BS: Obama is a socialist

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:03 PM

If by some miracle Obama does turn out to be a "socialist", I only hope that he will remain one after he's elected! ;-) Christ knows, socialism needs all the help it can get down there in FantasyLand USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:07 PM

I suppose it's an example of the same process by which taboo swear-words lose their power as people use them more freely, so they move on to something stronger. (I won't give examples, because I think we've got to a stage where it's time to go in the opposite direction, so far as swear-words are concerned.)

The word "liberal", after being misused in American politics as a demonising insult word for year in and year out, has lost some its power to wound. Possibly it may even have occurred to some listeners that they live in a country which had always prided itself since its foundation as being a "liberal democracy".

So a totally inappropriate word gets plucked out of the air and used to replace or supplement it. "Socialism" is a word that is identified as a bad thing in the USA - so "Socialist" is the label to apply to Obama, regardless of the fact that there is absolutely nothing "Socialist" about his politics. (The more appropriate term might be "Liberal Conservatism" or possibly "Conservative Liberalism.)

It's rather similar to the way the word "Muslim" has been used - if a word has associations that many Americans don't like, that's the one to use, regardless of the fact that it is totally inappropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:04 PM

Obama could just as easily be a Republican. One some issues he is to the right of McCain, such as calling for the US to defend Afghanistan against Pakistan who is using the Taliban by proxy to control tribal areas.

Obama would be a William Buckley kind of conservative. Buckley worked to get the demogogues, nut bags, John Birches, anti Semites and other fringe secessionist types out of the Republican Party. That is the kind of Republican Obama could be, minus the voodoo economic plan that has finally gone full course to the bottom.

Obama can also be a FDR socialist. In other words, Barack is so temperate and deliberate in his decision making that he is not an ideolog for any party whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:05 PM

In propaganda terms, that sort of thing is known as "newspeak".

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:08 PM

crossposted

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:37 AM

Bobby Rush, co-founder of the Black Panther Party, endorses Obama

The Black Panthers literally burst onto the American scene with their now famous "shotgun" invasion of Sacramento, Calif. Legislative session. Legions of words have been written about this event already, but it quickly became a topic of discussion during this writer's visit with Bobby Rush as we delved into what he termed the "return to the original vision."

"The invasion," Rush stated, "was a military act for political reasons."

Rush insisted that the Panther Party was organized to fill a political void at the "grass roots" level. And the "invasion" of the California capitol was designed to capture the minds of Black people and make them aware of both the Panthers and what Black people could opt to do if they chose. At the same time Rush states the "invasion" was designed to make Black people aware of the fact that the system was bent on disarming the Black community.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:40 AM

Amos:

You said it was a crock and I am agreeing with you that for Obama to change his policies on the run and say anything to get elected is a crock. Real chameleonship.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:49 AM

As I've posted before, a Capitalist/Socialist balance works. Either one, out of balance, doesn't!

Speaking of Obama endorsements....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfvE-P--2Zw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:15 AM

Ooops, typo and additional info...


From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:12 AM

From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:37 AM

Bobby Rush, co-founder of the Black Panther Party,

You mean, Bobby Seale. Bobby Rush is an R/B singer, another is a congressman.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: john f weldon
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 07:54 AM

Remember Garrison K's jokey song of 6 yrs ago: "We're all Republicans Now."? Looks like in 2008, they're all socialists now!

George Bush, John McCain, and now (gasp!) Allan (oops-I-was-wrong) Greenspan??!!!!??

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/docudrama/2008/10/24/ayn-rand-devotee-says-greenspans-philoshopy-not-anything-resembling-a-free-mar

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:10 PM

I am wrong. you are right. I apologize.

