What is Zydeco?

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Neil D
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 08:10 PM

From: GUEST,Don Wise - PM
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 11:30 AM

Didn't Zydeco start with Amade Ardoin(1896-1941) and Dennis McGee who blended Cajun songs with blues and jazz?

Actually Zydeco is a blending of the earlier Creole dance music often called "La La" with elements of Rhythm and Blues. According to Wikipedia:
Amédé Ardoin made the first recordings of Creole music in 1928. This Creole music served as a foundation for what later became known as zydeco.
These were the recordings on which Dennis McGee played backing fiddle to Amade's vocals and accordion. I'm sure someone here may know better but as far as I've been able to discern these may be the first integrated musical recordings. Nevertheless Amade Ardoin was a major influence on both Creole and Cajun musical genres and should be much better known than he is today.
He was also a tragic victim of brutal racism.
Here is a heart wrenching account by Alan Lomax and others of the Death of Amede Ardoin.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 10:55 AM

Hmmm, the explanation about les haricots that I heard in some documentary about Preservation Hall was that the expression "couper les haricots" (cut beans), referring to taking the string off the string beans (haricots verts) and roughly pronounced in Africanized French as coopay lay zahdeeco [because of the liaison], meant to dance up a storm, and that's where the word pronounced zahdeeco if you have a French accent and spelled Zydeco backformed for the music to which you dance that storm up.

I love American syntax.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 08:56 AM

No.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 11:30 AM

Didn't Zydeco start with Amade Ardoin(1896-1941) and Dennis McGee who blended Cajun songs with blues and jazz?

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 04:11 PM

Azizi, I stand corrected. I knew about the African origins of many of those words, including (of course) gumbo and goobers.

Ever since I read and understood that insight about how syntax and grammar can exist deeper in the mind, and therefore survive longer, than vocabulary ~ since digesting that idea, I can't pass up every opportunity to try explaining it to anyone and everyone.

I think this phenomemon is most evident in cultures where the downtrodden/defeated population is slowest to adopt the oppressor's language, and you see several consecutive generations speaking their own "dying" language within their own community while learning the boss-man's tongue only very gradually, just enough to follow orders. People continue to think, and to formulate their sentences, in the patterns of the old language, even as they slowly change over to the new language's vocabulary and gradually forget the words from their parents' and grandparents' language. (Most of the words, anyway.)

This quite obviously happened among the earliest African-Americans bound in slavery, to the Irish oppressed in their own country, and (albeit to a lesser extent) to the Cajun people in Louisiana.

What eventually develops is a special, unique brand of the "new" language (in all three of these cases, English) that is very clearly characteristic of the ethnic/cultural/national group in question, and which "sounds" either incorrect, or highly poetic, or both, to outsiders.

Oh yeah ~ back to Zydeco.

Many of Clifton Chenier's most successful songs were direct translation of Fats Domono hits into the French language. Once upon a time I could rattle off a list of titles, but can't think of any at the moment. Whether these particular songs qwualify as true "Zydeco" or not depends upon how strictly one defines the term, but they're not all that much different from even the "purest" examples of Zydeco.

(Incidentally, FWIW, Antoine "Fats" Domino comes from a French-speaking Creole family that moved to New Orleans from rural south-central Louisiana only a few years before he was born.)

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:43 AM

Got me ticket to see Marty Wilde and when he sings Sea Of Love, I will be thinking Swamp Pop and Poppagator :-)

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:35 PM

Here's that hyperlink:

http://slaveryinamerica.org/history/hs_es_languages.htm

The Impact of African Languages on American English
Joseph E. Holloway, Ph.D.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:31 PM

Some African words have survived in the US for centuries. But African words did not have to have survived among people of African descent in the Americas {including the Caribbean} from the 17th century to date since Africans-both enslaved and free-came to the United States and the Caribbean from 1619 or earlier. And after slavery was abolished in the United States, and the Caribbean, Africans have continued to come to these nations. So It is therefore possible for traditional African words to have entered the English language at various times from the 17th century to date.

Here's some "English language" words that are attributed from a traditional African language:

"Among the many other African words adopted by white southerners and later assimilated into American culture are the following: bowdacious, bozo (stupid), cooter (turtle), goober (peanut), hullabaloo, hully-gully, juke(box), moola (money), pamper, Polly Wolly-Doodle, wow, uh-huh, unh-unh, daddy, buddy, tote, banjo, kola (as in Coca-Cola), elephant, gorilla, gumbo, okra, tater, and turnip.

...

