BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?

Subject: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 12:44 PM

Have just got home (phew!) after driving quite a long way alone. I was tailgated for much of this distance by a large 4X4 driven by a young lass. I was already doing the limit of 60mph on a single carriageway, but she was nearly touching my rear bumper. I was very frightened, as at that speed she'd surely have hit me had I braked for any reason. Any hints or tips from drivers here on the best way to deal with this menace? I still feel quite shaken; it was so aggressive, and I was keeping up the correct speed all the way, not dawdling along at all.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 12:51 PM

Gradually slow down and pull in, let the bugger pass you, take the registration and report to local police. The driver may have been reported before, and if not will go on record as having been reported.

I always have my camera on the passenger seat.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 12:52 PM

How about, pulling over somewhere and let them pass, versus continuing with the annoyance?

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 12:53 PM

Good advice from Bonzo.

If I'm tailgated, I just get slower and slower and slower until they get the message. If they can't overtake, tough.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 01:16 PM

Yep, my tactic too.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 01:17 PM

I have on occasion turned on my 'hazard' warning blinkers. This, along with gentle taps on the brake, will 'usually' get the point across. If not, finding another lane and slowing to get them in front of me is the best answer.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 01:22 PM

I did consider pulling over, but there didn't seem to be many suitable stopping places. I'd much rather she had overtaken me and disappeared into the distance! I've been driving for over fifty years, all over Britain, without (touch wood) ever having had any sort of accident. I also keep up my speed to the correct limit so as not to delay people behind me. It's a good tip to take the number and report it, as she could be doing this to everyone and cause an accident. We get a lot of elderly drivers who only ever do forty mph, but I'd never do that to them, it's IMO terribly dangerous. Time for a nice cup of tea and some crumpets. Plus, my old friend I'd been visiting had made me a ginger cake to take away, so a slice of that will calm me down no end!
Thank you all for your advice!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: frogprince
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 01:23 PM

I've had one particular instance of tailgating that stands out for me. I was on my way to work, before dawn, on a rural stretch of highway. It was four lane (two each way), but with frequent hills and curves, and in deer country. A heavy pickup pulled up tight behind, with his headlights glaring into my car. I slowed; he stayed right on my bumper. I switched lanes. He switched after me. Perhaps I should have pulled to the shoulder and stopped, but I was getting flat scared. If I accelerated to 75 mph, much to fast for the conditions, he would stay back at a reasonable distance. I was hoping dearly that there would be a patrolman along the way, but none appeared. He followed until I came to my turn-off point, and went on. It took a bit for my hair to settle back down.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 01:23 PM

The rule of thumb is "one car–length for every 10 mph"—so if the vehicle behind you is one car-length back, you shouldn't exceed 10 mph.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 01:24 PM

Annoying a tailgater could present a danger, as incidents of road rage are on the rise in some locations.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 01:40 PM

Good advice, Bonzo. Get out of the way; a report to the police could prevent a future accident. It pays to be meek in such situations.

A method I definitely do not advise is dealing with the nut. One case reported here, on a multi-lane, the guy was flashing lights and tail-gating. When it was safe, the "victim" changed lanes, then the nut pulled in front and applied brakes- the "victim" was not quick enough with his brakes, and clipped the nut, throwing his car sideways across lanes and into a roll. Could have been deadly not only for the nut, but for others as well. Unfortunately, the nut lived.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 01:41 PM

Advice from the police and advance driving institute is to slow down so you will not be in the situation where you have to brake suddenly causing the tailgater to hit you.

Aside from that you could always carry a rear-facing missile launcher...

An old Lada I had used to have a reversing spot light on a manual switch. That worked wonders for tailgaters when I switched it on.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 01:42 PM

Yes, Ed, this was in my mind. I didn't want to provoke worse behaviour from her by slowing down etc. She may have even rammed me! I should really have turned off the main road into one of the villages, waited a couple of minutes then retraced my way to the road again. I couldn't have changed lanes as it's a single carriageway. My husband is quite concerned, but the crumpets and cake have taken away the shakes! He's had a bit of ginger cake too, while he watches the football. I'll try to forget the incident.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 01:46 PM

By the way, it was an enormous 4X4, and the lass was smoking a cigarette. She had lots of face-piercings (you can see how close she was!) It does make one prejudiced against the 'type', which I always try to avoid. (I'm wondering now what was in the ciggie??)

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 03:00 PM

i) Make sure you have more speed available to you than the tailgater
2) Lightly apply the hand brake which will make your brake lights go on
3) Simultaneously accelerate and wave bye-bye

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 03:09 PM

Playing games with the brake lights is always tempting (mea culpa) but is very dangerous as evasive action by the tailgater could cause him to collide with another innocent motorist.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 03:43 PM

The passive-aggressive stuff is fun to think about it, but you're risking something by actually doing it.

I had a boss once who had a rainbow-black primer 69 Camaro, who would let a tailgater go just so far and slam on the brakes. She figured she was ready for the impact and could use the resultant funds to get stuff fixed on the car. I stop short sometimes, but never with other people in the car or close by in other cars. Sometimes it becomes a matter of "the closer you get, the slower I go". Sometimes they figure it out an back off, and sometimes they just keep riding your ass. Still, it's less dangerous if they hit you going really slowly than if you're up to speed.

Keep in mind that you're not crazy, but you don't know about the "other guy". In the US, sometimes these people have guns, but 100% of other drivers have cars, which cause more deaths than guns.

The most intelligent, safest thing to do is to pull over when you can and just let them drive on to find someone else to piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 04:00 PM

I remember some years past when driving an articulated truck that a car driver, annoyed with me, pulled around me and braked hard , which of course meant that I had to do the same. I am sure he was very pleased with himself as he accelerated off, knowing that it takes a while to get a heavy goods up to speed again.
I don't suppose he would have been so pleased if I had not braked in time!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 04:01 PM

"2) Lightly apply the hand brake which will make your brake lights go on"

Nonsense.

The brake lights are operated by the brake pedal, not the hand-brake. At least that's the case in Europe and the UK (which is where Eliza lives). Might be different in the US, but I'd be astonished if that's the case.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,BobL
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 04:11 PM

For the car customizer a number of options spring to mind:

1) Remotely operated spray can of WD40 on back of car at about windscreen height,
2) ditto expanding foam at radiator grille height,
3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heIQSnokZ8s

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 04:29 PM

I don't think the hand brakenmakes the brake light come one. If I go outside and start my car, then apply the hand brake and leave it parked, the brake light doesn't come on. What happens is that when I drive off, I get a "stupid-driver" light and something starts smelling bad. I used to use the hand brake to slow down and surprise tailgaters. This isn't good if you don't want to risk being hit.

Oh, I almost forgot: it's not as much fun as WD-40, but requires less tech. Windshield washers. It helps if the squirters over-shoot a little. If it's rained recently, drive through all the puddles you can.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 04:49 PM

'"2) Lightly apply the hand brake which will make your brake lights go on"

Nonsense.'

You're absolutely right, it WAS the floor brake I tapped ever so slightly.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 04:56 PM

People with Ladas (older or newer) likely have many cars behind them, and speeding away is not an option:) 

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 04:59 PM

I recall the 51-hp Chevette, that used to be at the front of every highway line-up during busy holiday week ends.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 05:03 PM

My car's a very old Fiesta with over 100,000 miles on the clock, but it does have excellent acceleration. However, I was already doing the speed limit and would never, ever exceed that. I actually passed through two static permanent speed cameras with her on my tail, so I probably saved her an automatic fine through the post! She eventually turned off (phew!) down a side road to a village several miles from mine, and they're welcome to her. A silly and dangerous girl.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 05:17 PM

If you have rear fog lights they can be mistaken for brake lights when switched on and off.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 05:24 PM

One afternoon in the early 1970s, while driving home from work (twenty-five miles on the freeway from where I worked near Everett to Seattle), as I was accelerating down the on-ramp to the freeway, a burly guy in a red Pontiac Firebird (muscle car—I was driving a Toyota Corona, not a muscle car) was about three feet off my rear bumper. I wanted to get out of this guy's way, and since I was going to be on the freeway for some miles, I checked to my left, saw no cars for several hundred feet, and cut diagonally toward the left (express) lane. When I got to the express lane, to my horror, I see this moron passing me on MY left—on the shoulder of the road. And he shot me a dirty look.

He was driving a hot car, and he wasn't going to have some stinkin' little Toyota beating him to the fast lane!

I held a steady 70 mph, the legal speed on this highway at the time, and maintained the correct distance from other cars. In the meantime, I watched this dude's progress.

If he had a clear stretch of the road, he accelerated, exceeding the speed limit, until he wound up tailgating someone. When he got the chance he would shoot around then and go to warp speed until he was tailgating someone else. He was a messy accident looking for a place to happen.

Over the twenty-five miles, he was never more than two block's distance ahead of me.

And the cute part was that he headed for the same off-ramp that I normally take.

There was a stop light at the end of the off-ramp.   Several cars were taking that same exit, and for all his risky, dangerous driving, he was only two cars ahead of me at the light!

========

I've had this situation a number of times. I'm on a freeway approaching the off-ramp I want to take and I'm moving to the right in preparation. But there is some guy in the right-hand lane I want to move to hanging right off my right rear quarter-panel, much too close. I speed up, he speeds up. I slow down, he slows down.

So I turn on my right turn signal and suddenly speed up. Then HE floors it to get ahead of me. Damned dangerous thing for him to do, if I were to actually change lanes right then, But I let him, then quickly move in behind him and take the off-ramp I want.

I just want to get him the hell out of my way!

Not speed and aggression. Tactics!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 05:30 PM

People with Ladas (older or newer) likely have many cars behind them, and speeding away is not an option:)

You have obviously never had a 1600 with twin Webber carbs, Ed. I have. 0-60 in less than 9 seconds. Used to really piss the boy racers in their Peugeot 205's off :-)

I suppose you think that Skoda are a laugh as well? Even though their pre-Volkwagon versions won the under 1300 class of the RAC rally 17 years running?

