Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 04 Nov 23 - 03:34 PM

Donald Trump's daughter, Ivanka Trump, is set to appear at his New York fraud trial, and her evidence could be key

It's a long article but the headline on the news page list is: "Ivanka Trump tried and failed to avoid a court date. It could lead to big problems for her dad"


"Glenn Kirschner, a legal commentator who worked as a federal prosecutor for 30 years, says her efforts to avoid appearing could be a 'red flag' for the family.

"'I do think she represents the kind of danger to other Trump family members that perhaps the sons do not represent,' he told the ABC.

....

"Last year, she agreed to be interviewed by the congressional committee investigating the January 6 Capitol riots, giving testimony for eight hours.

“'She clearly, at least in the clips we saw, was unwilling to parrot or to mimic her father's lies,' Mr Kirschner says.

"In one of those clips, Ivanka said she accepted former attorney-general Bill Barr's conclusion that the 2020 election result wasn't affected by fraud.

"'What does that tell us? It tells us that she is not afraid to push back against her father,' Mr Kirschner says.

"'Might we see her sort of take a similar tack in this civil trial?'

"Another Donald Trump critic — his estranged and outspoken niece Mary Trump — is confident she will, saying: 'She's just going to tell the truth and throw him under the bus.'"

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 12:03 PM

Lighter said, "Today's CNN/NYT poll shows Trump leading Biden by several points in most swing states."

If you look at it a bit differently, the poll could simply show the preferred party, Republican v. Democrats. At present, Trump is presumed to be the nominated candidate for the Reps but it might not happen. Meanwhile, voters could simply be choosing between the parties. Unfortunately, whichever party is currently in power is often not the preferred party in polling results, i.e. the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Personally, I think the big decider will be if Trump goes to prison. When it's decision time, hopefully a significant chunk of the voters will say they don't want a convicted criminal running the country. It's all what-ifs at present.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 08 Nov 23 - 12:02 PM

An interesting article:

Insulting a judge might seem like a strange strategy, but Donald Trump had a bigger plan for his day in court

IMHO, it is also worth looking at because of the first two images: the court illustration showing Trump doing the accordion fingers, and the photo in which he clearly looks stressed and/or worried, where for the majority of the rest of his life everything is like water off a duck's back to him due to his massive belief in himself.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 08 Nov 23 - 04:04 PM

Ivanka Trump tells New York fraud trial she had no role in Donald Trump's financial statements

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 18 Nov 23 - 09:19 PM

Yes but, It's a great way to watch him dig a big hole for himself.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 19 Nov 23 - 05:01 PM

Yes, SRS you are right. I just wonder if giving him freedom of speech might provide the final kick to get him into prison. Give him enough rope ....

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 03 Nov 23 - 08:30 AM

That convicted felon Flynn has the personality of a gila monster and   would be hard pressed to garner more than a few Democratic votes and without a sizable portion of those it would be impossible to gain the presidency. Maybe you're hallucinating again.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Nov 23 - 03:17 AM

The BBC synopsis of the Republicans challenging Donald Trump

I don't know if it is a good summary so if anyone from the US can comment it would be useful

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Nov 23 - 10:52 AM

Thanks Lighter

Subject: BS: No new Trump threads PART III
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 23 - 01:29 PM

Don Jr. suffered amnesia on the stand in court.

---

BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads) is the older thread. --mudelf

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 23 - 06:44 AM

A quasi-religious dark horse like Gen. Flynn stands a better chance if Trump is unable to run than any of the announced candidates, in my opinion.

Like being late to sell your product for Christmas even Democratic challengers to Biden may be too late causing more harm than good and losing market share.

Who politically survives is still an open-ended question. I don't know if adding open antisemitism puts Republicans over the top or if Democrats will be the winning voice of reason. I am simply hopeful there are more healthy citizens than sick ones.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 23 - 08:09 AM

https://www.newsweek.com/roger-stone-wants-michael-flynn-run-president-2024-if-trump-doesnt-1589802

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 23 - 05:42 PM

IT WILL NOT BE THE CASE THAT TRUMP WILL APPEAR ON SOME STATE BALLOTTS AND NOT OTHERS.
Colorado and Minnesota are currently using section 3 of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution to remove Trump from the ballot because he committed insurrection against the Constitution and gave aid to other insurrectionists. The State cases will conclude BUT THE SUPREME COURT will then decide for all STATES.

What is insurrection against the Constitution? It is violating the executive vestment that a President will serve a 4 year term IF he is elected or re-elected. (It does not involve the storming of the Capitol or any other modus Operandi of insurrection)
Technically the Supreme Court could decide either way.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 23 - 06:22 PM

A better lawyer might argue the insurrection against the Constitution was the obstruction of Congress from certifying the vote on Jan 6.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 11:31 AM

Could Trump be so krazy as to pull a Netanyahu and abolish or ignore the Supreme Court? The Justices must decide if they want to risk Trump telling them "You're FIRED".

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 23 - 06:33 AM

Carry on Stilly and Lighter.
With Mudcat behaving like a disappearing clipboard of server errors
this artist finds this site has died.
The footprints of ideas now vanish with daily tides.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 23 - 07:37 AM

* He'll win. There's nothing we can do.

I understand why that was said because a win will produce a cataclysm.
Why? Because TRUMP VOWS TO ROOT OUT VERMIN in his second term.
He said the vermin are Communists, Fascists, Marxists, etc. but you know he means his critics, Jews, Blacks, Democrats, and Immigrants.
He has included some of his lawyers and Generals in the Vermin Roundup. He vows a new wall around camps intended for incarceration and mass deportation. So I ask...
Are there any vermin here?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 23 - 09:19 AM

I was one of the first that warned of this Nazi threat in which all the words and strategies of Trump come from Mussellini's black shirts and Hitler's brown shirts and Mein Kampf.

Vermin and poisoning the blood of our country are verbatim propaganda phrases coming out of the mouth of Trump that were used in the 1930's.

Country Club Republicans are still sleepwalking into the abyss.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 23 - 04:52 PM

They all started off in Queens which is the home turf of the Bonnano Mafia family. The Bonnanos ended up being the first mobsters to inform on each other to the FBI. After that other families fell like dominos.

Stilly are you intimating a possible lifespan for Donald?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 23 - 03:47 PM

I think she resigned on or near Donald's inauguration so an investigation would be discontinued.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 23 - 06:45 PM

There are thousands of online hate groups and numerous sites that connect them.
There is more than 8 chan to connect violent book burning nazis but here is a smattering of hate groups besides Proud Boys;
Aryan Freedom Network
Atomwaffen Division
American Front
American Nazi Party
Aryan Brotherhood of Texas
Aryan Brotherhood
Aryan Circle
Aryan Nations
Aryan Republican Army
Battalion 14/Connecticut White Wolves[6][7]
The Daily Stormer
Identity Evropa
Libertarian National Socialist Green Party[8][9][10]
Maryland National Socialist Party[11][6]
National Alliance
National Socialist Liberation Front
National Socialist Movement
National Socialist Vanguard
National Vanguard
Nationalist FrontO
Patriot Front
Renegade Tribune
The Right Stuff
Rise Above Movement
The Order
Traditionalist Worker Party
Vanguard America
Nazi Low riders
Vanguard News Network[12][13][14]
Werewolf 88[15][16]
White Aryan Resistance
White Devil Social Club[17][16]
White Order of Thule[18]
Caribbean and South America

and this NPR broadcast https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/blog/who-is-watching-the-hate-tracking-hate-groups-online-and-beyond/

This group vowed to take over the Republican Party in 2018. Identity Evropa
Nationalist Social Club
National States' Rights Party
NSDAP/A

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 23 - 08:02 AM

I have personally seen the volume has been turned up to 10 on neo nazi and white Christian nationalist internet hate speech and propaganda,
This makes Trump's personal protestations practically moot.

The themes range from asking why Hitler got a bad rap or saying Hitler was a great leader who did a couple bad things, all the way to kill the Jews and vermin Democrats.

Even non fascist web sites like Quora are being deluged by pro Hitler questions and answers. The younger population is most responsible for this explosion.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 23 - 08:03 PM

I just wonder if giving him freedom of speech might provide the final kick to get him into the White House again.
As a former hypnotist, I know myths work, I know cults work. I know the bigger the social lie the more believable. The race myths work, the religious myths work, and even the internet troll lies work. It is reinforced by people's mistrust, fear, and a wanton need to know.   Liars are often those who seek power over their target. Myths override the obvious fallacies. To stand against that evil requires a response that looks like defensiveness. When such lies appear here they are simply deleted or erroneously closed. The crime of lying is called perjury in Court. Very rarely are government leaders punished for lying.

Short of armed conflict against the lie, is Art, literature and entertainment, The Enemy of the Liar is a truthful account of History.
Once the truth tellers are criminalized, the battle is over for years, decades or centuries.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 23 - 08:19 PM

The defense against the truth tellers is simple denial often combined with an alternative history of lies. What is the point of this obviousness? The truth you speak now can create a needful change while silence condemns everyone.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 23 - 08:36 PM

This is not a knee-jerk response but fear is the exact thing the Right wants you to feel to enforce a silence.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 23 - 08:43 PM

As a follow up in the handwritten postcard strategy endorsing non-authoritarian candidates, it resulted in 100% success in those elections.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Nov 23 - 05:36 PM

The editor on this wins the award for the best headline on the Internet today: Trump kid says the darnedest things: Donald Trump Jr. gives guarded, sometimes flip testimony at fraud trial

For those outside the US, in the 1950s to early 70's there was a Canadian transplant to US TV named Art Linkletter who hosted The Linkletter Show on which he frequently interviewed small children. The line "Kids Say the Darndest Things" became the catchphrase for those interviews and turned into some books later. Here's some of it (introduced by the now disgraced comic-rapist Bill Cosby, who used the concept for his own show at one point).

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 23 - 12:55 PM

Robert Reich has it right, pointing out that any votes for "third parties" such as No Labels are a vote for Trump. And that No Labels is intended to do just that, it is funded by the foul supporters of Trump, trying to siphon off Biden votes.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 23 - 08:06 PM

In an interview snippet heard today Michael Cohen ridiculed Eric Trump's testimony about not knowing the financial end, just "pouring the concrete" for the corporation. Cohen's response was that "Eric wouldn't even know how to mix Quikrete and water in a bucket."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 12:41 PM

The really scary part of all of this is that despite Trump's criminal charges and potential damage to the Constitution, there is a group of Democrats who are making a huge fuss about Biden's age. These two guys are a couple of years apart and Biden is a rational human being. And as a mature adult advancing into older age I find it rather offensive that the number is more important than the actual person, his health, his record, and his motivations.

Trump will not just chew up the scenery if he is reelected.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 23 - 10:18 AM

Trump doesn't have "half the electorate." Polls are untrustworthy and they never are particularly accurate regarding Biden. Only the ballot box counts. Trump has a lot of already elected people scared of him so they go along with him, but he's losing his grip on them and their constituents. His endorsed candidates didn't do so well in this Tuesday's mid-term election because they are on the wrong side of the abortion debate for the electorate they want to serve. He favors chaos, and the next test will be when the US government might shut down if the new Speaker can't herd all of the cats. Trump thinks it's great if the government shuts down.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Nov 23 - 10:15 AM

Those polls are next to useless. Don't even give they oxygen.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Nov 23 - 11:25 AM

Apparently his older sister retired federal judge Maryanne Trump Barry has died.

Maryanne Trump Barry, a former federal judge who was an older sister of Donald J. Trump and served as both his protector and critic throughout their lives, has died. She was 86.

Ms. Barry died at her home on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, according to two people familiar with the matter. One of them said she had been found early Monday morning. Neither person specified a cause.

Ms. Barry, the widow of John Barry, a veteran trial and appellate lawyer, had been a federal judge in New Jersey, a position that Mr. Trump’s fixer, the lawyer Roy M. Cohn, was credited with helping her attain during President Ronald Reagan’s tenure. She retired from the bench in 2019, at a time when inquiries were brewing after a New York Times investigation into the family’s tax practices.

Mr. Trump seemed to heed the words of few people as much as he did his sister’s, according to confidants. But they had a significant fissure in their relationship in the final year of his presidency, when their niece Mary L. Trump, who was promoting a memoir about their family, released audio recordings of her aunt speaking critically about the president.

Mr. Trump, 77, who is the front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination even as he faces dozens of criminal charges in four cases, has had a number of personal losses in the last several years.

His younger brother, Robert S. Trump, died in 2020, and the president held a funeral service for him at the White House. His first wife, Ivana Trump, died in 2022.

A spokesman for Mr. Trump did not respond to a request for comment.

The fact that Roy M. Cohn helped her get that position speaks volumes about the lack of ethics and the general criminal enterprise in which the family engaged.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Nov 23 - 05:30 PM

Nope. One of his major fixers is gone.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Nov 23 - 08:13 PM

An appeals court judge decided to lift the gag orders against Trump while it is under appeal (to the Supremes) and immediately after the personal attacks and invective flowed. If there was ever an illustration of why a gag order must be in place, he just made the case.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Nov 23 - 10:36 AM

Unfortunately, he attaches targets on the bodies, families, homes, and businesses of all of the people he is smearing with his attacks. It needs to stop. He belongs in prison.

Trump opened a Pandora's box that was simmering quietly but relatively under control. You're seeing the effect of his demagoguery.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Nov 23 - 09:01 AM

Gnome, the BBC piece is pretty good, though I've never heard of Binkley or Johnson.

Also, the article doesn't mention that Scott is the most outspokenly religious of the group and possibly even more anti-abortion than the rest.

De Santis is also noted for insisting on business as usual in Florida
during COVID. No masks needed, no nothing. He's even appointed a Surgeon General who's told Floridians not to get a COVID shot.

Vivaswamy tries to be a mini-Trump in every way, including insults and
inflammatory claims.

As for spine and judgement in general, consider this. At the first debate they were asked whether they would support Trump if he were the nominee *and* convicted of one or more felonies.

Everybody but Hutchinson and Christie (old-school Republicans, though both were cozy with Trump for two or three years) promised they would.

Now *that's* scary.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 07:31 AM

Only slightly off-topic:


https://www.yahoo.com/news/queeg-factor-223932088.html

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 09:13 AM

Or that he'd be so popular nearly three years after Jan. 6, that his image could be used to sell cars.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 11:10 AM

Krazier and krazier:

"'We won, the last time, 50 states, think of it, 50 states,' he told the Freedom Summit, outside Orlando, Florida. "'We won every state.'"


https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims-won-50-states-152719454.html

Today's CNN/NYT poll shows Trump leading Biden by several points in most swing states. Typical Trump supporter comment: "When he was president, prices were lower and we didn't have any of these wars." (My paraphrase.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 11:40 AM

"Agenda 47":


https://www.barrons.com/news/agenda-47-what-trump-has-promised-if-he-wins-in-2024-79bb3dd9

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Nov 23 - 07:48 AM

Get this:

Only 32% of voters say Biden has the mental sharpness and stamina to be president.

But 54% say it about Trump.


https://www.axios.com/2023/05/07/biden-trump-age-electionoll

One reason: Trump's sycophantic cable "news" channels (not just FOX) that continually depict Biden as frail, weak, and "demented," while playing up Trump's supposed toughness, vigor, and brains.

Also the fact that so many other Americans say they get their "news" from "social media."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Nov 23 - 08:27 AM

Besides "Communists, Fascist, and Marxists," he specifically focused on "radical left thugs that live like vermin in the confines of our country."

He also promised to place rounded-up illegal immigrants in "camps."

Even the business-oriented, conservative Forbes Magazine noted the resemblance to Nazi (that's the word Forbes used) rhetoric.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 23 - 06:16 AM

Unfortunately, those Democrats that are refusing to close ranks happen to be right. Another year for Biden to increasingly show his age. More months of ructions and splits in the party over Israel. Split parties never win (unless you can conceal the splits, which is not happening). Put as brave a face as you like over those swing state polls but they are a great big red warning sign that Biden isn't the man.   Nothing currently being thrown at Trump will (a) put him in jail, (b) reduce his popularity. Yeah, they're both old men, but one old man looks and sounds like an old man whilst the other looks like he hasn't changed much. Whether or not that sounds offensive to you or me isn't the point. It's all about what your electorate takes on board. We all like Biden and if I lived over there I'd campaign for him. But Trump has half the electorate in his pocket already and the arithmetic is all going in his favour. Unless you can get him over January 6, he's your next president, God help us.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 23 - 09:49 AM

Sam Levine in today's Guardian:

Hillary Clinton has compared Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler as she offered a blunt warning about the dangers of a second Trump presidency.

Trump back in the White House, Clinton said during an appearance on ABC’s daytime talkshow The View on Wednesday, “would be the end of our country as we know it, and I don’t say that lightly”.

The former first lady, senator and secretary of state said: “When I was secretary of state, I used to talk about ‘one and done’. What I meant by that is that people would get legitimately elected and then they would try to do away with elections, and do away with opposition, and do away with a free press.”

Then Clinton added: “Hitler was duly elected. All of a sudden somebody with those tendencies, dictatorial, authoritarian tendencies, would be like ‘OK we’re gonna shut this down, we’re gonna throw these people in jail.’ And they didn’t usually telegraph that. Trump is telling us what he intends to do.”

Clinton’s comments came days after a Washington Post report detailing how Trump is discussing how to use the justice department to investigate political rivals and former allies who have been critical of him should he return to the White House. He is also discussing invoking the Insurrection Act on his first day in office, which would allow him to use the US military domestically to quell protests and dissent, something he was talked out of by military leaders during his one-term presidency.

Trump’s team is also preparing to staff a potential administration with more radical rightwing lawyers who are less likely to stymie efforts to get in his way as he pushes the bounds of presidential power, the New York Times reported...

...Clinton gave a clear warning.

“Trump is telling us what he intends to do,” Clinton said on The View. “Take him at his word.”

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 23 - 06:50 PM

Yeah, polls are untrustworthy. Keep living in hope.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 23 - 08:13 PM

A completely deluded and dangerous idiot has just been elected in Argentina. He's been hailed by Trump. Populism is alive and kicking. Be very afraid.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 08:38 AM

Just a random comment here:

I limit my access to the ongoing news coverage to
radio soundbites, selected newspaper articles.
Don't do social media or television.

When Trump became President seven years ago,
I made a decision to avoid listening to the sound of his voice.
So I was constantly switching the volume of the radio,
to be sure I didn't hear Trump speaking.

Yesterday I had the car radio on, and it was advertisement time.
So on comes an advertisement for a local auto dealer,
one who routinely uses humor in their advertisements.

THe commercial had an imitation Donald Trump shilling for the dealer.
I was truly startled by the leaden vocal delivery.
I mean, I knew it must be bad, but never before now
did I know that Trump speaking was THAT bad.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 12 Nov 23 - 07:01 AM

There's three ways to look at this:

* He'll fail. We don't need to do anything.

* He'll win. There's nothing we can do.

* He may win. FIGHT.

It's a situation those of us in England are all too familiar with in carefully-gerrymandered parliamentary constituencies.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Nov 23 - 12:04 PM

I lost faith in my military-industrial government when I was a kid.
The 3 reasons why we're the traumatic murder of JFK , preposterous cover stories for UFOs and the destabilization of Chile.

Today the folks at the CIA and FBI who committed those actions are dead but the ideology is still alive but growing weaker.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Nov 23 - 04:12 PM

Donald Trump Rages at His Enemies in Furious Thanksgiving Message

Donald Trump went after his political enemies in a Thanksgiving message posted on Truth Social on Thursday.

The former president focused his attacks on those involved in his civil fraud trial as well as on President Joe Biden.

He wrote: "Happy Thanksgiving to ALL, including the Racist & Incompetent Attorney General of New York State, Letitia 'Peekaboo' James, who has let Murder & Violent Crime FLOURISH, & Businesses FLEE; the Radical Left Trump Hating Judge, a 'Psycho,' Arthur Engoron, who Criminally Defrauded the State of New York, & ME, by purposely Valuing my Assets at a 'tiny' Fraction of what they are really worth in order to convict me of Fraud before even a Trial, or seeing any PROOF, & used his Politically Biased & Corrupt Campaign Finance Violator, Chief Clerk Alison Greenfield, to sit by his side on the 'Bench' & tell him what to do; & Crooked Joe Biden, who has WEAPONIZED his Department of Injustice against his Political Opponent, & allowed our Country to go to HELL; & all of the other Radical Left Lunatics, Communists, Fascists, Marxists, Democrats, & RINOS, who are seriously looking to DESTROY OUR COUNTRY.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Nov 23 - 04:45 PM

If you had no context at all, you'd have to conclude that the writer was completely off his rocker.

It's like the screeds you're occasionally handed by mentally ill people on the streets of a big city.

But since it's Trump, it's OK for a lot of people. Tens of millions in fact.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Nov 23 - 06:26 AM

”If you had no context at all, you'd have to conclude that the writer was completely off his rocker.”

Even with the full context, that is my conclusion, and has been since 2015. And I strongly doubt I’m alone in that conclusion.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Nov 23 - 08:53 AM

We expect voting disinformation. The public affairs Council says;
42% of social media is disinformaton
40% news media
32% Republican candidates
28% Democrat candidates
20% Super Pacs
11% Foreign governments
6% Major Companies

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Nov 23 - 09:00 AM

Who do we trust?
68% say friends and family !?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Nov 23 - 09:09 AM

We'd better not confuse "disinformation" with "misinformation." "Disinformation" is losing its original, crucial meaning, maybe because it sounds new and cool and precise.

Misinformation is simply mistaken.

Disinformation, though, is intentional and methodical. In other words, lies and other forms of deceit conveyed for a larger purpose.

Mixing the two together, if deliberate, would itself count as "disinformation."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Nov 23 - 09:29 AM

tru-nuff

Lyrics
We're not gonna take it
No, we ain't gonna take it
We're not gonna take it anymore
We've got the right to choose, and
There ain't no way we'll lose it
This is our life, this is our song
We'll fight the powers that be, just
Don't pick on our destiny, 'cause
You don't know us, you don't belong
We're not gonna take it
No, we ain't gonna take it
We're not gonna take it anymore
Oh, you're so condescending
Your call is never ending
We don't want nothin', not a thing from you
Your life is trite and jaded
Boring and confiscated
If that's your best, your best won't do
Woah-oh-oh
Woah-oh-oh
We're right (yeah)
We're free (yeah)
We'll fight (yeah)
You'll see (yeah)
Whoa-whoa, we're not gonna take it
No, we ain't gonna take it
We're not gonna take it anymore
We're not gonna take it
No, we ain't gonna take it
We're not gonna take it anymore
No way!
Woah-oh-oh
Woah-oh-oh
We're right (yeah)
We're free (yeah)
We'll fight (yeah)
You'll see (yeah)
We're not gonna take it
No, we ain't gonna take it
We're not gonna take it anymore
We're not gonna take it (no!)
No, we ain't gonna take it
We're not gonna take it anymore (just you try and make us)
We're not gonna take it (come on!)
No, we ain't gonna take it (you're all worthless and weak)
We're not gonna take it anymore (now drop and give me 20)
We're not gonna take it (a pledge pin)
No, we ain't gonna take it (on your uniform)
We're not gonna take it anymor

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Nov 23 - 09:20 PM

I'm so indicted
I just might bite it
I had more votes than him and now I'm indicted
So it's decided
I was...misguided?
They know, they know, they know, they know, they know, they got you, they got you

I'll get a lawyer, and I won't take chances
They're gonna offer me some kind of deal
Just plead exterminating circumstances
Or maybe like Cohen, I will squeal

Right now I'm freakin', leakin'
Right into my trousers
If I tattle, that'll
Lead to both of you
Don't go that trail
I'm too cute for jail

Don't be short-sighted
Then help me fight it
Well, if we have a good excuse, hey, I think they'll buy it
Hey, let's all try it...

I am not a crook
I did not have sexual relations with that woman, I did not organize an insurrection, Mission accomplished

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Nov 23 - 12:19 AM

He's going to be on the stand again soon, in very early December. The last witness called in the case. He can drive the last nail in the coffin lid of his family "fortune."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Nov 23 - 11:41 AM

I see another ruling has gone against him.

Keep 'em coming!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Nov 23 - 01:41 PM

Yup. The gag order is back. I hope he chokes on it.

New York judge brings back gag order on Donald Trump in civil fraud trial

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Nov 23 - 06:31 PM

Piece today from RawStory:

'Jail is next': Mary Trump cites expert saying her uncle is heading for prison

Donald Trump’s niece Mary called up an attorney to get his take on the New York appellate court’s recent ruling to uphold Judge Arthur Engoron’s gag order — and she said it looks bleak for her uncle.

“Donald will be in jail very soon,” Joe Gallina told Mary Trump, she told her substack subscribers Thursday.

She then wrote, “Knowing Donald personally, I fully agree.”

Engoron — the judge overseeing Trump’s $250 million civil court trial — instated the limited gag order last month to stop the former president from targeting his staff on social media. It was put on hold while Trump appealed, but was reinstated Thursday.

In a later filing, Engoron explained that he and a law clerk Trump accused of bias had received credible death threats.

When the appeal court's ruling came through Thursday, Engoron vowed to enforce the gag order with vigor.

“I intend to enforce the gag orders rigorously and vigorously,” Engoron reportedly said in court. "I want to make sure that counsel informs their clients of the fact that the stay was vacated."

The limited gag order does not protect speech against Engoron or his wife, which Trump quickly tested by sharing since-debunked social media posts he falsely claimed came from the judge’s wife.

Mary Trump, a psychologist, argues Trump won’t be able to prevent himself from pushing the gag order envelope further.

“Donald’s massive ego and insecurity make him unable to follow this order,” she writes. “When he is under pressure, he has zero self control.”

And Gallina believes the situation will likely escalate to jail time because Trump has already faced two fines — which amounted to $15,000 — for violating the gag order's limits.

“He was ALREADY warned about possible imprisonment – not once, but TWICE,” Gallina told Mary Trump. “He is out of chances.”

"Jail is next." added Mary Trump.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 23 - 02:44 AM

There was also the thing about failing to get possession of documents relating to the Jan 6 committee. The judge said Trump's Lawers were just on a "fishing expedition".

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Dec 23 - 06:53 AM

By the letter of the law Trump did not insult members of the court as outlined in the gag order instead, he went after the judge's wife claiming she posted something nasty, which she did not in any way shape, or form.

A gag order is very specific so in a sense, Donald did not violate the gag order but his abuse was designed to inflame both his believers and the judge. Trolls like Trump probably feel proud to skirt the rules but still accomplish misinformation. Call it clever or evil but it is typical narcissist behavior.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Dec 23 - 11:15 AM

The GOP majority in the House is down by one - Santos is out. House votes to expel indicted Rep. George Santos from Congress
The New York Republican is now just the third lawmaker since the Civil War to be expelled from the House of Representatives.

The irony here, of course, screams out loud: Santos did the same thing Trump did. Trump is still the candidate but Santos' lying and cheating got his ass kicked out.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Dec 23 - 11:32 AM

The Santos saga is an example of the failure of the press and media.
It took 11 months to get rid of the narcissistic psychopathic liar since he was not properly vetted before his election.
Ding dong the bitch is dead. He skedaddled right before the expulsion vote to avoid being frog-marched out of the building. Among his many lies and thefts of campaign funds I found laughable was his Los Vegas marriage and honeymoon.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Dec 23 - 06:42 PM

A vote for a "third party" is a vote for Trump. Case in point:

Guess Who Came to Dinner With Flynn and Putin
NBC News reviewed video and photos from a 2015 Moscow gala that Mike Flynn was paid $45,000 to attend to see who else was in the room.

Putin will still be pushing for Trump to win, quite possibly harder than before. His getting to keep huge swaths of Ukraine depend upon it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 23 - 07:21 PM

A vote for a third party may just be vote for who you want to win. To say you should vote for someone who will help Trump to lose adds up to a democratic deficit. My parliamentary constituency is North Cornwall. It's been held in the past by the Liberal Democrats, who I revile. In recent years it's been held by the Tories, who I revile even more. Far more, in fact. My sentiment is to always vote Labour, but here in north Cornwall Labour never stand a chance of taking the seat. I could shut my eyes and vote Labour as a matter of principle. Or I can decide to vote Lib Dem in the hope of keeping the Tories out. The thing is, in a democracy, that should be my decision, unhindered by anyone else telling me how to vote for whatever reason, including tactically. I don't want to be told that a vote for Labour is a wasted vote, or that if I vote Labour it will let the Tories in. In a democracy, the ballot box is the final call. Trying to sway me one way or the other at the ballot box is improper unless you know that I've been apprised in detail of the policies of all sides. After all, good democracy depends on a knowledgable electorate making informed choices.

As it happens, I vote for the Lib Dems here every time. I don't want the Tories in, so I vote and hold my nose. But if a LibDem candidate told me to vote for them in order to keep the Tories out, I'd very rapidly tell them where to shove it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Dec 23 - 09:23 PM

A vote for a third party may just be vote for who you want to win.

No, Steve, it doesn't mean that, and stop acting like we don't know what we're talking about here. If you vote for a third party candidate who has no chance in hell to win, then that vote doesn't go to Biden. It supports Trump.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Charmion
Date: 02 Dec 23 - 11:33 PM

The Westminster-style parliamentary system enjoyed by both Britain and Canada accommodates third and even fourth parties without angst because coalition-forming is normal. It’s too different from the American two-party congress to be fully comparable.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Dec 23 - 11:58 AM

Liz Cheney's perspective:


https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-liz-cheney-book-blasts-221143621.html


And don't miss:

https://newrepublic.com/article/177249/2024-trump-presidency-sleepwalking

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 23 - 12:02 PM

I'm not acting like anything, Maggie, and there's no need for that kind of hostility. I'm saying that no-one should be telling you to vote tactically, because telling you to do that is undemocratic. But it's perfectly democratic to vote that way if you so choose without pressure to do so from someone else (which is what I do). In democracies, discussion of the merits or otherwise of the contenders is the proper democratic way to persuade people. We fight long and hard for democracy and we should keep it that way. There's far too much ignorance among the electorate in your country, my country and lots of other western countries, and cynical exploitation of that ignorance is rife, which is why Trump and Johnson and the idiot in Argentina are possible. With an educated electorate there's no need to go down the slippery slope of saying, if you vote for A you'll let B in. We can work that out for ourselves and large numbers of people will do it anyway.

Charmion, national coalitions are not the norm in the UK. We've had just the one in my lifetime, the disaster of 2010 to 2015 which shat on working people, the health service and schools and which sowed the seeds for brexit.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Dec 23 - 12:12 PM

Trump has again expressed disbelief that Biden isn't being charged for the few Top Secret documents found in his old office. Frank Figliuzzi blows a hole in that sentiment.

Former FBI official blows a hole in Trump's latest stolen document defense

The former FBI official responded, "Unlike Trump, who was aware for at least 16 months that the U.S. government wanted its documents back, Biden told reporters that he was 'surprised' to learn of the classified documents and didn’t know what was in them," before pointing out, "Importantly, Trump is accused of suggesting that his lawyer “hide or destroy” the classified documents, and instructing Walt Nauta, his personal assistant who is also indicted, to relocate and conceal boxes of the government documents. Some of that hide-and-seek movement was captured on security video obtained by the FBI in July 2022."

Adding, "Trump’s indictment cites multiple instances when he took specific actions to attempt to hide, conceal or tamper with evidence. Again, Trump’s reported conduct starkly contrasts with Biden’s reported conduct," Figluzzi suggested Trump had no reaction to former Vice President Mike Pence also getting a pass from the DOJ for also retaining documents which he quickly returned.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 03 Dec 23 - 05:53 PM

Steve Shaw, coalitions in the Westminster systems are rarely formal and may be based only on the issue before the House. Who props up the minority will change from day to day or even from vote to vote -- but that's okay. In the long run, it tends to produce what the people want, e.g.: in Canada, medicare and a new flag.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 23 - 08:45 PM

I see what you're saying, but I must tell you that, in the bigger picture, UK politics doesn't really embrace coalitions in the usual sense of the word. Informal and temporary deals, maybe. We wouldn't use the term "coalition" here for such arrangements.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 05:32 AM

Trump has neutralized and confused terminology for the unwashed public by calling Biden an enemy of Democracy and a fascist.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 09:10 AM

A "fascist" *and* a "communist" running a government of "thugs."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 10:31 AM

Cheney will be interviewed on the Rachel Maddow Show tonight. MSNBC.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 04:11 PM

Will Trump choose Gen. Flynn as his running mate? Flynn is the hero of Qanon, deep state conspiracies, Christian Nationalists, weaponized militias, and digital warriors. My knowledge of psy ops and hypnosis causes me to see Fynn as the inheritor of Trumpism, not Republicans.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 05:58 AM

The three scenarios of 2024 elections are
Trump loses with more domestic terrorism.
Trump wins and adopts a voting system akin to Putin's.
Trump wins and and uses the military domestically which becomes divided and chaotic, Courts are ignored, and a void of actual leadership leads to a fundamental collapse of secular government and skirmishes of religious Christian nationalist sects for dominance.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 12:43 PM

Well there are more scenarios than that. The far more likely and far less sensational one is that he'll just be a terrible president for four more years, then he'll enter the dustbin of history. That's not intended to be reassuring, because even that would still be a disaster for the planet.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 10:50 PM

He wouldn't be a terrible president for four more years, he would become a dictator. He won't make the mistake of putting in any staff who would stop him from mischief. He'll put in allies who let him do what he wants. The rule of law, the role of the Department of Justice, all of that out in the trash.

He needs to be in prison.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 11:55 PM

And his potential underhanded collaborations with Putin are too terrible to contemplate.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Dec 23 - 02:32 AM

We tend to not consider his age- 77 now, he'd be 79 upon inauguration, and 83 at the end of his term. Given his diet and lack of exercise, I rather doubt that he'll make truly old bones. More alarming is that his example would allow and encourage successive presidents to shred what remained of the Constitution and the traditions that are currently our norm. It is hard to foresee a happy ending.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 23 - 04:51 AM

So you don't trust your hard-won instruments of state to constrain him. Today, the man who spent seven years wrecking this country is appearing before an enquiry which will expose his severe shortcomings in the pandemic. He was forensically investigated for his breaches of covid lockdown rules and, though his fixed penalty fine was derisory, his reputation was ruined as his lack of integrity was exposed. We suspected that he wanted to ride roughshod over some laws but the instruments of state pulled him up short. I may be premature but I suspect that he will make a fool of himself today as the enquiry pulls him to pieces. We are currently witnessing strenuous efforts by our government to override human rights laws in order to promote a doomed and pointless populist scheme to deport refugees to an unstable African country. They will fail, because there is equally strenuous opposition, in spite of years of damaging populism.

At worst, Trump will get four more years. It's a fair bet that he'll become a lame duck president half way through. I'm surprised to read your apocalyptic predictions. I don't live there, but I'd like to hear you explain how he could become a dictator. He has done a lot of damage and will do much more, but are you seriously suggesting that there won't be a presidential election in 2028? And, speaking of holding former leaders to account, a vital cog in the wheels of democracy, why hasn't Trump been held to account for conniving in the Jan 6 riot, if not actually inciting it?

Germane to this discussion is the second Reith Lecture, given by Professor Ben Ansell, which I've just listened to. He discussed the uneasy position of liberal democracy between anarchy and autocracy. There are more pressures than just Trump. There's social media and there's AI. Of course, he'll try to use them to his advantage. He hasn't do too well so far with social media but his followers have.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Dec 23 - 12:18 PM

With Santos out last week it's interesting that McCarthy announced that he's leaving Congress at the end of this year. Meaning a few days left (considering the generous recess they take).

McCarthy Says He Will Leave Congress at the End of the Year
About two months after being ousted as speaker, Representative Kevin McCarthy said he would exit the House a year early.

Mr. McCarthy’s imminent departure will shrink the already slim Republican majority, which went to three seats from four with the expulsion last week of Representative George Santos of New York.

After he was ousted from the speakership in October, Mr. McCarthy gave an inconclusive answer about whether he would remain in Congress. “I’ll take a look at that,” he said then. Later, in an effort to bat down reports and rumors that he was leaving immediately, he told reporters that he was staying and even planned to run for re-election.

But his position as a rank-and-file member of the House side by side with the Republicans who voted to remove him from power had grown untenable and Mr. McCarthy found the experience to be incredibly painful. His closest allies on the Hill have been anticipating his imminent departure for weeks, even as he has dodged questions about his future.

So another of Trump's toadys is out and the lunatic fringe are still there (MTG, Gaetz, Boebert, etc.)

Trump wants to take over the ability to call elections and wants to let Putin win in Ukraine. This GOP House has been largely inclined to tilt in those directions.

To spell this out, the number of members needed to hold the slimmest of majorities is 218. The GOP right now have 221. There are a couple of vacant seats in the House. The deadline to run for the seat in California is on Friday, hence McCarthy's timing (the NY Times article is a short one to start with this announcement, they'll spell it out more as the story takes shape). If the house were to flip before the end of the term a LOT of work could get done in a hurry this term, so if any other disaffected GOP members were to leave before next year's election, it could happen. It would allow things like the John Lewis voting rights legislation to go through to shore up election security (the GOP have tried to tear apart election apparatus at the local level since the Supreme Court knocked out large pieces of the old Voting Rights Act. Putting the act in place would make all of the GOP nonsense moot.)

Wikipedia

As to the last post: It's a fair bet that he'll become a lame duck president half way through. Don't kid yourself. Stop yanking our chains and stay on topic. Your pontificating is unpleasant.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Dec 23 - 12:31 PM

Trump promises the faithful that, yes, he will be a dictator - but only on Day One. (Then he'll be nice again....) He also said "Al Capone was one of the greatest, if you like criminals."

(Hey, he's being sarcastic! Wotta sense of humor! Lighten up, fascists!)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hear-trump-response-asked-promise-062722664.html

And you know who else has a great sense of humor? That Kash Patel, former NSC advisor:

https://apnews.com/article/trump-2024-second-term-prosecute-media-b892fd6f3ce721016eb1176e82aa51c3

These guys crack me up. But commie-libs don't get it! Hopeless!

(Irony - as if you didn't know.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 23 - 12:56 PM

It's a discussion forum, my recent posts in this thread are full of conjecture without pontificating and you are being unnecessarily hostile. You THINK he's going to be a dictator. I DOUBT that he will. I'm not "pulling your chain" when I ask how you think he'll achieve it. OK, Maggie, I'm a man and not a yank (worse still, a Brit) which seems to mean that I don't qualify to have a view. I'm not trolling in this thread, the stuff I last posted is no more off-topic than much of the stuff in your last post (check the thread title) and you need to be more tolerant. Thank you.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 06 Dec 23 - 01:18 PM

Trump said he will be a dictator in a media interview. See the first link posted by Lighter, for example the third article on that page:

Daily Telegraph, Thu, December 7, 2023 at 4:29 AM GMT+11

"Donald Trump has said he will become a dictator for the first day of his second term if he wins next year’s presidential election.

"The Republican frontrunner refused to deny that he would abuse his power to seek revenge on political opponents if re-elected to the White House.

“'You are promising America, tonight, you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody?' Sean Hannity, a Fox News host who has long been a supporter of Trump, asked during a televised town hall in Iowa on Tuesday.

“'Except for day one,' Mr Trump responded."

Or this paragraph in Oz ABC News:

"Mr Trump on Tuesday was asked by Fox News Channel's Sean Hannity to promise he 'would never abuse power as retribution against anybody'.

"'Except for day one,' Mr Trump responded.

"'I want to close the border and I want to drill, drill, drill.

"'After that, I'm not a dictator.'"

And in my opinion, i he thinks it's acceptable to be a dictator on day one, then he will not stop at day one.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 23 - 01:29 PM

Well we generally tend not to believe anything he says. You don't get to be a dictator, not even for a day, just because you say "I'm going to be a dictator." He's a very dangerous man, and we don't need that to necessarily come from the horse's mouth. The most important thing is that he doesn't get elected. I read yesterday that a poll has got Biden trailing him. One dangerous move towards autocracy is one he shared with Netanyahu, his attempt to rig the Supreme Court.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Dec 23 - 02:03 PM

Bad news for Benito:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/wisconsin-pro-trump-fake-electors-172858588.html

The Deep State musta threatened their fams, right?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Dec 23 - 05:52 PM

Believe him when he says what he is going to do. Hillary told everyone that during the 2016 election, and she was right. It's still advice to listen to now.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Dec 23 - 08:31 PM

A Trump anthology for those who haven't been listening:


https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-2024-campaign-own-131309917.html

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Dec 23 - 07:41 AM

The forms for prospective jurors in the Trump insurrection trial have been mailed out this week.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Dec 23 - 11:12 AM

I do not blame the media for calling Trump's base merely as his supporters. Actually, his base identify themselves as Spiritual Warriors by religious indoctrination preachers and Gen. Flynn as Christian Nationalists. Decades of home-schooling have been churning out these obedient fascists. They now number as many as one in three voters. To publicize them primarily by their cult religion would throw a monkey wrench of stigmatizing or victimizing Trump Christians, although the teaching of Jesus is far from their faith. They come in various groups such as Qanon and numerous Christian denominations but 'where they go one they go all' as their chant goes.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Dec 23 - 11:40 AM

QanonQanon is now a psy op that has many missions from supporting RFK Jr. to
reinforcing right-wing conspiracies.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/michael-flynn-is-recruiting-an-army-of-god-in-growing-christian-nationalist-movement

Trump Preacher
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/06/us/capitol-riot-paths-to-insurrection/pastors.html and this is the tip of the iceberg.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Dec 23 - 01:52 PM

Trump returns again to his New York civil fraud trial as two months of testimony nears end
Dated Dec. 7, 2023

Former President Donald Trump returned to his civil business fraud trial as a spectator Thursday, after a month of assailing the proceedings from afar.

