BS: Obama is a socialist

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 10:46 PM

"So if Ayers was such a bad guy, why are the people condemning Obama for having some associations with him in the past not also condemning all of the Republicans who have also had associations with Ayers? And more specifically, why are they not also condemning McCain for accepting money from people who had associations with Ayers?"

Because McCain is not directly associated with Ayers. Obama is.

First you say "people condemning Obama for having some associations with him" and then you say "They don't give a shit about anyone's associations with Ayers"

So are they condemning him or they don't give a shit?

With the exception of the Kill your parents quote, they came from his books. I don't think any right winger wrote his books.

How could Obama associate himself with this maniac?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:01 PM

Perhaps because he, like most people, realizes that life is an ongoing series. What Ayers did and said 40 years ago - when Barack Obama was 7 or 8 years old - was in a very different time. A volatile, angry time when many people felt that drastic responses and solutions were needed.

What were YOU like 40 years ago? (I grant that SOME people become nastier as they age, instead of t'other way 'round.) *g*

Subject: Guilt by association
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:09 PM

Sawzaw, the problem with the "Ayers card" is that there's no evidence at all that Obama participated in or supported or agreed with any illegal activities Ayers may have been involved in. "Guilt by association" is a desperate tactic of a losing campaign. I really thought the McCain campaign would conduct itself honorably and confront the issues, but they started acting like losers before the Republican Convention even began. Now it seems that every move they make is an act of desperation.

I think McCain is a good person and has something to say to America - and I think the same of Sarah Palin. But they're ignoring the issues and insisting on making nonissues into the central focus of their campaign, and that's a shame.

There's no evidence at all that Obama has ever supported any sort of terrorism, but McCain and Palin keep insisting that Obama "hangs out with terrorists." They're trying the same thing with their Acorn attacks, although there's no evidence of any substantial problem with Acorn other than a lawsuit about something that took place over 8 years ago - and there's certainly no evidence that Obama was involved in any wrongdoing with either Ayers or Acorn.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:47 PM

McCain took money from the Annenburgs, who are directly associated with Ayers (more closely than Obama, even). So it's ok to take money from people who are directly associated with Ayers?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:49 PM

What were YOU like 40 years ago? I expect that Sawzaw was rather less than a twinkle in his future grandparents' eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 11:56 PM

And I would turn that question around... how could the Annenburgs associate with Ayers? How could any Republicans at the university where he works associate with Ayers? Why is it only condemnable for the Democratic candidate for president to have that kind of association with Ayers but not all of the Republicans who have the same and some even closer association? This is a double standard, based on a cynical intent to manipulate voters into voting against their own best interests.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 12:39 AM

Mr Ayers book was published in 2001, not 40 years ago.

I am sorry of reality is too much for Bobert to handle.

No Regrets
From our August 2001 issue: "Kill your parents!" urged sixties leftist Bill Ayers, whose father was the chairman of Commonwealth Edison here.

Form the book Hippie:

Bernadine Dorn, Mrs Ayers on the Manson Murders:

The "War Council" held by the Weather Underground in Flint, Michigan, in December 1969, at which he and Dohrn were key players. It was at the Flint War Council that Dohrn admonished the four hundred delegates to stop being "wimpy" and "scared of fighting," and to "get into armed struggle." Invoking the example of Charles Manson, who had killed Sharon Tate and all her houseguests in the Los Angeles hills, Dohrn declared, "Dig it. First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, they even shoved a fork into a victim’s stomach! Wild!" She closed her speech by holding up three fingers in what she called the "Manson fork salute." Dohrn was followed by one of Ayers’s friends, John Jacobs, who told the crowd, "We're against everything that's 'good and decent' in honky America. We will loot and burn and destroy." The delegates then discussed how to get weapons, make bombs, and rent "safe houses"â€"after which they broke into a nearby Catholic Church to engage in group sex.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 01:22 AM

First of all, shooting down, and smearing someone and calling him names, with an opposing side, is no way to gather information, whether or not you agree with him. I find some, and not sure, of how much, Sawzaw comments and links rather validating to some of which he is saying..whether I agree, or not. He certainly raises a validated question, that deserves better than, he is getting.