Sorry, but I really do get cheesed off with stereotyping. At least I suppose doing it to a car does no harm but it is a lazy shot and one that anyone with more than half a brain can do without.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 05:35 PM

Just glad you made it home, Eliza. I think we share the same approach - simply put, how do I keep safe in this circumstance? You were wise, imho, to not play games or try to teach the tailgater a lesson.

Experienced a similar situation to that Frogprince related early in the thread, though even a bit more menacing. Dark, 2 lane highway in the country late at night. The guy was flashing his lights at me and occasionally pulling into the opposing lane and pacing me. Definitely trying to intimidate at best, and meaning harm at worst. To the best of my knowledge I had not driven in any way to provoke road rage - he had started following me in town though I didn't realize that until we got out of town a little ways. Was so close behind me when he was behind me that I could not even safely slow down and pull over or turn down another road without fear of being rear-ended (and then possibly assaulted.) Finally, at one of the times he was in the wrong lane beside me, I was able to make a turn onto a side road that he could not anticipate. Pulled into the driveway of the first house I came to with lights, and called the police.

Was even more frightening than the one time I was robbed at gunpoint on a sidewalk on a city street.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Guy Behindju
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 05:39 PM

Question 2 in the quiz:
What do you do about someone who drives at 20mph down a country road and there's a dozen or so cars backed up behind it?

I don't like tailgaters either but if you are being tailgated, have a look in your mirror and see if it's you that's the problem for driving ultra slow.

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 05:40 PM

Not only did I not own one of those DTG, I never saw one on the highways where I live. We just mostly had the annoying slow ("boxy") stereotype ones on the local highways for a very few years. Glad you enjoyed yours (though not persuaded to be envious).

I dont know much about the Skodas, they were never too popular in my local, not suited for our salty and colder winters, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 06:10 PM

Get TWO of something like this- they aren't phenomenally expensive compared with a court case- and have one facing forwards and one backwards. Make them conspicuous- the idea is to prevent or at least deter bad behaviour, not gather evidence (though they do). If the rear facing one isn't obvious enough, attach a flashing LED to it.

And if anyone still misbehaves, post the footage on a public forum.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 06:15 PM

I used to know a guy who had a switch on his dash to turn his brake lights on & off.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 06:21 PM

Guest Guybehindju, I quite agree that slow drivers can be very frustrating. I never hassle them however, just overtake correctly when safe to do so. As for myself, I always drive up to speed (but never over the limit) if the road conditions permit (visibility, icy surface etc mean one should reduce speed a little) I'm quite a positive, confident and safe driver (if I say so myself!) but like Janie, when alone in the car I'm always thinking how to keep myself safe. There are some strange people out there, and one tries to avoid Big Trouble. This lass had a very scary expression on her face. She could have overtaken me in several places, but didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 06:25 PM

Plenty of affordable front and rear window mounted mini digital cam-recorder kits available these days.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 06:29 PM

That reversing spot I mentioned had a dash mounted switch, Jeri. Like I said - Great to shine on tailgaters :-)

Ed - You don't know what you missed!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 06:37 PM

Eliza, you made abundantly clear that you were driving the speed limit. Guy Behindju apparently doesn't read first. Hope that is not a reflection of how he drives.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Guy Behindju
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 07:03 PM

Janie, I (Guy Behindju) always endeavour to drive within legal limits. The problem I have is with people who drive excessively OVER and UNDER the given speed limits. This was the point I was trying to make i.e. slow drivers cause just as much chaos on the roads as the fast ones.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 07:31 PM

Good on you, Guy Behindju. Eliza made clear she does also.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 07:45 PM

The main problem I have around here is people who drive fairly normally on the straight bits then slow down really excessively on corners, accelerating away again so as to be impossible to pass safely/legally on the straights but slowing again to a real crawl into bends. I don't tailgate them or get aggressive, but it can be quite frustrating sometimes. I can undertand it (and do it myself) in areas where sight-lines are bad and there may be pedestrians, horses or wildlife concealed by a corner, but when sight-lines are good I find it a bit of an odd way for someone to drive.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 08:09 PM

I like to refer to drivers who follow the "Massachusetts Rule":

"You may drive at any speed you wish, EXCEPT within the range from ten MPH below the posted limit to ten MPH above it."

Problem is, Mass. drivers come to Vermont...

P.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 08:33 PM

I agree, Gbj. In some ways and at some times, slow drivers are even more of a hazard. Bad drivers are a fact of life. All good reasons to drive defensively.

Should confess that in my early 60's I am increasingly plagued by night blindness. Not a big problem on freeways because there are not approaching headlights directly in my line of vision. I fortunately changed jobs several months ago that mean I no longer have to drive 40 miles of 2 lane country road, infested by crossing deer on dry nights, and on which I was literally rendered blind by approaching headlights on rainy winter nights when it was dark by the time I left work at 6:00pm. Was wondering if I might have to resign simply from inability to safely drive come this next winter as I was well aware the night blindness was getting worse and worse. Although those were not heavily traveled 40 miles they were not lightly traveled either, and it was always a challenge to figure out, when traffic began to back up behind me, if and where I might be able to pull over to let cars pass. Has made me a bit more compassionate when I get behind an obviously elder driver who really can't safely drive the speed limit any more, even on dry rural roads in daylight. Easy to say they shouldn't drive. But also know that many in rural areas don't have alternatives to get around to the limited extent it is essential they do.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 08:45 PM

Know what you mean, Rob. I still drive that 40 miles once a week for the private practice I expanded to that locale after the clinic closed. (Fortunately I now control those hours and don't have to drive it at night now.) It's really irritating to be behind some one who speeds up to a reasonable speed only in the passing zones. I finally decided it is simply unconscious on their part, take a deep breath, and try to let rational mind be in charge of me when I am behind the wheel. Also helped that about a year ago I acquired my first car that doesn't need a long, running start to get up to passing speed, and if the passing zone is clear, is now enough length for me to safely pass in the few passing zones along that route.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: meself
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 08:48 PM

All my life, I've heard people expounding on the great danger posed by slow drivers. Funny though, in all the reports of accidents that I've heard or read, I've never encountered the phrase "lack of speed was a factor ... "

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 09:02 PM

Several things. First, and let me make this clear, tailgating is stupid and dangerous.

But.

Our roads are very crowded. Life can be fairly frenetic at times and there are people, rightly or wrongly, who need to get on, and fast. If you are driving at well below the speed limit for the road you're on, and the road is busy, you are in serious danger of being a twat. If there is a convoy of traffic behind you which had been behind you for a mile or more, and you are driving at less than the speed limit for that road, you are definitely a complete twat. Humanity is what it is, whether you like it or not. You are causing exactly the kind of frustration that could lead to a serious accident. It wouldn't be your fault, of course, humanity being what it is, but the naked fact is that the accident might well not have happened had you bloody well got out of the way. Wives may not have been widowed and children might not have been orphaned. Quite a thought, as you're sitting there doing 39 on a 60 road feeling all sanctimonious with a massive queue behind you. Pull over, fer chrissake, if you're a member of the Sunday velvet steering wheel club, and let us pass. Some of us can drive a bit faster than you, and yes, we left home two minutes later than we should have. But that's what being a human being is all about. Basically, eliminate your stress completely by getting out of the bloody way. Using your mirror once in a blue moon, and cutting the yap whilst driving, might help. Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 09:19 PM

The main hazard created by ridiculously slow drivers is the impatient people they piss off and what those people do because they can't control themselves or their car. Slow drivers are annoying, that's all, and yes, I've done stupid things because they irritated me. I really try not to be an idiot these days, because there are just so many opportunities that don't allow me a choice.

Using what other people do as an excuse for tailgating doesn't make sense. How is driving close enough to their car so you can't control it in an emergency EVER a good idea? If you say you're trying to give them a clue they should speed up, if they don't comply with your wishes in a couple minutes, maybe you should give up. All you're doing is reducing your ability to control your car.

Another thing is that if you hit somebody in front of you, legally (in all cases I can think of), you're the one who's going to be found to be at fault.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 10:10 PM

Does any tailgater seriously believe it helps them economise on fuel
by slipstreaming so close behind...???

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 11:17 PM

Dave, how did you ever end up owning a Lada? I didn't think those things were ever sold outside the Warsaw Pact. Are they seen very often in the U.K.? How about East German Trabants?
I knew about Trabants when I lived in West Berlin, but never saw one until I visited Prague a few years ago. And I've seen Ladas only in museums.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 11:51 PM

My favorite tailgating story involved a friend driving to Chicago on the expressway. Someone in a low slung sports car started tailgating him. He changed lanes, and the other person did to keep tailgating. He was driving along and saw that he was about to run over a muffler that had dropped in the fast lane. He swerved to avoid it and the other car didn't have time and went right over it, probably ruining his suspension.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 01:50 AM

They were very popular in the UK during the 1980s, Joe. And, unlike Eds view, they were a good car provided you didn't mind the 1960s technology!

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 03:37 AM

You should have been cited.



Even if going the speed limit law enforcement had every right to pull you over for speeds so low they are dangerous or impede the normal and reasonable flow of traffic.

It is old people like you that are a hazard and should have their privilege to drive revoked. I hope she noted your number and turned it over to the police. A few more notices and perhaps we can get you off the streets.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 04:01 AM

There was a dwarf, driving a "smart car" ...   you know the type that could almost be an oversized roller skate.

He was rear ended, at a stoplight, by an oversized 4x4 with wheels that cost more than his whole vehicle.

He got out of his car. Walked over to the other vehicle and put his hands on his hips.and
looked up at the driver and saying, "You know, I'm not happy!"

The other driver looked down and said, "Well, which one are you?"