The following is a selected glossary of words used by Americans that are derived from African terms or usage.

adobe Rooted in Twi (Akan) culture, where the same word means palm tree leaves or grass used for roof covering.

bad The use of a negative word to mean its opposite or to mean very good, used especially in the emphatic form baad, as in Michael Jackson's song "I'm baad!" Similar words are "mean," used to imply satisfying, fine, or attractive; "wicked", which means to be excellent or capable. This use of negative words to mean something extremely positive is rooted in similar Africanism, for example the Mandingo (Bambara) words a ka nyi ko-jugu, used to mean "it's very good!" (literally translated as "it is good badly!"), as well as the Mandingo (Gambia) words a nyinata jaw-ke, used to say "she is very beautiful!" Also, the West African English (Sierra Leone) words gud baad, which means "it's very good!"

bad-eye Threatening, hateful glance. A common African-American colloquialism. Rooted in the Mandingo word nyejugu to mean a hateful glance (literally giving one the "bad eye").

bad-mouth In Gullah, the word is used to mean slander, abuse, gossip. The Mandingo words da-jugu and the Hausa words mugum-baki have the same meanings, that is to slander or abuse.

bambi Derived from the Bantu word mubambi, meaning one who lies down in order to hide; specifically, it refers to the concealed position of an antelope fawn (as in Walt Disney's film Bambi).

bamboula African drum used in New Orleans during the 19th century. Also, a vigorous style of New Orleans dancing in the early 20th century. A "drum" in early jazz use. Derived from the African word bambula, which means to beat, hit or strike a surface, a drum.
banana Wolof word for fruit, was first recorded in 1563, and entered British English in the 17th century via Spanish and Portuguese.
banjo Kimbundu mbanza, which means a stringed musical instrument; also similar to the Jamaican English word banja and Brazilian Portuguese banza.

bogus Means deceit or fraud. Similar to West African and Caribbean English bo, ba, the Hausa words boko, boko-boko, which also mean deceit and fraud; the West African English word (Sierra Leone) bogo-bogo, and the Louisiana-French word bogue, which also means fake, fraudulent, and phony. The ending of the word "bogus" is part of the words hocus pocus.

booboo Derived from Bantu mbuku, meaning stupid, blundering act; error, blunder. Common nickname found in Black English "

Source:
http://slaveryinamerica.org/history/hs_es_languages.htm

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 01:51 PM

Very interesting PoppaGator. That what makes Mudcat great.

I am going to see hopefully Marty Wilde at Grimsby soon and hopefully he will sing Sea Of Love

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: rock chick
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 12:55 PM

Zydeco - is a type of Afro-American dance music. Its a wonderful lively music, recently saw a band /group and loved every single minute of it.

rc

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 12:42 PM

Just went back and read more of this thread than I did yesterday, when I just perused the 2007 messages about "swamp pop."

1) To Reggie Miles, if you're still around to read this: I knew those guys in the jug band fairly well (although I can't remember "Washboard Jackson"'s real first name ~ I can picture him, though!) In fact, they played at least one private party in my backyard on Whitney Avenue in Algiers, as "opening act" for my kid brother's rock band, Satisfaction (which made several such appearances). One of our biggest parties there was my son Cassidy's 2d birthday, August 28, 1981 ~ if you were there, it would be an amazing coincidence.

2) My understanding of the definition of "jockamo" as "jester," etc., is that it comes from the Italian "Giacomo" (same pronunciation), a common jester-figure in commedia del arte and in Italian Carnivale traditions, notably those of Venice. The Italian immigrants who came to New Orleans were almost exclusively from Sicily ~ pretty far away from Venice, both geographically and culturally ~ and so may or may not have incorporated "Giacomo" into the melting pot of New Orleans' Mardi Gras culture, where African Americans could possibly have picked it up. I think it is at least equally likely that the Mardi Gras Indians' "jockamo [fee nah nay]" has nothing to do with Giacomo the jester, and that the common pronunciation is just a coincidence. Homonyms, in other words.

3) It's a long time since the last slave ship crossed the Atlantic, which is why I have my doubts about any Yoruba vocabulary having survived in the US to the present day. I do recognize that a number of West African syntactical constructs and grammatical forms still persist around here, just like such French transliterations as "making groceries" (from "faire marche).

However, I don't believe specific vocabulary words survive as long as speech patterns, which are actually verbalizations of thought patterns. When a family's first language changes, the youngsters adopt the new language but they learn it from parents who are still thinking primarily in the old language, and transliterating word-for-word to create new constructs and idioms unfamilar to native speakers of the new language.

