BS: Obama is a socialist

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:48 AM

Better start looking for your camel, if you can't answer the question. And knock it off with the avoidances, and subject changes!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 02:10 AM

You're projecting again, Minnie.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 02:12 AM

Say what you want..but still no answer!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 02:49 AM

My answer to the question would be that we always have had, and we always will have, a mixture of capitalism and socialism in this country (as I have been saying here in this forum for years), and candidates finger pointing at other candidates about being "socialists" is extremely dishonest. And I've already shown that McCain is as much of a socialist as Obama.

I'm all for a mixture of capitalism and socialism. I expect that Obama will, as all other presidents before him, support our having such a mixture. Whether or not he will live up to my hopes for his presidency remains to be seen. But I'll never find out if he doesn't get elected. So that one's a no brainer.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 02:54 AM

I should also mention that one of the reasons I prefer Obama's kind of socialism over McCain's kind of socialism is because McCain's kind of socialism favors the very rich, while Obama's favors everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 03:11 AM

"McCain is pointing fingers at Obama for stuff he has done himself."

Like having dinner with Khalidi and his wife on a regular basis and shooting the shit? Like being a board member along with a domestic terrorist?

If McCain is as radical as Obama, why not vote for him? He gave even more money to Khalidi so he must be a better guy.


"Who's got it wrong here????" If what you say is true, obviously the people that vote for Obama are wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 03:18 AM

These opinions seem to indicate Socialism is good and socialism is what we need.

It'd be good if he was

I only wish he were.

I see socialism as the normal state of affairs.

If he was a socialist, all the more reason to vote for him

Canadians have been praying for years that a socialist would get elected

Obama is a socialist, you say? God, I hope so!! One more reason to vote for him!

I's about time!

So if Obama is not a socialist, he is not the man to vote for.

On the other hand if the Republican bailout bill is socialism, They are the ones to vote for, not Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 03:24 AM

Yes, things he has done himself - like consorting with terrorists and having close ties with Khalidi.

McCain's definitely a radical, but he's a Neocon radical, and we've seen how much damage they can do. It's time for the Neocon radicals to go the way of the dinosaurs.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 03:27 AM

McCain's brand of socialism (these days) is corporate socialism, in which the large corporations get to keep all of the profits, and the taxpayers get to take on all of the risk. As Ms Palin is supposed to have said, "Thanks, but no thanks." Only an idiot would vote for that system if they weren't a member of the corporate elite themself.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 03:48 AM

Carol echos what I have been saying all along..a mixture(I used the word 'balance'). When people hear the word 'Socialist',one conjures up a type as 'Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republic, and to ask questions about that, before one votes, IS A LEGITIMATE QUESTION!..Don't you think??

With all the hemming and hawing, from the Obama camp don't you think it reasonable, that people should be leery? There are just too many unanswered questions, and allegations surrounding him, and his past associates for MANY to feel completely comfortable with just what kind of socialism, and how much.

McCain, on the other hand, supported a 'corporate socialism', which to a lot of people, for just cause, to feel equally uncomfortable, considering, that he has been linked to supporting some of the policies of this past administration..so to ask questions, and seek answers, is also NOT UNREASONABLE!

That being said, there are also BIG questions that this whole socialist topic has many watchful citizens, frustrated about for not getting straight up answers...BECAUSE NOBODY IS ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS!!!

For instance: With the North American Union, we dissolve our borders, and change our currency.....These 'treaties' are going on without ANY press, and the American public knows hardly anything about these ongoing 'arrangements'. the press must not think this an issue that interest us,..or it's being kept from us. 'You sir, being a candidate for president, what is your position on that?'(either one, preferably both!!)............'Sir, the last administration heaped upon itself unprecedented executive powers, that by any interpretation of the law, is unconstitutional, What is your position, and would you pledge to rescind them?'(both)
'Sir, in recent events extraordinary powers were given to the Treasurer to get money from the Federal Reserve, without oversight or even a vote from either house..coupled with the executive powers, which the president now has(unconstitutionally), how would you change that???...Being as you both are claiming 'Change'??'

Now, don't you think those are REASONABLE questions for the presidential candidates to be addressing, instead of 'How much did the RNC spend on Sarah Palin's clothes'?????

And Amos, you still haven't answered the earlier question. I would expected you would have dropped your pom-poms, and jumped right in with a talking point. I take it that your out gathering up your camel!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 03:55 AM

We have reason to be leery of any politician. But if we want to participate in the process (and some of us do), we have to decide who we think is most likely to make the changes we think the country needs. There's nothing wrong with people doing that. What is wrong, is if, after the candidate they voted for gets elected, they don't hold that person's feet to the fire the entire time they're in office.