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

You might want to consider an anger management class, or meditation, or a good church. You appear to have "issues" that may be a danger others.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 04:03 AM

LOL Guest!!
Our roads here in Norfolk are lovely (to me). Most are only single carriageways, and with the exception of Norwich, have very little traffic on them. We don't have even a smidgeon of a motorway. The main A road which bypasses our village for example is nearly always empty, and one never has to wait to join it. But as with all rural roads, one has to expect the unexpected. There are loads of farm vehicles of all types trundling along, but the tractor men are very good and pull over regularly into lay-bys to let the other motorists pass. One can encounter horses, and lots of pedal bikes. At night, the deer, foxes, badgers and hares throng the place, you can hardly move for them. As in anything else, one only needs a bit of my old mate Common Sense.
My old dad used to say that one drives according to one's personality., and aggression, impatience etc will out. This woman obviously had 'issues' which made her a dangerous and bad driver.
Thank you everyone for your advice and comments. Another time (hope not!) I'll be even more defensive and turn off safely out of the way. People like that are better miles in front of one than right up one's bum!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 04:50 AM

BTW - For those concerned with people traveling too slow I must point out that the speed limit is a maximum, not a minimum or compulsory speed. There are laws which govern obstructing the flow of traffic which cover the situations where someone is causing a serious obstruction.

Oh, and Steve, If I have my grandchildren in the car I feel much happier doing 40 on rural roads. If someone wants to pass me, fine, they are welcome to. I will assist in SAFE way possible. I usually catch them up again when they come up to the next lorry, bus or tractor anyway.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 05:04 AM

'Dave, how did you ever end up owning a Lada? I didn't think those things were ever sold outside the Warsaw Pact. Are they seen very often in the U.K.? How about East German Trabants?'

Ladas were exported to most European countries during the eighties and they were popular because they were cheap. They held the market segment Dacia is now occupying. You'd get a new one for a price below that of a decent second hand car of another make.

A neighbour here in Ireland bought one every few years and drove it until it fell to bits, at one point there were three or four of them sitting outside the house, rusting away. The man, an old farmer, drove them into town to do his shopping and to socialise at the weekend. One night he was stopped by the guards, 'have you had anything to drink, sir?' 'I had four whiskeys guard' 'do you think you can drive this way?' 'well I have been doing this every saturday for twenty years, guard'. They let him go on home without a fine.

I remember Trabants from the sixties, they too were relatively popular as a cheap car. A neighbour at the time (around 1965, at a guess), not in Ireland, had one.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 05:15 AM

I ran a Lada for a year or two back then. Remember it as a perfectly reliable, unexciting car which got me where I wanted to go. That's all I ever want of a car. I'm not any sort of 'exciting' driver. I have been running the same 1997 Vauxhall Astra automatic, which I got 2nd-hand when it was a couple of years old, for 15 years now.

But I don't tailgate; nor [touch wood!] has anyone ever tailgated me so far as I recall.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 06:43 AM

But how to deal with tailgating?
Weld an RSJ to the chassis and brake hard?
Fit a flamethrower?
Caltrops?
EMP his computer?

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 06:51 AM

worst cars 


I dont believe Ladas were imported into the USA. Only a few models (I believe three) made it to Canada for a few years in the 70s, mostly the early low horsepower models. Because of poor quality and design issues andpremature rusting at that time, the cars popularity and reputation was low and remain low. In fact, the name in Canada is often associated with very poor quality autos...see link.

One of the main models, the signet, was rear wheel drive..they generally perform poorly in winter snow conditions.

I recall, on Canada east coast, many used ladas were scooped up from wrecking yards by visiting Cuban fishermen in port, and taken back home on their ships for spare parts. When visiting Cuba, quite a few still can be seen on the roads, from the Russian co-operation era. However, they seem to be in poorer shape than the 50s era north amerian vehicles still in daily use.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 09:18 AM

I fantasise about being a plainclothes copper in an unmarked car. Imagine the satisfaction if one could press a button to turn on the hidden blue flashing lights and a nice loud siren, pull over the cretin and ask politely, "Is this your vehicle, madam?" Sheer joy!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 09:31 AM

get a dashcam. Mine cost 16 GBP but there is one at about 45 that has two cameras in one device, one pointing forwards and one points backwards to the rear window. Then Put a sticker in the back window saying something like "the video of you breaking the law is now on the internet. The police can view it any time"
Sort of "if you can read this - you are too close" with a bit more byte (sic).

My fantasy is to devise a peashooter type tube that will fire stink bombs at the guy's radiator and air vents. & don't think I won't make one!

PS I have only had one useful video clip from it, and not an accident. Just a load of fire engines near the canal that tells a story. I video canal restoration.
PPS it does make you observe the speed limits a lot more closely.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 09:49 AM

I'm a cyclist, never owned a car or driving license, so don't keep up with auto technology..

But I'd think it common sense that all new cars be required to be factory fitted
with front/rear impact resistant mini digital cam recorders
like the after sales kits I mentioned earlier..

[even side cams so all angles are covered ?]

The cams would be auto activated on ignition, and the flash memory cards
auto erasing previously recorded earlier footage, keeping adequate memory capacity constantly available
so that the vital minutes before & after any incident are always preserved.

Same as Cyclist helmet and handlebar cams are becoming increasingly popular and essential.

for instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECs8ZrmH8D8

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Stu
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 12:34 PM

We live near a posh village that has plenty of huge 4x4s. We were driving home one night down the A-road when a 4x4 came into my rear view mirror and tailgated me for about three miles. I was scared witless and was sure we would crash but there was nowhere to stop or pass. Eventually we reached the village centre where there roads met at a mini roundabout. As I slowed the dickhead behind pulled out onto the wrong side of the road, went past the bollards separating the lanes, around the roundabout the wrong way, past other bollards on the wrong side of the road and accelerated up the road.

Then . . . the village lit up with blue flashing lights and lo and behold a plain clots copper screamed off after him. When we passed the guy, pulled up buy the police we cheered out the window.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,p
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 02:23 PM

my dad ran a lada for years quite happily, so I bought a new one and it rusted in no time at all!.
luck of the draw ,I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 02:30 PM

I have towbars on my Volvos. A light touch of the brakes, just to turn the lights on, not cause retardation, usually gets the point across except to giant 4*4s. 4*4s are fun offroad but WHY do people need them for the swamps of Waitrose carpark?

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 02:42 PM

The only time I got really worried by a tailgater was in Scotland, on one of those narrow windy roads with occasional laybys. We were in a rather small rental car and a Rolls got on our tail and the driver acted like he was going to push us off the road. Got to a layby and were able to pull off. We had to stay there a while to recover.

I am a pretty fast driver, and used to mountain roads in the Rockies, but this guy scared us.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 02:57 PM

Anyone care to add anything from a 'tailgaters' point of view - why ???

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Stu
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 03:04 PM

"4*4s are fun off road"

Well, since using them in the field in the USA it struck me most people with 4x4s in the UK don't even understand what their vehicles are actually for; not many drive miles over rough country or unpaved roads to et to distant sites. Unless you're a farmer, site worker or whatever you don't need one in the UK and they shouldn't be allowed off road except in provided areas, end of. They've been actively destroying a 1000 year old metalled green lane near where I live; walkers have to scramble up the sides of the hollow road. A shared heritage being destroyed for rich boy's kicks.

I can see the attraction in having a stonking shiny great motor called "BigCock" or "AlphaMale" I'm sure they make people feel like they're floated to the top of the ladder *boilk*. But they shouldn't be off road on this country's greenways and lanes.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Joe_F
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 03:14 PM

In hell, I suppose, there is a highway entirely devoted to tailgaters & roadhogs.

In my cardriving days, I used to wonder if it would be legal to have an electronic display on one's rear that could be used to flash polite messages for people who let you in, and impolite messages to tailgaters. (If you can read this, you are close enough to etc.)

In ancient times, I was in moderately heavy traffic on the New York State Thruway, in the left lane, driving at the speed limit, which was faster than the traffic to my right. That wasn't good enough for the driver behind me, who, after an insanely prolonged stretch of tailgating, pulled out onto the grassy median and passed me at something like 100 mph.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 03:26 PM

Possible Tailgater reasoning: There was this fella that was driving way too close to me.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 04:14 PM

Stu:I can see the attraction in having a stonking shiny great motor called "BigCock" or "AlphaMale" I'm sure they make people feel like they're floated to the top of the ladder *boilk*. But they shouldn't be off road on this country's greenways and lanes.

But around my neck of the woods they're usually driven by "yummy mummies" and used mainly for shopping or school runs. None of the ones down our street would ever go off-road. In fact, twice they've had my wing mirror off on the local semi-rural "rat run" because they're so afraid of roadside twigs and leaves damaging their paintwork that they don't pull over far enough for on-coming traffic.

I've had estate cars for over 25 years now. until about 6 years ago, my car would normally have been one of the larger ones on our street. Now it's almost the smallest. In fact is probably *is* the samllest "prime car of the family" since smaller ones seem to be second or 3rd vehicles in a family.

When I've asked neighbours why they need them, the answer is usually: "they're big, so safe for the kids, and the high driving position means I can see things better".

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 04:56 PM

I noticed invrecent years that some folks tailgate (espevially younger), but don't seem to desire to pass when an opportunity is presented. This puzzles me...maybe these folks are seeking excitement (to match the cabin music) versus being in a safer driving zone?

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 05:02 PM

I think I'm pretty good about moving out of the way of faster traffic, but it's hard to pull off the road when there's a car on my tail. I was in the fast land on the freeway last week when a Highway Patrol car came up on my tail, lights flashing and siren screaming. I couldn't move over because I was in the process of passing another car in fairly heavy traffic. I went off onto the left shoulder, but almost hit a curb in the process.

Thanks for the worst cars link, Ed. I had forgotten that the Lada was modeled after the Fiat. I think the Soviet auto brand I heard of most was the GAZ and ZiL- among other things, they built limousines for party potentates.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 06:14 PM

I stopped tailgating people years ago. Far better to lurk a bit further back so that you can more easily see your chance to overtake. Oddly, I get tailgated meself very frequently when driving the missus's Mazda MX5 with the roof down (seriously, btw, everybody reading this, you need one of those - now...). Dunno what that's all about. I never get tailgated when driving me Ford Focus. I never hang about, always exceeding every speed limit known to man, so it can't be that. Jealousy, I suppose. The stupidest thing is when you're being tailgated when you're in a stream of slow-moving traffic and can't do anything about it. I pull over and let the silly sod pass, so that the poor bugger in front of me gets tailgated instead of me. It may not be Christian but it does soothe the savage breast.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 08:37 PM

For firing H2S capsules, consider a shrunk-down spud gun tapped off the exhaust.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 09:37 PM

I just remembered one occasion when I understood the reason for my being tailgated.