With testimony winding down after more than two months, the Republican 2024 presidential front-runner showed up to watch an accounting professor testify about financial topics important to the case.

Trump himself is scheduled to take the stand Monday [Dec. 11], for a second time.

Even while campaigning to reclaim the presidency and fighting four criminal cases, Trump is devoting a lot of attention to the New York lawsuit. He’s been a frustrated onlooker, a confrontational witness and a heated commentator outside the courtroom door.

The rest at the link.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 07 Dec 23 - 02:22 PM

I agree with Ebbie's comment on 6 Dec about Trump's age and health, especially his diet and lack of exercise.

I also still think that the internal pressure of the gag orders, not being able to let that constant stream of internal lava out of his system, will be the trigger point. Just look at the photos of him trying to stop himself from unleashing all of that negativity onto the world. It has to be affecting his blood pressure and his heart - well, if he has a heart, that is.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Dec 23 - 08:19 PM

The accountant who testified for the defense today was only there to talk about the practice of finance and accounting, he was not there to discuss motivation, so it was apparently a bit of a downer for the Trump team. The judge seemed engaged, apparently interested in the different information being presented.

Friday is always a short day in court, Trump should be on the stand on Monday.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 07 Dec 23 - 08:40 PM

Hi SRS, I noticed the article you referred to is dated in December but the dates you gave are in November.

(In view of the recent mixed up dates on Mudcat threads, I thought your post was out of order on the list but now I suspect you might be in Christmas denial. Yes, Christmas IS only a couple of weeks away! LOL)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 23 - 08:39 AM

What does personal revenge look like when Donald lives in a moral void but is given Imperial power?
Should he win by subversion or violence do you think he will fixate on punishment? Perhaps he won't need a coup.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Dec 23 - 09:20 AM

Trump seeks his dream team:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/grifters-sycophants-radicals-fill-key-120051434.html

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 23 - 09:44 AM

Stephen Miller
always reminded me of Himmler.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Dec 23 - 11:50 AM

Helen, fixed, thanks! A bit of a brain fart there. Not so much denial as just forgetting that the year is almost over! It has flown past (and continues to evolve as we watch the race between the courts trying Trump and the 2024 election looming).

Miller is one scary SOB. Even his family won't have anything to do with him and have denounced his ideas in public venues.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 08 Dec 23 - 01:19 PM

Yes, the year's flying by. My little joke on that is when we get older, we don't say, "Oh it's morning again", or "Oh it's Monday again", we say "Oh it's January again". :-D

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Dec 23 - 03:31 PM

Master Calendar of Trump Court Dates: Criminal and Civil Cases

If you don't have a scorecard to keep track of his trials and hearings, there is a handy calendar hosted by the Just Security site. And in case you wonder what that is:

Just Security is an online forum for the rigorous analysis of security, democracy, foreign policy, and rights. Founded in 2013, we aim to promote principled and pragmatic solutions to problems confronting decision-makers in the United States and abroad. Our expert authors are individuals with significant government experience, academics, civil society practitioners, individuals directly affected by national security policies, and other leading voices. Our Board of Editors includes a broad range of leading experts on domestic and international law and policy. Just Security is based at the Reiss Center on Law and Security at New York University School of Law.

Trump fraud trial: Former president to return to witness stand Monday
The former president is on trial in New York for allegedly defrauding lenders.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 10 Dec 23 - 04:07 PM

Trump's lawyers have now persuaded him not to testify.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Dec 23 - 08:47 PM

I heard that today. So next up the government can present a rebuttal to the Trump defense (or not). The radio commentator remarked that Trump has such a squishy relationship with the truth (my words - I don't remember exactly what they said) that not testifying is better for him.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Dec 23 - 08:10 AM

He will hate not being able to spout his venom. What's the betting that later this week he will accuse the court of trying to silence him?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 23 - 08:22 AM

I know Stilly River Sage likes to remain on topic and stay on topic but I believe the larger implications involved are crucial.
The Trump indictments and trials were deliberately delayed to minimize blowback or possibly to coincide with his campaign. Trump will be a no-show in more than debates. Defiance can speak louder than words in court. Chaos, fear, defiance, disinformation, and dysfunction are the usual tools of his trade.

Retribution from his trials has led to a Biden impeachment inquiry and his son facing 17 years in prison while Richard Pryor was not charged for similar actions from his addiction.

I am hoping a Trump stochastic terror attack on the courts does not set a precedent for more violence.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 23 - 01:24 PM

But despite everything:

A little over a month before the Iowa caucus kicks off the Republican presidential primary, Donald Trump has expanded his “commanding” lead in the first-to-vote state, a new Des Moines Register/NBC News poll found.....he received 51% support in the Iowa poll....

...His closest challenger, the hard-right Florida governor Ron DeSantis, took 19%...

....That meant Trump’s lead was the largest ever recorded in the influential poll so close to a competitive caucus day.

If he stands, he wins, doesn't he? Bit of a bottom line there...

(The quoted snippets are from a Guardian news report)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Dec 23 - 06:55 AM

What a kidder, Trump joked that he would be a dictator on day one.
Man, what a knee-slapper.

The Supreme Court will take up the Trump immunity defense next week.
Trump lawyers hoped to delay with a lower court appeal in DC regarding his insurrection trial. It was ruled that Nixon could not be sued for doing his job as President but this is a different kettle of fish.
This is stinky four-year-old fish.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Dec 23 - 06:16 PM

Material From Russia Investigation Went Missing as Trump Left Office
A binder given to the Trump White House contained details that intelligence agencies believe could reveal secret sources and methods.

So apparently this folder was copied by WH staffers who were redacting some of the material that Trump wanted to publicise. The FBI and security folks became alarmed and gathered up the notebooks but they can tell that one is still missing and it may be Mark Meadows has or had it.

Material from a binder with highly classified information connected to the investigation into Russian efforts to meddle in the 2016 election disappeared in the final days of Donald J. Trump’s presidency, two people familiar with the matter said.

The disappearance of the material, known as the “Crossfire Hurricane” binder for the name given to the investigation by the F.B.I., vexed national security officials and set off concerns that sensitive information could be inappropriately shared, one of the people said.

The material’s disappearance was reported earlier Friday by CNN. The matter was so concerning to officials that the Senate Intelligence Committee was briefed about it last year, a U.S. official said.

The binder consists of a hodgepodge of materials related to the origins and early stages of the Russia investigation that were collected by Trump administration officials. They included copies of botched F.B.I. applications for national-security surveillance warrants to wiretap a former Trump campaign adviser as well as text messages between two F.B.I. officials involved in the inquiry, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, expressing animus toward Mr. Trump.

The substance of the material — a redacted version of which has since been made public under the Freedom of Information Act and is posted on the website of the F.B.I. — is not considered particularly sensitive, the official said.

But the raw version in the binder contained details that intelligence agencies believe could reveal secret sources and methods. (The publicly available version contains numerous portions that were whited out as classified.)

It is not clear if the missing material comprises the entire original binder of material provided to the White House for Mr. Trump’s team to review and declassify in part before leaving office.

Read the rest at the top link.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 15 Dec 23 - 06:17 PM

Rudy Giuliani ordered to pay nearly $150 million to two Georgia election workers he defamed

"A Washington, DC, jury has ordered Rudy Giuliani to pay nearly $150 million to two Georgia election workers for the harm caused by defamatory statements he made about them following the 2020 election."

...

"During the trial, an attorney for Freeman and Moss showed videos and played audio clips in which Giuliani repeated false claims that the two election workers stuffed ballots and were caught on video allegedly passing a USB drive as part of a vote-stealing scheme.

"None of those claims were true, and the supposed USB drive was a ginger mint."

....



He is claiming he doesn't have funds to pay, and that section of the article "How much money does Giuliani have?" also lists a number of other unpaid debts owed including "..more than $1 million to defense attorneys who’ve helped him on other matters, prompting them to sue him this year".

....

"It’s also not clear if Giuliani would be able to declare bankruptcy to shield himself from any sum of damages in this lawsuit. That issue, according to people familiar with the case, may have to be decided by the courts at a later time, and it’s possible he could still be on the hook for the award to Freeman and Moss, even if he goes into bankruptcy."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Dec 23 - 06:24 PM

Trump isn't paying the legal fees of the folks who were caught in the same net. The only parties winning in all of this (if they can get their clients to pay them) are the attorneys.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 15 Dec 23 - 08:38 PM

I posted the link to the article because I know the Giuliani case is not specific to Trump but it is related by association to Trump's claims of election rigging. I imagine it is everyone for him/herself in Trump's world when the legal battles start piling up.

I also am speculating that Giuliani has already siphoned off most of his assets to a sunny island somewhere and is now claiming his pockets are empty. It's very sad that he has had to put a house on the market for a measly price of a little over $4 million. He'll probably claim that that represents his total assets.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Dec 23 - 06:28 AM

Rudy can always return to acting to replenish his coffers. Oh wait, he wasn't acting.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Dec 23 - 11:58 AM

Some of his fellow indictees in the State of Georgia have issued one sentence apologies to fulfill a requirement when they pled guilty. As skimpy as they are, they are another form of admission of guilt.

You'll never see Trump apologise or admit guilt, and if you read his niece Mary Trump's analysis of the situation, you'll see he's pretty much incapable of such things.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 23 - 03:56 PM

Skimpy indictees sound like diapers that are too small.

I would like to see more fake electors face justice but that is as likely as Gulliani paying up for his crimes.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Dec 23 - 05:23 AM

Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows was denied moving his GA court case to a DC Federal Court which could make his outcome more dire.

Guilliani is standing by his lie.

Sometimes it's hard to be a fascist
Givin' all your love to just one man
You'll have the bad times
And he'll have the good times
Doing things that you don't understand
But if you love him, you'll forgive him
Even though he's hard to understand, mm, mm
And if you love him, oh, be proud of him
'Cause after all, he's just a man
Stand by your lie
Give him more arms to cling to
And some more harm to come to
When camps are cold and lonely
Stand by your lie
And show the world you love him
Keep giving all the cash you can, mm, mm
Stand by your lie, hmm, hmm
Stand by your lie (Ooh, ooh)
Even though you know it won't fly (Ooh, ooh)
Just give him all the power you can
Stand by your lie, mm, mm, mm


Well, it wasn't funny last weekend with over a hundred bomb threats against Synagogues from Massachusetts to Colorado and throughout the South. The Trump quotes taken directly from Mein Kampf are polling well in Des Moines.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Dec 23 - 01:38 PM

An excerpt from an interview with former House Speaker Paul Ryan surfaced last week and is a good read on how GOP politics are going these days:

Donald Trump is “not a conservative”, the former Republican House speaker Paul Ryan said, but “a populist, authoritarian narcissist”.

The former vice-presidential pick, who led the House majority for two years when Trump was president, also praised the Republicans Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger for opposing Trump to the cost of their congressional careers.

Ryan, from Wisconsin, left Congress in 2019 and now sits on the board of Fox Corp, parent company of Fox News. He was speaking to Kevin Kajiwara, co-president of Teneo Political Risk Advisory, in a podcast interview recorded in November but widely noticed this week.

This article from The Guardian offers commentary and also a link to the full hour+ interview. The fact that Ryan is now at Fox Corp, the parent company of FAUX NEWS shows he's still in the conservative ranks, not in the Lincoln Project, etc.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 19 Dec 23 - 01:39 PM

Good one, Donuel!

And as you said, SRS, "The only parties winning in all of this (if they can get their clients to pay them) are the attorneys" and that means that when clients are not paying the attorneys it is a bad strategic move, biting the hand that feeds them, their only defence.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 03:00 AM

Colorado Supreme Court bans Donald Trump from the state's ballot under US constitution's insurrection clause

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 06:33 AM

Now it's the Supreme Court's turn to uphold the Colorado court, overturn or make a decision in between the two.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 08:01 AM

There are at least three issues at stake:

1. a legal definition of "insurrection" and its application in this case.

2. the question of why the Amendment doesn't specify president and vice-president if it applies to them.

3. just who - courts or Congress - decides on whether a candidate has engaged in insurrection.

The split opinion of the Colorado Supreme Court shows that these won't be simple decisions for SCOTUS.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 08:18 AM

BTW, similar suits have already been rejected by the supreme courts of New Hampshire, Arizona, and Minnesota.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 08:27 AM

I saw a meme the other day with a bloke sat behind a desk saying to a job applicant

"So, you used to work here before but you defrauded your expenses, stole company secrets, you sexually harassed you female colleagues and when you got fired you got all your friends to attack the board room. Tell me why you think you should be re-employed..."

That is what it looks like from over here and, sadly, it looks like he will get the job :-(

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 08:59 AM

The Supreme Court is politized beyond the norm with Trump appointees.
The 3 issues proposed here are legally moot and do not support any vindication of Trump in the language of article three or by precedent.
The ultimate decision will either support other Republican candidates or make a clear advocacy of Fascism. However the Court flips this coin they will appear to be evil to Republicans for Trump or Democrats for democracy. Roberts is between a rock and a disintegration of the Constitution they were meant to interpret. He probably thinks throwing it back to voters is a Solomon option but he would be wrong imo.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 10:16 AM

The Colorado Supreme Court did a masterful job of interpreting the 14th amendment section 3. It was methodical, conscientious, and was not political whatsoever. It was to the letter of the law. It is up to Trump to appeal before New Year's day.

I beg to differ with Trump that vermin are poisoning the blood of America. https://www.amazon.com/Delicious-Vermin-Rosie-Barham/dp/0992606241

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 10:56 AM

Supreme Court? Don't hold your breath, folks.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 10:59 AM

From historian Heather Cox Richardson's Letters from an American yesterday:

This evening, by a vote of 4–3, the Colorado Supreme Court decided that former president Donald Trump is disqualified from holding office and should be removed from the 2024 ballot in the state, citing Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

That section was written in the wake of the Civil War, after former Confederates had reelected to Congress men who had left in 1861 to try to destroy the United States government after voters elected Abraham Lincoln.

The section reads: “No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.”

Six Colorado Republican and Independent voters challenged Trump’s inclusion on the state’s ballots because of his role in the January 6, 2021, attempt to stop the counting of the nation’s lawful electoral ballots that had elected Democrat Joe Biden president in 2020. Last month, Denver District Court Judge Sarah Wallace ruled that Trump had engaged in insurrection by inciting the riot that led to an attack on the U.S. Capitol but said that Section 3 did not apply to the president.

Today the Colorado Supreme Court agreed that the events at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021, constituted an “insurrection” and that Trump “engaged in” that insurrection through his personal actions, including his incitement of the crowd that breached the Capitol. But it disagreed that the 14th Amendment did not apply to the president.

“The sum of these parts is this,” the court wrote. “Trump is disqualified from holding the office of President under Section Three; because he is disqualified, it would be a wrongful act under the Election Code for the Secretary to list him as a candidate on the presidential primary ballot.”

“We do not reach these conclusions lightly,” the court said. “We are mindful of the magnitude and weight of the questions now before us. We are likewise mindful of our solemn duty to apply the law, without fear or favor, and without being swayed by public reaction to the decisions that the law mandates we reach.” Colorado voters preferred Democratic candidates to Trump in 2016 and 2020, so this case is less likely to reflect on Colorado in 2024 than it is to open the door to other challenges in swing states.

The president is nothing if not an officer of the United States.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 11:00 AM

The rest of Richardson's newsletter can be read on Facebook or her Substack column.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Dec 23 - 10:34 AM

It has taken many years to speak of Trump and Hitler in the same breath and be taken seriously. The next step is to speak of Trump and domestic terrorism as part and parcel.

Bomb threats have risen exponentially.
Keeping people from the polls is the plan.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Dec 23 - 01:04 PM

The judges in the Colorado Supreme Court decision have received a lot of threats. Trumpites are unleashed.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Dec 23 - 10:11 AM

Dr Johnson defined "patriotism" as "the last refuge of the scoundrel"; and Asimov later wrote "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent". I hereby channel Ambrose Bierce: "It is not the last resort, but the first."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Dec 23 - 12:45 PM

I don't think I agree with the good doctor. Here's George Orwell on patriotism:

"By 'patriotism' I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force upon other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality." [wiki]

The first sentence there echoes only good sentiments. "Best in the world" may not represent clear thinking but it reflects contentment and positive feelings about where you live. "America first" and "Make America great again" have nothing to do with patriotism and everything to do with ultra-nationalism, and resemble a quasi-religious form of bigotry.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Dec 23 - 12:57 PM

And, like religion, it’s another control mechanism.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Dec 23 - 03:06 PM

Jack Smith recently requested that the Supreme Court decide quickly on the immunity claim made by Trump and just now the court offered a one-sentence order that they won't take up the case. So it is left to the Court of Appeals (Jan. 9 hearing scheduled). This is parallel to the Nixon refusal to respond to the subpoena for the White House tapes - the Supreme Court was asked to decide ahead of the court of appeals, and they did so. Nixon had to hand over the tapes.

Trump is into delay delay delay, so this is the Supreme Court dragging its feet that can benefit him (there is no information about the makeup of the members as far as this order - 5-4 or all nine, etc.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Dec 23 - 05:27 PM

To say "patriotism" is "the last refuge of the scoundrel" doesn't logically mean that all patriots are scoundrels - just that some of them are not really patriots.

Just sayin'.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Dec 23 - 06:17 PM

I had that thought too, but the expression is routinely used without that context, unfortunately. As for me, I thank my lucky stars that I was born and raised in good old Blighty. I love it and have travelled all over it, Scotland too. But I'd never say it's the best place on earth or that anyone else's home patch is in any way inferior. I think I'm a rock-solid patriot!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Dec 23 - 12:48 PM

An interview with PhD psychologist niece Mary Trump talked about Trump's use of phrases and concepts from Hitler's Mein Kampf. While they aren't original ideas to Trump, she said he probably hasn't read Hitler's book - "He doesn't read." I've linked to the Wikipedia description. Maybe he checked out that for the background. And I'd guess that some of his minions like Stephen Miller have acquainted him with the philosophy regarding non-Aryan races.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 23 - 10:43 AM

Maine removes Trump from ballot.
after weeks of humiliating ineptitude, the Republicans manage to elect a new speaker, an individual named “Mike Johnson” who wasn’t on anybody’s list, and in fact isn’t even a member of Congress. He was delivering a pizza to the Capitol and seemed at least marginally competent — all the toppings were correct — so they made him speaker. Minutes after delivering a pizza to the House of Representatives, Mike Johnson is elected Speaker. Kent Nishimura / USA TODAY NETWORK So the Republicans are a pathetic joke. This should be good for the Democrats, but they have big problems of their own. The public is increasingly dissatisfied with the Biden administration, which has based its appeal to the voters on four major claims: 1. Inflation is no longer a problem. 2. The border is under control. 3. The president is fully capable, physically and mentally, of carrying out his duties for another full term. 4. The Moon is actually a giant spaceship controlled by an alien race of highly intelligent rutabagas. Polls show that the public is deeply skeptical of these claims, especially the first three. In fact the voters are skeptical of pretty much everything happening in Washington, and increasingly pessimistic about the future; it is a worrisome time in America. Fortunately, the international outlook is more promising, especially in the often-volatile Middle East, which lately has been unusually peacef.... Never mind.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 23 - 10:18 AM

Goodbye Trump

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 23 - 10:27 AM

I could only stand about 30 seconds of that crap parody.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Dec 23 - 12:48 PM

I hope one day we learn what the story is behind why AG Garland took so long to go ahead with the investigations and prosecutions of Trump. That there is a reasonable reason.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Dec 23 - 07:02 AM

That is a profound question.

There were many unknowns after 1-6 despite the obvious actions by the Trump forces. On top of the cool-down argument of the MAGA mob, there were many historical reasons to delay and nail down the details of how far the infection had spread. Two issues resembled the McCarthy era and the WWII spread of fascism within Congress. Strangely enough, we were also facing the ramifications of a president using the Roy Cohn handbook of the big lie, delay, countersuit, and deny strategies. Don't forget a young Donald Trump actually retained Roy Cohn.

Allowing insurrectionist politicians to roast in their own juices could allow a few of them to come forward and inform on others.
The gears of justice are designed to grind slowly.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jan 24 - 08:45 PM

Recall that a Florida court decided to stop the recount of the Bush v Gore vote.
The Supreme Court then took 2 whole days to decide that Bush won the election.
Compare the time it is taking the Supreme Court to decide anything about the Trump 2020 election or his qualification to run again.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 02 Jan 24 - 09:10 PM

Donald Trump appeals Maine ruling barring him from ballot under US constitution's insurrection clause

Key points:

"Donald Trump's lawyers argue his removal from the Maine ballot was 'due to her bias'

"He is also expected to appeal a similar decision in Colorado
   
"Mr Trump contends he incited no riot, never swore to 'support' the constitution and was not a government officer"

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 24 - 09:13 PM

His clown car can't keep it between the ditches; they're all over the place in that list of imaginary "facts."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 02 Jan 24 - 11:49 PM

The part of the article called "History of Section 3" makes an interesting point:

...

"The two-sentence clause says that anyone who swore an oath to 'support' the constitution and then engaged in insurrection cannot hold office unless a two-thirds vote of Congress allows it.

"Mr Trump's lawyers argue the provision isn't intended to apply to the president, contending that the oath for the top office in the land isn't to 'support' the constitution but instead to 'preserve, protect and defend' it.

"They also argue that the presidency isn't explicitly mentioned in the amendment, only any 'officer of the United States'.

[Note from me: The next paragraph is the interesting bit]

"Mr Trump made the opposite argument defending against his prosecution for falsifying business records by the Manhattan District Attorney's office, contending the case should move to federal court because the president is "an officer of the United States".

"The prosecutors argued that language only applies to presidential appointees — Mr Trump's position in Maine.

"The contention that Section 3 doesn't apply to the president drew a scathing response from the Colorado Supreme Court last month.

"'President Trump asks us to hold that Section 3 disqualifies every oath breaking insurrectionist except the most powerful one and that it bars oath breakers from virtually every office, both state and federal, except the highest one in the land,' the court's majority opinion said.

"'Both results are inconsistent with the plain language and history of Section 3.'"

After reading this bit from the second paragraph I quoted above "...contending that the oath for the top office in the land isn't to 'support' the constitution but instead to 'preserve, protect and defend' it' I'm wondering how on earth Trump can argue that inciting a riot at the Capitol, where people died trying to defend the Capitol can be defined as preserving, protecting and defending the Constitution.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 06:42 AM

Here's your problem, which is also the world's problem: in whichever national poll you look at, Trump is ahead of Biden (wiki was my source).

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 07:14 AM

That is a pathetic source subject to deliberate corruption.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 08:08 AM

What about PBS?

Are they pathetic too? From that article

Biden vs. Trump

Public polling strongly suggests that voters do not want a rematch between Trump and Biden.

Most U.S. adults overall (56%) would be “very” or “somewhat” dissatisfied with Biden as the Democratic presidential nominee in 2024, according to a poll conducted last month by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. A similar majority (58%) said they would be very or somewhat dissatisfied with Trump as the GOP’s pick.

Perhaps because of such apathy, some voters simply don’t believe Biden and Trump will end up on the general election ballot, despite strong evidence to the contrary. That’s an idea that conservative strategist Sarah Longwell, who founded the Republican Accountability Project, says she hears regularly during weekly focus groups with voters across the political spectrum.

“Voters really aren’t thinking about it, so they don’t see the thing that’s coming right at us — the most likely scenario, which is Trump vs. Biden,” Longwell said. “But Trump is so dangerous. … I wish the level of urgency from everybody matched the reality of where we are headed.”

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 08:12 AM

It's like watching a train that is about to crash. All the outsiders in the rest of the world can see it is about to happen but those on the US train are in denial :-(

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 08:23 AM

Very good Dave, I would expect that only Americans could notice the degraded integrity of NPR and some PBS journalism. The main point of voter fatigue in another Trump-Biden face-off is however true.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 09:17 AM

Trump's best bet - a strong one, I think, as a non-lawyer - is Section 5 of the Amendment, which seems not to get much attention in these discussions:

"The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

He can argue that it takes an act of Congress to disqualify a candidate in a national election and possibly in a state primary as well.

Admittedly it doesn't say "Congress alone," but interpretation will be up to the Supreme court.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 09:45 AM

The state of Maine's Attorney General that obeyed the 14th amendment that disqualifies Trump from running for office was Swatted the following day, which is an anonymous caller claiming an emergency involving a shooting that prompted an armed response by law enforcement that has led to an accidental shooting of residents.

The bomb threats, Swatting, arson, and shootings by Trump supporters resemble the Taliban more each day.

Lighter could you expand on what the 5th Amendment orders and by whom?
The word shall, which means must, does not appear. I do not trust the Supreme Court to be literalists anymore.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 10:36 AM

What I quoted is the entirety of Section 5, which applies (it seems) to all four preceding sections.

Read the whole Amendment here:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 11:25 AM

Stop the sniping. Steve and Donuel, we're all sick of it. Keep your opinions about each other's posts to yourselves. Everyone else, if you can stop referencing those remarks they can be deleted without interrupting the conversation.

ABC ran a story on December 29, 2023, that NPR and MSNBC and others have referenced. They did the hard work, digging into the Congressional Record and probably reading a lot of published speeches by the Senators holding the discussion about that amendment. (I've had to scan the speeches of House members discussing the Wilmot Proviso, to do with allowing slavery in Western states - it was earlier but will be much the same format of published remarks.)

As it originally passed the House, the 14th Amendment's third section was not nearly as broad as the version now being invoked to strike Trump's name from the ballot. It was narrowly crafted to apply only to those who willingly took part in the Civil War, and it was only meant to deprive former confederates of their right to cast ballots in federal elections. It also had an expiration date.

"Sec. 3. Until the 4th day of July, in the year 1870, all persons who voluntarily adhered to the late insurrection, giving it aid and comfort, shall be excluded from the right to vote for Representatives in Congress and for electors for President and Vice President of the United States," the original, House-passed version read, according to congressional records of the era.

The Senate spent several days debating the House-passed amendment in the spring of 1866. While the birthright citizenship provisions in Section 1 earned a lot of time in debate, Section 3 was also the subject of an intense back-and-forth on the floor. The transcripts can be read in the Congressional Globe, a forerunner to the Congressional Record.

Sen. Jacob Howard of Michigan, who led the Republicans in debate, insisted that it wouldn't be enough to deprive the former confederates of their right to vote in federal elections -- he wanted them banished from government service altogether.

"I should prefer a clause prohibiting all persons who have participated in the rebellion, and who were over twenty-five years of age at the breaking out of the rebellion, from all participation in offices, either Federal or State, throughout the United States," Howard said on the Senate floor on May 23, 1866. "I think such a provision would be a benefit to the nation."

After about a week of discussions with colleagues, Howard offered the Sec. 3 language that was ultimately ratified. Howard's revision removed specific references to "the" rebellion and added an important qualifier: those who were to be excluded from government service would have to have violated prior oaths to defend the constitution by having "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against [it] or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."

Senators rejected various attempts to re-insert the word "voluntarily," or to restrict the exclusion to those who violated their oaths during the time they were still serving in office.

There was a great deal of concern voiced in debate that Howard's exclusion clause might leave the South ungovernable, with so many confederates poised to be disqualified from serving, even in state posts. Opponents expressed fear that the provision might alienate Union-loyal supporters in state legislatures. Nevertheless, the version Howard introduced made it through the entire ratification process and became effective on July 9, 1868.

In 2024, the originalists on the Supreme Court will likely seek to determine whether the ratifiers could have had it in mind 158 years ago that Sec. 3 might not only be applied to the "late insurrection," as the House-passed version originally had it, but also to any other rebellion that might later take place.

But originalists might take note of what Sen. Peter Van Winkle of West Virginia said as he sought to have the threshold for congressional amnesty in Howard's version lowered to a simple majority, rather than two-thirds.

"This is to go into our Constitution and to stand to govern future insurrection as well as the present; and I should like to have that point definitely understood," Van Winkle said at the time.

It's also worth noting that there was just a single reference in the Senate debate to the fact that the president and vice president were not explicitly mentioned in Howard's draft as "officer(s) of the United States," the way members of Congress and state officials had been itemized in the text. Would the disqualification clause of the amendment not cover the top posts in the executive branch?

"Why did you omit to exclude them?" asked Maryland Democratic Sen. Reverdy Johnson.

Maine's Lot Morrill jumped in to clarify.

"Let me call the Senator's attention to the words 'or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States,'" Morrill said, ending the discussion on that point.

Van Winkle and Morrill have spelled it out. The US Supreme Court won't be able to ignore these remarks, and those who consider themselves "originalists" can't ignore the later amendment to the constitution.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 12:04 PM

>
"Let me call the Senator's attention to the words 'or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States,'" Morrill said, ending the discussion on that point.

That reply is distressingly cavalier, possibly because Morrill thought the point to obvious to discuss.

But had he said, specifically, "Those words clearly apply as well to the highest offices in the land," that could have settled it. I'm surprised none of his colleagues required the wording of the Amendment to nail that down.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 24 - 04:25 PM

The odds of the Supreme Court taking the case is still about 50-50 in my guess. There are strong arguments on each side.

Several State Capitols were evacuated today with more BOMB THREATS.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 06:39 AM

The campaign promise from Trump that he would imprison immigrants and citizens alike as enemies of the people and himself in camps has a lot of support from ALEC which is a corporate political organisation that writes laws for Republicans like Stand your Ground and 1078 and runs the private prisons of the USA.
Here are a few of their corporate owned prisons and sub contractors for supplies:

U.S. FOR-PROFIT PRIVATIZED CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
January 2017 – Not a full listing
Facility Operations
CoreCivic (Corrections Corp. of America)
The GEO Group
Management & Training Corp.
Community Education Centers
LaSalle Corrections
Emerald Companies
Medical / Mental Health Care
Corizon Health (Beecken Petty O'Keefe & Co.)
Centurion (Centene)
NaphCare, Inc.
Correct Care Solutions
Wexford Health Sources
Armor Corr. Health Services
Advanced Correctional Healthcare
Correctional Medical Care
Southern Health Partners
MHM (mental health)
Cal. Forensic Medical Group (Correctional
Medical Group Companies; H.I.G. Capital)
Southwest Correctional Medical Group
CFG Health Systems
PrimeCare Medical, Inc.
CorrectHealth, LLC
Pharmaceutical Services
PharmaCorr (Corizon)
Diamond Pharmacy Services
Maxor Correctional Pharmacy Services
Correct Rx
Transportation Services
TransCor (CCA)
PTS of America
U.S. Prisoner Transport Services
Black Talon Enterprises
GEO Transport (GEO Group)
In-Custody Transportation

Package/Commissary Services
Access SecurePak (Keefe)
Union Supply Group
Jack L. Marcus
Access
ABL Management
Bob Barker Company
ICS Jail Supplies
Food Services
Aramark
Canteen Corr. Services
Trinity Services Group (H.I.G. Capital)
ABL Management, Inc.
Food Services of America (Services Group of
America)
Phone/Video Visit/Email Services
Global Tel*Link (American Securities)
Securus Technologies (ABRY Partners)
CenturyLink
PayTel
Telmate
NCIC
Consolidated Telecom
ICSolutions (Keefe / H.I.G. Capital)
Legacy Inmate Communications
IWEBVisit, LLC
JPay (Securus)
HomeWAV
Turnkey Corrections
JailATM
Primarily Juvenile Facilities
G4S Youth Services (U.S. operations)
Youth Services International
Abraxas Youth & Family Services (GEO)
Cornerstone Programs
Mid-Atlantic Youth Services Corp.

Money Transfer Services
JPay (Securus)
Western Union
Access Corrections (Keefe)
Tech Friends, Inc.
Halfway Houses/Community Corrections
Community Education Centers
Hope Village (DC)
Correctional Alternatives, Inc. (CCA)
Avalon Correctional Services (CCA)
ComCor, Inc.
Correctional Management (CCA)
GEO Care (GEO Group)
Release Debit Cards
JPay (Securus)
NUMI Financial/Futura
JP Morgan Chase Bank
Release Pay/Rapid Financial Solutions
EZ Exit/Continental Prison Systems
Turnkey Corrections
Global Tel*Link
Keefe Commissary
Skylight Financial
Electronic Monitoring
BI, Inc. (GEO)
3M Electronic Monitoring, Inc.
ISECUREtrac Corp.
Satellite Tracking of People (Securus)
Offender Management Services
Probation Services
Sentinel Offender Services
Judicial Corr. Services (Correct Care Solutions)
Georgia Probation Services
CSRA Probation Services, Inc.

Compiled by Prison Legal News (www.prisonlegalnews.org)

Facility Design and Build
Sierra Companies
Hale-Mills Construction
Turner Construction (Hochtief)
Kimme & Associates, Inc.
Primarily Immigration Detention
Ahtna Corporation
Akai Security
Asset Protection and Security Services
Immigration Centers of America
Valley Metro Barbosa Group

Compiled by Prison Legal News (www.prisonlegalnews.org)


I believe this conglomerate has the ability for concentration and ghetto prison camps. An investigative journalist or our own Stilly could look into the contributions to a Trump campaign from this ALECprivate prison group.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 11:04 AM

Really interesting interview by Judy Woodruff of PBS about the citizen investigators who are helping the FBI track down and charge the rioters from January 6.

The woman interviewed is seen only from the back and her name has been changed. If Trump were to get into office these people's heads would be on pikes leading into town. And there are a lot of people in the FBI who are resisting these investigations. Trump supporters and mid-level hires, no doubt, who haven't left or been fired for malfeasance.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 12:41 PM

Interesting piece in The Guardian

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 12:52 PM

The R. House is still hanging together rather than hang separately.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 12:57 PM

Donald Trump's businesses received millions in payments from foreign governments while he was in office, report finds

"Key points:

"A report details $11.6 million in foreign payments from 20 countries was paid to Trump businesses
   
"The payments in the report are likely a fraction of foreign payments made to Trump, the report said

"China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Malaysia were among the countries"

....

"The report discussed four properties, less than 1 per cent of the 558 corporate entities Mr Trump owned either directly or indirectly as president.

"Mr Trump's accounting firm did not provide documents regarding at least 80 per cent of Mr Trump's business entities, congressional investigators said.

"'These countries spent — often lavishly — on apartments and hotel stays at Donald Trump's properties — personally enriching president Trump while he made foreign policy decisions connected to their policy agendas with far-reaching ramifications for the United States,' the report said.

"The countries included China, Saudi Arabia, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Malaysia and more."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 01:09 PM

Trump made over 500 million from China alone.

Donald is fairly certain breaking Constitutional law will go unanswered with his personally selected Supreme Court.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Jan 24 - 01:15 PM

Yeah, but Eric says they donated the profits to the U.S. Treasury. For America!

Checkmate again, libs!

[Rated R for strong irony, sarcasm, bad attitude.]


https://www.newsweek.com/eric-trump-reacts-report-that-donald-trump-got-millions-china-1857928

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 24 - 08:29 AM

Entre nous there is no trace of Russian money going to Trump which is hard to believe.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Jan 24 - 01:48 PM

They say God made Trump to save America:

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/111703421569603715

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jan 24 - 02:53 PM

Let's please stop with the long editorials and philosophy - and just share news. Less bickering results that way (in most threads, actually.)

The Supremes have agreed to hear an appeal about the Colorado decision to keep Trump off the ballot. So many other things they could get done at the same time. And meanwhile, Trump is warning of trouble ahead (the copy is pasted here in case anyone north of the border wanted to know about this):
Trump warns of ‘big trouble’ as Supreme Court agrees to hear Colorado ballot case.

Former President Trump warned Friday that there will be “big trouble” if the Supreme Court does not rule in his favor on his eligibility for the 2024 presidential ballot.

The Supreme Court is set to hear the Colorado case after the state’s Supreme Court determined last month that Trump should not be on the primary ballot due to his involvement in the Jan. 6 insurrection.

“I just hope we get fair treatment,” Trump said at an Iowa rally Friday. “Because if we don’t, our country’s in big, big trouble. Does everybody understand what I’m saying?”

Trump also complained of Democrats casting doubt on the court because Trump appointed three of its justices, claiming that they are attempting to put undue political pressure on the court’s decisions.

“They’re saying, ‘Oh, Trump owns the Supreme Court, he owns it. He owns it. If they make a decision for him, it will be terrible. It’ll ruin their reputations,” he said. “‘He owns the Supreme Court. He put on three judges. He owns the Supreme Court. If they rule in his favor, it will be horrible for them. And we’ll protest at their houses.’”

“That puts pressure on people to do the wrong thing. What they’re doing is no different than Bobby Knight,” he continued, referring to the legendary college basketball coach famous for raucous arguments with referees.

The Colorado case argues that Trump’s actions surrounding the Jan. 6 Capitol riots fall under the 14th Amendment’s “insurrection clause,” which disqualifies those who have engaged or assisted in insurrection against the country from holding office.

Any Supreme Court decision will likely also put to bed the issue in other states. Trump’s ballot qualifications have been challenged in over a dozen states, and he was removed from the ballot in Maine on the same argument.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 24 - 07:21 PM

The cover of the New Yorker magazine is opinion and philosophy.

A good cartoon shows MAGA fanatics yelling WE can't trust the voters on 1-6 and today shouting LET the voters decide!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 08:57 AM

In GA lawyers for Trump are arguing that Donald had no idea that overturning an election was illegal. Even I know ignorance of the law is no defense. Are these dollar-store lawyers?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 10:19 AM

Regardless of that, they're coming up with anything they can think of to delay the trials and whip up public sympathy for their client.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jan 24 - 11:41 AM

That cover of The New Yorker is perfect. Buy it to add to your collection of Trump covers.

He was in court this morning but apparently there wasn't an opportunity to grandstand on the way in or out. I listened to part of the hearing, it would have been better if it was televised and not just the sound, but we'll take what we can get.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 24 - 04:50 PM

Trump can’t speak during closing arguments in NY civil fraud trial, judge says

In a letter to attorneys for Trump and New York Attorney General Letitia James just after noon Wednesday, Engoron said that Trump hasn’t agreed to conditions he set should the former president wish to give a statement.

“Not having heard from you by the third extended deadline (noon today), I assume that Mr. Trump will not agree to the reasonable, lawful limits I have imposed as a precondition to giving a closing statement above and beyond those given by his attorneys, and that, therefore, he will not be speaking in court tomorrow,” Engoron wrote.

The judge is shutting down the platform that Trump wants to use to continue to blame Biden, to claim the president is prosecuting him.

"“Allowing Mr. Trump to present closing argument will invite more speeches that will ‘unduly disrupt’ the proceedings,” Andrew Amer wrote in an email last Thursday."

Engoron offered Trump the opportunity to speak in his own defense closing argument but said the former president must agree to preset conditions that would limit what he can and cannot say. He would not be allowed to campaign, the judge said.

Engoron also said if Trump violated the gag order, he’d fine him and remove him from court.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 24 - 06:41 PM

Stilly, when Hitler was allowed to speak at his insurrection trial it was a grand mistake. If only a judge Engoran had been on the bench.

Lighter it is perfectly true some arguments are meant to delay but when throwing their dirty underwear against the wall they should have the ability to stick. Trump's arguments are surprisingly 'unstickworthy'. Trump's lawyers are playing for Trump's approval and not a passionate defense. Their heart is not into it which is a good thing.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 24 - 10:23 PM

The pattern of Trump's breathing tonight in his 'town hall' resembled the breathing of James Gandolfini before he had his heart attack. The specific type of breathing shows excessive stress on the heart with loud nasal inhalations. This is not an acute condition but is a warning sign. I only mention this because I was correct about Reagan's dementia 3 years before the famous letter announcing his condition. On TV I said I saw evidence of the President's symptoms of organic brain disease while the rest of the panel of psychologists and 'experts' were aghast and flabbergasted. I was not asked back and NO ONE MENTIONED 3 YEARS LATER that I had been correct. C'est la vie.


btw Chris Christie spoke eloquently, confessionally and directly on C-Span and later on TV tonight.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 24 - 05:58 AM

He didn't exactly help one of Trump's opponents though, did he? Ah, the curse of the microphone...

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 03:32 AM

Still think we are safe after last night in Iowa? :-(

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 03:54 AM

Apparently, the result will please the Biden camp, according to this piece on BBC News this morning.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 03:51 PM

The percentage of people who go out to participate in the Iowa caucuses is minute compared to the registered voters of the state. Let them think he won - but make sure everyone gets out to vote in November. Polls, caucuses, even primaries are barely useful to extrapolate from. Only the election itself matters.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 04:11 PM

I genuinely hope you are right Stilly but, from here, it looks grim :-(

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 04:37 PM

The numbers are meaningless. But media companies want eyeballs and advertisers and they go with the Trump nonsense because they get the ratings. They didn't learn their lesson in 2016, but so many people know what he is up to now that even though his supporters are noisy and brash and out there for the Iowa event, it really doesn't add up to anything.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 04:25 PM

Everyone knows extreme cold makes caucuses shrink. :^/

Jean Carroll is still getting death threats as Trump continues his misogynist denials.

