BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 29 Aug 16 - 08:31 AM

the pro-Israel AIPAC mafia

Where have we heard that before? Oh yeah:

Rik Little: If I can I stay away from preloaded titles like Jew. It wastes too much time arguing with idiots. I say Zionists or AIPAC worshipers.
13 hrs

David Blomstrom: The problem is that "Zionist" doesn't include Jewish bankers, the Jews who control the media, etc. A better term is actually "Jewish Mafia," but I still often use "Jews" simply because the Jewish Mafia is so big.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Aug 16 - 08:15 AM

Utter denial. Popular cause my arse. Sinister, ruthless, undemocratic. And before Booboo butts in with his Jew hater nonsense, the pro-Israel AIPAC mafia are by no means all Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Aug 16 - 05:09 AM

Greg,
Your accusation is utter bullshit,

I have made no accusation.
The accusations all came from within the Labour Party.
Does that make them, "serial bullshitters" Greg?

Steve,
Get over yourself apropos of "Labour antisemitism," Keith. A few idiots spoke ignorantly and none of them are antisemites.

Again you show yourself blind to antisemitism Steve. Your definition is clearly flawed and perverse.
Sadiq Khan could see it, but you can't.
You could not see the antisemitism in Shah's comments, but the leadership including Corbyn and the NEC could, other Parties could, and Shah herself could when her ignorance of the facts and issues was corrected.

" your lot," "one of yours," " your sorry affiliations," "You hate Labour and you hate that."

I do not hate Labour and was a Labour voter when Blair was leader.
I have no "lot" or "affiliations," so please drop the personal stuff.

You wildly asserted that the US is "in the cast iron grip of its pro-Israel lobby."
What is the nature of that cast iron grip Steve?
They are just another lobby group (though it is a popular cause).

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 10:22 PM

Here's one passionate leftist and liberal who won't be voting for Jeremy Corbyn and he doesn't mind telling you why: Why you shouldn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 05:13 PM

Lies and more lies from our resident liar in chief.

Get over yourself apropos of "Labour antisemitism," Keith. A few idiots spoke ignorantly and none of them are antisemites. The Labour Party is full of people who fight racism in all its forms, hundreds of times more of them than the few silly buggers that you're obsesses with. Hundreds of times more members of Labour Friends Of Israel. That's more than can be said for the piccaninny-lovers in your lot, not to speak of their shabby history of racism. Enoch Powell was one of yours and he'd be right with you now. Smethwick too, yeah? "If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour." Who the hell are you to preach to anyone about racism with your sorry affiliations? Move on. Everyone else has. It's over. A few idiots. We know that. No institutional antisemitism. You hate Labour and you hate that. Tough shit. You're yesterday's man on this, along with most other things you post about.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 05:09 PM

Any views on the antisemitism polluting the Left of the Labor Party?

Views? Sure do. Your accusation is utter bullshit, and you are a serial bullshitter, Professor.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 04:12 PM

Kinda like the women & children & innocent civilians in Gaza and the Occupied Territories, you mean?.

No. Like the huge national armies of its neighbours, armed and trained by the Soviets.
The regime in Gaza attempts atrocities against Israeli civilians from civilian occupied areas so that any retaliation inevitably kills "the women & children & innocent civilians in Gaza."

This thread is about the UK Labour Party not the Middle East.
Any views on the antisemitism polluting the Left of the Party?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 02:35 PM

under constant threat of attack from its powerful surrounding neighbours

Kinda like the women & children & innocent civilians in Gaza and the Occupied Territories, you mean?.

Israel has, thru right-wing, fundamentalist intransigence & bull-headedness, had a large hand in creating the bed it currently has to lie in, Professor.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 02:18 PM

It is a tiny sliver of a country that has had to exist under constant threat of attack from its powerful surrounding neighbours supported by a superpower.
For a basket case it has done pretty well so far.

Steve, if the "US that's in the cast iron grip of its pro-Israel lobby" please tell us what leverage Israel's lobbyists have that prevents them being dismissed as just another lobbying group.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 12:59 PM

Israel is a basket case with or without U.S. aid, Professor.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 12:38 PM

Have things to do. In haste. Bobad, you condescendingly presume to summarise the piece for me. Well let me gently point out to you that the article was comparing the situation in Israel with the situation in Crimea. That was the WHOLE POINT of the damn thing. Your "summary" didn't even mention Crimea! I mean, whose head did it really go over? 😂😂😂

Teribus, go and look it up. Likewise, Keith. What a bunch of jokers you lot are. Must dash.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 12:03 PM

Nothing to do with three billion a year in military aid from a US that's in the cast iron grip of its pro-Israel lobby then.