On my way home to the Oregon Coast from the Willamette Valley on a dark rainy night- this was before they made the changes to the road, straightening many parts and taking out many curves altogether - I came down a slope to standing water. My car went into a slide, gliding over the pool. I immediately took my foot off the gas and went slower from then on.

The car behind me stayed followed me the rest of the way. When I got to the lit areas I saw it was a young woman. Obviously she had decided to let the car in front of her test the waters. :)

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 09:40 PM

"Im not tailgating I'm just tring to keep my bumper on."
 

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: LadyJean
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 09:45 PM

A friend of a friend rigged up his trunk (boot in British) so it would open, and a tube that wasn't a cannon, but certainly looked like one, came out. It had quite an effect on tailgaters. I only wish I had one.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 09:51 PM

In at least a couple of provinces in Canada (and I would expect in other jurisdictions too) there are at least 2 laws governing speed, and the one that wins in court is not necessarily the maximum speed law. I cannot cite chapter and verse but there are folks who've been ticketed for misuse of the passing lane when said drivers were going the posted maximum speed while traffic backed up behind them. Recently there has been a police campaign (I forget in which province) to warn and ticket drivers who use the left lane for other than passing. Even if going the speed limit. It would seem that blocking traffic is more illegal than speeding. That said, if you decide to speed and then have an accident, of course the law will be against you.
Conclusion: There is no perfect way to balance practicality with safety and with the vagaries of human nature.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 10:33 PM

Rubbish Stu. The AWDC do far more to protect preserve and repair green lanes (byways and RUPPS) than the Ramblers and local councils combined. I know because I've been out on the work parties. AWDC members know perfectly well that others have prior right of passage - I've often pulled over and turned off (when I had a 4*4) to let horses or walkers past. It's hardly ever the owners of expensive flash 4*4s who use them off road. Most damage is done by farmers. The vast preponderance of recreational 4*4 users know that they must tread lightly. Your ignorance is compounded by your reference to an alleged 1,000 year old METALLED green lane. I don't believe it. Modern metalling did not exist 1,000 years ago. Historic rights of way are being lost to the exclusive use of lords and farmers. The AWDC preserves heritage. You seem to wish only to sanitise and Disneyfy it.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 10:47 PM

THe brake pedal usually will turn the brake lights on BEFORE it engages the actual brakes, so one option is to flash your brake lights at the tailgater, which (if he is rational) would induce him to slow down a bit--if you accelerate at the same time you can get away from the jerk until you get to a safe layby.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 01:01 AM

Anybody remember the James Bond movie "Goldfinger?"

Q issued Bond a rather neat automobile, an Aston Martin DB5 with some very useful accessories. Among other things, at the touch of a button, a couple of vents would open on the rear of the car and spray either an oil slick or a rain of caltrops (little gizmos with spikes that would do a number on the tires of any car following—first designed centuries ago to injure the hooves of horses ridden by charging knights—nasty!).

It also had two .30 cal. machine guns, mounted under the front fenders.

Several nice things that would come in handy when the traffic gets a bit to hectic.

The car became a movie star in its own right. It appeared in several of the James Bond movies, even outlasting Sean Connery.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: JennieG
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 01:13 AM

I've been waiting for the "Goldfinger" car to make an appearance! I would love one of those, it would be such fun......

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 03:26 AM

I realise that some folk become very annoyed when tailgated, but I have to say I was more frightened than angry. After I'd safely reached home I was a bit trembly. I reckon it was the woman's expression and strange face-piercings. I've since wondered if she's one of those numpties who think the speed limit on a single carriageway is 70mph, whereas it most definitely is not, it's 60mph.
I've been looking up various motoring sites online, and most say not to do anything provocative, and not to touch the brakes etc. or slow down to annoying levels. They advise moving over to let the twit past, or turning off temporarily (a bit of a nuisance, but defensive driving is never easy!) My husband said he'd take the line of least resistance, with the aim of ending up with the stupid thing in front, not behind.
But fantasy is always amusing. I've imagined owning a Bond car and letting rip with rear-mounted guns, oil fountains and H2S gas. Then zoom off with a nasty satisfied smirk... Ha!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Stu
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 05:14 AM

"Modern metalling did not exist 1,000 years ago"

A mistake in the way I phrased the sentence. The metalling is thought to be much later than the lane itself, which is hollowed into the landscape. There is nowhere for walkers or horse riders to get out of the way as the sides are around four feet deep of peat. Drivers can be pretty aggressive, very often they don't wait why you scrabble into the Wimberries in a panic as they surge forward regardless. To be fair, it's not just the tiny willy wagons of the moneyed aspirational middle class that are tearing up the local green lanes; those lunatics on motorbikes are as equally dangerous and destructive. Motors of any kind on green lanes, hollow roads and other ancient byways are like clouds - when they fuck off it's a nice day.


"The vast preponderance of recreational 4*4 users know that they must tread lightly."

How do you "tread lightly" in 3/4 ton of metal and plastic? Do you fit noise suppressors to your exhaust? Scrub the air clean on your way past? Get out and replace the displaced cobbles your 100's of quid-a-pop tyres have dislodged? Do you turn the stereo down? Can you hear the Curlews over the engine?

"You seem to wish only to sanitise and Disneyfy it."

Yeah right. You have no idea where I'm even talking about, and the landscape I walk in is far from Disneyfied. Green lanes were meant for walkers and not for lumbering, unsightly and noisy great 4x4s. I would suggest staying off them in motors would be the way to show respect and understanding for these ancient routes and the people that use them. Is there nowhere we can walk without a fucking car chugging into view and imposing it's soul-sapping noise and fume on us?

Aren't there bits of land put aside for wannabe Clarksons to get their yah-yahs without making the rest of us scramble for safety every time their air-conditioned-cut-off-from-the-environment-they're-wrecking boxy frames hove into view?

Each to his own, and although it's not my thing I can see the temptation in having a mighty car called "Warrior" or "Thunder" to enable you to rise above the rest of the great unwashed. Having used them in the US on dinosaur digs as utility vehicles I can understand their worth. Heck, it is fun being off road in one as I can attest. Thing is, once it's gone it's gone, something the Top Gear crowd seem unwilling or unable to appreciate. Our green lanes and hollow tracks are not the place for these monsters.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 06:11 AM

When driving a car, it is especially annoying and distracting to be tailgated at night by a vehicle with bright, highly placed, lights, such as some trucks, vans and SUVs.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Stu
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 06:37 AM

"But around my neck of the woods they're usually driven by "yummy mummies" and used mainly for shopping or school runs."

Funny you should say that, as we were tailgated by a WAG on the same road as the other incident but going the other way and during the daytime. When we got to the main junction and shrugged our shoulders at her she was rather impolite in her reply. Same happened when I pointed out to a rather posh lady that parking her 4x4 in a disabled parking space was a tad selfish.

I have to say I'm not a big fan of cars; horrid, smelly and quite unlovely in appearance (except for Morris travellers) these days they're all plastic and samey, unless you're minted. We used to have two and didn't replace the oldest when we ran it into the ground (it had mushrooms growing on the carpet) for environmental and cash reasons, although we could afford another if we really wanted to. We live in small village a couple of miles from the local market town so I walk in some days, but there's no doubt only having one car means compromising on some 'personal freedom' and can be pretty frustrating. What the heck, you gotta do what you can and it's a small proce to pay. Our other car's a Skoda estate and we can just about get our market stall into it, although it's a squeeze.

Our real problem is the local council stopped our bus service in the evening and on Sundays, and this is a real pain in the arse. The village has a large number of old folk as there is still actual council housing here and they are now stuck at night. Also, the cost is ridiculous about £2.70 for three milestone way.

Still not getting another car though.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: PHJim
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 10:14 AM

Posted by Anonymous GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 03:37 AM
"You should have been cited.
Even if going the speed limit law enforcement had every right to pull you over for speeds so low they are dangerous or impede the normal and reasonable flow of traffic.
It is old people like you that are a hazard and should have their privilege to drive revoked. I hope she noted your number and turned it over to the police. A few more notices and perhaps we can get you off the streets."

GUEST, Do you mean to say that police can ticket someone for not breaking the speed limit? What is the point of having posted speed limits if you're expected to exceed them.
I do feel that a driver who stays in the passing lane when not passing someone deserves to be ticketed, but Eliza made it clear that she was driving on a single lane road with no place to pull over.
Do you consider exceeding the speed limit to be "the normal and reasonable flow of traffic"?
I see some intolerance in your comment about, "It is old people like you..." This seems to indicate that a young person who drives at the posted speed is fine, but not old people.

Eliza, I wish that you hadn't mentioned the age, cigarette and piercings of the driver, since they should not have made a difference to the story. I'm sure the tailgating would have been just as scary if it had been a well groomed, non smoking senior citizen wearing a suit.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Nasty looking old git
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 10:25 AM

Actually we're getting to a point in time now when a generation of punkrockers, bikers, skinheads and crusties,
all resplendant with facial tattoos and piercings,
are getting very close to retirement pension age...

Some of the oldest are already knocking on 70 or more.

Maybe more than a few are mudcatters ???


Now you really should think twice before looking in the rear view mirror to see the face of the driver following you.....

Be very afraid !!!!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 01:49 PM

It was only a short time after "Goldfinger" went the rounds of the movie theaters, the Aston Martin went on tour of British automobile agencies. The stunt driver who did Sean Connery's driving in the more hairy scenes went with the car and gave talks about the car at British car dealerships around the country (U.S.) and it was at the Seattle dealership that a friend of mine and I went to have a look and listen.

There it sat, in the middle of the show room floor with the stunt driver (who resembled Connery a bit) standing by. The Aston Martin was surrounded by some pretty nice iron, Jaguars, both sports cars and saloons, a couple of shiny Rolls', some others I didn't recognize……   They were to drool over!

The driver said that everything in the car—with the exception of the passenger ejection seat—actually worked. The explosion of the shell that ejected the seat would have killed or seriously injured the driver as well as blowing the passenger out through the roof. The axle that extended with the tire-cutting buzz-saw also worked, but he said it was sufficiently delicate that they installed it only when they were going to use it. But he said to bring the car into the United States, they had to remove the machine guns under the front fenders.

