BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 03:04 PM

I really had no intention of feeding your extremely disturbing obsession on this thread - around one quarter of the postings are yours, yet you have not produced one single scrap of hard evidence to make your case.
You have avoided every single piece of hard evidence put before you, or you have dismissed them out of hand, without corroboration.
One thing you have avoided (the subject of this thread) is the Israeli policy of calculating exactly how far they can go in order to starve the Palestinians into submission.
In the past you have denied Israel's massacres, the slaughter of civilized by indiscriminate bombing, chemical weapons, facilitationg the slaughter of 3,000 refugees, destroying the health of %10 of Palestinian children.... every scrap of documented evidence that shows Israel to be the military thugs they are.
Their latest announcement, that they intend to build 3.000 houses on disputed land, y which they will guarantee the continuation of this carnage has shown them so clearly to be the aggressor that even their strongest supporter, the US has baulked at backing them.
I suggest you think on this; Palestine has no standing army, yet they have kept at arms length an aggressive and imperialistically inclined nuclear weapon possessing - the reason it has been able to do this is that Israel realises that it has virtually no world support - zealots like you are few and far between t.b.t.g. (except I don't believe in g)
Get help - and whatever the doctor advises, make sure you stick to his prescription.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 07:25 AM

Fighters and soldiers become brutalised and consumed with hate, and commit war crimes.
Not just Israelis.
In the recent action in Gaza, over a thousand targets were hit in a crowded urban environment from the air, from the sea and from land.

In Syria, thousands would have died.
In Gaza, barely a hundred, perhaps a half of those civilians, and according to Hamas some of those were willing shields and martyrs.

So yes.
But you keep telling us they have no shortage of food because the kindly people bombing and strafing them supply all they want.
Factually correct Don, except they try hard only to harm the war criminals being shielded by civilians.

Israel applies NO RESTRICTIONS ON FOOD, MEDICINE, OR HUMANITARIAN SUPPLIES.
THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF FOOD.
GAZA EXPORTS IT IN HUNDREDS OF TONS.
Far from being a "shoah" or a "holocaust" or "genocide" the population of Gaza is increasing at an extraordinary rate.
It is one of the fastest growing populations in the world (FACT) so things there cannot be that bad.
Can they Don?
Can they Jim?
Can they Stringsinger?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 06:37 AM

""Factually correct Don, except they try hard only to harm the war criminals being shielded.""

The following from IDF sources:-

""Unit: Engineering Corps
Location: Rafah
Year: 2006

During the operations in Gaza, anyone walking around in the street, you shoot at the torso. In one operation in the Philadelphi corridor, anyone walking around at night, you shoot at the torso.

How often were the operations?

Daily. In the Philadelphi corridor, every day.

When you're searching for tunnels, how do people manage to get around -- I mean, they live in the area.

It's like this: You bring one force up to the third or fourth floor of a building. Another group does the search below. They know that while they're doing the search there'll be people trying to attack them. So they put the force up high, so they can shoot at anyone down in the street.

How much shooting was there?

Endless.

Say I'm there, I'm up on the third floor. I shoot at anyone I see?

Yes.

But it's in Gaza, it's a street, it's the most crowded place in the world.

No, no, I'm talking about the Philadelphi corridor.

So that's a rural area?

Not exactly, there's a road, it's like the suburbs, not the center. During operations in the other Gaza neighborhoods it's the same thing. Shooting, during night operations -- shooting.

Is there any kind of announcement telling people to stay indoors?

No.

They actually shot people?

They shot anyone walking around in the street. It always ended with,
"We killed six terrorists today.

" Whoever you shot in the street is "a terrorist."

That's what they say at the briefings?

The goal is to kill terrorists.

What are the rules of engagement?

Whoever's walking around at night, shoot to kill.

During the day, too?

They talked about that in the briefings: whoever's walking around during the day, look for something suspicious. But something suspicious could be a cane.