You make my point that Israel is a basket case, dependent on US aid.
It can not buy friends and its lobbyists have no leverage over anyone, except that they tell the truth and the other side lies.

If they or their lobbyists have any other leverage over sovereign governments Steve, please tell us what it is, then we can get back to the Labour Party.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 11:20 AM

by the way Shaw the only people who have ever illegally "occupied" land in Palestine were the Jordanians (East Jerusalem & the West Bank - invaded and occupied in 1948) and the Egyptians (Gaza - invaded and occupied in 1948). All were returned to the former mandate of Palestine in 1967 when Israeli forces drove out the occupying forces.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 10:38 AM

Steve Shaw - 28 Aug 16 - 06:11 AM

"Every government in the world (except Israel's😂) regards the Israeli settlements as illegal under international law. They also contravene several UN resolutions, which Israel simply ignores."

Another baseless assertion from Steve Shaw.

1: "the Israeli settlements as illegal under international law"

C'mon then Shaw give us chapter and verse on what international statute or law is being broken. If you cannot then please have the integrity and honesty to admit that you cannot and then shut up about it.

2: "They also contravene several UN resolutions"

What UN Resolutions of Council are the Israelis contravening by ignoring? If you cannot detail them, or even describe them honestly then once again shut up about them.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 10:13 AM

Correction: that should read: the territory west of the river Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 10:10 AM

I see the article went completely over your little head so allow me to summarize it for you:

The borders of what constitutes the state of Israel today ie. the territory east of the river Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea were established by the League of Nations in 1922 and nothing that has happened since has legally modified these frontiers.

We continue to hear the term "illegal", but "legal and illegal" has to be more that political desires and interests. It has to refer to law.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 09:39 AM

Well, booboo, here's me suspecting that you didn't really understand that labyrinthine treatise on technicalities. The two situations, in human being terms, have got very little in common. For a start, almost all the citizens of Crimea would much rather be part of Russia. And you have to think that yer man may not be entirely reliable, going from his last sentence:

"In the end, as has been the case since 1948, Israel will have to rely on itself."

Very funny. Nothing to do with three billion a year in military aid from a US that's in the cast iron grip of its pro-Israel lobby then. And Keith, are you really trying to assert that AIPAC and their dodgy acolytes are all sweetness and democratic light? Come off it. Along with the big corporations they control their politicians pretty well They daren't say boo to a goose.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 09:18 AM

Steve, Much as I enjoy our discussions about Israel, I am here to discuss the Labour Party.

I do query this statement of yours.
The main reason we have this facade of "friendly relations" with Israel is the disproportionate influence of the pro-Israel lobby,?

Lobbyists can be ignored.
What clout do lobbyists for Israel have over lobbyists for the Palestinians?

Is it not just that Palestinian lobbyists spout propagnanda which carries no influence with well informed Western governments, while Israel's side of the story can be substantiated?

If Israel was guilty of atrocities no-one would give their lobbyists the time of day.
Israel has no oil or strategic reserves to buy friends. The friendship of democratic governments is genuine.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 08:50 AM

Occupied   

Wrong:   Crimea, International Law, and the West Bank

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 08:40 AM

Occupied.

You are posting nonsense every time, Keith. "Not tested in court" my arse. Name your court. Right to ignore the UN (i.e., cherrypick the policies that suit you and ignore the rest, to be more accurate) my arse. Of course, the US, Israel's big western poodle, hates the UN. It wants to be able to stick its interfering nose into affairs the world over untrammelled. Hates paying its UN dues, too, and briefs against it when it's not actually vetoing resolutions that everyone else agrees with.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 08:20 AM

Israeli settlements as illegal under international law.

Please tell us what is the legal status of Judea and Samaria, aka the West Bank, under international law.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 08:15 AM

steve,
Every government in the world (except Israel's😂) regards the Israeli settlements as illegal under international law.

Never tested in court. Israel may well be right.

They also contravene several UN resolutions,

Only General Council resolutions, where anti-western, anti democratic states have a built in majority. Of course they should be ignored.

Absolute denialist drivel.

It is you who are in denial Steve.
You deny that Shah's comments were antisemitic.
That is contradicted by Labour's leadership including Corbyn himself and the NEC, Shah herself once her ignorance of the facts and issues was dispelled, and indeed by the other Parties.

Your definition of antisemitism is clearly inadequate and perverse, yet you expect it to receive serious consideration in this discussion!
Absolute denialist drivel!

