BS: Obama is a socialist

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 07:54 PM

From what I've seen of Newsmax (and I've checked into its background),it makes Fox News Service look like "the liberal press."

If that's where Sawzaw gets his information, then. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 08:27 PM

From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 07:37 PM

But then some people are more interested in their opinions, or just mouthing off, rather than exchanging useful information

Yes indeed.


This is Joe's reply to a post I posted, McGrath. I suggest you take him up on his generous offer!!!

Well, I thought it was pretty funny, but I can see how others might find it offensive. I'm not going to contradict the decision of the volunteer editor who deleted the message - but I think it was one of those "borderline" things that could be decided either way. I had to read it twice before I decided what to think of it. I'll be glad to send it to anybody who sends me a personal message.
[e-mail]-

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 10:29 PM

Very droll McGrath, but perhaps too dry for many here.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 04:54 AM

Droll, yes it was meant as satire, will a bit of the dry, at ourselves...depending if we can laugh at ourselves in the inside! It was not written with ill will, in the least!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 07:37 AM

That was a stupid joke, young Justin.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 11:27 AM

Please point to the incorrect information from Newsmax.

The Enquirer is a bunch of Elvis is alive crap but they nailed Edwards.

Again CC chooses to believe a radical and political fixit man over the family of Percy Sutton.

If CC is correct, everybody assocaited with Obama is a liar. Ergo everything said about Obama is a lie.

And again, Do the Math. Where did the money come from?

Well well well, looks like the Obamaniacs are too busy with character attacks to deal with the actual facts presented.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 11:31 AM

Obama in Dreams of my Father:

Obama says he visited the American embassy in IndonesiaIn in 1970. While waiting, he chances upon "a collection of Life magazines neatly displayed in clear plastic binders."

In one magazine, he reads a story about a black man with an "uneven, ghostly hue," who has been rendered grotesque by a chemical treatment.

"There were thousands of people like him," Obama learned, "black men and women back in America who'd undergone the same treatment in response to advertisements that promised happiness as a white person."

Obama's attention to detail is a ruse. Life never ran such an article. When challenged, Obama claimed it was Ebony. Ebony ran no such article either.

Dreams is an apt title for the book.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 11:36 AM

MCCain has endorsed ACORNS good works in the past. The wholle ACORN flap is flimflammery for political gain by a desperate campaign.

As for Sawz' fountain of miasmic nabobbery, I think it is beyond salvage.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 11:41 AM

My God, that is a pretty shocking accusation.

A seven year old boy reads an article in a magazine, and when he grows up and writes a book and recalls this, he gets the name of the publication wrong...

How can someone like that be fit for public office?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 11:55 AM

Well, there's also the fact that both Barack and Michelle say that their education was paid for with student loans. So I guess I'm willing to believe them before I am willing to believe Percy Sutton on this one.

I see an enormous double standard being used by the person who is trying to make Obama out to be a terrorist sympathizer (or worse). This person isn't making the other people with ties to Bill Ayers, including quite a few Republicans, out to be terrorist sympathizers. This person has completely ignored all of the other people who in their daily lives have ties just as close and some even closer to Bill Ayers, including some who support John McCain and have contributed to his campaign, and is focusing exclusively on the extremely small association that Obama has had with Ayers. Perhaps this person can explain why ONLY Obama is a terrorist sympathizer because of having this association while all of the others with the same association and in some cases, even closer association, are not also terrorist sympathizers.

My own opinion is that this person (and many others apparently) is so deeply entrenched in their vicious brand of racism that the idea of having a Black president causes them to feel terrorized, and that's why they are putting this label of terrorist on Obama.

This is unfortunate. But it's time for these people to grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 12:19 PM

"he gets the name of the publication wrong..." Twice

How can someone like that be fit for public office? NOT. This man's faulty memory of his background shapes his policies.

He (or someone) writes a book containing non-actual information and sells it for a profit. Maybe he can take the Amos defense of colorful writing.

I have said the we should never mention race. All it does is stir up hostility. It pokes a stick in someone's eye every time you mention if someone is black or white.

On one should vote or not vote for someone based on gender or race or accuse someone else of racism because of whom they vote for.