Entire police and FBI departments treat sexual abuse and rape cases as he said she said scenarios. It would help if only female detectives conducted investigations.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jan 24 - 05:16 PM

Ivanka Trump Former Employee Ends Up in Father's Jury Pool

"A woman says she worked for Ivanka Trump's company doing communications work in 2017/18 and also says it won't impact her ability to be fair to both sides," Crane-Newman posted to X, formerly Twitter.

The prospective juror's identity, nor her position for Ivanka Trump, has not been made public. It is unclear if she was one of the nine jurors selected.

Former federal prosecutor Neama Rahmani told Newsweek that the potential juror's former employment under Ivanka Trump would not be enough to have her removed from the case.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 03:39 AM

The Supreme Court could have a way out of their predicament. If they rule that the presidency is covered by the 14th amendment but Trump has not yet been found guilty of insurrection in a court of law, then the onus moves to the court trying him for his part in Jan 6.

But what do I know!?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 07:48 AM

My position has become conservative! I prefer an original Constitutional Government over a New Government with rampant political violence and dictatorial decree with a license to kill political opponents.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 08:07 AM

Trump hasn't been charged with "insurrection."

But the 14th Amendment doesn't say who determines whether he did so engage. The states? Congress? The Supreme Court? It's all very murky.

He was charged with inciting an insurrection in his second impeachment but was acquitted by the Senate. Impeachment is a political, not a judicial, procedure. He could still be charged criminally - and at the time of his acquittal, McConnell, Graham, McCarthy, and others insisted that he should be. What changed their minds and turned them back into ardent supporters is unclear.

The current charges against Trump in the 1/6 case are:

Conspiracy to defraud the government [with false electors]

Conspiracy against the right to vote [by attempting with others to overturn the legitimate result of an election]

Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding [by exhorting the crowd (again with others) to march to the Capitol and "fight like hell"]

Obstruction of an official proceeding [by doing nothing to call off the rioters once they were in the building]

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 08:19 AM

What you call murky I call cut and dried.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 08:30 AM

What Lighter calls ‘murky’, and Don calls ‘cut and dried’, I call ‘confused and confusing’.

Although nothing to do with UK, it’s a fact that the election of a US President has a huge effect on us in the UK, and on the rest of the world. All the reporting I see here in the U.K. seems to suggest that none of these cases will come to fruition before the Election, that Trump will be the Republican candidate again, and he will subsequently become 47.

I fear for the US and I fear for the world.

Please, Dog, let me be wrong…

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 08:58 AM

Trump and his attorneys are using every strategem in the book to delay these trials.

It seems quite unlikely to me that any but the current civil cases will be decided before the election.

But it may not matter. Trump's followers are certain that all these cases are "election interference" and that any convictions will be overturned by the Supreme Court. As I've mentioned, such appeals can take several years.

If Trump is re-elected, he will suspend all the investigations and trials.

His unique claim - on no legal basis whatever - that he has and deserves "absolute immunity" may eventually erode some of his popularity. It's a long way to November.

Right now, though, he's neck and neck with Biden - and more popular as a public figure.

Makes you think.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 10:01 AM

This is one reason why people are still talking about expanding the court (to dilute the Trump effect) and also putting as much pressure on Clarence Thomas to 1) resign in disgrace or at least 2) recuse himself because his wife was involved in the Jan. 6 stuff.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 01:46 PM

The Supreme Court was supposed to be apolitical and just decide on the interpretation of the Constitution and settle lower court disputes.
BUT things have changed along with the growth of corruption.

IF the USA only relied on the popular vote, Democrats would have won the last 7 presidential elections and the Republicans only one.

Republicans have relied on becoming loophole masters and legislating litigation to maximize Republican votes by minimizing Democrat votes via voter suppression.

How would I try to make the system more fair for people who are not billionaires?

I would nationalize money that is laundered in the USA and do a Robin Hood for the 'poor'. The biggest laundry of dirty money is in the USA. Russia launders its money in Cyprus. The king of laundered money is in the State of Deleware and a few northern western States via shell companies. The Panama Papers were the blueprint for this hidden money scheme from the records of a law firm that enabled the system.

I'm sure I wouldn't last long after I removed the billionaire's stash.
I might even pay off most of the national debt with the left over cash if I could elude hired assasines. This plan has its risks. Besides billionaires might then look to China to launder their cash. They already do with Chinese super lockdown warehouses for billionaire hard goods.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 02:24 PM

In the State of Georgia cases against Trump and his allies, it seems DA Fani Willis, a single woman, was dating a separated man who is divorcing his wife. She hired him (at some point - before or after the relationship began?) and it seems his separated wife has decided to get even and is working with Trump attorneys to smear Willis.

Not sure if this is a report or an opinion piece, but here are some details to sort through: Fani Willis Just Made a Critical Mistake, Legal Analyst Warns

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 02:43 PM

The latest report is that Trump made a speech and sounded more incoherent than usual.

Kind of reminds me of "covfefe." Remember that one?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 24 - 05:19 PM

He can still recall five items in order...with hesitation.

There is still suspense about whether The Donald is headed for the White House or the Big House. Better minds than mine believe the Supream Court will NOT take up the Colorado ballot case.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jan 24 - 10:42 AM

From yesterday's Washington Post:

A ‘whale’ of a tale: Trump continues to distort cognitive test he took
The Montreal Cognitive Assessment, a test aimed at detecting dementia or cognitive decline, never included the combination of animals Trump identified this week

I particularly like the quote

Experts also note that the assessment is not an I.Q. or intelligence test, though Trump has often talked about it as if it was.

“It’s a very, very low bar for somebody who carries the nuclear launch codes in their pocket to pass and certainly nothing to brag about,” said Jonathan Reiner, a cardiologist and professor of medicine and surgery at the George Washington School of Medicine & Health Sciences.

Addressing the crowd of supporters Wednesday night in Portsmouth, Trump continued with his riff on the test, seeming to wholly invent another hypothetical question.

The irony about the whole age debate is that Biden is a good weight, eats a healthy diet, and has all of his marbles. The stammer occasionally rears it's head to make some of his speech halting, but he's the one people worry about? They can't see past the mess of Trump's pancake makeup and hair gel.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Jan 24 - 11:00 AM

Apropos of cognitive functioning:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-aced-cognitive-test-incorrectly-051229367.html

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 24 - 08:22 AM

My opinion is that while Trump is exceedingly stupid he knows that a lie does not have to be good or believable but merely denounces someone else.
The more he is castigated for his lies, the more grievance points he believes he has. It's the old bad press is good press by staying in the news.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 24 - 08:32 AM

A good cognitive test would be to have Nikki, Joe, and Donald as contestants on Jeopardy.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 24 - 03:43 PM

OK I understand that Christians chose a magic Jew as their Messiah but why did they choose a narcissistic atheist for their second coming?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 21 Jan 24 - 05:12 PM

Ron DeSantis withdraws from Republican presidential race, endorses Trump

"Ron DeSantis announced his withdrawal from the race on social media

"He finished a distant second behind former president Donald Trump in last week's Iowa caucuses

"Nikki Haley is now the last Republican in the contest with a shot of denying Mr Trump the nomination"

The article also analyses DeSantis' campaign issues and failures.


Donuel said, "OK I understand that Christians chose a magic Jew as their Messiah but why did they choose a narcissistic atheist for their second coming?" but I think you are missing the obvious.

In my opinion, he's not the Second Coming, he is the Anti-Christ. It fits with his narcissistic personality and his power plays and his manipulation of facts into lies. And he didn't raise people from the dead, he sent a huge number to their deaths by COVID.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 24 - 09:12 AM

After one whole term of being lazy
Like an old man he's half asleep
Now it seems that he's half crazy
but is mean as a lieing creep
Trump is not a new sensation
He's done pretty well I think
But this half-ton imitation
is circling down the sink

He's wild again, beguiled again
A simpering, whimpering child again
Bewitched, bothered, and bewildered is he
He's alot like villain John Wilkes Booth
When he tweets he decrees what our eyes should see
Bewitched, he's allergic to the truth

Lost the vote, but so what of it
He is old I agree
He can laugh, and we love it
Although the laugh's on me
Pastors sing to him, folks bring to him
Donations for lawyers that cling to him

Bewitched, bothered, and bewildered is he
He's a fool and don't I know it
But a fool can have his charms
He's confused and he really shows it
Revenge will be his harm
He's the same old sad sensation
Lately I've not slept a wink
Since this half-ton imitation
Washed rights down the sink

He's sinned a lot; I mean a lot
He's like a repeat craven felon
Bewitched, bothered, and bewildered is he
The fringe loves him, but I CRINGE from him
Some worship the red tie that clings to him
Bewitched, bothered, and bewildered is he

When he talks, he is seeking
Hatred to get off his chest
with his word salad speaking, he's at his very best
Vexed again, perplexed again
As God, he wants us obcessed again
Bewitched, bothered, and bewildered is he

Wise at last, my eyes at last
Are cutting him down to size at last
Bewitched, bothered, and bewildered no more
Burned a lot, we've learned a lot
And now he thinks he beat Barak,
Bewitched, bothered, and bewildered no more

For all we know he is dyspeptic
Sanity is a real no go
I hope the election's antiseptic
I hope he's locked in Mar Lago
Donald Trump, finis, your chance, finis
Those ants that invaded our House, finis
Bewitched, bothered, and bewildered no more

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 24 - 10:49 AM

The Sanctimonious one has withdrawn, leaving Nikki Haley as the last woman standing, except she's a Trump toady who has said she will pardon the bastard if he is convicted, leaving him to roll around golf courses the rest of his life. He belongs in prison, and she can go work in some 9-5 office where she isn't causing any harm.

My first Biden/Harris political purchase should arrive in the mail today. A t-shirt. I don't put bumper stickers on the car, I don't want it keyed, but I can pick and choose where to wear the shirt. :)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Jan 24 - 05:18 PM

An interesting analysis of Nikki Haley's possible chances and strategies and Trumps' (predictable) anger at not getting a higher result:

Donald Trump's anger in New Hampshire followed a primary win that exposed some weakness

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jan 24 - 05:24 PM

Mother Jones posted on Threads today that if they run headlines about Trump from now on they will appear like this:

Florida Man Facing 91 Criminal Counts Wins New Hampshire Primary
Donald Trump defeats Nikki Haley.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 24 - 05:25 PM

He is going to be your next president. I do hope I am wrong but I can't see any other outcome. I am sorry for you and fear for the rest of the world. :-(

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jan 24 - 05:34 PM

The view from the UK is so pessimistic. And wrong. And you don't listen to us, telling that Trump doesn't have a chance in hell of winning. He's pushing all of the boundaries he can, but in the end, cheaters won't prosper. Ignore the polls, and ignore what Trump himself says (but believe him when he tells you how he would behave).

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 24 - 06:03 PM

Once again I hope that in November you will say "I told you so".

But it's not just the view from the UK. A lot of the world press is fearing the worst and I have relatives in the US who are making tentative arrangements to move in with us while they look for a house here next year!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Jan 24 - 07:54 PM

A Trump voter in NH explained why he'd still support Trump in November even if he's convicted of felonies. Can you guess the answer?

















"Because all the charges are phony and any conviction would eventually be overturned by the Supreme Court."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Jan 24 - 08:53 PM

The Republican primary results simply tell what Republican voters think of the Republican candidates. The democratic vote between the final candidates in November will show what voters want.

It ain't over until the obese orange one whinges in November.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jan 24 - 10:34 PM

We've heard enough of the view from the UK if that's all you have to offer, it doesn't need to be repeated (which is about as annoying as anything can be in this day and age). At a more granular local level here we're all working on it.

Democrats in various local areas where primaries are happening have been asking if they should support Haley to try to keep Trump out of the election, but Trump is the face of the brand and the malignancy that need to be defeated; if the GOP should end up with Haley and were she to be elected we'd have a Trump sycophant who would pardon him of any federal crimes and let him go on his merry way. Best to defeat Trump himself and be done with it.

The civil trial by E. Jean Carroll about defamation should resume tomorrow after a COVID scare earlier in the week. It is about ready to wrap up.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Jan 24 - 11:05 PM

From my home in Oz, and with no real stake in the outcome except in relation to world politics, I'm going with Joe Biden's statement: let the voters decide.

I'm also inclined to think that there are possibly enough voters who are keeping their cards close to their chests with regards to Trump, and probably waiting to see the outcomes of the various legal trials he will have to get through. I think that those voters are more likely to judge him according to the outcomes of his legal battles and I really think there could be enough right-thinking people who would reject him as a president if he loses some or all of those battles.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 24 - 05:21 AM

DAVOS is famous for its wrong predictions. I agree with Stilly that Europe is wrong overall about another Trump Presidency.

Also, election interference techniques are complicated with AI voice fraud techniques already.

An unlikely Trump opponent is returning. JOHN STEWART !

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 24 - 06:32 AM

Trump Wants:
The economy to crash (in his own words)
The border to remain open during Biden's term
Abortion ban to be nationwide
to be reelected
Ukraine to be defeated
Affordable Healthcare banned


These things are not what my neighbors want.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 24 - 11:37 AM

Much of the recent conflicting opinion squabble has been deleted; no one needs to resume the caustic tone that was featured a while back. This thread is mainly about Trump's trials and his campaign. Let's keep it that way.

Today the E. Jean Carroll trial resumes, with Carroll again set to testify. From the CNN update link this morning:

Lawyers for E. Jean Carroll have rested her case against Donald Trump in the civil trial to determine how much in damages, if any, he will have to pay the former magazine columnist for his 2019 defamatory statements following her sex assault allegations.

The plaintiffs called three witnesses including Carroll who testified last week while Donald Trump sat at the defense table making audible comments for which he was admonished by the judge.

Carroll is seeking at least $10 million in damages for the 2019 defamatory statements.

In a separate trial last year, a jury found Trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation similar statements he made in 2022. The jury awarded Carroll $5 million in damages.

Meanwhile, Trump's attorney in the trail, Alina Habba, begged off of court this week because she felt sick, resulting in a trial postponement, only to turn up at a New Hampshire political event. A reporter who busted her for the stunt got kicked out of the NH event.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 24 - 11:39 AM

I am aghast at Trumpian politics and glad that it is guaranteed that he will not be elected. Come November I shall be the amongst the first to congratulate those who made that promise:-)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 24 - 12:08 PM

Bad news for Trump - a huge thorn in his side is returning to The Daily Show on the Comedy Central network for the rest of the campaign year. As mentioned above, Jon Stewart to return to ‘The Daily Show’ as a host and executive producer

“In our age of staggering hypocrisy and performative politics,” McCarthy added, “Jon is the perfect person to puncture the empty rhetoric and provide much-needed clarity with his brilliant wit.”

Stewart gained acclaim hosting “The Daily Show” for his sharp humor which was deployed to deliver stinging — and hilarious — monologues often aimed at exposing the hypocrisy of politicians.

With the 2024 election featuring Joe Biden and Donald Trump, Stewart is likely to have no shortage of material to work with. Stewart has been a strong critic of Trump and will undoubtedly use the platform to needle the former president.

Stewart’s return to the venerable show is sure to generate significant excitement and provide a much-needed jolt of buzz to boost the show, which has struggled to find its footing in recent times.

"Needle" is putting it mildly. Stewart's jabs connect when he targets Trump, and Trump hates it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 24 - 12:13 PM

91 INDICTMENTS are but a small sliver of the subject of Trumpian cult grievance-chaos politics and racist fascism.
To assume a simple overview of these issues are irrelevant and should be expunged is myopic in my opinion, especially after it is decreed that no new Trump threads are allowed.

To nearly quote Ben Franklin, for now, we have a Republic if we can keep it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 24 - 12:29 PM

Sorry, I misspelled Jon Stewart. John Stewart was born in Virginia to Baptists of mixed European and African descent in 1786.
Jon Stewart is born and bred in NYC.

Successfully mocking dictators is an age-old valuable strategy in overcoming such villains. Jon does this very well.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 25 Jan 24 - 03:02 PM

> The view from the UK is so pessimistic.

It reminds us right-pondians too much of some more-painful-than-somewhat episodes of our own recent history, which we neglected to do enough about till it was far too late. It doesn't help that our papers thrive on using scary headlines to increase their sales.

> And wrong.

I really, really hope so. All we can do from this distance is worst-case planning for potential fallout .... and that last word was chosen carefully: "Si vis pacem, para bellum", an' all that.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 25 Jan 24 - 03:50 PM

Well said, MaJoC.

I was thinking of a similar quote, "hope for the best but prepare for the worst".

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Jan 24 - 04:24 PM

Donuel, those are not the things my neighbors want either.

Except for "re-elected."

What they want is Trump. Many "dislike him personally," but "he did a lot of good things for this country," and they will vote for him enthusiastically in November.

Many don't "want" so much as "fear."

What they fear, in no particular order, includes:

Government seizure of firearms.

The government sending jobs to China and Mexico   

Illegal immigrants stealing jobs, smuggling drugs, killing Americans, voting Democrat, and getting free health care and welfare benefits while they slowly become the majority in what's left of the country.

Unelected "activist" judges who twist the law because they were appointed by Clinton, Obama, or Biden.

"Democrat wars" and support for Ukraine, which has nothing to do with us.

Biden and his "crime family" "selling us out" to China for millions in bribes.

Universities that teach atheism, lies, and Marxism.

The removal of statues of American heroes and the renaming of military bases in the South named for Confederate officers, who were just as patriotic as Union officers.

Kamala Harris becoming President.

Hunter Biden getting away with crime because he's a Biden.

Powerful elites who despise ordinary Americans.

Blue states with sanctuary cities and "blue juries."

Persecution of Christians.

The mainstream media that lie about conservatives and won't report the truth.

Federal meddling in our lives.

Regulatory agencies.

Time- and money-wasting sensitivity training.

Islamic terrorists coming from Mexico.

Muslims.

Immigrant kids who speak "strange languages" that "nobody knows" packing our schools and making teaching impossible.

Government and private censorship of MAGA speech.

Legalized abortion.

George Soros.

Laws and lawsuits that hamstring police.

The "Deep State."

The "administrative state."

School shootings that Democrats won't prevent by arming teachers.

Government health care that tells people what doctor they can see and what treatment they can get, and that takes taxpayer cash to treat and give free, overpriced drugs to alcoholics, dope addicts, and other freeloaders.

Dangerous vaccines that don't work anyway.

Doctors who shill for the crooked vaccine manufacturers.

A fascistic government "ordering" people to wear useless, harmful masks in a pandemic.

Climate-change "loons" who want to destroy business and industry and make everyone buy electric stoves and vehicles they don't want and can't afford.

A "weaponized" Justice Department "coming after" Americans for speaking out against the Biden "regime."

The highest crime rates in American history.

The highest taxes in American history.

The worst inflation in American history.

The collapsing American economy.

The "weak," "bumbling," "senile" "tyrant" "Crooked Joe" and his shadowy "handlers" who tell him what to do.

The Socialist "Squad."

Globalists.

Transsexuals.

Gay marriage and the destruction of the family.

Influential fools who teach that America is a Democrat democracy when it's "really" a Republican republic.

LGBTQ teachers "grooming" our kids.

Kids being taught they can choose their own gender.

Teachers telling white kids they and their families are racists responsible for slavery.

Teachers telling black kids they'll always be victims because America is fundamentally racist.

The "woke mob."

"Cancel culture."

The "weakness" and "wokeness" of our military.

Foreign countries "laughing at us" for our stupidity and weakness.

Membership in NATO, which costs us billions and will get us into war.

Biden's high gas prices.

Non-MAGA politicians, who are mostly crooked and un-American.

Elections carefully rigged against conservatives.

Hollywood pushing immorality on our kids.

The Big Lie that Biden won fair and square.

Judges who dismiss the proof that Biden cheated.

A rogue FBI and CIA spying on, framing, and imprisoning American patriots.

Liberal news that smears Trump by taking remarks "out of context" and/or not acknowledging he was "just being sarcastic."

Critical race theory.

BLM mobs burning cities like Portland while liberal mayors look the other way.

The replacement of truthful American history with Marxist Liberal lies and distortions.

The railroading by corrupt DAs and judges, under Biden's orders, of America's "true leader," Donald Trump.


Quite a list. Quite a collective nightmare. Everything in quotes is an actual quote. I have heard or read of every one of these fears from actual Trump supporters.

For MAGA voters these are, in varying degrees, the "real issues."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 24 - 04:56 PM

As for real issues, they have to be real to be real. Belief on the other hand trumps reason and fact. Its how religion works too.
For the most part your list is a collection of post-hypnotic suggestions that only serve Trump and his cronies.

As for his MAGA cronies, Trump is turning on many of them with extreme passion. Any dissent and he responds with threats and vows to blacklist the families, donors and friends of the RHINOS. This vindictive paranoid behavior is typical of Hitler, Stalin, and other dictators who go so far as to kill their own 'fiends', I mean friends.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 24 - 11:53 AM

But none of this matters because he cannot possibly be re-elected.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Jan 24 - 01:17 PM

Michael Tomasky in The New Republic. I think he's right on, at least where I live:

"Support for Democrats has shriveled in rural America to near nonexistence, such that it is now next to impossible to imagine Democrats being elected to public office at nearly any level in about two-thirds of the country.... Right-wing media took over in these places and convinced people who live in them that liberals are all God-hating superwoke snowflakes who are nevertheless also capable of destroying civilization.... If someone had formed a liberal Sinclair [a popular right-wing network] 20 years ago to gain reach into rural and small-town America, that story would be very different today."

Las Vegas odds-makers now pick Trump to win November:

More on MAGA:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-trumps-followers-still-love-103005015.html

The godfather of all this, if there was only one, was radio commentator Rush Limbaugh, who started the radical-populist ball rolling around 1990 and was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by DJT thirty years later.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jan 24 - 02:16 PM

The jury in the E. Jean Carroll case have been charged with deciding the penalty Trump must pay.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Jan 24 - 02:52 PM

The Vegas odds link:


https://www.vegasinsider.com/odds/us-presidential-election/

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Jan 24 - 05:37 PM

If you haven't heard, an hour ago the jury hit Trump for $83 million.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 26 Jan 24 - 05:50 PM

Good news, Lighter!! But I'm sure it's just small change for Trump. And I am also sure he will appeal the decision.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 Jan 24 - 06:47 PM

> I'm sure it's just small change for Trump

I've just been told [Herself, pri comm] that the jury set the penalty .... and methinks they'll have gone by his *reported* level of wealth. Words like "hoist" and "petard" come to mind. How he gets the monies is left as an exercise for the cynic.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jan 24 - 07:18 PM

By the time he pays off Carroll and the 350 million or so the State of New York attorney general is asking for (a summary judgment has already found him guilty of inflating those values - the judge needs to name the penalty) pundits figure Trump is going to have to start selling properties to pay the bills.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 24 - 09:53 PM

It has already changed his behavior. He did not continue to defame Jean tonight. While an appeal may cut the amount we seem to be speaking his language now.

Navarro and Steve Bannon both got 4 months in jail. Fox News Corp is looking at a 2.7 billion dollar lawsuit from Smartmatic voting machines.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 26 Jan 24 - 10:02 PM

Is there any information available on whether the numbers of people attending his rallies and events are significantly less than in his 2016 campaign? I'm thinking that that might be an indication of whether he is losing support from the people who would have voted for him back then.

I'm wondering whether there is a site which has comparative statistics.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Jan 24 - 08:05 AM

He received eleven million more votes in 2020 than in 2016.

2016: 63 million.

2020: 74 million.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Jan 24 - 10:33 AM

Trump follower:

"I don't care how much they gave her. It didn't happen. If it happened, why didn't she scream? Why did she wait thirty years to bring charges? Nobody saw anything. And these judges won't let him defend himself in court.

"Plus it was a New York jury. They hate Trump in New York."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jan 24 - 12:58 PM

Thanks Lighter for the info on votes in 2020 compared with 2016. It will be interesting to compare with this year's votes.

I'm wondering whether his supporter numbers are less since his legal troubles began and I'm thinking the attendance numbers at his rallies and events might be an indication.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jan 24 - 09:06 AM

Make America Wait Again...

to address
Climate change,
Immigration reform,
Racial harmony,
Gun reform,
Responsible journalism,
Federalism,
Electoral College (somehow worse than real college)
A political Supreme Court
Free Elections


That is if Trump wins.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jan 24 - 12:43 PM

I think E. Jean Carroll will be interviewed again on the Rachel Maddow Show on Monday (Jan. 29 on MSNBC). She is 80 and is going to have to wait through appeals and foot dragging, but Trump has to already cough up the money so it is for now in limbo in the court coffers. She says she has to think about what to do with it (foundation-wise, one assumes), but for now, she plans to start giving her two dogs premium dog food. This is the woman who Trump insists is dining out on the fame and proceeds of his past attention.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Jan 24 - 01:41 PM

Trump supporter in Las Vegas (CNN):

"Trump is doing God's work for this country, and that's why I'll stay with him to the end."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 28 Jan 24 - 02:35 PM

An interview on Australian TV:

Bernie Sanders says US is facing an inequality crisis and Donald Trump is not the answer

"Bernie Sanders doesn't blame ordinary Americans for succumbing to the appeal of Donald Trump.

"'I want the people of Australia to understand it's not because everybody who votes for Trump is a racist, or a sexist or a homophobe,' US Senator Sanders told 7.30.

"According to Senator Sanders, the leader of the US progressive movement who campaigned twice for nomination for president, much of the response to Mr Trump is driven by economic conditions.

"'Millions of people are hurting, they're suffering,' Senator Sanders said."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jan 24 - 02:46 PM

I thought I had linked this article from the Royal Society before but I cannot find it now. Makes a lot of sense and explains the appeal to so many.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Jan 24 - 03:02 PM

I think Bernie is living in the past.

I don't believe Trump or any of associates has ever said a word about raising wages, strengthening unions, or addressing economic problems other than slapping tariffs on imports. They're not even promising more tax cuts (but wait till the election gets closer).

After more than a decade, Republicans still offer no replacement for Obamacare for the non-wealthy, which they continually promise to revoke.

Low wages and the like undoubtedly contribute to the broad resentment of American society by many working-class GOP supporters, but they rarely mention it, except to assert that immigrants are going to steal their jobs and sponge off their taxes.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 28 Jan 24 - 03:13 PM

Lighter, did you read the whole article? I couldn't decide which bits to quote because it was all relevant.

I think what he said is fairly similar to what you just said.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 28 Jan 24 - 04:56 PM

More from the article I quoted from in the interview with Bernie Sanders:

"'The average American worker today, his or her wages are lower than they were 50 years ago, parents are worried about their kids who might have a lower standard of living than they do,' Senator Sanders said.

"'People are feeling that government does not listen, does not understand their pain. And they are turning to somebody who says: 'Forget all of that. I've got the answer. Don't worry about democracy. I'll take care of it for you.'

"While Senator Sanders doesn't blame ordinary Americans for putting their faith in former president Trump, he says the consequences of a Trump victory would be dire for the entire world.

"'Everything is at stake … If the United States moves in an authoritarian way, it will certainly send a signal to every country on Earth that, that's the future of politics.' Senator Sanders said of Donald Trump.

"'He's a phoney, he's a pathological liar. But I'm afraid his appeal is working.'"

.....

"'I don't want to speculate about the what-ifs, what should have happened, Biden is the candidate and our job is … to make it very clear that Biden has done some good things … I think he's not getting the credit for what he has done.'

"'What we have got to make clear to ordinary Americans is you may not like everything that Biden has done, maybe you think he's too old … but you know what? The alternative is a hell of a lot worse'."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 29 Jan 24 - 04:15 PM

I didn't read the article, Helen. Thanks for posting more of it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jan 24 - 07:00 PM

I HAVE BEEN TOLD GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS SO "Trump IS doing God's work for this country, and that's why I'll stay with him to the end."

EX General Flynn is doing all the church work on that end of the Trump campaign.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jan 24 - 10:20 PM

Rachel Maddow and E. Jean cut Trump down to size this evening. The introduction was excellent - giving an overview of the journalistic career of Elizabeth Jean Carroll. And the revelation that E. Jean made in court - he's not so big and isn't scary when he's cut down to size in court. He doesn't like it when the judge has him under control.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jan 24 - 06:32 PM

Jean looked at Trump, sized him up, and saw he was a big nothing.

The chair of the RNC tried to publicly cancel the primary vote by declaring Trump the winner now that he has 32 of the 1,215 delegate votes required to win. That is like dismissing 69 million voters.
It is such a bad look for the Republican Party that they walked it back. Canceling elections sounded like the easy MAGA thing to do.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jan 24 - 07:04 PM

Most likely a Trump supporter made an anonymous call for SWAT to respond to a shooting of a female at Nikki Halley's house.
Only her elderly parents were home and were greeted by dozens of hair-trigger automatic weapons and fully armored 'troops'.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 31 Jan 24 - 01:27 AM

I'm proposing a new entry in the dictionary: not "temper tantrums" but "temper tanTrumps". What do you think?

I'm sure the tanTrumps will be multiplying over the next few months at least, but probably until the election and its aftermath. We've already seen the post E. Jean Carroll settlement tanTrump. :-D

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jan 24 - 10:23 AM

FUNNY Helen

The Kingdom, the Power and the Glory
American evangelism in the age of extremism by Tim Alberta

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/01/evangelicals-american-politics-tim-alberta-book-excerpt-00129319

The Trump Messiah Project

There is also a Homeschooling branch of evangelicals teaching Holy Trumpism

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Jan 24 - 12:23 PM

Last night on PBS (Public Broadcasting System) the documentary program Frontline took a look at the reason for the cases around Trump. 90 minutes well spent should you choose to watch it (and if it is available in your country. Might want to use a VPN with a US IP if you can't see it from there.)

A Guide to the Criminal Cases Against Donald Trump

As FRONTLINE examines in the new documentary Democracy on Trial, some of those charges against Trump — who is now the front-runner for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination — stem from his election loss in 2020 and his role in widespread efforts to overturn the results.

The former president has pleaded not guilty to the charges against him and is scheduled to stand trial in multiple cases in the coming months. Trump has insisted that the cases against him are politically motivated and his lawyers have filed motions arguing that presidents have absolute immunity from prosecution for actions taken while in office. “Donald Trump is going to be the defendant and the candidate all wrapped into one,” New Yorker journalist Susan Glasser tells FRONTLINE in the documentary. “It’s just unprecedented.”

As the scheduled start dates of the trials approach, and Trump’s team has sought delays, here are key details of the criminal cases pending against the former president.

See the list of cases by following the link at the top.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 01 Feb 24 - 01:27 PM

Another lawsuit has not gone in Trump's favour (I've copied the first half of the article):

Donald Trump lawsuit over allegations of 'perverted sexual acts' in Russia dismissed by UK court

"In short: A judge has thrown out a lawsuit which former US president Donald Trump brought against a former British spy, whose dossier containing allegations of ties between Mr Trump and Russia caused a political storm in 2017.

"The so-called Steele dossier claimed Mr Trump also engaged in "perverted sexual acts" in Russia, which Mr Trump has always denied.

"What's next? A judge ruled there were "no compelling reasons" for Mr Trump's claim to proceed to a trial, and he is yet to comment publicly.

"A judge in London's High Court threw out a lawsuit by former US president Donald Trump on Thursday, which accused a former British spy of making "shocking and scandalous claims" that were false and harmed his reputation.

"Mr Trump, the frontrunner for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination, had sued private investigations firm Orbis Business Intelligence about claims in a dossier written by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele, who co-founded the firm.

"The so-called Steele dossier alleged ties between Mr Trump's campaign and Russia.

"Mr Trump, 77, said in a witness statement made public in October that he brought the case to prove claims in the dossier, published by the BuzzFeed website in 2017, that he engaged in "perverted sexual acts" in Russia, were false.

"The uncorroborated allegations caused a political storm just before Mr Trump's inauguration in January 2017.

"Mr Steele, who once ran the Russia desk for Britain's Secret Intelligence Service, also known as MI6, was paid by Democrats to compile research that included salacious allegations that Russians could potentially use to blackmail Mr Trump."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Feb 24 - 03:07 PM

Since it has been proven in court here in the US that Trump partakes in "perverted sexual acts" he really can't make the case over in the UK or Russia.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 01 Feb 24 - 05:37 PM

Wikipedia:

"On March 24, 2022, Trump filed a RICO lawsuit in the US District Court for the Southern District of Florida against Clinton, Steele, and many others.[543] The case was dismissed on September 8, 2022. The judge wrote that "despite the numerous references to [Steele] in Trump's lawsuit, 'none specifically attribute any false statement about Plaintiff to him'".[544]"

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 01 Feb 24 - 08:19 PM

Thanks Lighter, I knew I had heard of the Steele dossier before. I guess Trump thinks that if a case doesn't work out for him in the U.S. he can try it on again in the U.K.

SRS, I agree. I laughed out loud at this bit:

Trump "...accused a former British spy of making 'shocking and scandalous claims' that were false and harmed his reputation".

Huh??!! What does he think his reputation looks like to everyone? The way to "harm" his reputation would be to polish it up and make him look like a saint ... which he ain't.

Which reminds me, didn't his name get revealed in the documents released about the Jeffrey Epstein case?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Feb 24 - 07:29 AM

Clinton was "named" too, Helen, which only means mentioned as having associated with Epstein.

Neither Clinton nor Trump was accused of wrongdoing.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/01/03/jeffrey-epstein-list-clinton-trump/72086945007/

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Feb 24 - 09:02 AM

Can someone explain how the Fundraising for the presidential campaigns fits in?

The linked article (From Polico, an online news service founded in Washington) seems to indicate that the more money someone has, the more likely they are to be elected :-( I know there is a lot wrong with UK politics but I don't think we have that problem yet! Can you also tell me that the fundraising for Trump cannot go towards his legal bills? It reads as though it does but surely that is fraud. Not that that matters to Trump.

A much more uplifting article from the same magazine (which I can understand) is 30 things about Biden you might have missed. Fire these back at Biden detractors. Not that they will take any nitice but at least it is good ammunition

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 02 Feb 24 - 12:05 PM

Thanks SRS. All I saw was an article which briefly mentioned the documents released and stated that Trump was one of the names listed.

I confess, mea culpa, that as soon as I saw his name on the list I made the assumption that he was likely to have done some of the bad things.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Feb 24 - 07:22 PM

McConnel's lament: the party's over
INTRO.
I always ew you're no good for us.
Learning to lose took guts,
Tore my shirt to stop your bleedin'
But nothin' ever stops your liein
And I'll call you when the party's over
But nothin' is better sometimes
Once we've both said our goodbyes
Let's just let it go
Let me let you go


Verse:
The party's over
It's time to call it a day
They've burst your petty balloon
And taken your cash away
It's time to wind up the masquerade
Just make your mind up the piper must be paid
The party's over
The candles flicker and dim
You golfed and dreamed through the night
It seemed to be right just being the Don
Now you must wake up, all dreams must end
Take off your orange mask, the party's over
It's all over, ass hole
The party's over
It's time to call it a day
Now you must wake up, all dreams must end
Take off your makeup, the party's over
It's all over, ass hole

Subject: BS: USA FOREIGN POLICY
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 04:54 AM

The United States led the ranking of countries with highest military spending in 2022, with 877 billion U.S. dollars dedicated to the military. That constituted nearly 40 percent of the total military spending worldwide that year, which amounted to 2.2 trillion U.S. dollars.30 Nov 2023.
Is there likely to be any difference if Republicans win an elewction instead of Democrats?
Can any USA members know of any specific election promises relating to arms spending

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 10:21 AM

Dick's dog whistle post (was the start of a new thread) has been moved over here because it boils down to a discussion of what crazy things would Trump do if he was elected again. We can see what Biden is attempting (though quiet diplomacy seems to be a concept beyond the pundits at FAUX news). Support of Ukraine, and still try for a two-state solution. Trump doesn't want either of those.

Put briefly: the Democrats are the party that manages to reduce the national debt, though I don't know if Biden has been able to put a dent in what Trump generated in his four years. The intersection of COVID and the war in Ukraine may have made trimming impossible at this point.

What Trump says and what he does are influenced and often exaggerated by the lunatic chorus in the House of Representatives (in particular). They say they want to spend less but then spend all of their time giving tax breaks to the rich and corporations to reduce revenue, following by cuts in essential services due to the revenue drop. Their spending on military things seems to remain the same (though they say they'll cut off Ukraine if Trump is elected. That's the foolish penny wise and pound foolish approach to world stability.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 12:53 PM

Yesterday I watched this TV show for only the second time. As it happens this episode was about spending intentions of Biden compared with Trump, including military spending, and one of the comments was that Trump has made no statements about his spending intentions or his political aims in his campaign speeches.

(Note: I suspect that his only intention in getting re-elected is to grant himself some pardons and do some damage to those he considers to be his political enemies.)

PBS Washington Week With The Atlantic

The info about the show is: "PBS Washington Week with The Atlantic is the longest-running primetime news and public affairs program on television. The show features a group of journalists participating in a weekly roundtable discussion of major news events. Moderated by Jeffrey Goldberg, Editor-in-Chief of The Atlantic."

The episode I saw yesterday shows it as a preview now but the full episode should become available soon - I expect:

Preview: Coming Up on Washington Week with The Atlantic Feb. 01, 2024 AT 7:23 p.m. EST

Episode overview:

"U.S. Retaliation Amid Middle East Chaos:

"Earlier this week, President Biden told reporters that he has decided how the U.S. will respond to the Iran-backed militia drone attack that killed three American soldiers in Jordan on Sunday. The Biden administration has made it clear that the U.S. does not want war with Iran, as any plans to retaliate could further escalate tensions in the Middle East.

"It’s unclear if the mounting foreign conflicts will spill over into the voting booth as Americans head for a potential Biden-Trump rematch this November.

"Joining editor in chief of The Atlantic and moderator, Jeffrey Goldberg to discuss this and more:

    "Peter Baker, Chief White House Correspondent, New York Times
    "Susan Glasser, Staff Writer, The New Yorker
    "Lara Seligman, Defense Reporter, POLITICO
    "Nancy Youssef, National Security Correspondent, Wall Street Journal"

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 01:23 PM

I watch that program almost every week (when I remember). It was Washington Week In Review forever and had some standout hosts. Heartbreak when Gwen Ifill died (age 61). They have had different hosts over the years, not for so long. It is a recent development that they merged with The Atlantic magazine for this program.

I don't remember hearing any particular revelations regarding the outlook for military spending on that program.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 04 Feb 24 - 02:28 PM

Regarding military spending, I think that the Ukraine situation was mentioned, but probably not military spending within the U.S.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Feb 24 - 02:26 PM

Lots of moving parts when keeping track of Trump trials. There are two higher courts looking at his claims of immunity and his standing as far as appearing on ballots in states.

Looking into the final verdict in the civil fraud trial that wrapped up last month, last Friday a spokesman for the New York State Office of Court Administration said "It’s looking like early to mid-February, as a rough estimate, and subject to modifications. But that’s the working plan now."

In the E. Jean Carroll second trial, Trump has 30 days after the judgement to pay at least $90M, though she can't collect until after the appeal. Trump is trying to get the results overturned because Carroll's lead attorney worked in the same legal firm as the judge thirty years ago. He is the king of grasping at straws. He already dropped $5M in cash for the first Carroll verdict last year.

In Business Insider they say

A source familiar with the case, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to do so publicly, told Business Insider that Trump's $5.5 million was still there, pending the outcome of his appeal of that first verdict. An appellate court is set to eventually decide whether Carroll gets all, some, or none of that $5.5 million.

This time around, Trump can again ask the judge to let him set Carroll's second, much higher damages award aside in a court-managed account. There, it would sit pending appeal, just like the $5.5 million from the first verdict.

If the judge says no — and $90 million is a lot for a court to babysit — Trump would have to secure Carroll's money through what's called an appeal bond.

The bond would cost him a lot more. Follow the link for that discussion.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 24 - 02:24 PM

Today there is a rare audio streaming from the Supreme Court regarding the 14th amendment on Trump's eligibility to run for PRESIDENT AGAIN.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 07 Feb 24 - 05:40 PM

US federal appeals court rejects Donald Trump's sweeping immunity claim

"In short: A federal appeals court has ruled the former US president Donald Trump does not have blanket immunity in a case in which he has been charged with plotting to overturn his 2020 election defeat.

"The court found that any "executive immunity" provided by the presidency no longer shielded him from prosecution.

"What's next? The case will be paused until at least February 12 to give Mr Trump's team time to appeal to the US Supreme Court."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Feb 24 - 06:32 PM

The court that issued that ruling gave him only until Monday, Feb. 12 to take it to the Supreme Court, they're not letting him drag it out. That is the important thing, that they reign in his delay tactics. If they don't do anything by then, it goes back to Chutkin and she sets a date.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Feb 24 - 07:19 PM

Nit Pick of the Day: one reins in a bolting horse (eg Trump), esp if he wishes to reign.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 07 Feb 24 - 09:05 PM

All right, MaJoC, very funny! You win the Pick of the Nits today.

