Sick Of The Democratic Party

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: number 6
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 06:46 PM

Years ago I had a suede jacket with a fringe.

sIx

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 06:48 PM

In order to win an election, you need big money.

In Canada, we already know the Liberals are crooks but they will probably win again. In Vancouver, we actually had honest politicians in city hall, on the Parks board and on the School board. They were voted out. I have no idea why. Seems to me that whoever is in power is hated and voted out at the first possibility.

I can't comment on who should succeed Bush because I'm not in the U.S. I can, however, tell you that Bush has nearly ruined the U.S. in more ways than one. He is worse than a crook. He's a traitor.

I was never a Clinton fan either but only because he was schmarmy.

I agree that Obama might be a good choice for president. He is an intelligent human being and seems to understand the needs of the people. I think he would also be a good diplomat. Thats about the only U.S. candidate that it worth listening to.

I hope that the citizens of the U.S. wake up and smell the roses because you have been given so much. Maybe thats the problem. You are like the spoiled, self indulgent rich kids who really don't give a damn about anything other than self gratification. Bush is just a symptom of decay.

I know that most Mudcatters do not fall into that category but I can't help but wonder why, with so much warning from the rest of the world, Bush has managed to take you all down the perilous hiway and why so many continue to support him and make excuses for his behaviour. Why can't men like this be stopped?

Rather than a war on terrorism, I think we need a war on greed.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 06:48 PM

hey, pdq!..That list of Clinton's 'transgressions' is 1)old 2)largely discredited and shown to be accusations, not facts... and 3)is a list by an arch-conservative rag!

Show me a list done by even a SEMI-neutral media outlet that takes that stuff seriously!

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: number 6
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 06:51 PM

"I think we need a war on greed."

Agreed dianavin ... unfortuantely the bad guys in this war have all the money ... be a hard bloody one to beat.

sIx

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 07:29 PM

Oh, heck, Martin, to be a Republican in Illinois is easy: all you need is to move elsewhere. Someplace like Kinderhook or Mendon or New Berlin or Big Neck. Especially Big Neck. Big Neck needs Republicans. Hell, Big Neck needs a population. Wasn't anyone living there the last time I went through.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 07:33 PM

Hey, Bobert: I know the Green Party's ideas and agree with most of them. If you read my opening statements it's that "I question how effective the Green Party can be." If it has as little an impact on the next election as it did on the last one, I don't believe it's going to make a difference. I know that the general thinking is that a third party can influence the platform of one of the major parties, or at least bring issues to the fore. I question how much either of those wishes come true. I didn't see any influence wielded in the last election. I think the issues that will drive the next election are the ones that usually drive an election. The economy, Stupid (not you Bobert) and the situation in Iraq. It's easy to compile a list six blocks long about the crimes, great and small, of any President. As long as it doesn't hurt the pocket book, people will just shrug it off as "that's politics." I'm glad that Martin (Who I am 100% in agreement with on this issue) stopped voting so that he could get his street plowed first. He's wised up, but there are many people who vote for a candidate for equally silly reasons.

As for Bush, I'd rather see the Green Party's energy and those who are concerned about this country start mobilizing so that we don't just get another Bush-lite in the White House next time around. Or a wishy-washy Democrat who runs on a campaign full of condemnation of the Republicans and empty on concrete policies.

My son, was quite involved with the Green Party last election but has started to question how effective they can really be. If it's just to get together and feel good about being righter than everyone else, they won't accomplish a whole lot. Like me, he's not really sure where to turn. For all of his candor and generally good ideas, I'm not at all comfortable with Howard Dean. I suspect he'll shoot himself in the foot real good if he starts campaigning.

And if they were successful in impeaching Bush, you want Cheney as President?... Hey, Peace... can I sleep in your barn tonight?

Jerry

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Peace
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 07:36 PM

Feingold. Than maybe . . . .

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 07:46 PM

Among the Republicans, McCain. Among the Democrats...I dunno. Certainly not John Kerry, and I think Hilary Clinton would lose more states than she'd gain. Obaka, definitely, even if he is a first-time Senator. Bob Kerrey is a long shot darkhorse.

