BS: Chemtrails

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 07:23 PM

Darn, Rebel....you got me to thinking about things I posted here some time ago and was ridiculed for.

9-11-1991. Bush Sr. at the U.N. talking about the 'New World Order'. Ten years to the day later, his son is hiding behind a shield of children as the Sept 11 attacks occur. These people are OBSESSED with numerology.

And Oklahoma Gov. Keating's brother knew TWO YEARS BEFORE the bombing in OK City what was coming up. Tim McVeigh had already been singled out as the Lee Harvey Oswald mind-control patsy for the Murrah bldg. crime, and Keating's brother wrote a novel about an extremist bomber named 'Tom McVey'.

Final Jihad

WHAT DOES IT TAKE, PEOPLE! THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PIECES OF EVIDENCE LIKE THIS LYING AROUND! And these murderers are just getting bolder and bolder. They now have a mass-kidnapping system in place. Go to 'code red', all schools lock down, parents aren't allowed in and the kids are taken to a 'relocation point'. That's in the Homeland Security Bill. Psychopathic murderers have TOLD you they plan to kidnap your kids! Wake UP!

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 06:45 PM

No...I'm not from the Minneapolis area, Rebel...he sent me that email I posted and said he'd follow up, but I'm sure he's busy...haven't heard from him. I was just surprised HE would bring up the subject of chemtrails. They have a homepage I found when I did a search, so you might want to bookmark that and follow it. Maybe he has a newsgroup or something. Paul Douglas is his name, and I was gratified he personally responded. Most people in TV now have such fear driven into them by the psy-ops managers that very little honesty is heard.

Sure, send me a mailing address at [e-mail] and I'll get a tape in the mail. The online thing is crummy quality, but...I don't know...if you're American and watch something like that and are not absolutely consumed with rage, then you're in a coma. I'm afraid we're past the point of no return, but maybe not. Their crimes are SO OPEN, all it would take is some somelight to drive the lot of them out of office.

What I'm talking about is a tape called '911-The Road to Tyranny', folks. I make copies and hand them out. Proof the govt blew up the Murrah bldg and the WTC. Makes you want to cry, then it makes you furious those serial killers are going to send our kids off to war. Or it should.

And Don, Sand Point was a crucial point in American History...for the reasons I've mentioned over and over. Next came George W. Bush killing 3,000 people on Sept 11. Big events. Now we're on the eve of Americans being locked in concentration camps with no legal representation. I don't care if you believe me or not. It's all true. You're welcomed to one of the tapes I just offered Rustic Rebel. Send me a mailing address at [e-mail] and I'll send one out. Free. It contains some references to Sand Point. Media Mail from Texas...takes a while to get there.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 05:26 PM

Dreaded- I just checked out 49 minutes of that tape through your link. I have to tell you I found it very compelling, disturbing, frightening and convincing. I found the interview with David Schippers (chief investigating councel of house judiciary committee) interesting. He quoted Ben Franklin that went something like; They that give up liberties for security will eventually lose both your liberties and security.
Another thing I found of interest was the speech Bush Jr. gave on Sept. 11, 1991 talking about a new world order. Coincidence?
One more thing I will mention is the book Martin Keating wrote- The Final Jihad, about the Oklahoma City bombing. The book was written two years before the incident and named a T. Mcvie in the book. And speaking of that, David Schippers also mentioned that he heard something else was going to take place in Oklahoma City.
I will get ahold of you, yes thanks I do believe I would like to view the entire tape.

And speaking of Oklahoma, I am pretty sure that is where there were recent reports in the thousands of a white substance covering cars, homes, people. No, it wasn't snow! I just can't remember exactly where I heard about this.
Peace. Rustic
PS. Oh yeah, one more thing, that report from WCCO sparked my interest. That is the channel I watch for weather most times. Are you keeping up with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:37 PM

Dearest Benighted Guest, those folks weren't arrested for asserting their First Amendment rights, they were arrested for smashing windows, setting fires, and general vandalism. And the Federal Government didn't get into it at all.

I don't care if you have a dozen reams of your own writings. A dozen tons of bovine droppings is still a helluva pile of fertilizer, and no matter how you ballyhoo it, it will still have quite an aroma.

As far as my "supporting fascism" is concerned, that's another of your delusional fever-dreams. People here know where I stand. I participate in two very effective peace organizations, and have for years now. I write a great deal, and the bulk of my writing does not appear here on the internet, it appears in magazine articles, letters to editors, Op Ed articles, and in letters and e-mails to congresspersons and other people in positions of power.

I used to be the news director at a radio station, so 1) I know how to find good, reliable sources of information and I make it a point to get my facts straight; 2) I know how to get my stuff out there where it will be the most effective; and 3) I present well-reasoned and well-supported arguments, so people tend to listen to me and to read my stuff. I don't just rant and rave. The reason I know a lot of the things I know is that I was there. I didn't just read it on some website!

You, on the other hand, tend to alienate the very people you want to convince by being frantic and hysterical and backing up your unsupported assertions by citing well-known garbage websites. Then if someone questions what you've written, instead of trying to support it with reliable data, you get insulting. Great way to convince others of your viewpoint!

Complex conspiracy theories have been around for God knows how long, and they seem to have an appeal to a certain kind of mind. Have you ever read The True Believer by Eric Hoffer? It's a portrait of you.

'Bye now. I've got more important things to do than argue with you.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Benign Guest
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:31 AM

Don, I'm giving up trying to make a dent in your dotage. As your postscript points out, American citizens were detained in a naval brig for practicing first amendment rights. Sorry it had to happen in your neighborhood, but it did, and it's just part of the process of acclimating us to martial law. Your city just passed an ordinance against the Patriot Act, which is good, but your cops detained citizens in a naval brig so the Feds could bring maritime law into play, which was bad. You win some you lose some.

I'm just trying to collect all the posts I made here and don't WANT to beat you over the head with the blunt object of your own wit, but you keep ASKING for it. A historic event in the rise of fascist America took place in your fair city. Revel in it. You're supporting this rise to fascism, so make sure people KNOW you live near the place where the feds first tested the use of maritime rules of engagement against grandmothers and peaceniks.

XOXOXO

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 04:57 PM

To clarify the figures before our visiting nincompoop tries to use it as evidence that I'm dotty, 153 were booked at the King County Jail, but they only had room for 53 of them, so they put approximately 100 back on the buses to rejoin the 300 already on the buses, to be sent to Sand Point and detained there until the paperwork could be completed, lawyers contacted, and parents of many juveniles told to come and pick up their kids. End of clarification.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 04:44 PM

Okay, Dreaded Guest, you have established beyond all doubt that you really are the south end of a northbound horse.