I'm not leery of Obama because of those charges that a bunch of liars have been spreading about him. The people doing that want me to vote for McCain so they can continue giving my tax money to people who don't need it. The people I'm leery of are the ones who I know are trying to mislead me into voting against my best interests.

And the post I am now responding to is a prime example of why I am fairly convinced that the person who posted it is campaigning for McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 04:01 AM

From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 03:55 AM

We have reason to be leery of any politician. ---RIGHT!!!

I'm not leery of Obama because of those charges that a bunch of liars have been spreading about him.---THEN PROVE IT!!!

And the post I am now responding to is a prime example of why I am fairly convinced that the person who posted it is campaigning for McCain.---FALSE! I AM NOT A McCAIN SUPPORTER, SO LETS NOT DEFLECT LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 04:23 AM

Already did prove it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 04:40 AM

I didn't say deny the charges. I meant by 'prove', I was not referring give sources as to where the lie originated from, and his RECORD to show otherwise...something concrete!..Because so far, he is not credible for being on the up and up. He has made too many mistakes to simply disregard!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 04:47 AM

typo in other one

I didn't say deny the charges. What I meant by 'prove', I was referring to giving sources as to where the lie (or misunderstanding)originated from, and show it was a lie..and his RECORD to show otherwise...something concrete!..Because so far, he is not credible for being on the up and up. He has made too many mistakes to simply disregard! By every indication, there is just too much evidence, just in his past associations!....Can't you see that nothing substantial has been given from him??..When his history shows just the opposite?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 06:13 AM

Let's have another look at my statement...

I'm not leery of Obama because of those charges that a bunch of liars have been spreading about him

As we can see, what I said is that I am not leery of Obama. Let's go over that one again... I in this case, refers to me. I (me, not anyone else) am not leery of Obama. Let's take that one apart. Leery = suspicious, wary. I am not leery of Obama. That's pretty straightforward. Let's move on...

I am not leery of Obama, despite the lies that people have been telling about him. It looks like I am being told to prove that the things I am calling lies about Obama are not true. I said I already did prove them to be lies and not true.

In the context of my statement, ie: that I am not leery of Obama because of any lies that have been told about him, the operative word is "I". I am not leery of Obama. I am not leery of Obama because I have proved to my satisfaction, that the accusations being spread about Obama are lies.

Since it is my being leery, or my lack of being leery that is in question (in regards to my original statement), I don't need to prove it to the satisfaction of anyone else. I only need to prove it to my satisfaction.

I don't have to justfy my opinions to anyone, nor do I have to justify how I vote to anyone. Anyone who thinks they have a right to dictate others' opinions or their votes has some serious delusions of grandeur. (As do people who say that something I have been saying for years right here in the open forum is "echoing" something being said by someone who showed up fairly recently.)

On the subject of proving to my satisfaction that Obama is not a socialist... if he was, his health care program would be single payer, not for profit. Which is the health care model I personally prefer. He's not doing that. His approach is largely a market based one, in which the capitalist insurance companies get to continue to make a profit off of sick people. Nevertheless, it is abundantly apparent that we will not get a single payer not for profit health care system in this country any time soon, so I am willing to settle for a system in which I am able to obtain health insurance through the market (which I cannot do now).

As far as his being a radical is concerned. Let's have a look at that. For some reason, some people seem to think that Obama is the only person in the world who is not allowed to have any associations with Bill Ayers whatever without being accused of having ties to domestic terrorists. He is the only person in the whole world who is not allowed to have any associations whatever with Bill Ayers without being called a radical. The idiocy of that formulation really shouldn't require any comment from me (so sad, then, that some people seem to think that it does).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 11:05 AM

"large corporations get to keep all of the profits, and the taxpayers get to take on all of the risk."

How is this attributable to McCain without including Obama and everybody that voted for the bailout?

If the Dems are so non socialistic and the Repubs so socialistic, all the Dems had to do was vote against the bill to prove it.

After explaining that, explain how Khalidi influenced McCain with his ideology?

And explain how Khalidi did not influence Obama even though they had a long, close personal relationship and discussed ideologial matters?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 11:28 AM

Guest from "Sanity"?

I missed your question at first but I believe I have answered it.

If not, ask me again and I will attempt to answer.