Unit: Givati Brigade
Location: Gaza Strip
Year: 2008

One company told me they did an operation where a woman was blown up and smeared all over the wall. They kept knocking on her door and there was no answer, so they decided to open it with explosives. They placed them at the door and right at that moment the woman came to open it. Then her kids came down and saw her. I heard about it after the operation at dinner. Someone said it was funny that the kids saw their mother smeared on the wall and everyone cracked up. Another time I got screamed at by my platoon when I went to give the detainees some water from our field kit canteen. They said, "What, are you crazy?" I couldn't see what their problem was, so they said, "Come on, germs." In Nahal Oz, there was an incident with kids who'd been sent by their parents to try to get into Israel to find food, because their families were hungry. They were fourteen- or fifteen-year-old boys, I think. I remember one of them sitting blindfolded and then someone came and hit him, here.
On the legs.
And poured oil on him, the stuff we use to clean weapons.""

They try that hard Keith?

I'm really impressed........NOT!

There is every indication that this is not a few rogues running amok, but a clearly established military policy with full knowledge and sanction of the IDF command and the Israeli government.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 03:36 AM

I want to give the three wise monkeys another chance to answer the question I left thm with.
By lapping up without question all anti-Israel propaganda,and dismissing without consideration Israel's counter claims, they end uplooking very silly.

But you keep telling us they have no shortage of food because the kindly people bombing and strafing them supply all they want.
Factually correct Don, except they try hard only to harm the war criminals being shielded.

Israel applies NO RESTRICTIONS ON FOOD, MEDICINE, OR HUMANITARIAN SUPPLIES.
THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF FOOD.
GAZA EXPORTS IT IN HUNDREDS OF TONS.
Far from being a "shoah" or a "holocaust" or "genocide" the population of Gaza is increasing at an extraordinary rate.
It is one of the fastest growing populations in the world (FACT) so things there cannot be that bad.
Can they Don?
Can they Jim?
Can they Stringsinger?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 02:48 AM

August 2012
The Gaza Strip
1. Economic growth - In 2011 the Gaza Strip enjoyed a 27% growth rate compared to 2010. This growth contributed to a rise of about 23% in the per capita GDP. The growth is mainly the result of a significant acceleration in building activity in the Gaza Strip, due to Israel's easing the restrictions on bringing in building materials (for international projects under the supervision of the PA and the international community) and to the smuggling of building supplies via the tunnels. In the first quarter of 2012, the Gaza Strip showed 6% growth compared to the first quarter of the previous year.

The unemployment rate in 2011 dropped to 29% (the lowest in a decade), compared to 37.8% in 2010.

2. Goods passage at Kerem Shalom crossing - The transfer capacity of the crossing is much bigger than the actual utilization. Israel allows the transfer of all types of goods to the Gaza Strip (except for dual-use goods, including construction materials). In addition, Israel allows the export of agricultural produce from Gaza. In the last winter season (November 2011 through May 2012) about 436 tons of strawberries, 97 tons of tomatoes, 57 tons of cherry tomatoes, 57 tons of peppers and about 9 million units of flowers were exported. Recently a scanner was installed that will facilitate export activity from the Gaza Strip.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 01:14 AM

Don, you are such a silly.
Now you have forgotten why I posted about WTF shipping out truckloads of food.
It was to highlight the FACT that there is no shortage of food in Gaza.
But you keep telling us they have no shortage of food because the kindly people bombing and strafing them supply all they want.
Yes, that is another FACT Don, and if you continue to deny it you are being more than just silly.

Israel applies NO RESTRICTIONS ON FOOD, MEDICINE, OR HUMANITARIAN SUPPLIES.
THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF FOOD.
Far from being a "shoah" or a "holocaust" or "genocide" the population of Gaza is increasing at an extraordinary rate.
It is one of the fastest growing populations in the world (FACT) so things there cannot be that bad.
Can they Don.
Can they Jim.
Can they Stringsinger.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 05:37 PM

""It helps the economy and employs some of them.
A small bit of good.""

But you keep telling us they have no shortage of food because the kindly people bombing and strafing them supply all they want.

That small bit of good will be virtually unnoticeable outside of the few workers needed to harvest the dates and prepare the bars.

Either they need that income to enable them to support themselves or they do not.

If they do, then the rest of the population does too, so what good is being done for them?