That in itself is racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Alice
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 12:23 PM

faulty memory?

Sheesh Saw, you have reached another benchmark in ridiculous postings.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 12:30 PM

Sen. Obama has refused to instruct Harvard Law School to release any information about his time there as a student, or about his student loans.

"the fact that both Barack and Michelle say that their education was paid for with student loans. So I guess I'm willing to believe them before I am willing to believe Percy Sutton on this one."

A report in The Chicago Sun claimed that Obama borrowed $42,753 to pay for Harvard Law School, and "tens of thousands" more to pay for undergraduate studies at Columbia.The same report said that Michelle Obama borrowed $40,762 to pay for her years at Harvard Law School.But a Newsmax review of Senator Obama's financial disclosures found no trace of any outstanding college loans, going back to 2000.As a United States Senate candidate, Barack Obama was required to file a financial disclosure form in 2004 detailing his assets, income, consulting contracts, and liabilities.
   Obama listed "zero" under liabilities in 2004 and in all subsequent U.S. Senate financial disclosure forms.Under the Senate ethics rules, he is required to disclose any loan, including credit card debt, of $10,000 or more. The only exception to the reporting requirement is mortgage debt on a principal residence.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 12:31 PM

Le2ts get real here... I could say that John McCain had ties to North Vietnamese during the Vietnam War and technically I would be 100% true is making that claim...

This argument about Ayers is beyond silly... And the only reason that anyone is talking about here on this thread is because thwe socialism charge just ain't working... But as the rest of McCain's Acme Campaign Company ideas he, like Wylie Coyote will keep trying to get it to stick...

Problem is that the McCain folks ain't got much stick'um left in their tank and seems that they are down to a plumber who ain't a real plumber to try to salvage their campaign...

Fact is stranger than fiction...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 12:35 PM

I accuse people of racism, not because of whom they vote for, but because of their double standards. Double standards, when they are applied to people of another race, are racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 12:58 PM

Carol, to be completely fair (which is hard at times), one could also say that double standards, when applied to people with different socio-political philosophies aren't racist, but rather stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 01:05 PM

But in one corner I found a collection of Life magazines neatly displayed in clear plastic binders. I thumbed through the glossy advertisements -- Goodyear Tires and Dodge Fever, Zenith TV ("Why not the best?") and Campbell's Soup ("Mm-mmm good!"), men in white turtlenecks pouring Seagram's over ice as women in red miniskirts looked on admiringly -- and felt vaguely reassured. When I came upon a news photograph, I tried to guess the subject of the story before reading the caption.

Eventually I came across a photograph of an older man in dark glasses and a raincoat walking down an empty road. I couldn't guess what this picture was about; there seemed nothing unusual about the subject. On the next page was another photograph, this one a close-up of the same man's hands. They had a strange, unnatural pallor, as if blood had been drawn from the flesh. Turning back to the first picture, I now saw that the man's crinkly hair, his heavy lips and broad, fleshy nose, all had this same uneven, ghostly hue.

He must be terribly sick, I thought. A radiation victim, maybe, or an albino -- I had seen one of those on the street a few days before, and my mother had explained about such things. Except when I read the words that went with the picture, that wasn't it at all. The man had received a chemical treatment, the article explained, to lighten his complexion. He had paid for it with his own money. He expressed some regret about trying to pass himself off as a white man, was sorry about how badly things had turned out. But the results were irreversible. There were thousands of people like him, black men and women back in America who'd undergone the same treatment in response to advertisements that promised happiness as a white person.

Sounds pretty vivid and factual to me. Remember the Water Mellon Man movie?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 01:19 PM

Typo:
"On one should vote or not vote for someone based on gender or race or accuse someone else of racism because of whom they vote for."

Correction:
One should not vote for or against someone based on gender or race or accuse someone else of being a racist or a sexist because of whom they vote for.

To accuse someone else of being a racist or a sexist because of whom they vote for is in itself racist or sexist.