I won't bore you with the details of my brother-in-law's sterling qualifications other than to say that he learned to fly in the Air National Guard where he flew F-89 Scorpions for twelve years. In civilian life during this time, he taught math in high school. Then he hired on with Northwest Airlines where he learned to fly the big ones (Boeing 747s, Douglas DC-10s, etc.). For almost three decades he flew a number of routes all over the world, much of that time between the U. S. and the Orient (Japan, Hong Kong, et al). He recently passed his 60th birthday, and he is now retired because, ageism notwithstanding, Northwest has a policy of retiring pilots when they reach 60. He has also flown a wide variety of small, private planes. His son (my nephew) cut his teeth in small aircraft by working for several years as a bush pilot in Alaska, then he followed in his father's footsteps and has now been flying for Southwest Airlines for several years.

They both know quite a bit about contrails because they have made a bunch of them.

How long have you been hanging in mid-air, wise guy?

Now, it looks like my shooting you down on the Sand Point thing really got up your nose. You can't seem to let it go. So, as a public service, and for the sheer, mean-spirited joy of the thing, let me rub it in one more time. Brace yourself!

Let's take it from the top:—

Out of the 40,000 who demonstrated at the WTO conference in Seattle in 1999, some 450 were arrested for assault, setting fires, smashing windows, and otherwise disrupting what was intended to be a peaceful protest. 153 were booked at the King County Jail, which filled the facility to capacity. The remaining 400 were transported on Metro buses (regular city buses that people take to and from work) to Magnusen Park (formerly the Sand Point Naval Air Station) to be booked and processed—by the Seattle Police, not any Federal agency. Most of the protesters remained on the buses, and fourteen were taken to cells in the old brig, because they in particular had been arrested for vandalizing property. The brig was built to handle the occasional salt who was picked up by the police or the shore patrol for getting a bit tipsy or rowdy while on shore leave. It consists of ten (10) cells, about the size of the average jail cell. Fourteen people actually exceeds the capacity of the brig. So it could hardly be called—or used as—a "concentration camp."

Some years ago, the naval air station was decommissioned and turned over by the City of Seattle. The City of Seattle turned it into a park, naming it after long-time Washington State Senator Warren G. Magnusen. The brig is in basement of Building 406, which now consists of meeting rooms and classrooms. Magnusen Park is a nice place to go for a picnic on a sunny afternoon and children often go there to feed the ducks who frequent the shores of Lake Washington. My wife and I once attended a wedding reception there, and although they offer all kinds of classes there, I have never taken a class there, not even Art Therapy, as you suggested (although I have taken many courses in illustration, life drawing, cartooning, and aeronautical drafting). I do, however, know people who have. My wife recently attended an antique show in one of the buildings at Magnusen Park.

Magnusen Park, located at the former Sand Point Naval Air Station.

If you're interested in taking a look at the old brig, I'm quite sure the Seattle Parks Department would be amenable to taking you on a tour of the place. The telephone number for the Magnusen Park facility is 206-684-4218.

Or would you find that too frightening?

Don Firth

P.S., I find the following note on a flyer for "TREEmendous," an environmental group:

" May 5, Friday - Chili Feed and Annual Meeting - Come see our new office at Sand Point Naval Station. We will have our Chili Feed and Annual meeting in 'the brig'. Any of you WTO veterans shouldn't have any trouble finding it."

Now. Why don't you go make an appointment with a good counselor and leave the adults alone?

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,disgusted
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:54 PM

I just don't understand why someone doesn't keep this poster "Dreaded Guest" from holding us hostage to his psychosis. I think this has gone far enough!

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:41 PM

So this is all a "made you look" trick? How juvenile. Why don't you just call up the local drugstore and ask if they have Prince Albert in a can?

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: leprechaun
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:10 PM

Escaped from a Mental Institution GUEST - There's no way Don's site can be bogus. It's on the internet isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 01:06 PM

Don's brother-in-law is a retired pilot, obviously retired for feeble-mindedness. Whereas my brother-in-law will always be a clown and therefore an authority. I'll take his word over Don's grounded pilot any day. And yeah, cute links. WW3 will be sandwiched in between a lost dog story and a movie review on the evening news, which is what was done with chemtrails on Don's bogus site.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 11:11 AM

Don had some good links there, DG. And an authoritative observer, in an NW pilot. Why don't you run this particular question and set of photos by your local weather guy?

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 08:49 AM

Yeah well my brother-in-law is a clown and reminds me of you. You just got nailed for your ignorance (Sand Point revisited), so why don't you drop it?

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 03:40 PM

If you knew anything about meteorology, you would know that air currents, just like water currents, can vary widely in temperature. Nothing anomalous there. My brother-in-law is a retired Northwest Airlines pilot, and he says that it doesn't happen very often, but it isn't really that unusual for there to be a break in a contrail.

Sorry. Doesn't wash.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 01:24 PM

Here, Don...a photo from your authoritative site:

Chemtrail with break in it

In talking about the above photo, the article at the URL below says:

"He posits that the breaks are caused by jets having "simply passed through a pocket of air where contrails" - carefully, he doesn,t refer to them as "chemtrails"! - "will not form. The air could be too warm or too dry to form the ice crystals which make a contrail visible."

It is eminently unlikely, if not patently impossible, that air that high up would be so warm, to begin with. The jets that form chemtrails typically fly at at least three miles high. Even if it was too warm, a trail, of sorts, of water vapor would be likely, following the jet. And, even if the air were very dry, a trace of the ice crystals from the jet engines, that supposedly form the "seed" for the chemtrail, should be visible, and it is not.

And that is leaving aside, entirely, the fact that there is little reason to believe that an isolated, tiny, patch of air could be so radically different from the overwhelming mass of air around it! If an area of warm or dry air were to intrude, it is likely that it would be no time before the rest of the air around it would bring it into equilibrium.

More than that, though, Mr. Ernst, will have to explain how it is possible for chemtrails with breaks, supposedly caused by differing air masses, to occur in close proximity to chemtrails with no breaks!
"I'll leave it at that and let you be the judge", he concludes archly.

If he's telling the absolute, incontrovertible truth, which he pretends to be, then he would be able to call it that! He wouldn't have to leave it to the reader to "be the judge".