Did anyone else here that Rumsfeld has reorganized the DoD so the if the Sec. of Defense slot is vacant an administrator and not one of the Service Secretaries (Army, Navy, Air Force) gets the job? True -- just in the last couple days.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 07:47 PM

These three articles are worth a look. sometimes change comes quietly, "out of left field"..!

10 Good Things about Another Bad Year

Behind Veil of Iraq War, Winds of Peace

Optimism for Progressives in 2006

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 08:02 PM

Well, Jerry, the largest part of the problem is money and the second largest problem is timing...

95% of elections are won by the candidate that spent the most money on his or her campaign... And money has so completely corruptyed our system of governemnt that as a Green I can yell at the top of my lungs and not too many fols will hear me...

Every developed country in the world has nationalized health care except the United States... The Green Party is the only party that is advocating national health care... The Green Party is the only party that is talking about nationally financed elections which will take the corruption outta our system... The Green Party is the only party who is calling for the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy to be rolled back... The Green party is the only party that is trying to bring to the average American workers attention that the existing two party sytem isn't that at all but two rival fraternities...

Yes, we do stand for stuff...

Now, the timing thing I spoke about... At some point in time, as in any revolution (armed or non-violent) the working class kida collectively figgures it's getting screwed... Folks say this can't happen here??? Bull-feathers... Not only can it happen BUT it will happen!!! Hey, I'm not sure what it will take but it **will** happen... It has happened in every "great" society in history and it **will** happen... And when (not if) if happens, the Green Party will jump into fill that need of angry folks who have collectively decided that they aren't going to take any more of Boss Hog's corporate screwings...

Now, lastly, I believe the timing thning has byut pushed alot closer by the stuff that Bush has done...

Take, for example, the recent "bankruptcy" legislation which exempts credit card companies, which charge usary rates and are responsible for lots of our kids having to drop out of college, from the list of creditors who won't get paid... Mom and pop companies will get screwed but not the big corporate fat cats... But that's not the entire story... The rest of the story which accelerates that timing thing is that the Bush adminsitration has let any loosing corporation, irregarless of how mych their CEO's make, to "re-orgainze" under Chapter 11 and then force their employees to take pay cuts and benefit cuts...

This is just one issue... There are a string of them where the DEM's aren't standing up, spending what money they have to try to bring some sanity to our governemnt...

Like I said, revolution is guarentted in this greed driven country and when the avergae Joe Sixpack changes his mind about the system, the system won't get him back with NASCAR and beer... It will be too late for the "system"..

Meanwile, we Greens will be ready to provide ideas and leadership... We allready have the ideas...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 08:14 PM

"I am not a member of an organized political party, I'm a Democrat."

- Will Rogers


Jerry, I too am very disappointed with the politics of the era. If I had to -very briefly- compress the situation that the US is in party-wise, I would say that the Republicans are evil, the Democrats are cowards.

The US Electorate will choose evil over cowards every time.

Having got that out of the way, I'll admit it's pretty facetious. I think there are many Dems and Reps who are aghast at what their parties have become.

'W' and his ilk did not come from nowhere. They reflect the US - possibly the world - of today which has been softened by having motors and engines do all our work, made vain by the shifting of much of production labor to non union overseas/ out of sight locations, made carefree by having volunteer fighting forces, and made lazy by entitlement programs which fight each other to sap the nation's treasure, made into peons by the worship of celebrity.

The important thing is to get to work, find some folk who you can associate with, and act like you give a damn. If you can see yourself working to make the Democratic party better, go for it. If you must go start putting together a new party, better'n nothin'.

Advice I may sometime take for myself.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: GUEST,The Clothes Have No Emperor!
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 08:16 PM

Read THIS.

Then read THIS.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 08:24 PM

Guest: Couldn't take the time to read both articles, but I liked the first one. I too believe that it's time for progressives to retake the Democratic party.