The definition everyone else has adopted seems to be a version of the EUMC definition, and probably those exact definitions.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 06:11 AM

Every government in the world (except Israel's😂) regards the Israeli settlements as illegal under international law. They also contravene several UN resolutions, which Israel simply ignores. The main reason we have this facade of "friendly relations" with Israel is the disproportionate influence of the pro-Israel lobby, notably the incredibly undemocratic one in the US, the nation which leads the world in nurturing those "friendly relations." No US politician who values his career dares brief against Israel. Bibi and Obama don't get on and Obama doesn't care for those settlements. So when Obama is visiting Israel, Bibi embarrasses him by pointedly announcing new settlements. But Obama knows that he's toast if he utters anything more that the mildest rebuke. Yep, that's how you run those "friendly relations" all right! And yes, Keith, these things have really happened!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 05:23 AM

Absolute denialist drivel. Every single point you ignorantly raise in that post has been comprehensively dealt with ad nauseam, most of it done to death in this thread alone.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 04:10 AM

Western media are overwhelmingly on Israel's side, twerp.

That is only true to the extent that Liberal Western Democracies are all on friendly terms with Israel.
That is because they are well informed and know that all that shit you accuse them of is just lying propanda.
If they were really guilty of atrocities, not having any valuable strategic resources, they would be shunned.

Most days for the last five years Syria has committed atrocities against civilians and children that dwarf anything Israel has even been accused of, so why always and only criticise Israel Steve?

Most countries in the region have a much worse human rights record than Israel, so why always and only criticise Israel Steve?

Why do you judge the only Jewish state by different standards than all its neighbours Steve?
By the EUMC definitions, which Labour seems to be working to, that is antisemitic.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 07:54 PM

Isn't it interesting that those of us who recoil in horror at the brutality of the Holocaust, who would have Holocaust deniers thrown into jail, who support heartily the right of the people of Israel, Jews and non-Jews alike, to live in peace, prosperity and security, who condemn outright the idiots who say they want Israel wiped off the map and who detest the very idea that any state can be "Islamic," can be subjected on this forum to invective from a brainless bigot who tosses around so carelessly and inappropriately phrases such as "final solution." That isn't just bad taste. That is hate speech. I can't possibly take offence at the ramblings and snipings of a cheating, small-minded and very likely drugged idiot such as bobad, but what a shame that the mods here, who are probably ignoring this thread hoping that we'll drown in our own cesspit, allow this stuff to go unpunished, thereby dragging this forum into disrepute. And, by the way, all the points made in my first sentence apply to me, and have all been made by me at least several times, and often many times, on this forum. I dare say they all apply to everyone else here too. Disagree with a single one of them and I'll take you on.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 06:23 PM

My last post was directed at Teribus.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 01:16 PM

The REAL question is, what's the final solution to idiots like YOU, Bubo?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 12:52 PM

And it's taken you all afternoon to come up with that denialist garbage.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 12:50 PM

You really are insane, aren't you?

Not nearly as insane as someone who believes that making the Jews a minority in their own country, a minority to a majority of Arab Muslims, is a solution to anything in the Middle East.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 12:11 PM

Steve Shaw - 27 Aug 16 - 07:12 AM


1: "Yes they matter. I don't know where you get the idea from that I defend to the hilt what happens in Islamic states." I don't. I hate it."

Odd then that you only ever go into print to condemn Israel - Never Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah or their supporters. Gives a very good indication of just how much you hate it doesn't it.

2: "The discrimination I have pointed to in Israel is perfectly deliberate."

Let's go through them shall we?:

The wall was built deliberately.

The road blocks are not accidental

The prisons and justice system are doing what they do by design.

The school buses don't miss the Arab towns out because the satnav maps are out of date.

Now what did I say the primary duty and responsibility of the Israeli Government was again? Oh yes, it was to ensure the safety and security of Israel and the population of Israel irrespective of race, or religion. ALL of the above were security measures brought in to protect the population of Israel and guess what Shaw - it worked.

3: "If those things happened to you you'd go mental."

Now how on earth would, or could, such things happen to me Shaw? After all I do not support those who seek the destruction of any of my neighbours.

4: "or you're defending them because you think that Arabs as a race deserve all they get, innocent or guilty. Which is it to be?

I defend the right of the Israeli Government to implement whatever measures they see fit to protect their population, as our own Government did when faced with the same situation:

We built walls to separate communities
We set up road-blocks and checkpoints
We adopted the use of internment and non-jury trials previously employed in the Irish Republic to counter a terrorist threat.
Vulnerable and precious cargoes were diverted along the safest routes.