That, in itself, all but brands the material on the Seawana site utterly untrustworthy...."

Chemtrails discussion

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:39 PM

Chemtrails. Follow the links to the photos and the explanations thereof. I guess it gives people who love conspiracies and who have too much time on their hands something to do. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 01:04 PM

One of the early articles I read on this topic was about a fly-over in Nova Scotia. The person writing the article said when he noticed the planes begin their spraying, he and his family took water samples from ponds, then the next day took another group of samples and had it all analyzed. The most striking thing about the test results was a 15 times increase in aluminum particulates in the samples taken the second day.

So it's being done. I have trouble believing it's for 'atmosphere control'...suspect the govt seized on one of Edward Teller's less insightful papers to give the program some credibility. The govt tossed Teller's paper out to the media and thought no one would dare question the world-renouned scientist, but Teller also wanted to use nukes on the eastern seaboard of the U.S. to create new harbors. And now, people in their forties are mysteriously coming down with Alzheimers after having their brains clogged with aluminum. In the U.S., at least. Not sure about the rest of the world.

I guess Salt Lake city would be a good case study on Alzheimers, since that's where the most intense spraying has occurred. The govt reports say Salt Lake is a perfect 'test area' for their weather modification experiments, but I doubt the Mormons believe that. They've been hounded by the U.S. govt forever, and now the U.S. govt has control of Utah's air space just like the 'no fly' zones in Iraq. They're probably being poisoned because they, the Mormons, WOULD be a unified force capable of challenging an army.

We're being poisoned, some faster than other.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,Giddyupgo
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:35 PM

You are goddam right they are spraying us. They are spraying us with paranoia enzymes. I am damned glad I discovered this before I became paranoid.

Giddyup Go

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Peg
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:27 PM

the thing about Alzheimers is, it's only really occurring at high rates in the United States...so if this aluminum spraying is the cause, it seems as though we'd be seeing an increase of it in other countries as well, wouldn't we?

I do believe it is related to some sort of chemical or toxin absorption...some environmental factor; but who knows what?

I stopped using aluminum-containing anti-perspirants years ago, just in case...

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:09 AM

Rustic Rebel & Donuel...

I make copies of this tape and distribute it in my area, on eBay and online. If you'd like a free copy, I'd be glad to send each of you one:

TAPE

I appreciate your interest in the chemtrails topic and think you might get something of value from the tape. If you're interested, just e-mail me at [e-mail] with a mailing address, and I'll get a copy in the mail to you. I ship Media Mail, so they take a while to arrive.

Thanks for your links on the chemtrails thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:01 AM

Feb 24 I sent the following e-mail to the meteorologist at WCCO-TV in Minneapolis (see post on this thread from that date). I sent the e-mail below:

Hello Mr. Douglas,

I was wondering if you followed up on the Feb 15 piece in which you said, "Recently our new radar technology at WCCO-TV and government NEXRAD radar have detected a baffling phenomenon: Skies were crystal clear, yet the radar screen was scribbled with 200-mile-long contrails..."

This is an intriguing story, and I'd appreciate any further information.

Thank you.
--------------

I just received this reply:

Thanks for your note....we're still baffled by the phenomena, but I have a strong hunch that it is related to defense department experimentations, possibly related to the upcoming crisis in Iraq. A number of other viewers have brought up "chem trails" as a possible explanation, and I would certainly not rule this out. As soon as we find out more definitive information we'll try and share it with everyone!

Best wishes, and thanks for watching.

Paul Douglas
------------

This is the e-mail I received from him, EXACTLY as I received it. HE brought up chemtrails (I didn't mention it in the e-mail), and HE tied it to Iraq. ONE OF THE PRE-EMINENT METEOROLIGISTS IN MINNEAPOLIS IS QUESTIONING HIS GOVT IN PUBLIC! EXCELLENT!

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: TIA
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:24 PM

Oh sh_t, there's white stuff falling from the sky here (again). It certainly looks like snow, but the man on the weather channel is saying it is snow (to throw us off), so it's definitely something else. In addition, the city has said that they will probably institute the "snow" emergency plan tonight. Hmmmmm.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 12:15 PM

The German people (even the ones who lived next to Auschwitz) claimed to have no knowledge of what was going on with the Jews, even with smokestacks working 24/7. The power of the human mind to deny the obvious must be some kind of survival trait...a method of preserving sanity in the face of the stupefying...but when you can look at the sky and see the things and go online and look at lab analyses of the stuff going into you lungs after a fly-over, I would think it'd make you more insane if you ignored it. Getting angry and venting would be in order at that point, not ignoring. And I find it hard to believe each and every one of you hasn't seen these trails. It may not have struck you as odd at the time, but it should now...since you read and commented on this thread. So the denial is curious. Survival instinct? 'Crab' made a reasoned argument, then he/she blows any credibility by saying ALL the thousands of photos are doctored. And he/she claims to be an expert on topic because of hang-gliding experience. A hang-glider claiming expertise on contrails. Pretty desperate attempt to discredit. Insanity, or vested interest?

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Grab
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 06:34 AM

Guest, when you find a picture that looks anything different from a normal jet contrail (doctored or not), let me know. As a hang-glider pilot myself, I do like looking at nice pictures of sky.

I just *love* that "black light" thing. Anyone with a black light lamp (or who's been to a nightclub) knows that washing powder residues fluoresce quite nicely under UV light.

"It's amazing. So much information." And all of it utterly bogus. Gotta love it...

Graham.

PS. Oh, it's now extended past just the politicians, the military, and everyone who works for them or has ever worked for them. All policemen, airport controllers and pilots are now also part of the conspiracy, according to the sites above. At this rate, there's going to be more ppl involved in the conspiracy than not!

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: JennyO
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 06:31 AM

SRS, I hope you have told 'Spaw about that site!

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:37 AM

DG- that site is a wild ride. Those people that created it are a trip. Their own thing on there is a lot of dream deciphering, but they must have over a thousand links to phenomenon.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 11:35 PM

Ed--sorry to disagree, but surely this is more important!

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: UB Ed
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 11:20 PM

I think this is really important:
Click here

Check out the rubber broom while you're there.

Greg, there are a number of variations for the D chord...

