BS: Obama is a socialist

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 10:20 AM

McCain took money from people who support terrorists! Well that settles it. McCain is a terrorist!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 10:21 AM

Glad we got that cleared up and sorted in a nice logical manner....



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Alice
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 10:25 AM

Can't remember now which thread I posted the link on.
McCain's transition guy worked for Saddam Hussein to try to lesson sanctions on his regime.
Talk about working for terrorists?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 10:45 AM

I wouldn't make too much of Chavez & others hinting that they'd rather see Obama elected....it's not that they think his philosophy is in line with their's....they just have visions of a McCain led administration doing some sort of unilateral bombing or invasion of their turf.

I don't think they will LIKE Obama's attitude towards them, but they consider his to be lesser of two what-they-call-evils.

Oh...and this recent attempt to scare Jewish voters by hinting that Obama will not honor agreements to protect Israel....that is crap! and beneath contempt!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 12:18 PM

Nationalising the entire banking system under Bush makes Bush the biggest national socialist in American history.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:33 PM

Based on YOUR previous, and links,..which seem to be accurate....

Ayers with the Annenbergs, Obama with the Annenbergs, McCain with the Annenbergs, and Saddam Hussein, Ayers with Chavez, Chavez supporting Obama, Freddie and Fannie, giving money to Obama, and some(less to McCain) and Frank, and Dodd, Paulsen, with Goldman Sachs, now with the treasury, and nationalizing the banking system with Bush, Paulsen, when with Goldman Sachs, making it policy change to not back their loans with equity, Rezko, and on and on....and yet when I point out that ALL these fraudulent bozos are corrupt, and working with each other, taking away our rights...you jump my shit??? Go figure!! How much stuff has to come out, before your light bulbs go off?? The difference between Obama's socialism, and McCain's is Obama 'leans' toward Marxism, and McCain/Bush's toward fascism. Wow!, what a choice!!....
yeah, I know, a typical GfS post, I've heard that before too. WAKE THE F**K up!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: kendall
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM

You know what they say about opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:49 PM

Opinions???????????????????????????????
Dig a hole and place your head in it....you might use the one you already have, ..again!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 01:54 PM

Perhaps, you were referencing their opinions, not my facts...in which case....sorry...if not....follow the other instructions

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:03 PM

GtS;

You "WAKE THE F**K up!!!!!!".   I greatly admire your spirit and passion and even your tone of completely outraged indignation, sometimes, but your arm-waving accusations are defeating any intent you may have to communicate. There ARE ways to communicate effectively, I am sure you know, and ways to just shut down possible communication. McCain's types lean toward the latter.

There is nothing Marxist about Obama's positions, so give your arms (and any other body parts involved) a rest.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:04 PM

John McCain's economic team has two people on it who have lobbied for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac...

'Rick Davis: Before becoming McCain's campaign manager, Davis "served as president of an advocacy group led by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that defended the two companies against increased regulation." As noted in the Progress Report, "During his tenure, Davis moved to challenge even the smallest measures to make sure that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are be held more accountable for their actions."'

'William Timmons: A consummate Washington insider, Timmons, who McCain tapped to head his presidential transition team, was a lobbyist with Timmons and Co., and lobbied for, among others, Freddie Mac. According to Time, "He has registered to work on bills that deal with the regulations of troubled mortgage lenders Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae."'

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/09/15/mccain-econ-team/

That last one appears also to be the one who lobbied on behalf of Saddam.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:05 PM

Do your homework, Amos...what i said is a WELL KNOWN FACT!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:07 PM

Thank you, CarolC, for once again validating my exact point...hey Kendall, you out there?? Just as I was saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: PoppaGator
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 02:35 PM

"This business of not being allowed to quote the contents of posts creates a lot of confusion, I know, but there isn't anything I can do about it."

I very often include a brief quote from a previous post so as to clarify whatever the hell it is that I'm trying to talk about. (See previous paragraph.)

I had not realized that this common-sense precedure was against any rules, and I'm still not sure that it really is proscribed. I do know, for sure, that I have not been censured for doing so, and I do this on a daily basis.

Please don't hestiate to copy-and-paste a brief reference to whatever argument you wish to refute, or to any discussion you wish to continue. Makes things easier for all of us trying to read through this stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:16 PM

LOL

Some people are desperate for validation. Others of us are just trying to follow our consciences.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:20 PM

I am not allowed to quote anything that other posters have said. I am also not allowed to copy paste anything that other posters have said. I am not allowed to address other posters directly. I am not allowed to refer directly to other posters. If I violate these rules, I will be barred from posting to the Mudcat. This rule applies only to me (at least, I am not aware of this rule applying to anyone else). It makes no sense to me, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:27 PM

Every time I see the title of this thread I smile and think...."Oh, please God, let it be so!"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:28 PM

Joe: I move these constraints be relieved.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: PoppaGator
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:35 PM

Joe ~ I second Amos' motion.

Carol ~ I would suggest that you push those limits a bit; see what happens if you use brief copied-and-pasted quotes, trying to comply with the spirit, if not the letter, of whatever special "laws" have been imposed on you and you alone.