Many of the characteristic patterns of African-American English ("Ebonics") come straight out of West Africa. One obvious example is possessive-by-proximity; that is, omission of the "apostrophe-s" in informal speech.

You can see the same thing in Ireland. The vast majority of the people who have long since adopted English as their first language still persist ~ several generations later ~ in using Irish/Gaelic syntax with their English vocabularies. Examples: The common use of the phrase "in it"; use of the reflexive "himself" where Brits, Aussies, Yanks and other English speakers would simply say "him"; and the avoidance of uttering a simple "yes" or "no," preferring instead to respond in brief declarative sentances like "I did," "He did not," etc. (The old language, apparently, did not have words for "yes" and "no.")

For the above reasons, I think it's more likely for a word to have traveled back to modern Nigeria from Louisiana than for that word to have had its origins in Yoruba and survived for centuries here in the states. Just my opinion.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 12:01 PM

Sorry, I didn't get back to this thread last night. I still have no further examples.

The Villan was correct on both counts: the song "Sea of Love" I mentioned as an example of swamp pop was indeed Phil Phillips's recording, and the same for Dale & Grace's "Leaving It All Up to You."

J.P. Baptiste's nom du disque is, of course, a perfect example of the typical swamp-pop stage name, too.

Most of the great swamp-pop recordings were produced by one Huey Meaux and came out of a single small studio down in southwest Louisiana: "Gold [something] Records" Sorry, my memory isn't working well, and I'm not taking the time to do research. I don't think it's Gold Star, or Gold Bond, but something like that. (Maybe it *is* "Gold Star" -- ??) I'm also unsure whether it was located in Lake Charles, Morgan City, or where...

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:43 PM

It's also worth trying this one, which has cajun, zydeco, swamp pop and more:

http://www.kbon.com

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 12:20 AM

And was it Dale & Grace I'm Leaving It All Up to You

This looks like a good radio link if you can get it

http://www.cajunradio.org/top40swamp.html

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 12:17 AM

All these years I thot it was a fishing reel.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 11:57 PM

That would be great Poppagator.

Sea Of Love (which happens to be a very great favourite of mine, but by Marty Wilde in the UK) was written by Phil Phillips (born John Phillip Baptiste). Is that who you meant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Phillips

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 05:47 PM

"Swamp pop" comes from Louisiana, but it's really quite different from the more tradition-based "roots" genres mentioned in this thread (Zydeco, Cajun, even "swamp blues.)

The term is generally applied to 50s-era rock/pop performed and recorded by south-Louisiana artists and entrepreneurs who were trying to sound "mainstream" and tap into the nationwide teenage market ~ emphatically not embracing their Cajun/Creole roots. I think that an innate musicality and "good-timey" feeling comes through that betrays their heritage despite every effort to produce "All-American" radio hits. The genre, such as it is, can also be characterized by simple production values and (often) some fairly strong harmony singing.

Pretty much without exception, the artists' real family names were French names unfamiliar to Americans outside south Louisiana, but they routinely adopted Anglo-sounding stage names (always simple and hopefully memorable, usually alliterative).

The only way I know of to convey the shared characteristics of "swamp pop" songs is simply to give examples; listing some titles and srtists will help, but only for those old enough to remember hearing the songs. For others, you'd have to be able to listen to several recordings, and then draw your own conclusions.

I'll try to look up some examples laster tonight at home and post them, hopefully including audio links if possible. Right now, at work, the only two I can think of off the top of my head are "Sea of Love" and "I'm Leaving It All Up to You," and I can't even remember the artists' names.

Frankie Ford's "Sea Cruise" was a huge hit that almost fits the definition of "swamp pop." It's a good example of the general sound and feeling. However, Frankie was (and still is) a New Orleanian, not from out in Cajun-land, and I'm pretty sure that his real last name is Italian rather than French.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:56 AM

melodeonboy - when you do a link, you need to make sure the http:// is at the front of the link, otherwise it won't work on Mudcat.

Anyway I have updated the link and thanks for taking the trouble to alert me to the link.

http://www.cajunuk.co.uk/

I will have a look later in the day.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 07:39 PM

Villan: have a shufti at this site:

www.cajunuk.co.uk

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 03:15 PM

Here is their Myspace website
http://www.myspace.com/joeletaxiandthezydecoband

And this is yours Sally
http://joeletaxi.co.uk/newrelease.htm

Thanks for posting Sally

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: GUEST,sally the lemonade lady cookieless and lazy
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 02:52 PM

http://joeletaxi.co.uk/newrelease.htm try this

sal

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 02:19 AM

Thanks for that everybody.

From what I have read, I like both styles of Swamp music. I just love I'm a king bee by the Rolling Stones.