Ed

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 10:59 PM

The reason you're not getting any response on this, O Dreadful One, is that you're too late. Years ago, there was a conspiracy between the Rockefeller family and the drug companies to turn the populace into a bunch of obedient, mindless slaves by putting fluoride in our drinking water under the guise of reducing tooth cavities. We've been drinking fluoridated water for years now, and we are so mentally impaired that your alarums are are futile. We are totally apathetic and beyond saving. Too bad. So sad. You are the only sane, intelligent one left on the planet.

Don (note the vacuous smile) Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 10:13 PM

Well, people ARE conspiring to dump this stuff on you, so wouldn't that make YOU the lunatic if you want to ignore it?

I can't believe folks would rather NOT know about this stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 10:08 PM

Why don't all of you conspiracy lunatics all get together and commit mass suicide. According to you we are all going to die anyway, get it over with and let us normal people live in peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 10:03 PM

Don't feed them and maybe they'll go away.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 09:23 PM

greatdreams.com

Rustic Rebel's excellent link. Many independent links with some text and photos posted on the main page. Below is an excerpt from the main page. Please forgive the cut and paste, but the page takes about five minutes to open. Look at this:

So far some of the chemicals that were collected from the chemtrail spray and lab tested is:
1. Bacilli & Molds
2. Pseudomonas Aeruginosa
3. Pseudomonas Florescens
4. Bacilli Amyloliquefaciens
5. Streptomyces
6. Enterobacteriaceae
7. Serratia Marcscens
8. Human White Blood Cells
9. A restricter enzyme used in research labs to snip and combine DNA
10. Enterobacter Cloacae
11. Other bacilli and other toxic molds capable of producing heart disease and meningitis, as well as acute upper respiratory and gastrointestinal distress.
12. JP-8 Jet Fuel = Ethylene Dibromide

# 2. Pseudomonas Aeruginosa = Respiratory tract infection by the ubiquitous bacterium. Cancer and burn patients also commonly suffer attack from this organism. Unlike other bacteria that reside in the enviroment, P. aeruginosa has a remarkable capacity to cause disease. Pseudomonas has the ability to adapt and thrive in many ecological niches, including humans. Once infections are established, P. aeruginosa produces a number of toxic proteins which cause not only extensive tissue damage, but also interfere with the human immune system's defense mechanisms. These proteins range from potent toxins that enter and kill host cells at or near the size of colonization to degradative enzymes that permantly disrupt the cell membranes and connective tissues in various organs. P. aeruginosa successfully colonizes the respiratory tract. One reason is that it produces a highly protective capsule made of the mucoid polysaccharide alginate. This allows the bacteria to resist engulfment by immune system cells and better adhere to the lining of the lungs. It is likely that antibiotics cannot effectively eradicate Pseudomonas from the lungs because of this protective capsule. In addition, some Pseudomonas strains can inactivate the drugs that threaten them by using enzymes to modify the drug.

# 7. Serratia Marcescens is a significant opportunistic human bacterial pathogen. This microorganism has been shown to be the cause of many life-threatening diseases such as pneumonia, meningitis and endocarditis. It is one of the major causes of hospital-acquired infections. The seriousness of a S. marcescens infection is compounded by the fact that it is very resistant to most commonly used antibotics, thus making treatment difficult. In this study one of the factors contributing to the antibiotic resistance of S. marcescens will be examined. In order for an antibiotic to kill or inhibit growth of bacteria it must penetrate the outer surface or membrane and enter the bacterial cell which is very difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 08:59 PM

EGAD! Why didn't I see this before? You're right Maggie! Thanks!

Knida like watching Spongebob Squarepants!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 08:30 PM

Thanks for posting the links, Rebel. I read the article at the first one earlier and recognized it from long ago. I'm surprised my search earlier didn't turn it up...it's one of the first ones I ever read.

And I'm looking at the second site now. It's amazing. So much information...

Black Light...filaments

Story above is from Rebel's second site...one of the hundreds of links...story about ultra-violet, black light, exposure after chem trail spraying. and this crap is going into your lungs.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 05:00 PM

I heard an Art Bell broadcast years ago about this. His guest was an air traffic controller, confirming that it was a military operation for weather modification. Which it could be. He said that the military is pouring aluminum into the sky to reflect the sunlight.The aluminum creates sickness to many people. IF that is what is in these chemtrails. It is one theory that I can believe.
There was nationwide protests in 1999 trying to stop this from happening, but just take a look right here on this thread at what the majority thinks, that shows you how much denial there is, in contrast worldwide.
Just a couple of weeks ago I saw these same effects in the sky in MN. I commented on them when I saw them.
I am going to also post a link to an interesting article and a site that has numerous articles and links including a number of military articles on weather control.

Nexus Mag. article

greatdreams
(this site has the most informative article way down at the bottom)

RR

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 03:48 PM

Your govt and environmental groups encourage you to hug trees while dumping a hundred different toxins on you. The evidence is in the sky if you just lift up your eyes. If you need further proof, go to the govt's own releases TELLING you they've sprayed you with Sarin nerve gas.

There...that's as simple as I can make it.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 02:37 PM

"Dreaded Guest"? No...pathetic, perhaps, but I guess we provide a needed outlet for his/her paranoia and other mental aberations.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 02:11 PM

Oh...and as for the elite murdering themselves, they have bunkers to escape all this. They have alternate food sources and will survive. And yes, they are capable of something this monstrous. Hitler was human and Stalin probably drew pictures of flowers in school. Your problem is you just can't imagine the magnitude of the deeds these sociopaths are contemplating.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 02:04 PM

Gee, Grab...U.S. planes spraying Sarin nerve gas on you people doesn't worry you? Sounds like the stuff did it's job. And it's OK to haul naturally-occurring ground crap up into the air and hit us with it from above? Sounds like YOU are the one with things upside-down. The pictures are not doctored. There are thousands of them on the internet. And I recalled reading about the streams donuel mentioned near DC...read about those back when it happened, when all commercial aircraft were supposed to be grounded. Those things initially caused a bit of a panic because all planes were SUPPOSED to be grounded.

For some reason, Monsanto and other companies are being allowed to go forward with tens of thousands of gene-splicing experiments...affecting our food crops, animal food sources, etc. Meanwhile, the environmentalists are being focused on the same old cliched issues. But the questions remain...why are unpredictable and irrevocable gene-tampering experiments being allowed, and why are known pollutants being intentionally dumped on us from aircraft?