And please don't say Israel is looking after them, because if that were the case it would apply to the group producing date bars too.

Either way, your claim that Gaza gets all the food it needs from Israel has more holes than a Gruyere cheese.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 02:43 PM

Don,

You have never responded to the facts I have presented, insisting on making personnel attack on posters and leaving any factual support for your views unsaid. This implies you have no such support.


Jews were in the region before the present Arab Palestinian population.

The Jews were driven out by military force- and thus, BY YOUR STATEMENTS have the right to the land.

Jews were in the region and ethnically cleansed by Arabs.

YOU insist that Israel be held to standards you do not allow to be applied to the Arabs.

Thus you are a bigot.



Simple statement of fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 01:55 PM

Don.
And what that charity pays for it will have what effect on the lives of 1.7 million people?

It helps the economy and employs some of them.
A small bit of good.

The food they ship used to come from Egypt and Turkey.
Now there is surplus food in Gaza that can be used.
More good news.

What are your objections Don?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 10:48 AM

""This is a very good definition of bigotry, applying one set of rules to those you differ with, and another to those who agree with you. YOUR responsibility is not to judge others wrong for what you keep silent about when it benefits yourself.""

O.K. Once more for the mental midget with a reading age of about three.

I have repeatedly stated that I abhor the terrorist actions of both Hamas and Israel.

You post time and again anti Hamas and anti Arab rants, but steadfastly refuse to admit any misdeeds of the Israeli government and military as documented both by Arab and Israeli sources.

It is you Bruce who come off as the bigot, and a particularly stupid one.

But you're in good company here.

Now bugger off. You'll get no more responses from me.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 10:39 AM

""UN World Food Programme 19th Sept. 2012
This week's 76-metric-ton shipment of 1.2 million fortified date bars will benefit some 75,000 school children, through WFP's school meals project in approximately 300 schools in the most food insecure areas of the West Bank.""

Very crafty Keith link to only part of the story and await opportunity.

More than a bit dishonest, but no surprise.

O.K. It will benefit 75,000 children in another part of Palestine, also under Israeli attack.

And what that charity pays for it will have what effect on the lives of 1.7 million people?

Will it feed THEM?   NO!

Will it warm them? NO!

In point of fact the effect will be insignificant.

AND IT STILL ISN'T EXPORT!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 10:38 AM

Take your meds, Bruce - & get help.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 10:31 AM

You are forgetting things again Don.
Just a few hours ago?
"This week's 76-metric-ton shipment of 1.2 million fortified date bars will benefit some 75,000 school children, through WFP's school meals project in approximately 300 schools"

So not one school and not just a few date bars.

Some of the problems at the border ARE caused by Gazans.
They attack the crossings.
I posted about that this morning.
Write yourself notes and stick them on your computer

I have also posted about disputes between Hamas and PA disrupting deliveries, and labour strikes by Palestinians.

There IS a surplus of food in Gaza, because it is not only WTF supplying Gaza.
The UN WTF says there is a surplus and would not be shipping food out otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 10:31 AM

""Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 07:36 AM

One school? No further comment needed.

The nutritious datebars eaten by children at schools in the West Bank used to be shipped in from Egypt or even further afield. Now they are now being produced much closer to where they are needed: in Gaza. The result is that the local economy is being supported and kids in the West Bank are eating biscuits produced by fellow Palestinians. The first convoy of datebars recently made the crossing from Gaza.""

Ah, Bless him. Too tired to read exactly what I posted and save himself the trouble of typing the exact same out again.

But he did apparently miss my response, so here goes:-

Sounds good! Support for the local economy, though please note ""support for fellow Palestinians"". Not really export, is it?

I should have added, very little support, for a very local economy.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 10:30 AM

" I don't think you shall go to the Ball after all!"
Don't think I want to if I have to dance with Zionist apologists.
You know as well as I do that Keith is out to prove that Israeli atrocities are having no effect on Palestinian health or well being.
He is a fanatic - while you seem content to lurk in the shadows until someone point that fact out.
Shame on yourself, your bullshit fails to impress
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 10:21 AM

""So Don, Israel allows food, medicine and humanitarian supplies into Gaza without restriction.
Aid agencies export surplus food from Gaza where once they had to bring it in from Egypt or beyond.
Proven facts.