I'd say that it's the people with power trying to "reign" him in. LOL


US attorney-general says special counsel has completed a probe into allegations President Joe Biden mishandled documents

"In short: US Attorney-General Merrick Garland has told congress an investigation into whether President Joe Biden mishandled classified documents dating to his time as vice-president was finished.

"Special Counsel Robert Hur's report will be made public soon, Mr Garland said, adding the White House needed to complete a review of the document for potential executive privilege concerns.

"Documents were found at Mr Biden's Delaware home and at a private office he used in between his service in the Obama administration and becoming president."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Feb 24 - 10:53 PM

Gotta love autocorrect, it didn't get the syntax of the word (it was probably fixing my typo - "backspace" is the key I use most often on the keyboard).

They're talking about tomorrow's Supreme Court hearing; I don't know if I'll be able to listen live but I'm sure it will be rebroadcast ad nauseum. This to do with states taking him off of the ballot for participating in an insurrection.

(On MSNBC tonight they're also talking about Clarence Thomas and Dark Money and Leonard Leo and tax laws and the court ethics laws - it feeds into the discussion because it's about how Trump was able to appoint those three justices, supported by Leo.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 07 Feb 24 - 11:03 PM

SRS, I should have searched for this before but I thought it wouldn't be available outside of Australia. I've been watching this show since the Trump adventures began. It's very balanced and insightful with some excellent guest interviews.

Planet America

A lot of what you say in this thread aligns with the commentary from the presenters, John Barron and Chas Licciardello.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Feb 24 - 11:20 PM

I find those references to ABC interesting - because we have a national ABC network here also. The squiggly logo was the give away (along with the accents when I hit play). I'll take a look at those, thanks!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 08 Feb 24 - 12:30 AM

Yes, ABC here and ABC there! :-D

When Trump was elected I also started watching the (American) ABC News with David Muir and others. Before that I never watched those shows but I really started to worry about the state of the world with Trump in charge.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 24 - 06:28 AM

Trump has a small advantage in the Supreme Court today to stay on the Colorado ballot but the Court is damned if they do and damned if they don't.
In such cases it is better to just do the right thing. There is a possibility Trump will lose. His lawyers will go first at 7:30 AM today.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 08 Feb 24 - 06:41 AM

Remind me, please: In which state did Trump not appear on the ballot paper, only for the winner to be "none of the above"?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 08 Feb 24 - 11:38 AM

MaJoC, I confess to being confused about the primary and caucus voting to choose party candidates but I did hear about this on the Planet America show I mentioned. I just found this article which explains why Haley chose not to be on the primary ballot because there was also a caucus vote. Reading the whole article helped me to get a bit more clarity about the primary and caucus voting:

Nikki Haley loses to 'none of these candidates' in the Nevada GOP primary

"Nikki Haley faced no major challenger Tuesday in Nevada’s presidential primary.

"She still lost, according to NBC News projections.

"Nevada voters in the state-run primary had a choice to reject all the candidates on the ballot, and they did just that — with more people choosing to vote for “none of these candidates” than for Haley.

"Former President Donald Trump, far and away the front-runner for the Republican nomination, wasn’t on the same ballot as Haley because he is set to compete in party-run caucuses Thursday.

"It was a stinging rebuke of Haley, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and South Carolina governor — and one that some party leaders had encouraged. The outcome in Nevada was Haley's third consecutive loss in an early-state primary contest.

"Still, Haley's campaign indicated that the results wouldn't affect how long she'd stay in the race.

"'Even Donald Trump knows that when you play penny slots, the house wins. We didn’t bother to play a game rigged for Trump. We’re full steam ahead in South Carolina and beyond,' spokesperson Olivia Perez-Cubas said."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Feb 24 - 11:40 AM

Alito is giving the Colorado attorney a lot of grief, suggesting he isn't answering the questions. In fact it sounds like he's simply being confrontational, trying to change focus.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 03:07 AM

I know you don't want to hear it but...

Nevada :-(

Saying it cannot happen when all evidence shows otherwise is a route to disaster

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 04:36 AM

The arguments of Colorado before the Supreme Court were weak and did not highlight the Trump insurrection. I can not fault the Court if they unanimously sided with Trump.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 06:12 AM

Results of a chaotic Republican primary are no more foretelling than the holy apparitions of Trump in the skies of Nevada which by the way had two FUBAR competing Trump primaries. Some states have a Republican State Committee that is bankrupt. Remember only Republicans vote in a primary and many of them are motivated by paid attendance, fear, or conspiracy lies.

Eventually, a Republican party is inconsequential to Trump cultism.
For Trumpers the new boss is the exact same guy as the old boss.
The problem is that it is the same scenario for Democrats with Biden.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 06:43 AM

On top of a Republican decree that the Trump insurrection did not happen we now have the Trump brigade.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 24 - 07:02 AM

Here is the decree.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 09:25 AM

Billy Graham II Jr. says Trump did not create an insurrection, God chose him to create a resurrection.
The Republicans in Congress all agree to avoid prison time.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 10:23 AM

The Supreme Court has another at bat coming up soon, to do with the Chutkin trial. He was given until Monday to take that decision before the court; pundits have remarked that the Appellate decision was so tightly and well-constructed that the Supremes may say they're good with it and let it stand.

One can only hope. It would get that trial underway a lot faster.

Too bad Merrick Garland was so busy looking impartial that he didn't get the prosecution going on the Trump cases until after the House of Representatives was at bat.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 11:21 AM

‘At bat’? Say what??

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 01:45 PM

I suspect it's a baseball term, though I of course thought of cricket first.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 01:57 PM

You’re probably right MaJoC, although I’ve never heard the term before. In the case of cricket, it would surely be “At the crease”.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 03:06 PM

The noun "at-bat" has been baseball lingo for as long as I can remember. The number of a player's "at-bats" is a basic stat. I mean "statistic."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 03:21 PM

Thanks Lighter - makes sense.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 03:51 PM

If you're the mighty Casey you're "at the bat".

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 04:47 PM

Trump is simply batty.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 05:47 PM

It is a baseball term, an idiomatic phrase that we don't even think about. It means they heard one case this week and they get another whack at him next week with a different case. Another one used a lot is "Batting 1000," which would be a perfect record, hitting every ball perfectly every time.

Trump thought he was batting 1000 in the past court cases he's had when he could get away with the criminal behavior (in civil courts to do with housing laws and zoning laws and with bankruptcy and such) - the reason he was called "Teflon Don." Nothing touched him, until now.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 07:28 PM

Regarding the Teflon Don handle, someone once told me that the bullying manager I had worked with until he lost me my job was "as slippery as duck $hit" which I understood even better a few years later when I walked through a field full of the stuff. LOL

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 10:35 PM

My sympathies, Helen: I suffered from the same work problem. I've just realised that's part of why I tend to walk out of the room when Turnip is on the news.

Methinks the news programmes should do with Turnip what they used to have to do in the UK when broadcasting terrorists' voices was banned: have his words voiced by an actor. I nominate Donald Duck.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 24 - 10:52 PM

The horrible boss I worked for (and I retired before they could fire me) supported the same political party I do, but I have to wonder at the anomale; she had no interest in fair play or civil rights. She was too busy trying to run off all of the older employees to capture those wages for other uses. A real Trumpian acolyte (she moved to a new university; perhaps she has now moved to the other party).

Donald Duck would be amusing for Trump's voice. But what about a real villain, someone like Pat Carroll who played Ursula the Sea Witch. It would drive him nuts that the voice was so clear and that it was a woman. :)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 12 Feb 24 - 12:13 AM

Ah, don't get me started on bullying bosses and toxic work cultures! Sorry for the thread creep. :-(

Did Melissa McCarthy do an impression of Trump at some stage? I seem to remember that.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Feb 24 - 10:47 AM

You've conflated voice work, Helen. Melissa McCarthy played Ursula in the new live action version of The Little Mermaid. I haven't seen that, but I saw and heard the earlier one when my children were small. McCarthy did a stunning impersonation of Sean Spicer several times for Saturday Night Live

Leslie Jones did a great skit about wanting to play him (in which another woman also dresses as Trump, but Leslie gets the last laugh, so to speak).

McCarthy's impersonation of Spicer had some interesting fallout.

I've seen Alec Baldwin return many times to play Trump, but in general it's another actor who portrays him these days. I never remember to watch the show but I see clips later in the week after it plays.

This week should offer ample opportunity to generate more material. He can't shut up when people criticise him or cases go against him.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 12 Feb 24 - 01:39 PM

True confession: I don't know which rock I've been hiding under but I've never seen The Little Mermaid. LOL

On our ABC (Oz) TV I probably saw a snippet of a skit with Alec Baldwin doing an impression of Trump and Melissa McCarthy as Sean Spicer and conflated that. I just had a memory of MM's face made up as a man and that it was very funny.

An interesting aside: in the Washington Post article about "some interesting fallout" I tried to follow the link (but was blocked due to not being a subscriber) about Trump using the pseudonym "John Barron" because that is the name of one of the presenters on the Planet America show that I mentioned on 07 Feb 24 - 11:03 PM. I can guarantee that Trump would not like our John Barron talking on his behalf to the media!!

And also, on Planet America they sometimes use a very clever voice actor to read out some of Trump's messages that he has posted on social media platforms.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Feb 24 - 02:46 PM

Little Mermaid is great. We did the animated one nearly every weekend when our daughters were little and 30+ years later we watched the live action one a few weeks back. Trump is definitely Ursula. Promises all sorts and then screws you!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Feb 24 - 05:27 PM

But back to Trump: CAN'T SOMEBODY CONVICT THAT SUCKER?

But I suppose a conviction will drive the MAGA folks to vote Trump in, so he can pardon himself. Hey, you lazy Democrats, get out and VOTE!!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 12 Feb 24 - 06:04 PM

I'm halfway through the last episode of an Oz series about three of our conservative Prime Ministers who were ousted from their roles: two by political backstabbing in their own party, but the third, Scott Morrison aka ScoMo, by losing the last election. One of ScoMo's key issues was that he undervalued the concerns and issues of women voters and also women who were part of his government. Women's votes were crucial in his party's election loss.

So I second your statement encouraging Democrat supporters to vote but I am adding an encouragement for all women to vote as well, because Trump's attitude to women and women's issues could be crucial in the outcome of the election, IMHO.

Also, I am picking up from a lot of commentary on TV shows here that a lot of Republicans are playing their cards close to their chests, awaiting the outcomes of those trials before they say anything too negative about Trump for fear of getting his supporters offside. If Trump has significant losses in the trials, the game result may be a whole lot different.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Feb 24 - 07:40 PM

Stilly reminded me of my 'poor unfortunate soul' Trump parody song.

Donnie's court schedule this week is a real grab-bag.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 24 - 11:09 AM

Joe, one red state at a time women and their partners are stepping up, and not just Democratic women. They want access to human rights - reproductive freedom. That will be one predictably reliable way to get people to the polls.

The congressional election today on Long Island (after Santos was forced out) is as much a referendum about the GOP as it is the race itself. Trump is currently trying to force the woman heading the RNC out and get his daughter-in-law installed; perhaps the current head isn't paying as many of his legal bills as he wants. The commentators this morning were saying that if the RNC was really at work for the party they'd be looking for other GOP candidates who can stand up to Trump.

Some of our speculative chatter is keeping the thread in view until the next big event. There will be a hearing this week about Fani Willis and her romantic relationship (she should have known better than to think she could have a private life at this point in time!) because Trump hopes if she is removed the court will put a more favorable prosecutor in who will either 1. drop the whole thing or 2. delay delay delay. If on the other hand Fani steps down she can appoint someone from her office to take care of things. Or she can hope to get a fair hearing and stay on for the job.

Trump doesn't care how he wins, and if he can make someone else look bad in the process, the happier he is. I know New Yorkers are still shaking their heads that the country elected this buffoon and now everyone has to deal with and watch his BS.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 24 - 06:51 AM

Fanni has until Valentine's day to appoint a replacement prosecutor to avoid a potential dismissal of her case for possibly having sex with the highest paid lawyer on her staff. That's a real Valentine surprise.

Yeah I know the facts sound like political comic relief.
Just like the two elderly candidates for President are engaged in a battle to the death via high blood pressure strategy. To counter the stress from the indictments; Trump allies hit Biden with not remembering the date and hour of his son's death. Whew Joe's blood pressure spiked that day.

The last time these Methusala candidates faced each other they set the record for the oldest candidates on record to run. This time they are locked in a real death clock battle for survival. Fandual might be the only winner in this septuagenarian dual to the final curtain.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 24 - 02:13 PM

There are plenty of people who attest to Biden's sound thinking and abilities, but Trump will keep hammering away just because he can.

Today it seems one of his acolytes is trying to alarm the American public by hinting that something is happening that Biden should declassify. Top Republican warns of 'serious national security threat,' rankling White House
The president's adviser plans to brief congressional leaders.

Considering that earlier in the week Jake Sullivan set up a meeting with the top House and Senate ("gang of eight") security folks, it sounds like the GOP guy Mike Turner is telegraphing to Trump. Since Trump is given absolutely no security briefings because of his unreliability, Turner is handing Trump a complaint point - something along the lines of "they should share this stuff with the former president" or "if I was in the White House now I'd have fixed this and told you all about it already." Along those lines. If Turner told Trump without permission, he'd be in deep shit and he knows that Trump can't keep a secret, so if he heard something top secret, he's share it immediately on his Truth Social platform.

Yeah, Willis shot herself in the foot, even it if doesn't have any impact on the case. There's a reason they call it "stupid in love."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 24 - 08:21 AM

Like Biden, I have always gotten someone's name wrong or at minimum misspelled names. With theoretical physics, I easily get lost somewhere between observable particles and the fields that are responsible for their partial existence. Some things befuddle me but I can usually ride the comprehension train for most things. I don't feel too old to use memory correctly. Biden has wisdom despite being a lifelong gaff machine, politically speaking.

In comparison, Trump is certifiable depending upon the physicians.

The glaring fact that in only four years! Trump increased the national debt by well over 8 trillion dollars is reason enough to reject him.
Clinton added 1.4 trillion in 8 years. Bush added over 8 Trillion as well as Obama over 8 years. Biden has added 1.2 Trillion so far.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 06:49 AM

Fanni Willis took the stand without being called and defiantly plopped in the chair. She was angry. Trump lawyers did not uncover any evidence of kick backs and were stymied to the point they could only harp over the same questions until the judge got fed up and told them to sit down.

Apparently, the brief affair with a fellow attorney after Trump's indictment did not end well. What did not come out was that Fanni had to live in a safe house at that time because of the Trump inspired death threats and could not live in her home.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned...Trump lawyers did not see a strong woman coming after them. The scarlet letter they tried to make her wear got ground up under her shoe.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 07:48 AM

How courageous is Trump? Suppose he faces an imminent jailable offense for a felony, will he become a flight risk?
Will he be as brave
as Navalny and stay?
Will there be a day
when his passport is taken away?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 08:37 AM

Tim Scott wants to be Trump's VP which would make Ebony and Ivory vs. Ivory and Rosewood.

FBI informant found to fake documents and testimony of Hunter Biden's Ukraine business. Who needs deep fakes when old-fashioned paid purgery still works? Who would hire such an informant?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 09:08 AM

Willis acquitted herself well yesterday - the Trump folks would ask a leading and suggestive question then say "yes or no" and she refused to give them what they wanted. Telling them they asked the question wrong and giving them no ammunition, instead dumping their gunpowder into the water to neutralize it.

Today we should learn about the civil fraud amount from that trial.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 02:50 PM

Never underestimate the power of a woman. Yay to Judge Fani Willis!!

My personal opinion is that Trump underestimates the power of women in every aspect of his life, and that he will never hesitate to dish the dirt on any woman who tries to prevent him from getting what he wants.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 04:34 PM

Someone else can link to a story, but
the judge pronounced Trump guilty
and ordered him to pay a whopper of a fine
and forbade him to transact in the real estate business for three years
and I forget what all else.

The media are jumping all over it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 05:32 PM

Donald Trump must pay $US355 million in penalties, barred from NY business for three years, judge rules

"In short: Donald Trump will have to pay $US354.9 million in penalties for fraudulently overstating his net worth by as much as US$3.6 billion a year over a decade to get bankers to give him better loan terms.

"Mr Trump and his adult sons, Don Jr and Eric, were defendants in the case - the younger Trumps were each ordered by the judge to pay $US4 million

"What's next? Mr Trump's lawyer Alina Habba said in a statement that the ruling was a "manifest injustice" and said she plans to appeal the ruling."

...

"Justice Engoron cancelled his prior ruling from September ordering the "dissolution" of companies that control pillars of Mr Trump's real estate empire, saying on Friday that this was no longer necessary because he is appointing an independent monitor and compliance director to oversee Mr Trump's businesses.

"In the ruling, Justice Engoron wrote that Mr Trump and the other defendants in the case 'are incapable of admitting the error of their ways'.

"'Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological,' Justice Engoron wrote.

"'Instead, they adopt a 'see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil' posture that the evidence belies.'"

"It sounds even more impressive in Aussie dollars, $AU543 million.
...


I'm guessing it's just pocket money for him, but not being able to operate in New York for three years will make his blood boil, I bet.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 06:40 PM

Listening to MSNBC this evening it sounds like it isn't pocket change - Trump has been hemorrhaging cash because he takes cash from profitable businesses and puts it into those that aren't. And from the high of being on TV on the apprentice program to running for office, he lost the cash that used to come in from the Trump branding. He has apparently been quietly selling off properties.

Good.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 07:41 PM

Trump can't even find a bond for the 5 million he owes Jean.
btw Helen, Fani is merely a prosecutor now but was formerly a judge.

Hey Donald Jr and Eric got 4 million dollar fines on top of the cash dad owes.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 09:29 PM

I was being facetious. Compared to me and what's in MY pocket, his multi-million penalties are only pocket change for him. LOL

And I realised after I had posted that Fani Willis is an Attorney-General and not a judge, but I feel better knowing that she was a judge before because I recall her being referred to as a judge. (Maybe I'm not losing quite so many marbles as I think I am.)

A more analytical article in (Oz) ABC News:

Donald Trump faces countless court cases. But this $US355 million fraud ruling could hurt the most


It's a long article, but I think it is worth reading. The section headings are:

What did the court decide?
Remind me – what's this case about?
What is a 'scorched earth defence' and why did it backfire?
How has Trump reacted?
What does this mean for Trump's real estate empire?
What other cases are looming over Trump?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 24 - 08:23 AM

If Trump really needs cash there are billionaires here and in Saudi Arabia that want millions of dollars worth of reasons for Trump to give them a good deal - if he is ever President again.

Nobody is asking me but I think Trump is an historic bad bet.
Even Kushner got 2 billion from the Middle East. Not bad for a Real Estate panhandler.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 24 - 11:04 AM

Surprise ! Judge Cannon has denied the motions to delay the Mara Lago files case.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Feb 24 - 12:32 PM

Jack Smith met with Cannon for several hours last week; perhaps she is beginning to see that the horse she is backing is going down anyway so she might as well help lead him to that water. (Sorry about those mangled metaphors.)

The stories people were telling and illustrating with graphics yesterday were remarkable. Mar A Lago is a prime example - the Florida county estimates it is worth between $18 and $27m, but Trump was reporting 10 times those amounts. The property in Westchester County, NY, was valued by Trump as if the land had been subdivided and seven mansions already built and turnkey ready. No taking into account the process of getting permission to subdivide or the cost of building all of those dwellings.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 24 - 12:42 PM

The courts are having their moment but Congress is still home of the wettest whistles in Washington.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Feb 24 - 12:47 PM

From RawStory

Trump has already been 'quietly' selling off properties before court losses: NYT reporter

"He sold the operating lease to a golf course he had in New York," she elaborated. "He is also been quietly selling condominiums around New York and buildings he owned. He sold a house he owned in L.A. He has been, I don't know, stockpiling the cash he has been selling down, we don't know how much cash he has on hand. He said last year, close to 400 million."

The gold-tone sneakers are his latest desperate attempt to raise cash. I guess he isn't aware of the millions-worth of Kanye West sneakers that Adidas is trying to unload since they cut ties. There may be a glut in the name-brand sneakers world.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 24 - 07:49 PM

I'm thinking the LIV golf association might buy some Trump courses cheap. After all, Trump needs a quarter billion for his legal charges since he only has 300 mil in cash.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Feb 24 - 12:20 PM

Supreme Court allows sanctions against Trump-allied lawyers over 2020 election lawsuit
The justices leave in place an appeals court ruling that partly upheld sanctions arising from a lawsuit claiming that presidential election results in Michigan were rigged.

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Tuesday rejected appeals brought by Trump-allied lawyers who faced legal sanctions for baselessly alleging in court that the 2020 election in Michigan was fraudulently won by President Joe Biden.

By rejecting the appeals, the court left in place a June 2023 ruling by the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that partially upheld the sanctions. . . .The lawyers were ordered to pay legal fees, undertake new legal training and were referred to their respective state bar associations for any disciplinary procedures.

These attorneys are going to be bankrupt long before Trump is.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Feb 24 - 01:49 PM

The LA Times has a paywall you hit pretty quickly, but I'll leave the share crap in the URL and it might open.

Opinion: How not to cover Donald Trump’s bizarre 2024 campaign for president

From October 7, 2023.
It starts:

The press should borrow a lyric from “The Sound of Music” and ask itself: “How do you solve a problem like Donald?” Or, put another way, how should journalists cover Trump’s unprecedented campaign for president while under indictment for trying to overturn an election and more?

The question concerns not just Trump but also politics and campaigns more broadly in an age of fragmented media and polarized politics. The answer requires recognizing journalists’ altered role and fulfilling it with more care, preparation and diligence.

Many confronting the challenge of covering Trump conclude that, as a recent column in the Arizona Republic put it, “It’s time to stop giving Trump airtime.” The larger point is that the media shouldn’t give exposure to people they know are going to make provably false assertions.

The problem with the “Don’t amplify liars” argument is twofold. First, the press is no longer a gatekeeper of what people know; it’s more often an annotator of what they’ve already heard elsewhere. So not covering Trump, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene or others in politics who say patently false things will not silence them. It will just leave them less examined.

Second, it’s a dereliction of the press’ duty to ignore powerful dissemblers and liars in public life. We have an obligation to explain what’s false and offer clear and persuasive evidence of the truth. We have to help the public understand.

The suggestion here is to develop a questioning strategy as an attorney would. "Attorneys identify where they want to end up and work backward, developing a series of questions that will guide a dishonest witness to a place where their evasions are exposed. Journalists need to plan their interviews in the same way but too often don’t."

It describes a Trump interview with Jonathan Swan that didn't go the way Trump wanted because the journalist was prepared to refute the fake stuff Trump spouted. And concludes, regarding the Meet The Press interview used to start the article, "When journalists lack that level of preparation, they slide into a trap Welker fell into. She ended up in a debate with Trump, repeatedly insisting “That’s not true” but having nothing in hand to prove it."

It gives a lot of examples of places journalists should do their research and fact-checking, and spend less time covering rallies (I think that is finally beginning to be the case for Trump rallies, fewer national journalists there, at any rate.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 22 Feb 24 - 02:07 PM

Thanks for that article, SRS.

Reading that makes me aware and very, very thankful for the standard of journalism on the Oz ABC radio and TV network. I think they fit that standard extremely well.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 24 - 04:40 PM

The ongoing danger is what the US must deal with after this Trump horserace is surely over. The Christian fascist nationalists will have many representatives in the government and courts for years to come.

Alabama courts are calling zygotes embryos or children now. The judge quotes God but not statutes.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Feb 24 - 08:44 PM

So this happened this afternoon:

Judge denies Trump's request to delay enforcement of $355M fraud case penalties
Trump's lawyers had requested a 30-day delay in the enforcement of penalties.

The judge in former President Donald Trump's civil fraud case has rejected a request from the defense to delay the enforcement of the penalties in the case.

The defendants had asked Judge Arthur Engoron to delay the enforcement of the penalties by 30 days to allow for an "orderly post-judgment process."

"You have failed to explain, much less justify, any basis for a stay," Engoron wrote in an email posted Thursday to the court docket. "I am confident that the Appellate Division will protect your appellate rights.

The rest at the link.

And this from PBS: Trump’s properties could be seized if $454 million civil fraud debt not paid, warns NY AG James

Donald Trump could be at risk of losing some of his prized properties if he can’t pay his staggering New York civil fraud penalty. With interest, he owes the state nearly $454 million — and the amount is going up $87,502 each day until he pays.

New York Attorney General Letitia James told ABC News on Tuesday that she will seek to seize some of the former president’s assets if he’s unable to cover the bill from Judge Arthur Engoron’s Feb. 16 ruling.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Feb 24 - 05:02 PM

With the discovery that the FBI informant on the Bidens is a Russian agent, Chinese agents are also now exposed in the Trump election campaign.

The CIA has a saying "if you keep poisonous snakes in your yard and you disturb them, don't expect them to only bite your neighbors".

Jim Jorden and others have been bit.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Feb 24 - 11:05 PM

The amount Trump is actually going to have to pay since Engoron signed the orders in that case is much higher than the amount calculated by news outlets last week. The orders include the interest on some of those amounts that goes back years, added onto the base announced last week. He owes $454M now and the interest every day until he pays is ~ 111,000.00 PER DAY. They're talking about it on MSNBC tonight.

This story from USA Today gives graphics and scroll to the bottom for a breakdown of the amounts he is liable for so far. How much is Trump ordered to pay? Graphics show a possible $500 million in penalties

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 12:05 AM

This might be a bit confusing, but ...

I use a term "sheepdogging" in certain situations where someone is out of control (usually in work situations with a pushy person doing things s/he shouldn't be doing) and then another person begins to quietly, determinedly round her/him up, like smart, quietly clever sheepdogs rounding up a mob of sheep based on commands from a nearby human.

It may take a bit of running around by the dogs, but eventually the mob of sheep are doing what they are expected to do. The sheep may not even realise that they have been outwitted by dogs and humans. The dogs don't bark or make a fuss. They just get on with the job.

I've been thinking about that in relation to Trump and his legal adventures. Initially he might think he is in control of the situation, but little by little he is being herded into a place where he no longer has as much control as he expects and he will have to start doing what he is told.

Another way of looking at it is that the noose around Trump's neck - figuratively speaking - is softly tightening, little by little every day and he might think he'll get away with it all, but I think he underestimates his legal opponents.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 05:21 AM

He doesn't care about the legal opposition. It gives him publicity and a platform to play the victim. The big trouble is, and I expect to be told off for this, it seems to be working :-(

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 05:22 AM

The RNC says they have their own problems and don't want to pay Trump's legal debts. His Freedom PAC is saying they will. It looks like there will not be any transparency of that dark money.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 05:34 AM

The next Trump coup will be done all by the House.

Step 1: Ensure a R majority in the House by not certifying certain DEM wins

Step 2: Challenge certain States in the Presidential election.

Step 3: MAKE SURE neither candidate has enough delegates to win and the Constitution says the House will decide the election.



The election deniers can simply not certify and achieve a Trump win.


THIS IS ONE OF THREE POSTS THAT WAS DELETED.

---

Stop straying off of the topic into esoteric stuff and they won't be deleted. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 07:42 AM

Donuel, I read your comment about the zygotes and embryos.

The only reason I knew why you were mentioning that is because on Wednesday on the Oz TV show called Planet America Fireside Chat there was a segment on the Alabama ruling.

One political comment on the show was that this ruling would alienate more voters, especially couples hoping to have successful outcomes with in vitro fertilisation (IVF) programmes. A consequence of preventing or limiting IVF would be to also limit the number of children being born, which would seem to be contrary to the intention of Republicans who want to limit abortions to encourage more children being born.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 08:16 AM

It’s a very strange phenomenon - Republican ‘Pro-lifers’ defending the rights of the unborn, even of the unfertilised egg, yet decidedly anti-life when it comes to defending the rights of actual, living, breathing children by controlling the guns than kill them in their classrooms.

What a bunch of cockwombles.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 08:27 AM

My mistake: the Planet America show is broadcast on Wednesday nights here and the Planet America Fireside Chat show is Friday nights.

BWM, I don't actually know what a cockwomble is, but I can guess from the example you mentioned. LOL

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 08:37 AM

Trump has already distanced himself from the IVF controversy.
Its a 20 year old concern for the religious right. They called the frozen cells snowflake babies and complained extra zygotes were being thrown out with the bathwater when clinics disposed of them.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 09:36 AM

BWM, I don't actually know what a cockwomble is

Presumably, a cockwomble is a male womble, such as Uncle Bulgaria or Tobermory. Madame Cholet, by that reckoning, would be a henwomble.
;-)

DC

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 12:10 PM

LOL! Never thought of that, Doug! :-)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 12:24 PM

The South Carolina primary is today, and Haley says she's in it for the long run, even if Trump wins today. She can do the math and is hoping that she's the last woman standing when Trump is officially found guilty of a federal crime. Gotta give her credit for figuring that out, but she has been a Trump toady for too long to make her an acceptable candidate. Hell, at this point, Romney should run. He's a lot less crazy sounding now; in his campaign against Obama in 2012 he was rejected as a tool of the rich. At least he is a normal human being. And he'd fit as far as the age of the rest of them, he's a year younger than Trump. :)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 01:20 PM

I think the big question re Nikki Haley is whether the Republicans would ever, ever, ever vote for a woman as president. I think she is assuming that they would consider her equal to a man and capable of anything a man could do and I would be very surprised if enough voters would turn out for her.


Very funny, DC!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 01:20 PM

Trump ousted RNC chairwoman because she was related to Mitt.
He replaced her with a Trump relation.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 05:00 PM

BWM & DC, I'm guessing that if the cockwombles and henwombles are free range then they would be Wombling Free.

(The link is just in case the non-Brits and non-Aussies don't know what we're talking about. LOL)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 05:15 PM

Nice one Helen! ;-)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 05:52 PM

The punchline from Don's RNC article:

And what have the Romneys gotten for their convenient pro-Trump obsequiousness? Their legacy left in rubble, ostracized from a Republican Party they helped to build.

As the saying goes, “Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.”

The media could learn from that also - if you go for the ratings because Trump says stupid things you just promote his brand, as stupid as it is.

For those needing a scorecard (or a court calendar) here is the Just Security site with all of the stats and dates. All week next week Mar-a-Lago stuff is up; the MAL abbreviation suits Trump and this case perfectly; from Dictionary.com: "a combining form meaning “bad,” “wrongful,” “ill,” occurring originally in loanwords from French (malapert); on this model, used in the formation of other words (malfunction; malcontent)."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Feb 24 - 06:16 PM

And don't forget malnutrition. All those fried foods and burgers. That might be his ultimate downfall.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 24 - 08:02 AM

It's only natural that Trump is deeply envious of Putin's dictatorship. Trump is envious of the fantastic wealth of its oligarchs, the election fix is deeply entrenched, and Russia is in keeping with Trump's ideals on racism. I bet the US drinks more black russains in a day than there are actual Black Russians in Russia.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 25 Feb 24 - 06:20 PM

Can someone remind me, please? --- did the Black Russian turn up in the first or second series of Black Adder?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 24 - 06:41 PM

Looks like Season 1 and episode 3. Do you suppose Stephen Fry could play Trump if Blackadder came to Washington? (Only because Robbie Coltrane is gone. It would need to be a big lump of a guy to play him.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Feb 24 - 01:15 PM

There is a page that is a live tracker of Trump's Debt. I set a timer for 1 minute and it looks like he's paying (right now) about $82 a minute on that debt. It adds up in a hurry.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Feb 24 - 01:33 PM

After March 31 the interest is $87,000 a day.

Finding a billionaire or a collective of billionaires willing to risk cash on a bad penny will be difficult along with someone Trump can trust with the receivership of his property assets.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 24 - 05:31 AM

I'm not sure if the interest clock starts the moment Trump appeals so maybe interest has already started.


Boy, I was totally wrong about Musk. I now think he falls on the side of madness, not genius. I would like to know why he is all in for Russia and is anti American democracy.

Subject: RE: Trump droppings number II
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 24 - 02:11 PM

Trump is proving his youthful powers by trying things he's never tried before. This week it was a salad.

His court thinks money is speech, corporations are people and Liberty is the freedom to take away rights, especially from women.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 27 Feb 24 - 06:22 PM

Former Aussie Prime Minister who showed himself as a poor imitation of Trump, in my opinion, is leaving Parliament and will take up two new jobs which are based in the USA but he will be working from Australia. His farewell parliamentary speech was yesterday. I didn't bother watching it.

Scary!!

Questions raised after Scott Morrison’s new defence job revealed

"Mr Morrison will clock in alongside key former Trump figures, former secretary of state Mike Pompeo and ex-security advisor Robert O’Brien.

"Scott Morrison has come under fire for taking on two jobs in the US private defence sector after the former prime minister announced his exit from politics.

"After revealing plans to resign in February, Mr Morrison said he would be joining consulting firm American Global Strategies as non-executive vice chairman.

"He will also assume a strategic advisor role with AUKUS investor DYNE Maritime, alongside former US Secretary of State and ex-CIA director Mike Pompeo.

"The venture capital company invests in technologies related to the joint security agreement that was orchestrated under Mr Morrison’s leadership.

"Greens [political party] defence spokesman David Shoebridge said Mr Morrison’s swift move into the private defence sector was an example of why the public was cynical about politicians.

“'Morrison is leaving politics only to grab his very unfair share of the billions of dollars of public money that he has shovelled into AUKUS,' Senator Shoebridge said.


The rest of the article has some interesting views, which I tend to agree with.

Morrison aka ScoMo was a slippery character while in the role of PM and he'll still be slippery in his new roles.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 24 - 06:48 PM

If for any number of reasons Trump can not get nominated or run for PREZ who will get the nod? Mitch McConnel is available but is older than Biden. I picture Mitch frozen at the mike while a mechanical voice like Hawking drones on. All other contenders seem as unlikely.
Trump may think he will seek and not accept election results but he may not have a liars choice.

Biden might not be able to continue, then what? The masked candidate?
Believe it or not but nearly half of Americans do not want Trump or Biden.


Lucky Aussies.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Feb 24 - 09:05 PM

Tonight on MSNBC someone was discussing the possibility of Don, Jr, getting the nod if his father is prevented from taking office while the race is still underway. [barf emoji]

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 24 - 09:56 AM

I'M NOT INTERESTED IN WRITING AN EXPOSE'. However, the Republicans have engineered the Presidential election wins 3 times with crimes to my knowledge.

The Reagan campaign steered 40 million dollars to Iran to only release hostages to him. The October surprise.

Bush got the Supreme Court to elect him. The Florida surprise.

Trump tried a 3 pronged coup that failed. The January surprise the fake elector surprise and the Rasberger surprises. Trump tried to get the military to seize voting machines but failed.

Taking the long view is eye-opening compared to looking only at current events.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 24 - 01:44 PM

Helen's term sheepdogging can be applied to AI algorithm control of societal thinking.

I stumbled on this link https://sbstatesman.com/122912/opinions/can-ai-lead-to-the-spread-of-fascist-agendas/

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Feb 24 - 02:43 PM

There have been numerous "October surprises" at the presidential level, but it only became a meme after 1980.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise

Now calculated "October surprises" are hardly a surprise.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Feb 24 - 05:55 PM

The Supreme Court is going to wade into this. They didn't accept the well-reasoned and well-written decision from the appellate court. The shit is getting deeper. This comes up on the same day that Trump's folks tried to get the court to accept about 15 cents on the dollar of his settlement costs. At least that judge told him "NO." Trump must come up with the full bond amount to cover the $454 million civil fraud trial judgment, appeals court judge rules

Associate Justice Anil Singh, however, lifted a ban on Trump’s ability to obtain loans from a New York bank, which could allow him to access the equity in his assets to back the full bond amount.

Singh denied Trump’s request to delay his obligation to post $454 million until a full appellate panel hears his motion to stay enforcement of that judgment until his appeals of the civil fraud ruling are over.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 24 - 06:44 PM

The Supreme Court heard the Bush V Gore in a week.
They heard the Colorado ballot case in 30 days.
They have now taken 130 days to hear the Trump immunity case which should be enough to delay a trial or stop a trial before the election.

Trump wins no matter how the Court decides as late as the end of June.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 05:29 AM

While Trump gets the S.C. to take his B.S. claim that he is immune which is as absurd as declaring he is a banana, he has quietly moved his two main cash businesses out of N.Y. State and has hidden them in FL. to avoid payment to Jean Carroll and the fraud case. However, he couldn't move Trump Tower.

Moving and hiding his assets is against the judge's orders but I guess he thinks he is immune.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 07:07 AM

I heard that story yesterday, moving the cash businesses to Florida. He is dealing with a Federal judge so that move may not stick. If Trump declares bankruptcy Florida protects more assets than most states, but probably not the businesses themselves. Trump Tower is at this point the red herring.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 10:32 AM

Showing up on AP today (their links don't usually load more than a few days):

Texts show prosecutor’s ex-law partner gave info for effort to remove Fani Willis from election case

ATLANTA (AP) — Attorneys for Donald Trump and other defendants in the Georgia election interference case hoped that lawyer Terrence Bradley would provide key testimony in support of their effort to remove Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis — and they had good reason for their optimism.

Over several months, Bradley had been in touch with Ashleigh Merchant, a lawyer for Trump co-defendant Michael Roman, according to hundreds of text messages produced by Merchant as evidence and obtained by The Associated Press on Thursday.

Through the texts, Bradley fed Merchant information and made suggestions to help her prove that Willis had dated Nathan Wade, a special prosecutor hired for the election case. As Wade’s former law partner and onetime divorce attorney, Bradley was well positioned to know things, and the texts seem to back that up.

But when he took the stand to testify under oath in mid-February, Bradley initially refused to answer most questions, asserting attorney-client privilege. On Tuesday, when the judge compelled him to testify after determining some of his communications with Wade weren’t privileged, he repeatedly said he didn’t know or couldn’t remember crucial details. CNN reported on the text messages Wednesday.

Merchant filed a motion Jan. 8 seeking to remove Willis and Wade and their offices from the election case and to toss out the indictment against Trump and 14 others. She alleged that the prosecutors had been romantically involved before Wade was hired in November 2021, and she said Willis paid Wade large sums, then improperly benefited from his earnings when he took her on vacations.

“I am nervous,” Merchant texted Bradley the day she filed her motion, adding, “This is huge.”

He responded with a string of encouraging messages: “You are huge,” “You will be fine,” “You are one of the best lawyers I know,” “Go be great.”

And later in the article:

The texts show Bradley confirming information for Merchant and suggesting records she should request or people she should subpoena. Though he sometimes seemed to want to make sure certain information couldn’t be traced to him, he said he was “ok with” being subpoenaed to testify.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 10:49 AM

Illinois courts have also ruled that he was engaged in insurrection, pending appeal. Just 47 more stares to go

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 01:44 PM

The State of Georgia hearing on the leadership of Fulton County DA Fani Willis is on right now - and the Trump folks stood there and repeated the same lies as if none of it (all of it!) had been debunked. That's what they've been talking about in relation to how Hitler came into power - tell a Big Lie and make it so bold and say it so often that people will start to believe it. It has also come up this week in interviews with Barbara McQuade in advance of the release of her book Attack From Within: How Disinformation Is Sabotaging America

Trump's folks are trying to change the rules that the state set - what has to be proved to remove a prosecutor, instead suggesting that a hint of impropriety, without evidence, is enough to remove her. Trump will use this move every step of every trial if he gets away with it here.

From MSNBC: The Fani Willis courtroom drama was a distraction from the real crime
Defense attorneys failed to prove their claims of prosecutorial misconduct as they sought to help their clients avoid accountability.

Don’t be fooled. The drama televised from a Georgia courtroom into the homes of millions of Americans over the past few weeks is not a serious attempt to clear Donald Trump’s name. Instead, you should see it for what it is: another act of deflection by Trump and his enablers. . . . Under Georgia law, there are two ways a prosecuting attorney can be disqualified from a case: 1) a conflict of interest, or 2) forensic misconduct. The latter has not been alleged and Team Trump has done a terrible job of proving the former even exists. So why are we even here? Because Trump, his former chief of staff, a number of his attorneys and local officials attempted to undo his 2020 election loss in Georgia.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 03:24 PM

I watched an episode on Oz ABC TV last night called If You're Listening : Is Donald Trump Running Out Of Money?

That link is for the audio podcast but the If You're Listening - video page version could get uploaded soon. It's only a 15 minute show.

A couple of interesting points for me were that a graph shows that Biden's campaign funds are on the up and Trump's are way way down, and also that on top of his legally imposed penalties amounting to about half a billion dollars Trump's legal fees were approx $US50 million in 2023.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 04:59 PM

That's why he's trying to take over the RNC - so their dollars can pay his legal bills. They can't pay the penalty, but anything he can fob off on someone else is a win as far as the Donald is concerned. Brand Trump.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 05:11 PM

Is the RNC likely to let him walk all over them? And Brand Trump was also explained in that episode.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 05:32 PM

He's already done it - he's proposing putting his daughter-in-law in the co-chair position. She knows nothing about fundraising or political strategy, and the committee is supposed to support all Republican candidate races that meet a certain threshold. That will go by the wayside.