Scoville
Funny enough, the band i am interested in is R Cajun who are mentioned on the site you put a link for Swamp Music Website.

I have listened and watched vidoes of them and just love what they do.

Ah well lets hope it works out and R Cajun come to my neck of the woods :-)

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 09:03 PM

For the benefit of those on dial-up {or those who don't like to click on hyperlinks}, I think this short blurp that's the 2nd hyperlink tht Scoville provided should be posted here:

"Swamp blues, a minor but interesting genre, originated in the Baton Rouge area where musicians like Slim Harpo, Lightnin' Slim, Lonesome Sundown, and Lazy Lester developed a unique, rocking, Cajun-influenced blues style, captured after 1948 on Excello records. It appealed particularly to British rockers of the 1960s (the Rolling Stones covered Harpo's "I'm a King Bee," for instance, and the Kinks recorded Lazy Lester's "I'm a Lover Not a Fighter") and eventually contributed to the development of zydeco. Among the few surviving exemplars is "swamp boogie queen" Katie Webster. Our selection comes from Lazy Lester's Harp & Soul album, titled "Alligator Shuffle" and available on King Snake Records."

http://www.unc.edu/depts/csas/socult/music/swamp.htm

**

-snip-

Btw, and definitely off-topic, I find the title King Snake Records an interesting one for a blues record company. Here's more on King Snake Records which advertising itself as "Capturing the Groove! Music from the Florida swamps"

The reason why I find the title interesting & fitting is that Blues is so heavily associated with Southern African Americans and so is voodoo. What does voodoo have to do with any of this?

Well, imo, the name "KingSnake" is a reference to the importance of snakes in voodoo beliefs & ceremonies. Snakes were {are} important in the traditional West African religion of the Yoruba {Nigeria, Benin} religion of Vodu {also known as Ifa and Orisha/vodu} and some other traditional African religions not to mention other traditional non-African religions [think "serpents" and "dragons"]. In the United States, in the Caribbean, and in Latin America, the religion of Orisha/Vodu took the forms of Candomble, Santeria, Lucumi, and "voodoo/hoodoo".

See this post about the Snake deity Damballah in the Mudcat thread "Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture thread.cfm?threadid=100016#2000409

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:29 PM

What Scoville said.

**

Here's some info from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Louisiana

..."Acadiana music
Acadiana has five main musical genres - Cajun music, Creole music, swamp blues, swamp pop, and zydeco. These historically-rooted genres, with unique rhythms and personalities, have been transformed with modern sounds and instruments.

Swamp pop

Main article: Swamp pop
Swamp pop came about in the mid 1950s. With the Cajun dance and musical conventions in mind, nationally popular rock, pop, country, and R&B songs were re-recorded, sometimes in French. Swamp Pop is more of a combination of many influences, and the bridge between Zydeco, New Orleans second line, and rock and roll. The song structure is pure rock and roll, the rhythms are distinctly New Orleans based, the chord changes, vocals and inflections are R&B influenced, and the lyrics are sometimes French.

Swamp blues

Main article: Swamp blues
A sparse but funky sub-genre of blues that flourished in the 1960s, swamp blues was centered in Crowley, Louisiana — home of Jay Miller's Excello Records, which recorded Louisiana-based swamp blues acts including Slim Harpo, Lazy Lester, Lightinin' Slim, and Katie Webster"...

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: GUEST,Scoville
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:09 PM

I don't know anything about this site other than it's UK. Maybe they can help.

I'm not sure what you mean by "what about the swamp part?". There is swamp-rock and swamp-blues, which are Louisiana versions of rock/pop and blues, respectively. Swamp-rock would be rock with country & Cajun music influences (CCR and Tony Joe White are often cited as examples, as is Lynyrd Skynyrd. My friend calls this the Seventies Southern Rock Anthem phenomenon). Swamp-blues is another subtype of blues, as opposed to Delta blues or Piedmont blues.

Here, this is kind of interesting.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 07:21 PM

Interesting thread this. I am currently involved in the possibilty of booking a Cajun/Zydeco/Swamp Band in the UK

What do you guys know about the Swamp part?

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 07:05 PM

Paul,

Did you grow up in Chiswick by any chance ?

Curious greetings,
me

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 12:19 AM

Here's a high quality Zydeco video:

Queen Ida and the Bon Temps Zydeco Band : Rosa Majeur

The great Queen Ida not only sings and plays the accordian, but she also talks about how the Zydeco music genre was created.