And as an aside, I think It's time for the silent majority of Christians to take control of Christianity and show waht a powerful force non-judgmental love, and inclusiveness can be. What passes for conservative Christianity would make Christ roll over in his grave. If he was dead.. -)

Jerry

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 08:32 PM

I might read the book but I think I could have written it but as fir the first link??? Forget it... You ain't gonna change the Dems from joining them... They are, like their Repub. counterparts, too corrupted by money...

I hate to say it but they will just have to continuie loosing eloections before they might have the balls to say, "We won't take soft money"... No we won't play the "Pioneers'n'-Rangers-Extortion-Game" that the Repubs perfected...

When they throw out the corporate fat cats you'll know that they are a 2nd party... Until then???

Bobert

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 08:43 PM

Hey Bobert, ole buddy: Looks like what we have is an honest difference of opinion. The only difference is that we have a different idea how to approach the problem ... and that you have all the answers, and I still have a lot of questions.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: GUEST,The Emperor Has No Clothes!
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 08:47 PM

Anybody hear the Capitol Steps on NPR this morning?

"Koo-koo-kah-choo, Reverend Robertson,
Jesus really doesn't like your show!
Ho ho ho! ...... "

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:02 PM

No, Jerry, I don't have "all the answers" but I do feel very stringly that Green Party folks shouldn't be harrassed back into the Democratic Party because it's the only way to change the Democratic Party...

Like you, I grew up as a Democrat... I worked several campaigns and actually was a paid staff memebr in the Bobby Kennedy campaign... I worked for Jimmy Carter... I've worked more recently with local Democrats candidates... My business partent is a Democrat and sits on Town Coucil in Leesburg...

But, and I guess that where maybe your son and I agree to disagree with you is why the Democratic Party thinks it has the right to reel Greens back into the fold when the democrats won't make consessions... They cannot serve the corporate fat cats and the Joe Sixpack at the same time... They need to choose...

Can't serve two masters, you know...

Hey, throw us a few ***meaningful*** bones and we can talk...

The 90's was embarrassing... We ain't gonna do that again... Clinton wasn't a progressive at all... Might of fact, he turned out to be more conservative that a lot of Repubs... Yeah, we need the kinda leadership that isn't afarid of ther gun lobby, isn't afraid of to push for true campaign finaning... Clinton backed down... Okay, I could forgive him in the first term but the 2nd??? No forgiveness here, my friend... He should have had half the balls that Bush has and at least gotten some seeds p-lanted for progressive change... He was a major disappointment...

And the Dems were, as well...

Like I siad, and I am not speaking for anyone but my Green self: Throw us some meaningfull bones and I'll talk... Hey, we may only represent 3% but in these times, 3% is large with the partisans split 48/48...

Ball is in your court...

Bro Bobert

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: GUEST,The Clothes Have No Emperor!
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:03 PM

Actually, the silent majority of Christians are starting to speak out. This book (Clicky #1) and this one (Clicky #2) are currently being discussed in many churches' adult forums and religious book clubs. Also, both Willis and Carter are doing a lot of lecturing and appearing on a lot of talk shows.

These are only two. There are others.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: GUEST,The Clothes, etc.
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:06 PM

Sorry! "Wallis," not "Willis."

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:22 PM

Hey, Bobert: Neither my son nor I think that the Green Party should just be rolled into the Democratic party. I'd like to see the Green Party's platform argued in the Democratic Party. And not all Democrats are positionless. Rose De Lauro, a Connecticut Democrat is cut from your cloth, Bobert. She actually chaired the last Democratic Convention's Platform Committee. Not that it did much good. But, she is extremely outspoken and has chosen to work within the Democratic party to try to bring change. One thing you and I have in common, Bobert. So far, neither approach has amounted to a hill of beans. Or even P-vines. AT least we haven't given up.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:33 PM

Couple of must reads for all those out there who are supporting the killings of Iraqi people while getting all warm and fuzzy in church on Sundays... TThat warm feeling just may be a prelude of things to come for the right winged Christains who would have Jesus jailed if He were to reappear today amongst us in the flesh...