Inside the GOP Fight Over Trump’s Mounting Legal Costs

Drafted by Henry Barbour, an RNC member from Mississippi, the measure comes as Trump marches closer to solidifying the Republican presidential nomination and seeks to install new loyalists to lead the organization. That includes his daughter-in-law, Lara Trump, who has previously said she was willing to funnel some of the group’s funds toward Trump’s multi-million-dollar stack of legal fees.

But after Barbour released his resolution over the weekend, both Lara Trump and the Trump campaign adamantly denied any such plans. The Republican National Committee, they say, will remain narrowly focused on Trump’s election and helping GOP candidates win up and down the ballot.

But the only "down-ballot" folks to see anything from the RNC will be the ones Trump approves.

Nikki Haley calls for RNC vote on resolution barring payment of Trump's legal fees
The former U.N. ambassador has been focusing in on Trump, his legal trouble and the potential general election consequences.

Trump co-campaign manager Chris LaCivita — whom Trump plans to install at the RNC along with other loyalists, including his daughter-in-law, following the resignation of longtime chair Ronna McDaniel — previously told reporters that the RNC would not be paying for Trump's legal fees, but Haley campaign officials have not trusted the statement.

Haley went on to question if the RNC would end up shifting support from down-ballot Republicans to a “legal slush fund.” . . . . RNC members will meet in Houston in early March to select a new chair and potentially vote on resolutions including two put forward by a Mississippi committee member, Henry Barbour. One focuses on slowing the RNC from coordinating with a presidential candidate until the candidate meets the delegate threshold to win the nomination. The other one would prohibit the committee from paying any candidate's legal fees.

RNC at 'high risk' of breaking the law by paying Trump's legal bills: expert

With the imminent departure of chair Ronna McDaniel and plans by the former president to load the leadership up with MAGA loyalists like his daughter-in-law Lara Trump, concerns have been raised by Republicans that the RNC would become another cash cow for the embattled ex-president while ignoring GOP officeholders going into the November election.

According to a report from Politico's Erica Orden, election finance experts are serving notice to the RNC to tread carefully when it comes to paying Trump's bills.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 06:01 PM

Thanks for the info, SRS. I'm a bit confused. Is Trump still just proposing Lara Trump for the RNC or is she already there?

Another interesting thing on the Oz TV show was a brief, tantalising comment which implied that Trump could try to sell some of his NY assets to pay his legal obligations but then he's kind of caught between a rock and a hard place, presumably because the sale prices probably won't match the inflated prices he has been found guilty of creating. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, I suspect.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 07:48 PM

Speaking of Aussie PMs, Malcolm Turnbull was on US TV yesterdsay observing that Trump's deference to Putin is "creepy" and like some kind of weird hero worship. Trump is "in awe" of Vlad.

Turnbull also reported that all the leaders of allied nations he's met are highly concerned that America will soon be a "third great autocracy" after Russia and China.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 24 - 08:31 PM

Helen that second article describes the status of the party leadership right now, an meeting in Houston, TX early this month is where it will be hammered out.

Tonight on Washington Week with the Atlantic they speculated on how Trump will go back and forth from the courtroom to the campaign trail. He'll be very busy.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 02 Mar 24 - 02:56 AM

SRS, the reason I am confused is that "Trump plans [or seeks] to install at the RNC" certain people who are loyal to him, so planning to or seeking to do it implies it is not done yet, but the implication seems to be that it will happen, or that it has already happened,i.e. it is already a fait accompli.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Mar 24 - 12:31 PM

That's it in a nutshell.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 24 - 01:23 PM

You could have just said Lara is stupidly in charge.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 02 Mar 24 - 01:31 PM

I'll say this diplomatically, but I prefer our compulsory voting with one vote for one person system here in Oz, and that we have more than two political parties, and that we do not invest power in one person as president, and that election of that one person doesn't depend on how much campaign money that person has to spend. Every federal electorate votes for the person who appears to be able to do the best for that area and who has to reside in that area to be eligible to run for office.

There, I've said it, sorry, but I promise I won't go on about it. :-)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Mar 24 - 04:31 PM

Helen, the two-party system wasn't legislated, it simply evolved. Third parties occasionally run candidates but usually lose. There were four parties/candidates running for president in 1860. Lincoln won, but almost two-thirds of voters voted against him. For many practical reasons, third party presidential candidates rarely generate much interest, though they can certainly influence the outcome of an election by drawing off voters from one (or both) of the others, sometimes predictably - which makes them dangerous if cynically financed by mega-donors to one of the other parties.

It would be nice if the federal government gave each candidate an equal sum of money to run on, while forbidding any other funds to be used. But Congress would never approve such a plan, because each party thinks it will gain a decisive edge by raising more money.

The 2010 Supreme Court decision "Citizens United v. FEC" now allows corporations and "political action committees" to donate unlimited funds to the candidates of their choice. Their reasoning was that campaign contributions are a form of free speech. The result, of course, is that mega-donors now influence the parties and candidates as never before, often giving huge amounts to both sides, so that no matter who wins, they'll still have plenty of influence. Nor must the parties reveal the specific sources of many such contributions.

Power in the U.S. isn't invested in one person (yet), though it's easy to think so, since the president gets credit and blame for everything that happens.

As for the electoral college, its flaws are becoming ever more obvious. I doubt much will be done about it in the so-called "foreseeable" future, however.

Compulsory voting doesn't appeal to me. It makes every fool who doesn't care and who would prefer to stay home is made cast a vote almost at random. There are enough fools voting already.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 02 Mar 24 - 05:31 PM

Thanks Lighter.

One of the pitfalls I have noticed with non-compulsory voting is that a lot of people need to be motivated to go to the polls and make a choice but are dissuaded by either negative media coverage or social media campaigns, or by the difficulty of voting mid week for people who are not able to lose time at work (i.e. read between the lines, people who have lower incomes and less power in their workplaces). Our voting is on Saturdays and we have had postal pre-voting in place for decades.

In Oz, we always have one or the other of the two major parties in power, but the minor parties who have members elected tend to have a chance to keep the major parties a bit more honest and on track. That works especially well when the party in power is teetering on the brink, with a very small majority. They need the negotiating power of collaborating with minor parties then. (Although, having said that, we do have a couple of nutjob minor parties and most major parties would rather jump off a cliff than negotiate with them, IMHO.)

"..electoral college, its flaws are becoming ever more obvious. I doubt much will be done about it in the so-called "foreseeable" future.."

I'm guessing it's in the same "too-hard basket" as firearm reforms. :-D

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Mar 24 - 05:21 AM

If voting is compulsory then there should be a "none of the above" option as a protest vote to express dissatisfaction at what is on offer. Otherwise, the only other ways would be to turn up and spoil the ballot paper or vote for a ridiculous candidate, if available, who has no chance of getting in.

In the UK, we have the Monster Raving Loony Party who stand against major players in the main parties for the publicity. With the current state of UK politics, if voting was compulsory, there would be a danger of the MRLP being asked to form the next government.

In 1973, the Progress Party became the second largest party in the Danish parliament. They proposed to replace the entire Ministry of Defence by an answering machine with the recorded message "We surrender" in Russian.

DC

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Mar 24 - 05:29 AM

I liked the MRLP's policy on defence.

They would paint all de fences white so no-one could sit on them

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 03 Mar 24 - 07:10 AM

> nutjob minor parties

We have rather too many of those in the UK; worse, one of them's firmly embedded in the Tories. But that sub-discussion belongs elsewhere.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Mar 24 - 07:50 AM

It would take a Constitutional amendment to eliminate the electoral college.

Not impossible, but the process takes some years. It would be more likely to pass, however, than any Constitutional tweaks to the Second Amendment.

I was surprised to learn that the United States is now the only democracy to retain an electoral college.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 24 - 08:11 AM

Lighter we came damn close to getting rid of the electoral college many moons ago but it could still happen in our future.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Mar 24 - 11:21 AM

The trouble with all of the pressure by "Democrats" saying that Biden is too old (yet only a couple of years older than Trump) is that this is the pressure from Trump's troops pretending to poll as Democrats and from Russia making these claims on behalf of unnamed Democrats. It turns up as a result in polls of Democrats, but at this point there is no other candidate who can stand up to him and so what? We will set another record for oldest president this time around.

Getting people off of that Trump-funded anti-Biden mantra and onto the crap that Trump has pulled and says he will pull is the only way to get out in front of the AI and misinformation. This is when people have to step back and take a look at the big picture.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 03 Mar 24 - 12:43 PM

About polling, I have heard commentaries that some voters see supposed polling information indicating that their preferred candidate is not doing well and then are discouraged from voting, thinking their vote will not make a difference and not change the outcome. Every vote counts.

Doug, in Oz the voting statistics usually show very low informal vote, and slightly more donkey votes. The statistical tables show mostly less than 5% of all votes on both categories combined.

Definition: Informal vote

"The figures show that nearly half of all informal votes were the result of some kind of incorrect numbering. This suggests that these informal votes were accidental. Similarly, another quarter of all informal votes contained ticks and crosses, suggesting confusion about the voting system.

"Blank ballots and those with writing on them made up 26% of informal votes. These are most likely to have been deliberate."

"Definition: A donkey vote occurs when an elector simply numbers the ballot paper from top to bottom (or bottom to top) without regard to the logic of the preference allocation.

"A donkey vote is counted as a valid vote because it contains a number “1” and has numbered every square in sequential order."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 04 Mar 24 - 05:32 AM

Nikki Haley won 63% against Trump's 33% in the Washington DC Primary. One of the news articles also said she is the first woman to win a primary.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Mar 24 - 06:06 AM

One of the news articles also said she is the first woman to win a primary.

..... the first woman to win a Republican primary. Hilary Clinton won enough to secure the Democratic nomination.

DC

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Mar 24 - 10:14 AM

SCOTUS's unanimous decision:

Without a Congressional resolution, Trump stays on all ballots.

They did not rule on whether he engaged insurrection.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 04 Mar 24 - 12:02 PM

Yep, thanks Doug. I had that thought as soon as I hit the submit button, but...I didn't go back and add it to my post. Sorry.

"the first woman to win a Republican primary"

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Mar 24 - 12:28 PM

In his second term Biden is going to have to pack the court to neutralize the trio that Trump and McConnell foisted upon the nation. It's the kind of thing you don't do in your first term. It would also help if the house and senate are Democratic with more than a razor thin majority.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 04 Mar 24 - 12:55 PM

Super Tuesday! Let's see what this day brings! Maybe Hayley's Washington DC win could influence other Republican primaries.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Mar 24 - 03:05 PM

The three liberal justices wrote a dissent that was still lumped as a concurrence with the others. The Court has said the Congress has to legislate to solve this problem, but the Constitution doesn't say that. The end result is that states can't kick federal candidates off of the ballot. For now.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Mar 24 - 05:15 PM

A "dissenting opinion" is a dissent. A "concurring opinion" concurs but questions some of the details.

The decision was indeed unanimous, 9-0. The issue addressed in the opinion by the liberals is why Congress alone (and not a federal judge) can declare a national candidate disqualified.

I can think of a reason, but I'm not a lawyer, so I'll keep it to myself.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 05 Mar 24 - 01:03 AM

Sinéad O'Connor's estate joins a long list of artists demanding Donald Trump stop using their music

"In between a myriad of court appearances, US presidential hopeful Donald Trump has been holding political rallies and campaign events, sound-tracked by popular songs.

"One of those songs is Sinéad O'Connor's trademark hit Nothing Compares 2 U, and the late musician's estate is not happy about it.

"In a joint statement, O'Connor's estate and her record label, Chrysalis, demanded the Republican 'desist from using her music immediately'.

"It said the Irish singer, who died last year aged 56, 'lived by a fierce moral code defined by honesty, kindness, fairness and decency towards her fellow human beings'.

"'It was with outrage therefore that we learned that Donald Trump has been using her iconic performance of Nothing Compares 2 U at his political rallies,' the statement said.

"'It is no exaggeration to say that Sinéad would have been disgusted, hurt and insulted to have her work misrepresented in this way by someone who she herself referred to as a biblical devil.'"

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 05 Mar 24 - 03:23 AM

That article also mentions other musicians or groups - or their estates - who have tried to prevent Trump from using their songs in his campaign events, including REM vocalist Michael Stipe and REM bassist Mike Mills, Rihanna, Linkin Park, John Fogerty, Neil Young, Leonard Cohen, and George Harrison.

My first thought when I read the headline about Sinéad O'Connor was that her moral views would be totally opposite to Donald Trump's and this quote confirmed that for me:

"...lived by a fierce moral code defined by honesty, kindness, fairness and decency towards her fellow human beings".

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 24 - 06:34 AM

The Court has ruled that a State may now legally send an insurrectionist to Congress.

They took the front tooth out of the 14th amendment.
Now Congress would have to make a law to keep an insurrectionist from holding federal office. The Court looks like Alfred E Newman to me.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Mar 24 - 08:01 AM

As I understand it, state's can still disqualify "oath-breaking insurrectionists" from state and local ballots.

The court's opinion regards national candidates only.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 24 - 04:48 PM

Congressmen and Senators hold a legislative federal office. The way the decision was written sort of updos part of the intent of the post-Civil War amendment.

North Carolina has a lieutenant governor running for governor who is a leader of the KKK. States can be as nutty as they want. I want to see better protection for federalism.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Mar 24 - 10:36 AM

Trump won all but Washington, D.C. and the Vermont primaries so far, and this morning Haley "suspended" her campaign. The commentators on MSNBC were talking about her approach to saying in essence that Trump has to earn her vote, and also that (having read her book before this campaign) her role model is Margaret Thatcher. So that pretty much tells you what we'd get if she were to be elected.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Mar 24 - 10:52 AM

Not as bad as Tr*mp, but plenty bad enough.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 06 Mar 24 - 01:31 PM

Although Haley would not get my vote if I lived in the U.S., I think that she has achieved one of her goals of showing the voters that there is an alternative to Trump. I don't think that she said everything she would have liked to say about him, and I suspect she was trying not to get his supporters offside while chasing votes. I think she is setting herself up as a possible candidate if Trump gets convicted on some of his serious charges or for the next election. I'm basing my opinions on the comments and opinions expressed in the Oz TV show Planet America, on the (Oz) ABC News coverage and on the Washington Week with the Atlantic TV show.

I also think that her chances of success were reduced because she is a woman and I suspect a lot of male and some female voters cannot conceive of a woman being President.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: skarpi
Date: 06 Mar 24 - 02:04 PM

Nikki is out, so god help us.
Nikki Haley was the only person
Who should be President.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 24 - 04:21 PM

There are many fools
who say what is expedient
walks it back the next day
and wants it both ways
as long as their lies
preserve white rule.


To correct Nikki;
there was slavery here
book burning is bad in any form
voting for Trump is not a foregone conclusion
Culture war and identity politics are totally toxic

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 24 - 05:55 PM

I mentioned how the House can perform a legal Constitutional coup.
In conjunction with that is the Republican disqualification laws that allow a private citizen to send a postcard demanding a reply or be eliminated at the polls since the postcard not being returned is considered proof of nonresidency.

It worked on me so I could not vote against W the second time.
Its an old trick but is now appearing in most States.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 24 - 05:33 PM

If you are not political now and Trump seizes power, every aspect of your life will be political just to keep your lights on.
Businesses like utilities nationalized under Trump loyalty is a typical tool of authoritarianism.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Mar 24 - 12:35 AM

Intel agencies eye brief for Trump, amid fears he could spill secrets
It’s standard practice to share classified information with presidential nominees, but the decision to brief Trump if he becomes the GOP nominee this year is loaded with political and potentially legal risks.

The briefings, which are managed by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and approved by the White House, normally take place after the national conventions in late summer.

It’s unclear when Trump’s trial will take place or whether the case will be decided before the election.

Several current and former intelligence and national security officials who spoke with POLITICO said the normally humdrum decision was fraught with unusual risk this year due to the pending court case and Trump’s historically cavalier attitude toward national security information.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 24 - 05:15 PM

If you want to know who is really behind the anti democratic forces in America, you are in for a treat: Noam Chomsky

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Mar 24 - 05:50 PM

What did you intend to share? That was a commercial for an ambulance company.

Meanwhile, Ex-chief of staff criticizes Trump for Hitler talk.

Retired Gen. John Kelly, who served as White House chief of staff in the Trump administration, recounted several conversations where former President Trump spoke favorably about Adolf Hitler, saying the Nazi leader had done “some good things” and had inspired loyalty within his military.

Kelly spoke about the conversations in an interview with CNN anchor and chief national security analyst Jim Sciutto, who is publishing them as part of a new book, “The Rise of Great Powers.”

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Mar 24 - 03:11 AM

Well, it seems that Tr*mp has succeeded in achieving the ‘Primaries’ stage of his intended return to the White House. The lumberingly-slow US courts had better get a move on and convict him on a few of those 91 charges soon. If they don’t, I’d stake my pension on him becoming #47. A ghastly prospect.

God Help America.

BBC News

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Mar 24 - 08:06 PM

The judge dropped six of the charges in the Georgia trial but left the rest intact.

Judge dismisses some Trump Georgia election subversion charges but leaves most of the case intact

The partial dismissal by Georgia Superior Court Judge Scott McAfee leaves most of the sprawling racketeering indictment intact.

McAfee ruled that six charges in the 41-count indictment related to Trump and some co-defendants allegedly soliciting the violation of oath by a public officer lacked the required detail about what underlying crime the defendants were soliciting.

Trump was named in three of the counts specifically, meaning the former president is now facing 88 charges over the four criminal indictments in Georgia, New York, Washington, DC, and Florida.

The rest at the link.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Mar 24 - 01:54 PM

The judge in the Georgia case seems to have split the difference - Willis can stay if her special prosecutor departs, but it was difficult to hire that special prosecutor because of the notoriety that surrounds any Trump cases. Takeaways from the scathing ruling that allows DA Fani Willis to remain on the Trump election subversion case

Trump is waging a war of attrition - gradually pushing back and knocking off cases, charges, hearings, trials. His appointee in Florida is complying with his wishes by holding frivolous hearings and offering non-decisions that can be challenged later. It's disgusting to watch. And now all of these documents being released in the New York case - NY prosecutors tell judge they’re willing to delay Trump hush money trial until late April

The proposed delay in the New York trial is in order to give Trump’s lawyers time to review new materials turned over by federal prosecutors this week, the DA’s office said.

The US Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York sent about 31,000 pages of discovery material Wednesday and will have more to share, the new filing states.

The DA's office has to look over those papers also, not only the defense attorneys. With turns like this it looks like Trump has plants in that District office who are scoring points with delay and then overwhelm cases close to trial. How difficult would it be to work out such a plan?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Mar 24 - 06:08 AM

Trump could be the next president, as regards foreign policy is he any worse than Biden?,it is possible he might be less of a warmonger

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Mar 24 - 06:22 AM

Rapist, insurrectionist, philanderer, the world's most well-documented liar, one of the lowest ranked U.S. presidents of all time. What's not to like?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Mar 24 - 06:36 AM

...fraud, cheat...

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Mar 24 - 06:37 AM

...lazy, incompetent...

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Mar 24 - 08:15 AM

The claim that Biden is a "warmonger" comes straight from the Trump campaign.

What war has Biden started?

In 2016, Trump told a rally, "In a certain way I *love* war. As long as we're winning."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Mar 24 - 11:12 AM

This thread is to do with Trump's court cases. An occasional redundant reminder of what a horrible human being his is can be thrown in periodically. With the exception of those nations with dictator leaders the rest of the world is scared shitless that Trump could come to power again. I suspect all American ex-pats are urged by the residents of their current countries to be sure to vote for Biden.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 24 - 08:28 AM

So Trump has won the delay game with lawyers, judges, and even Merrit Garland. That is not winning the Presidency. Don't bet your pension.

Americans by in large would rather be citizens than royal subjects.
Trump is one marriage away from King Henry the 8th but he has promised a bloodbath, dictatorship, and treason trials.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Mar 24 - 03:50 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/06/donald-trump-sean-hannity-dictator-day-one-response-iowa-town-hall

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Mar 24 - 10:46 AM

Dick, don't just drop a link, say something. And while you're at it, stay on topic and stop starting new thread that people will fight about.

Back when Trump was first elected and in office in 2017 he bragged about the size of his crowd at the inauguration and fact checkers disagreed. He insisted that all federal agencies toe the line as far as saying anything about his success and prowess attracting crowds or anything else and one little national park (Badlands) in the upper midwest said "nope" and published the photos anyway. At that point all of the "ALT" sites started up - Alt-NPS, Alt-CDC, Alt-USFS, Alt-GOV, Alt-you-name-it. He is fighting tooth and nail to keep himself out of court and from having a federal conviction that would be the clearest sign he can't hold the Presidency. So far it was a single individual, a woman, whose case had him proven to be a sexual predator and a guilty of defamation. Of all the the legal cases against him now, I predict it's going to be a woman making him toe the line and ultimately taking him down. Whether the case about Stormy Daniels or the case in D.C. that Tanya Chutkan is overseeing, someone is going to slip through his legal blockade and nail his ass.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Mar 24 - 11:35 AM

Trump's legal team has alerted the New York court this morning (Mar. 18)that they are unable to obtain the bond or cash for the $450B fine that is due next week (Mar. 25), and want it postponed until after the appeal.

I look forward to reading the list of properties that the state AG is ready to seize.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Mar 24 - 02:36 PM

Trump faces 'insurmountable difficulties' in securing $464M bond in civil fraud case, his attorneys say
Judge Arthur Engoron had ordered Trump to pay $355 million plus interest.
Dated today (March 18)

"Defendants have faced what have proven to be insurmountable difficulties in obtaining an appeal bond for the full $464 million," according to an affirmation by Trump Organization general counsel Alan Garten.

While Garten said Trump is "financially stable" and maintains "substantial assets," the magnitude of the judgment would require him to use his real estate as collateral for the bond. So far, according to Garten's affirmation, no surety bond provider approached by Trump is willing to accept real estate as collateral, including Chubb, the insurance giant underwriting Trump's $91.6 million bond to cover the $83 million judgment in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case, plus interest.

"For Defendants, this presents a major obstacle," Garten wrote.

Trump's attorneys, who have called the judgment "unconstitutionally excessive," asked an appellate court again on Monday to allow Trump to secure a bond in a lesser amount.

Inflating your assets will have this result. He is reaping what he sowed.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 18 Mar 24 - 05:27 PM

> While Garten said Trump is "financially stable"

Was it just me, or did anybody else see the above and hear "stable genius" go *clang* in the backs of their heads :-) ?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 12:52 PM

Trump has a lot of real estate but nowhere near as much as Henry the Eighth did.

He can't convert the property to cash in a week so Trump has re-hired Paul Manifort fresh out of prison to get Russian oligarchy cash like he did before and again manage Donald's election campaign.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Mar 24 - 01:20 PM

There are laws about citizens negotiating with foreign governments; Reagan probably broke the law when he had envoys communicate with Iranians to keep the US hostages until after the inauguration, to deny Carter the success of getting them free before the election. Trump is probably doing a lot of things behind the scenes that should be sussed out now and held against him.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 07:40 AM

Trump is one marriage away from King Henry the 8th

Trump has been married three times. How is this one marriage away from the six wives of Henry VIII?

Trump was found guilty of fraudulently inflating the value of his assets. As you continue to make comparisons between the former President and the Tudor king, Donuelle, is it OK for you to use inflated data are are you just bad at history/sums?

DC

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 11:30 AM

The House of Representatives sideshow is still trying to tar Biden with the same brush as Trump - they are desperate to impeach Biden to say they're just the same. It's an embarrassment, how those toadies are behaving instead of doing the nation's work.

Meanwhile, I read somewhere yesterday that Letitia James might take Mar-a-Lago, but since it's in Florida and they have particular rules about protecting property (mostly from bankruptcy) I question whether that is on her list. (The Florida governor would protest.) She'll have to seize properties IN or registered in New York. (Trump has been moving accounts out in order to protect assets - pundits talk about his inability to plan to pay the inevitable settlements by selling property; his plan has involved moving it and not paying at all.)

Full List of Donald Trump's Properties Letitia James Is About to Take

• Trump Park Avenue, New York, N.Y.
  
• Trump Tower, New York, N.Y.
  
• 40 Wall Street, New York, N.Y.
  
• Seven Springs, Westchester County, N.Y.
  
• Trump International Hotel and Tower, Las Vegas, Nevada
  
• Mar-a-Lago, Palm Beach, Florida
  
• Trump National Golf Club Westchester, Briarcliff Manor, N.Y.
  
• Trump National Golf Club Charlotte, Mooresville, North Carolina
  
• Trump National Golf Club Colts Neck, Colts Neck, New Jersey
  
• Trump National Golf Club, Washington, D.C., Sterling, Virginia
  
• Trump National Golf Club Hudson Valley, Hopewell Junction, N.Y.
  
• Trump National Golf Club Jupiter, Jupiter, Florida
  
• Trump National Golf Club Los Angeles, Rancho Palos Verdes, California
  
• Trump National Golf Club Philadelphia, Pine Hill, New Jersey
  
• Trump International Golf Links Scotland (Aberdeen)
  
• Trump International Golf Links Scotland (Turnberry)
  

There might be agreements with some of the other states, and she might be able to put a hold on the UK properties. We will learn what is possible once we see what she decides to seize. I wonder if all of these would even add up to the amount he owes? It doesn't look like it. A few million here and there, but anything claimed will have encumbrances and taxes and such so a sale will probably reduce by more than half what the state gets from each property.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 01:44 PM

In theory Trump, a private citizen, could get as much as he wants from a Russian oligarch, or a Saudi oligarch, etc., so long as that oligarch is a private citizen and not under U.S. sanction.

Or so says an expert on MSNBC.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 05:22 PM

It depends on if he starts making promises to world leaders about what he will do if elected. That, in my understanding, is illegal.

Meanwhile, the non-esteemed New York Post suggests that Trump will let James grab Trump Tower, but it's probably leveraged and the value, if sold, isn't enough to meet the amount of the penalty. Trump’s failure to secure a bond could put his New York properties on the chopping block (from CNN) looks at other NY buildings also.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 08:02 PM

If he did make promises, or divulge secrets,who would know?

And if they did, how many years before he'd stand trial?

And before all appeals would be exhausted?

Of course, if he's elected, no problemo!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Mar 24 - 10:07 PM

You think Trump can keep a secret about making a deal with a strongman dictator who he admires?

Tonight the discussion of multiple smaller bonds (instead of one massive one that no banking entity will touch) was discussed on a news show. Unless there in an announcement, we're all waiting till Monday to see what happens.

Get the popcorn ready.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 24 - 06:56 PM

Trump's pyrite fool's gold cup runneth empty. In a deposition, he said he had over 400 million cash. Did he lie then or now?

If he gets a loan the donor must overlook that Donnie was just convicted of fraud but most of all his promises are worthless.

Hey buddy can you spare a HALF BIL?


They used to tell me I was building a dream
And so I followed the mob
When there was earth to plow or property to rent
I was always there right on the job
They used to tell me I was building a dream
With cash and glory ahead
Why should I be standing in line
Just waiting for jail?
Once I was railroaded, then I would run
Made a con in real time
Once I built a brick road, now it's done
Brother, can you spare a dime?
Once I built a tower up to the sun
Brick and rivet and lime
Once I built a tower, now it's done
Brother, can you spare a half bill?
Once in khaki suits, gee we looked swell
Full of that yankee doodly damn
Half a million boots went sloggin' through hell
And I was the kid with the scam
Say, don't you remember, they called me Trump
It was Trump all the time
Why don't you remember, I'm your pal
Say buddy, can you spare a half bill?
Once in swanki suits, ah gee we looked swell
Full of that yankee doodly damn
Half a million suckers went sloggin' through hell
And I was the kid with the scam
Oh, say, don't you remember, they called me the Donald
It was the Donald all the time
Say, don't you remember, I'm your pal
Buddy, can you spare a half bil?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Mar 24 - 08:51 PM

He has until midnight on Monday, March 25, so on Tuesday any liens will be filed by the NY AG.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 21 Mar 24 - 09:44 PM

That's funny, Donuel! LOL

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 08:25 AM

How desperate is Trump for cash, let me count the ways;
He has replaced everyone in the RNC so he can now take his cut for legal defenses before any money goes to the RNC. That way he can say no money from the RNC goes to his defense fund.
He cannot afford all the victim victory rallies he used to have so he may have to charge at the door with a promise of a door prize.
No more free helicopter rides for the kiddies. Instead of country music celebrities, he will have heroes like Rittenhouse at his fewer
rallies. He can't afford all the Facebook ads he used to have so he will rely on Musk's X Posts. Trump might have to secretly place bets against his winning on all the online betting sites. He might even urge his real patriots to make up stories for GoFundMe sites and give him the money. His private airliner will miss crucial maintenance due to cutbacks and possibly strand him in Minnesota. Having to ask his son-in-law for cash could be the final humiliating insult.

This could be the only election where a candidate gets more money from foreign sources than domestic. This is possible because of the Citizens United decision.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 10:41 AM

According to a notification from the New York Times this morning Truth Social just merged with some shell corporation and Trump will get about $300m from that. Finalized today. I found a story about it from The Hill so it should be readable by all.

Digital World shareholders approve merger with Trump’s Truth Social

Shareholders in Digital World Acquisition Corp. (DWAC) approved a merger with former President Trump’s media startup on Friday teeing up Truth Social’s stock market debut and a potential $3.5 billion windfall for Trump.

The long-delayed merger between the blank check company and Trump Media & Technology Group received regulatory approval from the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) last month.

Trump stands to make about $3.5 billion from the deal, given the nearly 79 million shares he would control in the newly merged company.

All of those moving parts. We were looking at the bank accounts and the buildings, forgot about that worthless scourge on the social media world. It seems someone wants it (and the party he merged with must be bigger and nastier than he is.) It will trade on the NY Stock Exchange as DJT. Of course it will.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 10:53 AM

Evidently it will be difficult for Trump to liquefy that bonanza,
and impossible before midnight Monday.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 10:57 AM

This is where he might approach the court and ask for time to liquidate part of the proceeds. It depends on how long (or if he wants to do it. It may be his nest egg for the future.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 11:07 AM

Trump has just announced that he has $500,000,000 in cash.

Origin undisclosed.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 11:39 AM

An NPR article: Trump is on the verge of a windfall of billions of dollars. Here are 3 things to know

I've picked bits out of it but it's a fairly short article and it makes some good points.

"Former President Trump is on the verge of a windfall of billions of dollars — but it may not come soon enough to help him fend off his mounting legal problems."

,,,

"But the process of listing Trump Media has been a rather convoluted saga, much like the business and political career of the former president, marked by investigations, lawsuits and general chaos."

...

"All eyes are on the Digital World shareholders

"The vote by Digital World shareholders should be simple.

"If the shareholders of the shell company do approve the deal, Digital World would become Trump Media in the stock markets as early as next week, trading under the stock symbol DJT, short for Donald J. Trump.

"But Digital World has struggled to find enough shareholders to show up in previous key votes, so there are no guarantees that they can get enough of a quorum on Friday to approve the merger.

"And the process to this point has been far from easy in other ways. Digital World has also faced scrutiny from the Securities and Exchange Commission, and it has also faced lawsuits from key shareholders that are still pending.

"Trump stands to earn billions

"If enough Digital World shareholders approve the deal, the windfall for Trump could be big.

"Trump would own over 50% of the new merged company, a stake that would be worth over $3 billion at current market valuations.

"Analysts agree those kinds of valuations are far removed from the actual value of Trump Media. Truth Social had just over $3 million in revenue in the first nine months of last year and losses of nearly $50 million."

....

"But Trump might not be able to sell his shares soon

"The potential windfall comes at a time when Trump is in dire need of cash.

"On Monday he needs to post over $400 million in bond to settle a civil fraud case, and Trump has been unable to secure a company to put up the cash.

"However, how soon the former president can cash in on his stake in Trump Media is uncertain.

"Under the current agreement, Trump faces a six-month lock-up period, meaning he won't be able to sell his shares in Trump Media during that period.

"He could, however, try to work out a deal that would allow him to sell some or all of his holdings earlier, though a big sale at once would risk sending Trump Media shares sharply lower.

"Trump could also try to find somebody who would loan him the money using his Trump Media shares as collateral.

"But the Trump Media shares would be trading at above what many analysts think it's actually worth, making it difficult for a lender to justify lending him the money."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 11:56 AM

After reading the NPR article, my main thought is that it's a desperate fire sale: i.e. buyer advantage, vendor disadvantage.

The one thing which the article places possibly in Trump's favour is the potential for it being seen as "meme stock" where Trump's supporters are not looking so much at investing and benefiting financially from that investment but seeing it as a way to support Trump in the political arena, i.e. throwing their money in the ring based on their heart and not their financial reasoning. Alternatively some investors may see it as a quick internet sensation and they will invest and then divest when the popular interest in the shares starts to fall.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 12:22 PM

This will churn through the news cycle today (though right now I see MSNBC is still covering the Israel-slaughtering-Gaza talks and Blinken's visit to Israel today).

The Hill headline: Trump says he has $500 million in cash as lawyers say he can’t post $464M bond

There are mixed messages to parse:

Former President Trump claimed Friday he has nearly $500 million in cash, conflicting with messaging from his attorneys who claim he won’t be able to post the $454 million bond for his civil fraud case.

“THROUGH HARD WORK, TALENT, AND LUCK, I CURRENTLY HAVE ALMOST FIVE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS IN CASH, A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF WHICH I INTENDED TO USE IN MY CAMPAIGN FOR PRESIDENT,” Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform.

Trump criticized New York Judge Arthur Engoron and New York Attorney General Letitia James (D) who he said knew how much money he had on hand and set the penalty in that range on purpose.

Engoron ordered Trump to pay nearly $355 million in penalties plus interest after finding he conspired to lie about his net worth to receive favorable treatment from banks and insurers. The total sum is now worth more than $454 million with $112,000 in interest added each day.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 05:27 PM

Like I said did he lie at the deposition or is he lying now.
In politics cash is like mother's milk. More important is life itself. Most individuals probably have no real idea how many political assassination attempts have been plotted and put into effect with various results in the United States. Many people may remember the U.S. Presidents who were assassinated, but there were a number of other attempts against political leaders, some successful, others only partially so. Nine American presidents have been targeted while in office. Andrew Jackson was the first U.S. political figure to have been officially recognized as the target of an assassin. Due to the widespread impact of the Civil War and Reconstruction, most people know the basic outlines of the assassination of Abraham Lincoln, and may recall the successful attempts on James A. Garfield, and William McKinley. Some may recall the failed attempt on the
life of President Harry S. Truman, which occurred while the White House was undergoing extensive renovation and he was residing in Blair House in 1950. Almost everyone is aware of the basic circumstances surrounding the murder of John F. Kennedy in 1963. In addition, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan were all targeted by would be assassins. A review of the violence against American political leaders reveals Franklin D. Roosevelt being targeted when he was President-Elect, but not yet sworn in, in 1933. Three presidential candidates were targets, Theodore Roosevelt, Robert F. Kennedy, and George C. Wallace were all shot while campaigning for votes. Of course, other figures in politics have been targeted. Martinez counts eight governors, seven U.S. senators, nine members of the U.S. House of Representatives, eleven mayors, seventeen state legislators, and eleven judges who have been victims of political assassinations or attempts. This does not count the shooting attempt on several U.S. House members practicing on a ball field recently.
Journal of Strategic Security, Vol. 11, No. 1
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/jss/vol11/iss1/6
DOI: https://doi.org/10.5038/1944-0472.11.1.1665

We know the CIA is a lawless branch of government. You can assume this discussion has happened regarding the 24 election.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 05:39 PM

1 in 5 Presidents face these existential dire threats and therefore is a rational part of a candidate's risk.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 06:23 PM

That was taking the long way around to hint at something that never ever needs to be uttered out loud.

The afternoon pundits suggest that by Trump announcing this deal and all of the cash he has, while the lawyers are trying to come up with a bond or something before 12:01am March 26 means that either he's going to have to put the cash down (and poor little Donald, not use it for his campaign) or admit he lied and he doesn't have the cash.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 22 Mar 24 - 07:16 PM

Just as I imagined: hoist by his own petard! Publicly, with nowhere to run and hide. Funny!

If a novelist wrote this as fiction it would be panned as unbelievably unlikely in the real world, but here it is IRL. :-D

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 23 Mar 24 - 07:19 AM

Methinks he'd be (or at least sound) much calmer if someone took away his caps-lock key. From this nerd's viewpoint, he honestly reads like he's thinking in Fortran 4. (I leave making the connection with Monopoly as an exercise.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Mar 24 - 08:00 AM

Not unexpectedly, the question of whether he "has" the "cash" is more complicated than it sounds:


https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-stares-down-first-derailment-100029573.html

Takeaway: even if he has it, he may not be able to use it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Mar 24 - 04:57 PM

Agent Orange announced today, to a crowd in Dayton OH, that ‘Biden beat Barack Hussein Obama’! WTF?

And he has the temerity to claim that it’s Biden who has dementia…

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 23 Mar 24 - 05:49 PM

Donald Trump is yet to choose a running mate for the US election. Who will he pick as his possible vice-president?

The preamble for the article says, "A gun-loving grandma, a former Democrat and a MAGA frontwoman — who will Donald Trump pick from his long shortlist of running mates? And will his pick be based on strategy or aesthetics?"

The list of potential VP's discussed in the article:
Kristi Noem, Tim Scott, Tulsi Gabbard, Nikki Haley, Tucker Carlson, Vivek Ramaswamy, and some others.

[Tucker Carlson?? OMG!]

My bet is he'll pick a woman with a style and looks to which he is attracted. He's not so good on choosing and consistently following through on strategy, IMO.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Mar 24 - 07:13 PM

He should pick somebody who's so much worse than he is that he'll never be impeached again.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Mar 24 - 07:43 PM

I find it really hard to believe he would have a woman for a running mate, for some reason.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 23 Mar 24 - 09:40 PM

Well keb, my bet is that he would choose her to look good next to him in photos, rather than her fantastic political abilities. LOL

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Mar 24 - 01:47 AM

Well somebody has to look good in photos, and it’s sure as hell not him.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Mar 24 - 02:06 AM

Well BWM, he looks good in this video:

Life Accordion To Trump

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Mar 24 - 02:25 AM

LOL! I’ve seen that before, it creases me up every time! :-)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Mar 24 - 02:32 AM

Me too. Even after 7 years.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 24 - 07:46 AM

Trump bracket

This election has no 11% undecided voters. Instead we have 22% double haters who don't want either guys.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 24 - 11:03 AM

Since these videos appeared Trump has stopped doing this.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Mar 24 - 02:00 PM

I think he has stopped the accordion move too. I did see a clip a few days ago but I think it was an old one, not recent.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 24 - 07:09 AM

Delay has always been Trump's best strategy.
Therefore I see him declaring personal BANCRUPTCY.
That would delay everything including asset seizure by a year or more.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 25 Mar 24 - 01:39 PM

Donald Trump's bond reduced, deadline extended as court delays possible seizure of assets

"A New York court has significantly reduced the amount of money Donald Trump must pay as bond to avoid having his assets seized, and extended the deadline for payment.

"The appeals court has agreed to hold off collection of the former president's $US454 million ($694 million) civil fraud judgment — if he puts up $US175 million ($268 million) within 10 days.

"If he does, it will stop the clock on collection and prevent the state from seizing the presumptive Republican presidential nominee's assets while he appeals.

"The development came just before New York Attorney-General Letitia James was expected to initiate efforts to collect the judgment."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Mar 24 - 03:15 PM

The amount of time he is spending in court and with lawyers is increasing month by month; the idea that the RNC is going to be paying his lawyers must be galling to non-MAGA mainstream Republicans. The down-ballot races this year that won't be supported will push more and more of them from the party.

McConnell was one of those GOP folks who must have imagined that they could easily manipulate Trump to accomplish the things they'd strived for; it's the plot of Sinclair Lewis's 1935 novel It Can't Happen Here. It's what the powerful in Germany thought they could do with Hitler. People who refused to learn from history are in danger of repeating it again.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 24 - 07:24 PM

I am wrong about bankruptcy and a delay of the hush money trial.
I hope I am not wrong about his losing the election.
I believe the bond reduction does not reduce the original judgment but I am on a wrong streak so my crystal ball seems broken.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 25 Mar 24 - 09:42 PM

Would a narcissist declare bankruptcy? It would be a major public declaration of his own financial failure. Narcissists don't declare their failures to the world. And, it would put him in a double bind. He needs to use his available funds for his political campaign but he would not be able to use them if he is declared bankrupt.

Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't! :-D

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Mar 24 - 11:02 PM

The fear is that if they only collect 40% of the amount now that Trump will never honor the rest of the debt. You know he'll resist ever paying it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 26 Mar 24 - 01:19 AM

Of course he'll resist paying it, but the option should still be there to seize some of his assets if necessary. As I understand it, the bond required now is for his appeal to be heard. If he is still found liable after that, he will owe the full amount. If by some divine - or diabolical? - intervention he is found not guilty and therefore not liable, then he can save his money to pay the exorbitant lawyers' fees and the other legal obligations he has already and hopefully will continue to accrue for his other legal cases.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Mar 24 - 11:43 AM

He has to make the appeal soon, he doesn't have a typical 9 months.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 Mar 24 - 01:22 PM

Comment from someone in the New European: The Democrats had better not rely exclusively on the court cases stopping Tr*mp, but had better campaign hard in other more conventional ways. The margin between "we need do nothing" and "there's nothing we can do" looks to me as if it's wearing worryingly thin.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Mar 24 - 02:58 PM

Everyone needs to stop reading polls and giving them credence. They need to campaign as if their lives and livelihoods and the Democracy depend upon it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 24 - 04:24 PM

As preposterous as it sounds Trump says to his TV audience "I am one of you". Well he is if you were given 40 million bucks at 21 and you were pathological.