See this biography of Queen Ida written by Sandra Brennan for
http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/artistbio.asp?CTR=136701

"Queen Ida a.k.a. Queen Ida & Her Zydeco Band, Queen Ida & The Bon Temps Zydeco

Queen Ida was the first female accordion player to lead a zydeco band. Favoring a 31-button accordion, she is noted for her melodic playing, and for focusing on the treble side of her instrument, which makes her style similar to Mexican playing styles. Though like many other zydeco artists of the '80s, her music was well grounded in Creole traditions, she also integrates Caribbean, Cajun (with the addition of a fiddle to her Bon Temps Zydeco Band), blues and other genres. She came to music rather late in life.

Born Ida Guillory to a musically talented family in Lake Charles, LA, she learned to play accordion from her mother after she spent a few years learning the piano. Her family moved to Beaumont, TX, when she was ten and eight years later moved to San Francisco. Her first language is French, and wherever they went, took their Creole culture and music with them. But while music was important to Guillory, during her young adult years while busy raising her family, she only performed for social occasions. She briefly attended nursing school but left during her first pregnancy. When her children were all school-aged, she became a part-time bus driver. As they grew, Guillory's friends began more strongly encouraging her to perform publicly.

In the early '70s, she began performing with Barbary Coast Band and with the Playboys. She was in demand, not only because of her talent, but also because female accordion players were a rarity. She got her stage name in 1975 during a Mardis Gras celebration in the Bay Area. There she was formally crowned "Queen of the Zydeco Accordion and Queen of Zydeco Music." The following year she and her band played at the Monterey Jazz and Blues Festival. She also signed to GNP/Crescendo Records, a Los Angeles-based jazz label.

Despite her popularity, Queen Ida never felt music was stable enough to support her children and so continued bus driving until her youngest daughter went to school. After that Ida began touring more frequently. In 1978, John Ullman became her agent. He helped make her internationally known. In 1979 she was nominated for a Bay Area Music Award. Though Taj Mahal won it, he arranged a two-week European tour for her. She continued recording and touring through the 1980s. Because she feels she and the band sound best live, most of her albums are recorded while she tours.

In 1988, Queen Ida toured Japan, becoming the first zydeco artist to do so. She toured Africa the following year for the State Department and in 1990 went to Australia and New Zealand. Queen Ida has appeared in one feature film, Rumblefish, and a documentary about Louisiana music, J'ai Ete au Bal. She has also performed on television shows ranging from Austin City Limits to Saturday Night Live. For many, Queen Ida is not only an excellent musician, she is also a fine example of how a determined middle-aged woman can still find success in a youth-obsessed culture."

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 06:01 PM

You need amplification to be heard over the washboard.

Skiffle groups didn't use electric instruments.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 06:13 PM

The thing is, Jack--Clevland Chenier's washboard was amplified--

I heard him back in the 70's, and was listening to punk bands at the same time--and even with the amplification, the noise level wasn't even close to the punks--and the music was better--

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 05:41 PM

I am inter alia a washboard player (not in anything like a cajun or zydeco style). Whether you need an amp to compete with it depends on how loud you play. I can accompany an unamplified moothie so you can hear every note in the tune.

I feel like Berlioz in that quote "I love the *idea* of Paganini but can't stand his music". I want to like fusions of this sort but in practice my ears cringe when it happens. 1970s punk is in the same category for me.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 05:19 PM

You need amplification to be heard over the washboard. And Jack Campin, who, as far as I can determine, is a piper, has a lot of nerve complaining about loud, abrasive noises.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Kaleea
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 01:43 PM

I have always believed that one would have to be a fly on every wall in every country throughout history in order to know the actual origin of any given Music genre. Most genres happen over a period of time and in various geographical locations, sometimes years & towns, sometimes centuries & continents. I don't even want to think of the time warps & alternate universes involved-I'll leave that to the physicists who dabble in Musicology. I still enjoy learning about the roots of any given Music genre as that helps me to better understand the Music & the Peoples who play it. Oh, to have seen & heard with that fly!

   There are always the persons that prefer using electric instruments with distortion devices over very loud speakers who hear a genre of Music, like it, & employ it with their usual "screaming distorted amplification," whether it be Zydeco, Cajun, Blues, or Baroque. Unfortunately, sometimes this can mask the wonderful genre such that it is covered up or obliterated by the "screaming distorted amplification" the above quoted "Guest, Jack Campin" speaks of. I have always enjoyed any acoustic performance of any genre of folk Music I have ever heard. (yes, even if mics are used, but let's not get into the meaning of acoustic here!) But then, there are those who would say that the electrification & distortion is all a part of the process.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 11:51 AM

LOL!

