BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 11:18 AM

"Both your obsessive fixations on the individual rather than the topic of the thread exemplifies perfectly why some choose to post anonymously when that option is available to them."
You use your anonymity in order to freely and excessively replace argument with gutter-level abuse and in doing so, yo have no right whatever to complain when others return your behaviour in kind.
Your use of anonymity is a form of cowardice - you would never dare to behave the way you do from behind the safety of your keyboard as you would face-to face - I know damn well if you behaved the way you do in person to some of the people I've met you'd be sent home with your teeth in your pocket.
Perhaps it might help if you pretended we were arguing over a pint - that would slow your gallop somewhat.
You automatically react to arguments you can't handle with a scream of "Antisemitism"
Keith has been a bit more inventive and has gone through a small repertoire of tricks
He used to hide behind unacceptable arguments by claiming he only said them because somebody else did.
Then he discovered the "historian" gambit by selecting right -sounding scoops from the net and presenting them as gospel from "eminent" historians *who he'd never heard of five minutes earlier and certainly never read.
Of late he's taken to making statements, denying he ever made them, then, when proved he has, goes on to defend them as strongly as he was before he "never said them".
The latest thing is to make statements and, when asked for substantiation, go silent for a few posts and repeat them all over again - as often as he sees fit - which is exactly what he is doing here.
Teribus just acts like a bully, talks down to people most of the time and makes pronouncements he never feels the need to season with proof, expecting what he has said tio be accepted without question.   
This is a great forum, or could be if it wasn't for people who behave like you trio.
I believe that collectively, this forum has enough collective knowledge to build cities if it was used to exchange ideas rather than score points.
With you lot, winning seems to be more important that finding the truth or at least, to come to some mutual conclusion.
Ths makes discussion in which you are involved both unfruitful and unpleasant.
You really need to look to your own behaviour before you start pointing fingers.
I heve no problem with healthy robust argument - I much prefer it to anodyne agreement, but you lot have become beyind the pale.
If you refer to me as an "Antisemite" one more time I shall move heaven and earth to have you removed from this thread - that goes for Keith as well - I can come with the bully - I got used to it in primary school.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 11:02 AM

Keith - what's more personal than you constantly attacking and maliciously maligning the one political party
that genuinely defends the well being of my old mum, my wife, and myself...!!!???

Tell me that then mr [w]easily offended self righteous pompous pants... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 10:45 AM

No contribution to the discussion again Pfr.
Just personal stuff, as from Jim and Steve.

What I complained of from Jim, and suggested that it merited expulsion, was his advocating of personal attacks on another member.

Sunday Times today,

"A black rights activist linked to the left-wing group Momentum has been suspended from the Labour Party over remarks drawing parallels between Zionism and the Nazis.

Marlene Ellis, the acting general secretary of Momentum Black ConneXions, a group of Jeremy Corbyn's supporters promoting black rights, signed a letter criticising Labour for suspending Ken Livingstone.

The action against the former mayor of London was taken pending an investigation after he claimed that Hitler had once supported Zionism and that antisemitism was not exactly the same as racism. He has denied antisemitism."
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-activist-suspended-for-antisemitism-9rf7t3d5s

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 10:17 AM

"pfr, again nothing on the issues, .... Have you anything of substance to say?"

Keith - You seem to have a very short selective memory - I had much of value to contribute to this 'debate',
but as always, inevitably got exasperated and bored trying to reason with thick brick walled defensively fortified fortress Keith..

As for Bob... I'm becoming more convinced he is using a software autobot
programmed with key words and phrases to randomly generate his posts to this thread... 🙄


Though gotta admire you and bob's desperate optimism in the face of certain defeat...

But if I was a hapless low rank soldier under your battlefield command, I'd be shitting bricks and praying the wife got my last letter home... 😨

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 09:53 AM

Both your obsessive fixations on the individual rather than the topic of the thread exemplifies perfectly why some choose to post anonymously when that option is available to them.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 09:08 AM

"So much obsessive hatred, what a burden it must be."
Couldn't agree more
You have habitually referred to every criticism of Israeli policy as "Antisemitic", no matter what it was.
This is right in line with the inappropriatly appointed Israel's justice minister, Ayelet Shaked's statement, now being debated seriously in the Jerusalem Post.
Nobody here has ever accused 'The Jews' of anything, other than you - you are the main Antisemite here (a close runner-up being Keith, who only occasionally makes the accusation when he paints himself into a corner, as he invariably does.   
If oyu have any example of any of us accusing the Jewish People of anything, feel free to point it out.
Apparently, after having clamped down (quite rightly in some cases) on bad behaviour on this thread, hate-mail such as yours manages to slip under the wire each time - A similar tolerance is shown to those who choose to attack Irish people.
As much as I admire and enjoy this forum, I'm at a loss to understand why such behaviour as yors and Keith's is tolerated.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 08:36 AM