His Supreme Court is going to blow back on him regarding their abortion decisions.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Mar 24 - 05:17 PM

Remember that Biden won by only something like 100,000 in swing states.

If those states had gone just as narrowly for Trump, he'd be president now.

Never mind the millions more popular votes that Biden got nationally.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Mar 24 - 05:55 PM

Yup. That electoral college and the gerrymandered districts in some of those states both need to go. And the Congress cut off the number of representatives added probably 100 years ago, but for the states with really large populations that makes a lot of work for their elected officials.

Things need fixing, but they won't happen this term, and they won't happen next time if the Senate changes hands or if the House stays with the GOP. All the stars must align (and not so closely that the Joe Manchins of the world can mess everything up.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Mar 24 - 06:28 PM

Here's a rundown of her tenure at MSNBC.

Ronna McDaniel, the onetime head of the Republican National Committee who helped former President Donald Trump spread lies about the 2020 election, was axed from her job at NBC News on Tuesday, just one week after her hiring was announced.

McDaniel was ousted following a meeting of top executives from NBC amid growing backlash to her hiring last week. McDaniel used her position as the RNC chair to spread falsehoods about the 2020 presidential election, and continued calling the election results into question even after thousands of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

“Every one of us knows we can never let what we saw in 2020 happen ever again,” McDaniel said during her party’s summer meeting in August 2021. “Democrats waged war on election transparency, security and integrity — undermining our elections, and we at the RNC are using every tool at our disposal to protect the vote.”

Creative Artists Agency, which helped broker the deal to bring McDaniel on as a political analyst for the network, also cut ties with McDaniel on Tuesday, Variety reported.

There's more at the link. Rachel Maddow spent half of her airtime last night talking about it. If Rachel or Lawrence or Nicole or Joy are unhappy, they aren't going to bite their tongues.

I look forward to learning what kind of brain fart had executives at MSNBC hiring her to begin with.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 04:25 AM

Trump is good at blowing his own trumpet

Subject: RE: Trump SPAM ALERT make america pray again
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 06:51 AM

Trump is now selling altered bibles!
(it includes the Constitution and leather flag)

He is also selling pieces of the suit he was wearing when indicted.

I believe it is against biblical law to alter, amend, or add to the Bible as stated in the book of Ezekiel.

His pieces of suit sale remind me of cutting up and selling the Shroud of Turin or selling crucifixion nails.

His bible sells for $60 plus shipping.
His suit pieces have varied pricing.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 07:55 AM

It's "The only Bible endorsed by President Trump!"


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-selling-god-bless-usa-172605915.html

God has waited a long time for his endorsement.

Recent Trump supporter: "The hand of God is upon him, and he cannot be stopped."

Read more:
https://www.amazon.com/President-Donald-Trump-Son-Man/dp/1977249752

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 08:41 AM

”It's "The only Bible endorsed by President Trump!"

Makes a change from selling snake-oil.

”Recent Trump supporter: “The hand of God is upon him and he cannot be stopped.”

More likely the hand of Satan. Do Americans really fall for this kind of hog-wash?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 09:16 AM

24% will always fall for it.
Be it Alex Jones lying about no kids shot at Sandy Hook just to sell his vitamin supplements or Trump's lies to sell his brand,
there are too many con man bad boys selling their line of lies.
Religion is just the oldest con. Even science and academia sometimes take a page from religion for grant money.

It is possible that you have a figure in which you are willing to sell out, most people do. And they often go dirt cheap.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 09:43 AM

Trump says in one of the blips that it's his favorite book and he has them all around the house.

You can't make up this stuff.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 11:11 AM

Who falls for such bunk?

Smart people, people with poor listening skills, people who believe in self-referenced sources, people who believe a personal acquaintance over a distant source, people who believe in the loudest shouter, and people who hear the most repeated message.

It's easy to have a narrow bandwidth with listening and actual understanding. We have different confirmation biases. It's easy to get sidetracked and miss the point or accept anything at face value.
You are likely to believe anything that you are already conditioned to accept, While hypnosis can be used for brainwashing it falls outside the above parameters.

Anger makes people defensive and blocks interaction except for arguing against a misinterpreted premise.

TRUE LISTENING DOES NOT CREATE COMPLIENCE. It makes for more rational understanding be it a response to a positive or negative narrative.

LISTENING WELL is hard work. It's easier to be lazy.
Poor listening begets more poor listening.

P.T. Barnum said a sucker is born every minute. Thats BS.
Its more complicated than that.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Mar 24 - 11:35 AM

According to U.S. population growth figures, its more like four per minute. (Estimated.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 11:07 AM

I'd have to check Ezekiel, but I know John the Divine put in a "thou shalt not tinker with this text" clause at the end of Revelations. (He may, of course, have been quoting.)

Perhaps the earliest known copyright declaration :-) ? I know the Revised Standard Version was copyrighted by its compilers, with great reluctance, to stop it appearing in altered (per)versions, as had happened in the past.

Meanwhile, back at the point, one of the medieval saints complained that there were enough pieces of the True Cross doing the rounds to make a ship, or perhaps an entire fleet. Methinks there'll be enough pieces of the True Suit going around to clothe a navy.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 11:45 AM

Trump is today trying to get the Georgia case thrown out on the basis of his First Amendment rights. Doesn't matter if he said was a lie, the best remedy, according to his lawyer, is the truth, not prosecution.

Trump Trials Clearinghouse

Trump's Georgia election subversion case faces key hearing - from CNN, it looks like a story that will be updated.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 01:29 PM

I'm starting to see why the religious right believes Trump has divine intervention on his side.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 01:40 PM

Well, Donuel, is that because he is attempting to intervene in the divine text - as MaJoC cleverly said, "altered (per)versions" of the Bible? :-)


US judge backs disbarment of ex-Donald Trump lawyer, John Eastman, for alleged election interference

"In short: A US judge has recommended a former lawyer of then-president Donald Trump lose his California law licence over attempts to keep Mr Trump in power after the 2020 election.

"Joe Eastman faces 11 disciplinary charges in the state bar court stemming from his attempt to create a legal strategy which then-vice president Mike Pence could use to interfere with the certification of President Joe Biden's victory.

"What's next? The judge's recommendation now goes to the California Supreme Court for a final ruling on whether he should be disbarred.

......

"State Bar Court of California Judge Yvette Roland's recommendation, issued Wednesday local time, will go to the California Supreme Court for a final ruling on his disbarment.

"Mr Eastman can then appeal the top court's decision.

"His lawyer, Randall A. Miller, didn't immediately respond to an email from Associated Press seeking comment on the decision.

"Mr Eastman faces separate criminal charges in Georgia in the case accusing Mr Trump and 18 allies of conspiring to overturn the Republican's loss in the state."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 02:55 PM

"They have persecuted this man so much, but he always emerges triumphant."

That's what "many people are saying."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Mar 24 - 05:06 PM

Funny how similar the verbal heft of "persecuted" and "prosecuted," but the one that matters is the second.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 24 - 05:26 AM

btw John Eastman was Judge Clarence Thomas' clerk.
All Thomas interns and clerks share strong racist attitudes.
Clarence insists his staff must share his own attitudes.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 Mar 24 - 07:32 AM

> attempting to intervene in the divine text

I was surprised that the Bible he was holding up on That Photoshoot didn't catch fire. Perhaps it was a copy of the Wicked Bible, which amongst other things happened to omit "not" from "thou shalt not commit adultery".

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 24 - 09:17 AM

Woo Hoo the comedy styling of Steven Colbert and PRESIDENTS Clinton, Obama, and Biden was very funny last night. It should have been televised but some of the jokes about Trump may have been over the top for prime time.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Mar 24 - 09:57 AM

How Trump Paid $100 Million in Legal Fees is a short video with graphs and charts showing how he has been doing it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 24 - 10:20 AM

Con skills with money is one of his best strengths.
Paying off debts with special poker chips was one of his clever cons.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Mar 24 - 10:23 AM

Don I've heard about the event but video wasn't allowed by participants - is Biden releasing clips? I'd love to see the end with all of the aviator glasses. (Trump must be seething. Good.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 24 - 12:50 PM

500!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 24 - 06:36 PM

Your best post ever.

Trump is competing in his golf course tournament. Biden said Trump should get 3 free birdies if he carries his own bag.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Mar 24 - 07:34 PM

It doesn't look like Trump is expanding his base even with Bannon's help by claiming a top priority is to jail Democrats and immigrants in jails/camps. Broken people love other broken people but there are only so many broken people. Broken people do make good prison guards in a cathartic way.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Mar 24 - 08:14 PM

"Broken people love other broken people but there are only so many broken people. Broken people do make good prison guards in a cathartic way."

Could some nice person kindly explain this last post to me?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 12:30 AM

Trump's followers are broken and they love to support each other in their evil endeavors. There was a famous case in the US of Crystal Mason, from the county where I live, who was absurdly charged, sentenced, and threatened with five years of prison for voting. She had previously served time but thought she had fulfilled all of the requirements to regain her voting rights. The GOP politicians in Texas have hounded and harassed her since 2016. By being charged (even though she wasn't guilty) she had to return to prison to serve more time from the earlier conviction; she shouldn't have had to do that. And then she was out on a bond all of this time while her case was on appeal. This is those broken GOP folks doing everything they can to torment people like Mason who is both Black and a Democrat. Texas appeals court overturns Crystal Mason’s conviction, 5-year sentence for illegal voting.

You can AND SHOULD simply ignore the posts you don't like or understand or because you have a bone to pick with who started it. Move along, there is nothing to see here. Steve Shaw got kicked out for fighting and is not coming back. Don't follow his example.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 03:23 AM

Trump is favopurite to be next president

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 07:00 AM

Thank you for your explanation SRS.

As for your comment "You can AND SHOULD simply ignore the posts you don't like or understand" I was brought up and educated to ask questions all the time. Not to do so would result in ignorance, a state that is far too prevalent.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 07:17 AM

favopurite sounds like a hand sanitizer.
The woman who was imprisoned for voting did not even cast a real ballot. She voted on a provisional ballot which is not counted.
She was basically guilty of voting while black.

Perhaps you do not see an actual Trump supporter below the line here.
Because of extreme cancel culture woke liberalism they have each been eliminated and in some cases have subsequently died. A moderator would claim it is done to eliminate conflict or danger. Having different points of view is a given but putting a POV into social media has led to death threats, violence, and mayhem. A different liberal would argue that they would fight to preserve free speech even for political cultists or Nazis. It is an unsettled debate but it does have an element of extremism on both sides. For a nongovernmental entity, true free speech is not a Constitutional guarantee, so case closed.

Here is an example of dangerous; words, drawings and documents.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 07:58 AM

And there's this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/28/georgia-republican-illegal-voting/

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 11:56 AM

Sandman, you're reading your unreliable UK news. You folks need to stop telling Americans what you fear most - we're working to prevent it and your constant harping is just annoying. Don't jinx us. There is a lot of nuance in the political churn here that you aren't privy to.

Yup, Lighter, most of the actual cases of illegal votes are coming from the GOP side of the ledger. Here in Texas, Mason should be planning a lawsuit for the lost time, jobs, and extra incarceration she was subjected to.

And yes, Don, the ACLU has landed on the wrong side of a couple of recent battles, when the GOP person claiming their speech rights were violated was attempting to do real harm with their claims or lies.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 12:11 PM

So, people on an obscure folk music forum are working to prevent Trump becoming president?

He must be quaking in his boots...

Maenwhile our unreliable UK news and news from the rest of the world (Try Al Jazeera for instance) is telling us we should be really worried. Sorry if that doesn't fit with the Mudcat view :-(

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 02:50 PM

I am certain that SRS is referring to the American voters who will decide in November.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 02:53 PM

Polls have just become another source of disinformation.
In 2016 Trump polls said he was 12% ahead. He wasn't.
This is an era not unlike McCarthyism when people will not respond truthfully when asked a political question because of a fear of exposure or retribution. It is hard to know who is doing the asking.

Even if a poll is named Honest Injun I don't know how truthful it is.




Rhetorically there are different meanings and inclusions of the word 'we'. There is a universal we, a corporate we, and a personal we. ...and this little piggy went we we we all the way home.
then there is wee wee. I hope we are above questioning what the meaning of is is.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 03:50 PM

More accurately the little pig went wee, wee, wee all the way home.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 04:39 PM

James Carville says there is a double hater vote and F it all voters that could go to a 3rd candidate. Biden doesn't have many F it all voters but Trump probably does. So if a third candidate does get in all the states it probably won't hurt Biden that much.

F it all is not to be confused with the SNL pharmaceutical Fukital.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 05:35 PM

When the US senate was in GOP hands McConnell stacked the judicial deck as much as he could. What McConnell did to the US was leave it vulnerable to the machinations of the Trump and Federalist Society ilk. Watching all of the moving parts is where Americans are focused, those who want to shore up the US Democracy. If we end up with a three-fer, with Biden, a Democratic Senate and a Democratic House (each of the two later with enough of a majority to work past the nutcases who would burn the house down), some of these things must get fixed. And the Supreme Court will gain at least two more members.

We're not looking to Al Jazeera for strategy in the US elections. They are helpful when telling us how Israel is misbehaving (something the US also needs to address - Netanyahu must go - to prison.) The Guardian and BBC are in my news feed on a couple of social media, but usually if one hits a link to other UK papers or sites it is sensational stuff to do with the royal family or some lamebrain thing Piers Morgan has uttered. What UK news source offers a better outlook on US politics than a range of mainstream US papers? I await your list.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 24 - 06:35 AM

I don't think that any of them offer anything better but they do offer US news that is equal to your own newspapers. They all have correspondents that live and work in the States and ensure that the reports from them are an accurate reflection of what is actually going on. The focus of UK media will inevitably have a UK bias but that does not make them unreliable. For your information the BBC and ITV news are pretty factual as are most newspapers. The ones I would not rely on and fall in the sensationalist category are, in my opinion, the Sun, the Daily Mail and the Daily Mirror. The Times and the Telegraph are pretty right wing but generally report facts. The Guardian and the Independent are probably the most unbiased.

And sorry you had to wait for the reply but the time difference meant I have been asleep for most of it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 24 - 08:33 AM

I forgot the Daily Express which is another rag.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Mar 24 - 10:05 AM

Thanks for that rundown of the options. This is what I see when I search for ITV. It looks like it's a television or radio channel there? Probably works a lot like National Public Radio with it's website - the stories on the page are often the transcriptions of the story you can listen to. It also offers an upgrade - is that ad free or something else?

One that has promoted itself over here via YouTube is Sky News. Where do they land in accuracy and leanings?

I grew up near the US/Canada border and used to watch Canadian channels all of the time, but am out of the habit. It looks like the news blockage doesn't go both ways, I can see and read CBC. (Before we lost gnu I was in the habit of copying whole articles and pasting them into messages so he could read them, after that law last year started blocking US news content.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 24 - 10:16 AM

BBC is the national TV station, owned by the government and funded by TV licence fees so ad free. ITV is independent and funded by advertising revenue so was the first alternative to the BBC. There are now others such as channel 4 and channel 5 which encompass a whole gamut of other independent channels. Sky and Sky news is owned by Rupert Murdoch and while it is not as biased as Fox, I would be careful of any editorial comment from them.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 31 Mar 24 - 10:23 AM

Personally, I get my news from the satire shows (The News Quiz, the late lamented Now Show) on the Bee, and the New European, on a weekly basis. The daily news feeds concentrate on the froth on top of the wave; I'd prefer to keep tabs on the tide underneath both.

Climate is what you expect; weather is what you get.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Mar 24 - 10:25 AM

That's what I wondered about. Rupert Murdoch is one I avoid; his version of news isn't good for anyone.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Mar 24 - 12:38 PM

The Independent and The i Newspaper are the ones I regard as being the best for impartiality, and those are the ones I (mostly) read and trust. Also I’m inclined towards the Guardian - although I have less faith in its impartiality, its political bias is the right way (Left, actually!) for my taste.

For TV news, I’m pretty trusting of Channel Four News, which seems to have wider scope than BBC News. The BBC is, of course, headed up by a number of rabid Tory supporters so, although it’s supposed to be impartial, I strongly suspect a bias towards the Right.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 31 Mar 24 - 01:08 PM

As I would have continued before I suffered contributus interruptus ....

The Beeb is supposed to be impartial. Sadly, there's a tendency for it to lean in the direction of whichever party happens to be in power in the Commons, as it knows which side its licence fees are buttered on. Then there's the perception problem: whichever side is in opposition will perceive, loudly, that the Beeb leans towards the side in power. (In particular, when Labour are in power, the Tory press goes rabid.) And that's before we consider who appoints the Director General.

Well noted about Channel Four, BWM. I'd see that more if they did a rolling-news channel .... but then they'd get noticed more, and draw unwelcome attention.

PS: Point of order: Who was it that said that the fourth estate was a fifth column? a masterfully mixed metaphor.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 24 - 05:06 PM

In case you had not realised, ITV stands for Independent TeleVision. Its news is ITN - Independent Television News. Which gave us the original "news at ten" programme. A very good and impartial in depth news piece.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Apr 24 - 03:28 PM

The Economist is also a good source for factual news but you are limited to the number of articles you can open

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Apr 24 - 04:17 PM

Since Trump was able to smear Fani Willis in Georgia, he's moving on to the next case and trying to smear the daughter of the judge in the New York fraud case. If he can get some hearings based upon his lies, delays might happen. The gag order needs to be tightened.

It has been suggested that Trump is being so aggressive toward Merchan's daughter because if he is found in contempt of court, Trump can appeal that. Another delay.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 01 Apr 24 - 04:47 PM

I saw a brief mention of Trump spreading dirt on Joe Biden by posting an image from the side of a truck of Mr Biden hog tied. Will he get charged with inciting violence on social media? I hope he does.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Apr 24 - 05:47 PM

Be it, religion, Wall Street, or the rule of law Trump has used each in a perverse and reverse way to rule the day.

He is the money changer selling religious souvenirs AND the Christ indicted for our sins.

Truth Social stock is being deliberately overvalued for the benefit of a rich guy. Game Stop was deliberately overvalued for the small investor.

The laws and statutes for the protection of a fair court and accused are being used for abject delay. Justice delayed is justice denied.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Apr 24 - 06:13 PM

Oh, and there is always celebrating freedom and liberty
by removing both.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 02 Apr 24 - 08:32 AM

Truth Social's stock price valuation has fallen 20%, according to BBC Red Button. What it's truly worth .... I couldn't possibly comment. The look on Tr*mp's face: priceless.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Apr 24 - 03:22 PM

It is reported that his gag order has been expanded following his attack on the judge's daughter. I dunno how or what effect it will have.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Apr 24 - 12:05 AM

We all await the decisions of so many judges. It appears the next bit of drama (possibly before the New York trial starts) is the Justice Department moving to take Judge Cannon off of the Florida documents case. She is doing everything to favor Trump and appears ready to set the date and start a trial, only to dismiss it. If she does that, then the Justice Department can't re-charge him. So they have to take it away from her, now that she appears to be unable or unwilling to do her job.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 24 - 03:56 AM

Trump is not boring. He is America's Citizen Kane.
Always a paradox, always the narcissist.
Biden wears the white hat and is always honest to his duty and faithful to love. Not as interesting is he?

We expect the Trump story to end in tragedy. It revolves around power and is hard to look away.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 24 - 09:04 AM

Trump appeal is far more evident with men than women.
There are a few glaring exceptions like Judge Cannon.

Come Monday I will be chased by a Moonshadow, Moonshadow Moonshadow.
There will be folks who lose their eyes
staring straight until they cry...

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 24 - 06:59 AM

The most eye opening documentary on Netflix this year is Anti Social Media. IT is the most compelling but simple explanation of the rise of TRUMP via the internet. It began with nothing to do with him.

I came late to seeing fascism on 4 Chan and other sites. I now have an overview of the entire unfolding of our current situation.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Apr 24 - 01:41 PM

From The Guardian,

Trump’s bizarre, vindictive incoherence has to be heard in full to be believed
Excerpts from his speeches do not do justice to Trump’s smorgasbord of vendettas, non sequiturs and comparisons to famous people

Trump’s tone, as many have noted, is decidedly more vengeful this time around, as he seeks to reclaim the White House after a bruising loss that he insists was a steal. This alone is a cause for concern, foreshadowing what the Trump presidency redux could look like. But he’s also, quite frequently, rambling and incoherent, running off on tangents that would grab headlines for their oddness should any other candidate say them.

Journalists rightly chose not to broadcast Trump’s entire speeches after 2016, believing that the free coverage helped boost the former president and spread lies unchecked. But now there’s the possibility that stories about his speeches often make his ideas appear more cogent than they are – making the case that, this time around, people should hear the full speeches to understand how Trump would govern again.

Spend a few minutes reading the article, and find analysis gems like this:

These half-cocked remarks aren’t new; they are a feature of who Trump is and how he communicates that to the public, and that’s key to understanding how he is as a leader.

The New York Times opinion writer Jamelle Bouie described it as “something akin to the soft bigotry of low expectations”, whereby no one expected him to behave in an orderly fashion or communicate well.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Apr 24 - 02:38 PM

Questions have arisen about the ability of the bond company to cough up the cash if needed.

Meanwhile, Trump posts that going to jail for violating a gag order would be a "great honor." It would make him "the Modern Day Nelson Mandela."

Many people would certainly think so.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Apr 24 - 04:12 PM

In a separate part of the Trump enterprise (not under indictment yet), it seems that Trump's "Truth Social" was kept afloat by a Russian-American who is a "person of interest" for money laundering and insider trading. Sounds like Trump's kind of guy.

Exclusive: Trump Media saved in 2022 by Russian-American under criminal investigation
Trump’s social media company went public relying partly on loans from trust managed by person of interest to prosecutors

The former US president stands to gain billions of dollars – his stake is currently valued at about $4bn – from the merger between Trump Media and Technology Group and the blank-check company Digital World Acquisition Corporation, which took the parent company of Truth Social public.

But Trump Media almost did not make it to the merger after regulators opened a securities investigation into the merger in 2021 and caused the company to burn through cash at an extraordinary rate as it waited to get the green light for its stock market debut.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 08 Apr 24 - 02:58 PM

This might be the first politically strategic statement I have seen by the Trumpster. It might also be the last, IMO.

Donald Trump says US states should determine abortion law but did not propose a national ban

"In short: Donald Trump has released a video on abortion law.
   
"The presidential hopeful says it should be left to US states to decide, but he did not speak about a national ban.
   
"The issue of abortion is likely to be crucial during this year's election.

"Donald Trump said he still believes abortion laws should be determined by the states but has stopped short of a national ban, choosing a more moderate stance heading into November's general election.

"In a video posted on his social media platform, the former US president said he supported exceptions for rape, incest and to protect the life of the mother. He also reiterated that he supports the availability of in-vitro fertilisation.

"He did not say that he would seek a national ban on abortion if he is returned to the White House, with the issue likely to galvanise voters of both political parties in November's presidential election."

.....

"Since launching his campaign in late 2022, Mr Trump has largely shied away from the topic of abortion.

"The Republican Party has struggled to articulate a message to stop the political fallout after the 2022 ruling overturning the 1973 landmark Roe v Wade decision.

"That move was made possible by Mr Trump's appointment of three conservative justices to the court while president from 2017 to 2021.

"The reversal triggered a voter backlash that was widely credited with curbing Republican gains in the 2022 congressional mid-term elections and propelling Democrats to victories in some state elections last year.

"While Americans tend to accept restrictions on abortion after the first trimester, polls also show that a sizable majority prefer to have the decision made by the patient and her doctor, not the government."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 24 - 01:41 PM

Trump lied to the court that no one would give him a bond.
AXOS bank, formerly Internet Bank US, was happy to give him a bond for the full amount. They gave him millions of dollars in loans in the past.
source Rachel Maddow/

In the lieocracy of Liemerica, the abortion remarks of Trump have been followed by the Arizona Supreme Court ruling that a territorial law regarding abortion from 1864 that makes abortion a criminal offense will now be the law of the land.

All the Trump-appointed SC Judges lied when they testilied before Congress that they would not overturn Roe Wade.

House members are now claiming the claims of DC Weekly are true.
DC Weekly is the pillar of Russain propoganda.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 24 - 05:44 PM

The top brass of the US military have filed an Amicus brief with the Supreme Court that advises that giving Trump sweeping immunity will cause domestic chaos by using the military against US citizens and cause global mistrust of the US by our Allies.


Now that's another first!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 24 - 06:09 AM

Imagine a dictator and his Supreme Court deciding to make other 1864 laws to be left to the States to be enforced like allowing only men to vote. What was whispered might be shouted. There are men who would like to see certain women as commodities to be sold. The South shall rise is a phrase that is coming back.

Naw, it couldn't happen here      again.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 24 - 07:14 AM

Donald Trump and his driver were cruising along a country road one evening when a pig ran in front of the car.

The pig was killed.

The President told his driver to go up to the farmhouse and explain to the owners what happened.

About an hour later the driver staggered back to the car with his clothes in total disarray. He was holding a bottle of wine in one hand, a cigar in the other and smiling happily.

“What happened?” asked the President.

“Well,” the driver replied, “the farmer gave me the wine, his wife gave me the cigar, and their beautiful daughter made mad passionate love to me.”

“My God, what did you tell them?” asked the President.

The driver replied: “I just said I was Donald Trump’s driver, and I just killed the pig.”

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Apr 24 - 12:07 PM

Former Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg sentenced for perjury

Weisselberg still hasn't turned on the mob boss he worked for. Maybe facing five more months at Rikers will cause a last minute deal. We can always hope!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Apr 24 - 12:20 PM

The fear of a possible Trump presidency ripples through non-profit organizations like that set up in the name of former president Gerald R. Ford. Famed photographer quits Ford board over Liz Cheney snub
David Hume Kennerly wanted the Trump critic honored with the foundation’s top award.

A Pulitzer Prize-winning political photographer resigned Tuesday from the board of the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Foundation, blasting the group for cowardice in rejecting Trump critic Liz Cheney as the recipient of its top yearly award.

David Hume Kennerly claimed in a letter to fellow trustees that Cheney’s nomination for the Gerald R. Ford Medal for Distinguished Public Service was nixed largely out of fear that Trump would retaliate against the organization if he’s reelected. Cheney, herself a trustee, was rejected three separate times, Kennerly wrote, as other potential honorees declined the award.

Gleaves Whitney, the foundation’s executive director, said in a statement that the foundation’s executive committee, guided by legal counsel, believed it was not “prudent” to give the medal to Cheney given her flirtations with a presidential run.

Giving her the medal during the election cycle, Whitney said, “might be construed as a political statement and thus expose the Foundation to the legal risk of losing its nonprofit status with the IRS.”

Cheney isn't running for president. That possibility went away when the dubious "No Name" group declared that they weren't going to support a candidate.

That said, Trump keeps pointing fingers at anything he doesn't like and his thugs start the torment. Says a few caustic words and hell happens. The man needs to be muzzled.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 10 Apr 24 - 05:06 PM

A thought-provoking analytical article which I think is worth reading in full:

Donald Trump's anger at a Republican ally highlights his fear of women's voting power ahead of the US election

"Donald Trump may have locked up the Republican nomination with stunning speed, but he is keenly aware of a major hurdle that could stand between him and the White House: women.

"Many Americans who support access to abortion are motivated, angry and ready to punish Republicans — including Trump — at the ballot box on Election Day."

The Democrat strategy is interesting:

"A motivating issue

"President Joe Biden and his campaign are determined not to let Trump take abortion 'out of play'.

"Trump appointed three of the Supreme Court justices that overturned Roe v Wade – the legal ruling that made abortion access a constitutional right – and later claimed credit for the court's decision.

"Democrats are releasing their own videos as they take every opportunity to remind voters that Trump's ultimately responsible for the bans that are spreading across the country."

,,,,

"Meanwhile, in a recent YouGov/CBS poll, 51 per cent of respondents said abortion would be a major factor in their vote for president. Only 17 per cent said it wouldn't be a factor at all.

"And a KFF poll shows it remains a particularly motivating issue for female voters – especially Black women, Democratic women and women in states with abortion bans. One in six women of reproductive age said it was the most important issue for them this election.

"All this makes it easy to see why Trump wants Republicans to pipe down on the issue. But, even if they do, Biden and the Democrats are likely to keep talking about it non-stop.

"'Donald Trump and all those responsible for overturning Roe don't have a clue about the power of women in America,' Biden said after Trump's video release.

"'But they are about to find out'."

One of the comments in the article that I find most interesting is:

"Democrats like to go up against abortion hardliners at the ballot box.

"They've even been known to help anti-abortion candidates win Republican primaries, because they believe those candidates are easier for Democrats to beat."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 24 - 06:31 PM

Its too bad Helen can't vote here.

We all know that remaining silent is to be complicit.
Well meaning folks might be silent simply because someone like Trump does not deserve the head space in one's consciousness.
However the result of a Trump win is an evil that does deserve attention.
It is the evil of; might makes right, the ends justify the means, and mass detention and murder.

I need a bumperstiker that sez
If you fail to vote
      Trump
he goes to jail.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Apr 24 - 07:24 PM

Jury selection starts on Monday but there are lots of ploys his attorneys can try during that process to delay things. A retired judge who worked in the same court has said (on MSNBC) she thinks the jury selection will take the longest, the trail itself is pretty straightforward. She also said the judge will have to set limits - how long to interview each potential juror, and to not let them all bail at the beginning. That said, jurors aren't forced to stay if they feel they can't be fair in their hearing of the case.

It's all to do with the campaign - the first one - and whether money was paid as an illegal donation, etc. It wasn't paid as part of a personal wish to hide it from his wife, it was to do with a wish to hide it from the voters.

The change of venue request was ludicrous - because he himself is talking about this stuff all of the time and there is no corner of the state that hasn't heard about it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Apr 24 - 03:07 AM

However the result of a Trump win is an evil that does deserve attention.
quote Donuel
fifty percent approx of Americans do not agree

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 24 - 06:21 AM

You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all the people all the time. To say half of us can be foolish is unrealistic optimism. We can all be foolish some of the time.


In the upcoming trial remember paying hush money is not illegal and doctoring business records through Micheal Cohen is a misdemeanor.
IT IS a felony in campaign finance law to pay/bribe people to hide facts in an election. David Pecker will be a very important witness,

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Apr 24 - 06:29 AM

I believe the original quote is accredited to one of your former presidents, Abraham Lincoln, who said:

"“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Apr 24 - 07:59 AM

You can fool enough of the people enough of the time.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Apr 24 - 11:31 AM

We won't be able to watch jury selection, and I don't know if we'll be able to see any of the trial telecast, but there will be reporters popping in and out of the courtroom to update media hosts about the goings on. Important legal maneuvers, grandstanding, etc. Trump says he wants to testify, but the man is physically incapable of telling the truth so my money is on his attorneys talking him out of it lest he face perjury charges.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 24 - 05:28 AM

The Trump trial will be a first but it is the OPPOSITE in every way to the OJ Simpson trial.

The Trump trial will not be televised.
OJ was an athlete, Trump needs a golf cart.
The Trump motorcade is preceded by police vehicles.
OJ's Bronco was followed by police.
OJ had the best lawyers in the country.
Trump has legal mouthpieces.
The Trump trial involves his dick
The OJ trial involved a knife.
Trump is MAGA white
OJ was so black they redecorated his house 'white' for the trial.
For OJ if it didn't fit you must acquit.
For Trump one size fits all.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 14 Apr 24 - 05:50 PM

Wow! I just watched Donna Brazile on the latest round table section of
ABC America This Week very eloquently and determinedly voicing her opinion on abortion rights in the U.S.

Wow! She's my new hero!

Her statement starts at 4 mins 30 on the video but I am betting that what she said will pop up all over social media.

It was the episode dated 14 April 2024.

And I am still standing by my opinion that Trump will be hoist by his own petard(s), and one of the petards is labelled "abortion rights".

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 08:51 AM

An interesting opinion-piece in today’s ‘i’ on-line and newspaper written by Emily Maitlis, suggesting that Trump may be in a real tangle over the abortion issue, and that his election chances in November are seriously damaged by it.

Is Karma beginning to work bigly against him?

Emily Maitlis in The ‘I’

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 08:52 AM

His best hope is a hung jury.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 09:30 AM

Re jury selection: I can remember the televised version of Peyton Place in the late 1960s, mainly because of the multiple interminable episodes spent doing jury selection in some very important trial. The only other thing I can remember is Mia Farrow's skid-lid haircut.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 10:19 AM

I bet more women jurors will be dismissed than men. Some men might sympathize in their dreams with covering up porn star sex to avoid conflict with a pregnant wife and voters who are considering you for President, except for private bragging rights with buddies. I remember an old show 'Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous'.

It's funny that lawyers tried to change the venue for the trial in NYC where Trump has lived most his life.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 10:42 AM

Donna Brazile made a misstep with the DNC when she and Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida worked to steer the nomination to Hillary Clinton. As far as I know not illegal, but frowned upon, and absolutely nothing compared to what the Trump family is doing to the RNC at this point. But you're correct, Donna Brazile is a dynamo. I heard her speak on my campus a dozen years ago, she's smart and funny.

Another powerhouse strategist and speaker is Stacey Abrams, who ran twice for the office of governor of Georgia. Between these two women I'm sure Trump has spilled a lot of virtual ink in blasting their reputations while they can talk circles around him.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 11:37 AM

Seems to me that the jury should be a random twelve people drawn from the electoral register, or whatever the US version is of the Electoral Register - how can a fair trial be guaranteed with 'hand-picked' jurors?

Almost as weird as your 'Electoral College' nonsense.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 11:47 AM

English juries can be hand picked to a certain extent. A barrister objected to me as I was wearing a 3 piece suit and sporting a red rose (it was St George's Day). I believe they can object to a certain number of jurors.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 12:06 PM

American juries are not exactly "hand-picked." They are closely questioned under oath by attorneys for both side. If a prospective juror appears to be unfriendly to one side or the other, or incapable of passing judgment, he or she is dismissed.

Each side also gets a limited opportunity to dismiss prospective jurors for no stated reason at all.

The "jury pool" is indeed selected from randomly chosen people on the local voting rolls.

But to dispense with the questioning ("voir dire") would raise the probability of prejudiced, indecisive, and moronic jurors serving on the panel. A jury is empaneled only when all of its members have been approved by both sides.

So to call it "hand-picked" is entirely misleading.

As for the electoral college, it was the price the free states had to pay to get the slave states to join the Union in 1787.

Since the "3/5 rule" was intended to restrict stave-state representation in Congress by lowering its "official" population, these less populous states demanded in return a way to exert somewhat greater influence on the outcome of presidential elections - the only time the electoral college comes into play.

The Founders rejected the alternatives to the electoral college: direct democracy or election of the president my members of Congress.

They believed among other things that the electoral college would be less corruptible than the alternatives.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 12:06 PM

It’s unusual though, Manitas - it’s certainly doesn’t seem to provide the same kind of jury-rigging opportunity as in the US from what I can gather. Here’s the opening paragraph from the ‘Jury Vetting’ section of the CPS website…

”In some circumstances, the parties to the case can challenge the empanelment of a juror through ‘Stand By’ or ‘Challenge to Cause’, full details of which are set out in this document. However, this would generally be an exceptional course and the prosecution should only exert its right to do so where it is essential and on the basis of the clearly defined criteria set out below. “

The full section is here…

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 12:19 PM

Thanks Lighter, makes more sense now, but still something of an OTT palaver to a simple bloke like me! ;-) :-)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 01:16 PM

On BBC1 Evening News just now, an American woman being interviewed in a vox-pop outside the courthouse saying that, if Tr*mp goes to jail, she and millions of other Americans are going to “Grab our guns and have a civil war”. The lunatics are taking over the asylum.

God Help America.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 04:01 PM

The release of the blockbuster motion picture horror "Civil War" should serve as something of a deterrent.

Of course, the operative word is "should."

Meanwhile, bad news for DJT investors, though some don't mind:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-supporters-horrified-value-truth-141358796.html

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 04:24 PM

Some people believe jury selection is the most important part of a trial.

Runaway Jury is a 2003 American legal thriller film directed by Gary Fleder and starring John Cusack, Gene Hackman (who had also starred in The Firm and The Chamber), Dustin Hoffman and Rachel Weisz. An adaptation of John Grisham's 1996 novel The Runaway Jury, the film pits lawyer Wendell Rohr (Hoffman) against shady jury consultant Rankin Fitch (Hackman) who is my cousin, uses unlawful means to stack the jury with people sympathetic to the defense. Meanwhile, a high-stakes cat-and-mouse game begins when juror Nicholas Easter (Cusack) and his girlfriend Marlee (Weisz) appear to be able to sway the jury to deliver any verdict they want in a trial against a gun manufacturer. The film was released October 17, 2003.



There are people who are taught they have to hide some kind of individuality from society. It used to be race, gay people or intersex people who were told to hide but whatever differences be it disability or ability I say viva la difference. The fear of being made fun of should not cage people in denial, whatever their differences. Folks like these may be able to wrangle themselves onto a jury despite having strong feelings that are not impartial

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 05:18 PM

”The release of the blockbuster motion picture horror "Civil War" should serve as something of a deterrent.”

I saw ‘Civil War’ at the cinema in Lincoln yesterday. Of course it’s fiction, but if reality was only half as bad as the fiction of the movie, it would still be horrific.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 05:19 PM

Of course, contrary to expectations, World War I wasn't much of a deterrent to World War II.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 05:23 PM

Precisely!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 05:42 PM

Back to the case at hand, please.

MSNBC will be talking about this in detail all evening with their best and brightest.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 06:04 PM

Back to the topic, more than half of the nearly 100 prospective jurors answering a preliminary questionnaire today were dismissed for saying they weren't impartial.

The remainder have to be questioned by the attorneys.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Apr 24 - 10:38 PM

If he wants to attend his son's high school graduation and have Wednesdays off he has to cooperate and let things move along. Does Donny really want to go to a high school graduation? Probably not - that's more playing to the supporters. (I wonder where Barron will go to college? Melania has been a very involved parent from what I can tell - will she have an opinion that has him doing something other than the rest who went to U Penn?)

One thing I can empathise with as far as Trump's day in court - I'd be falling asleep in there also.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Apr 24 - 02:55 AM

All politicians play to their supporters. It must be difficult to find an impartial juror, much as i dislike Trump,how can he have a n impartial trial.
I would think watching Trump in court would be LESS SLEEP INDUCING than watching Biden

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 24 - 06:50 AM

"Wow, so much..."

Sleep is one thing but cognitive decline is another.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Charmion
Date: 16 Apr 24 - 11:04 AM

It is possible to judge a loathsome person fairly, but it takes a high degree of self-discipline to stay focussed on the facts of the case and the nature and quality of the evidence.

That said, I'm glad I'm not in that jury pool.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 24 - 11:35 AM

Biden won't be sleep inducing in court ever, Sandman, because he isn't breaking the law and won't be tried like Trump. Today again Trump is apparently nodding off.

The demographics of the New York City jury pool (according to MSNBC's Steve Kornacki reviewing the last presidential election) are 76% voted for Biden, with Manhattan alone coming in at 87% for Biden. The Trump attorneys are hoping for a lot of jurors from Staten Island where Trump did best (but still didn't win.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Apr 24 - 12:24 PM

"On Monday, conservative media personality Clay Travis sent the following tweet to his one million-plus Twitter (X) followers: 'If you’re a Trump supporter in New York City who is a part of the jury pool, do everything you can to get seated on the jury and then refuse to convict as a matter of principle, dooming the case via hung jury. It’s the most patriotic thing you could possibly do.'"

Since prospective jurors are under oath at voir dire, Travis is urging perjury in federal court for the sake of "patriotism" and "principle."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 24 - 10:43 PM

Voir dire can be used to strategically put a leader on a jury that will have great influence over others who may be led like sheep. Hiring a firm to scour the history of people in a jury pool is not illegal. Jus saying that it may look like the lawyers are doing the deciding but probably not.

The mob would simply threaten a jury member or two. Now there is practically a spooky neuroscience devoted to jury selection in big cases.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Apr 24 - 02:36 AM

”On Monday, conservative media personality Clay Travis sent the following tweet to his one million-plus Twitter (X) followers: 'If you’re a Trump supporter in New York City who is a part of the jury pool, do everything you can to get seated on the jury and then refuse to convict as a matter of principle, dooming the case via hung jury. It’s the most patriotic thing you could possibly do.'"

Since prospective jurors are under oath at voir dire, Travis is urging perjury in federal court for the sake of "patriotism" and "principle."

Seems to justify my post of 15th April, 12:06PM…

”It’s unusual though, Manitas - it’s certainly doesn’t seem to provide the same kind of jury-rigging opportunity as in the US from what I can gather.”