That being said, CarolC raises a GREAT question, that may not have been asked, had Sawzaw posted his post..and that is,".....how could the Annenburgs associate with Ayers? How could any Republicans at the university where he works associate with Ayers? Why is it only condemnable for the Democratic candidate for president to have that kind of association with Ayers but not all of the Republicans" .......Just Who ARE THESE PEOPLE, AND WHAT IS THEIR OVERALL AGENDA???? Seems like they got their fingers in everybody's pie!...Why???..other than what the 'press' reports, with their chosen 'tone of voice' when reporting anything on them. Maybe they are one of the 'string pullers'...favoring an agenda of 'who knows what?'

Two movies that certainly seem thought provoking, in this area, are 'Network' and 'The Candidate'...should rent wand watch both of them.
Certainly, worth considering, at this time, in our nation's history!

Regards,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 10:35 AM

Let me repeat, I am not a fan of McCain and Palin but I am not going to vote for a socialist. What I am posting here is what I believe to be the truth published in newspapers and books.

If someone can prove any of it false, I will apologize and retract it.

I would not depend on movies as a reliable source. They are made to make money. There was a movie made called the path to 9/11. Has anybody seen that?

"McCain took money from the Annenburgs, who are directly associated with Ayers"

Did the money McCain took come from Ayers?

Did Ayers somehow shape the policies of the Annenbergs so as to influence McCain to hold the same policies as Ayres?

Again Obama was directly associated with Ayers, McCain was not.

By your logic Obama and McCain are equal in whatever point you are trying to make.

Exactly when, how much and for what purpose did McCain "take" Money from the Annenbergs?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Alice
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 10:40 AM

Obama has said repeatedly that he did not agree with the Weathermen. Ayers did not shape Obama's policies. You are just being stubborn in refusing to believe the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 11:05 AM

"...I am not going to vote for a socialist."

There are no 'socialists' running. There is only a label being tossed about in a desperate attempt to smear Obama by imaginative stretches of a few of his words.

"share the wealth" can mean many things. Obama explained clearly what HE meant by it, and it was NOT socialism.

(folks are already taking the next step and insinuating Obama is on the verge of Communism....sheesh!)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Alice
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 11:18 AM

McCain once said on the Chris Matthews show that the wealthiest should pay more taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 11:27 AM

Kinda depends on your definitions, there, Sawz. Did you vote for Bush? I am guessing the answer is yes. Probably twice. He sponsored the biggest expenditure of government money --tax money-- in history to prop up the failing economy. Pretty socialist, I would say.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 12:20 PM

The special thing about the Mudcat is that it provides a place where you can have arguments with people, but knowing that behind the disagreements there is a shared love of the music.

That can help keep disagreements on a relatively level keel. Not always. but compared to other forums, which are liable to be either vicious, or moderated into somnolence. That shared love of the music makes all the difference.

I note that Sawzaw seems never to have made made a single post to the musical side of the forum, under that name anyway. I'm not in the least surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 12:23 PM

Yup...ever since Google found us several years ago, folks have been popping in here after finding the BS section thru some search, and noting it was 'relatively' free posting, and lots of topics.

That guy who invented the WWW sure has a lot to answer for... *wry grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 04:35 PM

Yes, there is quite a number of people with pretty extreme viewpoints that tend to pop in prior to elections. Some post as guests, some actually join. Vociferous in their political comments (often very extreme), but you never see their handles in threads above the line, and they usually disappear after election day.

Are they here because they are interested in folk music? Not so one would notice.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:18 PM

That pesky 'Texas Guest' finally joined! I think it took him a couple of years to decide we were safe, if crazy. I think he feels at home.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:20 PM

here here an official welcomt to Tex.

Is ther anything wrong for Obama to be a Socialite?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:20 PM

If Obama is so wise, how could he ever have associated himself with Bill Ayers? Or Rev Wright or Rezko? If he is not a socailist, why was he a member of New Party?

After allegations surfaced in early summer over the 'New Party's' endorsement of Obama, the Obama campaign along with the remnants of the New Party and Democratic Socialists of America claimed that Obama was never a member of either organization. The DSA and 'New Party' then systematically attempted to cover up any ties between Obama and the Socialist Organizations. However, it now appears that Barack Obama was indeed a certified and acknowledged member of the DSA's New Party.


