as is ewan maccoll.

As Eugene Delacroix said, to be an artist at twenty is to be twenty. to still be an artist at forty is to be an artist.

I am 57.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,erictheorange
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:45 AM

>>GUEST,lox
>>
>>Thread title? "ewen MacColl's accent"
>>
>>What was his accent? "Scottish"
>>
>>Why? "Because he was Scottish, just like his parents and grandparents"
>>
>>That's that.

Not exactly true is it!

The whole point of the original question was that he wasn't Scottish, but rather of Scottish descent. He was born & raised in Salford, England. Despite this he sang in a Scottish accent and adopted a (seemingly) more Scottish name. I had seen remarks on the internet alluding to this being an affectation so I asked for clarification.

I also think that if you'd bothered to read this thread, the whole original question dealing both with his singing accent and why he changed his name was answered adequately about 2 weeks and 140 posts ago!

eto

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 09:04 AM

Likewise, if you had bothered to pay proper attention yourself you would have seen me contributing frequently to it over most of it's course.

You would have seen that Prior to my first post, it had only been clearly established that his mother was Scottish and spoke in a scottish accent.

">> Jim Carroll wrote
>>
>>He picked up his accent from his parents - his mother had
>>a broad Scots accent until the day she died; also he was
>>surrounded by Scots people throughout his childhood and
>>early youth.
>>While he had a Salford speaking accent, according to his
>>contemporaries the one he used for singing was that he
>>got from his mother Betsy and other members of his family

Thankyou Jim - that answers that question."

You would also have read my post:

"From: GUEST,lox
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 04:04 PM "

In which I explained, from personal experience, how I know that having 2 scottish parents and growing up in a scottish home makes any attempt to undermine his authenticity in this respect a crock of shit.

So yes, "exactly true".

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 09:30 AM

Sure enough. But behind that is the bigger question.

If an artist feels thats the way he wants to express himself, why should some other character feel free to say - that's the wrong way to do it.

Its like if someone said to Van Gogh, sod that mate - you should be doing that sunflower as a clay sculpture.

Its like that annoying Harry Enfield character - I don't think you meant to do that,.... yes I did, and Ewan MacColl caertainly did it the way he meant to do it.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,erictheorange
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 10:11 AM

GuestLox

With all due respect. My question was not should he sing in such an accent, nor whether he should regard himself as a Scot. Rather it how does somebody brought up in Salford default to a Scottish accent. Simple question - no agenda.

>>You would have seen that Prior to my first post, it had only been clearly established that his mother was Scottish and spoke in a scottish accent.

I think you'll find that my original post mentioned that BOTH his parents were Scots.

You may belive you provided some answers to this question but I think at best all you provided was some perspective from your life experiences. I asked some factual questions, and through Jim Carroll and Eric the Red got what seem to be decent factual answers.

For some reason you seem to have decided to revert this thread back to the original question for no reason, a question which has long been answered, while the rest seem to be having a reasonably intelligent discussion about decisions they make on how to sign regional songs. Do you have an additional point to add to the original question?

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 10:31 AM

Back to "Ewan MacColl's accent." What I understand from the Scots on this thread is that Scottish opinion is divided about whether it sounded essentially believable or obviously fake.

I suppose that makes any opinion thoroughly subjective.

But be it noted that to non-Scots he sounded like the real thing.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 10:38 AM

Nationality affects you. Of course it does. You look to your parents for how to think about life, and if they come from somewhere different from where you live - they will look at it differently from the indigent population.

And even to the third generation.

I sometimes find myself asking why my parents and grandparents acted and said the things they did - how they arrived at certain attitudes.

Someone once said to me, two Irish grandparents .... of course you're bloody Irish, you're just in denial.....

Being Scottish was not something Ewan MacColl could avoid. whatever his place of birth and where he grew up.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 11:53 AM

In actual fact, one's accent becomes stronger the more isolated you are in some cases. You become aggressive about how different you and your family are, than those surrounding you. Thats how it happens - did to me.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,erictheorange
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:23 PM

>>Lighter
>>
>>Back to "Ewan MacColl's accent." What I understand from the
>>Scots on this thread is that Scottish opinion is divided
>>about whether it sounded essentially believable or obviously fake.
>>
>>I suppose that makes any opinion thoroughly subjective.
>>
>>But be it noted that to non-Scots he sounded like the real thing.

Personally I wouldn't dream of singing in a Scots accent even though my mother was born there and her father was a Scot born and bred. I don't feel Scots. Then again I have a friend who was born in England of English parents and English grandparents who is most definitely Welsh because he spent from 6 months old until age 22 in Wales.