Personally I would like to see this race issue ended forever. But I am not going to vote for someone I believe to be a socialist regardless of race or sex.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 01:35 PM

So I guess the person smearing Obama in this thread and others (the one posting the stuff about Percy Sutton) will be writing in Ron Paul's name on election day, because all of the candidates who are running are socialists to one extent or another, and even Ron Paul has flirted with a little socialism from time to time.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 01:36 PM

THere actually was an article in the popular press at that time about an African America who bleached his skin and "passed" as white, and his observations and experiences. I remember the furor it caused, although I have no recollection of where it was published.

So, Sawz, now you have jumped over to deciding the reason is that "he's a socialist"?? Care to define what you mean by that and in what way he's more of a socialist than, say, FDR or JFK?



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 01:54 PM

"Care to define what you mean by that and in what way he's more of a socialist than, say, FDR or JFK?"

I have posted reasons to believe he is a socialist above. I was not around to vote for FDR and I did not vote for JFK.

Now please explain how, when and where America's oil supply was cut off.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 03:48 PM

I think "socialist" in this context just means "I don't like him", the same way that "Liberal" does.

I know in other contexts it means people who believe it's necessary to take banks into public ownership, but that definition wouldn't apply these days...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 05:08 PM

The whole socialism button is a bit of a paper tiger.

"All Democratic presidential campaigns, whether desperate or confident, in good times or bad, turn populist at the end. Barack Obama's is a little different. "Quiet populism," a phrase I first saw used by Ben Smith of Politico, seems at first to be the best concise description of the Democratic nominee's recent language on the economy, with its strong commitment to rebuilding opportunity but a cool, calm, optimistic tone of national purpose.

And yet, how "quiet" can "populism" ever be? Isn't populism as we know it characterized by the forceful oppositions of, say, Al Gore's "people vs. the powerful" in the closing weeks of the 2000 campaign, or by John Edwards' "Two Americas"? Alternatively, there's a right-wing populism that sets up a dichotomy between ordinary Americans and educated "elites," currently embodied by Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber. In his great 1995 book, The Populist Persuasion, Michael Kazin offers "the most basic and telling definition of populism: a language whose speakers conceive of ordinary people as a noble assemblage not bounded narrowly by class, view their elite opponents as self-serving and undemocratic, and seek to mobilize the former against the latter."

This is a better description of the McCain-Palin campaign, which recently supplemented its right-populist attack on cosmopolitan elites, as featured at the GOP convention, with a sudden promise to "put an end to reckless greed" and an argument that, "We have seen self-interest, greed, irresponsibility, and corruption undermine the hard work of the American people." ..."

---

What Obama is is a compassionate populist, not a socialist.

The difference will not be detected by those wearing blinders, but it is an important, fundamental distinction--the difference between banditry and compassion.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 06:38 PM

When you combine attacks on "the intellectual elite" with the rhetoric of "self-interest, greed, irresponsibility, and corruption undermine the hard work of the American people" you are getting perilously close to the mindset that propelled far-right movements to power in Europe before World War II, or which was exploited more recently by people like Le Pen or the late Joerg Haider.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Justin U
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 07:23 PM

Sarah Palin has accused and criticised Barack Obama of associating with terrorists.

Barack Obama was quick to make a counter remark, criticising Sarah Palin for associating with Americans.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 07:26 PM

God, Justin, it must be dark in there.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 07:30 PM

And smelly.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 07:34 PM

but lot of mushrooms!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 07:35 PM

Mind, when it comes to "associating with terrorists" he'd have had a point if he had said that. Some terrorists work on a bigger scale than others. "Shock and Awe" is a terrorist doctrine.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 07:54 PM

Dang, Magrath, why are you so wise?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 11:43 PM

The Chicago Annenberg Challenge Board recieved $98.4 million doled out by chairman Obama with grants.

The Challenge Board contracted 45 "external" partners to work directly with the schools. These external partners included various universities, parks, and community organizations. In most cases, grant money did not go directly to the schools.

The first external partner to receive funds, approximately 175,000 dollars, was the “Small Schools Workshop;â€쳌 an organization founded by William Ayers and directed by Mike Klonsky. Klonsky was the leader of the “New Communist Movement,â€쳌 a Marxist-Leninist organization of the 70s and 80s with ties to the Black Panther Party. Klonsky was also a leader of the “SDSâ€쳌. Essentially, the first payout issued from the Challenge Board, authorized by Barack Obama, was awarded to a radical group who made no secret they were Communists with a lower-case “câ€쳌. This group, led by former leaders of the Weathermen Underground Organization, became responsible for reforming the education of Chicago’s school children.