Another anomaly Shaw, perhaps just an oversight in your haste to pour condemnation on the Israeli Government, while always failing to cast any blame whatsoever on her enemies, the Israelis are not the only ones to have built barriers, set up road-blocks and checkpoints, set up special judicial measures and used convoy systems and special routes are they? Hamas' only other neighbour, Egypt has done exactly the same along it's border with Gaza - Now why is that Shaw?

Donuel - 27 Aug 16 - 08:37 AM

"Teribus dared to put words in my mouth by decreeing I said something I did not say."

Now what words have I put into your mouth Donuel?

Donuel - 26 Aug 16 - 10:43 AM

"The current right wing Israel is far apart from that end game Steve."

Those were your words that I faithfully quoted and commented as follows:

"Be interested in hearing the rational behind that statement. As far as their track record shows, the Israelis are more than ready to talk to anyone, and when such talks have taken place the agreements reached have stood the test of time. The same however can not be said of those who make up the Palestinian Authority {Their former leader Arafat threw away the best chance they ever had in 2000}, Hamas and Hezbollah. The last two have ruled out any prospect of talks or negotiation, yet as far as you can see it Donuel it would appear that you only see the fault as being only on the side of the Israelis."

Not surprised at all that you will not address points put directly to you - propaganda indeed!!

But when it comes to truth you are rather good at apportioning blame where it doesn't belong are you. Not too shy at smearing the name of the innocent in doing so either. If memory serves me correctly you went into print on this very forum to blacken the name of John McCain, blaming him for the deck fire that occurred on the USS Forrestal in 1967. You persisted in the accusation never admitting your error even when it was pointed out to you that the rocket that caused the fire was accidentally discharged from a wing pod of a Phantom F-4B of VF-11 positioned on the aft deck, John McCain did not fly Phantoms he flew Douglas A-4 Skyhawks - So it should not come as any surprise to you at all that I regard anything you contribute with the greatest scepticism.

Liked the "Shaw being the only one courageous enough to offer a solution" - What Shaw did was to offer a recipe for disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 10:30 AM

You really are insane, aren't you?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 10:26 AM

visualize an end game to the Mideast problem

More like a final solution I'd say but it's no mystery why Shaw would support it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 10:11 AM

Teribus dared to put words in my mouth

S.O.P.

Ditto Bubo.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 08:37 AM

Only Steve was courageous and rational enough to attempt to visualize an end game to the Mideast problem or as some call it "Ethniclashistan"

Teribus dared to put words in my mouth by decreeing I said something I did not say.

I can have a discussion with the propaganda of Teribus, but not with Teribus

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 07:12 AM

Yes they matter. I don't know where you get the idea from that I defend to the hilt what happens in Islamic states. I don't. I hate it. But you don't get let off from stealing my apple because the other lad looks up girls' skirts. The discrimination I have pointed to in Israel is perfectly deliberate. The wall was built deliberately. The road blocks are not accidental. The prisons and justice system are doing what they do by design. The school buses don't miss the Arab towns out because the satnav maps are out of date. If those things happened to you you'd go mental. Now either you deny that these things happen (go on, look them up) or you're defending them because you think that Arabs as a race deserve all they get, innocent or guilty. Which is it to be?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 06:40 AM

Steve Shaw - 27 Aug 16 - 06:20 AM

No Shaw it is high time that you grew up.

Jews in Israel are not discriminated against? Where did you get that crap from? There are reports of discrimination between different branches of the religion, but again NOT driven by Government Policy which is most certainly against any form of racism, inequality and discrimination.

Now let us all hear you complain about inequality, discrimination and racism in the countries surrounding Israel. Or don't they matter.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 06:24 AM

"Unsubstantiated Shaw bullshit. Even if it were true who's side would you have them be on? The side who's expressed goal is to kill Jews like you and the party you belong to support?"

I suggest you stay clear of the drink and drugs before you post in future. Better still, why don't you take your bilious hatred elsewhere?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 06:20 AM

Don't be childish. Of course there is inequality and discrimination everywhere. But, in Israel, Jewish people get their school buses to go through their towns, not around the edges. Jewish people are not held for days at road blocks. Jewish people don't have their family farms cut in half by a concrete wall. Jewish people are not trapped inside a squalid, overcrowded little enclave in their millions. Jewish people are not discriminated against in the workplace. Jewish people are not held in jails for years without charge (I mean, what kind of "democracy" is that!) Now either you think that Jewish people are better in every way than Arabs or there is deliberate discrimination. Make your mind up now. Deliberate, I said. And just because little Jimmy at the desk next to me looks up girls' skirts it doesn't mean that it's OK for me to nick your apple. Do grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 02:37 AM

I am sure that there are inequalities and discrimination in Israel as exist in every single country and in every single society on this planet Shaw {After all we have been discussing instances of this self same racism in the Labour Party haven't we}, whether it amounts to actual racism or ethnocentrism is open to question. But in Israel as in most other countries it is not deliberate Government policy and it is actively discouraged by Government.