One gizmo that they didn't use in the movies (at least by the time the car was on tour) he said was totally impractical for the stated purpose. The ram bumpers. The front and rear bumpers would extend about three feet and were intended to be used to ram another car.   But, he said, they actually would not have protected the Aston Martin that much. He went on to say that they did have one practical use, however. If you parked, just extend the bumpers (they extended about three feet, for and aft) and nobody could block you in. If they did, all you needed to do was retract the bumpers and you'd have six feet of room to maneuver in.

But progress progresses. Recently, I've seen commercials on television for a couple of new cars that have detectors and computers on board that will automatically maintain a safe distance between it and the next car ahead. Collision avoidance device. If that gets around, it should solve the tailgating problem. The driver's own car with not allow the car to tailgate.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: kendall
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 01:55 PM

Adjusting the windshield washer nozzles so that much of the water goes over the roof. It's fun to see the tailgater running his washers, and probably blessing me.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 02:07 PM

Stu, you are an idiot. A driver should never "surge forwards regardless" - but idiotic wearers of goatshair socks often choose to try to obstruct drivers precisely where they will get stuck if they stop.

You plainly know nothing about the history of "green lanes". There are, historically, three levels of rights of way. Footway, Bridleway, and Cartway. It is total rubbish to assert that "green lanes" are for walkers - unless you are talking about footpaths, where there should be no pedal cycles, no horses, and no wheeled vehicles other than hand-propelled. Bridleways are open to pedal cyclists so long as they give way to horses (I bet most mountain bikers don't know that). Byways are and RUPPS should be (depending on your view of the law) open to all traffic.

Historically bridleways and vehicular rights of way (the designations "byway" and "RUPP" are relatively modern) were churned up morasses of three feet of mud, in which people could and did drown or suffocate, in the wet season.

And you want history to be re-written so you can mince around on a nice surface.

If you want to walk in solitary exclusion - USE A FOOTPATH. Otherwise share with other lawful users and offer mutual consideration.

Oh - and only an idiot leaves his sounds on when offroad - he needs to hear what the vehicle is doing, and what the ground and foliage are doing.

You really have no idea at all about off-road drivers, do you? ONLY farm tractors can make those two foot deep ruts. No domestic 4*4 known on earth can do that. Some of the exotica with portal axles might manage it, but they are as common as rockinghorse shit - a bit like sense from you.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Penny S.
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 02:58 PM

There's lots of those women in 4X4s round here. Forcing the other driver approaching them into the hedge while they keep a good foot between themselves and the one their side. Parking in a way in the Waitrose carpark that blocks others from spaces. Forcing oncoming cars to reverse for yards downhill while they cannot reverse to the space they have just passed. No eye contact. No acknowledgment of the courtesy of others. I don't think they see other drivers. And I don't think they have developed the sense of the boundaries of the car that good drivers have.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 02:59 PM

I have driven a tank in my time. They tend to make 3' deep ruts.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 03:08 PM

Somebody rig up a couple of UAVs with flashlights and do a Close Encounters UFO flyover to a yummy mummy?

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Stu in the ether
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 03:21 PM

Stu, you are an idiot

Seriously? After all these debates I've followed and been involved in that you have too, the best you can do is such a pathetic, unimaginative an ad hominem attack?

It's sad the subtlety if the argument eludes you. I'm well open to some good, robust and direct debate but this is simply sad. Grow up and act like a debate has some nuance beyond the codified nonsense committed to paper for the purpose of oppressing those with not as much money as you. Argue the side of law, but the law's an ass, and today his shown.

It's about respect, an understanding of history, a concern for our common heritage, even beyond our own restricted social and professional circles.

Never took you for a Clarkson.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 07:59 PM

If some twat is tailgating you, the solution is devastatingly simple. Pull over and let him or her pass. Be rational here. You are trying to get from A to B, not proving how bloody virile you are by resisting the silly bastard. Pull over. You will get to your destination just as quickly. It's the velvet steering wheel Sunday driver over-80s club that will hold you up, not the tailgater.

The best advice is to get a bloody move on, and use your mirror. I've driven behind people who haven't looked in their mirror for twenty miles. If you're leading a convoy of more than two or three cars, pull over and let them go. I don't care whether you're driving at the bloody speed limit or, sanctimoniously, a few miles below and asserting your moral bloody right. Pull over. The people on your tail are flawed human beings, but they might have wives and kids. They don't deserve to die just because you're being a bit of a twat doing 44 in a 60. Pull over. Keep life sweet. And get your stupid 68.549mph arse out of that middle lane on the M6, otherwise I might have to have you somewhat killed, figuratively speaking of course. Jaysus, these tin overcoats...

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 07:22 AM

I thought we were talking narrow rural roads here. Very few places to pull over and if it's dark you're past them before you know they're there especially with a tailgate right behind you. No, the tailgater is at fault here - you shouldn't be harassing other road users. The ability to drive a motor vehicle on public road is a priviledge granted under the terms of a licence and not a right.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 07:39 AM

If some twat is tailgating you, the solution is devastatingly simple. Pull over and let him or her pass.

Sorry, Steve, but that may be easier said than done on some roads. While I agree in principle, I have already said I will help anyone overtaking as much as safely possible it is not always easy on some of our roads. Some of the idiot tailgaters don't seem to realise that and seem to believe that if they put their radiator in your back window a place to overtake will miraculously appear. What is more, I have been in the situation where I have slowed down and pulled over to let them pass only to be given two fingers and a load of abuse from the idiot.

There is simply no excuse for tailgating and by saying it is the fault of "a bit of a twat doing 44 in a 60" seems to be justifying their behaviour. Also there are many 60MPH roads near us, and as many near you I suspect, where it would be dangerous to travel at that speed. It is often not a question of being a twat but being sensible about it.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 10:10 AM

I used to hate it when slightly guilty pupils in my class would look at me with wide-open eyes and declare that 'they hadn't done anything wrong, miss'.. But I sincerely believe that I had done nothing whatsoever to antagonise or frustrate this lass. I was doing the speed limit the whole way. She was attached to my rear bumper the whole way. Even through two villages where there are speed cameras, I slowed to 30mph and she stuck there as if glued on. She was lucky, as my correct speed prevented her getting a fine through the post. Our narrow rural roads are all single-carriageway and mostly 60mph but sometimes the limit drops to 50 or even 40. At one point I wondered if she'd follow me right to our front door, and was glad that I knew my husband would be home. I will definitely turn off the main route next time and wait a bit before rejoining it! I have since wondered if she thought I was someone else - perhaps a lady who'd seduced her husband, or pranged her car in the past. If so, her husband must have weird tastes in stout elderly ladies!!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 10:15 AM

At this point I recommend viewing of Quentin Tarantino's movie "Death Proof"

A loving pastiche of 1970's style cheapo exploitation drive in B features...

Regarding a psyco stalker muscle car driver with evil intent

The hi octane car chase in the last 20 minutes should appeal to both perps and victims of tailgating..

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 11:02 AM

Wasn't there a film called 'Duel' where a poor chap was followed by a menacing-looking lorry?

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 11:10 AM

Yes, and a few other watchable variations on this theme...


Murderous stalker driver / demonic posessed vehicle movies probably constitute a sparate genre of their own..

BTW.. the extended unct version of "Death Proof" is the one to look out for on discount DVD shelves..

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 12:26 PM

In the US tailgaters can get ticketed.

I don't understand, though, why a person would not pull over and force someone to pass when going through a village? In a village there must be LOTS of places one can do so. If one doesn't want to be obvious about the feint one can pretend to stop at a petrol station.

In my own case, after giving the driver behind me a number of chances to pass me, I accepted it and drove normally the rest of the way.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: meself
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 12:39 PM

Similarly, I will deliberately slow down in a clear passing zone to make it easy for the tailgater to pass - a couple of times, anyway; if they don't take the opportunity, then it's their problem (except that they're still on my tail).

Btw, contrary to popular belief, tailgaters are actually of the crocodile family, and no relation to alligators whatsoever (notice the difference in spelling). Occasionally, tailgaters are confused with gator-tails, with embarrassing and even disastrous consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 01:22 PM

I believe this is the movie mentioned above:   "DUEL".

Both the original short story and the screenplay were written by Richard Matheson. I recall reading it in a magazine a few years before the movie appeared. The movie was directed by Steven Spielberg and I believe it was made for television. That's where I saw it.

Dennis Weaver starred, and the villain was a rusty old tanker truck that began to take on the character of a prehistoric monster. You never get a look at the driver of the truck, other than his left elbow leaning on the window of the truck's cab and one scene in a gas station when you see a pair of booted feet walking around the truck and kicking the tires—waiting while the protagonist finishes his lunch at a nearby lunch counter. Toward the end, when the protagonist decides he's not going to take it anymore, it begins to take on the aspects of a bull fight.

A real white-knuckle thriller!

Here is a full detailed synopsis of the story: CLICKY 2.

BEWARE. SPOILER ALERT!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 02:33 PM

New bumper sticker needed: "Your need to tailgate does not affect my accelerator. I'll get out of your way when safe to do so."
Trust me, the true arses will be close enough to read all that fine print.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 07:09 PM

Complete rubbish again Stu. You apparently have no idea of the history of highway whereas I have looked at it more than a bit. Look at the FACTS. Recreational 4*4 drivers do more to preserve rights of way than anyone except the Trail Riders' Fellowship - and perhaps the legendary Pat Wilson (one of the good eggs from the Ramblers' Association - they have a lot of twunts but she was never one) at whose approach grown farmers who had ploughed a right of way would pull their own heads off in terror. I walked many a path with her, and learned the true name of "Scratchers Corner".

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 07:38 PM

Showing a white light to the rear, in the UK, is an offence, but if I'm tailgated at night with headlights blazing in my mirrors, I dip the interior mirror, then raise the electrically adjustable door mirrors till they reflect the bastard's own lights straight in his eyes. I'm not showing a white light, he is. I'm simply adjusting to avoid being dazzled

It doesn't matter if he stays behind or pulls left or right, he can't get out of the beam.