Among other external partners to receive funding was an organization called ACORN, which had received 190,000 dollars. ACORN, founded by a former member of the “SDSâ€쳌, Wade Rathke, is a leftist community organization with close ties to the Democratic Socialists of America. In the 1990s, ACORN heavily involved itself in the housing market by using the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 as a tool to extort banks and pressure them into making risky loans. In the 90s, ACORN’s militant tactics caught national attention on several occasions when they broke into private offices, harassed bankers at their homes, and used the CRA to delay bank mergers.

Final Evaluation:

The results of an August 2003 final technical report of the Chicago Annenberg Research Project by the Consortium on Chicago School Research "suggest that among the schools it supported, the Challenge had little impact on school improvement and student outcomes, with no statistically significant differences between Annenberg and non-Annenberg schools in rates of achievement gain, classroom behavior, student self-efficacy, and social competence.

Mr Ayers, Caracas Venezuela 2006 commenting on education:

"[comrade] Luis as a major asset in both the Venezuelan and the international struggle. I look forward to seeing how he and all of you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane. Thank you, [comrade] Luis, for everything you’ve done."

Who was it that failed? Capitalist education or Bill Ayers attempt at education?

Thank you, Comrade Ayers, for everything you have done.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 03:16 AM

Honest question: Does Obama's 'spread the wealth' policy, does it extend to illegal aliens? and/or Has he stated a policy in regards to that? (including the borders, and the status of those illegal alens' that are here now?)   Next: If this administration goes with another 'economic stimulus package' and hands out money, 250 -300 billion dollars worth, as reported, isn't this a form of the 'spread the wealth' policy,? and/or How is Obama;s claim to no 'more of the same' fit in, as being opposed to doing basically the same type thing? Another question: How does Obama stand on the North American Union, and going from the dollar to the Amero?...or is he planning to continue to pursue the same policy?

Nobody has brought this up, as far as I know. Any word on these things?
or, is it really 'more of the same' under a different name??

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 04:14 AM

On the subject of the economic stimulus package they're considering now, Obama has been saying it should go toward investing in our infrastructure and not be a handout as such. And they seem to be gravitating toward that option. Several good things would come out of that... 1. new jobs would be created. 2. people would have more money to spend. 3. communities would have an influx of money from the projects and from the increase in disposable income that the people with the new jobs would have. 4. our infrastructure would be strengthened (something that is badly needed).

Here's Obama's page with his positions on immigration.

So far, I haven't heard him say anything about the North American Union. But what I have heard him say on the subject of things like that (NAFTA, for instance) is that we need to make sure that any free trade agreements we have are based on human rights considerations and environmental conditions. He is not in favor of any free trade agreements that don't require fairness and consideration for the environment. For instance, he voted against a free trade agreement with Columbia because of the problem in that country of union members and organizers being targeted for assasination, and because of the way workers are being treated in that country.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 04:36 AM

It's the Bush administration and their cronies who are milking the war in Iraq.

But the war may be brought to an end without any US politicians doing anything at all. The US is about to lose its UN mandate for being there, and the Iraqi government doesn't appear to be prepared to sign any new agreements to allow US forces to remain in that country.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Justin U
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 04:43 AM

And when did America ever listen to the UN CarolC ?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 04:52 AM

Thank you, CarolC, for a straight answer. Covered some of them....any more?? Also, has he said anything about the broadened executive powers granted the presidency under the Bush administration, in regards to eliminating them? I think it a travesty, that it has been sidestepped by the 'press'!
Sure would be interested in hearing his stance on the North American Union, the Amero, and ..well, I think your link somewhat addressed the borders. As it is now, they are being dissolved.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 05:47 AM

The US just uses the UN for cover. Or at least it tries to. In the case of invading Iraq, there was no UN mandate for doing so. But after it invaded, it got the mandate because the US had already broken it and needed to fix it. When the UN mandate for the US to be in Iraq expires, the US will no longer have any cover for its presence there. This will make it a lot more difficult for the US government to pretend it's there for any reason having to do with what's good for the Iraqis. That could make it harder for the government to get enough support from voters and congress to be able to retain a military presence in Iraq. We'll see.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 09:54 AM

