BS: Obama is a socialist

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:10 PM

Obama supporters show their colors

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:28 PM

Sawz:

That was pretty disgusting of you to take one weirdo out of a crowd and attribute his behaviour to "Obama supporters" with the direct implication that all supporters of Obama are traitors. In fact, that may be the low-downdest ugliest and stupidest porposition you have had the effrontery to come up with.

You should be ashamed; an apology is in order.

Your hatred is clearly making a clouded, overheated messy stew of your mind.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:04 AM

I am sorry that Amos has to constantly make excessively verbose and obstreperous excuses for the obvious support of Obama by socialists and communists.

Example Ayers threw a party to launch Obama's political career.

Ayers 1995: "Maybe I'm the last communist who is willing to admit it." "I don't like Lenin as much as the early Marx."

Obama writes a newspaper blurb for an Ayers book. The book jacket mentioned Ayres' terrorist activities that Obama calims he was not aware of (I guess he didn't read it):

"A searing and timely account of the juvenile court system, and the courageous individuals who rescue hope from despair.

Michelle Obama chaired a panel for Ayers, and invited her husband to share the stage, to promote a program and the same book by Ayers, to lower sentences and change court attitudes, toward juvenile offenders.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:54 AM

Angry? Who, me?

Hell, I've been chuckling all day! That is, between bouts of yelling "Whoopie!!!" at the top of my lungs. And are the neighbors complaining? No, they're joining in!

Isn't there some sort of twelve-step program for people like Sawzaw?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 05:38 AM

I think the general idea is that they're psyching themselves up to say that an assasination attempt is in order to rescue America from itself.

The Spirit of Timothy Mcveigh and John Wilkes Booth lives on!

Why else persist with this bullshit? Why start it in the first place?

Obama won fair and square on his arguments and the crap record of the party in power at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:09 PM

Talk about showing true colors.
Fox news spots a nut in the crowd, and gives it big play.
A Fox viewer (just as intended) picks it up and spreads it.

Doesn't have anything to do with his statements, history, proposed policies, etc.

But it is great innuendo.

Again, we are not the angry people.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: goatfell
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:12 PM

it's about time really you got a 'socialist' to lead you.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Barry Finn
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:29 PM

Call him whatever you like but he is the best to come along in a long time. Instead of trying to beat him down & seeing as he's in there & there's nothing you can do about it, either get out of the way & stop being an obstacle or get on board & help to make this a better place to live. We've all seen how the party's fighting one another has gotten us & it's what helped to put us in the hole we're in now. Well, that & a few other bad policies.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:35 PM

Sawz:

If you took off your green glasses, you might notice that people from every walk of life and every section of the political spectrum have turned out to celebrate Obama's election.

Your insistence that his sporadic association with Ayers is significant in the overall picture is pathetic, and, I would add, aberrated.

Your use of "scary pushbuttons" like socialism is likewise disingenuous, or else profoundly undiscriminating.

Obama is fiercely in favor of the private ownership of production, of entrepreneurship and the spirit of innovation and private capitalism which has built this country. He is also deeply in favor of a country in which the citizens take responsibility for building a coherent whole, look out for each other, and look for thebest in their fellow-men.

These latter concepts may be beyond you, or they may not, I don't know. But to try and paint them with hated colors is both ucharitable of you, and distinctly twisted.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:22 PM

Surely that's a Republican flag. No doubt they are singing "We'll keep the Red Flag flying here"

Bright red, with the hallowed symbol of the crossed Plumbers Friend and Bowie Knife... No doubt about it, those are hardcore Republicans bravely showing their defiance!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:47 PM

Alaskan Bowie Knife

Plumber's Friend

"Republican Red Gear"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:11 AM

Obama campaign office

Obama supporter

Obama campaign worker

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 06:25 AM

Thanks, Sawzaw - I find those pictures very reassuring...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: bobad
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 06:35 AM

"...you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:17 AM

Couple of years ago there was an exhibition titled "¡Che! Revolution and Commerce."...

This is a review of the exhibition from Ann Althouse' web page....

'In the United States, Che's life story and ambitions seem beside the point, or maybe they've just been reduced to caricature. The guy's face is shorthand for "I'm against the status quo." He's politics' answer to James Dean, a rebel with a very specific cause. And since very few people know anything about the cause, or the rebel -- besides the basics -- the Che shirt has about it the whiff of inside info. It makes you part of the thrift-store intelligentsia, even if your real focus is beer pong.