Scrubbed page From the New Party Website October 1996:

Running to Win : The Key Races
New Party members are busy knocking on doors, hammering down lawn signs, and phoning voters to support NP candidates this fall. Here are some of our key races:

Arkansas: The Little Rock New Party has a full slate of candidates up for election in November. LRNP steering committee member Michael Booker is running unopposed for re-election to the Arkansas State House. Two NP members - Paul Kelly and Genevieve Stewart - are running for at-large (city-wide) city council positions. And in a head-to-head battle between the New Party and the conservative right, NP member Jayne Cia faces the Arkansas state chair of Empower America (Jack Kemp and Bill Bennett's organization) for a Justice of the Peace (county board) position.

Illinois: Three NP-members won Democratic primaries last Spring and face off against Republican opponents on election day: Danny Davis (U.S. House), Barack Obama (State Senate) and Patricia Martin (Cook County Judiciary).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:25 PM

The Democratic Socialists of America Present
       The First Chicago Town Meeting on Economic Insecurity

               EMPLOYMENT AND SURVIVAL IN URBAN AMERICA
         a discussion of policy, problems, and possibilities

                                 with

                        WILLIAM JULIUS WILSON,
Director, Center for the Study of Urban Inequality at the University
                              of Chicago

                           MICHAEL DAWSON,
       Professor of Political Science, University of Chicago

                            BARACK OBAMA,
          Candidate, State Senate, 13th Legislative District

                         TONI PRECKWINKLE,
                         4th Ward Alderman

                           JOSEPH SCHWARTZ,
          Professor of Political Science, Temple University

                        SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 25TH
                               7:00pm
                   Ida Noyes Hall, Cloyster Club
                     1313 E. 59th Street, Chicago

Sponsored by:
*University of Chicago Democrats
*Chicago Democratic Socialists of America
*University of Chicago Democratic Socialists of America

For more information call:

University of Chicago Democratic Socialists, 312-955-6371

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:37 PM

Chicago Democratic Socialists of America Endorsements in the March 19th Primary Election

Barack Obama

Barack Obama is running to gain the Democratic ballot line for Illinois Senate 13th District. The 13th District is Alice Palmer's old district, encompassing parts of Hyde Park and South Shore.

Mr. Obama graduated from Columbia University and promptly went into community organizing for the Developing Communities Project in Roseland and Altgeld Gardens on the far south side of Chicago. He went on to Harvard University, where he was editor of the Harvard Law Review. He graduated with a law degree. In 1992, he was Director of Illinois Project Vote, a voter registration campaign that made Carol Moseley Braun's election to the U.S. Senate much easier than it would have been. At present, he practices law in Judson Miner's law firm and is President of the board of the Annenberg Challenge Grant which is distributing some $50 million in grants to public school reform efforts.

What best characterizes Barack Obama is a quote from an article in Illinois Issues, a retrospective look at his experience as a community organizer while he was completing his degree at Harvard:

    "... community organizations and organizers are hampered by their own dogmas about the style and substance of organizing. Most practice ... a 'consumer advocacy' approach, with a focus on wrestling services and resources from outside powers that be. Few are thinking of harnessing the internal productive capacities, both in terms of money and people, that already exist in communities." (Illinois issues, September, 1988)

Luckily, Mr. Obama does not have any opposition in the primary. His opponents have all dropped out or were ruled off the ballot. But if you would like to contribute to his campaign, make the check payable to Friends of Barack Obama, 2154 E. 71st, Chicago, IL 60649. If you would like to become involved in his campaign, call the headquarters at [phone].

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:38 PM

The NP's [New Party] political strategy is to support progressive candidates in elections only if they have a concrete chance to "win". This has resulted in a winning ratio of 77 of 110 elections. Candidates must be approved via a NP political committee. Once approved, candidates must sign a contract with the NP. The contract mandates that they must have a visible and active relationship with the NP.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:54 PM

"how could he ever have associated himself with Bill Ayers? Or Rev Wright or Rezko?"

Because finding out Ayers background was not an ISSUE when they were both on that board together. He didn't 'hang out' with Ayers....he did not even 'associate' with Ayers in the sense the slimers are trying to portray it.

Rev. Wright married the Obamas, and was just a nice preacher to them for many years. He didn't 'choose' Wright based on his extreme statements, and he disavowed those when he realized what had been said...(he was **NOT** in church the day that famous statement was made.)
Rezko: He met Rezko before there was a problem...then...

"U.S. Sen. Barack Obama expressed regret late Friday for his 2005 land purchase from now-indicted political fundraiser Antoin "Tony" Rezko in a deal that enlarged the senator's yard.

"I consider this a mistake on my part and I regret it," Obama told the Chicago Sun-Times in an exclusive and revealing question-and-answer exchange about the transaction.