An attempt is being made to either weaken our immune systems or change our genetics. Some of the things we're now being exposed to (modified corn, etc) CAN change genetic make-up once it is metabolized. Maybe this is the population-control device some of you referred to. Someday, the cumulative effect of all this will be lowered sperm count or female infertility, and the 'population problem' will be a thing of the past. Personally (since we're being threatened with forced injections now), I hold with the idea of the weakened immune system leading to death after injection.

And the Porton Downs stuff...30-40 years is NOTHING to a government which intentionally issued smallpox-infected blankets to Native Americans. It was YESTERDAY the U.S. Airforce sprayed the Brits with Sarin nerve gas. I'm sure you DO want to debunk this, but you haven't succeeded. You're scared. And rightly so.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 01:41 PM

Grab,

Tongue in cheek really helps when participating in this thread. But you did a nice rebuttal--I have only dipped into a couple of sites to get the gist of what the argument was. Now that we have a handle for this Guest, I kind of look forward to seeing what he'll come up with next. (This isn't, however, an endorsement for starting lots of new threads. I think we can afford some major thread creep on some of these BS threads and keep it all in one place).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Grab
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 01:29 PM

In your convenient Google search, Guest, it came up with this site which comprehensively debunks "chemtrails", specifically mentioning the first site on the Google search (www.carnicon.com) as being the subject of a hoax. Of the other sites on that Google search page, all of them posit alien or paranormal activity. And all those photos "proving" this look like plain old contrails to me (and to meteorologists who've looked at them, apparently). I don't know how any reasonable person could consider this "evidence".

As far as "spraying bacteria" goes, your sites mention spraying with Bacillus Thuringia as one of the elements of that "chaff" spray. See this link for details of that bacterium. The key quote is "Bacillus thuringiensis (or Bt) is a naturally occurring soil bacterium that can be found widespread in nature. It is known as a insect pathogen that is a simple spore forming, infectious bacterium. As a spore Bt produces toxin crystals that are unique crystalline endotoxins. This feature makes it a powerful insecticide that has no or little environmental repercussions." Shit, it shouldn't be allowed, spraying us with harmless substances...

I miss the relevance of your last link. Petroleum products are difficult to clean up when they spill, and engineered (through natural breeding or otherwise) bacteria which would break them down are one possibly solution for this. I have no idea what you're talking about with the word "plasma", because this doesn't figure anywhere (unless you've misunderstood the meaning of the word "plasmid" used by biologists).

Regarding your other posts, I don't have any problems believing that the nutters at Porton Down were playing silly bastards in the 60s and 70s - we know this for a solid fact. These are the guys who've made Gruinard Island in Scotland uninhabitable by covering it with anthrax. In context, this was at the height of the Cold War, and the military were going for broke on all this stuff in all countries. I believe there was an accident in the US around the same time, where a military site in Ohio nearly gassed an entire city through accidentally releasing some nerve toxin - fortunately the wind was in the wrong direction. If people are going to play silly bastards, shit happens and things go wrong. Accidents happen.

However, it's one thing to suggest that there have been accidents or that the military has run tests on their land, and an entirely nother thing to suggest that they plan on poisoning all of us, INCLUDING themselves. That requires a serious level of proof to convince us, evidence which can't be ignored. You have not provided sufficient proof to convince me, personally, and it seems you haven't convinced anyone else either. Your evidence is utterly flimsy.

I've quite prepared to believe all politicians are all a bunch of devious weasels. However I'm less prepared to believe they're all mass-murderers who are prepared to not only murder other people, but also to kill their families and themselves. Every single politician in the US and the UK? And all their aides, assistants, secretaries, etc? bcos they'd have to be in on the conspiracy too. I think not, somehow.

To quote Carl Sagan: "They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." Everyone else posting on this board thinks your ideas are ridiculous and without basis in fact (no matter how much you capitalise words). Consider that maybe *you* are the one with the problem. If you do genuinely have a family with whom you live, I feel very sorry for them - living with you in this condition must indeed be killing them.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 01:01 PM

Carry a plastic gun and play hide and seek. That'll get more reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 12:30 PM

well, since I live near Wash DC, I'll just meander down to the White House and shout and wave my fists at the gate and show them printouts of your posts...that oughta get some reaction...and my picture in the Wash Post!

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 12:13 PM

Fine, folks. But the next time you're outside all day and hacking and coughing and don't know why, look up. Chemtrails used to be sprayed high, but they're coming lower. Used to be that, at six miles up, the drift would carry the visible trail to fall somewhere over the horizon. But now they're spraying much lower, so your cough may be a direct result of the trail you see.

I ran a search of JP7, the fuel Donuel mentioned, and came up with this. Just one small little research project:

http://www.csuchico.edu/biol/personnel/Hanne/ResearchGroup.html

"The above group of undergraduate and graduate students are participating in a research group which has been studying biodegradation for approx 12 years. Previous student research groups have isolated several strains of Arthrobacter which degrade nitrophenols and a strain of Nocardioides which degrades JP7 jet fuel. The nitrophenol degrading Arthrobacter carry a large (approx 60 kb)plasmid which contains the degradative genes and several putative transposons. This year we have initiated a new research project on the effects of Salmon migration on the water chemistry and microbial communities in the Feather River."

This would account for the 'plasma' a lot of people have reported. 'Chaff'.

Believe what you want folks, but this stuff doesn't even require 'belief'. Our govt sprayed use with Sarin nerve gas, just like Saddam Hussein did. And the visible evidence of spraying is above your heads daily...getting more frequent. And your environmental groups tell you to hug trees and picket for whales, while YOU are the main target. Amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 11:17 AM

well, dreaded, hated, bemused, befuddled "guest".....I believe I have found someone who can help you. He is an inventor who lives in Canada...specifically, in Ennismore, Ontario. (All details are in the link I provide) He seems like he can handle almost any concern you have.

No, don't thank me.....

link to the newsgroup sci.military.naval

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 03:00 AM

Yes, of course, Troll, you're correct. Destroyed completely. (But I'm okay; I have my towel with me).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Troll
Date: 25 Feb 03 - 12:46 AM

HELP!! HELP!! THE PARANOIDS ARE AFTER ME!!!
In the Hitchhikers Guide to the Gallaxy the Earth was Destroyed to make room for an Intergallactic Bypass, not moved.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Mudlark
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 10:15 PM

I don't know about what's in these trails, or whether or not they are dangerous, but I do know I hate seeing the sky crisscrossed with them. The sky used to be the one place to look for an absence of man's intervention (outside of LA smog, that is). As a lover of the natural world, and a photographer, I'm sick of seeing these most UNnatural patterns in the sky above my head.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 10:14 PM

Well, danged, HG! Ain't like no one knocked on the cabin door with this one, is it? I mean, like ol' Tom Jefferson said. Ahhhh, what did he say? Well, he said somethin' along the lines that democracy is dependent on an informed population and this "chemtrails" is new to me. Yeah, I see the stuff in the sky and thing it's just, ahhhh, airplane stuff. Now I can fly a Cesna but I don't really know too much about the reat of that airplane stuff and I reckon most folk here don't either. 'Cept you.