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: GUEST,Sid Perks
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 11:02 AM

Zydeco music originally developed in Borchester in the 1970s. It was originally 'cider cow'- a mythical magical beast that recently reappeared in that Boddington's advert. The peculiar rhythm happened because Eddie Grundy hadn't got the hang of the accordion then.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 10:35 AM

Actually, Paul, I mistyped.

I meant to write that just because "sideco" is listed in a Yoruba dictionary, it doesn't mean it originally comes from that language.

As to the origin of the word juju-I always thought that it came from Yoruba or some other African language. But I've no proof of that.

Of course, words with the same or similar spelling and the same or similar pronuciation can be in more than one language and have entirely different origins & meanings.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 10:13 AM

But just because the word "juju" is listed in a Yoruba dictionary does not mean it comes from that language said Azizi.

I'd always understood (though I haven't got a citation by me) that "juju" came from the French "jou-jou", a childish word for a toy, and referred to the doll- like figures used in some religious contexts. Quite a lot of words considered to be of exotic origin are actually boomeranged European words, such as joss-house (a temple) from "Dios".

I recently had the pleasure of showing a local Asian shopkeeper that his name, Mistry, was in fact European, and comes from the same root as "maestro".

There's an excellent dictionary of Imperial-English words, "Hobson-Jobson", which is available in the UK on the budget Wordsworth imprint, and lists many such examples.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 10:08 AM

As to the meaning of the line "Jockomo fi na ne", and other words from Iko Iko and Mardi Gras Indian chants, see posts in the Iko Iko thread whose link is provided in my 14 Oct 06 - 07:40 PM post.

One of those posts includes this comment by Guest Bob Bob Coltman, which was originally posted in Mudcat thread RE: Cajun Music, 17 Jan 06

"By the way, a "Jockamo" = a jester, jokester."

-snip-

Also, if interested, this page of my website http://www.cocojams.com/mardi_gras_indian_chants1.htm provides additional comments on the meaning of words & phrases that are found in Iko Iko and other Mardi Gras Indian chants.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 09:46 AM

Wirh all due respect, M Ted, I've met a number of Yoruba persons in the USA as university students and otherwise.

Imo, it's highly possible that at least one person from Nigeria could have traveled to Louisiana and heard Zydeco music and brought back that word-if not the music style-to Nigeria and used it there.

But I'm not convinced that serico means "ritual" in the Yoruba language. I've not seen any proof of that statement.

However, it's possible that 'serico' is Yoruba and your definition is right and that Black Creoles in Louisiana heard that word from some Yoruba person or retained a memory of that word from way back when since some of their ancestors might have been Yoruba.

And I suppose it is also possible that these same French speaking Black Creoles used that word that you say means ritual as a refrain in decidedly unreligious party music and that eventually this dance music was called Zydeco which you say comes from serico.

Hey, anything is possible.

As for me, I'm still sticking with the beans aren't salty story until more evidence of an African origin-Yoruba or otherwise-is provided by you or anyone else.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 09:08 AM

So there were a lot of Yoruba speakers listening to Zydeco music? and they borrowed the word, only misunderstood what it meant, and, instead of "beans" they thought that it meant "ritual"? Ooookay.

Me, Myself, I think that the Zydeco music is more likely than not marginally connected to voudou, and that the word "zydeco" is an artifact, like" Jockomo fi na ne"--And I once asked the Wild Tchoupitoulas what that meant, and they didn't know. They didn't really know much about where the flag rituals had come from, either, except of course that the were part of Mardi Gras tradition. This was back in the late 70's, when nobody outside of a few places had even heard the music, let alone the word "Zydeco"--

This was in the Bay Area--in Richmond, there were a lot of families from Louisiana who'd come to build ships in WWII-so there were resident Zydeco bands, including Queen Ida, and La performers, like Clifton and Cleveland Chenier played in the area as well.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 10:45 PM

Sorry. I meant to write that "This comment identifies "Western pop" and "Latin American rhythms" as the 'international elements' that Yorubas incoporated to make juju music.

In this context, Zydeco music can be considered a form of "Western pop".

Btw-the traditional meaning for the word "juju" is "magic". Juju is not the formal name of the Yoruba traditional religion with which it is associated. The formal name is "Ifa". Two other terms that are used for this traditional religion is "Vodoun" and "Orisha Vodoun".

See Ifa Religon

However, Harry's Blues Online-Blues language page gives this definition of juju:

1 - a fetish, charm, or amulet of West African people. Juju as well as gris-gris are the African terms for the more commonly used mojo or mojo hand, see also mojo;
2 - the magic attributed to or associated with jujus

-snip-

If you're not hip to Harry's Blues Online, what are you waitin for?
Harry's where it's at. [In more ways than one].