The problem isn't so much with Faith but the fact that since the 60's the right wingers have split churches down the middle sending many a good Christain to fend wor himself... I have been a member of twochurches where that happened and it is not a pretty sight... And it is so un-Christain... And both of them turned on the ministers, who in each case, were preaching too much New Testament stuff which sesm to make the right wingers real uncomfy...

So, yeah, that have taken over the majority of the churches in the country... Tell ya' what... I pray every day that Jesus will return to clean up this mess that the Heathens have crated... It seems to be almost an impossible task for the real followers of Christ to take on...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:35 PM

Most people vilify lawyers, yet, when one of them gets to be president, suddenly he is supposed to be a paragon of virtue. Who is the fool here?

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:42 PM

Hear, hear, Kendall...

Spoken like a true statesman!!!

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:43 PM

Hey Clothes Guest: I've seen the title of the Wallis book in passing. Thanks for posting it. I just ordered a copy.

Hey Bobert... unless you have done a scientific survey of the churches in this country I suspect that your statement that the Right Wing has taken over the majority of the churches in this country is just a personal guess. I don't know how prevalent the Religious Right is across the country. They sure don't carry any weight in any of the churches I go to. I think they are primarily in the Southern Baptist branch. Even there, the previous Pastor of one of the churches I go to is Southern Baptist and you couldn't find a more warm, loving Christ-filled person than him. I'm sorry that you've had the experiences that you've had and I don't doubt their truth. It's just dangerous for us to take our own personal experiences and project them into a broad generality. When my sons used to do that, I'd say in my most sonorus radio voice, "According to a recent nationwide poll"... and then let my voice trail off. When they'd catch me making an unsubstantiated generality, they'd say the same thing to me. It was a humorous way to remind us all that we live in a very, very miniscule part of the world and it's foolish to project our personal experiences into broad generalities.
When I do it, I appreciate someone catching me on it...

Jerry

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 10:01 PM

Yer right, Jerry... I don't have any scientific data on this one... The two churchs I have seen split up by the conservatives were the Knox Presbyterian Chucrh in Falls Church, Va. and the Leesburg Presbyterian Church in Leesburg, Va... In both cases it were them folks who were against the Vietnam War that were sent packing... To this very day, folks who used to worship together don't even acknowledge each other in public...

It wasn't pretty and while I only say the Knox Church real close up, the Leesburg slpit I only had to hear about from my parents who were on the wrong side of the split...

When the P-Vine and I were auditioning churches a couple years ago we found several (in either Virginia or West Virginia) that were very intolerant... Fortunately, tho, we have found a church were folks very much are into the teachings of Jesus...

Plus, you live in New England and folks in New England are the more enlighted and tolerant, generally speaking, with perhaps the West coast... And, if I understand it correct, you also attend a predominantly black chucrh... Black folks, in general, get the New Testamant... When I lived in Richmond, I attended black churches because it felt right and the folks were tolerant (in general, that is...)...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 10:07 PM

I think this should be a music thread:

ONE MILLION LAWYERS
by Tom Paxton

Humankind has survived some disasters, I'm sure.
Like locusts and flash floods and flu.
There's never a moment when we've been secure
From the ills that the flesh is heir to.
If it isn't a war, it's some gruesome disease.
If it isn't disease, then it's war.
But there's worse still to come, and I'm asking you please
How the world's gonna take any more?

(CHORUS:)

In ten years we're gonna have one million lawyers,
One million lawyers, one million lawyers.
In ten years we're gonna have one million lawyers.
How much can a poor nation stand?

The world shook with dread of Atilla the Hun
As he conquered with fire and steel,
And Genghis and Kubla and all of the Khans
Ground a groaning world under the heel.
Disaster, disaster, so what else is new?
We've suffered the worst and then some.
So I'm sorry to tell you, my suffering friends,
Of the terrible scourge still to come.