In June 2005, Obama and Rezko purchased adjoining parcels in Kenwood. The state's junior senator paid $1.65 million for a Georgian revival mansion, while Rezko paid $625,000 for the adjacent, undeveloped lot. Both closed on their properties on the same day.

.....

""With respect to the purchase of my home, I am confident that everything was handled ethically and above board. But I regret that while I tried to pay close attention to the specific requirements of ethical conduct, I misgauged the appearance presented by my purchase of the additional land from Mr. Rezko," Obama said.

"It was simply not good enough that I paid above the appraised value for the strip of land that he sold me. It was a mistake to have been engaged with him at all in this or any other personal business dealing that would allow him, or anyone else, to believe that he had done me a favor," the senator said. "

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 06:28 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 06:47 PM

I didn't say he hung out with Ayers. I said he associated with him and he should have had better judgment. He should have had higher standards. More smarts. Evidently political ambition is more important to him than personal standards.

If someone hosts a party for you to introduce politically, that is an association.

It you sit on a board with someone for years, that is an association.

Bill Ayers quote: "guilty as hell, free as a bird"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 07:01 PM

"It you sit on a board with someone for years..."

An **irrelevant** association to the issue at hand. ...except for those who want careless listeners to FORM a different idea of its relevance. If the story were that Obama had refused to serve on a nice, friendly community board because some guy he didn't like was on it, they'd be playing THAT up as a fault.

Face it...if Obama mentioned which toothpaste he used, someone would be looking for problems with the manufacturer!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 07:09 PM

Why isn't Obama being denounced for sitting on a board with all those Republicans? I mean if you're looking for people who have really done serious damage to America...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 08:01 PM

By the end of next week I'm sure he'll be labeled a communist.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 08:04 PM

... and by the end of next week someone will say their brother-in-law's neighbour saw McCain at a back yard pig roast with some guy who was rumoured to be a member of the KKK.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 08:11 PM

"First of all, shooting down, and smearing someone *** and calling him names *** , with an opposing side, is no way to gather information, whether or not you agree with him."

Names like "Oblabbo" perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 10:33 PM

Sawzall, I'm sure you must have really impressive stuff about Obama somewhere but in the meantime, 'al Quaeda endorses McCain' trumps you. lol

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 12:42 AM

Tell ya' Sawsass, your reputation is deep in the shit simply because you have joined here. Your rep may already have been savaged beyond hope.

See, I was a member of the SDS and the SSOC at the same time as Ayers and am still a card carrying member of that diabloically radical lefty group, the ACLU. Even worse though, I actively protested the friggin' war and did Federal time at Petersburg for refusing induction. How can you afford to be associated with me? You will have to admit to one and all that you consort with radical elements who tried to destroy the lawful government of this country.

Man, you need to get your ass outta' here and claim you never heard of the Mudcat Cafe!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 03:27 AM

From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 08:11 PM
"First of all, shooting down, and smearing someone *** and calling him names *** , with an opposing side, is no way to gather information, whether or not you agree with him."
Names like "Oblabbo" perhaps?

You mean his name isn't 'Oblabbo'???..Oh my!!!

Once again, you're looking for that old lame axe to grind.

Yes, I meant every word of it.. both times.

Perhaps you can't distinguish between exchanging thoughts and ideas, and....never mind, I don't want to give you the definition, or concept of a thought.....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:50 AM

Whatever it takes:

Obama Tweaks Tax Plan to Rebut McCain

ABC News

Facing criticism from John McCain that his tax plan constitutes "welfare," Barack Obama recently added a work requirement to one of his proposals.

"They started saying this was welfare," said Obama adviser Austan Goolsbee. "So, just so they would absolutely not be able to say that, we decided that for the last two percent we'll simply add a work requirement."

Goolsbee discussed the change to Obama's universal mortgage credit while debating McCain adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin at the Council on Foreign Relations on Tuesday.

The purpose of Obama's 10 percent universal mortgage credit is to aid taxpayers who do not itemize when filing taxes. The Obama campaign estimates that it would provide an average of $500 to 10 million homeowners, the majority of whom earn less than $50,000 per year.

Goolsbee referred to the number of non-working Americans who would benefit from the original understanding of Obama's plan as an insignificant "sliver" when compared to the much larger number of working Americans who would benefit from Obama's plan.