Now we do. Or at least we think we do. Even Joe Offer didn't threaten to pull the plug on this one so I reckon this is some purdy serious stuff. Right?

Alzheimers? Ya' say they're dropping stuff on us that can make us forget stuff? Hmmmmmm? Iz startin' to sniff the bigger picture here? Hmmmmm?

So ya' reckon that they'll soften us up with alzheimers dust and then hit us with the heavy stuff? Hey, sounds real humane to me!

Yeah, Bobert, like beam your boney butt up...

Pass on the chemtrails, thanky...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 10:12 PM

Alice doesn't live here anymore. . .

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 09:59 PM

"'There is no use in trying,'" said Alice; 'one can't believe impossible things.' 'I dare say you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.'"

I am afraid I am an "Alice"...

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 08:14 PM

Thanks, Donuel. Impressive. I should start taking photos, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 08:08 PM

This isn't a conspiracy, folks. Your government TRIED to get you interested...tried to get you behind this legislation...but you were too lazy to care. And now you are being poisoned. You REQUESTED this treatment through your silence. This is ALL IN PLAIN SIGHT. They are looking you in the eye as they kill you. You're not stupid people, so WHAT IS the problem? Legislation ADMITS the spraying, photographs are POSTED showing it, water samples taken under spray sights SHOW what was in the spraying, the government announces a SCHEDULE of spraying in Oklahoma, prominent weathermen show you the evidence on RADAR...eyes wide shut. You don't WANT to see this. Are you cowards? Really...tell me where the disconnect it. You are killing my family with this denial. What is the problem?

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 08:07 PM

Edward Teller wrote a paper 9 years ago on the benefits of spraying reflective particulants to counter regional excessive warming of the atmosphere.

The phenomena is only 7 years old but is quite real.
That commercial jets have changed their fuel to JP7 may or may not have something to do with it.

In DC we have had many of these so called chem trails.

Here is what one looked like from our yard, north of DC 6 days after 9-11. (Note all commercial jets at National airport were grounded at the time.)
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/chem.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 07:59 PM

Gads, Joe O- can you imagine attending a Conspiracy Convention? All that skulking around and looking over one's shoulder and speaking out of the corner of one's mouth and knowing that the person down three place settings from you is a guvmint spy... Sounds like fun!

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 07:58 PM

The last session of congress (107th) mentioned chemtrails in legislation that never got passed. The section below is from last year's House Resolution 2977. This same bill has been re-submitted for this session, but 'chemtrails' has been deleted. See...congress admitted chemtrails existed last year, but then they realized the public was so freaking scared of even ACKNOWLEDGING that their leaders were spraying them that they (the congress) didn't have to address the problem after all. And if you can't even look over your heads at the crap sifting down onto you, wait 'til they unleash the psychotronic weapons. And people wonder how America will be conquered:

H.R.2977
SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.
(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations; or
(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person.
(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--
(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;
(ii) chemtrails;
(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;
(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;
(v) laser weapons systems;
(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and
(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.

House Resolution 2977

And in case you still don't know what chemtrails look like, the URL below will show you. If you've seen things like this in the skies above YOU, then you're breathing poison:

More photos, interesting article

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 07:53 PM

Well, I have to admit that conspiracy theories can be very entertaining. Better than a Star Trek convention...
The more preposterous the theory, the more excited people get about it.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 07:53 PM

Well, danged, HG! Ain't this some kind a' mess ya' got us in this time. But, hey, with all the stupid stuff that we learn about the govmint doing, ya' can't put it past 'em. There will be a time when the planet has just too many danged folks and, well, ahhhhh, the govmint gotta do somethin'! Right?

Wars are not ecomically fiesable. And genocide, well, out of vougue. Hitler messed that one up purdy good. So what's a govmint to do, HG?

Thing, I don't understand is why the US ain't into birth control or family plannin'? (Well, except to tell folks not to have sex?) Seems that might be a little more humane. But what the heck do I know. Iz just an ol' hillbilly.

And don't knock alzheimers if ya ain't tried it!

Jus' funnin'. Really. Sorry that Ronnie got it but the boy weren't right without it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: leprechaun
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 07:21 PM

Well that does it for me. I'm gonna hold my breath for a week, at least until the contrails are cleared out of my system. I suggest you all do the same. I don't want to be standing here all by myself next week.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 07:17 PM

Without further comment:
A mini-review from The American Scientist

Brain Power
Dim-wittedness is the one thing that unites nature's most durable creatures, from sea turtles to jellyfish to paddlefish to nematodes. Short-lived prolific bugs tend to weather crises, as do some deep-water creatures, well insulated from events above, for instance, but there is little correlation between brain size and a species' long-term survival.
Nature is loath to tamper with success, and it is loath to lay on brains where they are not needed. How and why brains develop in some animals and not in others is a mystery. The random mutations that increase brain size are probably ubiquitous, meaning that it is reasonable to expect that virtually every animal alive today has ancestors that produced brainier offspring which in turn had the chance to be fruitful and multiply. But the evidence is that with very few exceptions, evolutionary experiments to increase brain power have not taken. During the march of evolution, many animals have gotten smarter in the way we define it, but not much smarter. The likelihood is that nature has had more failures than successes when it comes to increasing brain size (and in evolutionary terms, the jury is still out on whether the human experiment will ultimately be a success or failure, but more about that later).
The Octopus and the Orangutan: More True Tales of Animal Intrigue, Intelligence, and Ingenuity, Eugene Linden, Dutton, $23.95

Unshelved offers a glimpse of books recently received at the Bookshelf. A complete list of such books can be found at http:I/www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/newbooks.html.
2002 November—December p 557

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 06:23 PM

Greg, I don't think you can when your strings have popped which is the obvious case here............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 06:18 PM

How do you play a D chord?