(CHORUS)

(BREAK:)

Oh, a suffering world cries for mercy
As far as the eye can see.
Lawyers around every bend in the road,
Laywers in every tree,
Lawyers in restaurants, lawyers in clubs,
Lawyers behind every door,
Behind windows and potted plants, shade trees and shrubs,
Lawyers on pogo sticks, lawyers in politics!

(CHORUS)

In spring there's tornadoes and rampaging floods,
In summer it's heat stroke and draught.
There's Ivy League football to ruin the fall,
It's a terrible scourge, without doubt.
There are blizzards to batter the shivering plain.
There are dust storms that strike, but far worse
Is the threat of disaster to shrivel the brain,
It's the threat of implacable curse.

In ten years we're gonna have one million lawyers,
One million lawyers, one million lawyers.
In ten years we're gonna have one million lawyers.
How much can a poor nation stand?
How much can a poor nation stand?

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 10:12 PM

And then I found this, an oldie but still oh so true!!

IF YOU LOVE THAT POLITICIAN (PULL THE CHAIN)
by Tom Paxton

(Intro:)

Someone had the right idea out in Iowa.
Palo Alto County had its own straw poll.
Folks who listened to their radio
Were told to flush their toilets so
Their candidate might win the Super Bowl.
Folks in Emmetsburg have got things in perspective
And good common sense that they rely upon.
When the beaming smiles and golden throats
Come shaking hands and begging votes,
The folks in Emmetsburg head for the john.

(Verse:)

If you love that politician, pull the chain.
Send the world of woe and trouble down the drain.
It's the road to satisfaction.
It's a natural reaction.
If you love that politician, pull the chain.

If you like the things he said, use your head.
You can show the world you think he's thoroughbred.
Choose a favorite son or daughter
With a little running water.
If you like the things he said, use your head.

(Break:)

Do you get that familiar feeling
When you hear the things they say?
When they hum their familiar tunes
Do your thoughts all turn to prunes?
Are you headed for Hernando's Hideaway?

If the man gets through to you, use your loo.
If he's not Number One, he's Number Two.
He's the greatest guy on earth.
Why don't you show him what he's worth?
If the man gets through to you, use your loo.

(Repeat Break)

If you love that politician, pull the chain (pull the chain).
Send the world of woe and trouble down the drain.
It's the road to satisfaction.
It's a natural reaction.
If you love that politician, pull the chain.

When you see the ruling gentry,
Why, the answer's alimentary.
If you love that politician, pull the chain

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 10:29 PM

Yeah, Bobert, I am a member of a black Baptist Church. We also regularly attend another Baptist church in our area where the congregation is very mixed... mostly white, but quite a few active blacks in a small congregation. My limited experience with the Missouri Synod of the Methodist Church was very negative as well. Admittedly, it was only two churches, but both left a bad taste in my mouth. Generally speaking I have found the Lutheran Churches I have been involved with and the other branches of the Methodist church to be very open and welcoming. Guess it depends a lot on the Pastor.

Now if I was gay, I'd find the welcome in some churches noticeably different. Even there though, there have been openly gay couples in the Baptist and Lutheran churches I've attended.

But then, I don't worship church. I worship in church. And outta church.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 10:30 PM

The city council races here are supposed to be non-partisan and take in the whole city (which makes sense to me), but of course the political parties let it be known who they support.

Anyway, in the last election (November) a fairly conservative councilman was upset by a fairly liberal (for Idaho) minister. Eight votes to tie, nine to win. That's nine votes, not ninety. Both the winner and the loser are good people and seem to care for the community as a whole -- the loser got himself in bad with the business community!!

And the loser said, "No, I'm not going to ask for a recount. Recounts have torn this country apart and I'm not going to waste city money to do that. It's time for healing." And he shook hands with his challenger and they went off together to have a beer and talk about the city's problems.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 10:39 PM

Sounds like Luray, Rap... Nice story...