I don't hate you. In fact, if I thought you were old enough, I'd let you buy me a pint.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 08:31 AM

So much obsessive hatred, what a burden it must be.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 06:13 AM

You should be ashamed of yourself, coming to the defence of bobad. From behind a wall of cowardly anonymity, whilst retaining his bobad option, he called us a worse name than antisemite. He called us Jew-haters, whilst hypocritically bleating that he needed his anonymity so that the rest of us would attack the issue, not the man. Well done for showing us your true colours, Keith. Now let's see you calling for HIS expulsion for taking a secret double identity in order to attack perfectly fair-minded people.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 05:52 AM

"Saying things like that should be an expulsion issue Jim."
Calling people "Antisemitics" as many times as Bobad does should be an issue as far as I'm concerned, as should calling people a "liar as many times as you do.
If the behaviour of both of you in this respect isn't breaching the rules of this forum, it should be.
"recognises the seriousness of this issue."
Your dementia is showing again Keith - being accused of Antisemitism is a serious issue, being guilty of it is a different matter altogether.
We've dealt with the Labour open supporter of the Israeli propaganda campaign and the Mayor of London at least half-a-dozen times - you repeating it as often as you do is now becoming embarrassing.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 04:38 AM

Bobad is a hate-filled Antisemitic fanatic and deserves all the attacking due to him and his kind

Saying things like that should be an expulsion issue Jim.

Where has the Labour Party accused itself of Antisemitism and how could any party do such a thing without producing the evidence - you have produced none.
Rather, you have relied on unrepresentative quotes...

Labour List is not "unrepresentative" and it reported theat the "entire NEC "recognises the seriousness of this issue."

The former elected leader of Scottish Labour is not unrepresentative.
Sadiq Khan is not unrepresentative.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 04:32 AM

Bobad is a hate-filled Antisemitic fanatic and deserves all the attacking due to him and his kind
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 04:30 AM

"When a major party ACCUSES ITSELF of antisemitism, it is a serious issue."
Where has the Labour Party accused itself of Antisemitism and how could any party do such a thing without producing the evidence - you have produced none.
Rather, you have relied on unrepresentative quotes, distorted descriptions of attitudes, Israeli generated propaganda and downright lying in making claims that have been proven to to be true.
Nothing new under the sun eh?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 04:21 AM

When a major party ACCUSES ITSELF of antisemitism, it is a serious issue.
Hence the question, "Whither the Labour Party."

pfr, again nothing on the issues, just a personal attack on Bobad.
Have you anything of substance to say?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 02:28 PM

"The "entire" Labour Party NEC said that it "recognises the seriousness of this issue "
And Jim and Steve recognise that when a major Party is accused of Antisemitism it is a serious issue.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 01:45 PM

ok.. bangers and spuds are now in the oven.. got a few spare minutes...

Military History pedants .. yes I actually know that wasn't his exact rank at death..

But I typed that quick whilst chuckling too hard at bob's post...
- at least I didn't call him General Custard, as fondly remembered from childhood cowboys and indians games... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 01:23 PM

"e"

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 01:18 PM

bobad - what you just posted kinda reminds me of a General Custer's last few moments trying to keep up troop moral... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 12:46 PM

The "entire" Labour Party NEC said that it "recognises the seriousness of this issue " so the fact that Steve and Jim do not hardly matters!!

It just shows that you are in denial of the truth.