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,Buck Loco
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 06:14 PM

Hey Folks,I was just thinking, maybe the spraying is for the West Nile Virus or similar diseases that are just now making thier way to us because of global warming and that our governments are really trying to protect us without causing panic.

Just an opinion.

Buck

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 05:18 PM

For Joe, " The US Government has little to gain by preying on US citezens..." I think that those incideous bastards certainly do! OIL! OIL! OIL! ARROGANCE! ARROGANCE! ARROGANCE! and GREED! GREED! GVREED! Sorry Joe, Don't be so naive.

wdyat24

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 05:07 PM

Hello Mr. Douglas,

I was wondering if you followed up on the Feb 15 piece in which you said, "Recently our new radar technology at WCCO-TV and government NEXRAD radar have detected a baffling phenomenon: Skies were crystal clear, yet the radar screen was scribbled with 200-mile-long contrails..."

This is an intriguing story, and I'd appreciate any further information.

Thank you.

(Just sent this...but I bet the CIA has already got to him...shut up or die).

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 05:01 PM

"Recently our new radar technology at WCCO-TV and government NEXRAD radar have detected a baffling phenomenon: Skies were crystal clear, yet the radar screen was scribbled with 200-mile-long contrails. The most likely explanation may be "chaff," a release of tiny particles, often used in Air Force military exercises. We have not been able to confirm this, though. In the last 10 days we've tracked these mystery clouds on three or four days, not just here, but also in Boston and south Florida. As soon as we learn more, we'll pass it on to you."

Mobile My-Cast founder Paul Douglas is the WCCO-TV 4WarnSTorm Team's chief meteorologist.

(That's a pretty good imagination I have, Don. I created a man and a whole TV station with this hallucination. I imagine I could even do a search and come up with an imaginary e-mail address for Paul Douglas if I were so inclined...ask him about it directly. You have been conditioned to deny the threatening).

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:49 PM

Fear not, oh Pitiful One. All you need do to protect yourself from the multiplicity of threats that bedevil you is to line your hat with aluminum foil. I know this works because I read it on a website somewhere.

(Theme from The Twilight Zone plays softly in the background. . . .)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:35 PM

The potato thing...most likely false reports planted by agricultural groups who stood to lose from a cheap new food source. I don't see the parallel here. Our own govts are admitting they're doing this. The question is why.

Believe this or not, folks, I just wanted to make you aware of it. We ARE being sprayed with some nasty materials, and our govts only admit to it when they have to. I don't appreciate it.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:26 PM

When potatoes were first introduced into Ireland there were many
pamphlets, broadsides, etc., claiming they were poisonous. Some
maintained that it was an English plot to kill off the
Irish.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:23 PM

But they don't KNOW they're bad, Ebbie. Not the bureaucrats. A guy in the Air Force is told to open a valve for the 'fuel additive'. That's all he knows. He doesn't know it's bacteria or particulate aluminum. He's compartmentalized. If he understood the full import of what he was doing, he would probably ask for a transfer or a discharge.

Compartmentalization is the key to all this. But it's spinning out of control for our leaders. The day Powell testified and made a fool of himself at the U.N., U.S. job figures came out. 20% increase in unemployment over the previous year...2 million U.S. jobs lost. So Powell acted like a buffoon in order to make himself the big story. HE knows what he is doing and is one of the evil ones, but most folks in the military don't know. They just follow orders in their little compartments.

But the internet is the key to change right now. That's why I post this stuff. I mean, look at the first two links in the initial posting...those things HAPPENED. And I might make a hundred folks aware of it for the first time right here. HOW LONG can our corrupt govts maintain credibility under that kind of assault? The compartmentalization is breaking down and things are going to change. GWBush tries to make everything more secret at the moment in history when that becomes impossible...what a moron.

No, I think the average person will make the right choice when the time comes. But unpleasantness like this needs to be aired.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:14 PM

One more time, dreaded, hated, deluded guest: do you realize that these 'monsters' you are describing are our neighbors, our friends, our family? These are human beings- just how many human beings do you know that are soul-less and evil? If you know even one, I hope that person is locked up. If you know three like that, you're hanging out with the wrong crowd.

Even in science fiction, scenarios must be plausible. I suggest you entertain each other with more Can You Top This story lines.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:06 PM

Ebbie...

Zero population growth is no longer adequate. Or so it seems. For some reason our leaders want to eliminate us. I think it's just the ultimate expression of their ego and greed. Not only do they want the entire planet, they want it all to themselves.

I also think there are life-extending technologies they're hiding right now that would cause an even more explosive growth in population if they were made available to the public (cure for cancer?, etc.) So it's now or never. If the people in control don't seize the opportunity to kill us off and dumb down the ones who are left, they will lose their hold on power.

Sage....

Yeah. Aspartame was developed as a chemical weapon. Just happened to be sweet. It's a carcinogen. Yet the FDA allows it's continued use. It's in thousands of foods now, as a sweetner. Like allowing save levels of cyanide in food. The stuff was developed by Monsanto, by the way. Rumsfeld's old company. They're also splicing rat and AIDS genes into corn and other plant crops.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 03:58 PM

Joe...

Someone DOES stand to gain from killing us off. The people who created the 'paper money' system did it in order to buy all the land on the planet. They make you want something though you don't have the money, so they loan you paper to buy it. DEBT is created. You are in debt to the people who printed the money (central banks). This has been going on for hundreds of years now, and every once in a while there is a Depression, where people lose jobs and the price of real estate goes down. The people who print the money buy more real estate. And now we're beginning the last of these real estate consolidations. The people with the money are about to buy ALL the property in the world (though they'll have to kill a few billion folks in order to do it). So corrupt governments are being armed and people are being made sick, and between bullets and infections, the U.N. (organized crime syndicate) will eliminate 80-90% of us. Their figures show they need exactly half a billion people to 'tend the planet'. That's it in a nutshell. GWBush plans to FORCIBLY inject you now with not only smallpox vaccine, but ebola vaccine and half a dozen others. Most of us will die from those nasty injections...IF we are sprayed first with bacteria and other pollutants.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 03:54 PM

You know, dreaded, hated guest, if the World Health Organization or anyone else is so insistent on reducing the world's population -and if any government is capable of such cost-ineffective methods as spray, why not just spray us with contraceptive agents?