"Only an idiot would vote for that system if they weren't a member of the corporate elite themself."

You are taking on the air of elitism yourself and you are attributing your personal definition of the bailout bill entirely to McCain and exonerating the Democrats who voted for it, after it was ammended to suit them, as you attempted to do with GLBA.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 11:29 AM

Sawz:

You put out more codswallop per sqaure post than an army of prepubescent boys.

THere is no evidence that Barack Obama's thinking is anything other than what he says it is. Why do you keep searching so desperately from bogey-men and scary poster-monsters to try and intimidate people from using their common sense and listening to the man's thoughts as he presents them?

At least come up with some concrete evidence that any such influence exists and that if it does exist it is in any way at all a "negative" influence in some way.

LEt me put it another way: do you thik the President of the United States should be ignorant of Palestinian issues, or that by learning about them he in some way is disloyal to his friendship with ISrael? Do you think hatred is more important than information in a leader? Thse are the impressions you are producing, FWIW.


What ideas do you think Khalid might have infected Barack Obama with? WHat evidence do tyou have that he is vulnerable to such infection? I woudl guess "None".



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:35 PM

Buffet on the socilistic bailout bill that CC blames on McCain:

Buffett warns Congress Lawmakers face "biggest financial meltdown in American history" if they don't act.

AMERICA'S MONEY CRISIS / CNN
   
(New York) -- Legendary investor Warren Buffett (Obama's "unbelievable friend" and "one of the people I listen to.")warned Congressional leaders Saturday night of "the biggest financial meltdown in American history" if they did not act to secure the financial system.

Buffett, by telephone, was consulted by lawmakers who were in marathon talks on Capitol Hill to forge a deal on the administration's $700 billion economic bailout plan, according to two sources.

One lawmaker in the negotiations said that the participants called Warren Buffett to get his help in gauging potential market reaction.

Congressional leaders said shortly after midnight Saturday that they had reached a tentative deal. Members of both parties and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson were aiming to craft final legislation by Sunday evening -- in time for the start of financial markets around the world...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:42 PM

Sawzaw,I believe you misunderstood. I am not placing the blame on McCain anymore than Obama, ok?

CarolC, I believe you clarified your leeriness of Obama...or lack of it, but not much else, as to the other bigger questions.

The bigger questions, that nobody knows how to answer, because the candidates, and the media is avoiding it(especially Obama..but both) is: 'If the North American Union, becomes inclusive of Mexico, AND CENTRAL AMERICA(down to Panama, as planned), Will Obama's welfare re-distribution of our paychecks, be inclusive of all the North American continent, including Canada?'
NOW, ISN'T THAT WORTH ASKING???????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:53 PM

http://www.zombietime.com/prairie_fire/pfdedication2.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:56 PM

I don't know for sure if this "North American Union" is a hoax or if it is real.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 02:08 PM

So far, it looks like a hoax to me.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/nau.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/amero.asp


http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/corsis_dull_hatchet.html

Corsi's Track Record

Corsi is a renowned conspiracy theorist who says that George Bush is attempting to create a North American Union (we looked at that here) and that there is evidence that the World Trade Center may have collapsed because it was seeded with explosives. More recently, Corsi claimed that Obama released a fake birth certificate. We've debunked that twice now. And, as our colleagues at PolitiFact.com found, many of the themes in "The Obama Nation" are reworked versions of bogus chain e-mail smears.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/wrong_paul.html

According to Paul, a secret organization run by unaccountable government figures is in league with foreign corporations who are all bent on usurping American sovereignty. That's not from the script for a new X-Files movie. (Or not that we know of.) It's the gist of Paul's description of a supposed "NAFTA Superhighway." Paul describes it on his Web site as "a ten-lane colossus the width of several football fields, with freight and rail lines, fiber-optic cable lines, and oil and natural gas pipelines running alongside." And that's not all. According to Paul, the ultimate plan is to form a North American Union with a single currency and unlimited travel within its borders, all headed up by "an unholy alliance of foreign consortiums and officials from several governments" that together form the shadowy "quasi-government organization called the 'Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America,' or SPP."

The problem with Paul's claim is that there are no plans to build a NAFTA Superhighway. Or a North American Union, for that matter. And while the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America does exist, it's just a boring bureaucracy.