My case is that Labour people have accused other Labour people of antisemitism, backed it with quotes, and have not misquoted anyone.
Steve can not produce an example of a misquote because he lied.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 12:35 PM

You've proved nothing, Keith. Your last post didn't actually address anything I've said. Mysterious. And which one of you said that, BoGuestbad?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 12:01 PM

Heh, heh, you're wiping the floor with them Keith, that's why they're being so petulant........keep up the good fight.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 11:07 AM

"At least four, and many that were not reported. Some 50 people were suspended."
Out of how many Labour Party Members - 400,000 on the last count and steadily rising - now 4 really is a serious problem, don't you think?
I could probably list you at least a dozen Conservatives from personal experience and that's without thinking.
What are you on?
"At least four, and many that were not reported"
If they were not reported - you know about them how exactly - what have I told you about hacking
Your attempts to create 'facts' is becoming as legendary as your 'historians'
How many of those fifty have actually been found guilty of anything - none, I think - doesn't stop this good ol redneck from slinging the rope over the branch
Does any of this have any foundation in reality or are they among all the the 'links you claim to have provided?
I suggest that the vast majority if not all of these can be traced back to criticism of Israel and extreme Zionism and attacks on the Jewish Peoiple don't feature in any of this garbage.
"but there have been a number of cases."
Surely you meaqn "number of accusations" or are actual proven cases something you have hacked into in the small hours?
"recognises the seriousness of this issue "
When are you going to stop this - if a major political party is accused of Antisemitism is is a serious issue - a million miles away from there being a major or any sort of problem with Antisemitism.
Your spite is overwhelming - on this as well as other subjects.
What was it Drippipe Thynne used to say, "you silly twisted boy".
Now , any progress on the "many labour party members" front yet - no?
Thought not.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 10:50 AM

The "entire" Labour Party NEC said that it "recognises the seriousness of this issue " so the fact that you and Jim do not hardly matters!!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 10:48 AM

Steve,
Er, that last bit is yet another misrepresentation.

I can prove that claim is as false as all the others.
Here is the whole passage

"Anti-Semitism inquiry
Jeremy Corbyn then introduced Baroness Jan Royall, who has conducted two recent investigations into specific allegations of anti-Semitism, and Shami Chakrabarti, who will be chairing a wider ranging inquiry looking at anti-Semitism within the Labour Party. The entire NEC recognises the seriousness of this issue and is committed to addressing all the issues raised by these inquiries. You can read the executive summaries and recommendations of Baroness Royall's reports online at http://press.labour.org.uk/post/144505485689/baroness-royall-inquiry."
http://labourlist.org/2016/05/alice-perrys-nec-report-corbyn-fighting-prejudice-and-listening-to-voters-online/

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 10:40 AM

Which is not to imply that I think there is a serious problem. There isn't. But there is an issue to address. And that Labour is addressing it far better than any other organisation I can think of.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 10:33 AM

Er, that last bit is yet another misrepresentation. Well done, Keith. I've said in this thread that the issue is a serious one and should be properly addressed and that I agree with what the party is doing about it. All here in the thread. You have this seemingly irresistible urge to do Aunt Sallys.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 10:12 AM

Sorry Steve.
I was unwell and had to cut my visit short.

I have only ever said that some Labourites accuse others of antisemitism.
It is your denials that have kept this thread going long after it dropped out of the news.
I have just repeated my original contention, as Pfr acknowledges and castigates me for.

Already addressed to death in this very thread, all of it.

The only example you can produce is that BBC one where I quoted the relevant three sentences in full.
Your claim is a lie.
If you are not lying, produce some of the actual misquoted you claim.
Good luck with that!

Jim,
There have been a couple of reported cases

At least four, and many that were not reported. Some 50 people were suspended.

- they are, ot course appalling as are any such examples of racist or cultural abuse,

That is all I have ever claimed!

but that is no reason so suggest it is widespread

I have not, but there have been a number of cases.

or in any way a serious problem.

The Labour Party NEC said that it "recognises the seriousness of this issue " so the fact that you and Steve do not hardly matters!!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 07:38 AM

""The NEC are appalled by recent cases of anti-Semitic abuse. ""
There have been a couple of reported cases - no more - they are, ot course appalling as are any such examples of racist or cultural abuse, but that is no reason so suggest it is widespread or in any way a serious problem - there is no indication that there is any more than there is serious Islamophobia in the Conservative Party because an enquiry is being held there - or are you suggesting that the same applies to the Tories?
You have deliberately made yourself part of the Israeli propaganda campaign and you have lied in an attempt to show there is a serious problem - you have even lied n claimng you have given links where you haven't - _ summed up your links - two serious accusations by two people linked directly to Israeli propaganda.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 06:43 AM

Already addressed to death in this very thread, all of it. Try not to waste our time, though do feel free to waste your energy. Anyway, I thought you were giving us a rest for a few days. Just think, Keith, if you'd stuck to that this angst-ridden thread, yet another that has shredded your credibility, would have sunk quietly below the cutoff line, never to be seen again.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 05:32 AM