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 24 - 06:58 AM

Are there any cynics here?

There are opinions, insights, and chronicling journalists in this thread.
I explore the first two for the most part along with insider humor and Stilly deals mostly with the chronicling of journalists.

We all know the obvious win for Trump with a hung jury.
The Teflon Don had 3 hung juries.
Trump needs just one.

I suspect low information folks are most likely to feel phantom victimization and conspiracy by the 'man' but are not actual cynics.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 24 - 07:24 AM

Rubber neckers are a hazard on the highway and possibly on social media but the trial has suspense anyway you cut it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 24 - 05:02 PM

Looking back I have seen how and why the indictments have come so late. Berman the AG in NY was ordered by federal AG Bill Barr to drop the investigations regarding Trump. Berman refused and Barr then falsely announced Berman had resigned. Berman responded that he has not resigned and that Barr had lied. In the end President Trump fired Berman.

Regarding why Merrick Garland was reticent to bring Trump indictments goes all the way back to when he was a young AG in OK during the bombing of the Muir building by Timothy McVeigh and others.

28 years ago soon after the OJ Trial and well after Ruby Ridge and Waco, 2 blunders by a militarized ATF, Merrick Garland had a dilemma of going after the entire neo nazi right-wing conspiracy or just Timothy Mc Veigh as a lone bomber. Garland chose the easiest path then and now.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 24 - 08:41 PM

That was the Murrah building in Oklahoma City. Garland certainly seems to have taken his time, but I wonder how much of the delay had to do with legally weeding out all of the embedded (like a tick) MAGA Justice officials added during the Trump era in order to be able to do any work.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 24 - 11:52 AM

On Tuesday when seven jurors were seated the news media gave out demographic information to the extent of male or female, and what their jobs were. That was enough to have one of those seven ask to be excused today, that she feared her identity would be revealed. And along with excusing her the judge instructed media outlets to no longer give the job, neighborhood and or employer information.

One man interviewed on MSNBC this morning said he was excused because he is an artist who has satirized Trump for years. He thought he could be objective but figured as soon as they sussed out his work they would get rid of him as a juror.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Apr 24 - 12:40 PM

A second empaneled juror has been excused over concerns about his anonymity.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Apr 24 - 02:57 PM

A popular Fox anchor earlier described the first dismissed juror and said "This nurse scares me if I'm Trump."


https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-juror-quits-over-fear-155749123.html

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 24 - 05:40 PM

A jury of 12 and one alternate have been seated. Tomorrow they select the remaining 5 alternates. The judge isn't allowing Trump and his team to know who the first 3 witnesses are; he isn't trustworthy so they won't do it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Apr 24 - 02:12 PM

Just as jurors and alternates were empanelled someone outside the building apparently lit himself on fire.

Man apparently sets himself on fire outside courthouse where Trump is on trial

Apparently a screen view of inside for some in the reporter pool went blank at about the same time that the outside event happened. From the ABC story

A man apparently set himself on fire outside the New York City courthouse where former President Donald Trump is on trial.

Trump is inside the downtown Manhattan courthouse and has been made aware of the fire outside, sources told ABC News.

The person was badly burned and taken away from the scene on a stretcher. It was not immediately clear if the incident was related to the criminal proceedings.

Rely on the New York Post to have a video of the fire.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Apr 24 - 02:15 PM

New York Times article.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Apr 24 - 04:09 PM

The Trump bond is a fraud?

---

More information: Trump's $175 million bond questioned by New York AG, hearing scheduled ---mudelf

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Apr 24 - 04:30 PM

If the conspiracy lad had used gasoline instead of alcohol he would not have survived the trip to the hospital. He was not a partisan or MAGA

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Apr 24 - 06:56 PM

true story:

An old lady prospective juror was asked if she could be fair and impartial.
"Of course to the facts but as to anything Trump says I would not believe it even if his tongue was notarized".

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Apr 24 - 04:21 AM

Mrs Backwoodsperson has just seen on ‘X’ a report, allegedly from ‘very credible sources’, that when Tr*mp dozes off in court, he farts. Living up to his name!

His legal team are apparently struggling with the obnoxious odour of his gaseous emissions. The ‘X’ post says he’s being referred to as ‘Rip van Stinkle’. ;-)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 20 Apr 24 - 04:25 AM

That's funny, BWM!

How to get rid of lawyers:

1. Make them wait to get paid;
2. Fart them out of the courtroom.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 20 Apr 24 - 03:27 PM

An article worth reading from an interview on (Oz) ABC Radio National:

Anthony Scaramucci on the US election and what happens if ex-boss Donald Trump wins

"Anthony Scaramucci is part of a long conga line of people who worked in Donald Trump's White House and then turned on their former boss.

"Scaramucci had a very brief tenure as White House communications director in 2017, and after what he saw from inside and outside Trump-world, he doesn't mince words.

"Trump was a 'disaster', someone who 'didn't do the homework', an 'impetuous' leader 'reeling from one potential crisis to the next', he tells [Oz] ABC RN's Global Roaming.

"Perhaps his biggest zinger: The 45th president was 'an orange wrecking ball'.

"And although some recent polls show a neck-and-neck race between Joe Biden and Donald Trump in November's US election, Scaramucci believes Trump will lose — and lose soundly.

"But should Trump prevail, 'The Mooch' has a warning for America and the world.

"'[Trump is] an incredibly dangerous guy. I'm a lifelong Republican [but] I'll be working very hard against him over the next seven months,' he says."

....

"By Scaramucci's estimates, there are around 40 fellow Trump White House alumni 'that are denouncing him and begging the American public not to allow him to return to the presidency'.

"'It's my job, alongside my friends who love the country, to put patriotism first and partisanship last, and work hard to make sure that he doesn't win,' he says.

"'[So] I'm going with the older, slightly forgetful guy as opposed to the lunatic.'"

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Apr 24 - 03:50 PM

The USA is now a two tiered country that gives 100 billion in corporate welfare and makes everyone else pay for it.
We have replaced ambition with envy, replacing intolerance with hate.
The country is seething with resentment while Wall St. games win every battle. Average people are told that the enemy are immigrants or a evil political party and sadly are easily manipulated into believing it. When this rigged system is at its worst we have a mean spirited TRUMP HEAPING LIES ever higher. Trump knows that his belief in a killer instinct has helped his self interest. But deep down he is an insecure coward. His extreme cowardice must be exposed to discredit him and his lies.

How that is done is our homework for today.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 20 Apr 24 - 06:29 PM

Donuel, I totally agree with your post 20 Apr 24 - 03:50 PM.

The insanely wealthy people are calling the shots for the real people.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 24 - 09:23 PM

Anthony Scaramucci can't be trusted as a source no matter how much time has passed since he was in the Trump domain. Another one not to trust as a source of information in recent interviews is Michael Avenatti, who was the attorney for Stormy Daniels (until he stole $300,000 from her and was imprisoned). He has been heard recently opining on the Trump case and dissing his former client. Self-interest from both creeps. Don't give them oxygen.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 20 Apr 24 - 11:09 PM

Ok, thanks for the heads up. I guess we should enjoy his current views while they last, then, before the next wave of opinion rolls over him! LOL

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Apr 24 - 01:04 AM

Scaramucci may be saying that Trump was awful and discussing the other denisons of the White House, but he's not a reliable narrator. He is now saying what we all knew at the time, but in the day he was riding high and promoting his awful causes.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 21 Apr 24 - 03:23 AM

Zeal of the convert, Stilly .... ?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 21 Apr 24 - 03:29 AM

I vaguely remember hearing Scaramucci's name in in the dark old days of Trump's reign, but he probably thinks he can get away with saying anything over here in Oz. He probably thinks we are in an information backwater.

While his opinion is still that he doesn't want Trump back in power, I'll agree with him, but...it probably won't take long for his opinions to change, I'm guessing.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 21 Apr 24 - 07:52 AM

Unlike other insiders, Scaramucci has been speaking out forcefully against Trump since 2019.

He helped form a pro-Biden super-PAC in 2020.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Apr 24 - 03:11 PM

MaJoC I think you're right - the zeal is real, so to speak.

I started reading more about him (articles and Wikipedia) and went down a rabbit hole that eventually took me to reading the history of the program Wall Street Week (it sounds like a tortured investigation but the short answer is that Scaramucci's bio says that he hosted that show for a while after the program changed and Rukeyser left). And summing his political history briefly, he has gone back and forth between the two major parties. He has been busy and at times controversial, but unless there is a defining event that somehow isn't appearing in these articles I'm reading, I must have conflated his name with some other Trump ally. Of the two, Scaramucci would be a better source of information than the convicted Avenatti.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 21 Apr 24 - 04:14 PM

Ah, lightbulb moment Stilly!

The (Oz) ABC article I read showed Scaramucci's opinions fairly clearly but then I was doubting his motives because of your comments. I didn't do more research on him myself.

The article stated that he left the Trump administration within three weeks so he made that decision very quickly. The rest of the information in the article seemed to support his ongoing disapproval of Trump and his determination to take action to try to stop his re-election.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 24 - 02:27 PM

The news channel this morning reported on juror issues, someone needs to go to the dentist (is that an identifying element that will put them at risk?) and another was feeling nervous about being part of the process. Waiting for blow-by-blow accounts of the trial, since it isn't broadcast, isn't endurable. I'll tune in tonight for a recap. As it progresses we'll figure out what parts are worth watching for during the day, if any.

Apparently Trump spent just about as much on attorneys fees as he took in in donations last month (his supporters aren't wise to where their money is going? It isn't supporting candidate activity.) He's grousing about needing to be in Georgia and Florida for some of those proceedings. Poor baby. Shouldn't have participated in criminal activity, then his time would be his own.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Apr 24 - 03:16 PM

Quote of the year, from Trump's attorney Todd Blanche:

"There's nothing wrong with trying to influence the election. It's called 'democracy.'"

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 24 - 11:50 AM

It sounds from the reporters that the judge is getting really tired of the defense nonsense and trying to introduce topics that were already discussed, settled, or excluded. The whole prospect of the jury may be told to disregard things they are hearing but they will still hear it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 01:14 PM

A Trump lawyer said "This is a kangaroo court"
Fox News says this trial is cruel and unusual since Trump is gagged with no free speech and is not allowed to move around 8 hours a day, 4 days a week. That sounds like a part-time job to the rest of us but Trump is old and being sedentary is hazardous to his health.

If a golf course is Trump's natural habitat they have a point.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 01:58 PM

It also means he can't drink Diet Coke all day long, hence feeling the caffeine shortage with his nodding off.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 02:12 PM

At least he's not awake for the flatulence.
That Fox News quote reminds me of the old saying "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 05:10 PM

Diet Coke creates a real biochemical addiction.
Every time they have a hearing on Trump defying his intimidating vengeful remarks against gag orders, he does another one. It's like he is always one gag order hearing away from another one.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 06:00 PM

I might be wrong but this trial is in the same dingy courtroom where Weinstein met his fate.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 10:57 PM

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/congress-passes-law-banning-non-disclosure-agreements-in-sexual-harassment-cases

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 24 Apr 24 - 11:39 PM

Arizona grand jury indicts 11 Republican 'fake electors' who falsely declared Trump won the state in 2020

"In short: Eleven Republicans have been charged with conspiracy, fraud and forgery for falsely declaring to the US Congress that Donald Trump won the 2020 presidential election in Arizona.

"Arizona is the fourth US state to bring charges against "fake electors".

"What's next? The names of seven more people indicted will be released after they are served with charges, state Attorney General Kris Mayes said."

....

"The grand jury indictment also describes an unindicted co-conspirator who is clearly Mr Trump."

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 24 - 10:29 AM

The Supremes are hearing the case about Presidential immunity this morning. Trump is having a busy morning (he can't go to that court to hear this, though he said he should, because he's in criminal court. Poor baby.)

D. John Sauer (Trump's attorney) has the worst case of vocal fry I've ever heard. Or the worst voice I've ever heard. It's like nails on the proverbial chalkboard.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Apr 24 - 10:56 AM

The fake electors recorded themselves as the dumbest criminals who posted their crimes on Facebook.

THE TRUMP SUPREMES CAN'T RULE THAT Trump can order the National Guard to murder a Supreme Court judge so they will send it to a lower court for more research, which is all Donald needs for delay.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Apr 24 - 05:06 PM

But seriously, Donald has some good lawyers right now.
They are advancing a 3 pronged Goldilocks defense.
Simply, He didn't do anything, nothing happened.
If something did happen it was Michael Cohen.
If it all happened the election was just a coincidence.

There is something for everyone. They just need one juror to say
"that defense is just right".

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 24 - 10:25 AM

Ms Daniels described the sexual encounter with Trump - it was a power play by a guy who dangled a place on his television program and who wasn't taking no for an answer. She said it was consensual, but he had her isolated with no power and her heart wasn't in it, plus the scumbag didn't use a scumbag. The act wasn't illegal, what he did to hide it before the election is what is illegal. In a nutshell.

The jury won't be able to unhear this testimony.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 09 May 24 - 11:43 AM

He was just trying to help her get out of the trailer park.
What a class act.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 May 24 - 02:49 PM

Daniels apparently made mincemeat of the defense lawyer (Necheles) who kept her on the stand way longer than was necessary. And then the judge again refused to alter the gag order or allow a mistrial - because of the opening statement by Trump's attorney. Blanche called Daniels a liar at that point, yet he didn't discuss or protest all of the accounting issues that the case is actually about. And the judge said he must allow Daniels to restore her reputation, the jury can't just accept the opening statement that she was lying and have nothing to compare it to. So the "orange turd" discussion that was so prominent in yesterday's cross examination was their own damn fault. (And the fact that Stormy Daniels got to discuss hyperbole - her word - and explain the joke to Trump's attorney was priceless!)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 10 May 24 - 07:30 PM

Interesting commentary on Michael Cohen, the man who destroyed his own life to try to put Donald Trump in jail

"He [Michael Cohen] was once Trump's personal attorney and said he would 'take a bullet' for his boss, but everything has changed.

"Michael Cohen served years in prison for lying, tax fraud, bank fraud and campaign finance violations.

"But he thinks everything he's gone through will be worth it if he can take Trump down."

......

"And now, Trump faces a criminal trial in relation to the Stormy Daniels payment.

"Michael Cohen's entire life for the last six years has been leading up to his testimony in this trial.

"He's hardly a perfect witness. He is a liar and a criminal. He is not at all impartial.

"The question is — will his story be compelling enough for a jury to find Donald Trump guilty for a crime that Cohen has already served time for?"

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 May 24 - 09:53 PM

The thing about his being a liar - it was to Congress about his business with Trump. Protecting the boss. It's not in any other context. And the prosecution has demonstrated through several other ways the truth about what he has to say on the stand in this trial to make his testimony as bullet-proof as possible.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 10 May 24 - 11:29 PM

Yes, you're correct. It was an interesting article about a complex situation which has evolved over time, leading Michael Cohen to make a serious life-choice. I have a bit more respect for him now, after reading the article.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 May 24 - 04:39 PM

I heard a bit of the reporting today during Cohen's testimony but didn't have it on all day. I'll turn on the Monday evening commentary from Psaki and Maddow and O'Donnell (and O'Donnell was at court again today.)

This afternoon they've talked about how Trump refused to use email because of the story of a big gangster Giannani who refused to "go down" by being trapped by what he wrote. So like a good gangster, Trump never uses email.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 May 24 - 10:20 PM

I heard some of the running progress of the Cohen testimony today, and the MSNBC folks speculate on how the questioning will go, if the "real Michael Cohen" will be goaded into appearing. But just as this trial isn't about sex, it isn't about Michael Cohen either.

I am annoyed at the effrontery of the defense attorney to keep referring to the man on trial as "President Trump." He isn't president and he is such a horrible individual that using the title as an honorific is undeserved. They should be calling him Mr. Trump.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 14 May 24 - 10:50 PM

Yeah, but I'd prefer it if Michael Cohen's name for him stuck: dictator douchebag. :-D

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 May 24 - 12:53 AM

It's time for Steve Bannon to report to prison. He lost his appeal.

Federal prosecutors on Tuesday requested the judge overseeing ex-Donald Trump adviser Steve Bannon's criminal contempt of Congress case to order that he begin his four-month prison sentence, after an appeals court last week upheld his conviction.

Prosecutors said there is no legal basis for Judge Carl Nichols to continue the stay on Bannon serving his sentence after the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals' conclusive ruling that rejected the basis for Bannon's appeal on all grounds.

"Consequently, there is no longer a 'substantial question of law that is likely to result in a reversal or an order for a new trial,'" prosecutors wrote in their filing Tuesday.

I guess we need to learn more about the leanings of judge Carl Nichols.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 24 - 12:02 PM

We're waiting for the completion of the Cohen cross-examination (and some prosecutor rebuttals) and on Tuesday both sides are directed to be ready to begin closing remarks. It's a damned shame that the case with the fewest teeth is the only one that is probably going to be conducted before the election in November.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 May 24 - 11:55 AM

When the defense or prosecution has a witness they need to remove or discredit it is called "impeaching the witness." But here the defendant has already been impeached (twice!), so many of the witnesses have shady backstories, and Cohen himself served 13 months in prison. The bar is set bizarrely low for everything in this case.

The last day of Cohen testimony today, then hopefully the summing up in closing statements tomorrow will set it all in play for the jurors.

The MSNBC talking heads are discussing the lack of wisdom in the defense attorney spending so much time interviewing Cohen - noting that the more questions asked the more opportunity Cohen has to tell his own story (beyond simple Yes and No answers) and it makes Trump look progressively worse.

Meanwhile, the peanut gallery in their blue suits and red ties in the park opposite the federal courthouse are doing Trump's dirty work by trashing the court, the jury, and more.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 May 24 - 12:54 PM

The Trump defense went out with a mis-guided witness selection of Robert Costello. His testimony only served to support exactly what Cohen had already testified to, and he misbehaved enough that the judge at one point cleared the courtroom of reporters. The thought is that as the last witness his stink may rub off on Trump.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 22 May 24 - 02:57 PM

It's sad that Trump didn't testify. He wouldn't have been able to rein himself in, would have blurted out lots of guff and dug a satisfyingly deep hole for himself. At least his lawyers earned their fat fees on that.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 May 24 - 07:42 PM

It has been a quiet few days since the Trump case rested, but this weekend Trump went to talk to the Libertarians (a surly bunch who don't get along well with anyone else politically) and they booed the Wannabe dictator.

Donald Trump, the former US president, has suffered the rare humiliation of getting booed and heckled during a raucous speech to the Libertarian National Convention.

Trump’s rocky ride at a Washington hotel on Saturday night, including cries of “Bullshit!” and “Fuck you!”, underlined the challenge that the Republican presidential nominee faces to broaden his appeal both left and right on the political spectrum.

“The fact is we should not be fighting each other,” Trump pleaded. “If Joe Biden gets back in, there will be no more liberty for anyone in our country. Combine with us in a partnership – we’re asking that of the libertarians. We must work together. Combine with us. You have to combine with us.”

The appeal went down like a lead balloon as delegates booed, jeered and shouted insults. It was a stunning rebuke for a man who has become accustomed to cult-like rallies where his every word is cheered to the echo.

One thing we can agree on. The man needs to be booed off the stage and out of public life.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 26 May 24 - 08:30 PM

Thanks for that, Stilly. I needed a good laugh-out-loud. :-D

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 May 24 - 08:55 PM

For some reason I'm now seeing that Guardian version of the video as "private." CNN also played some of the speech.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 24 - 10:49 PM

Tomorrow (Tuesday, May 28) the jury gets their instructions from the judge. And then we wait for a verdict.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 28 May 24 - 12:27 PM

I'm hoping they nail him but I've a feeling the slithery bastard has done his utmost to get to one or more jurors given his conviction that he is above the laws of this land.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 28 May 24 - 02:52 PM

Yes gillymor, but look on the bright side. The slithery bastard has been holed up in the courtroom for a month, had to sit down and say nothing during the trial and nearly blown a gasket every day trying to keep his mouth under control, and been unable to go on the campaign trail, unable to speak freely to the media, and has agreed to two debates with President Biden where the microphones will be turned off after timed responses. We have also been entertained by the Veepstakes, watching more slithery bastards vying for his attention, hoping to be placed on the ballot as his potential VP.

I just wish there were more trials scheduled before the election. I don't think his blood pressure could take it.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 May 24 - 04:59 PM

The jury has reached a verdict, meaning it isn't a hung jury. They asked for 30 minutes to fill out the jury questionnaire (confirming the status of each charge and the vote).

We are on pins and needles waiting. Wishing the judge and jury a safe trip home after all of this.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 May 24 - 05:08 PM

GUILTY!!!!!!

Couldn't happen to a nastier guy.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 30 May 24 - 05:29 PM

Amazing news!! I really didn't think that the jury decisions would be so quick, and that he would be found guilty on all charges. I am placing bets that he will appeal, but that would only work, IMO, if he had been found not guilty on at least some of the charges.

If it wasn't just after sunrise here I'd break out the champagne.

Woo Hoo!!!!! :-D

Donald Trump found guilty in criminal 'hush money' trial

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 30 May 24 - 05:41 PM

I've never been so glad to be wrong about something.
YEEEEEEEHAAAAAWWW!!!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 30 May 24 - 07:06 PM

A recent Doonesbury strip I've been a fan since the 80s. Only Sunday cartoons are still drawn, other day are re-runs, scroll down to see the calendar & check next Sunday.

Or fill time by reading past Sundays!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 30 May 24 - 07:24 PM

Not sure how this conviction is going to effect the electon but I'm now feeling better about being a citizen of this country than I have in a long time.
Here's to the health of this nation!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 30 May 24 - 07:56 PM

I heard a comment on Oz ABC that a convicted felon can't own a gun or vote in elections. He can still run for President unfortunately but cannot carry a gun in an attack on the Capitol or vote for himself. But then again, he sent his minions to attack the Capitol and stayed in his own little den, watching from a safe distance so he is unlikely to put himself in the firing line if it happens again.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 May 24 - 11:05 PM

This is a state charge and Trump isn't a resident of New York now. Even if the charge transferred to Florida, we are told that the Florida governor might offer dispensation so he can vote there.

Though Trump has repeatedly shot himself in the foot, I don't know if there is proof that he owns and firearms. He fires from the lip.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 31 May 24 - 02:20 AM

Yep. He loads the guns (verbally) and lets other people go into the firing line. Come to think of it, that sounds a lot like what he did to Michael Cohen.

I'm hoping Melania is somewhere safe. He might take his anger and frustration out on her because she probably wouldn't be able to fight back.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 31 May 24 - 04:41 AM

> he sent his minions to attack the Capitol and stayed
> in his own little den, watching from a safe distance

From what I heard at the time, Helen, the Orange Man-Baby* was all set to lead his zombie army's march .... but the Secret Service member driving his car had been trained to not let The Con put himself in harm's way. Much wrestling there was with the steering wheel, and the Secret Service member won.

* This epithet comes to you by (dis)courtesy of this morning's paper reviews on the BBC Red Button.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 31 May 24 - 04:50 AM

MaJoC, you're correct of course. However, if he had been at the Capitol would he have been at the head of the attack, directly in harm's way or hiding behind a barrier at the back, yelling commands at everyone else to do his dirty work?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 31 May 24 - 05:15 AM

He recently bragged at a rally that he did ask his handlers to take him to the Capitol building on Jan. 6 but denied there was the physical confrontation that Cassidy Hutchinson testified about. Hopefully in doing so the dumbass gave prosecutors something they can use at his Jan. 6 trial.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 31 May 24 - 05:26 AM

If only the Capitol riot trial could have been held before the election. Imagine all the evidence being made public from that. Surely that would change the minds of the voters who are sitting on the fence.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 May 24 - 08:11 AM

I just read somewhere that he stared at all the jurors as he left. That must be a worry for them and their families.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 24 - 09:56 AM

And none of the jurors looked at him. He can glare all he wants. By then, any fear or awe of Trump would have worn off. After Grisham/Daniels described his behavior to her I would think that put an end to his ability to intimidate those normal human beings. He's just a creep.

Helen, Melania is a piece of work who will be sure she stays out of harm's way. There was a book by Stephanie Winston Wolkoff who worked occasionally with Melania on fashion projects over the years prior to the inauguration, at which time Melania pulled her into the inaugural project (where Trump and cronies raked in and pocketed millions) and proceeded to run roughshod over her. She is easily as calculating as Donald, but more subtle about it.

The judge released the jury from the need to conceal their role or not discuss the case. If any would actually open up is unknown on this first day after the verdict - they would open themselves to horrible threats from his pin-headed minions and Q-anon followers.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 24 - 12:25 PM

The memes following this trial are fast and furious, but the next trial is what people need to keep their eyes on.

Just Security has a clearinghouse of Trump's trials, but it isn't up to date right now. They suggest the next one to start is the Mar A Lago documents trial. In fact, I think the supreme court has to stop fooling around and declare Trump to be a normal person subject to prosecution even for things he did when in office, then other trials can move forward. The D.C. one was ready to seat jurors before the supreme court said they'd hear his claim of immunity.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 31 May 24 - 12:34 PM

Herself just endured the manbaby's* tirade (11:00 New York time) so I didn't need to, and divulged the top bits: Dear me, everybody's against me [namecheck, namecheck], it's all the fault of the deep state, yada yada .... He's even managed to implicate China somehow, and separately the Congo, but it's difficult to tell.

Hmmmm .... The Goldwater Doctrine states that a psychiatric professional cannot pass judgement on a political person unless said person has been on said psychiatrist's couch. Methinks the manbaby's bletherings are basically him treating a microphone as said couch: he's basically doing a psychoanalytical coredump. He's incapable of resisting the lure of the open mike.

* I might have known. UK readers will be shocked (shocked!) to learn that the expression "orange manbaby" was courtesy of the Star, the most honest of the English tabloids.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 31 May 24 - 04:43 PM

Stilly, in fact I don't give a hoot about Melania. It doesn't surprise me that she is the female version of Trump, but my comment was aimed at what I expect Trump's reaction would be: don't kick the big guys or the lawyers because they have the power to fight back, just go home and kick the wife.

How is this for hypocrisy? Kremlin says Trump's conviction is about White House 'elimination of political rivals'

The Kremlin and Putin are experts on that.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 31 May 24 - 04:45 PM

And "orange manbaby" in my head = those images of the Trump baby balloon. Funny!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 11:18 AM

Last Saturday morning I rode my bike past a busy intersection here in Naples at around 10 A.M. and was dismayed to see about 15-20 MAGAheads pumping pro-trump signs in the air. I passed through that same intersection today at 10 and found their corner vacant. Not sure what that means but I took it as a good sign.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 11:45 AM

Other Republicans are now being told to support Trump or quit the party. It's "my way or the highway". Boils down to anyone saying the US legal system is good is a "traitor". Sadly it seems to be working and, even sadder, many of the electorate are gullible enough to believe it. I know it is not what you guys want to hear but to us outsiders it still looks like a win for extremists.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 12:17 PM

There are more registered Democrats in this country than Republicans so I don't see how the GOP can't afford to purge potential voters if they want to win or hold onto congressional seats. I think you're listening to the extremists who tend to make the most noise.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 12:21 PM

I do hope so gillymor but still fear the worst. The number of registered party members is hardly an indication if what the electorate will do

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 12:49 PM

I don't see the old phoney getting much traction with Democrats this time around and his recent criminal conviction has got to hurt him with independents and undecideds, but then I've been very wrong before, going back to Tricky Dick's resurrection in '68.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 02:06 PM

Regarding gatherings of MAGAheads : I saw on a factual, analytical Oz TV show called Planet America that Trump held a rally in the last week or so and did his usual stunt of overstating the size of the crowd. I can't remember where the rally was, sorry, but Trump declared that there were (as I recall) 28,000 people there but official figures, including tickets sold, estimated that there were only about 3,500 people.

The numbers of MAGAheads gathering near the courthouse have been fairly low too, judging by the TV coverage.

It might be a sign of changing support numbers.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 03:36 PM

No amount of postulating on an obscure folk music forum will stop the arsehole from gaining power though. All indications (not just polls - world opinion) are that he is a serious contender and threat to world peace.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 11:11 AM

It's started

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 01:53 PM

No surprise there Dave. And I, for one, won’t be the least bit surprised when he’s re-elected in November. I fear it happening, but it won’t be any sort of surprise.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 24 - 06:17 AM

Did Trump commemorate D-Day even though his side lost? :-D

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jun 24 - 11:23 AM

There was an article in The Atlantic today that reflects your doom and gloom remarks, but I wish you'd all stop doing it. It's like you are wishing it to come true by saying it so often. Don't jinx us.

Here's a clip from that article (in case you hit the paywall).
WHAT EUROPE FEARS
American allies see a second Trump term as all but inevitable. “The anxiety is massive.”

The irony of Europe’s obsession with the upcoming election is that the people who will decide its outcome aren’t thinking about Europe much at all. In part, that’s because many Americans haven’t seen the need for NATO in their lifetime (despite the fact that the September 11 terrorist attacks were the only time Article 5 has been invoked). As one journalist in Brussels put it to me, the alliance has for decades been a “solution in search of a problem.” Now, with Russia waging war dangerously close to NATO territory, there’s a large problem. Throughout my conversations, one word came up again and again when I asked European officials about the stakes of the American election: existential.

“The anxiety is massive,” Victoria Nuland, who served until recently as undersecretary for political affairs at the State Department, told me. Like other diplomats in the Biden administration, she has spent the three-plus years since Trump unwillingly left office working to restabilize America’s relationship with its allies.

“Foreign counterparts would say it to me straight up,” Nuland recalled. “‘The first Trump election—maybe people didn’t understand who he was, or it was an accident. A second election of Trump? We’ll never trust you again.’”

We get it. We're working on it. Stop nagging, please, that makes it worse. Go get rid of Nigel Farage if you want something to do. (That should have happened ages ago, then maybe you'd still be in the EU.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 24 - 02:31 PM

We can't get rid of him sadly. He is like herpes and just as unpleasant. Hopefully when he fails to get elected for the 9th time he will crawl back into the woodwork. I doubt it though. Like Trump and the legendary bad penny, he keeps turning up. The vote for Brexit did f**k up the UK. A vote for Trump will f**k up the world.

I'm not trying to jinx anything though. I sincerely hope you are right but I fear the worst.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jun 24 - 02:33 PM

This week Hunter Biden was found guilty of lying about drug use on a federal firearms purchase document. It seems the Trump folks are a bit flummoxed by the conviction - they were hoping for an innocent verdict to which they could point and blame Biden for interfering, etc., and by extension, interfering and trying Trump.

Like Trump, H. Biden has the option of an appeal. The GOP prosecutor in the case was a Trump appointee who interfered last year when a plea agreement had been reached (common with truly victimless crimes and first time offenses). The agreement was scrapped and Hunter Biden put on trial. Talking heads are convinced (in general) that this trial happened because Trump wanted it to and the special prosecutor is, like Judge Cannon in Florida, beholden to Trump.

In other news, Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg who put Donald Trump on trial has agreed to testify before the clowns in Congress, on the day after Trump is sentenced. There will be fireworks (if nothing, heads exploding on the GOP side of the room.)

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 12 Jun 24 - 03:36 PM

I saw briefly a mention of a Trump or maybe Trump supporter response to Hunter Biden's guilty verdict. (I'll find the actual quote if I can.) It puts them in an interesting double bind. If they go all high-&-mighty about Biden's son owning a gun then are they being hypocritical about all of those gun owners who did something massively illegal and invaded the Capitol?

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 12 Jun 24 - 03:48 PM

Here it is:

Hunter Biden is now a convicted liar. Donald Trump won't let his father forget it

"Two guilty verdicts ripple through campaign

"Joe Biden's response presents a stark contrast to his likely opponent in the November presidential election, who continues to rail against what he says is a rigged justice system.

"Had Hunter Biden been acquitted, Donald Trump might have suggested it was proof that he, Trump, was being treated unfairly.

"A conviction is in some ways harder for Republicans to spin.

They after all are the party of greater gun rights.

"Some would argue that the right to bear arms is absolute.

"Their line was soon clear from a statement promptly released by the Trump campaign in response to the guilty verdict.

"'This trial has been nothing more than a distraction from the real crimes of the Biden Crime Family, which has raked in tens of millions of dollars from China, Russia and Ukraine.'"

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jun 24 - 05:43 PM

He makes it up as he goes.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 12 Jun 24 - 06:49 PM

He sure does. He would probably fare a lot better without recordings of his previous contradictory rubbish being thrown back in his face.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jun 24 - 02:59 AM

Seeing as he dismisses previous recordings as fake news, it would not make any difference.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jun 24 - 03:23 AM

”He makes it up as he goes.”

He does indeed. Unfortunately, there’s a sizeable number of voters who believe him - exactly how many will be determined in November - and, personally, I find those people even more scary than Agent Orange himself.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jun 24 - 10:56 PM

It seems that Trump has threatened a lot of the movie distributors when it comes to a release of The Apprentice.

But nearly two weeks after its “bigly” premiere, the film still doesn’t have a U.S. distributor. Despite strong reviews, feverish media attention, a red-hot director in Ali Abbasi and a starry cast that includes Sebastian Stan and Jeremy Strong, “The Apprentice” remains up for grabs.

Sources close to the dealmaking say there are several potential buyers in the mix representing both theatrical distributors and streamers, and new offers continue to trickle in. But one of those sources revealed that none of the major studios are bidding, including their specialty labels like the Disney-owned Searchlight, Sony Pictures Classics or Focus, which is owned by Universal. Even some of the most daring indie distributors like Neon, which released Abbasi’s “Border,” aren’t offering a deal yet.

External reviews from the IMDb site.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 15 Jun 24 - 03:26 AM

I've been toying with the idea that the word "trump" might aptly describe some of Donald Trump's actions, what he might consider to be his triumphs, e.g. trumping the democratic process, or climate change action, or women's right to decide their best health options in consultation with medical professionals, or the people's right to effective and scientific health care in a pandemic. The list goes on and on.

Looking at the definitions on this page, I think I could come up with some hard hitting policy-based slogans for President Biden's election campaign. :-D

To trump is to outrank or defeat someone or something, often in a highly public way. Safety might trump appearance when you're buying a car, or your desires may trump your brother's when it comes to making weekend plans.

"In the card game bridge, the trump card is the most powerful card in a particular round and defeats all the others — sort of like when your needs or wishes trump someone else's. Originally trump implied a deceptive form of victory involving cheating, but that sense has been largely lost, though it's still around in the term trumped up, meaning something that's been falsely made up. A politician may face trumped up charges that could ruin his career.

Some of the other definitions of trump on that page:

    verb - get the better of. Synonyms: best, outdo, outflank, scoop

    noun - a playing card in the suit that has been declared trumps
    “the ace of trumps is a sure winner” Synonyms: trump card


    noun - (card games) the suit that has been declared to rank above all other suits for the duration of the hand
    “clubs were declared trumps”
    “a trump can take a trick even when a card of a different suit is led”
   
    noun - a final factor or resource that determines an outcome Synonyms: trump card
   
    noun - a brass musical instrument with a brilliant tone; has a narrow tube and a flared bell and is played by means of valves

    synonyms: cornet, horn, trumpet [or in Trump's case, an accordion :-D ]


    verb - proclaim or announce with or as if with a fanfare Synonyms: trump out

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jun 24 - 05:57 AM

You missed out the most important

Trump (noun) the noise made by breaking wind from the rear end

and

Trump (verb) the act of breaking wind from the rear end

Sums up the orange one to a tee.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Jun 24 - 04:35 PM

Still waiting for TRMP to float Alex Jones as a potential V.P. candidate.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jun 24 - 04:20 PM

The new Biden presidential ad takes the gloves off, now that Trump has been convicted.

The first debate is coming up next week. There will be no audience and the mics will be turned off for each candidate when it isn't their turn to keep Trump from speaking out the way he has done in the past.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jun 24 - 10:11 AM

Wow! - Powerful stuff. Trump's team will spin it of course but, hopefully, the mud will stick.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jun 24 - 08:22 AM

He seems to shooting himself in the foot more and more. Long may it continue!

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jun 24 - 11:52 AM

He has openly offered billionaires huge tax benefits if they support his campaign now, and they are lining up to fill his coffers. A big chunk of that cash will go to pay his legal bills (Trump never pays for those things on his own - he stiffs someone else or he simply refuses to pay, telling them they'll get "great exposure" from taking his cases). No musician is ever going to want to perform for him.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jun 24 - 11:00 AM

The importance of the new Presidential debate mic cutoff

A five-minute video with the brief remark below it:

"Being able to turn off the mic is a really powerful tool," says John Donvan, Debate Moderator-In-Chief for the group Open To Debate. "Interruptions tend to be not in good faith....given the choice between losing atmospheric buzz and keeping the substance on track...I vote for keeping the substance on track."

John Donvan is a familiar voice to Americans who listen to public radio and television news.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Jun 24 - 11:43 AM

It might be a good idea to strap Trump into his seat as well or even give him the full Hannibal Lechter rigging. Roll him onto the stage just like his hero.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 04:58 AM

I didn't watch much of the debate between Biden & Trump but the faces Trump was pulling throughout the debate reminded me very much of this animated character from the TV live action game show called Frogger.

Frogger - Boss Toad looks like Trump

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 05:16 AM

I didn't see the debate either (I cannot even stand to look at or listen to him) but the BBC reports that Biden did not fare very well.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 08:23 AM

I didn't watch it either but from this morning's coverage it appears that Trump rolled out a litany of lies and falsehoods,as usual, that Biden didn't challenge. I feel gut-punched this morning. The president is not going to get any younger over the next 4 and a half years and voters are going to be aware of that. Perhaps the DNC can get him to step aside before the convention. Kamala Harris, a former prosecutor, could make life difficult for Trump, the greatest threat to our Democracy during my lifetime, and make the old fraud accountable on coming debate stages.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 08:58 AM

I watched part of it, and left it to an overview for the rest.

The format didn't allow time to get into a lot of detail, and Trump rolled out so many lies - where to begin?

If you look at the substance of what was said, Biden was a clear winner, head cold or not. Trump was a liar as usual.

Trump will want to roll out clips from when Joe's voice was low, Biden will roll out clips of Trump's lies (or of him calling Trump a liar and a felon).

Now put your heads down and get to work, because Trump is just as much a disaster for the US today as he was yesterday.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jun 24 - 01:51 PM

I watched the entire debate, but I am a partisan (Democrat). My number one concern was for my guy not to topple over. The politics these days have been full of projection, so I thoight it might be TRMP who'd be drugged up.
I thought Biden appeared a bit weak and hard to untangle early on. He recoveed for the body of the debate, and he was employing somewhat the tactics of the Reps by being aggressive rather than sharp. Which I thought was appropriate given the frame of the debate, his opponent, and the times we are sadly living in. TRMP was handy with lies for all occasions and some whoppers, such as his insistence that the overthrow of Roe V Wade was what everyone wanted.
Biden seemed to derive energy from TRMP in that he responded to most of TRMP's assertions whether or not he could outquote or out-facct him, which is a losing tactic in the environment.
I thought Biden's closing statement was the weakest part of his performance, so I thought it was not a bad thing that Trump got the last word.

I'm hearing a lot of media talk about panicked Democrats, which I hope will settle down. Biden was still standing at the end of the day which was my main requirement. Whether or not the average American understands this, he's a true tough guy, he's kept a relevant working administration together in the wake of some major bad actors at home and abroad.

TRMP was most approximated by Berlusconi, or that was my opinion in 2016. Unfortunately for us, Berlusconi achieved re-election. I'm hoping Americans are a bit better than that. I don't know if U.K. has their own equivalent. I thought Boris might be, but I think he had more neurons firing in synchrony in his skullbox than TRMP.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 24 - 03:46 AM

Trumps mic was turned off when Biden was speaking.
This particular Presidential debate had 2 commercial breaks during a 90 minute period., which apparently is very unusual.
Biden was struggling with his words despite having two breaks.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 24 - 04:15 AM

I am sorry if my opinion upsets democrats, but that was how i saw the debate.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jun 24 - 09:45 AM

Trump's folks calculated how to deploy Biden's speech impediment to their advantage - the way Trump rattled off lies gave no chance to respond to each in turn, there were too many. This was a debating technique called the Gish Gallop.

This from historian Heather Cox Richardson:

Trump also directly accused Biden of his own failings and claimed Biden’s own strengths, saying, for example, that Biden, who has enacted the most sweeping legislation of any president since at least Lyndon Johnson, couldn’t get anything done while he, who accomplished only tax cuts, was more effective. He responded to the calling out of his own criminal convictions by saying that Biden “could be a convicted felon,” and falsely stating: “This man is a criminal.” And, repeatedly, Trump called America a “failing nation” and described it as a hellscape.

It went on and on, and that was the point. This was not a debate. It was Trump using a technique that actually has a formal name, the Gish gallop, although I suspect he comes by it naturally. It’s a rhetorical technique in which someone throws out a fast string of lies, non-sequiturs, and specious arguments, so many that it is impossible to fact-check or rebut them in the amount of time it took to say them. Trying to figure out how to respond makes the opponent look confused, because they don’t know where to start grappling with the flood that has just hit them.