Like many conspiracy theories, this one is a mixture of fact and fiction. improvements to existing roads, but is not lobbying for, or planning to build, any new thoroughfares. From the NASCO That scary-looking map, with lines that rumor suggested were drawn to scale, is the product of an actual group called North America's SuperCorridor Organization (NASCO), which is a consortium of public and private entities. But contrary to conspiracy theorists, the map does not show a new highway. Those bright blue lines show only I-35 and I-29 – interstates that already exist. On its Web site, NASCO says it and some of the local governments along I-35 have been referring to that route as the "NAFTA Superhighway" for years.

    NASCO: "NAFTA Superhighway" - As of late, there has been much media attention given to the "new, proposed NAFTA Superhighway". NASCO and the cities, counties, states and provinces along our existing Interstate Highways 35/29/94 (the NASCO Corridor) have been referring to I-35 as the 'NAFTA Superhighway' for many years, as I-35 already carries a substantial amount of international trade with Mexico, the United States and Canada. There are no plans to build a new NAFTA Superhighway - it exists today as I-35.

http://cdn.factcheck.org/imagefiles/2008.02.06_wrongpaul/NAFTA%20Superhighway.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 02:57 PM

Good on ya, Sawz, for looking behind the rabble-rousing and seeking facts.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 07:07 PM

From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:56 PM

I don't know for sure if this "North American Union" is a hoax or if it is real.

Well, sure worth asking about.....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 09:18 PM

"large corporations get to keep all of the profits, and the taxpayers get to take on all of the risk."

Obama has promised that the taxpayers will be paid back first, and he will also use the taxpayers' money to create jobs though investing in infrastructure and in green technologies, unlike McCain who just wants to give free money and more tax breaks to the companies that are the cause of the problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 09:26 PM

McCain must already have been in sympathy with Khalidi's ideology, otherwise I doubt he would have given him more than a half million dollars (almost a half million on one occasion, and there were other occasions in which McCain gave him money).

On whether or not Obama was influenced by Khalidi's ideology, being someone's friend doesn't mean that they will absorb that friend's ideology by osmosis or anything. I have friends and relatives who are of the right wing, but so far, their ideology has not rubbed off on me. All people need to do to know where Obama stands on this particular issue is to look at his record. (A stance and a record that I do not agree with myself, incidentally.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 09:31 PM

We were asked whether or not is reasonable for people to be leery of Obama. I answered the question from my own perspective. I can't speak for anyone else. If someone else feels a need to be leery of Obama, that's their business. I can only answer that question from my own perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 09:36 PM

My guess about that Sirhan Sirhan dedication is that Ayers is one of the people who believe that Sirhan Sirhan was set up, but that he wasn't the person who actually killed Bobby Kennedy. There actually are a lot of people who see it that way. Here's an example...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/FBI/Who_Killed_R_Kennedy.html

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 04:31 AM

'Over $250,000...uh.hmm..I meant $150,000.....Richardson, why did you tell them we talked about $120,000...Jeez, people will think I'm lying to them, again...I want them to forget I voted for $42,000..0r was it $41,000 ????// Awww don't worry, they're blind with enthusiasm...anything I tell them they'll think is the truth.....Now go out and book another T.V. spot!! Just don't let them forget, that they love me!!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:02 AM

That's another example of the lies that people are telling voters in order to try to fool them into voting against their own financial interests.

The 250,000 figure, which Obama has consistently used in his platform, is the income under which people will not have their taxes raised. He has consistently said this. He said, no one making under $250,000 will see their income tax raised. He has never said that people between $200,000 and $250,000 would get a tax cut.

The $150,000 figure is the income below which people will experience a reduction in their taxes.

The Obama campaign has been perfectly consistent in who they've said would get a tax cut, whose taxes would remain the same, and who would see their taxes increase. The only thing that has changed is which particular lies the McCain campaign has decided to tell on any particular day.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:10 AM

Here's the figures. In my last post I said "no one" would see a tax increase with an income under $250,000, but I should have said, no families. Here's what Obama's website says (and has said, all along)...

$250,000 and under, no tax increase for families
$200,000 and under, no tax increase for individuals

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Tax_Plan_Comparison_FINAL.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:33 AM

I guess you missed Bill Richardson's statement on video, being played on the news.....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:56 AM

According to the Obama website, the $150,000 figure is for married couples. So I'm guessing the $120,000 figure is for people filing individually. Obama has said that 95% of working Americans will have their taxes cut under his plan.

