BS: Christian Persecution

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 17 Dec 13 - 04:39 AM

"Troubadore you seem to be saying that the Christians may deserve to be massacred and driven out of their ancestral homes.
Is that right?
And you were kidding about Jews, Arabs and even Romans lived fairly peacefully side by side, right?"

I am saying nothing of the sort, idiot. If the only way you can answer is by misinterpreting and challenging the misinterpretation, you ain't worth the bother of a response.

I said that animosity leads to persecution and animosity stems from past and present actions

That isn't an endorsement, it's an explanation and it applies to all who persecute or are persecuted, which makes Jim's comments about persecution (however minor) germane to the topic which you only wished to restrict after your premise was challenge.

As to Palestine around the time that Jesus would have lived, it was analagous to the latter years of British rule in India, with Herod ruling under Roman guidance and the majority living quite peacefully.

And I don't recall any occasion when Jesus is purported to have advocated burning Jews and Muslims. Do you?

Final point. You don't come across as very smart if you can't spell a name that is in full view as you write.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Dec 13 - 05:24 AM

"1st century BCE, the Herodian Kingdom was established as a Roman client kingdom and then in 6 CE parts became a province of the Roman Empire.[1]
Judea province was the scene of unrest at its founding during the Census of Quirinius and several wars were fought in its history, known as the Jewish-Roman wars. The Temple was destroyed in 70 as part of the Great Jewish Revolt"

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Dec 13 - 05:33 AM

And I don't recall any occasion when Jesus is purported to have advocated burning Jews and Muslims. Do you?

Er, no.
But as you say, I am not very bright.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Dec 13 - 05:36 AM

Musket.
The children in an Islamic School in Nigeria the other year weren't given a choice. They were cut up and fed to pigs.

Imagined or made up?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Dec 13 - 05:40 AM

"So you give up straight away"
If some self-declared fascist produces a list of unqualified 'facts' in order to peddle their garbage it is up them to prove their 'facts' not for the rest of us to disprove it.
They have produced the list Boo-boo has presented it here, you support it - you prove it - it is not my job to wade though your Islamophobic garbage do disprove anything you and your little cabal of fascists put up.
How can anybody prove lies are lies if there is no information baccking them up
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Dec 13 - 05:46 AM

If some self-declared fascist produces a list of unqualified 'facts' in order to peddle their garbage it is up them to prove their 'facts' not for the rest of us to disprove it.

How can we?
All we can do is point to examples that are true.
I have checked through many and also remember many of the incidents.

What is your challenge Jim?
If you can not find one single false example, you have no case.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 17 Dec 13 - 11:36 AM

"If some self-declared fascist produces a list of unqualified 'facts' in order to peddle their garbage it is up them to prove their 'facts' not for the rest of us to disprove it."

This from a Jew hating, Islamist apologist, and he labels others as fascists - hah!

But at least he is nothing but consistent in his name calling and smearing when faced with indisputable facts that put to lie to his claims.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Dec 13 - 11:56 AM

Yeah, the BBC makes all of it up.

Except the list of historians it can afford to write for it, apparently

zzzzzzzzz


You'll be telling me Blackadder was made up shit next.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Dec 13 - 01:41 PM

All we can do is point to examples that are true.
I have checked through many and also remember many of the incidents.
Simmple then - prove them - give i#us you evidence of the many of them - both that they actually exist and that they are 'religious crimes - I doubt if there's anybody who will take your word for anything nowadays
My "challenge" is that if they exist as actual events at all, there is no evidence that any of them are religiously motivated.
We are now exactly where we have always needed to be - you presenting 'facts' from an ultra-right website and demanding that we accept them without proof.
They are fascist propaganda - they come with no proof and they come from you and your little friend.
I assume you are a fully paid up member of the BNP -or is your card still in the post.
Thanks Keith - couldn't wish for a better Christmas present.
Seig heil and all that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Dec 13 - 02:08 PM

Musket, I watch and listen to and read BBC, and I would have remembered that, but I don't.
You either imagined it or made it up.

Such a story would be easy to Google, but it doesn't work for me.
You try.

Jim, you yourself must remember many of those incidents.
What was the justification for your challenge?
You obviously can not find a false one or you would be crowing about it.
It is just yet more deceit from Jim Carrol.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 13 - 02:42 AM

BBC today.
Prince Charles said he felt deeply troubled by the plight of Christians.

"For 20 years I have tried to build bridges between Islam and Christianity to dispel ignorance and misunderstanding," he told the audience.

"The point though, surely, is that we have now reached a crisis where bridges are rapidly being deliberately destroyed by those with a vested interest in doing so.

"This is achieved through intimidation, false accusation and organised persecution including to the Christian communities in the Middle East at the present time."

The Coptic Church traces its origins back to the 1st Century when it was founded by the apostle St Mark.