It is Bobby Rush, former member of the Marxist/Maoist Black Panther Party, that endorses Obama, not Bobby Seale.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:17 PM

Rashid and Mona Khalidi became close friends of Barack and Michelle Obama during the time when both Barack and Rashid taught at the University of Chicago (1992-2003). At a lavish farewell party for Khalidi in Chicago in 2003, when Khalidi left his prestigious position at the University of Chicago for an even more prestigious one at Columbia University in New York, Obama gave Khalidi a glowing eulogy. He said that he and his wife Michelle had been frequent dinner guests of the Khalidis, and that the Khalidis had frequently babysat for the Obama children. According to a Los Angeles Times account based on a video of Obama's speech, he added that "his many talks with the Khalidis, . . .had been 'consistent reminders to me of my own blind spots and my own biases. . . . It's for that reason that I'm hoping that, for many years to come, we continue that conversation-a conversation that is necessary not just around Mona and Rashid's dinner table,' but around 'this entire world.'"

Obama's assistance to the Khalidis, however, went beyond mere kind words at a farewell party. In 2001 and again in 2002, Obama, in his capacity as a member of the board of directors of the Woods Fund, voted to give the Arab-American Action Network co-founded by Rashid and Mona, and directed by Mona Khalidi, $75,000 in grants.

Rashid and Mona Khalidi anticipated Obama's generosity to AAAN by holding a fundraiser in their house for Obama's unsuccessful run for Congress in 2000. It would seem that it later proved to be a profitable event for the Khalidis

Rashid Khalidi was the director of the PLO's press agency WAFA from 1976 to 1982, at a time when the PLO was conducting a massacre of 37 Israeli civilians in a bus on Israel's coastal road, the brutal murder of a four-year-old Israeli girl in Nahariya, and numerous other terrorist killings of Israeli civilians. The PLO was also waging a brutal war against the Lebanese Christian community during this period, and carried out numerous massacres of Lebanese Christians; the worst of these was the killing of about 500 people in the village of Damour.

During this same period, Rashid's wife Mona Khalidi was an English translator for WAFA. Rashid Khalidi is now an advocate of a "one state solution" for all of "Palestine" - meaning the destruction of Israel and its replacement by an Arab state. Asaf Romirowsky and Jonathan Calt Harris, in an article in the Washington Times on July 9, 2004, summarized Rashid Khalidi's views about Israel this way: "[His] extremism comes out when he calls Israel an 'apartheid system in creation' and a 'racist state' that 'brainwashed' Americans do not understand. Jerusalem, with its Jewish majority since the 1880s, he deems 'an Arab city' whose control by Israeli 'foreigners' is 'unacceptable.' And so on." Khalidi also accuses Israel of "ethnic cleansing."

In 1995 Rashid and Mona Khalidi co-founded the The Arab-American Action Network, a virulently anti-Israel organization that strongly supports the Palestinian Arab terrorist movement. It regards the creation of the state of Israel as a "naqba" ("catastrophe" in Arabic).

Mona Khalidi served as the group's President from its inception until some time this year, although she is now listed only as a member of its board of directors.

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.1566/pub_detail.asp

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:46 PM

Obama And Radical Backers Threaten America
2008-10-23 Harrisonburg Daily News, William Becker

CANDIDATES FOR PUBLIC office, like most of us, are the cumulative products of the influences of people they meet and the books they read. The books include such diverse resources as the Bible to the "Rules for Radicals," which brings us to Saul D. Alinsky and Barack H. Obama.

Obama's collegiate activities, campus affiliations and the other particulars of his student years continue to remain a closely guarded secret. His Chicago days surely clarify any uncertainty as to whether or not he read about the propagation of social change through grassroots organization and intimidation as recommended by Alinsky.

To further foster the class warfare paradigm, add the cumulative effect of 20 years in Rev. Jeremiah Wright's sanctuary. At the very least, the senator's grasp of biblical truth has been seriously degraded by Wright's "Black Liberation Theology."

This victim-based false gospel has its roots in Latin America. Blended with a Marxist twist, it has been the bane of traditional Catholicism in the Southern Hemisphere for decades. The Chicago version espoused by Wright packages this unbiblical theology with class warfare and anti-Americanism to stir up the faithful and mobilize them for grassroots action.