The North American Union and the Amero, at least according to Snopes and AskQuestions.org, both seem to be things for various pundits to push on a slow day. In fact, a leading scare writer on these topics is Jerome Corsi, who is currently noted for a couple of somewhat poorly researched books on Obama. While it is nearly impossible to prove a negative, and there is the usual amount of BS in the blog-o-sphere, Obama's own Fact Sheet on Latin America gives no indication that he has any interest in a NAU, in any form.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 10:24 AM

Senator Obama served as a paid director to a Chicago-area non-profit organization, the Woods Fund, from 1999 until almost 2003. Bill Ayers served with Senator Obama on the organization's board of directors.

In 2001 the Woods Fund gave a $40,000 financial aid grant to the Arab American Action Network which was co-founded by Rashid Khalidi. AAAN's president is Mr. Khalidi's wife, Mona. In 2002, the Woods Fund gave the Arab American Action Network a second gift of $35,000. Mr. Khalidi and his wife are successful fundraisers for Senator Obama.

The Arab American Action Network opposes the existence of Israel as a state, calling its founding a "catastrophe." Mr. Khalidi, the Arab American Action Network's co-founder, was also a director of the official PLO press agency WAFA in Beirut from 1976 to 1982. Khalidi's wife, AAAN President Mona Khalidi, was WAFA's English translator during that period.

While Obama and Ayers were on the board of the Woods Fund, it also made a $1,000,000 contribution to Chicago Annenberg Challenge Senator Obama chaired the CAC from 1995 through 1999.

As a state senator Obama directed $225,000 of Illinois taxpayers' money, and later as a U.S. Senator earmarked another $100,000 in federal tax money, for programs run by radical political activist and Catholic priest (now removed from his church), Father Michael Pfleger.
Pfleger is an associate of Senator Obama, Reverend Wright and of Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan whom Wright described "as one of the...giants of the African-American religious experience"

Over the past 15 years Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Illinois, and Reverend Jeremiah Wright has received $15,000,000 in grant money from the federal government.

Wright and Farrakhan once traveled together to visit Libyan dictator, Muammar al-Qaddafi -- who was responsible for bombing an airliner over Lockerbie, Scotland, killing everyone aboard.

In December, 2007 Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ awarded Farrakhan for his lifetime "achievements. Farrakhan describes Obama as the "Messiah" Gadaffi calls Obama a Muslim brother. In 1996 Gaddafi pledged $1 billion to the Nation of Islam after meeting with Mr. Farrakhan.

NYT January 27, 1996:
Louis Farrakhan, head of the Nation of Islam, visited Libya this week to meet Col. Muammar el - Qaddafi and discussed how to "unify, mobilize and organize" American Muslims for elections in the United States this year. Colonel Qaddafi, the Libyan leader, quoted by the state press agency, said: "Our confrontation with America used to be like confronting a fortress from outside. Today we have found an opening to enter the fortress and to confront it from within.

And finally, amongst other real estate holdings, The Tinley Park Southtown Star reports that Barack Obama's former pastor will have a four-bedroom home in Tinley Park, Illinois, a southern Chicago suburb. Wright's home, which is being paid for by his church, the Trinity United Church of Christ, will include an elevator, butler's pantry, exercise room, a master bedroom with a whirlpool and a spare room for a future theater or swimming pool. The mansion is estimated to cost $1 million.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:56 AM

I have yet to figure out why anyone would bother explaining any of the above to you Sawsass. You're trapped in your little bigoted world where fear rules and now that the situation is swinging in a new direction you have made up your mind to believe only what you want even when the evidence doesn't support you.

So why bother explaining?

If only Obama was as socialistic as Bernie! But be assured Obama WILL be President. Tough shit Doodles!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Alice
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 12:28 PM

How do you spell Mavrik?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 01:28 PM

Or "socialest". But they spelled Obama right.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 07:03 PM

I just listened to a very nice speech from Sarah Palin, condemning Obamas's economic ideas as "socialism," which certainly not something we want to try in today's hard times.