There has to have been some reason for you to have been subjected to these special constraints. If you can understand why this happened, you should be able to adapt and resume making clear references without overdoing it. We can all hope that the powers-that-be will recognize that you are behaving yourself and need no longer be policed more stringently than the rest of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:39 PM

I'm sorry, but I don't really want to push the limits and then find out that I've been barred.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:40 PM

It's not like they've been particularly keen on cutting me any slack in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: meself
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:42 PM

"you jump my shit???"

??????

Is this gangsta-talk or jive-talk or what?

Just curious.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:09 PM

"he believes in entrepreneurism and support for small business"

Apparently the person that posted this has never lived under Socialisim and doesn't know what he is talking about.

Here is what comrade Obama wants for businesses:

THE HOUSE of Representatives is expected today to approve a bill, favored by organized labor, whose stated purpose is glaringly at odds with its key provision. The Employee Free Choice Act is portrayed by its supporters as a way to allow workers to choose whether to join a union.

Unfortunately, the legislation would do away with a secret ballot in so-called organizing elections, making it easier for union leaders to pressure co-workers in what should be a free choice. Instead of having the option of insisting on a secret ballot election, employers would have to accept a union formed on the basis of authorization cards signed by workers â€" not by a secret process....
....Unions once supported the secret ballot for organization elections. They were right then and are wrong now. Unions have every right to a fair hearing, and the National Labor Relations Board should be more vigilant about attempts by employers to game the system. In the end, however, whether to unionize is up to the workers. A secret ballot ensures that their choice will be a free one.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:14 PM

Forgot to post name on other one.....sorry....(shuffles out of the room)

From: meself
Date: 16 Oct 08 - 03:42 PM
"you jump my shit?
Is this gangsta-talk or jive-talk or what?
Just curious.

Naw, I'm not a 'gangsta'..and I ain't jivin'!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:40 PM

"he Annenburgs who were Republicans and had ties to Ronald Reagan. Does that make Ronald Reagan and the Annenburgs also terrorists by association"

Does that make Ayres Legit by assicaition?

Comrade Ayres: Viva Presidente Chavez! Viva La Revolucion Bolivariana!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:23 AM

Sawzaw, did you happen to notice that the article you cited is from March 2007? The Employee Free Choice Act is not before the House and, when brougt before the Senate last year, it died on a straight party-line vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:25 AM

You're pulling a long bow, there, pal. As usual.

Obama was endorsed by NOW. Yet, mysteriously, no-one is accusing him of being a woman. Or would you care to make the case?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:28 AM

First of all, anybody can quote anything I post and jump in my shit all they want but I advise them to wear boots.

What does it take to be a good community organizer? When Barack Obama trained community organizers for an ACORN subsidiary, Project Vote, he taught from the 1971 book 'Rules for Radicals', by the late socialist Saul Alinsky.

Although he attended Occidental College, and graduated from Columbia University and Harvard Law School, Obama calls his Alinskyite experience "the best education I ever had." In this photo, Obama is teaching Alinsky's principles of "Power Analysis" and "Relationships built on self-interest" as seen written upon the blackboard .

http://theunionnews.blogspot.com/2008/10/obamas-organizers-rat-patrol.html

Obama: "The only involvement I've had with ACORN is, I represented them alongside the U.S. Justice Department in making Illinois implement a motor voter law that helped people get registered at DMVs."

He did, but that wasn't his only involvement. He also worked closely with ACORN's Chicago office when he ran a Project Vote registration drive after law school, and Obama did some leadership training for Chicago ACORN. The Woods Fund, where Obama served as a board member, gave grants to ACORN's Chicago branch; both organizations are concerned with disadvantaged populations in that city. And during the primaries of this election, Obama's campaign paid upwards of $800,000 to the ACORN-affiliated Campaign Services Inc. for get-out-the-vote efforts (not voter registration). Those services were initially misrepresented on the campaign's Federal Election Commission reports, an error that some find suspicious and others say is par for the course. ACORN's Chicago office and CSI have not been under investigation.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_debate_no_3.html

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CamiSu
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:17 AM

Sawz--

I'm a bit intrigued by your yelling. Actually not. I have been dismayed to hear the shrill slogans being put out at the Republican rallies, as well as the boos and shouts of "Traitor" and "Kill him!" Such mob manipulation scares me, not accusations of "Socialist!"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:29 AM

Sawz:

What is your objection to the working relationships with ACORN, anyway? As a matter of record, they flagged any names they received from their temp workers which seemed improperly listed.

Would you think it preferable that they did not go out to register voters? If so, why?

If not, how would you suggest they manage the situation where the temp workers--minimum wage at best-- brought back a percentage of improperly listed names?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:42 AM

It might make Ayers legit and it might not. I don't know. But if Obama is a terrorist by association because of his having served on that board with Ayers, then that would mean that the Annenburgs, and by extension, McCain, himself are also terrorists for having even stronger ties with Ayers than Obama. The Annenburgs put Ayers on that board, and they have contributed to the McCain campaign. So McCain is being funded by terrorist supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:45 AM

ACORN has not done anything wrong, and they have not broken any laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:08 AM

Is that a fact????..and of course, you are privy to knowing this??