It never takes more than about twenty seconds before he drops back to a safe distance.

In daytime I just slow gently till he's forced to overtake.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 09:11 PM

I've tried to find the right mirror angles to reflect the light into the eyes of the jerks who drive behind me with their high beams on. So far, I haven't figured it out.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 09:32 PM

I drive fast at all times but I still get tailgated. I live in Cornwall, a place replete with narrow and twisty country roads. It is rare that I can go for more than a quarter of a mile or so without finding somewhere to pull over to let someone go past. Just let them go. It's easy. If you won't, or make excuses for why you won't, you are actually saying that what your real motive is is to sanctimoniously teach the tailgaters a lesson. Well you just won't manage that. Life's too short. Pull over, save your anxiety and quell their frustration. And the "I'm driving at the speed limit so the tailgaters can bugger off" argument doesn't wash either. In theory, extending that argument, you would be morally correct to stick yourself in the middle lane of the crowded M5 and drive at exactly 70. If you want to find out just what a twattish argument that is, just try doing it. Please report back your findings to this thread. Try to remember that driving is all about getting from A to B, not about setting out on a moral mission to teach flawed human beings in dangerous tin overcoats how to behave. Save that for this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 09:40 PM

I've tried to find the right mirror angles to reflect the light into the eyes of the jerks who drive behind me with their high beams on. So far, I haven't figured it out.

Just as well you haven't figured it out. The fact that you haven't figured it out might just save a life. He may be a jerk, but he's also someone's son, husband and dad. Just pull over and let him go.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 04:23 AM

Nah, sorry Steve, the guy in the middle lane of the M5 is also breaking the law. You are not comparing like with like there. I don't think it is a question of teaching anyone a lesson either. I am happy to let anyone pass, but only when it is safe and I will not go out of my way for someone who is putting me and others in danger. I'm not that altruistic I'm afraid!

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this and hope you don't get stuck behind me while you are driving your Mum round the little roads of Pendle at 65 MPH :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 04:38 AM

Goodness, Steve, I'm not and never have been on any 'moral mission'. I like to get through life as gently and quietly as possible. And at my age, I'm not about to start any retaliation or confrontational action towards any motorist (or any other person either!) I was simply afraid, and felt rather alone in my little Fiesta. I still think the best suggestion here (from many contributors) is to turn off safely where possible and wait a few minutes, then resume the journey sans twit! I haven't mentioned, have I, that the roads were almost completely empty, which made me a bit more scared. If (God forbid) there'd been an accident or a shunt, the mobile signal is nil and one could lie there injured for ages before anyone happened along. Gulp!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 04:43 AM

The "middle lane" on a 3-lane motorway is for overtaking drivers who are in the left hand (UK) lane. And so on. The Highway Code is quite clear, you should drive in the furthest left lane that is safe. In theory it would be possible for a member of the middle lane owners' club to be fined for driving without due care and consideration, if he were obstructing other traffic (who should NOT overtake on his inside) but if he were driving at the speed limit it is hard to envisage it occurring.

The legal limit on single carriageways is never more than 60.

Having said that I am pretty much a press-on driver so rarely get tailgated, although if I have the caravan on the back and am doing the legal limit (plus maybe a mile-an-hour or two, just for luck) I do get frustrated by drivers who are manifestly champing at the bit behind me.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 06:06 AM

The legal limit on single carriageways is never more than 60

Indeed, Richard. But it is amazing how accurate the old 10% + 2MPH is when I compare my speedo to the SatNav. The speedo is generaly about 10% more than the SatNav. Speedo is on a 9 year old car, built in Dagenham, with 120K on the clock. SatNav relies on 21st century technology constantly being updated by National Defense organisations and it agrees with those signs that flash your speed at you.

I know which I believe :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Midchuck
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 06:33 AM

The Highway Code is quite clear, you should drive in the furthest left lane that is safe.

We must have more new immigration from Britain than I ever realized. Because we get quite a few drivers who follow that rule in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 06:39 AM

Ah, I forgot about that recent law change concerning the middle lane. However, the point still stands in that anyone behind the 70mph-you in that middle lane who is hassling you is wanting to break another law, i.e., exceeding the speed limit. Are you doing anyone a favour by stopping him from doing so? I don't think so. And, despite the law, middle-lane hogs are abundant and universal and I've yet to hear of one being prosecuted.

This is always an issue that attracts its fair and hefty share of sanctimony. The thing is, you can always let someone pass. It won't be long before you can find somewhere to stop or pull in for a second. It won't bugger up your life so to do. So do it. The roads are crowded, slow drivers are a pain in the arse and they need to ditch their devilish control-freakery, use their mirrors a bit more, stop arguing with the kids in the back, leave the bloody dog at home and put the burger down on the dashboard. Driving is a gig unto itself. I'd ban for life anyone who cuts the corner on a right turn (sorry, yanks, not you).

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 08:12 AM

I'm a cyclist...


but if I did drive, it'd be a fast engined, mechanically sound large vehicle
with noticably battle scarred bodywork,
which I wouldn't care if it aquired any more new scrapes, minor dents or scratches..
[a bit like my guitars]

Something anybody tailgating in a pristine shiny showroom condition car
ought to take into consideration whilst contemplating clinging to my arse
and risking my safety in an intimidating bullying fashion.


Lets just say I'd be a very 'assertive' driver...


Fortunately, both times I took driving lessions, I was too skint to complete the course and pay for a test..

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 09:23 AM

It won't be long before you can find somewhere to stop or pull in for a second.

That is probably true in most cases, Steve, but there are exceptions. Someone already mentioned driving in the dark and not seeing a suitable place until it is too late. Surely to slow down so you may see somewhere would only make matter worse? There is also the fear that the tailgater may be a nutter waiting for you to stop so they can continue their nefarious pursuits! If you were on a lonely road, by yourself and a the someone was trying to put a tinted windscreen of a 'gangsta truck' in your boot, would you honestly stop with no thought of your own safety? What if you are in a queue behind a slow moving vehicle and being tailgated? It has happened to me a few times on the Colne to Keighley road. Do you pull in and let the whole queue past, because you can guarantee that once you pull in, no-one in the queue will let you back in again!

Still, yes, I concede that these are corner cases and for most of the time, yes, somewhere will appear within 5 minutes or so. Trouble is, 5 minutes of aggressive tailgating is just as dangerous as 15 minutes of it.

Anyway - Careful out there :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 09:29 AM

Incidentally, Advanced Driving UK do not recommend stopping. See here

Good tips for all I think.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 09:33 AM

... and time to recommend "Devil's Bridge" DVD...

A recent low budget indie Welsh [English Language] nasty brutal rural thriller
regarding a bonkers beserk Welsh farmer tailgating & stalking arrogant Essex boy visitors
to his isolated agricultural hunting ground.....

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 09:48 AM

The (KIA) link does not you provided does seem to indicate what you stated in your last post, dtg....unless I missed something?

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 09:50 AM

Oops, meant " the link you provided "does not" indicate...

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Stu
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 09:52 AM

"Recreational 4*4 drivers do more to preserve rights of way than anyone except the Trail Riders' Fellowship"

This isn't about preserving the rights of way - it's about respect for the countryside, caring for our shared heritage and recognising not everyone wants to spend their time in the company of the internal combustion engine.

It's bit like gamekeepers 'preserving' the grouse moors. They do it for a rich elite, ignore the ecosystem and don't give a shite for the fact they might be running it for everyone else.


"The "middle lane" on a 3-lane motorway is for overtaking drivers who are in the left hand (UK) lane."

So many arseholes don't understand this it's impressive.


Anyhow, I'm not a fast driver and tend to drive at the speed limit most of the time. This seems to infuriate plenty of people, who seem to believe they are different from the rest of us and require special treatment. Tossers.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 10:04 AM

"DEVIL'S BRIDGE" Trailer

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 10:28 AM

Not sure what you mean, Ed. The link I provided does not recommend stopping, which is what I said. I think :-S

D.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 10:40 AM

I agree that pulling over when it is safe to do so is the sensible thing to do but in the meantime, when you're waiting for the safe opportunity, you are still being tailgated. Even half a mile, with someone stuck right up your backside, can seem an awfully long way.

If I am driving a large or slow vehicle which is likely to hold up other traffic driving at normal speeds, I try to be considerate to other road users and pull over to let them pass. If, however, I am in a car making good progress, limited only by the law or current road conditions, then the person behind me will have to put up with the fact that I am using that particular bit of road at that particular time. He is free to use it once I have finished with it. I make every effort to be in the appropriate lane on motorways and always co-operate with those making passing manoeuvres so that we can both carry on our journeys safely. If I am tailgated I won't deliberately slow down but I do increase the distance between me and the person in front to allow me time to brake more gently. What I don't do is let them harass me into speeding up beyond what is safe for the road conditions.

Tailgating is intimidation. If everyone else moves out of the way of the bully, then it encourages him/her to go on and bully the next victim.


DC

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 10:47 AM

The link you provided, DtG, recommends creating more space between you and the vehicle ahead- which I think is another way of advocating slowing down...

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 10:48 AM

From what I saw on the linked (KIA) page, it does not seem to specifically say not to stop, where safe, either. However, it does seem to recommend getting "out if the way" of a tailgater, when you can "safely" do so. If one can safely do so without stopping, far the better for everyone. Anyway, not to feed a minor issue, that seems like good advice to me.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 12:22 PM

... creating more space between you and the vehicle ahead- which I think is another way of advocating slowing down...

Slowing down for a short time to achieve the desired space, then returning back to the same speed as the vehicle ahead.


DC

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 12:32 PM

No - it doesn't say anything about stopping, Ed, which is why I said it does not recommend it. But you are right - minor issue. I think we are saying the same thing really and we agree it is good advice.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 02:45 PM

Stu - minor highways carrying established or putative vehicular rights total under 5% of the minor highway network. You have 95%. Don't be greedy (or prejudiced).

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 03:13 PM

I did indeed slow down on approaching two villages with speed limits of 30 mph. But she was glued to my rear end the entire time. I don't mean 'a bit close' either; I mean as if she was attached to my boot.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 03:18 PM

Question then, Eliza. Would you have felt safe stopping at the side of the road, where appropriate, to let her pass?