Building materials are supplied to aid agencies in Gaza, but not to Hamas to build missile bunkers.
If Hamas would call off the war, restrictions could be removed.""

And the very first aid agency to which you link states that:- ""Access to Gaza is a main concern to WFP and a significant challenge under normal circumstances.""

I don't think that the challenge is due to Gazan action. They aren't in control of the borders. They get shot if they approach them.

Give me your best estimate Keith, of how the date bars feeding children at one school for a year affect the economy of a nation of 1.7 million.

And how does WFP managing to supply food to ""Upwards of 60,000 people"" amount to the 1.7 million having a food surplus.

And how does passing out a few truckloads of date bars to another part of Palestine become "export".

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 09:50 AM

GregF,

I am not the one who states that being "Black and a Democrat" is the same as being a "Dumb ni**er"

AS YOU HAVE STATED.


If you have nothing valid to say ABOUT THE FACTS, I suggest you put your head back up your ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 09:42 AM

Ah, jeez, looks like Beardie's branching out and attacking folks other than me with his obsessive BS. Perhaps his dosage needs to be increased.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 08:37 AM

Don,

You stated:
"Interesting, no end, how those promoting Israeli lies descend very quickly into personal vituperation when their arguments fail to deceive."

I stated:"
""So you have not noticed how most of those who support YOUR viewpoint have been posting???
Your silence on your fellow Hamas supporter's attacking the people posting is obvious- and of no credit to your own standards.""

You reply:
"Once again a comment from cloud cuckoo land.
I am not responsible for the actions of others who may share my view or not, and I can't alter them."


Yet you choose to complain about the postings of others you disagree with, AND HAVE NO RESPONSIBILTY FOR, while taking no fault with those who agree with you. This is a very good definition of bigotry, applying one set of rules to those you differ with, and another to those who agree with you. YOUR responsibility is not to judge others wrong for what you keep silent about when it benefits yourself.

Therefore, I call you what you are- a bigot.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 08:24 AM

Let them eat cake - now where have I heard that before?···
.,,.
Not sure that quite so convincing a quote to adduce as you might believe, Jim. Many consider Marie-Antoinette to have been a much maligned and unfortunate woman. Can anyone really maintain that the [literally] Terrible régime that replaced the 'ancienne' one of which she was part was a phenomenon entirely to be welcomed as any considerable credit to the history of humanity? The trivialising implied, of the genuine achievements of the occupants of Gaza to which Keith has drawn attention, is unworthy of you. I don't think you shall go to the Ball after all!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 08:12 AM

UN World Food Programme 19th Sept. 2012
This week's 76-metric-ton shipment of 1.2 million fortified date bars will benefit some 75,000 school children, through WFP's school meals project in approximately 300 schools in the most food insecure areas of the West Bank.
http://www.wfp.org/news/news-release/date-bars-produced-gaza-their-way-west-bank-school-children

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 08:08 AM

"The nutritious datebars"
Let them eat cake - now where have I heard that before?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 07:36 AM

One school? No further comment needed.

The nutritious datebars eaten by children at schools in the West Bank used to be shipped in from Egypt or even further afield. Now they are now being produced much closer to where they are needed: in Gaza. The result is that the local economy is being supported and kids in the West Bank are eating biscuits produced by fellow Palestinians. The first convoy of datebars recently made the crossing from Gaza.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 05:54 AM

So Don, Israel allows food, medicine and humanitarian supplies into Gaza without restriction.
Aid agencies export surplus food from Gaza where once they had to bring it in from Egypt or beyond.
Proven facts.

Building materials are supplied to aid agencies in Gaza, but not to Hamas to build missile bunkers.
If Hamas would call off the war, restrictions could be removed.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 05:18 AM

From Keith's links to the aid agency WFP website.

""During the recent conflict in Gaza, WFP provided food assistance to more than 800 families who lost their homes. Food was also provided to another 11,000 people who fled their homes to seek safety at local shelters. Regularly scheduled food distributions continued through the conflict for upwards of 60,000 people.""