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 10:19 PM

M Ted, thanks for the Haitian flags link.

With regard to your comment on the African origin of the word "sideco", if it is associated with juju music, and if the choice of which African language dictionary you saw that word listed is either Yoruba or Swahili, I'd pick door #1.

Swahili is a Eastern Africa & Central African language. Yoruba is a language is a West African language. Nigeria, West Africa is the birthplace of the music/dance genre "juju".

But just because the word "juju" is listed in a Yoruba dictionary does not mean it comes from that language. "Sideco" could have been [and I think probably was] adopted [borrowed]by Yoruba speakers who heard Louisiana/Texas, USA Zydeco music. I figured they're allowed to do that. Look at English. It borrows a heck of a lot of words from other languages.

See this excerpt from Afro-pop Worldwide-juju:

"For many years the most popular style in Nigeria, juju music evolved from Yoruba folklore and a variety of international elements. Early in the century, Lagos was a place where local peoples encountered freed slaves from the New World. Together they created a recreational music that came to be known as palm wine music, as it usually accompanied drinking. Banjos, guitars, shakers and hand drums supported lilting topical songs and produced local celebrities, notably "Baba" Tunde King, apparently the first to call his music juju."

-snip-

Note the comment about juju music evolving from Yoruba folklore and a variety of international elements.

This comment identifies "Latin American rhythms" as the 'international elements' that Yorubas incoporated to make juju music.

"Juju music surfaced from the lower classes of Nigeria as an alternative to the Highlife style that was played in urban hotels and costly nightclubs. Juju, on the other hand, named after the sound of the talking drum, was Yoruban street music played in working class palm wine bars, villages and at traditional events. Juju came to mean common, unsophisticated music, an exciting fusion of Western pop, Latin American rhythms and traditional African music and praise poetry that incorporates electric guitars and synthesizers with such indigenous instruments as talking drums. Lyrically, juju is rooted in the Yoruba tradition of singing about social and cultural issues through proverbs and parables."
http://www.worldmusiccentral.org/staticpages/index.php/jujumusic

-snip-

All of this to say, until I hear and read more about whether sideco is a traditional or borrowed Yoruba word, I'm stickin with the
"les haricots sont pas sale'/"the snapbeans they are not salty" story.

I guess it helps to also know that French was the language used for the earliest Zydeco songs. I'm not sure if that's been mentioned yet.

Anyway, I'm loving how all these different music genres have become a part of a Zydeco thread.

It takes a village to---sorry that's a whole nuther subject.

:o)

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 09:38 PM

Before jumping to any conclusions about the origins of the word "Zydeco", let me direct you to the following vinyl album, onBellot Records
out of Nigeria--
Prince Thony Adex and his sedico system - Juju funk explosion - Vol. II
LP, M 2386

I have this album--the music is a bit in the vein of King Sunny Ade--Prince Ade is called a "funky juju guitarist", and this music is, in fact juju ritual music--although juju ritual music is a lot like party music--what they call juju, we call voodoo--

The peculiar business about flags and flag boys that comes up in songs like "Iko,Iko" is less peculiar when you know about the Haitian Voodoo Flags --

At any rate, "sideco" is a word that means "ritual" in either Yoruba or Swahili--I looked it up once, and saved the whole dictionary that it was in to one of four hard drives, can't find it now--

Some knows, and some thinks they knows.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 09:22 PM

Oh, well. I guess I just have to do it the old fashioned way and look that article up in the library.

Or, I could go ahead and subscribe to that service. I haven't decided yet.

Anyway, thanks, McGrath for letting us know about that article.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 09:12 PM

Sorry I should have indicated it was a subscription site.

I'm afraid I haven't subscribed myself - I just came across the intro, and it looks as if it would be interesting.   But I see they've got a free introductory seven days days sub. I'll probably sign up to that sometime - I was looking at a list of articles, and there's clearly a lot of good stuff in there.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 08:24 PM

McGrath of Harlow, the next time that you recommend an article that folks have to be a paid subscriber to read, could you please add a notice of that with your post.

And would you please post fair use excerpts of that particular article [and any other one that you recommend], if that's allowed and if you have a notion to do so.

Thanks.

Color me disappointed. I was looking forward to reading that article without "selling the farm" to do so.


Azizi

{And yes, it might be worth it to subscribe to that online research service. But imho, it's the principle of the thing}.