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 10:43 PM

Yeah, and what I didn't say is that the current Mayor, a Democrat when he was in the State legislature but now a no-party like the rest of city government (yeah, right) won reelection with two-thirds of the vote -- the same margin he won his original election by over a rabid neo-con. In fact, the extremes who ran for the Council all lost big time no matter WHICH end of the political spectrum they were on. That includes the choice of the Greens and the Libertarians, too.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: MarkS
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 12:04 AM

Glad I live in New Jersey. Our politicians are the best that money can buy.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: mg
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 12:58 AM

I hope that the citizens of the U.S. wake up and smell the roses because you have been given so much. Maybe thats the problem. You are like the spoiled, self indulgent rich kids who really don't give a damn about anything other than self gratification. Bush is just a symptom of decay.

---------

I am quoting from a previous poster. We are from the same part of the world. Do you honestly think folks from your home town are like that? Mine aren't. Does the response after the tsunami and after Katrina give any evidence of that? I think this is a gratuitous insult and should be reconsidered. mg

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 01:17 AM

"hey, pdq!..That list of Clinton's 'transgressions' is 1)old 2)largely discredited and shown to be accusations, not facts... and 3)is a list by an arch-conservative rag!

'Show me a list done by even a SEMI-neutral media outlet that takes that stuff seriously!" Bill D

Thanks, Bill. I can't understand the mindset and morality of some people who keep pushing out stuff that they MUST know is long since discredited. That is wholly dishonest. Not to mention that the people who do it are not doing any digging for themselves- they just cut and paste and then act as though they have accomplished something worthwhile.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 03:58 AM

"Let ye without sin."

Jerry

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 08:19 AM

"Not you, Mother."

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: freda underhill
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 08:28 AM

Nescis, mi fili, quantilla sapientia regitur mundus.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: freda underhill
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 08:34 AM

(Know, by son, with how little wisdom the world is ruled - Julius III)

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 08:42 AM

Good Morning, Jerry...

Late night fir ya', I see...

Well, I guess it's only fair to point out one major dilemma that faces the Dems and I don't have a clue how, short of the "revolution" (non-violent, please) that I spoke of last night...

It's money!!!

The Repubs are better connected to corporate money and that's like an bottomless pit of cash...

Oh yeah, the Bushite's here will say stuff like Kerry had his "chairs" and "co-chairs" to go out and bundle money and they are right... Problem is that Bush had 2 and a half time more "rangers and "pioneers" bundling cash... Plus the goals for the rangwers and pioneers were twice as much as Kerry's ($200,000 and $100,000 for Bush's thugs and $100,000 and $50,00 for Kerry's)...

And the Bushites will howl that the Dems have their 527's and they are correct, the Dems do... But what the Bushites won't say is that they have the 501(c)'s which makes all the money the Dems collected thru 527's look likle chump change... This is why you don't hear the Bushites pounding on the 527's anymore... Yeah, the Busites did complain to the FEC (Federal Election Commison) about the 527's but when they learned that FEC was going to look at the 501(c)'s at the hearing the Bush laywers didn't show up to follow tghru with the complaint...

The largest of the 501(c)'s is "Americans fir Job Security" (AJS) which funnelled tens of billions of dollars in attack ads against Dems in the last election... The problem with the 501(c)'s is that they are totally un-regulated... The donors are not required to be made public and the amounts of cash has no limits!!!

The 501(c)'s arem in essence, shadow parties that have almost complete control of who gets elected...

If the Dems have any chance of breaking their lossing cycle thay have got to go public obn the 501(c)'s and be ready to offer up their 527's as the tradwe off... That would be a major start for them...

Sure the "pioneers and rangers" will still kick their butts $5 to $1 but, hey, get that extra $100M or so away from the Rebubs, will be well worth the sacrifice and will signal the first step toward the Dems standing up against "the best democracy money can buy"...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 09:30 AM

Ah, Bobert, the 501(c)'s include (I assume) the 501(c)3's? Like the American Library Association and Harvard and the Sierra Club and the NAACP? 501(c)6's, like the Customers of Dynix, Inc. (a library automation system users' group) and the National Quilting Association and other "affinity" groups?