If Ewan MacColl thought of himself as a Scot then he was - and even if when he sang in a "Scots" accent it came out sounding Irish, Mancunian, Russian or Outer Mongolian I don't think it really matters.
I think that it is reasonable however to ask why a Salford lad would sing in such an accent and change his name to a "more Scottish" one (a question suitably answered).

FWIW I think his accent sounds "faux Scots" but then at that time there were quite a few born & bred Scots who modified their accents, mainly to sound more like an English or American view of what a Scots accent is.


>>weelittledrummer
>>
>>Nationality affects you. Of course it does. You look to
>>your parents for how to think about life, and if they
>>come from somewhere different from where you live - they
>>will look at it differently from the indigent population.
>>
>>And even to the third generation.
>>
>>I sometimes find myself asking why my parents and
>>grandparents acted and said the things they did - how
>>they arrived at certain attitudes.
>>

This is a bit of an over-simplification. Is your parents National identity the same as yours? Certainly your parents & grandparents have an influence on your cultural identity, but then so do your peers, your language, your economic situation, your religion, your politics, your education, the culture you grow up in, etc.

>>Someone once said to me, two Irish grandparents .... of
>>course you're bloody Irish, you're just in denial.....
>>

Of course, if you've got two Irish grandparents and two Japanese ones, but you grow up in Spain as a Spanish citizen, speaking Spanish with Spanish friends and a Spanish education, you're not necessarily going to act, think & feel very Irish at all - nor are you probably going to sound very Irish when you sing their songs. If you then changed your name from Akira Kurosawa to Cahir O'Doherty and started singing Irish folk songs in a Spanish/Japanese/Irish accent it's not really surprising if some might be a bit surprised ;-)

>>Being Scottish was not something Ewan MacColl could avoid.
>>whatever his place of birth and where he grew up.

I thought the Scots are notorious for "going native", unlike say the Irish? Certainly I've several cousins whose parents or grandparents were Scots but none of them have any noticeable Scots identity - even the two of them that lived near Falkirk for 4 years during the war.


On the issue of singing songs from other areas in assumed accents I think it depends on how you identify yourself as a performer. If you are "putting on a production" presenting songs from regions in a performance, then as with acting it's surely obviously appropriate to assume an accent. You are creating an illusion for the audience.

If however, you identify yourself as a singer of songs from your heritage/tradition learning them, prserving them & passing them on, then the situation becomes less clear & you run the risk of being accused of being a fraud. It's less a case of what you do, but rather how you present it.

In MacColl's case I think the accent/name things come up because perhaps some think that he was presenting himself as something other than what he actually was, and hence trying to deceive.


eto

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:28 PM

Eric

he was trying to give you something - an insight.
he did his best. there was no villainy involved.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 04:32 PM

He wasn't a salford lad


he was a scots lad living in salford

your culture comes from your home

My "experience" is exactly that.

I am a witness not counsel

___________________

As to other points, read other posts

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 05:19 PM

eric

you said of your first post:

1. " ...My question was ... how does somebody brought up in Salford default to a Scottish accent"

2. "I think you'll find that my original post mentioned that BOTH his parents were Scots."

Then you later quoted and commented:

">>While he had a Salford speaking accent, according to his
>>contemporaries the one he used for singing was that he
>>got from his mother Betsy and other members of his family

Thankyou Jim - that answers that question."

Inother words, his mum was a scot - something you already knew?

And what accent did you expect her or his father to speak in? Where's the revelation?

Just as well I (and others) had "an additional point to add to the original question" as you so very ignorantly have coaxed.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,erictheorange
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 07:32 PM

>>weelittledrummer
>>
>>Eric
>>
>>he was trying to give you something - an insight.
>>he did his best. there was no villainy involved.

I don't understand your post. I didn't say there was any villainy involved.


>>GUEST,lox
>>He wasn't a salford lad
>>
>>your culture comes from your home

I think you'll find the home he lived in was in Salford, Lancashire, England ;-)

More seriously I think you're naive if you believe that your sole, or even your main, source of culture comes from your home environment.


>>GUEST,lox
>>
>>eric
>>
>>you said of your first post:
>>
>> etc etc etc etc etc
>>Inother words, his mum was a scot - something you
>>already knew?
>>
>>And what accent did you expect her or his father to speak
>>in? Where's the revelation?

Do I detect by your selective reading of my posts that you're deliberately misunderstanding what I say in an effort to prop up your argument? Perhaps you should read the whole post. I think it's clear enough where I say =>

>>I am aware that his parents were Scottish, but I've got
>>quite a few cousins whose parents were Scots and they have
>>the accent of where they grew up (London and Manchester)
>>without any trace of north of the border except in some of
>>the phrases they use.

to clarify =>

Just because you have Scots parents doesn't necessarily mean that you end up singing in a Scottish accent when you come from Salford (even if you learned the songs from them).