ACORN, which endorses Obama, and Alinsky, however, should make news headlines this week. Alinsky, one of Obama's most influential mentors, begins his treatise "Rules for Radicals," strangely enough, on page three, with a biblical quotation from Job – "The life of man upon earth is a warfare" — and then follows it up on page 29 by advising, "the third rule of the ethics of means and ends is that in war, the end justifies any means."

This is a relativistic restatement of a premise of one of the author's favorite icons, Karl Marx, who, with F. Nietzsche, were his chief tutors. Is it any wonder that 14 states and the FBI are now conducting investigations into major voter registration fraud perpetrated by this radical group, which was the beneficiary of $830,000 from Obama's campaign?

Further connecting the dots brings us back to an ACORN affiliate, Obama's first laboratory for honing his organizational skills with grant funds, which were redirected from educational reform to grassroots mobilization of like-minded radicals committed to revolutionary change and thoroughly brainwashed by Alinsky. Is it difficult then, to see how this Marxist maxim "the end-justifies-any-means" will logically produce thousands of fraudulently secured voter registrations in more than a dozen states by none other than ACORN? Dishonesty will surely lead sub-prime mortgage applicants to misrepresent the facts when seeking a mortgage loan.

To complicate the mix further, add the corruption in the halls of congress. Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., announcing a while ago that the banking system was strong and Sen. Chris Dodd, securing a sweetheart mortgage from Countrywide just prior to its demise, must be held accountable, along with Sen. Obama, for their roles in the most devastating financial debacle in our lifetime.

The class struggle between the "haves" and the "have nots" is featured prominently in "Rules for Radicals." Heroes of the movement included men like Rousseau and Lenin. Genuine contempt for the rule of law is reflected in Rousseau's statement that "law is a very good thing for men with property and a very bad thing for men without property." Lenin's famous April Thesis disclosed his philosophy, which stated, "they have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet." Under this scenario it becomes easy to take from Joe the Plumber and redistribute to Tom, Dick and Harriet.

Obama and ACORN now fight with the ballot. Their end in this warfare justifies any means, including hoodlums intimidating lenders, fraudulent mortgage applications by the thousands, voter fraud in 14 states and the gross distortion of their stated objectives. The "bullets" of change will come later if and when they have achieved a veto proof majority in the Senate, control of the House of Representatives and possibly occupy 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Remember, as it has often been said, "great oaks from little acorns grow." This ACORN has already taken root and its branches are now choking off the integrity of the ballot box. This will surely threaten the sanctity of the life and actual existence of our beloved America.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 06:03 PM

Where do you even FIND this worthless shit? and more importantly, don't you have anything better to do than play with it and smear it all over yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 07:25 PM

JEsus, Sawz, you should be ashamed for fowarding such crap--that's worse than anything I ever put in the Bush thread!! LOL!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 02:21 AM

Ok, as many of you know, I've been reluctant to think either of the two candidates are worth the attention, that they have mustered up. However,
I've been leaving a little window open, to be persuaded by either one, one way or the other. Before McCain was nominated, I actively routed against him, for being a phony, to his stated ideals. I actually routed for Obama to win the nomination, just so Hillary would disappear into one of the lesser footnotes of history. I've stated my position on here, and was very clear about it, and as we all exchanged posts, some people, of both persuasions, shared either their facts, rumors, accusations, talking points, et al, along with their rebuttals, with each other. For a while, I reserved comment about either one, in hopes that, perhaps, there would be some, just some tidbit, that would tip it, one way or the other. Being open, also put me into a position of being very objective, because there have been so many allegations, and outright lies, from both sides,..well, you just can't believe either one, till something solid panned out. Personally, I preferred the lesser candidates, that the 'news' media absolutely fails to cover.