Jim,
there is no indication whatever that those accusations have any foundation

Yes there is.
"The NEC are appalled by recent cases of anti-Semitic abuse. "
" The entire NEC recognises the seriousness of this issue and is committed to addressing all the issues raised by these inquiries."
http://labourlist.org/2016/05/alice-perrys-nec-report-corbyn-fighting-prejudice-and-listening-to-voters-online/

Steve, I have debunked you Wheatcroft claims many times and am happy to keep doing it.
I quoted him accurately and in full.

you misrepresented Jackie Butler by leaving inconvenient bits out of the quote (a misquote, in other words)

Not true.
I referred to the BBC report on her reinstatement, and quoted their first 3 sentences in full.

Jackie Walker's suspension was lifted following an investigation, the party said.
The Kent activist and vice chair of the Momentum movement wrote about "the African holocaust" and Jews as "chief financiers of the slave trade".
Here is the rest of the piece.
I did not leave out any of her contentious remarks.
Your claim is false.


She said the past few weeks had been "a living nightmare".
Ms Walker said: "I am glad this investigation has fully cleared me of any wrongdoing.
"I am not a racist, but I robustly defend my right and the right of others to speak openly and frankly about matters of grave political and historical importance."

It is not true that I "misrepresented Jackie Butler by leaving inconvenient bits out of the quote "

That is all the BBC piece had about it.
I quoted them in full.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-36405130

Anything else Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 08:17 AM

Keith - not nasty... just over robust sarcasm, which I accept now in the cold light of day as maybe going a little too far... apologies..

But it was born out of exasperation and boredom with your constantly repetitive style of [non] debate...

In my life I honestly have encountered a few individuals with similar obsessive mindsets of denial as yours,
nearly all when involved in voluntary work in my late teens & 20s.

That bloke I mentioned was real and truly sad.
He was very intelligent and educated, well presented in his business suit;
but since his personal misfortunes, something had snapped in his mind.
Sitting there all day in the drop in centre, forlornly clutching his briefcase,
awaiting the next unsuspecting new listener to sit next to him.
Repeating the exact same word for word story over and over.....
and laying out the contents of his briefcase,
documents that 'proved' he was right and not to be blamed.......

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 04:26 AM

Well, Keith, I'm a patient man. Apart from the blatant Wheatcroft misquote, which you want me to stop mentioning (simple way of achieving that: admit it. Even Teribus knows you made a mistake, though "honest mistake" could be pushing it a bit), you misrepresented Jackie Butler by leaving inconvenient bits out of the quote (a misquote, in other words) and you misrepresented me by trying to bracket me with people who are ardently pro-Israel. It's all silly, avoidable behaviour that never helps your case and, worst of all, you never, ever backtrack. Pig-headedness, mindless stubbornness and hubris can't see you through. Very sad.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 03:52 AM

"They said it was a "serious issue.""
A major Party being accused of Antisemitism is a serious issue - there is no indication whatever that those accusations have any foundation and only two pro-Israeli extremists have suggested that (surprise- surprise)
"I did not say "major problem" so you made that up."
You have suggested that people within the Labour Party, including "many labour party members" have - you made it up
Making up such things is tantamount to saying there is a major problem - you lied and you lied when you claimed to have put it up - you are now serially lying to prove there is a serious problem within the Labour Party - otherwise, why would you be behaving the way you are?
"Sadiq Khan and the entire NEC!"
See what I mean
Both have not suggested there is a serious problem with Antisemitism - Sadiq himself has been accused of Antisemitism too.
They have addressed the fact that the Labour Party is under attack, Sadiq has questioned how that attack is being handled, what enquiries that have been held have absolved the Labour Party and no accusation can possibly be made until the matter has been gone into fully - except by you, it seems, tat appears to be the way you work.
As I said, the Conservative Party is the traditional home of British Antisemitism and it would take a complete groundshift to alter that position.
The term 'Antisemitism' has been rendered totally meaningless by the Israeli policy of hiding behind it to defend its own State terrorist activities.
Claims are now coming from Israel that any criticism of Israeli policy is automatically Antisemitic - why do you refuse to address that fact (rhetorical question - I know why)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 02:59 AM

As for me allegedly failing to provide examples (of my misquoting), I've done it in this thread until I'm blue in the face.

No you have not.
If you are not lying, produce an example now.

Pfr, please discuss the issues instead of getting all personal and nasty.