In ten years, given natural attrition coupled with disease and accidents, the population would have dropped so drastically it would take generations to make a comeback.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 03:50 PM

Yeah, I avoided nutrasweet for a long time. Finally gave up, it's in everything. It's probably something big industry scrapes out of the bottom of its fertilizer bins.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 03:46 PM

Made you look. The educate-yourself article is just one of thousands on the internet. One of the more interesting ones...aliens and replacement souls. I just threw it in to see if anyone was paying attention. Do the google search for more sober articles.

But the undeniable FACT is that this is taking place. Why? They are dumping bacteria over Oklahoma. Why?

I contend it is to weaken our immune systems. Look up 'Gulf War Syndrome and AIDS' and you'll see dozens of articles talking about the U.S. govt spraying the troops in Iraq with an 'anti-AIDS' vaccine. 40,000+ have died since then.

Our governments are spraying us. They admit it. There are lists of what's IN the sprays, and NONE of the junk is good. And taken all together, it cannot HELP but make us sick...weaken our immune systems. Why are they doing this?

You think this is bad, wait til I post about aspartame.

And keep watching the skies.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 03:44 PM

Well, Art, Douglass Adams did some with with that idea, art, in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Moved Earth out of the way for an intergalactic freeway, if I recall.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 03:40 PM

One of the web sited linked to above also claims that HIV/AIDS and Ebola were bioengineered in the US at the instigation of the Illuminati in order to reduce the world's population. This is apparently because they were advised by aliens in 1947 that another planet is going to pass through Earth, and there won't be time to prepare shelters for everyone. Yep, this is all good, useful, information.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 03:33 PM

Opinions on the REASONS behind the spraying vary, but consensus seems to be our govts are dumping junk on us in order to destroy our immune systems. Then, a really bad strain of weaponized flu, or a toxic vaccine would have devestating effects (makes you wonder why the vaccine makers wanted to be excused from legal liability in the Homeland Security Act).

There is one thing I always wonder about when I hear all these conspiracy theories:
What do they have to gain by doing this? If nobody has anything to gain, then the alleged action doesn't make much sense - and then I suspect that the allegations are untrue.
The U.S. Government has little to gain by preying on its own citizens and allies.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 03:32 PM

You poor guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Chemtrails
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 03:26 PM

Uh, Dreaded Guest, This is a snippit from the "intelligent article" you posted a link to:

Piece 3: Mass Human Mutation, Evolution, and eventual Ascension.
What is a mutation? The dictionary says:

The process by which such a sudden structural change occurs, either through an alteration in the nucleotide sequence of the DNA coding for a gene or through a change in the physical arrangement of a chromosome.


The Rise of Mutant Humans
There are a great number of sources which claim that new strains of humans have been appearing over the past decade. Not all these sources are scientific, but that is expected with a topic at the fringe of current events.

One example is Drunvalo Melchizedek, who in an interview by Diane Cooper (featured at this link) said:

"Well there are 3 different kinds of children emerging in the world today that I have been able to identify. The first are called the "Super Psychic Children of China." The second are called the "Indigo Children" and the third are called the "Children of AIDS." The first one, the "Super Psychics of China," we talked about in the Flower of Life seminars. If you remember, the first one was discovered in 1984 when a child was found who was psychic beyond belief. . .

Big words, fancy arrangement, but means nothing except a really vivid imagination. It's science fiction. (But I must say, you do great research and html, even if the results carry you far beyond the lunatic fringe!)

SRS

Subject: BS: Chemtrails
From: GUEST,The Dreaded Guest
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 02:40 PM

I searched and didn't find anything about this on the forum. The U.S. and British government are spraying us with poisons. Links below go to some of the articles and sites I've found.

I'm no meteorologist or aviation expert, but from what I've read there is a distinct difference between 'contrails' and 'chemtrails'. Contrails are formed by jet exhaust above 30,000 feet when humidity is 73% or above. Ice crystals. We've all seen them. But 'chemtrails' can appear anytime, anwhere. They USED to be sprayed up high, above 30,000, so they'd be confused with contrails, but now you see them much lower. And at times they criss-cross the sky.

In central Texas I have seen dozens of chemtrails in an otherwise perfectly clear sky. I have seen planes cut the streams off and then turn them back on later in the same line of flight. And these clouds don't dissipate quickly like the ice-crystal clouds. Chemtrails hang around for hours sometimes and spread out slowly. Look for them in your area. No frontal activity but you still have a line a mile wide horizon to horizon? Things like that. Look in your area. Chances are you have chemtrails overhead.

So what's in them? Particulate aluminum has been identified, as well as boron salts. The links below talk about various things. Bacteria are sprayed regularly...cases of that over Fort Polk, La. and Camp Leonard Wood have been admitted by the government.

Opinions on the REASONS behind the spraying vary, but consensus seems to be our govts are dumping junk on us in order to destroy our immune systems. Then, a really bad strain of weaponized flu, or a toxic vaccine would have devestating effects (makes you wonder why the vaccine makers wanted to be excused from legal liability in the Homeland Security Act).

Alzheimers increases could be a direct result of chemtrail activity, because a common feature found in brain autopsies of Alzheimers patients is elevated aluminum build-up.

The first time I heard about chemtrails was when I read an article where the Air Force admitted they were spraying particulate aluminum in the air (mixing it in with jet fuel to be left behind in the exhaust). The govt had always denied this type of spraying and denied the 'greenhouse effect' of global warming, then in one press release the Air Force admitted the sprayings and said the aluminum was being used for 'reflectivity'...to reflect sunlight back into space before it could warm the surface of the earth. Hogwash.

Anyway, this junkis being sprayed over our heads and washing down into our water supply. I tend to agree with the 'educate-yourself' article. Hope all the links work.

U.S. admits chemical weapons tests

US planes sprayed Wiltshire with Sarin

Just last week...Minneapolis and Oklahoma
(The top part of this page is from a television meteorologist in Minneapolis, and the bottom part is from a story that was pulled from the on-line paper in Norman, Oklahoma. Fortunately the text was saved on this website.)

Photos of Chemtrails
(Takes a while to load, but click on the photo group to the right...lines in the sky. Look at all the trails visible when the light is just right)

Intelligent article on chemtrails

Google search for 'chemtrails' for further reading

Some people have estimated that the smallpox vaccine, if injected into all 300 million Americans, would kill 14-30 million, because of damaged immune systems. And GWBush just ordered a half-dozen new vaccines be prepared for forcible injection. Experts on chemtrail activity say there has been an explosive increase in their use over the past 30 months. Call me paranoid, but I think it's possible we're being made sick so polluted vaccines can kill us.