D.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Stu
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 04:02 PM

"Stu - minor highways carrying established or putative vehicular rights total under 5% of the minor highway network. You have 95%. Don't be greedy (or prejudiced)."

Well I didn't know that. I'm not prejudiced as such; it's just that it is becoming increasingly difficult to get away from the sound and smell of motors. So I'm willing to accept that those tearing up our local hollow lanes might be bad eggs; there is scant enough respect for the wildlife in this country without making it worse where it could be avoided.

As for militant ramblers, they're still nowhere near as bad as the hordes of Eddy Merx wannabes blocking up the main roads at seeking, riding six abreast whilst discussing where the lycra chafes. And those loonies on motorbikes; there are roads near us I won't even travel on at weekends. Ack.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 04:18 PM

Dave, probably not. As her behaviour was so bizarre, I'd have been afraid she may have pulled up behind me and stopped too. I wouldn't have had much of a signal on the mobile, and when I say 'villages' I mean tiny hamlets; there weren't any people about on a Sunday evening, no shops open etc, so help would have been hard to get. Maybe this is being too dramatic, and I'm normally a down-to-earth sensible old thing, but one never knows. I can't think what her mindset may have been. Her expression was certainly fierce and angry! I suppose if really frightened I could have driven right up into someone's drive and knocked on the door to ask them to call the Police, but that would have been a last resort.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 04:32 PM

Open up the gap in front of you. That gives you a safety margin. You don't have to find a layby. Just indicate left on a straight stretch and slow down and let the silly bugger pass. You may have the moral right to drive at whatever speed you like but you don't have the moral right to increasingly frustrate some imbecile who, by dint of your frustrating tactics, might increasingly endanger other road-users. Have a little think about this. Then let them pass.

Drove for 20 miles this afternoon behind a little old lady in a Micra doing 35 max on the B3266. The convoy grew ever larger. Every car coming the other way had her brake lights coming on. Even on the uphill bits. She appeared not to be aware of the existence of her rear-view mirror. Give me a bloody tailgater any time.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 04:43 PM

'Open up the gap in front of you...' er... Steve, the 'gap in front of me' was endless. In fact, there was the whole of Norfolk in front of me and nobody else on the road. You sound very angry for some reason. I have 'thought about this' as you kindly suggest, but can figure out absolutely nothing that I was doing wrong. She could have zoomed past at any time, but seemed bent on following me at close quarters. If you like having a tailgater behind you, please take her; you're most welcome!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 05:41 PM

You sound very angry for some reason.

Nah. As a 15000-mile per year road user, just resigned, that's all.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 07:44 PM

Eliza, sorry for your experience, as it must have been terrifying for you.

However, it may have been unique, and thus, the " best practice" reaction in your case may be quite different from the "garden variety" tailgating situation most of us experience on a daily basis. Describing a best-reaction to tailgating should be geared toward the mean, versus the extreme, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 03:47 AM

Well, thank you again to all; I expect it was a one-off. I'm certainly not going to stop driving to see my friends because of this. I've always held to the belief that the vast majority of folk all over the world are intrinsically good, and NOT vicious or evil, so I'll travel on towards the end of my life with optimism and goodwill!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 05:58 AM

You don't have to find a layby. Just indicate left on a straight stretch and slow down and let the silly bugger pass.

That's a much better idea than stopping, Steve. I guess that is what you were getting at in the first place? If so, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Funnily enough I picked Mrs G up from the bus station in Nelson last night. On the A6068 on the way I was about 4th in a queue behind a Number 25 bus. Just behind me was a Range Rover Evoque trying to climb over my roof. I did everything that was recommended but it was still there when we got to Colne. We parted company there but, for about 15 minutes, it was an accident waiting to happen.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 08:56 AM

Dave, that perfectly illustrates the evidence gathering value and need
for front and rear facing purpose designed vehicle mini digital cam recorders....

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 09:42 AM

One solution (Not REALLY recommended)

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 09:57 AM

Funny though :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 11:01 AM

Eliza - I know the roads in your neck of the woods and really do sympathise with your situation. Those roads are, on the whole, quite narrow, with little space to pull over to let a car pass and, in your shoes, I would not have WANTED to do that anyway, being a female alone in a car with no mobile signal and very little in the way of help if the driver was actually trying to make you stop for their own reasons. This may sound paranoid, but it has happened and I believe in safe not sorry. I do think that taking the reg number, if you can see it, and then reporting the person to the Police is a good idea.

My ex-husband went on a defensive driving course and was advised not to touch the brakes, as this could be seen as a sign of aggression, but rather to operate the windscreen washers, as Jeri suggested. Cleaning the windscreen is good practice anyway and, if the washers are set just right, can hit the tailgater's screen. I've done this a number of times and they do tend to hang back a bit as a result.

I've been on the A1 in dense fog and the M1 in driving rain, both times in the right lane following and whole queue of cars and both times with the other lanes totally blocked. Everyone driving at a speed condusive to the road conditions. Both times I get the idiot charging up behind me wanting to climb over my car to then bully the one in front of me. Both times I just slowed down enough to put a good distance between me and the car in front.

Here in Maine the speed limit on our local roads is 35mph. This is an area of private dwellings, schools and shops. There are pedestrians and cyclists around as well as kids. I stay at the speed limit and, if someone tailgates me, I am not going to stop and let them pass. This is an area where exceeding the speed limit is dangerous to other road users. When someone sits too long on my tail I slow down on these roads until they back off. I see this as maybe saving the life of a child who may otherwise be in the path of a motorist driving too fast to be totally aware of what is going on ahead, or to be able to stop in case of an emergency. What happens to the idiot behind the wheel of a speeding vehicle is really not my concern - they put themselves in that position.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 11:14 AM

Most frequent forms of road rage*
62% Aggressive tailgating
59% Headlight flashing
48% Obscene gestures
21% Deliberately obstructing other vehicles
16% Verbal abuse
1% Physical assault by other drivers




Road rage 

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 11:23 AM

Resources:

Tailgating and road rage 




advice from wikihow advice from wikihow 

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 11:24 AM

Sorry about the double wikihow link:(

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Penny S.
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 03:45 PM

My worst case was driving down the A1, three lanes. There was slwo traffic in lane one. In lane two were some film location trucks, driven very close together, so they might have been a train, connected. They were going slower than 70, perhaps 55 limited. I had started to pass them, at 70, when I was flashed from behind. Flashy expensive classy vehicle, tailgating, and absolutely no where for me to go - those film lorries were long and there were several of them. I refused to be pushed over the limit, but it took what seemed ages to get past the location stuff. When I moved in to lane two, the big black idiot surged past - and in the back window was a sign telling those who might tailgate him that there were children on board - and from what I saw, there were.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 04:19 AM

Penny, did you not look in your mirror before overtaking, and did you not see a car coming up fast? I remember once long ago on the M2 (2 lane motorway) I was in the outside lane in a Daf 66 estate, fully loaded with a PA rig, and there was a queue of us waiting for one lorry to get past another: we all wanted to overtake both.

The faster truck cleared, and pulled in, leaving a small but slowly growing gap between itself and the slower truck. The cars ahead of me accelerated through, past both trucks, and I put my foot down and waited to gather way. A car appeared behind me, but I had started my overtaking manoeuvre and was already alongside the slow lorry. I finished overtaking both lorries and the plainclothes police car behind me put his flashing lights on, pulled me over, and tried to tell me that I should either have aborted the overtaking manoeuvre completely, or pulled in behind the faster lorry, to let him by.

I wasn't going to argue because if he'd taken me to a weighbridge I was probably well overloaded - but I thought then that he was wrong and I still do. Until he lit up, the fact that he was a plod was indiscernible. But if he was right you too should have let the faster car through.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 06:31 AM

Until he lit up, the fact that he was a plod was indiscernible. But if he was right you too should have let the faster car through.

If he had switched his lights on during your passing manoeuvre then, yes, you should have made an effort to get out of the way, abandoning your overtake if necessary. As he was not showing any light or sounding a siren until after you had completed the pass then he was just another road user. He was not right - he should have allowed you to complete your legal move and then taken his turn.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 07:55 AM

I agree with Doug. If there is sufficient time to pull out and start overtaking at the legal speed limit, without causing the car behind to brake sharply then that person will have to do what the rest of us have to do when sitting behind slower moving vehicles that are overtaking the slow ones and that is bring the speed down to avoid collision.

I've been in Penny's situation on that same road - quite often the tailgater is a fair way up the road before I start overtaking, far enough away for me to make my move and get back in lane, at the legal limit, without inconveniencing them, and it's purely the fact that they are going well above the limit that puts them on my tail while I'm still in the overtaking lane.

Sounds like, in your case Richard, that the plod were using their status to excuse their own wrongdoing.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 06:47 PM

If you're absolutely intent on not exceeding 70, and you wish to overtake traffic travelling at, say, 68, then you are are going to take a very long time to overtake. This is not a safe situation to be in for several reasons. First, the vehicle you are overtaking may not be aware of your presence in his blind spot, in which you will be lingering for an awfully long time. Second, vehicles behind you who, understandably, want to overtake far more decisively than you appear to want to, will be frustrated by the fact that your tardy manoeuvre may actually prevent their overtaking at all. Third, you are taking far too long over a move that is full of potential hazards. If you wish to overtake, do it quickly and decisively. If you can overtake only by taking ages over it because of your speed limit obsession, then stay back and don't overtake. Otherwise, you're a bloody menace to other road-users.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 08:10 PM

In this country, road rage can get you killed.
I have a motto: I drive my car, you drive yours, and never the twain shall meet.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 08:13 PM

Everyone has a cell phone these days, and we are encouraged to report aggressive drivers to the police.

The windshield washer stunt works.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 08:26 PM

"If you won't, or make excuses for why you won't, you are actually saying that what your real motive is is to sanctimoniously teach the tailgaters a lesson. Well you just won't manage that. Life's too short. Pull over, save your anxiety and quell their frustration."

It's not about teaching any lessons, but rather about persuading the perpetrator to drop back to a safe position, and remember, there are places where pulling over isn't an option.