The Syrian Orthodox Church says it was established by St Peter who became its first bishop.

Christians living in the Middle East have often had a wary relationship with their Muslim neighbours.

The Arab Spring though has led to an upsurge in violence with many Christians fleeing the region to avoid attack.

In Egypt, violence against the Copts increased after the military overthrow of Muslim Brotherhood President Mohammed Morsi.

Hundreds of church properties, homes and businesses were attacked and looted.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 13 - 03:00 AM

More than 70 Christians reported killed at instigation of terror group Boko Haram. 900 Christians murdered in past year. Release launches Christmas appeal Help the Wounded. Radio report available here.



There have been further attacks against Christians in Nigeria. Raiders killed 37 Christians in the central Plateau State on Tuesday. A further 34 have been killed in Borno State in the north-east in the past month.

Church leaders say the attacks in the north were carried out directly by Islamist terror group Boko Haram, while those in central Nigeria were carried out at their instigation.

Press reports say Boko Haram have forced 8,000 Christians to flee, and many who remain are no longer able to worship in public. According to the US-based Hudson Institute Boko Haram has killed at least 900 Christians in the past year. Their stated aim is to impose fundamentalist Islamic law in Nigeria.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/59567

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 13 - 03:11 AM

Hansard last week
That this House is concerned that the persecution of Christians is increasing in the 21st Century; notes that there are reports that one Christian is killed every 11 minutes somewhere on earth for their faith; further notes that Christianity is the most persecuted religion globally; bears in mind that the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion is a human right stated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; and calls on the Government to do more both in its foreign policy and through its aid work to defend and support people of Christian faith.

It is a pleasure to bring this matter forward for consideration. The number of Members in the Chamber is an indication of the level of interest, and I look forward to outlining some of the issues.

I believe that the persecution of Christians is the biggest story in the world that has never been told, and its importance cannot be underlined enough. The subject burdens me, and many other Members, judging by the number here.

Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con): It is greatly to the credit of the Democratic Unionist party that it has secured this debate. Let us be honest: if this were happening to almost any other religious group it would be something of a national scandal. That makes it all the more important to put the ongoing persecution of Christians in many parts of the world on the political map. This debate will do that in the next two and three quarter hours.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm131203/debtext/131203-0003.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 18 Dec 13 - 04:03 AM

Aye.. The DUP... Nice to see the experts get to have a say in how to persecute fellow Christians . They'll be walking on The Queen's pavement next......

Hey bobad! When you speak of an apologist for Islam, what does Islam need to apologise for in your view?

Just wondering....

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 13 - 04:05 AM

Musket.
"The children in an Islamic School in Nigeria the other year weren't given a choice. They were cut up and fed to pigs"

Imagined or made up?
Fantasy or lie?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 18 Dec 13 - 08:17 AM

"Hey bobad! When you speak of an apologist for Islam,"

Musket, please reread for comprehension, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 13 - 09:05 AM

"Islamist apologist,"
They have much to be apologised for.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Dec 13 - 10:18 AM

"Jim, you yourself must remember many of those incidents."
Where is your evidence that they all - or even half or a quarter of them took place?
Where is your evidence that they were 'religious' attacks and not just attacks on people who happened to belong to a certain religion?
Nobody is denying that Christians are being persecuted - you, on the other hand, have attempted to play down and dismiss crimes of persecution by Christian churches on it's own and other believers - even to the extent of trying to prevent discussion on that fact.
This shit comes from an extremist hate site - you have given it your wholehearted support and demanded that we follow your line in swallowing it wholesale without proof.
You have now made yourself an open part of the hate machine - do not use Mudcat as your mouthpiece.
You want to go through this diatribe of hate article by article and show us which are true - feel free- it should keep you occupied from now to MacColl's 100th in 2015 - it will certainly slow your 'hate' gallop down considerably
It will also underline your dedication to hate-sites - always handy to know where the dog has shat before you put your foot down!
You appear to be single-handedly polluting an excellent forum with your diatribes of hate (don't really count Boo-boo, whose feet in morth make him little to a Laurel to your Hardy, good for light amusement and little more)
There has to come a time when the administrators of this site put a stop to your outpourings of hate and bigotry - it really is getting out of hand.
The sooner it happens, the cleaner the air.
Now - your proof, and please stop insulting our intelligence with your rantings
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Dec 13 - 11:49 AM

I can find nothing but genuine cases.
Can you find ONE SINGLE non-genuine case?
No.
So what is your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 02:57 AM

Musket.

The children in an Islamic School in Nigeria the other year weren't given a choice. They were cut up and fed to pigs.

A genuine trick of the memory, or another blatant lie.

Which is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 04:32 AM

Keith. When you said "they" with regard to Islam and having much to apologise for...

Were you saying that as a Christian? How much have Christians to apologise for?