All of these are required to file annual reports with IRS or lose their tax-exempt status. NONE of them can contribute to candidates or lobby legislators on any level -- which is why they set up seperate groups to do this, and these fall under a different set of laws.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: number 6
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 11:07 AM

Actually I'm getting sick of politics ... times are concerning when all people do (in real life and cyberland) is talk about how bad things have become politically ... especially over the holidays when family, company go on and on about the assholes governing us and our big neihgbour south of the border.

so ... in the New Year I'm going to stay away from these discussions. Will vote in our upcoming Federal elections and I will stick to arguing with our city council about things that directly affect my community and where I can get some things improved ... even if they are 'small time'.

sIx

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 12:44 PM

'Scuse me, but...

Bobert: Check your PMs. Thanks.

Resume speed.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 01:35 PM

"Let ye without sin." Jerry Rasmussen

Jerry, I disagree that that sentence is applicable in this case. In this case the lie involves spreading slander.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 02:11 PM

about 'sin', accusations, Clinton, and party politics generally:
   It is really, really hard to find anyone in public life with NO little peccadilloes in their past. In this day of WWW searches, wiretaps, and party loyalists whose mission is to FIND dirt about the opposition, and if none is found, to spin rumors into accusations, it's a wonder ANYONE dares run for office! A number of years ago, the press, even when they KNEW stuff,(Roosevelt's and Kennedy's affairs) would not reveal it unless it were relevant.

Bill Clinton (and various Kennedys... as well as other past leaders from Churchill to Kings of England) were human and not perfect...but this bit the Republican are resorting to of trying to "win by innuendo" is getting a bit old!

I want to vote for a president on the issues and based on competence and vision and leadership...not on whether he is "a good Christian" or "supports abortion" or a dozen other narrow-focus bits.

I think we need an ENTIRELY new method of selecting candidates and a COMPLETE revision of the primary system. (and that law in N. Hampshire decreeing that "we MUST be the first primary" should be ruled unconstitutional!

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 03:20 PM

1. Let everyone vote on the same ballot regardless of their party affiliation. After all, if I'm a Democrat and want to vote for the one Republican I think is honest I should be able to do so.

2. Let each candidate be grouped by party affiliation. Under each party group is the "None of the above" choice. Marking that choice negates any other marking done in the group. And if enough voters mark it the partIES have to submit an ENTIRELY NEW set of candidates.

3. "None of the above" for each office in the general election, too.

4. All primaries are held on the same day, a National Holiday and enforced as such.

5. The day of the general election is also a National Holiday and enforced as such.

6. If you don't vote in general election, your taxes double for that year.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 04:49 PM

In Alaska, you have a choice of two ballots. One is for the Republican Party; the other is for all the other parties and candidates. I don't remember just when the Repubs started doing that but it's within the last 10 years, I believe.

I don't understand its rationale. I would think they would want crossover voters. However it might be an indicator of why the Republican Party has been so cohesive and party loyal and perhaps it demonstrates the fragmented condition of the Democrats. Frankly, I much prefer the fragmentation. Unanimity often frightens me.

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 08:10 PM

Actually, Rap, you are only half correct... The report that is filed does not make the donors public, nor does it rerstrict the amount of money that can be funneled thru the 501(c)...

For a good read on the part of the 501(c) that flies well under the radar read Nicholas Confessre's "Bush's Secret Stash, Why the GOP war chest is even bigger than you think", from the Washington Monthly, May, 2004...

You are going to be amazed and if you could provide one of them blue clicky things, I'd sho nuff aoppreciate it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 02:11 AM

Bush's Secret Stash - By Nicholas Confessore

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Hrothgar
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 04:43 AM

I think that one of the major problems in the US is the same as we have in Australia - too many of the people in elected office have never had any occupation but politics, or at least have been n politics so long that they can have only very dim perceptions of anything else.

Don't even think about the second and third generation pollies ...

Subject: RE: Sick Of The Democratic Party
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 07:05 AM

100 !!