HOWEVER, something happened yesterday, that I thought I'd share, that may, or may not, interest you. It is true, and I have several personal eye witness accounts of it.

Friday, our cabinet maker, decided to go, with his family, to a neighboring town, of Durango, Colorado, to attend a McCain 'rally', on the high school grounds. Today, when he came by the house, to bring some stuff for the kitchen trim.
I asked him how it was.
He said it was 'great', so on and so forth.
Then he added, 'There were a lot of protesters there, too'.
I asked, 'Well, how was that?'
He replied,'They were nasty!'
'Nasty?'
He replied,'Yeah,they were blocking the streets,screaming everything
from the vicious, to the obscene'...and he proceeded to tell me some details about them, including wearing bandannas, and hooded masks over their faces, and in general, just being frenzied punks.

Well, I figured, 'Aw, that's just his perspective, being as he is a McCain supporter, so I didn't give it too much mind, being as both sides punctuate the foibles of the other.

But, today, we had to go to Durango, ourselves to get some building materials at Home Depot, and a couple of other stops. Being curious, I figured I'd ask some of the locals their opinions, either way.

My little survey, included employees, from the stores we went to, a policeman, I button holed to talk to, and some shoppers, contractors,
and various others. Just average people.

With NO EXCEPTIONS they began to tell me pretty much the same story, some expressing embarrassment, fear, disgust, etc,etc. They described it as a frenzy, extremely hostile, dangerous, and one likened it to a mob scene, right out of the news, from the middle east!!! Effigies of Bush and McCain kissing, traffic being blocked and passengers, just passing through being victims of vulgar screams and catcalls.....

'Who were they?' I asked, at every occasion.
"Obama supporters', was the repeated answer.

I found myself thinking about the 'passion' I've seen in the Mudcat Forum, and debated within myself, whether to post anything about this, to you. I've witnessed, on here, some of the most inane, arguments, spins, and denials of well supported facts, and the avoidance of well thought out questions, ..and I've come to the conclusion..Ok, I still don't like McCain, but if this is indicative of Obama supporters, this country is in some serious, serious trouble, the likes we've never seen. Everyone, just step back, take a breath, and without prejudice, or bias...seek the truth, no matter which way the chips fall.

No 'cure remarks' this morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 02:25 AM

..or, cute remarks, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 02:37 AM

If I 'read' you aright, I understand your dismay and anxiety as to what kind of nation we are becoming. I agree that it is unacceptable for either supporters or opponents to behave in such a manner.

One of the things I have been saying among friends is that, whoever wins, we all lose if we don't find some way to heal the divisions amongst us.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 02:43 AM

For once, and wholeheartedly, Ebbie, I agree with you!! I would think as musicians, and people whose expressions come from the inner souls of men, and women, and put it into art, and communicate, from heart to heart, mind to mind...that the healing could, and would start with us, and spread across our nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 04:19 AM

Read this last of these, and the shock doctrine one of Carolc's. then take a look around!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: TIA
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:24 PM

Of course, I wasn't there, and I am unlikely to take anyone's word for anything. While seeking multiple accounts, the only video I could find was this.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/videos/detail/tensions-flare-outside-mccains-rally/

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:26 PM

GfS:

The picture you describe is unsettling and saddening.

However, if it is of any comfort, I know lots of Obama supporters, NONE of whom would ever resort to the general kind of demonstrative melodrama you are describing.

While I can appreciate people getting angry after having been fed too many lies, or manipulated too often, I don't think the set of people who are Obama supporters is in any way identical to those who resort to public dramatization of anger and hatred, and in fact I would have expected it (from the degree of mindless hatred I have seen on blogs) to be the opposite--that is, the "public anger" set would have a higher proportion of members from the right.

Another possibility is that this is one of those too-clever maneuvers whereby a group gets framed by others posing as them, and doing extreme things.   It's been known to happen in trying times, and this race is certainly such a time.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 04:02 PM

Thank you, Ebbie, Amos, and TIA.