Care to discuss the inequalities and the discrimination faced by minorities in the countries that border Israel? Just to get a balance.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 16 - 09:39 PM

Even if it were true who's side would you have them be on?

Truth's & justice's perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 26 Aug 16 - 09:21 PM

Western media are overwhelmingly on Israel's side

Unsubstantiated Shaw bullshit. Even if it were true who's side would you have them be on? The side who's expressed goal is to kill Jews like you and the party you belong to support?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 16 - 08:56 PM

Western media are overwhelmingly on Israel's side, twerp. For Christ's sake, man. As for those gross inequalities, I did invite you to look it up. In fact, I've given facts and figures in this very thread. Arabs in Israel are severely discriminated against. In terms of pay, unemployment, housing and education, they lag way behind Israeli Jews. Now either you think that's because Jews are the superior race (knowing you and your sorry ilk, I would hardly be surprised if that's what you thought), or it's because there is serious discrimination against Arabs in Israel. Now why don't you look it up if you don't believe me. I mean, why let facts get in the way of your blind anti-Arab bigotry. Go on, look it up, right now. Apart from those rather obstinate statistics that you'd rather not confront, we have all the stories about non-Jews being held up without reason at pointless road blocks, not to speak of thousands of Palestinians held for years in Israeli jails without charge or even without being told why they're being held. And that includes hundreds of women and children. Uncomfortable, eh? Go on, look it up, why don't you. You won't like what you find, but, of course, you'd far rather chicken out and pontificate about how wonderfully moral the actions of the state of Israel always are than face the facts. You've been seriously taken in, Woodcock, old fruit. It's about time you looked for the facts first instead of settling on received wisdom then finding the propaganda to fit.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Aug 16 - 07:40 PM

"The icing on that multi-layered cake is that Israel has the media on its side in every western country."

EHmmmm I don't think that that was what the Balen Report concluded Shaw, read that sentence of yours to those in the know at the BBC and you'd be laughed out of the building.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Aug 16 - 07:31 PM

Steve Shaw - 26 Aug 16 - 05:39 PM

How does these "gross inequalities between Jews and Arabs in Israel, pointing to severe discrimination against the latter" square with there being 17 out of 120 Arab Knesset Members? What about Israeli Arabs in the Cabinet? Or Israeli Arab Generals in the IDF? Or Israeli Arab Ambassadors?

The Israeli Arabs constitute almost 21% of the population of Israel so with al this discrimination and inequality I really would love to hear how all those mentioned above managed to get through the net.

Tell me Shaw who forms the political opposition in Gaza? I know they don't do elections, but are there any other political Parties in Gaza {Or did they all fly off the roofs of high-rise buildings a few years back?}

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 16 - 05:41 PM

Great minds, Greg. I posted mine before reading yours. Bobad is a chap who never lets facts get in the way. Or two chaps.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 16 - 05:39 PM

Several times in this thread I have described the gross inequalities between Jews and Arabs in Israel, pointing to severe discrimination against the latter. These facts are just that, facts, not my opinions. Easy to access. None so blind, bobad.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 16 - 05:37 PM

That pretty much describes Israel today

You're joking, right? Or just blind?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 26 Aug 16 - 04:51 PM

"A single secular democratic state with equal rights for all regardless of ethnicity, Jews and non-Jews living side by side. No mini-enclaves of Jews or Arabs."

That pretty much describes Israel today - can't say the same for it's neighbours though.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 16 - 04:49 PM

So they're all unreconstructed savages with tribal values who are best left to tear each other to pieces, Teribus. Not actual human beings. You really haven't got a clue, have you. As for Israel's talks, there have been no genuine talks ever, for the very simple reason that, thanks to the unconditional bankrolling by the US of all their military needs, Israel never has to give one inch. And no politician in the US who values his career dares brief against Israel. The icing on that multi-layered cake is that Israel has the media on its side in every western country. There are reasons for that that we don't need to go into here, but, before booboo chimes in, it has nothing to do with "Jews controlling the mass media," etc.