60,000 from 1.7 million.

""The nutritious datebars eaten by children at schools in the West Bank used to be shipped in from Egypt or even further afield. Now they are now being produced much closer to where they are needed: in Gaza. The result is that the local economy is being supported and kids in the West Bank are eating biscuits produced by fellow Palestinians. The first convoy of datebars recently made the crossing from Gaza.""

Sounds good! Support for the local economy, though please note ""support for fellow Palestinians"". Not really export, is it?

""From Gaza To The West Bank: The Logistics Behind A School Meal""

""From Gaza to the West Bank, follow the transport system set up by WFP that not only supplies the food for one year to a school in the West Bank, but also supports the economy in Gaza.""

One school? No further comment needed.

""WFP welcomes the ceasefire agreement that guarantees the opening of all crossings for the movement of people and transfer of goods. Access to Gaza is a main concern to WFP and a significant challenge under normal circumstances.""

Normal circumstances being what pertained before the latest round of killing. A significant challenge for the aid agency, in getting movement, so no restrictions there then?

All this from your own links Keith. Perhaps if you read right through the texts?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 05:16 AM

Thank you, Don. Much appreciated.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 04:54 AM

Mike, Thank you for the reminder. I now remember being amused by the odd terminology.

You have as promised my unreserved apology.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 04:51 AM

In fact Keith, it is dishonest to use the term "export", which implies a profit making trade outside ones borders.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 04:49 AM

""UN World Food Programme helping Gaza by exporting its surplus food to West Bank Palestinians.


and
Biscuits From Gaza Feed West Bank Schoolkids
The nutritious datebars eaten by children at schools in the West Bank used to be shipped in from Egypt or even further afield. Now they are now being produced much closer to where they are needed: in Gaza. The result is that the local economy is being supported and kids in the West Bank are eating biscuits produced by fellow Palestinians. The first convoy of datebars recently made the crossing from Gaza.""

I'm talking about the lack of nourishment of one point seven MILLION people, due to being unable to support themselves because of the Israeli destruction of their factories and other infrastructure, and you are talking about a few truckloads of date bars being exported, not to a foreign market, but to another part of the same country, equally disadvantaged by illegal Israeli occupation.

I don't know what you are smoking mate, but you need to quit.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 03:00 AM

Don.
He bangs on about food being exported by aid agencies from Gaza.

I ask you, how can any credence be given to the idea that Gazans would be malnourished and still export food, when the infrastucture has been so radically destroyed by Israel's "proportionate" flattening with bombs, shells and bullets, that Gazans no longer have the means to earn, which means they can't afford sufficient food, which takes us back to the restrictions on building slowing the whole process to a crawl.

I provided proof in this thread on 12th November.
It is not my fault if you forget things.
Perhaps it is not your fault either, but ask for details before accusing me of lying.


UN World Food Programme helping Gaza by exporting its surplus food to West Bank Palestinians.


and
"Biscuits From Gaza Feed West Bank Schoolkids
The nutritious datebars eaten by children at schools in the West Bank used to be shipped in from Egypt or even further afield. Now they are now being produced much closer to where they are needed: in Gaza. The result is that the local economy is being supported and kids in the West Bank are eating biscuits produced by fellow Palestinians. The first convoy of datebars recently made the crossing from Gaza."
http://www.wfp.org/node/3465/4847/310191

http://www.wfp.org/node/3465/4847/226859

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 01:26 AM

But my idea of 'scathing', Don is something like "useless idiot" or "unpleasant organism" or "scoundrel" or at worst "swine". I honestly sedulously avoid using the [what are celled sometimes] 'taboo words', which so many thoughtlessly indulge in on this forum. I did when I first joined because it was the idiom, regrettably IMO, in which discourse is carried on here. But then I realised that it actually drags down the whole tone & atmosphere, and the level of argument, and resolved a couple of years ago that I was going to use it no more. So, yes, Don, I can honestly say that, except for that one injudicious lapse when I tried but failed to make a joke of it, I have used no such ~~ not even of or to R Bridge when he was being at his most aggressively & mindlessly doltish.