My case is that Labour people have accused other Labour people of antisemitism, backed it with quotes, and have not misquoted anyone.

I am offline now for a few days.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 06:26 PM

Keith - it's clicked now..

you remind me of when i did voluntary work in my last year of A levels nearly 40 years ago..

A middle aged bloke in a suit who'd lost his business and family..

He sat in the waiting room of our community project office with a brief case clutched tight in his arms....

Anyone who made the mistake of sitting next to him, endured his life story and misfortunes, as he unravelled the contents of his brief case....

We in the office soon enough wised up to this and tried our best to be sympathetic, whilst avoiding his brief case being opened.....

Point of recognition is, he had failed to cope with reality and blamed unknown and unseen forces in the government and space and time
for all his personal problems relating to the rest of us....

weird mad old world.... innit... 🤔

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 06:19 PM

You're a very sad case, Keith. Read what Jim has said. He has comprehensively demolished you. As for me allegedly failing to provide examples, I've done it in this thread until I'm blue in the face. You are the only person here who refuses to see it. People ask me why I bother. Well I'll tell you. You wreck every debate here that you join in with. I'd rather like you to stop doing it, preferably by butting out, so that decent people can discuss difficult issues without the automatic insertion of your bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 02:41 PM

No-one claims there is a major problem, so you made that up,

They said it was a "serious issue."
I did not say "major problem" so you made that up.

You didn't and still haven't - once again, this is all your own work
You have produced a couple who have been identified directly with Isreali propaganda organisations.

Sadiq Khan and the entire NEC!

I dispute "Israeli propaganda organisations" anyway.
Being pro-Israel, as most people are, does not mean your views on antisemitism can be dismissed.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 01:30 PM

Keith
Been through all your links
Many are based on definition of Antisemitism, around a quarter of them are repeated
Nowhere is there any indication of the "many labour party members" you claim, so you made that up.
No-one claims there is a major problem, so you made that up,
Some complain of how it is being dealt with, though do not suggest it is widespread.
Not doing too well so far
The only two who have made direct accusations are Jonathan Sacerdoti, the BBC's self-admitted Pro Israeli mole and Jim Brown – extreme right winger and member of Pro-Israeli propaganda organisations.
Apart from that, nothing to indicate there is a problem, all your own work – smoke and mirrors.
When you claimed you had linked to there being a problem – you lied (again)
"It's getting to be a habit with you " as the old song says.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 11:46 AM

"I quoted prominent Labour people who said that there is."
You didn't and still haven't - once again, this is all your own work
You have produced a couple who have been identified directly with Isreali propaganda organisations.
Nobody who can be trusted not to have an agenda has claimed there to be a serious problem - if they have, you have failed to identify them.
Any time such and accusation is made it is necessary to investigate it and any fair minded individual would not pass judgement until an unbiased conclusion was arrived at.
Such enquiries that have been made so far have exonorated the Labour Party - no evidence has been produced to show theer to be a problem, serious or otherwise
You totally invented the "a lot of Labour members are disturbed" - no such claim has ever been made.
As I said, the "leading figures" have all been traced back to the Israeli Propagands industry.
Once again, you are making things up - that seems to be what you
SADIQ KHAN has himself been linked to antisemitism through his (claimed ) association with Islamists, so, coupled with the mayoral competition, it is little wonder that he should bend over backwards to appease the Israeli supporters.
"I substantiated it with actual quotes!!"
No you havent unless you regard a coupe of unidentified names as
"a lot of Labour members.
Ther is no evidence whatever that there is a problem with Antisemitism in the Labour Pary - none, and nor can there be until the matter is investigated fully and fairly - which totally lets you our of being selected for any such jury.
The Conservative Party is the traditional home of British Antisemitism - not the Labour Party
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 11:22 AM

Pfr,
... did I ????

Yes. You acknowledged that I was a victim of a smear campaign, saying it should make me empathise with other such victims (though I disputed the example you gave).

If you do not accept that I am such a victim, you must believe that I am guilty of misquoting on this.
Steve has failed to produce any examples, so perhaps you can.

But, good luck with your mum and her problems.

Jim,
You opened this thread and contnued it by inferring that there was a serious problem of Antisemitism in the ranks of the Labour Party - there isn't.

I quoted prominent Labour people who said that there is.

What there is is a need to address accusations of Antisemitism made by identified supporters of the Israeli regime

Sadiq Khan?
The Labour Party National Executive Committee?