Although the number of non-working beneficiaries would have been just a "sliver" under the original understanding of Obama's plan, Goolsbee said the Democratic nominee's economic team decided to add a work requirement to it in order to block McCain from being able to characterize any aspect of his plan as "welfare."

"When did this change? I'm just curious," an incredulous Holtz-Eakin asked Goolsbee.

"About two weeks ago," replied Goolsbee, adding that when the proposal was announced in September 2007, 98 percent of its benefits went to workers.

The work requirement on Obama's universal mortgage credit was never announced publicly, prompting Holtz-Eakin to suggest that it was just made up for purposes of the CFR debate.

"I think they just made it up," Holtz-Eakin told ABC News. "They will say anything in the moment. This is like trying to pin Jello to the wall."

During a Tuesday conference call with reporters, Holtz-Eakin mocked Goolsbee's claim that Obama could have changed his plan two weeks ago in response to McCain attacks that did not start until after Obama met with Joe "The Plumber" Wurzelbacher nine days ago.

"What we saw today was just another example of the Obama campaign being willing to say potentially anything in order to avoid the tough questions of the moment," said Holtz-Eakin............

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:03 AM

WHat a crock.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:55 AM

"spreading the wealth around"

both parties could take a large proportion of the ridiculous amount of money they are spending on advertizing and 'spread that wealth around", instead of it going into directly into the pockets of those big marketing corporations.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:00 PM

I think I made the point above, but it seems our resident bigot did not get it.

Socialism is an essentially decent creed in which we collectively care and support for the less able.

Capitalism is an evil one, in which we exploit them.

It is as simple as that.

Socialism is good.
Welfare is good.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:05 PM

Welfare n. Satisfactory state, health and prosperity, well-being, maintenance of members of community in such condition, esp, by statutory procedure or social effort... (Concise Oxford Dictionary)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:32 PM

Deja vue:

Early today I responded in another thread to the ridiculous McCain objection to Obama's universal mortgage credit proposal on the basis that it would constitute "welfare" for some imagined human parasites.

Guess I'll have to repeat myself, but more briefly this time:

PEOPLE WITH MORTGAGES ARE WORKING PEOPLE. Even in cases of the laxest and most predatory sub-prime lenders, the home buyer HAS to have had some source of income at the time of closing.

I'm surprised and a little disappointed that the Obama camp felt a need to respond to such an absolute absurdity by "adding a work requirement." Of course, it's a meaningless concession ~ it's not like the situation would EVER arise that such a requirement would have to be invoked.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 05:50 PM

Funny how the target knew exactly who the target was.
Now that was a scalpel (not an axe).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:05 PM

Tia, you're small and grasping at straws.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:31 PM

Y'know any tax system--including elimination of all taxes--is somehow redistributing wealth.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: TIA
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:32 PM

Actually, TIA is quite large, and seated on an oaken chair drinking from a pewter cup at the moment. But within reach, he (or is it she?) does have some of those bendy straws, and just one of those solid twirly ones with all the loops.

Ahhhh.......

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:44 PM

From: TIA
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:32 PM

Actually, TIA is quite large, and seated on an oaken chair drinking from a pewter cup at the moment. But within reach, he (or is it she?) does have some of those bendy straws, and just one of those solid twirly ones with all the loops.

Figures!

A legend in his own wine!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: TIA
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:55 PM

Wow, that's a big pewter cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:38 PM

Bragging?..or complaining??

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:19 PM

Amos this is a crock isn't it:

"They started saying this was welfare," said Obama adviser Austan Goolsbee. "So, just so they would absolutely not be able to say that, we decided that for the last two percent we'll simply add a work requirement."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 03:50 PM

As dick said, all taxation is about distributing wealth.

If people don't have money they can't spend money. If people can't spend money the whole money-based economy collapses.

Leave aside issues like caring about how people survive, because those things maybe aren't too important to the kinnd of people who complain about "welfare". But they should care about the economy going down the pan, from their own point of view.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:26 PM

Sawz:

Why?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:02 PM

Sawzaw, there is no politician today in the US government who is a pure socialist.
They all believe in some form of capitalism either by supporting small business and entrepreneurial activity.

Only the Sarah Palin's of today throw the word "socialist" around to denigrate Democrats.
She doesn't know what the word means. Do you?

The 9 Communists who support Obama say nothing about his political ideology which
includes private enterprise (not a socialist ideology).

McCain is being endorsed by Osama bin Laden. Does that make him a terrorist?

Frank