So did he get the accent from his parents, or because he went on lots of holidays to Scotland, or because he ate porridge, or did he acquire it later in life because he thought it might go well with his new name?

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:09 PM

No - No attempt to be selective, and thanks for the respectful approach, plus respect back for not compromising at the same time.

Where You say I am being naive, I say you are underestimating the impact and power of the home.

We are all aware of the potential consequences on a persons life if their famiily home is dysfunctional and even of shallower concepts such as "like father like son."

Within the four walls of his home there was a little scottish colony. His two most influential teachers gave him an education in nuance, approach, humour, personality, moral values, interpretation and an infinite number of other subtleties.

They didn't even know they were doing it and neither did he becaause it happens in everything from "pass the salt" to "well done".

Rhythms of speech and manner of expression run deeper than the more obvious differences beetween different peoples accents. Who someone is, their soul, their heart and their passion come from their home.

His Identity was extracted ultimately from his roots and they were not wishy washy and back in the mists of time, but a real living part of his childhood and adolescence.

I would give a strong family home about 85% of the credit for shaping a person. The rest is adaptation and evolution.

This is why I so stubbornly and apparently unreasonably keep referring back to my second post. There is nothing about me that isn't Irish except for a little social camouflage.

I don't go round preaching on the subject of Irish politics, I don't pit prod against mick, I don't do many of the things that might fit the stereotype, but there is a fundamental and very deep core of me that goes back a long way and is Irish.

When I am with my cousins, be they in Ulster Munster Leinster or connaught, as I have them in each province, it shows, and though my accentt is not complete, noone feeels patronized because I speak from my heart and make no pretence about the things that I say.

I love to sing and I love to play my "instrument" (hold back on the innuendo please, I mean my voice). My accent changes for lots of reasons depending on the song, and when I sing Irish songs, a lilt comes out naturally. More than that though, something else comes through which is my character. It is the thing that identified with the song in the first place and that revels in it when I reproduce it.

There is an Irish Rhythm in delivery, and an Irish idea of spirit, humour,subtlety and melancholy. I got these things and more from my Home life and my parents. It wasn't something that they ever consciously taught me, but something that was imbued in me by spending my formative years with them.

I picked up on what got them excited. I picked up what made them upset, and how they perceived the world and what aspirations they had for it.

It's not about romance or naivety, its psychology 101 ;-)

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:41 PM

Which image is the romantic one?

A young salford lad sitting on his mothers knee learning scots folk songs hearing about the old country,

Or a young lad of 3 or 4 who is just starting to become aware of life (salford) outside his home for the first time having so far spent his time developing the foundation of his identity in the capable hands of his mother, mainly at home, who being scottish has imbued him with all her deepest characteristics, from speech to etc blah blah

you get the gist

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 08:48 PM

you said he was 'trying to deceive', that he was a 'fraud'. that sounds like villainy of some sort.

I think maybe I'm out of my depth.

I'd better give this up. I thought he was more than okay. I'm pleased I saw him, talked with him, proud that he published one of my songs. I thought he was a great man. He really tried to promote what he thought was important. worked hard to perform his songs and to present traditional songs.

I don't know what he's domne to incur so much emnity. I understand there was a period when he was dictatorial about folk music, but he wasn't when I knew him, and he accepted me for what I was as a writer of songs. something I can't say about many other factions and cliques in the folk music world.

he was okay, and so was Peggy.

my last post on the subject.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,erictheorange
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:16 AM

Well I get the feeling we're going round in circles here and I think the more general debate about whether or not to sing songs with an attempt at an original accent is a more interesting and productive thread, so I'll try to limit my responses to just a couple of quick points and then call it quits.


>>weelittledrummer
>>
>>you said he was 'trying to deceive', that he was a 'fraud'.

No I didn't. See what I said

>>In MacColl's case I think the accent/name things come up
>>because perhaps some think that he was presenting himself
>>as something other than what he actually was, and hence
>>trying to deceive.

i.e. You see a guy from Salford change his name to a "distinctly Scottish one", and sing songs in a Scots accent. If you don't know about his parentage and the Lallans thing it's not surprising people might think it's an affectation.

Another example could be what happened with the actress Gillian Anderson from the X-files. When she came over to the UK to live she got criticised for speaking in an English accent, some saw it as an affectation, because they were unaware that she had grown up in London. You get the full information it makes sense, without the full information it seems affected.



>>GUEST,lox
>>
>>Within the four walls of his home there was a little
>>scottish colony. His two most influential teachers gave
>>him an education in nuance, approach, humour, personality,
>>moral values, interpretation and an infinite number of
>>other subtleties.