The repeated accounts I got, yesterday, all seem to bear out. When I think of all the things that I've seen, read, and heard about this 'election', I'm left with this thought, of which none of the participants seem to even consider. It is the only way out of this mess of intentional divisions that have been perpetrated on us all. It is the only way to give one shelter from the impending clash, about to face this country, so, of course, a 'pre-planned solution' that they have waiting for us. Anyway, it all boils down to this; you are either doing it or not!....and that is........

..."Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you!"-Jesus of Nazereth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 04:08 PM

Sorry and all that, but it is getting close to the time for the Molotov cocktail to resume its intended purpose of destroying partriarchal oppression.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 04:20 PM

I suppose there was a point??

If there was any need to 'destroy patriarchal oppression'..I'm sure your children have more than enough reason!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:26 PM

So are we to understand that the video TIA in the Rocky Mountain Video was drastically censored to make the Obama supporters look totally unthreatening and the whole thing fairly low key? Because that was how it appeared from that clip.

All looked a lot less unpleasant than the stuff in the first minute of this video from a previous occasion, a few weeks ago. (After the first minute it turns into a slide show about Obama, to accompany Dolores Keane singing Let it Be.)

No doubt about it, partisan politics can be remarkably ugly at times. Anyone involved in this kind of situation needs to step back and look at what they are doing and saying, to check they aren't stepping over the line. And that goes for us on threads here as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:32 PM

So are we to understand that the Rocky Mountain News video TIA linked us was drastically censored to make the Obama supporters look totally unthreatening and the whole thing fairly low key? Because that was how it appeared from that clip.

All looked a lot less unpleasant than the stuff in the first minute of this video from a previous occasion, a few weeks ago. (After the first minute it turns into a slide show about Obama, to accompany Dolores Keane singing Let it Be.)

No doubt about it, partisan politics can be remarkably ugly at times. Anyone involved in this kind of situation needs to step back and look at what they are doing and saying, to check they aren't stepping over the line. And that goes for us on threads here as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:53 PM

I couldn't view the previously linked video of a McCain rally, but I looked around and this is the kind of thing I found. Looks like it's the McCain supporters who are being obnoxious in this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSHsM9OzHGE

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:00 PM

And I found these...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDys9SbVF7k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOjKrFJxu28

A little street theater...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr4MCuvYXIk

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:07 PM

More McCain supporters...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vagD-4AH4Vc

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:43 PM

Is McCain employing a lot of these idiots polluting the net?

If Obama was any of the things you suggest the FBI or the CIA would come right out and say it, and he would never have got to where he is.

Meanwhile if you feel you have all this concrete proof of the man's traitorous intentions - shouldn't you be presenting it to the relevant authorities?

Isn't a more persuasive interpretation of the facts that you are a dumb little racist/conspiracy theory nut? Either that or you fit into the McCain victory strategy as cosily as moose taking, stun guns, and taking no responsibility for the financial shit that America is in?

Could you disprove my overwhelming suspicions?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:52 PM

Hey! Ya talkin' to me? Ya talkin' to me?

lol

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:47 PM

Below, is the headline, I copied and pasted. If you can't get the video, its not that big of a deal. It didn't show much of what I was talking about...mostly some interviews, and a little tension, and harassing on the line. The main stuff was in the street.
By the way, in case you haven't seen the cartoon, or not, 'Tweedy Bird' is yellow.
I'm telling you how it was. As for CarolC. (oh Carol...),Either or both sides behaving in this manner is wrong, and only increases the tension, that I'm sure the string pullers love to see. Let's not give them that satisfaction!

Tensions flare up outside McCain's rally

McCain and Obama supporters clash outside of McCain's rally at the National Western Arena.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:53 PM

GFS-

And what did your plumber have to say, and was he or she licensed to practice?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:05 PM

I'd just like to see some documentation for Obama supporters behaving as described. So far, I haven't been able to find any, only documentation of McCain supporters behaving badly. Considering all of the really vicious lies that have been told about both Obama and his supporters, I think my skepticism is quite reasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:46 PM

From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:53 PM

GFS-

And what did your plumber have to say, and was he or she licensed to practice?