Under McCain's plan, the people who make the most will have their taxes cut the most. Those who make less will have their taxes cut less. Under McCain's plan, for instance, JtS and I will experience a very small tax cut, only a few hundred dollars. Under Obama's plan, our taxes will be cut a few thousand dollars. Plus, as small business owners, we will not have to pay capital gains taxes, and we'll receive a tax credit for providing our employees (us) with health insurance. We're probably in the same tax bracket as the majority of people in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:31 AM

As in the UK, the people who make the most money actually pay proportionately less tax.....the "getout clause"is built into the system.
The taxation systems both in US and UK, are corrupt and unfair....the rich just opt out...they do something more profitable with their money, using one of the many loopholes.
The poor in comparison, need all their earnings just to survive and so are caught in the corrupt taxation trap.
The bullshit being spouted by both candidates will make no difference to this situation.....simply tinkering with a failed system.

You had the chance to get up off your arses and given Bush's universal unpopularity, give your country a real fresh start, but it appears you've been conned into continuing with "corporatelite" Obama.
Its still Corporate America......but with a shiny, smiley face...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:45 AM

We shall see.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 07:59 AM

Obama has remained consistent with his tax proposals from the very beginning and that is why the McCain campaugn has put so much energy into trying to make it *sound* otherwise... Remember, the Repubs still believe in Roveian politics where you attack the strenght of your opponent...

They used it against a parapalegic Vietnam vet back in 2000 to win a ZSenate seat from S.B. or was it Georgia??? Anyway, the guy was attacked for his forien policy views... I'd say that a guy who lost three limbs in Vietnam has all the right in the world to voice his views but the Rovians painted him as unAmerican...

This is the only way they know to campaign since they do not have any real, ahhhh, friggin' ideas opf their own other than letting the lobbiests run the country...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:11 PM

Amos:

I always try to check things out before I post them. I believe they are facts and not just a bunch of opinions, mo matter if 90% of people think something is true, it may not be true.

Yes, I am subject to knee jerk reactions and may jump too quick but I am also ready to retract something if it turns out to be false.

As to Obama being infected with something from Khalidi or Ayers, How would anybody ever prove anything about one person influencing another?

However people do not associate with someone they don't like or do not get along with.

Then there is the axiom that you are known by the friends you keep. Obama has never admitted to being friends with Ayers but admits to being friends with Khalidi and discussing ideologies with him.

Every time I check out the validity of something about Obama, the name of another former terrorist, Muslim extremist, radical, Marxist, convicted felon etc pops up. If is as intelligent as he proclaims, why didn't he have the good judgment to stay clear of these people? Or does political expediency trump morals?

I seems to me that the Chicago political establishment is a nest of Liberal elitists and you can't work your way up with out supporting them and owing them favors. They look down on the average American and tell him he is disadvantaged, down trodden, poor etc. They believe they know what is best for them like their flock of sheep.

Fuck'em all.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:35 PM

"However people do not associate with someone they don't like or do not get along with."

When I was working construction, for the past 35 yrs just about every day I had to work with & get along with people I didn't like & didn't want to assocate with but I did it & I wouldn't have been able to keep my job if I didn't.

If Obama has to keep a distance from all the people hat you believe he needds to keep a distance from, weither he knows their background or not the he'll have to move into a cave. A great place for him to be running a campain from.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:41 PM

McCain has admitted to being friends with Oliver North and G. Gordon Liddy, two known terrorists. How do we know they haven't "infected" him? And as they say, a person is known by the friends they keep.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 07:11 PM

I have a very good friend who is an out and out reactionary, basically something pretty close to a White supremacist, and we agree on very little when it comes to politics or social issues. But he's still a good friend, because we share many common interests in folk music and because he has proven to be a 100% honest and reliable friend through thick and thin and can always be depended on when the chips are down.

He has said things that would have created a scandal for ANY presidential candidate if you can establish guilt by mere association with someone.

Now, if I was running for president, some asshole in the other party would hire people to snoop around, find about about my friend, and use it to attack MY credibility even though I do not agree with my friend's political opinions at all.

Thank God, however, I am not running for president. Nor would I, even if I had all the qualifications and experience. It isn't worth the shit you have to put up with when you're put in that position.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 07:43 PM

"wants to give free money" How so? I thought free money was from Obama to people that did not pay any income tax.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 07:55 PM

McCain's only plan for fixing our economic mess is to cut corporate taxes even further than they already are. He doesn't have any plan to make sure the taxpayers get paid back for the handouts we're giving to the big banks and corporations. That's corporate welfare - free money for the big corporations from us taxpayers, in the amount of more than a trillion dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 08:35 PM

Sawzaw, income taxes are not the only taxes. About half the taxes the average person pays in each year are NOT income tax, they are other forms of taxation that are built into society at every level of monetary exchange, and everybody pays them, including the poorest people. They are inescapable unless you vanish into the wilderness, live off the land in a leanto or a teepee, and stop using money altogether.