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Darowyn
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:23 PM

I have noticed that Cajuns and Creoles come in for the same sort of jokes in the US that people in the UK would think of as Irish jokes.
The jokes go on the lines of "Boudreaux and Thibodeaux go into a bar..."
They then say something in a "funny" accent or do something stupid.
Ethnic stereotypes strike again!
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 02:02 PM

Interesting article here about Zydeco and Cajun music, and related stuff - "Let the Good Times Unroll: Music and Race Relations in Southwest Louisiana", from the Black Music Research Journal:

"In this article, I use music as a window into relations between black Creoles and Cajuns, interpreting music as a social arena in which relations between the two groups are partly determined."

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 01:59 PM

Re: the term dudu- I remember asking someone in the Caribbean about that term, but can't remember who it was or where they were from. I wonder if that word is still used. There's no entry for it {either spelled dodo or dudu in Internet glossaries of Jamaican patois {patwa}such as http://www.jamaicans.com/speakja/glossary.shtml or http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35287 or
http://www.jamaicans.com/speakja/glossary.htm

Of course, the word dudu could have come from a Caribbean patois other than Jamiaca.

I had a book on Jamaican slang but it seems to have "jumped up" and hid itself from me. If it ever decides to show up, I'll check to see if this word is included.


By the way, the term "ndudu" was used to "brother" {and ndada} ws used to mean "sister" in an afrocentric after-school & summer school program which was led by a woman I know. Those referent were said to be from the Swahili language [East & Central Africa]. It will come as no surprise to note that the word "ndudu" caused countless sniggers from the children who were supposed to use it with a straight face.

Not that it matters, but my opinion is that some names and words don't work well in other languages for sometimes obvious reasons-"dudu" is one of those words.

Perhaps off topic-and perhaps not-see this information on
Dudu Tucci, Brazilian percussionist:

"Dudu Tucci da Silva, was born 1955 in Sao Paulo, Brazil. Both
parents were opera singers; he was thus introduced to music at a very early age. While still a child, he drummed for Umbanda ceremonies. After school, he studied classical percussion, flute and musical science at Brooklin's Paulista conservatory. Traveling through Latin America in the mid seventies, he studied the musical traditions of various and the spirituality embedded in the music.

His friendship with the Brazilian composer Arrigo Barnabé, which began the 80s, led him to the Berlin Jazz Festival, invited by George Gruntz. Since then, he has lived in Germany.

Working with the dancer Ismael Ivo in an acclaimed production
"Ritual of a Body in the Moon" between 1982 and 1985, he became a member of Reinhard Flahtischler's ethnic percussion project "Megadrums", touring through Germany, Switzerland and Australia. He was honored as well on the Asia tour with the Korean drum group Samul Nori.

Dudu Tucci is a very popular teacher in Germany, many if not most of the 50 Samba schools now in existence in Germany were opened on his initiative. Together with Tiago de Oliveira Pinto he published his book "Samba and Sambistas in Brazil".

"In a tour de force through Brazil" street rhythms, Dudu Tucci presents a selection of sophisticated Samba arrangements and Samba Reggaes, as well as contemporary Afoxé, with Wolfgang Puschnig on saxophone and Kay Eckhardt de Camargo on bass. However, the master drummer's 18 (!) compositions, always recorded with compassion and with a virtuoso performance, are the main focus of attention, rendered here on conga drums, surdo and timbales, pandeiro, talking drums, berimbau and a whole range of other percussion instruments. A true celebration of rhythm!"

http://tcd.freehosting.net/djembemande/tucci.html

Dudu Tucci is also referred to as Obatimale Dudu Tucci in this website about one of his CDs: http://www.knockonwood.co.uk/details.asp/percussion/842/buy/Obatimale_Dudu_Tucci_CD.htm

The name: Obatimale is Yoruba {oba means king; I'm not sure what the other elements mean}... I'm wondering if the Caribbean term "dudu" originally came from the Yoruba language. There are oral traditions of people of Yoruba descent migrating to East Africa [and I believe there are traditions of the Yorubas originally being from Egypt/ancient Sudan].

Could the Swahili term "ndudu" and/or the Caribbean term "dudu" be traced to West Africa?

Some may be asking what does any of this have to do with Zydeco music?

My response is that you just gotta take a wide view of things and let it flow.

;O)

Subject: RE: What is Zydeco?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 12:16 PM

In the British West Indies & neighborhoor island groups "DoDo" is a term from an attractive woman.

"Darling dudu I'm taking yo with me
St. Peter St. Peter down at Courland Bay"

from the BWI shanty 'Down AT Courland Bay'

Barry