Try it on a motorway like M25 when you are in a three lane 60mph traffic jam and the prick behind is trying to force you, and everyone else, to get out of his way. If the guy in front of you sneezes, you're going to have chummy in your boot.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 08:40 PM

There clearly seems to be different circumstances that warrant different actions. That being considered, acting like "a tough guy", and taking these people on in an emotionally charged situation has the potential of making a bad situation even worse.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: HuwG
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 10:33 PM

My two penn'orth. In January, I started a new job on the far side of Sheffield, which makes it necessary to drive over two of the most notorious road in Britain daily - the A57 (Snake Pass) and A628 (Woodhead). The Snake is especially nasty; between the outskirts of Sheffield and the environs of Glossop at the other end of the pass, there are perhaps four places where overtaking at speed is possible.

I know both roads well and have a set of pace notes running in my head. I can usually spot those unfamiliar with the road, as they usually brake hard for approaching bends not knowing how sharp or otherwise they may be. I invariably keep my distance. If need be, I can always pounce, on one of the overtaking stretches. That doesn't stop some impatient idiots tailgating first me, then the dawdler in front when I have let the idiot past.

What the impatient ones seem to have in common is a 2.0 TDi engine of some sorts, boasting 200+ hp. (My car had 89 hp when built in 1996 and four previous not-so-careful owners have cost it some of these horses.) I do not regard excessive speed on the Snake as proof of skilful driving, since anyone can floor a throttle.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 06:00 AM

Interestingly, if you are too close behind another vehicle, it makes overtaking harder as your field of view is limited. Best way is to hang back and when you spot the approaching opportunity, accelerate before you pull out. Don't forget to leave enough room to abort the manoeuvre in case of changed circumstances!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 06:19 AM

I agree, kendall, that everyone has a mobile phone these days. But here there just isn't any kind of signal. Norfolk is a notorious flat spot for phone signals and also Broadband speeds. Mine is in the car but never turned on, as it's pointless. Only in Norwich does it work.
Secondly, I don't believe this woman even wanted to overtake me. She could have done so at almost any time, as the road was completely empty. She must have been fiendishly enjoying hassling me; I can think of no other reason.
I wouldn't dream of 'teaching anyone a lesson' on the road. I merely wanted to finish my journey in safety. I never drive on a Motorway, because, as I said, there are none in Norfolk. But in the past I have done so when visiting Prisons. I've been all over England doing that, and the only problem was that my tiny car could be unseen by huge lorries, and sandwiched in between them. I'm fascinated by the number of posts on this thread. It seems many people have had similar problems with tailgating. It's an aggressive world out there on the roads apparently!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 04:58 PM

the dodgy part in passing heavy trucks is when you are level with the cab , since the driver is higher up. when you are still alongside the trailer he should be able to see you very well in his mirror.
it is advisable not to get too close ,as sometimes it might stray a bit if the driver is tired. he should really turn off and have a coffee or a sleep, but unfortunately there is usually a boss on his back to deliver or load on time.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 07:17 PM

There's always a way of letting the prick get past you. It requires two things, according, of course, to your gender. Use your mirror and lose your testosterone. People get so worked up about this. Your aim is to get to your destination safely. If some brainless imbecile is threatening you from behind, do all in your power to let him pass. You passed your driving test, remember? By now you should have developed sufficient resourcefulness to deal with a tailgater, and there's only one way: let him pass!

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 01:06 PM

Steve, in Eliza's case the tailgater had plenty of opportunity to pass (those Norfolk roads are long and straight in a lot of places) but chose not to do that. In those circumstances, and being a lone female in the car and with no mobile phone signal, I would not on any account stop to let it past as that could be exactly what the tailgater wanted her to do. Maybe, as females, we think more defensively than do most men, but there is always the thought that we could be vulnerable to attack in such a circumstance

I think Eliza did exactly the right thing in the circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 02:38 PM

It's easy to let a prick pass you. It's quite difficult, on a 2-lane road, to force them to.
Lots of places here where you can't pull off the side of the road, and have to turn or pull into a driveway. And no, I don't stop at night, and might not in the day. Eliza was being tailgated by someone who exhibited irrational, aggressive behavior. I would not want to make the situation worse than having a jerk trying to get conjugal with your boot.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Aug 14 - 11:53 PM

Just adding "Highwaymen" (2004)to the list of movies.

This would make a superb double bill with "Death Proof"

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 07:06 AM

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2014/07/the-beauty-of-zipper-merging-or-why-you-should-drive-ruder/

Read this recently and it opened my mind about some things. The best is the comment section, which (like this one : ) really gives you a nice collection of different frames of mind/filters.

Seems like it's like all of life: it goes along better if we figure out what works best, then agree to follow the rules. But there'll always be outliers, bullies and cheats. Trick is to learn to just get out of the way and let them be, without letting them get to you. I daily work on this : )

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 10:44 AM

I disagree with their ideal way of zipper merging. If you move out of the soon-to-end lane early, all the cars behind you will zoom past. The slow-down will happen regardless, but it will be slower in the merged-into lane because it's already full of early mergers in it.

Every once in a while, I've noticed a big truck move over to block the zoom-by merge lane, and if he's ahead of me, I save his space. It really does work better as a zipper and not a main-lane and a bypss-lane.

I've also let two people in in front of me when I notice the guy behind me has cut off the car that should have zipped in.

DC Beltway drives are experts in zipper merging, IMO. Not to mention skilled (most of the time) bumper riding.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Mysha
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 06:02 PM

Hi,

I do encounter the occasional slow traffic. I see no reason to stay close behind them, so I will usually be several lengths behind. Mostly, I just take the time to view whatever is there to see, and wait until we go different ways. If I'm in a hurry, which happens sometimes, I wait until I see a spot coming up where I can use the gap between us to create overtaking speed, and quickly pass.

On the other hand, I often have cars hanging behind me, and usually I let them pass as soon as I can, even if there may be an opportunity for them to do so on their own later on. Gets me a fair amount of thank-you waves.

But some people have minds that are geared differently, and I'd say that's the reason not to challenge them with lights and things like that: Not too long ago, a car stayed behind me; I could not slow down drastically, to use some escape off the road, as they would have driven into me. I would make as much room as I could but even with no other traffic present they would not pass. Where my speed went down as I went uphill, theirs would go down as far as mine.

Eventually, having lost some speed - don't recall through what road feature - I steered into the grass, put down one foot, and pivoted while pulling my bicycle from the road. They drove passed and accelerated.

Fortunately, there was no need to continue the manoeuvre by cycling the other way while they stopped. I did decide to take an early lunch break to calm down a bit, though. Now, obviously, someone who stays behind my bicycle like that, does it to displease me; there's no other explanation. There must be something in their minds that tells them to do so, but I don't know what. But since their minds work differently, it's probably wisest not to challenge them.

Bye
                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 08:38 PM

Like Jeri, I have driven on the Wash.DC beltway (I-495) and experienced the merging issue. I tend to merge IF I see easy access, but in heavy traffic, getting someone to allow you in may be chancy. I then maintain the basic speed of the thru lane until there is an opening- or until I reach the final merge point, where someone will always allow you a turn.
Sounds fair & reasonable, hmmm? But all too often the cars behind me in the lane do not see it that way. They consider this the opportunity to pass 30-40 cars and bull their way in near the merge point. I have on two occasions been in a backup where there was no blockage in the main lanes, and only a breakdown lane to my right... and here came the daring ones,roaring up the illegal lane, and crowding in somewhere up ahead!
One day, I finally got tired of it and pulled my VW van into the breakdown lane just enough to keep them from passing. Oh my! Interfering with their God-given right to be greedy! Interestingly enough, the driver behind me in the legal lane approved, and left me space, so that when I saw flashing lights of emergency vehicles coming to deal with the accident up ahead (which is what that lane was supposed to be kept free for), I could merge left and let them pass.... of course, a few scofflaws also got by. Then I moved back to the right. When we came to an exit road, I moved back into my lane and watched *2* out of 20-30 cars actually exit. The rest did their zoom & crowd number and I just gave up for the next ten minutes or so till we passed the accident.
Yes, I know, I could have been bumped from the rear... and car # 17 'might' have had someone with a weak bladder & too much beer acting in desperation ... but it all worked out, thanks to the guy behind who cooperated with my efforts.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 04:23 PM

Attach a very powerful generator to your alternator belt and run a ten gauge wire to your back bumper where your hidden electro magnet resides. If a tailgater gets within a foot, hit the ON button.

You may now drive to the nearest police station, bar, whorehouse or destination of your choice and drop off your tailgater who now most likely has an electrically challenged engine that just won't start.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 04:53 PM

Oh right! I can just see the trick becoming widespread and lines of 47 vehicles appearing at a police station..*grin*

My personal scary story: I was sent by an employer around the beltway to pick up some sheets of specially cut glass for a project. I drove a VW van, and the glass was packed carefully and flat on the rear deck.. above the engine.
On the way home, it began to rain, and became moderately heavy. The beltway was 4 lanes wide, and I was in the 2nd lane from the shoulder, lights on as required. Speed limit was 55MPH, but even that seemed excessive with the amount of traffic and the rain. Up behind me came a semi...(truck with 40 ft, trailer)... he evidently did not approve of my speed (right near the 55 limit) and came up close to me and flashed his lights. With the gloom & spray I simply could not see to change lanes safely, and cars were fairly close in all lanes. Because he was so close, it was even harder to see past HIM in either mirror! He would back off a bit, then speed up, trying to bully me into getting out of his way. I tried slowing gradually, hoping he would pass, but then he blew his horn!
After a very tense several minutes I was coming to my exit and HAD to move to the right, so I sped up to what was NOT a safe speed, and found one small space to get over.
   Typing this does NOT convey the sheer panic I had, wondering what he was capable of.

Subject: RE: BS: How Should I Deal With Tailgating?
From: bbc
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 03:56 AM

Trying to drive safely & responsibly & being made to feel vulnerable like that is awful, Bill! I'm glad things turned out ok! So many folks become insulated, within their cars, & lose sight of the humanity of their fellow drivers. Very scary! Wish there was a way to turn that around.

Best,

Barbara