Come to think of it, should I ring a Muslim friend or two and ask them to apologise for foreigners in land grab and power struggles?

Hang on. Just looked down the corridor. Can't see any. They must all be out on wards, theatres and clinics caring for patients.

The Nigeria example I gave is of course interesting. It happened in the south of the country, yet the opposite has, with slightly different detail, happened in the North where the Christians are the minority.

You see, it isn't about Jesus or The Prophet, it's about preventing the sizeable minority becoming the majority.

As ever.

Debasing faith and using it for more material means.

Perpetuated by fools who try to shoehorn religion into it, hence playing straight into the hands of the oppressors.

Nice one Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 05:34 AM

Keith. When you said "they" with regard to Islam and having much to apologise for.

But nobody did say that, so what is your point?

If your "incident" happened in any part of Nigeria, there would be reports.
There are none.
Funny that.
It is as if you made it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 05:48 AM

"Can you find ONE SINGLE non-genuine case?"
If you want to validate a fascist site it's up to you to prove their/your 'facts' - not me to prove otherwise.
Personally I wouldn't touch heir information with a bargepole - fasict propaganda is just what it says on the label
For someone who is attempting to rewrite history of 'facts' supplied by so-called military historians and rejecting the evidence of established historians - you're not doing too well in providing any here.
Have a good Nuremberg Rally - seig heil again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 06:02 AM

I can find nothing but genuine cases.
Can you find ONE SINGLE non-genuine case?
No.
So what is your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 06:42 AM

"Church leaders say the attacks in the north were carried out directly by Islamist terror group Boko Haram, while those in central Nigeria were carried out at their instigation.

Press reports say Boko Haram have forced 8,000 Christians to flee, and many who remain are no longer able to worship in public. According to the US-based Hudson Institute Boko Haram has killed at least 900 Christians in the past year. Their stated aim is to impose fundamentalist Islamic law in Nigeria."

There's a world of ambiguity in that report.

Boko Haram are dedicated to removing non Muslims, and the non Muslims in those areas happen to be Christian. If they were Buddists, Hindu, Sikh or Shinto, they would be the victims and there would have been no thread from you decrying it.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 06:58 AM

"Islamist apologist,"
They have much to be apologised for." K A of H

"Keith. When you said "they" with regard to Islam and having much to apologise for." Musket

"But nobody did say that, so what is your point?" K A of H (Alias Nobody!)

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 07:07 AM

Do I need to educate you both on the difference between Islam and Islamism, Muslims and Islamists?

You are a very ignorant person.
You are so stupid you actually make me look good.
Nice job.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 07:37 AM

We know there have been attacks by Christians reported in News programs, but when you look for them online, you are given reams of comment for the other side.

Nobody is interested in Muslims killed, so no change there.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 07:46 AM

Can you give an example of such an event?
No.
If you heard about them on the News programmes they will be on the websites of those programmes.
I think your memory is playing tricks.
You can't even remember your name.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 08:03 AM

Carroll, if you're going to start with your "seig [sic] heils" you best get the spelling right lest you embarrass your fellow travelers.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 08:10 AM

And Jim,
someone who is attempting to rewrite history of 'facts' supplied by so-called military historians and rejecting the evidence of established historians

If you can name one such "established historian" I have rejected, please post it on the armistice site, where I have been requesting that information for weeks.

I say you are lying about that as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 08:10 AM

"Do I need to educate you both on the difference between Islam and Islamism, Muslims and Islamists?"

They are either too thick to get it or it's one and the same to them, which would explain much.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 09:27 AM

"It's a subject that has become ever more urgent this year with violence against Christians in Syria, where Islamists have been engaged in 'religious cleansing', and in Egypt, which saw the worst anti-Christian violence in centuries.

Over the weekend the leading Catholic in Iraq, Patriarch Louis Sako, was in Rome where he lamented the west's apathy, after a decade in which 1,000 Iraqi Christians have been murdered, over 60 churches bombed, and a pre-war population of one million reduced to 200,000 at most.

He said: 'We feel forgotten and isolated. We sometimes wonder, if they kill us all, what would be the reaction of Christians in the West? Would they do something then?'"

"For those who make no effort to press for religious freedom and security in the Middle East, because they are scared of appearing Islamophobic, how do you think history will judge that excuse?"
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/edwest/2013/12/if-they-kill-us-all-what-would-be-the-reaction-of-christians-in-the-west/

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 10:06 AM

This is the source of your "genuine cases" - which you refuse to corroborate
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
And this is description of the site itself
"http://www.loonwatch.com/tag/the-religion-of-peace/"
I've told you why We can't believe them - you gives a reason why we should
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 12:15 PM

Getting a bit desperate aren't we? "Err.. I didn't say Islam, I said Islamism, which is sooo fucking different, I'm going to point and laugh at you for being thick!"