To give poor people a tax rebate is to give them a rebate from all those other taxes...not from income tax they never paid.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 09:23 PM

However people do not associate with someone they don't like or do not get along with.

Of course they do, in all walks of life. And politicians, and other show business types more than most.

You can't really think people in politics or show business actually like each other, Bush likes McCain? Bill and Hilary Clinton like Obama? Don't be daft.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 10:49 PM

From: akenaton
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:31 AM

The bullshit being spouted by both candidates will make no difference

You had the chance to get up off your arses and given Bush's universal unpopularity, give your country a real fresh start, but it appears you've been conned into continuing with "corporatelite" Obama.
Its still Corporate America......but with a shiny, smiley face...Ake

Now, as to associations, as stated by Little Hawk, and others,..I don't particularly agree with ALL Akenaton's political philosophies, however, she is dead on right on this one

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 11:58 PM

Thank God, however, I am not running for president.

LH:

I agree wholeheartedly!


Sawz:

Thanks--you sound more reasonable these days.


There is a world of difference between keeping company with someone and dealing with them in your work life.

Obama has a strong friendship with David Axelrod, for example. I suspect he has never had a strong link of affinity with Ayers, or any of the other folks you are alarmed about. I think you have misread the man's character completely.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 12:07 AM

I don't think you get my drift, Amos... ;-)

Look, if by some hideous twist of fate I were running for president of the USA, I would never have the ghost of a chance of getting elected anyway, because my opinions are comparable to those of Dennis Kucinich...and they wouldn't even let him into the later Democratic primary debates. It is inconceivable that I could be elected president, given my views. It is inconceivable that either the Democrats or Republicans would want me as their candidate. I despise both those political parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 01:09 AM

FBI Asserts Cuba Aided Weathermen

By NICHOLAS M. HORROCK The New York Times

WASHINGTON, Oct. 8 - Cuban espionage agents operating in the United States and Canada supplied limited aid to the Weather Underground, a militant antiwar organization, in the late 1960's and early 1970's, according to a top-secret report of the Federal Bureau of Investigation

Some technical assistance was also provided by North Vietnam, the report says, but there was no evidence that the Soviet Union, China or Eastern European nations ever made direct attempts to stir up American dissidents.

The 400-page report, a copy of which has been obtained by The New. York Times, was prepared in August 1976 after the Department of Justice opened a criminal investigation into charges that bureau agents had committed burglaries and carried out illegal mail openings and wiretaps in their attempts to apprehend Weathermen fugitives.

The closely held report - only 10 copies were sent to the bureau director, Clarence M. Kelley - was aimed at establishing that members of the Weather Underground were operating as secret agents of a foreign power and were thus legitimate targets of counterintelligence measures.

The report disclosed, however, that Communist bloc nations had given little tangible support to the American antiwar movement. The report was based upon information from the Central Intelligence Agency, several foreign intelligence services, a wide range of American and foreign police agencies, electronic eavesdropping and reports of several confidential informers.

The following were some of the key points:

-Three years before militant members of the students for a Democratic Society split off to form the Weather Underground Organization in 1970, North Vietnamese and Cuban officials were influencing radical antiwar strategy through foreign meetings. Many of these meetings were held in Communist countries, including Hungary, Czechoslovakia and North Vietnam,

-The conduit for contact in the United States was a group of intelligence agents assigned to the staff of the Cuban Mission to the United Nations in New York. These agents arranged for American youths to be inculcated with revolutionary fervor and, occasionally, to be trained in practical weaponry by Cuban military officers through the so-called Venceremos Brigades.

-After the Weathermen went "underground" in 1970 and many of them were being sought by the F.B.I. on criminal charges, Cuban intelligence officers were in touch with them from both the New York mission and the Cuban Embassy in Canada.

-Cuban officials helped several Weather Underground adherents who feared arrest in the United States to travel to Prague, Czechoslovakia, and then to reenter the United Slates surreptitiously.

The report linked the growing militancy of certain members of the Students for a Democratic Society, which resulted in the so-called Days of Rage in Chicago in 1969; to North Vietnamese advice the year before to choose youngsters who would battle with the police.

The North Vietnamese, according to S.D.S. literature of the time, had suggested that the antiwar movement needed not just intellectual protesters but also physically rugged recruits....