In response, my rather bright stepson said, "Socialism is what got us out of the last Depression."

Anybody remember how highly Ronald Reagan praised FDR?

Maybe it IS time for some wealth redistribution. Maybe it's time for McCain and Palin to stop pushing the sad, sad stories of the potential Obama-caused suffering of those poor people who earn over $250,000 a year. I earned $250,000 in one year, 1999 - and I paid a lot of taxes. I can't say I suffered then, but now I'm getting worried. Sarah doesn't have much sympathy for me now that I'm in a much lower tax bracket.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 07:49 PM

The FUD-button use of socialism is another paper tiger being waved around by the fear and hate crowd.

What the problem is   is that our social network is falling apart largely due to the untrammeled avarice of unethical business practices used to forward simple greed.

Repairing our network is not socialism. When FDR did it it was MORE socialistic than some earlier periods (such as the Golden Age of robber barons and Tammany Hall). Hell, for that matter, the Constitution was mORE socialism than the monarchic dictatorships that preceded it.

The problem is that Manichean lizardbrains think things are either A or B, without noticing that they can be a little more A or a little more B. For example, Mister Bush is distinctly MORE fascistic than, say, Jimmy Carter or Wm Clinton were in his management style. Not to say he was an absolute fascist--just that he slid things in that direction.

There is a continuous gradient of degrees from stark extreme capitalism to stark extreme socialism, and the US has typical bounced around the middle of that spectrum.

Maybe someone should point out that the Interstate Freeway system so beloved by truckers and trippers everywhere was a socialist exercise? So was the TVA and the Manhattan Project.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 07:57 PM

Bill Ayers:

"Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents"

"Memory is a motherfucker"

Ayers was a leader of the Days of Rage, a vandalism spree in Chicago in which bystanders were assaulted. To acquire false IDs needed to survive underground, Ayers confesses, "we stole wallets and purses without much concern for our victims."

"It was a risky business that could reel out of control without warning. We were trying to learn artfulness and stealth, and stealing purses was definitely from the old school. More important, these papers were unreliable, and had a short shelf life. As soon as they were reported missing, everything stopped working, and it could prove disastrous to buy a car, for example, or rent an apartment"

"We hoped to use our celebrity in the lunatic left as well as the gathering Weathermyth in the larger world to persuade others to pull back. We knew where to find a few organized groups--the Red Family and the Proud Eagle Tribe, for example, the Motherfuckers and the White Panthers--and we held several secret summits where we had the traditional frank exchange of views and hammered out some kind of new formal understanding. Only once, in a dingy basement hideout near Houston, were guns drawn, but it was based on a misunderstanding--the crazies thought Jeff Jones had said, "We can turn you shits in in D.C." when he had actually said, "We can turn you into fish in the sea"--and we laughed about it later as we passed a joint."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 08:05 PM

Sawz,

You have become a raving idiot... The kind a guy that goes screaming theu the streets, yelling at imaginary demons, making a complete ass out of one's self...

I hope its working for you but...

...purdy embaressing for most of us to watch...

Take a few deep breaths... Go see a movie... Crack open a bottle of good aged wine but, for gosh sakes, get a hold of yourself... You are embarassing even the most Bushites of the Bushites here...

God, man, give it a friggin' rest, will ya'???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Justin U
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 08:07 PM

Well Bobert don't forget to tell Obama about our "original" Debates thread. (After he sees his granny).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 10:04 PM

So if Ayers was such a bad guy, why are the people condemning Obama for having some associations with him in the past not also condemning all of the Republicans who have also had associations with Ayers? And more specifically, why are they not also condemning McCain for accepting money from people who had associations with Ayers?

I'd say the reason is simple. They don't give a shit about anyone's associations with Ayers. They just want to undermine our democracy by misleading voters into voting against their own economic interests. I'd say that's way more un-American than anything Bill Ayers ever did.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 10:18 PM

Seems to me that I've seen polls that say that 65% of the voting population could care less about Professor Ayers.   Count me in.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 10:34 PM

Sawsaz-

I'm not particularly impressed with the notes you've harvested from right-wing websites but it is depressing that some voters might take these allegations seriously. Why do you take such a keen interest in such creative research?

Charley Noble