Go on then, either you or your best mate bobad. Tell us what you think is the difference and why the difference is important in Keith's smear of a good few million people.

I like it when Keith finds a fellow fool. It eggs him on to reveal even more of his arse. You could do a double act. Come to think of it, bobad said it first and then back pedalled when I challenged him, screaming about context. I got the context alright, hence my question.

Keith on the other hand can't back pedal because his chain fell off in his first post.



I didn't say pig ignorant, I said pigignorant, which is of course an entirely different thing.

You two pair of clowns should cut and paste your withering diatribe and stick it in the pedantry thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 01:00 PM

Jim, I have no reasons why you should believe this list or anything else.
That is why I checked it myself.
It checks out.
Sorry, but it does, and I know you have also checked.
It hardly matters where it came from if it is true.
Neither of us can find a single fault with it, so what is your objection?

Musket, Islam and Islamism are indeed "sooooo fucking different."
You are indeed an ignorant twat.
And you accuse me of trying to make you look a twat!
No need to try.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 01:16 PM

The more you repeat your claim to have "checked it out yourself", the more stupidly obvious your Islamophobic tirade becomes.
If you have "checked it out yourself", convince us that you are not lying - evidence is the best policy - as they say.
You have the pedigree of your source of information - we have your history of telling porkies
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 02:56 PM

What proof do you want Jim.
I remembered a few and googled a few.
If you had managed to find a false entry you would tell us.
I couldn't either.
It seems to be accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 03:06 PM

I remembered a few and googled a few.

Righto- your demonstrably faulty memory plus "I read it on the internet, it must be true".

Pitiful.

But not unexpected.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 03:11 PM

"bobad said it first and then back pedalled when I challenged him, screaming about context. I got the context alright, hence my question."

Huh? WTF are you talking about? I never did any such thing, I think you are rather confused - which is no revelation AFAICS.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 04:23 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 13 - 07:31 PM

Greg, even you must remember some of those incidents.
I googled a few I did not remember, and found them reported.
That's how I knew they were true.
What would you do Greg?
Have YOU found any non-genuine incidents from the list?
Any at all?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 20 Dec 13 - 03:24 AM

At least three of my posts didn't reach the mud server and I can't be arsed to repeat them.

Suffice to say that they basically made points that made Keith A Hole of Hertford look a fool and reminded bobad to look at his posts before claiming innocence.

Got some reality to deal with now.

Tatty bye.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Dec 13 - 04:13 AM

Did they have an admission that you made up the story about the Islamic school, and an apology for it?
Did they say that you have now looked up the difference between Islam and Islamism, and apologise for your ignorance?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 20 Dec 13 - 08:13 AM

So, I see that Musket has taken a page out of his buddy's playbook and is resorting to making shit up when he runs out of ammunition. Time to fall back and rearm with some facts boys.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 20 Dec 13 - 09:15 AM

Aye. Waffling on about Christians and arming yourself with facts.

Whatever floats your boat I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 20 Dec 13 - 10:34 AM

Christian persecution.

Uganda has passed a law making it illegal to be gay, and it will be a crime not to report gays to the police. In saying Uganda is a God fearing country, the MP who proposed the private members bill admitted his cause was funded by American Christian groups who has urged them to consider the death sentence.

Just thought I'd mention it before Keith A Hole of Hertford refers to it as made up shit.

Christianity, Christianism, Christians. Anything to add from pedant corner?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Dec 13 - 01:43 AM

There is a vital distinction between Islam and Islamism.
Calling it pedantry emphasises your profound ignorance of the subject.

The "made up shit" comment referred to the story you told about the Nigerian Islamic school.
It never happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 21 Dec 13 - 02:14 AM

Now you are managing to pretend you are a revisionist historian yourself.

By the way, if my interpretation of the two words is a bit too simplistic for you, that's a sign of your problem not mine. Saying I make shit up and don't understand words I use is just another way of saying you have made an arse if yourself yet again and trying to deflect the embarrassment.

Well done.

Prat


Only 24 hours to church. Ironed your blazer yet? Don't forget to give thanks for doing the Lord's work on this thread. You are working tirelessly to demonstrate the specialness and superiority of Christianity and should be proud of yourself.

Superfluous comment I suppose. I reckon you are proud of yourself. Don't forget to say a prayer for the new victims of Christian persecution in Uganda. The perpetrators have enough Christians praying for them.

Ironically, most of the victims are Christians too but are being persecuted in the name of Christianity. Anyone would think this persecution lark was more to do with majority persecuting minority rather than choosing imaginary friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Dec 13 - 05:39 AM

if my interpretation of the two words is a bit too simplistic for you,
Much more crass than that!
You equated them!
That is indeed a demonstration of profound ignorance.

Your story about the school was shit and you made it up.
It is made up shit.