You speak as if you were there. I accept what you say from your experience, I just disagree that you can extrapolate from that to a general rule. My experience of family members is the opposite. The wider societal influences seem to have been dominant.

If you take Psychology 101 I'm sure they'd cover the point that you can't make assumptions on human behaviour based on an extremely limited sample.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 09:01 AM

perhaps this is fodder for a second sub thread, more closely related to the original context and not inspired by the "ewen MacColl bashing" that some of the more sensitive folk here seem to be concerned the first sub thread was a response to.

I understand that one must try to be objective, but if my hypothesis is wrong, then
-what is the alternative?
-What else existed within the 4 walls of the MacColl household?
-How significant are such influences?
-how important are the first 3/4 years of your life in defining your identity?
-how significant are roots in defining ones identiity?
-if we compared ourselves to a PC, what influences would constitute an operating system and which would constitute tools and mechanisms?
-is that lad a salford lad on a scots mothers knee, or a young scot surrounded by salfordness?
-are identity and roots a load of pretentious twaddle?

From an objective academic perspective of course. ;-)

Isn't it at least a deeper more involved argument than you are seemingly giving it credit for?

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,erictheorange
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:07 AM

>>GUEST,lox
>>
>>perhaps this is fodder for a second sub thread, more
>>closely related to the original context and not inspired
>by the "ewen MacColl bashing" that some of the more
>>sensitive folk here seem to be concerned the first sub
>>thread was a response to.
>>
>>I understand that one must try to be objective, but if my hypothesis >>is wrong, then => etc etc etc etc

Nice try Guest,lox but I've had my say on this and I don't think we're ever going to agree. You're not dragging me back into this topic ;-)


Now everybody. Should you sing in assumed accents or not?

eto

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:17 AM

Only when talking through your ass.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:40 AM

Eric, I promise, no attempt to drag anyone anywhere.

1. I do feel that there is potential for us to explore the question more deeply should we so desire, though if you don't that's fine no problem. I likewise am not so shallow as "nice try" might suggest.

2. Is it fair of me to suggest that you may be volunteering yourself as conductor of the thread a little? is this a class or a forum of discussion?

I understand your reluctance, I admit to a little heckle raising earlier, but I feel you could admit to a little "stage management" too. (and so have I at points ad infinitum) but I genuinely feel the psychological aspect of the question is valid and relevant to both the main thread and the first sub thread.

Call me the missing link if you will.

______________

Guest 10:17

we wouldn't know, we use our wit here. You are welcome to start another thread if you wish to inform us how it's done, but try not to hhijack this one if you are capable of understanding that.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: Lox
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:48 AM

by the way, I found my old membership from ages ago. I will no longer be GUESTlox from now on but just plain old lox.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:04 AM

No one is trying to hhijack anything here lox nor is a new thread necessary to inform how it's done. Just re read this thread and learn from the experts. I'm just amazed at the purile rubbish that is being spouted here.

Does it matter what accent he used?

What are the other hobbies of the prime posters - watching the grass grow or the paint dry?

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST,erictheorange
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 01:16 PM

I'm not biting Lox

eto

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: Lox
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 03:13 PM

Hello guest how are you are you having a nice day ... zzzzz ...

"No one is trying to hhijack anything here lox"

That's what I said ... zzzz ...

"Does it matter what accent he used?"

That's a point of view I've been advocating ... zzzz ...

"What are the other hobbies of the prime posters - watching the grass grow or the paint dry?"

The choice as I am aware of it is wider than that, and it is probably because I am aware of it that I never gained your expertise in "talking through your ass."

Having said that, both those options sound preferrable to reading the semi literate grunts that emanate from the putrid jelly you call your brain.
______________________

Sorry folks, couldn't resist. Matbe I shouldn't bite either.
______________________

Eric, :-)

No worries. You'll get to know me in time and maybe when you do you'll be curious to entertain the question "how significant is ones home environment in comparison to ones wider environment in the development of ones identity?".

I'll leave it in your hands, or anyone elses who cares to try it out. though probably best left to another thread at another time.

Till then, no stress. I'm out too, as I feel I've said everything I had to say on the question of artistic expression.
______________________

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:11 PM

Lox

"I never gained your expertise in talking through your ass"

Goldie, whos ass are you talking through here? Arstistic expression is definately your forte so stick to expressing it through your own.

Another thing, when you feel the need to insult someone always say what you mean, don't hold back.

As for "putrid jelly that you call your brain." At least we're on the same wavelength!

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl's accent
From: Lox
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:40 PM

"From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:17 AM

Only when talking through your ass."

"From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:11 PM

Another thing, when you feel the need to insult someone always say what you mean, don't hold back."

... ??? ...

zzzz ...