And that truly is the fact of the matter. I say again, if you don't believe me, SEARCH MY POSTS.

Regards

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 07:51 PM

I am saddened by the fact that such a terrible world event is occurring and instead of a rational discussion, it has deteriorated into ad hominem.

I am no supporter of violence from any quarter including Hamas but the violence
is disproportionately on the Israeli side under the pretense of "defense".

At the root of the problem is religion, not economics or cultural attitudes as Judaism and Zionism at the extreme is pitted against Islam at the extreme.

Still, the justification for the misappropriation of land by Israel is known throughout almost every country in the world. The bloodletting by Israel, the punishing autocratic father figure, the technologically advanced use of weaponry and the total intolerance that this conveys is evident.

There have been too many innocent Palestinian children murdered under the pretext of "defense". OTOH, relatively few Israeli casualties of women and children by comparison.

It's interesting to me how the blinders are put on when dealing with this issue as if doubling down on a "side" will solve a problem big enough to trigger another world war.

Moynihan: "You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts."

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 06:11 PM

""So you have not noticed how most of those who support YOUR viewpoint have been posting???

Your silence on your fellow Hamas supporter's attacking the people posting is obvious- and of no credit to your own standards.""

Once again a comment from cloud cuckoo land.

I am not responsible for the actions of others who may share my view or not, and I can't alter them.

I responded to Keith's personal insults in kind.

Live with it!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 06:07 PM

Does the name Richard Bridge ring any bells Mike?

I'm sure that on at least two occasions you have been, shall we say somewhat scathing, though quite possibly with some provocation.

I can't be arsed to wade through all those different threads, but I believe you to be an honest man, so tell me I'm wrong, and you'll get the apology.

I might just be motivated to check though.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 10:58 AM

Come on now, Don. Typing finger where your big mouth is, please. You know that all you have to do is click on my name at top of this post & all my posted thread messages will be revealed, in reverse date order. Search diligently from 1 Jan 11 onwards, and find two [count them: 2] or more instances of the sort of objectionable language we are both referring to, & I will personally reward you with a nice red apple.

Go on. I am waiting...

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 09:09 AM

'but I have seen you react similarly once or twice.'
.,,.
I repeat my challenge made above, Don. Find me more than that one injudicious and ill-expressed example, which I have already admitted, of any term or vocative I have employed which could have distressed Terence Rattigan's Aunt Edna, within the past 2 years, & I shall climb right down & apologise most profusely and embarrassedly. Until than, stop making baseless accusations which you can't justify; they reflect far more ill on you than on me.
The worse terms of abuse, apart from that one instance, which you will find within that period are, perhaps, 'swine', or 'scoundrel'.

Put up or shut up.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 08:41 AM

Don,

"Interesting, no end, how those promoting Israeli lies descend very quickly into personal vituperation when their arguments fail to deceive."



So you have not noticed how most of those who support YOUR viewpoint have been posting???

Your silence on your fellow Hamas supporter's attacking the people posting is obvious- and of no credit to your own standards.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 07:02 AM

"Not entirely clear if you think this a good thing or a bad thing, Jim?"
Why on earth should I consider it bad?
im Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 07:01 AM

""Now really, would you stand by the exclusivity in this regard which the tone of that post implies. Honest now?

The tone of that post related to folk who start the slanging, in this case Keith.

My responses, I honestly believe were entirely reasonable as I believe that if someone punches me I have a right to defend with a punch.

Your mileage may vary, but I have seen you react similarly once or twice.

Would you deny me what you allow yourself? Honest now?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 06:40 AM

'though I have to say you are someone who regularly apologises when you are shown as being wrong'·····

Not entirely clear if you think this a good thing or a bad thing, Jim?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 06:35 AM

Don't feel moved to comment specifically on this last one, Don. But must again point out that I feel you were being - let us say - ah - perhaps a bit - ah - disingenuous, in implying that it was only those who were on the Israeli side of the matter who would evereverever indulge in such locutions, while you lot were [as you might yourself put it] 'squeaky clean'. I remind you yet again of the post of yours which started this ~~

"Interesting, no end, how those promoting Israeli lies descend very quickly into personal vituperation when their arguments fail to deceive"

Now really, would you stand by the exclusivity in this regard which the tone of that post implies. Honest now?