You claim that a lot of Labour members are disturbed "Lots of Labour members and its NEC say there is a problem," yet you have ignored requests to substantiate this claim

I substantiated it with actual quotes!!
Which would you like me to repeat?

Re. the rest of your post, this is not about Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 09:03 AM

"If you are right you could produce examples of what you accuse me of."
You accuse others of making this "about me" - now you are diverting this away from the main topic and making it about you.
You opened this thread and contnued it by inferring that there was a serious problem of Antisemitism in the ranks of the Labour Party - there isn't.
What there is is a need to address accusations of Antisemitism made by identified supporters of the Israeli regime
It is dishonest of you not to address that fact - that is distorting the real picture of what is now happening.
You claim that a lot of Labour members are disturbed "Lots of Labour members and its NEC say there is a problem," yet you have ignored requests to substantiate this claim - that is distorting the real picture of what is now happening.
You have thrown your weight fully behind what appears to be a part of the $1B dollar propaganda campaign launched by Israel to make any critisism of its policies 'Antisemitic' - that is distorting the real picture of what is now happening.
To date, a few members have been found to choose their words unwisely in criticising the genocidal policy of the Israeli regime - hardly surprising when the Israeli leaders themselves are in the forefront of identifying their extremist policies with The Jewish People as a whole, even though some of the greatest critics of that policy are Jewish - now disgustingly described as "self--hating Jews - these include Holocaust survivors and their families, ex heads of Mossad, an Army General, part of the Israeli press, groups like Jews for Justice and Rabbis for Justice and leading Jewish intellectuals GOIINNG BACK AS FAR AS Einstein and his collegues- all "self-hating Jews".
One Israeli Minister has described any criticism of Israel as ANTISEMITIC
That is terrifying and harks back to the rise on the Nazi regime in Germany.
Yesterday it was claimed that Netanyahu took a MILLION EURO BRIBE from a financier – Israel's current logic is that it is Antisemitic to draw attention to this fact - (virtually admitted by him though he excuses it by saying he used it to win an election)
Israel has succeeded in distorting the term Anti-Semitism to protect itself from human rights and crimes against humanity charges.
In doing to it has put the lives of Jews throughout the world at risk and the fact that it has chosen the British Labour Party as a target threatens our own parliamentary democracy.
You have made yourself part of that campaign and that is unforgivable.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 08:52 AM

... did I ????

.. and what exactly has Steve been consistently saying about you misquoting and distoring what people actually say.....????? 😣

Btw.. you two have fun together..
it's thursday, I'm off on a train to try to sort out my old mum's regular problems with her falling apart at the seems local NHS health clinic...

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 08:38 AM

...but thanks for backing me on Steve's smear campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 08:36 AM

errrmmm.. so maybe now you might understand a little of how the Labour Party feels after being maliciously branded anti semites.

errrmmm...no, because they never have been by anyone.
The accusations I quoted came from within the Labour Party, and merely suggested that the far left had a problem with it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 07:08 AM

"You could not challenge what I said so you launch a lying and mendacious smear campaign against me personally."

Keith - errrmmm.. so maybe now you might understand a little of how the Labour Party feels after being maliciously branded anti semites...????? 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 04:32 AM

No need to poll.
If you are right you could produce examples of what you accuse me of.
But you can't.

You could not challenge what I said so you launch a lying and mendacious smear campaign against me personally.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 03:43 PM

Well I suppose we could always conduct a poll to see who's right. Oh wait - no - I forgot that your best friend uses secret multiple identities...not fair...

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 02:45 PM

Steve, you accused me "Keith, you deliberately misquote all the time."

So why can you only produce one example, from a year and a half ago, that has been rebutted several times already and has been again?!

You also accused me of misquoting on this thread, but you have produced no examples at all!
You can't because it is not true.

I invite anyone here, both pro-Steve and anti-Steve, to investigate the things I've said about Keith's lack of truthfulness.

I invite them too.
They could start with your false accusations about this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 05:34 AM

It's a notable feature of most online forums I've experienced that mistakes that are promptly admitted to and corrected are never commented on again. Conversely, people who are too proud or too pig-headed to backtrack rapidly attract a reputation of untrustworthiness and lack of credibility about everything they assert.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 05:24 AM

That's all right then Steve
Don't let this pair of clowns waste time in trying to recoup old losses
You want examples of your misquotes an lies Keith - go to the Easter Week thread - plenty listed there without having to search them out.
Jim Carroll