There you go again......

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:17 AM

According to the report sI have seen ACORN hired local temps tor egister voters and when ACORN received cards with unlikely names they flagged them before turning them all in, as required to do by law. They also penalized or fired the temps who pulled such stunts.

Where was the law-breaking here?

Are there ANY specific claims of fact? Or is this just another loud noise froma sinking ship?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:36 AM

Are there ANY specific claims of fact? Or is this just another loud noise from sinking ship?

I guess its going to court. Amos, I would think you'd be more interested in wanting ALL the facts to come out, and if there was wrong doing, for the guilty to be brought to justice, for the good of the country..than just promoting their line of defense, no matter what the facts would turn out to be...don't you think?

I'd be more interested in the facts coming out, intact, and letting the chips fall where they fall. I'm pretty sure, you'd think that would be unreasonable, but in actuality, the truth coming out, is more important.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:43 AM

I just re-read my post, before this one......Has everyone fallen off their rockers?? I can not believe, that anyone even needed to post it

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:48 AM

I am asking if there are any facts, aside from what we've already recounted on this thread.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:52 AM

I certainly hope so. I'm sure more will come out. Until then, I think it best to have an open mind, and just wait....without bias, or blockage.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 03:22 AM

Even taking it to court under the circumstances is an abuse of power. When the courts are used as a way of suppressing legitimate votes in the absence of any wrongdoing, that is an illegal abuse of power.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27245181#27245181

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27245744#27245744

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:14 AM

'Obama is a socialist......'

you should be so lucky!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:07 AM

Raising a false issue in the hopes of locking in public attention is a frivolous misuse of the law for political gain.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:45 AM

""GfS is correct that a balance of capitalism and socialism is the best way to go. They are natural partners and should be able to work together quite effectively (as they presently do in most if not all western democracies). The endless diatribes that bounce back and forth between Left and Right are not helping things much, they are simply maintaining strife and distraction.""

Exactly what I've been getting clobbered for saying, these many years LH.

Also Capital and Labour! Neither can exist in the modern world, without the other.

The days when a man could establish a small farm, and be totally self sufficient, are over.

The socialist, who would destroy capital, has no idea of the cosequences. His hatred is based on a misunderstanding of what capital does, and what really surprises me is that some of the best educated men I know, cannot see that without capital to drive production, there would be Nothing for labour to do to earn a living.

Likewise, the capitalist who complains about the attitude of labour cannot see that without labour to DO the producing, he would have NO capital.


What is it, for God's sake, that is so difficult to understand about finding a workable balance that gives each side what it needs to be reasonably happy.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:38 PM

Some things are best done by a person working in his ow her own, or with a few others, with resources they can get hold of through their own efforts. That's private enterprise.

Some things need a lot of people to work together, with resources they have to get from elsewhere. That means some kind of public enterprise, either based on a co-operative of some sort, or with the local or national elected government involved.

Or it means a corporate business model, which increasingly means the banks and the dodgy investment scheme they have set up, are in control.

There's no reason why private enterprise and public enter[rise can't exist alongside each other perfectly happily. The same can be true of corporate enterprise, but not in a dominating role.

What has happened is that people have bought into the idea that private enterprise and corporate enterprise are the same thing, and that there is no room for anything else. And what that in practice means is that corporate enterprise (ie the banks and the investment funds) dominate everything, and to a growing extent grind down real "private enterprise".

In our town we've got two places you can go to to fix a pushbike. There's a great little bicycle shop, selling and repairing, tucked away in a side street. Rapid friendly service, fix anything, chat about anything, can supply anything.

And we've also got a great big Halfords with a bike section. Nothing like as good, costs you more and takes longer to do the work. But they have a big store in a shopping centre, and lots of advertising.

Yesterday I had to take a bike in to be fixed, and of course I went to the little shop. "We're closing down in seven weeks".

Another nail in the coffin of genuine free enterprise, and a victory for corporate business.

Diatribes against socialism are picking the wrong target, and letting the real enemy get away with murder.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 03:42 PM

From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:45 AM

""GfS is correct that a balance of capitalism and socialism is the best way to go.

Watch out, Don, Agreeing with me means two things...the crazies will still form lynch mobs to clobber you..and the other is..well, you might be sane, too!

Cheers!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 07:50 PM

Hey, can someone tell me what is wrong with Hugo Chavez--other than the fact that when Bush tells him to jump, instead of saying, "Yessir, how high?" he says, "Screw you!" ?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:22 PM

There's nothing wrong with Hugo Chavez. He's reviled by the government of this country because he is an impediment to their goal of total world domination.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:27 PM

Yeah!..China thinks so too!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:27 PM

reviled by the government of this country? It seems to me that Mr. Chavez is generally treated as he deserves...which is to be ignored. And, saving your presence, to think that the US government wants to dominate the world is just silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:54 PM

It is known and documented fact that the US has been interfering in other countries' democracies for decades, getting rid of leaders who aren't willing to do our bidding, even democratically elected ones, and installing puppets who are. The government of this country has been trying to get rid of Chavez for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:56 PM

2oo!