Comments, Don?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 06:25 AM

Incidentally, a refusal to allow the West Bank situation to be discussed here IS in itself dishonest.

The West Bank is an integral part of Palestine, and no resolution will be reached while Israel continues to annexe more and more of it.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 06:18 AM

""An admitted slight lapse, I suppose; but really quite a mild expletive as they go, surely? ~~ Far less offensive, by convention, than the female equivalent, would you not agree?""

Oh QUITE, Mike!

Which he got round to in his recent description of me.

"", Chinese and every other country's media are scrutinising the whole thing microscopically and how do you imagine Israel could keep it quiet if they said no restrictions and still restricted, you twat!?"" (my emphasis)

And while he slithered out fom under by claiming he hadn't included me with the "knobs" (YEAH, RIGHT, we all believe that don't we?), he can't do that here as this one WAS directly aimed at me.

As for "NO restrictions, well I dealt with that one in my last post. I WILL resond to Keith A exactly as he deals with me.

Comments Mike?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 06:13 AM

I was extremely heartened this morning to read that there has been a proposal here in Ireland to boycott all Israeli goods as a protest to the proposed settlements, followed by a quick response by the Israeli ambassador.
Maybe granting Israel Apartheid South African status is a way forward.

Sorry Mike - misread - "I will abjectly apologise." - though I have to say you are someone who regularly apologises when you are shown as being wrong.
"Surely you and Don did not feel included?"
Did I indicate in any way that I did??? Certainly didn't mean to.
BTW - most of what you have just described as "fair comment" is a form of lying.
Jim Carroll

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 06:06 AM

""Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 04:39 AM

No.
Keith does not lie.
I would always rather lose, and so should you.
All the other stuff, fair comment.""

Let's examine more closely that profession of complete honesty, from him who continually claims "No restrictions on food or building materials"

""Not true Jim.
Building materials are allowed in under aid agency supervision.
It is just not given to Hamas to make bomb proof missile stores with.""

That is a restriction, which also prevents the building of bomb proof shelters to cut down on the prolific Israeli "collateral damage", which of course is Gazan men, women and children, whose deaths and injuries Keith regards as the acceptable price of advancing Israel's acquisitive ambitions.

""Malnutrition due to food shortages, directly identified to the blockade by the UN and Amnesty, is present in 10% of Palestinian children.""

To which, Keith's response is that all aid agencies are wrong and that he knows better based on assurances from St Netanyahu.

He bangs on about food being exported by aid agencies from Gaza.

I ask you, how can any credence be given to the idea that Gazans would be malnourished and still export food, when the infrastucture has been so radically destroyed by Israel's "proportionate" flattening with bombs, shells and bullets, that Gazans no longer have the means to earn, which means they can't afford sufficient food, which takes us back to the restrictions on building slowing the whole process to a crawl.

Sorry Keith, but if you set yourself up as an honest reporter, you need to have more convincing backing.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 05:35 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 10:21 AM

I could be wrong about bomb casings.



And Jim, the epithet "knobs" was directed only at those who lap up propaganda.
Surely you and Don did not feel included?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 05:34 AM

Slightly exercised by your last post, Jim. In what way do you perceive me as having 'apologised', and for what?

Sorry all, as Jim said, for keeping this bit of drift going; but I am genuinely puzzled as to Jim's meaning here.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 05:26 AM

"I would always rather lose,"
I meant to add - he never admits to being wrong nor apologises when he's caught red-handed, and sneers at those who do as 'grovelling" - please note Mike as you apparently fall into that description.
Sorry all, had no intention of interrupting the proceedings with all this, but couldn't resist MtheGM's invitation to do so.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 05:23 AM

At present, the worst enemy Israel has is the Likud Party and its leader (Netanyahu) who needs his fucking head read. He is an asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 05:21 AM

An admitted slight lapse, I suppose; but really quite a mild expletive as they go, surely? ~~ Far less offensive, by convention, than the female equivalent, would you not agree?