Our electrician, was in the very same position. What I posted is accurate. He worked for a licensed electrician, but the boss,(owner) had to check everything, before he put his name to it, so it could be inspected by the county, and approved. Certain trades have to do that(more, in different states).

CarolC, It has been on both sides, and yet, though this is well known, neither of the candidates seem to address their supporters, either at all, or very effectively...Shame on them!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:54 PM

So far, I have not seen the kind of aggression being directed at McCain supporters by Obama supporters that I've seen being directed at Obama supporters by McCain supporters (in quite a few videos). Even in that video from Colorado, the only aggressive behavior in that video is being directed at Obama supporters by McCain supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 11:29 PM

"....that video from Colorado, the only aggressive behavior in that video....."

Repeatedly, I was told, that it was quite the opposite....by numerous eye witnesses, who supported either or no candidate. Too bad the media, shot only what it shot..I was just as curious, myself!

Don't you just love to watch Americans dividing themselves with such hostility?? Don't you just love to watch our nation being torn apart, as a result of corrupt politicians??,,Great entertainment! This 'election' is about the sickest, deplorable, deceptive, dirty, 'election' I've seen in my life!!

Maybe, Michelle Obama can be '..proud of America..', now!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 11:40 PM

Most of the videos of aggression by McCain supporters are not from the media. I'm going to reserve judgment on that one until I see some evidence to support it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 11:49 PM

You, being a Kucinich supporter, I would think so! He thought not too well of his opponent Obama, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 11:55 PM

This from the Durango Herald : John McCain's Durango rally peaceful ... La Plata County Republican Party Chairman Ron Tate said local organizers were prepared for the worst in the event divergent political views escalated into something more, but he was pleasantly surprised. "It was just a great day," Tate said. ... "[Republican volunteer Sherri] Rochford said New York Times photographer Stephen Crowley told her Durango was the most beautiful stop he's seen in months on the campaign trail. He also said the number of Obama supporters was the most he's seen at any McCain event. He even commented about the civility shown by supporters and opposition toward each other. "We can be proud of our town. The citizens of Durango and the surrounding communities behaved well and showed their support, and that's what we're supposed to do," Rochford said.

I guess opinions differ, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 01:22 AM

art, ..now that is completely different, from what I heard, and the headline, in the same 'Durango Herald', that ran yesterday. I guess the head of the Republican Chairman, Ron Tate, is trying to paint a smooth, peaceful image. Oh well, I guess you're believing the Republicans now. Might as well, believe the rest of what they are saying, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 01:35 AM

I think my words have been twisted a bit. I'm saying that I won't believe the stories about Obama supporters behaving aggressively toward McCain supporters until I see some evidence of it. Such evidence doesn't need to come from the media. There's plenty of evidence of aggressive behavior by McCain supporters that doesn't come from the media, so we know that if Obama supporters were really behaving in such an aggressive manner, the evidence of it can be had, even if the media doesn't provide it.

Personally, I think people are just making stuff up to try to make Obama look bad (as they have been doing all along).

To the extent that I have any problems with Obama, they are problems with his policies. As far as I'm concerned, the way the McCain campaign is focusing on lies they're making up about Obama that have nothing whatever to do with his policies, demonstrates how utterly bankrupt both McCain and his campaign are when it comes to the things that matter the most to me, like any kind of coherent, meaningful, and constructive platform, and integrity and character. If McCain had anything other than more of what GW Bush gave us to offer, he wouldn't need to resort to the kinds of slimy smears and lies he and his campaign been lobbing about for months.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 01:44 AM

(My guess is that no one will provide any source for Obama making such a pledge.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 01:44 AM

Oops. Wrong thread again.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 02:57 AM