This, in brief, is why capitalism won. It's the only system that understands that we'd all like to change the world, but we are way too lazy for that sort of thing. Especially if there's ice cream around. When you get done with a Cherry Guevara, you're left with a wooden stick with the words "We will bite to the end!" stamped on it. If there are nails in Che's coffin, this, no doubt, is what they look like.

I know a lot of people get really mad about all the Che imagery.

This article takes the attitude that the runaway popularization actually defeats Che's politics. Revolution is processed into rebelliousness.

Are we supposed to feel good about the way our culture drains serious meaning out of things?'


Thank you Ann

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:36 AM

'Our longstanding policies toward Cuba have been a miserable failure, evidenced by the fact that Fidel Castro is now the longest-serving head of state in the world.
If our isolationist policies were meant to weaken him, they certainly haven't worked.

I believe that normalization of relations with Cuba would help the oppressed and poverty-stricken Cuban people while setting the stage for a more democratic government once Castro inevitably leaves the scene.'

Obama 2004

Now that would be a 'change'!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:53 AM

"This, in brief, is why capitalism won."

Perhaps "Don't speak too soon, for the wheel's still in spin..."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 09:44 AM

I would be willing to bet money that FOX planted that flag in there. Notice we don't ever see who is holding it up. That person never shows their face. Probably because someone would recognize them from the FOX newsroom.

FOX's ratings have been slipping a lot lately and they've got to find ways to pump them up. Juicy scaremongering like this has always been their ace in the hole, but I think people are starting to lose interest in that sort of thing. About time, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:02 AM

One of the videos that is showing that communist flag has some words going by as the flag is waved. To paraphrase some of them a bit (quoting from Stalin, I believe)...

Ideas are more powerful than guns. We don't allow our enemies to have guns. Why should we allow them to have ideas?


That right there is the FOX NEWS agenda from start to finish. Deprive the American people of ideas - replace any ideas they might have of their own with the ideas we impose on them, and we and the Republican party will be able to maintain our hold on power forever.

FOX is anti-democracy and anti-freedom. They are no better than Stalin was when it comes to suppressing freedom and democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:23 AM

I think there are some people at Fox who make for the reputation CC describes.

There are others who, although stilll of a conservative bias, try to make respectable news.

The Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity hydrophobic types are the worst of the lot; but they are not the whole picture.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:58 AM

Once again, capitalism has proven itself to be largely bankrupt and incapable of sharing meaningfully to anyone below the status of middle class.

Why have so many of you continued your rant in favor of this system that is so non-inclusive, and actually destructive to people the world over?

Conversely, I think some of you protest too much against anything "social." Socialism seems, to me, the democratic direction we ought to be heading into willingly and in double time---but without any totalitarian system or police state to enforce it.

I am willing to vote it in as a great hope for the future. It is the time, right now, to jettison the ponderous baggage of older bankrupt dogmas!

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:00 AM

And that is what spoils the whole crate of apples - how are people to discriminate between the O'Reilly and Hannity "news" and the respectable news? My Father-in-Law, and Uncle cannot. That makes them very difficult to be around.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:42 AM

The ability to discriminate is an individual accomplishment, I woudl offer, individually gained, much like riding a bicycle. If you do not pursue it with zeal and assiduous practice, you end up not doing it well.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 12:00 PM

Unfortunately, FOX panders to those who either care not to discriminate, or are totaly unaware that some discrimination might be necessary.

The biased and the ignorant, in short (sorry Pop and Unc).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 01:57 PM

Anyway, the election is over, these kind of incidents are totally irrelevant. What signifies is what happens over the next few years, with the new regime in office.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:42 PM

It is laughable to assert that Obama is a socialist, and only someone who is grossly ignorant of what socialism is could possibly think so.

Here's an article from today's Toronto Star, giving a Canadian viewpoint on where Obama would stand in the Canadian political spectrum...somewhat to right of center. Canada IS a capitalist society.

Canadian view of Barack Obama

The article is written by Rosie DiManno, one of Canada's foremost columnists. I would describe her as a tough "conservative" liberal in Canadian terms. That is, she writes for a liberal newspaper, but she tends to write from a rather conservative "tough love" mindset. For example, she has enthusiastically backed the Iraq war from day 1, while our government chose not to get involved in it and not to support it, and our public in general looked askance at the whole thing. I agree with Rosie DiManno about half the time. She's smart, tough, stubborn, and opinionated. I would not know whether to describe her as "liberal" or "conservative", because she just doesn't fully fit either description.