It is a form of gaslighting, and it is especially effective on someone with a stutter, as Biden has. It is similar to what Trump did to Biden during a debate in 2020. In that case, though, the lack of muting on the mics left Biden simply saying: “Will you shut up, man?” a comment that resonated with the audience. Giving Biden the enforced space to answer by killing the mic of the person not speaking tonight actually made the technique more effective.

There are ways to combat the Gish gallop—by calling it out for what it is, among other ways—but Biden retreated to trying to give the three pieces of evidence that established his own credentials on the point at hand. His command of those points was notable, but the difference between how he sounded at the debate and how he sounded on stage at a rally in Raleigh, North Carolina, just an hour afterward suggested that the technique worked on him.

It wasn't a real debate, there was no real-time fact checking, they didn't do anything to keep Trump on topic.

Biden doesn't need to ever talk to Trump in person again, and it seems that this gaslighting adventure is another reason why.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jun 24 - 12:32 PM

We will resume the discussion of the Trump indictments and trial results. His dirty tricks are legion, and the courts are where he's getting his comeuppance.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 29 Jun 24 - 02:16 PM

Thankd you Stilly. That makes a lot of sense.

If Biden can address the issues and lies raised by Trump when Biden holds his rallies or in his ad campaigns he might be able to counteract the lies effectively and promote his own strengths and achievements.

I was beginning to believe that Biden was going to concede defeat at the Democratic Convention and allow another candidate to stand but I'm starting to wonder whether he may have been lulling Trump into a false sense of security so that he can expose his vulnerabilities more effectively. From what I have seen so far of Trump's campaign, he has said very little about what he hopes to do if he is re-elected so there is a bit of insight into his plans - allowing for the fact that his brain waves blow about in the wind and whatever he says he will do could be something completely different.

I live in hope. I just wish the court case about storming the Capitol could have been scheduled before the election, and I am waiting and hoping for a useful punishment to be revealed from the Stormy Daniels trial which may put some limits on Trump, in some way. Although I bet it doesn't, considering he is already using campaign funds that he has raised to pay his legal debts already and another financial penalty will mean very little to him.

Subject: RE: Trump INDICTED x4 NO new Trump threads part III
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Jun 24 - 02:20 PM

Sandman you wrote:

"Biden was struggling with his words despite having two breaks."

You may not be aware (as I was not aware until recently) that Biden had speech impediment issues when he was young. They could be re-assertiing now that age is catching up with him.

I agree with your observations. I do not think that in his case they indicate COGNITIVE issues. In other words his verbal slips are more typo issues than intellect issues. His opponent has major issues, moreover, all his people, friends, political supporters, and judicial picks, have or will have major detrimental issues for the United States (although the United States will survive).

Of course, your mileage may vary.

---

See the entire essay by historian Heather Cox Richardson for context into what was actually going on. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jun 24 - 05:08 PM

The Supremes didn't give Steve Bannon a get out of jail free card.

The Supreme Court on Friday rejected former Trump adviser Steve Bannon’s effort to avoid prison while he appeals his contempt of Congress conviction.

The court dispensed with the case in a brief order. There were no noted dissents.

Bannon, a conservative podcast host and former strategist for Donald Trump, asked the Supreme Court last week to pause his prison sentence. A federal judge ordered Bannon to turn himself in by July 1 to begin serving a four-month sentence.

The order came months after another former Trump adviser, Peter Navarro, similarly failed to receive a break from the conservative high court. In his filings with the Supreme Court, Bannon pointed to the House’s plans – approved on party lines – to weigh in on the merits of his appeal as it proceeds in DC’s federal appeals court.

Now the question is - will the Trump sentencing hearing be broadcast?

Major media outlets push for live coverage of Trump's sentencing in 'hush money' case

To satisfy “unparalleled public interest” and ensure transparency, a coalition of prominent media organizations has petitioned for the upcoming sentencing of Donald Trump in the Manhattan “hush money” case to be televised.

Representatives from major outlets, including the Associated Press, New York Times, and Wall Street Journal, argue that broadcasting the July 11 hearing live would allow the American public to witness the culmination of Trump’s legal saga firsthand.

This move comes in the wake of Trump’s conviction on 34 felony counts related to falsifying business records linked to payments made to silence allegations from adult film actress Stormy Daniels ahead of the 2016 election.

“Given Mr. Trump’s candidacy in the upcoming presidential election just months away, the historical and political significance of his sentencing cannot be overstated,” attorneys stated in a June 21 filing to Justice Juan Merchan of the Manhattan Supreme Court. . . . Trump faces a potential sentence of up to four years in prison, but alternatives like probation or community service are also on the table. His conviction marks a historic moment as the first former US president found guilty of felony criminal charges.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 10:05 AM

Today is the last day of this year's Supreme Court session, so it is expected they will release the decision about Trump's claim of immunity (scroll to the bottom). Unless they punt it to next session (beginning first Monday in October).

Meanwhile, Heather Cox Richardson has spelled out the facts behind one of Trump's claims about the Ukraine during the debate (after saying he alone could get Putin to release Gershkovich, the Wall Street Journal reporter on trial now). Not sure if this is part of the public content (I paid for her Substack "Letters From An American" after the debate, to get sound information about the context of these political times). I've read the free stuff for quite a while. June 28, 2024 in which she discusses how Trump has today been interfering with negotiations to release Gershkovich, and how Putin's debt to Trump goes back to early planning of the annexing eastern Ukraine, ahead of starting the war.

She says:

Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s 2019 report on Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election explained that Paul Manafort, Trump’s campaign manager and then conduit to Russian operatives, in summer 2016 “discussed a plan to resolve the ongoing political problems in Ukraine by creating an autonomous republic in its more industrialized eastern region of Donbas, and having [Viktor] Yanukovych, the Ukrainian President ousted in 2014, elected to head that republic.”

Manafort had helped to get the pro-Russian oligarch Yanukovych into office, and when Yanukovych fled to Russia after the Ukrainian people threw him out, Manafort was left unemployed and in debt to other oligarchs. When he went to work for Trump, for free, he promptly wrote to his partner Konstantin Kilimnik, whom the Republican-dominated Senate Intelligence Committee identified in 2020 as a Russian operative, asking how “we” could use the appointment “to get whole,” and made sure that the Russian oligarch to whom he owed the most money knew about his close connection with the Trump campaign (p. 135).

The Mueller Report continued: “That plan, Manafort later acknowledged, constituted a ‘backdoor’ means for Russia to control eastern Ukraine” (p. 140). The region that Putin wanted was the country’s industrial heartland. He was offering a “peace” plan that carved off much of Ukraine and made it subservient to him. This was the dead opposite of U.S. policy for a free and united Ukraine, and there was no chance that former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, who was running for the presidency against Trump, would stand for it. But if only Trump were elected….

And, in November 2016, he was.

According to the Republican-dominated Senate Intelligence Committee, Manafort’s partner and Russian operative Kilimnick wrote that "[a]ll that is required to start the process is a very minor 'wink' (or slight push) from D[onald] T[rump] saying 'he wants peace in Ukraine and Donbass back in Ukraine' and a decision to be a 'special representative' and manage this process." Following that, Kilimnik suggested that Manafort ‘could start the process and within 10 days visit Russia ([Yanukovych] guarantees your reception at the very top level, cutting through all the bullsh*t and getting down to business), Ukraine, and key EU capitals.’ The email also suggested that once then–Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko understood this ‘message’ from the United States, the process ‘will go very fast and DT could have peace in Ukraine basically within a few months after inauguration’” (p. 99).

According to the Senate Intelligence Committee, the men continued to work on what they called the “Mariupol Plan” at least until 2018.

There's quite a bit more to this column, if you can open the link.

Once Biden was in office the Trump folks were no longer fiddling in Ukraine affairs, and Putin went ahead and invaded.
Trump was able to dismiss the Mueller Report, with the help of his then Attorney General Barr, who offered a "summary" to the public that had nothing to do with what was actually in the report.

This is something else that Trump should be charged with, but chances are slim it would ever happen. Manafort and a couple of others did go to prison (though Trump pardoned Manafort, who is now working in the background of the Trump campaign.)

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 11:00 AM

Trump is getting a big bang from those Supreme Court appointees - he is given limited immunity, and the writeup is just starting so you'll have to read more detailed articles later to get the fine points.

6-3 decision along party lines, that Sotomayor said "never in the history of our republic . . . The long term results are stark" as she described as immunity from horrible behavior. He'll be able to take bribes legally, let people buy pardons, etc. Making him a king.

The one plus - should Trump get into office, he wouldn't be able to charge Biden (for simply being Biden.)

We have to get through this election and immediately pass some laws that render that decision null.

With this decision, things outside of official activity are not immune, but that looks like a huge gray area while someone is in office.

"Just slap the label 'official act' on it and do what you want," says Neal Katyal.

CNN has coverage and should be readable without a paywall.

There will be a lower court hearing to discuss official acts (and it gives Judge Chutkan a lot more "official" material to look through) and decide how much of the cases Jack Smith brought can go forward. She will still have some material to work with, but they've put hurdles in the way.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 02:49 PM

Interference in Ukraine by Russia with Trump's blessing and Manafort's assistance! OMG. Unbelievable in any normal times but just another Trump era escapade to add to the list of his misdemeanors.

I'm starting to realise why Putin was smirking at Trump when they met. I thought it meant that Putin thought Trump was an idiot. Now I think Putin just thought Trump was a performing monkey in a circus, trained to do any trick Putin wanted, easily used for his own ends.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 03:17 PM

> [Trump] has said very little about what he hopes to do
> if he is re-elected

In a word: Revenge.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 03:32 PM

Trump ally Steve Bannon arrives at federal prison to begin 4-month sentence - and every time another one of his cronies goes to prison, it makes it more imaginable that Trump could end up there also.

Trump is convicted, and if he is given a prison sentence, it's not like he reports directly to the hoosegow (only in Perry Mason). He then has to go through another bond process to stay out of jail during his appeal (is my rough understanding of how that can work). All of those steps, and of having a parole officer, are things that would work against any other candidate. Donald still has a lot of Teflon stuck to that orange exterior, though it has been pierced, so we're on pins and needles to see the outcome. Until the next outcome rolls along . . .

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 04:12 PM

When this is all over - will it ever be over? - just think of the TV series and Hollywood movies which will be made, each with their own take on who Trump really is, and then there will be the comedy takes on it all, but for now, it's all drama.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 05:04 PM

Have you not seen Bad President ?

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 10:45 PM

I've heard about it. Perhaps it is time to look it up.

Trump's lawyers announced today they are going to ask the judge in his payments to Stormy Daniels trial to set aside the verdict, based upon the Supreme Court ruling today. But what he did was totally a private act, a non-official act, and the State of New York found him guilty. The lawyers didn't turn in their recommendations for his punishment that were due today (the prosecutors, the parole department, and the defense all get to give an opinion to the judge). So who knows what will happen next week.

Stay tuned.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 07:29 AM

Have I got this right - The supreme court have ruled that the president of the USA is immune from proscecution for "official acts"?

Heaven help us all and protect ups from the American "justice" system...

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 08:04 AM

Points of order:

* Is the ruling in question retroactive?

* There's been much discussion on the wireless this morning. It's been suggested that said ruling seems to be so tightly fitted to Don the Con's circumstances that it couldn't be used in other cases.

Adjudication, please.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 08:08 AM

Well I’m glad it’s not just me who’s jaw-dropped, Dave. I just don’t ‘get it’ how the judges can make this stuff up on the hoof - isn’t Congress the legislature of the US? Shouldn’t a change in the law require an Act of Congress?

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 09:25 AM

The way it was written, the Supreme Court would have to decide in the end, in any given case, what is "official" versus "unofficial." They could give no examples of these things during the reading of the decision. So something they let Donald get away with they wouldn't let Biden get away with.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 10:43 AM

The Supreme Court should be apolitical, not a tool of the political parties. And this latest piece of BS is proof absolute. Judges should not be appointed by Presidents, nor on the basis of their political leanings.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 03:51 PM

News just in:

Donald Trump's sentencing delayed after US Supreme Court ruling on presidential immunity

"A New York judge has delayed Donald Trump's sentencing for criminal conduct until September at the earliest, after the former US president asked for a chance to argue he should have been immune from prosecution.

"The former president's sentencing, for falsifying business records to disguise hush money paid to porn star Stormy Daniels, had been set for July 11.

"But it faces potential complications after the US Supreme Court ruled on Monday, local time, that ex-presidents have some immunity from criminal prosecution in some circumstances.

"The postponement delays the sentencing until at least September 18, well after this month's Republican National Convention, where Mr Trump is set formally to accept the party’s nomination for president in this year's race."

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 10:50 PM

Rudy Giuliani disbarred in New York as court finds he repeatedly lied about Trump's 2020 election loss

"In short:

"Rudy Giuliani, the former New York City mayor, federal prosecutor and legal adviser to Donald Trump, was disbarred in New York after a court found he repeatedly made false statements about Trump's 2020 election loss.

"Mr Giuliani actively contributed to the fallout following the 2020 presidential election, the court said.
What's next?

"He is facing criminal charges in Georgia and Arizona over his role in the effort to overturn the 2020 election."

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jul 24 - 11:32 AM

Rachel Maddow did a long-form interview with Stormy Daniels last night. There was quite an "ick" factor, because they read through the transcripts of things that didn't go out over the air during the trial. She was not happy about the events in that hotel room.

During the program, Rachel noted that Daniels has financial problems because a decision that worked against her meant she had to pay Trump's legal fees (back in ~ 2018). It was the same kind of thing as in the E. Jean trial, but worked against Daniels. At any rate, a friend of hers set up a GoFundMe account to cover her legal bills and last night when I looked in it was at $30,000. Now it is up to $624,000. I made an anonymous donation (who wants their name on a list Trump Trolls can mine?) Part of Daniels problem is from refusing to fill out information on a form that would have included her 13-year-old daughter's name and address. Daniels herself was doxxed (a form was put up during the trial, and she pointed out to the judge that it had her address. She had to say it twice.) A sidebar resulted in the form being taken off of the screen and not entered into the record, but all of the attorneys and court officers could see that address before the form was taken down. Her home address was put online during that hearing. She wasn't paid or compensated for her time and travel during the trail (to which she was subpoenaed.)

Andrew Weissman yesterday pointed out that the sentencing date pushed to September is not a bad thing - it puts it right in front of the election "when people are starting to pay attention." (Hard to imagine that anyone isn't riveted to this news now, but whatever). And if Trump wants to appeal the conviction and sentence, the deciding body for any complaints is the New York Supreme Court, not the US one. That could come later, but way after the election.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jul 24 - 04:44 PM

As of this afternoon, $708,000 to help Ms. Daniels. This is in 18 hours since Maddow's interview; I hope pundits are reading something into this. It's a damned shame the bulk of the money raised has to go to Trump for those legal fees. As she said last night, it isn't fair, when he set all of this in motion.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jul 24 - 11:22 AM

This morning she is up to $912,000 toward the $1M goal. Getting her out from under Trump's thumb will be a welcome move.

It seems there is always new material to mine when Trump's folks get their comeuppance. Lincoln Project apparently posted a jab at Bannon in prison, one of those "don't drop the soap" references, that has prison rights activists complaining. I don't get the impression that Danbury minimum security prison (this is the "high profile" prison for rich folks) has gangs. It's the punchline when talking about prison for rich folks (does it have a golf course?)

Trump can go there. I don't care. Just put him in prison. Except that's federal, and he would more likely end up at Rikers, next to his former COO.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jul 24 - 11:34 AM

The recent supreme court decision that gave Trump carte blanche gift to commit crimes as official acts, should he find his way back to the White House, had some extra stocking stuffers. Clarence Thomas answered a question that no one asked - he set up a "road map" for the Florida federal judge to dismiss the stolen documents at Mara Lago case, and she did just that this morning. The premise is that the special counsel wasn't appointed in a legal way (regardless of the fact that special counsels were set up the same way going back many presidential administrations, including Trump and the Mueller case.

So, that can be appealed and it can be refiled by a different justice department prosecutor. But that trial won't happen before the election.

The case in Washington, D.C., is likely to be returned to Judge Chutkan on Friday this week, and she'll have to look at the decision and decide which of his acts have immunity and which can go forward with criminal charges.

Judge Chutkan's Trump Delay Offers Possibility of 'Other Movement'—Attorney
The article quotes Joyce Vance, a former federal prosecutor:

"This coming Friday, by my count, Judge Chutkan's jurisdiction over the Special Counsel's election interference case will resume when the judgment is returned to her from the Supreme Court," she wrote.

"No one knows exactly how she will proceed after the Supreme Court gutted the case with its finding of broad presidential immunity and prohibition on the use of any evidence that involves 'official acts.' Now we will finally begin to learn what Judge Chutkan's plan for moving forward is, including whether she intends to hold an evidentiary hearing to separate official acts from private ones.

"She must determine what charges in the indictment may proceed despite the immunity grant and what evidence the government is still entitled to use."

"The [Supreme] Court seemed to suggest that much of what Judge Chutkan must make decisions about are fact-based inquiries, which many commentators suggested would be an opportunity for the Judge to hold an evidentiary hearing," Vance added.

She said this would be "a mini-trial of sorts" that would expose "much of the evidence a jury would have heard if the case went to trial."

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jul 24 - 10:50 AM

For a summing up of what happened: Judge dismisses Trump documents case over special counsel appointment from NPR.

Some followup: Jack Smith's Three Options After Aileen Cannon Dismisses Case from Newsweek

A number of legal experts have laid out how Smith or the Department of Justice (DOJ) could still seek to prosecute Trump over allegations that he illegally retained classified materials after he left office in January 2021, then obstructed the federal attempt to retrieve them.

These include appealing the decision and having it overturned via the courts, or having the case refiled without Smith acting as special counsel.

Smith is likely first to appeal Cannon's ruling to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit, which has previously overturned some of the judge's decisions in the classified documents case.

Smith could also seek to have Cannon removed from the case altogether in the wake of her latest ruling via the 11th court.

Former federal prosecutor Joyce Vance suggested this outcome would be the "icing on the cake" for Smith, as Cannon has long faced criticism for her rulings in the federal case which some say appear to have benefited Trump.

Even if Smith loses an 11th circuit appeal, the prosecutor will likely take the case to the Supreme Court as an option to keep the federal case against Trump alive.

Speaking to ABC News, former federal prosecutor Josh Naftalis suggested that Smith could even bypass the 11th circuit altogether with an expedited appeal, meaning the Supreme Court could rule on the arguments immediately.

"This is probably another Supreme Court case, for better or for worse," Naftalis said.

The rest is at the link.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jul 24 - 11:05 PM

The Stormy Daniels GoFundMe account pushed up the goal and hasn't met it yet - I think pushing it up was a mistake, but perhaps the change in the landscape as far as Harris now at the top of the ticket may cause people to want to put the Stormy Daniels issues to bed. They reached the $1M goal, but then changed it to $1.25M. It's at $1,077,508 right now.

Trump is now the oldest candidate ever, and after making a huge case against Biden's age, not only is Trump old, he's an indicted and convicted criminal. He chose a VP candidate with few qualifications based upon conditions that no longer exist. Trump's a rambling idiot, terribly flawed, and the discussion has come up about the GOP trying to push him out of the race. Not likely - Trump is in it for himself, not for the country or his party.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jul 24 - 04:50 PM

Trump demanded that the NY hush money case (in which he was found guilty) be set aside. This after the supreme court gave him a lot of cover for future crimes he might commit should he become dictator.

From Raw Story:

DA Alvin Bragg responds to Trump's demand to kill verdict in hush money case

Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg issued a response Thursday to Donald Trump's attempt to dismiss the ruling in the Stormy Daniels hush money case.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled earlier this month that Trump is immune from criminal prosecution for official acts carried out when president. Justices left it to lower courts to decide what is and is not an "official act."

Trump's lawyers took the ruling and used it to demand that the guilty verdict by the jury in the so-called "hush money case" be vacated. The lawyers asked Judge Juan Merchan if they could file a motion to set aside the verdict and have a hearing.

Bragg's filing claims the New York case had nothing to do with official acts as the crimes took place before he was elected.

The brief says that Trump's arguments are "largely unpreserved." To make such an argument, Trump must have raised them during or before Trial and he didn't, it says.

Responding to the document, former ethics czar and impeachment lawyer Norm Eisen called it "devastating" for Trump's case.

"The Supreme Court official acts immunity decision in Trump v. US is bad enough," he said on X. "But as the DA points out, Trump's efforts to stretch it to cover this UNOFFICIAL acts case is even worse.

The rest of the story is at the link.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Aug 24 - 11:31 PM

One of Trump's former attorneys, Jenna Ellis, who was changed in Georgia and pled guilty, is now agreeing to cooperate in the Arizona case against fake electors.

Ex-Trump attorney Jenna Ellis agrees to cooperate in Arizona 'fake elector' case
The state is dropping the charges against Ellis in exchange for her cooperation.

Trump wasn't charged in this case, but it is more of the body of evidence against his co-conspirators that will also work against him (as life gets worse for those folks more of them are liable to testify against Trump).

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 24 - 08:16 PM

Trump is struggling - but has agreed to a debate on Sept. 10. Shortly after that his sentence will be pronounced. I'm really really really hoping the judge gives him real time to serve. It would serve him right.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Aug 24 - 08:17 PM

IF I can make the following link work, it is a Forbes article
with a timeline on the Trump legal cases.

Trump's Legal Cases

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 24 - 09:39 PM

Here's the Just Security Clearinghouse to keep track, if you've exceeded your freed Forbes articles this month. That Forbes article gives some interesting information; the Clearinghouse has a lot more court appointments that Trump has to keep track of.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Aug 24 - 12:05 PM

The Georgia case has several well-deserved convictions already but hit a wall with the Supreme Court decision that presidential "official acts" couldn't be used as evidence in cases. Willis didn't help herself in being involved with a coworker, though that was settled and set aside.

Clearinghouse: Georgia Election Interference Case

The E. Jean Carroll case appeal should be happening soon. E. Jean Carroll seeks to expedite Trump’s appeal of verdict from first defamation civil trial

Lawyers for E. Jean Carroll have asked a federal appeals court to expedite Donald Trump’s appeal of the verdict in their first trial in which a jury awarded Carroll $5 million in damages after finding Trump liable for defamation and battery in May 2023.

Carroll wants to see the oral arguments for the appeal scheduled to take place by July, arguing that the former president will try to further delay the proceedings, using his ongoing criminal trial or busy campaign schedule as an excuse.

The motion with the 2nd US Circuit Court of Appeals filed Tuesday cites Trump’s numerous attempts to delay both trials with Carroll as a signal that he’s likely to drag out the appeal.

“Donald J. Trump has demonstrated a clear pattern of dilatory, obstructionist, and bad faith conduct throughout these proceedings. With the pendency of the general presidential election campaign (which will intensify in the fall), not to mention several active state and federal criminal proceedings, Mr. Trump may well contend that any oral argument scheduled for later in 2024 must be deferred until early 2025 – at which point he could be preparing for an inauguration or awaiting another criminal trial,” the motion says.

Carroll's attorneys asked for July but it looks like the hearing is on Sept. 6. In a meeting that gives just 10 minutes per side to speak I don't know if this is to arrange a bigger hearing or if this is the whole thing, in a nutshell.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Aug 24 - 12:59 PM

The Manhattan DA is deferring to Judge Merchan if he wants to go ahead with September sentencing or postpone till after the election. At Trump's request, of course. It's time Trump faced the music, let's hope Merchan goes forward and sentences him to prison time. No one deserves it more than the Donald.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Aug 24 - 12:04 PM

Special Prosecutor Jack Smith isn't backing down after the Supreme Court gave Trump vast power to evade prosecution. The original Jan. 6 indictment that was stalled while a question went to the Supreme Court was 45 pages; the new one, that was run past a new grand jury, is 36 pages. It pares down the accusations and removes the bit from Trump tangling with the Justice Department over a lot of the Jeffrey Clark stuff. Instead of calling him President Trump it refers to him in his role as Candidate Trump to distinguish that what he was doing on Jan. 6 wasn't presidential. This document is called a superseding indictment.

Trump indicted again in election subversion case brought by Jack Smith
The 36-page indictment, secured Tuesday by the special counsel, is an attempt to recalibrate the case after the Supreme Court’s immunity decision.

Both sides face a Friday deadline to propose next steps to U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan, the Biden appointee who is overseeing the proceedings in the trial court. Chutkan has scheduled a Sept. 5 hearing to set a course for the case.

Trump pleaded not guilty to the initial indictment and has repeatedly decried the prosecution as a political vendetta. After the new indictment was unveiled on Tuesday, Trump called it “ridiculous” in a post on his social media site, Truth Social.

“For them to do this immediately after our Supreme Court Victory on Immunity and more, is shocking,” Trump wrote.

Trump thinks he got a "get out of jail free" card from the Supreme Court - and it's close to that, but he has committed so many crimes that this current indictment was still possible.

The new indictment seeks to rely on a distinction the Supreme Court drew between a president’s private actions (which can be the subject of criminal charges) and actions that stem from a president’s official powers (which now carry a large degree of immunity).

In an apparent bid to downplay any connection between Trump’s official duties and his bid to overturn Joe Biden’s victory, the new indictment repeatedly emphasizes the political and personal nature of many of the actions Trump took during the post-election period and on Jan. 6, 2021.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 28 Aug 24 - 04:33 PM

Thanks for that explanation, Stilly. I have read a few reports and seen a couple on TV and it was a bit confusing. Trump's reliance on his literal "get out of jail free" card from the Supreme Court is hopefully on shaky ground.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 Aug 24 - 11:00 AM

The Trump team request for a delay to the September 18th sentencing has been rejected, mostly on technicalities (Newsweek).
Of course there is going to be an appeal and all, but I hope they get the sentencing overwith already. it's been long enough.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Aug 24 - 04:05 PM

More about that development from The Hill

The court, in its notice, claimed the filing was “deficient,” according to the docket. It has been sent back to the attorneys because they failed to attach written permission from the court or prosecutors, per the note to his attorney Emil Bove.

“The filing is deficient for the following reason(s): the PDF attached to the docket entry for the pleading is not correct; the wrong event type was used to file the pleading; Court’s leave has not been granted; the order granting permission to file the pleading was not attached,” the notice reads.

So it looks like they may refile after the holiday with the correct attachments and the right size PDFs.

Trump is still trying to get the hush money case set aside claiming there are official "presidential acts" that were shown to the jury.

The "Court's leave has not been granted" is an interesting phrase.

Meanwhile, I wonder what life is like for Trump's parole officer?

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 31 Aug 24 - 06:17 PM

And I wonder what life is like for his security guards. Are they contemplating how their possible time in jail will be, accompanying a felonious Trump.

I'm also wondering whether Trump is very busy in the background, attempting to squirrel away as many of his assets as he can to try to prevent too much in financial penalties. He must be thanking his (very strange) god for those campaign donations.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Sep 24 - 11:37 AM

We are into uncharted territory, since no other US presidents have been put on trial, let alone come this close to being imprisoned. Many argue that Dubya should have been sent to The Hague for war crimes for Iraq; he is at least guilty of following really bad advice from the hawks in his administration. But even there, he was in the realm of "normal human being." Trump in prison - they may need to restore and reopen some abandoned facility that is run jointly by the State (he was tried and convicted in New York) and the Secret Service. There's an interesting thought exercise! (Let's continue to keep this focussed on Trump. The Bush mention was for illustration purposes only.)

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 02 Sep 24 - 05:50 AM

Are they about to finally find a use for Gitmo Bay :-) ?

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 02 Sep 24 - 06:46 AM

That thought crossed my mind too, MaJoC, but even better would be a glass-fronted cell like his hero, Hannibal Lecter.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 02 Sep 24 - 09:33 AM

> a glass-fronted cell

Be careful what you wish for, Helen. In Sam Coates's podcast (The Rest Is Politics) this morning, there was a horrible screaming match between two cats: the one that Sam's the staff for, and next door's ("his nemesis," said Sam). They were apparently nose-to-nose and giving it everything, in the sure and certain knowledge that the pane of glass between them meant that neither would have to actually follow through with claws.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 02 Sep 24 - 10:43 AM

Yes, but then the ultimate torture would be watching the Secret Service guys eating burger and fries while he only gets to eat prison slop.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 24 - 06:09 PM

The news is reporting again about Judge Chutkan and that she has granted Trump one request - that he doesn't need to attend the new arraignment on election interference (fraud) charges (to be filed again by Jack Smith). Judge Chutkan Grants Donald Trump's First Request Since New Indictment

To paraphrase the old saying, the US courts grind slowly (with so many obstacles thrown in the way by Trump) but they grind exceedingly fine. It's going to do more than just pinch when all is said and done.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 24 - 12:55 PM

In Deciding When to Sentence Trump, Judge Faces ‘Impossible’ Task
Justice Juan M. Merchan has tried to treat Donald J. Trump like the hundreds of other defendants whose fates he has decided. But his decision could alter American history.

This is a gift article from my NY Times account so you should all be able to read the whole thing.

“The judge is in an impossible situation, and one that doesn’t lend itself to easy comparisons,” said Charles Geyh, a law professor at Indiana University Bloomington who specializes in judicial conduct and ethics, adding that Justice Merchan’s decision would carry “historical implications.”

While Mr. Trump has already been deemed a felon, if Justice Merchan postpones his sentencing until after the Nov. 5 election, the American people will vote without knowing whether Mr. Trump will spend time behind bars.

A delay would also reward the stalling tactics Mr. Trump has deployed throughout the case, and feed the very impression the judge has labored to dispel — that the former president is above the law.

Tuning out the political noise will be a tough job when it is a full cacophony.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Sep 24 - 11:49 AM

I have no links, but there have been interesting comparisons in the news
of the two judges in two different cases --
the hush-money case and the election-interference case --
and how very differently they are handling their schedules.
One judge is erring on the side of caution by delaying the sentencing;
the other judge is dismissive of the whole election situation.

Not to mention the civil case about the sexual abuse/defamation
which brought Trump into court in person this week.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 04:22 PM

The Georgia case, regarding election interference, originally had
13 charges against Donald Trump. Several have been thrown out,
but there are still 8 counts remaining (ABC News).

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 08:07 PM

The judge removed three counts that involved perjury or false statements that fall under federal jurisdiction.

NBC News:

The original 41-count indictment accused Trump and several of his allies of a broad scheme to overturn the results of the 2020 election in Georgia, but the case has been stalled for months as an effort to disqualify the top prosecutor remains on appeal.

Judge Scott McAfee upheld a challenge to the sweeping racketeering charge Thursday but wrote in his decision that certain counts involving allegations of filing false documents should no longer go forward because they belong in federal, not state, court.

“Because Counts 14, 15, and 27 lie beyond this State’s jurisdiction and must be quashed, the Defendants’ motions to dismiss the indictment under the Supremacy Clause are granted in part,” McAfee wrote.

There's still plenty to try his fat ass on.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Sep 24 - 10:47 AM

'scuse my ignorance but if the judge ruled that they were not in the states remit, can he be tried elsewhere for those charges?

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Sep 24 - 11:56 AM

The federal government. They have their hands full with enough other trials right now that probably nothing new will emerge, at least for the time being.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 24 - 12:00 PM

Trump may be engaging on this next criminal enterprise: Crypto currency.

This article comes from Wall Street On Parade, a newsletter run by Wall Street watchdogs Russ and Pam Martens.
As Trump Launches a Crypto Firm, FBI Reports Crypto Fraud Has Exploded to $5.6 Billion; Representing Almost 50 Percent of All Financial Fraud

Last Thursday, the Senate Banking Committee held a hearing on combating financial frauds against consumers. During the hearing, Senator Jon Tester of Montana held up his mobile phone and said: “Everyday, everyday, I either get an email or a phone call from somebody who’s trying to screw me out of my money.”

According to the FBI, it is highly likely that a large number of the people trying to screw both you and Senator Tester out of your money are crypto fraudsters. On September 9, the FBI released its 2023 report on crypto fraud, which made the following findings:

“In 2023, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) received more than 69,000 complaints from the public regarding financial fraud involving the use of cryptocurrency, such as bitcoin, ether, or tether. Estimated losses with a nexus to cryptocurrency totaled more than $5.6 billion.”

“While the number of cryptocurrency-related complaints represents only about 10 percent of the total number of financial fraud complaints, the losses associated with these complaints account for almost 50 percent of the total losses.”

“The decentralized nature of cryptocurrency, the speed of irreversible transactions, and the ability to transfer value around the world make cryptocurrency an attractive vehicle for criminals, while creating challenges to recover stolen funds.” (Bold emphasis on the word “irreversible” was added by Wall Street On Parade.)

“Once an individual sends a payment, the recipient owns the cryptocurrency and often quickly transfers it into an account overseas for cash out purposes.”

These transactions are instant and irrevocable. Just the kind of fraud that Trump loves.

The FBI report breaks down the amount of financial fraud by age group, with the finding that people over 60 years of age are the number one target for crypto fraudsters. These seniors account for $1.6 billion of the $5.6 billion lost to crypto fraud in 2023, or 29 percent of the total.

Given the increasing role that crypto is playing in fraud against the most vulnerable citizens in the U.S., one has to seriously question Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s decision last evening to announce that he and his family are launching a crypto firm called World Liberty Financial.

That said, here's a clue to their involvement:

“A copy of an early internal report, known as a white paper and obtained by CoinDesk, listed Barron [Trump] as ‘Chief DeFi Visionary,’ Eric and Donald Jr. as ‘Web3 Ambassadors,’ and Trump Sr. as ‘Chief Crypto Advocate.’

“But while the Trumps will receive compensation from the project, the platform itself is ‘not owned, managed, operated or sold’ by members of the Trump family.

“[Steve] Witkoff, a real estate investor, and Eric Trump, executive vice president of the Trump Organization, are the two people calling the shots at World Liberty Financial, according to a person familiar with the project. Both are new to the crypto industry.”

Training his youngest to start the family grift businesses early.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Sep 24 - 06:39 PM

Today is September 18 and before the postponements, this was to be a big day for one of the criminal cases.
But because of the postponement, the big day is December something.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Sep 24 - 06:56 PM

My mistake, it looks more like late November.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 23 Sep 24 - 08:45 AM

> " .... Both are new to the crypto[currency] industry."

The trade term for them is "marks". Every poker table has at least one sucker sitting at it: if you can't see them, go look in a mirror.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part II
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Sep 24 - 12:00 PM

Trump is still trying to find that golden ticket, the piece of merchandise that will make him rich. Donald Trump drops more campaign merch: A silver 'Trump Coin' priced at $100
Former president Donald Trump announced the sale of a $100 limited edition silver coin that has his 'beautiful face' on it.

While the "God Bless the USA Bible" is fairly accessible, Trump's "Never Surrender" high-top sneakers have become difficult to find for the shoe's retail price of $399. To purchase the shoe, buyers would have to look on eBay and other online marketplaces. One eBay user listed a pair of Trump's sneakers for a buy-now price of $9,900.

Trump's MAGA hats have been popular among his supporters since his initial campaign in 2016. Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner wrote in his memoir that the MAGA hats earned the Republican candidate's 2016 campaign up to $80,000 per day, the New York Post reported.

The good thing about that $9,900 pair of shoes on eBay? Chances are that is sold by a collector, to a desperate Trump fan. Trump won't see another penny from that pair of shoes. The bling is presumably marketed as a separate revenue stream for the Trump family while he uses political donations to pay his legal bills.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Sep 24 - 09:21 AM

How about Trump watches? Collect 'em all!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/09/27/donald-trump-launches-collection-branded-watches/

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 27 Sep 24 - 11:15 AM

> Trump watches

Thought 1: Do they have Mickey-Mouse hands?

Thought 1a: .... or just small ones?

> Trump watches

Thought 2: I sincerely hope he doesn't.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Sep 24 - 11:36 AM

Someone should tell him that his family jewels are showing . . .

CNN pretty well covers it in their headline Trump hawks $100,000 watches as he leverages his candidacy for profit

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Sep 24 - 06:00 PM

And have you tried the new Trump cologne?

https://gettrumpsneakers.com/products/fight-fight-fight-cologne-for-men

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 28 Sep 24 - 10:20 AM

> the new Trump cologne

Good grief: he's selling his bottled farts. "This too was a vanity, an a striving after wind" (Ecclesiastes)

.... Does one buy that with a gag order?

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Sep 24 - 06:15 PM

When I navigate to the site in the cologne link above my Fakespot browser extension pops up and cautions "Potential Seller Issues" and "Limited Internet Presence." Ha. Just limited because of this new site. Anyway, it seems to be a suitable warning for the site.

Trump is entangled with christian nationalist activists who have supported his causes in several venues. In particular the Supreme Court. Here is a Mother Jones article by Rob Schenck, a former member of the group.

My organization, Faith and Action in the Nation’s Capital, had created an initiative we called “Operation Higher Court” that trained wealthy couples as “stealth missionaries,” befriending Thomas and his wife, Ginni; Samuel and Martha-Ann Alito; and Antonin and Maureen Scalia—­lavishing­ them with meals at high-end restaurants and invitations to luxurious vacation properties. Alongside these amenities, our ministry offered prayers, gift Bibles, and the assurance that millions of believers thanked God for the decisions this trio of justices rendered on abortion, health care, marriage, and gun ownership. . . . When President George W. Bush nominated Roberts for chief justice, I was in a private box seat at the Senate confirmation hearing. At Alito’s confirmation, I was the guest of Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, the three-time Senate Judiciary Committee chair. And when Donald Trump chose Neil Gorsuch after Scalia’s death, not only was I present for the hearing, but a month before, I had coordinated prayers for Gorsuch and his family in a nearby chapel. On more than one occasion, I knelt in prayer alongside Mike Pence (when he was a member of Congress from Indiana) and other lawmakers in the vanguard of the new right.

Sometimes it takes a while for all of the penny to drop for folks in these organizations. This is a long read, so far I've skimmed it but will go back to read closely this evening. From Schenk, "My change of course so late in life has been painful, disorienting, and costly."

It took two years to extract myself. I dismantled the organization I had spent more than two decades building, walking away from a multimillion-dollar donor base. ­I called countless people to explain why I was leaving the movement I’d helped lead. ­I reached out to others to beg their pardon for the harm I had inflicted. I repented in prayer for my errors and the damage they caused. Then, I privately dedicated the rest of my life to doing as much repair as possible.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Oct 24 - 05:29 PM

Trump can run but he can't hide his past bad behavior, Jack Smith has seen to that and Judge Chutkan concurs. Even if the Trump folks manage to get some of today's information excluded, it is out there in the world.

Special counsel Jack Smith provides fullest picture yet of his 2020 election case against Trump in new filing

A federal judge in Washington, DC, has released the most comprehensive narrative to date of the 2020 election conspiracy case against Donald Trump, outlining what special counsel Jack Smith describes as the former president’s “private criminal conduct.”

The 165-page document comes from Smith’s office and is the fullest accounting yet of evidence in the election subversion case against Trump.

Throughout the document, Smith argues that the actions Trump took to overturn the election were in his private capacity – as a candidate – rather than in his official capacity, as a president. That argument flows from the Supreme Court’s decision in July, which granted the former president sweeping immunity for official actions but left the door open for prosecutors to pursue Trump for unofficial steps he took.

”At its core, the defendant’s scheme was a private one,” prosecutors wrote in the motion. “He extensively used private actors and his campaign infrastructure to attempt to overturn the election results and operated in a private capacity as a candidate for office.”

The filing weaves together what prominent witnesses told a federal grand jury and the FBI about Trump, along with other never-before-disclosed evidence investigators gathered about the former president’s actions leading up to and on January 6, 2021.

Releasing the motion, which was previously filed under seal, is the latest major development in Smith’s longstanding effort to prosecute Trump for actions he took to overturn the 2020 election, even as the former president is seeking a second term in a tight race with Vice President Kamala Harris. The case, which has already reached the Supreme Court once, has repeatedly been delayed as Trump has attempted to push off the prosecution until after the next month’s election.

Here is the 165-page document if anyone wants to read it.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 09:11 PM

This thread is still here and open. And Letitia James, the AG of NY congratulated Trump - kind of - but made it clear he isn't going to walk all over them. The next couple of weeks might be interesting. There are some bills coming due for Mr. Trump that he can't pardon himself out of.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 09:20 PM

Bring it on!! :-D

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 11:05 PM

Would Trump be allowed to make decisions from a prison cell?

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 03:22 AM

would it not make more sense to give him harsh financial penalties plus prevent him from running his enterprises, removing or cutting presedential salary

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 03:39 AM

Yet another possibilty Trump decides to improve conditions for prisoners as he is likely to be affected

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 10:22 AM

Dick, this thread is about Trump's legal problems. Let's follow the legal cases here and stop speculating on Vance and Israel.

A sentence would be something that would no doubt be set aside by a state judge on appeal. Trump in jail isn't going to happen, probably ever, since Judge Cannon tanked the most concrete case of his misbehavior. He won't let anyone else get enough information on him going forward (because he'll declassify everything he wants to keep). He can't avoid the expenses he has incurred already but he'll figure out how to enrich himself while he's in office. If in two years the house and senate change hands then he might be held accountable. But it didn't happen that way the last time. We're just stuck with the criminal class in the White House and world leaders are lining up to pour money into his coffers. An unserved prison sentence will be a footnote on his Wikipedia page.