You're right, Carol, I had to read your post several times to understand how you meant it..but I got it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 10:42 AM

I've been trying to find news accounts corroborating GfS's reportage but I have not found anything that does so.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/DN-macrallies_26pol.State.Edition1.e7c70d.html

News account of McCain rally in Durango. Mentions "hundreds of Mr. Obama supporters" but says nothing about any aggressive behavior

Not a word about it here either: "Durango is nestled in the mountains of southwest Colorado and has a population of about 15,000. As McCain's motorcade rolled through town on the way to the high school, he was greeted by hundreds of Obama supporters lining the streets.
"Inside the event, held on the football field, there were roughly an equal number of McCain supporters as there had been Obama supporters — at least when you subtracted the scads of non-voting-age high school students that had come to check out the rally.

"UPDATE: McCain senior adviser Mark Salter vehemently disagreed with the assertion that there were as many protesters outside as voting-age McCain supporters inside. Salter cited the U.S. Secret Service as his source for a crowd count inside and out — saying there were several thousand of all ages inside and only several hundred outside.
"Washington Wire always asks law enforcement officials on site at events for an independent crowd count. On Friday in Durango, Washington Wire asked for both a count of inside and out but was told nobody was keeping track because it was an outdoor venue."
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/24/graham-draws-laughs-at-mccain-rally/

Or here either:
"Several hundred protesters lined the route of John McCain's motorcade as he rolled in to Durango, Colorado for a rally in the small city (population 15,500) in the southwest corner of the state.

"The protest—one of the largest the campaign has seen—was loud and lively, and featured signs reading "F*** the Maverick" and "Joe the Plumber Is A Fraud."

"It wasn't clear how many people were at the rally other than the many students from the local high school.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/Signs_and_shtick_in_Durango.html

Or here:
"He compared it to McCain's recent trip in Durango. Though the town is in a blue county that voted for Democrat John Kerry in 2004, the rally on a high school football field drew more than 6,000 people.

"We went there, drew a line in the sand, and it was great," Kise said. "That's a testament to the fact it's going to be a competitive race."

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/oct/27/100000-plus-jam-civic-center-to-back-candidate/


Conclusion:

Either GfS's surveying skills are seriously lacking or s/he/it knows a lot of marginal people.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 04:39 PM

Not at all!..I talked to the people who saw it, and their accounts all corroborated, with each other.....otherwise, I wouldn't have posted what I learned. Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I personally think this is a mere charade of an election. Whomever wins, its not the American people, nor any upholding of our Constitution!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 04:47 PM

If anyone has been watching Sarah Palin rallies on TV it's obvious that they are anything
but peaceful when members of the audience are yelling destructive epithets and McCain and Palin do nothing to cool them down.

Obama's rallies however are contrasted by the fact that he discourages booing, "we don't need that" and exhorts his followers to "vote instead".

The one exception was McCain taking the mic away from the woman who claimed
Obama was "an Arab" and he following up with "No, he's a family man and a decent person". From this we can infer that McCain doesn't believe an Arab is capable of being either.It's this level of racism that permeates the McCain/Palin rallies.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 05:08 PM

These days you aren't dependent on what people say happened. There are cellphones and digital cameras to show what actually happened.

So where are the video clips showing this kind of thing from Obama supporters :"They described it as a frenzy, extremely hostile, dangerous, and one likened it to a mob scene, right out of the news, from the middle east!!!"?

Plenty of stuff showing McCain supporters saying stuff like the ones in the link I posted earlier from Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, and other places. But there doesn't seem to be much if any video evidence of Obama supporters going overboard.

I'd not be the least surprised if such evidence does exist - clearly tempers are high in this election, and there are nuts and nasties in every movement. But if so, where is it?

If it were a question of the professional media, you could say there's maybe some kind of "liberal censorship" going on. But with the kind of technology I mentioned, and the Internet, media censorship doesn't really work too well any more.