BS: Olympics - London's Shame

Subject: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 05:15 AM

Ten to a room and one shower for 75 people

They sleep in portable cabins, some of which have been leaking in the rain, at the campsite in East London

The bad weather has left the site flooded with stagnant water, forcing the cleaners to use abandoned crates as makeshift 'stepping stones'

'It is like a slum inside,' says one worker from Hungary

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174034/London-2012-Olympics-10-room-1-shower-75-people-Inside-slum-camp-Olympic-cleaner

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 05:46 AM

It is the Daily Mail, so should be taken with a large dose of salt.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 05:59 AM

"Ten to a room and one shower for 75 people"

I simply do not believe that. I would say "doubt" but it is so absurd I chose "not believe".

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 06:08 AM

All too plausible.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 06:12 AM

Well, depends how big the 'rooms' are. If they are dormitory-style, then 10 people could easily sleep in one.

However, what with the disgraceful revelations about the security arrangements and the shortcomings of the firm notionally responsible for them, prognostications for the games' organisation do not appear favourable [see Libby Purves' article on today's Times op-ed page].

All a great pity. The Games [for all the animdaversions of the 'usual-suspect' moaners-on-principle-about-everything who abound on this and all such sites, & whose tv's lack an off-button or a channel-change facility ~ no names no packdrill, as they say] could have been an enjoyable and prestigious occasion for us all. But the way things are going...!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 06:41 AM

Lots of seasonal workers live a similar life. They live in caravans or Portakabins, for a few weeks. They pick fruit, and help with harvests. They don't expect 4 star hotel accommodation to be supplied for temporary work do they?
The unusually heavy rainfall is a side issue, from which we are all suffering. You can't blame that on the Olympic cleaning contractors!

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 07:00 AM

The ONLY people who will do well out of the Olympics are huge , mostly non British Corporations - Macdonalds , Coca Cola etc .
Fortunately I will be well out of London for most of the tume !!

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 09:03 AM

That's the sort of remark I meant, tho, LF. Why "fortunately"; if you stay in London, the Games needn't impinge on you if you don't want them to. Just don't read those pages in the paper & don't switch in to those tv channels. There's a sort of grudging element at work about such remarks which I find distressing. The logistic cockups over the security, & other concomitant inefficiencies, are quite a separate point from the intrinsic undesirability of the Games' very presence & existence, which some, for reasons altogether impenetrable to me, appear to perceive ~~ at tedious and inordinate length.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 09:11 AM

I agree about the bunks but 75 to a shower? Can't see it. Perhaps I should have waited until I was awake to post.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Stu
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 09:42 AM

I agree with Leadfingers.

This is a smorgasbord for corporate interests and has bugger all to do with Olympian values.

Shine on, you can't even buy a bag of chips because those purveyors of shite McDonalds have made some sort of deal that means everyone else can't sell chips alone. This means the arrogant bastards think the thin, tasteless soggy stringy potato crap they sell are the equivalent to real chips, which is obviously complete bollocks.

It's hardly the London games if you can't get a bag of chips. Says it all really. Rich bastards dividing up the spoils whilst the rest of us can get to fuck.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 10:08 AM

Clickyis a link to an Independant page about 'Brand' police (286 of them) who will have powers to enter any premises they think are cashing in on the olympics and stopping the Official Sponsors making even more money , with a possible £20,000 Fine . And thats all over the country !

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 10:20 AM

I am trying to track down a VHS tape of the Copper Family made by Barry Callghan / Garland Films.

This is for my aunt who was born and brought up in Rottingdean. Indeed my late mother went to school with Bob Copper. We have all of their books and LPs - in pristine condition I might add. But we do not have this VHS tape.

Chris Metherell who bought the rights to Garland Films, after Barry Callaghan's untimely passing, tells me that the EFDSS are the ones who should re-issue it. However EFDSS tell me that they have no plans for this either on VHS or DVD - partly due to lack of finance and (I suspect) due to lack of interest.

Maybe Veteran Records could think about this? It would make a great addition to their catalogue.

Anyway I'd be grateful for a loan of said VHS if anyone has a copy please.

Chris B.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Stu
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 10:26 AM

Our local well dressing team didn't put the Olympic rings on the display in our village because of worries about copyright infringement. I mean, we need to shrug off these corporate benefit scroungers and start claiming some values back before the bastards sell the lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 10:55 AM

Sorry - please ignore / delete the last post - what I meant to say was:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2156672/London-2012-Olympics-Sponsors-pick-2-bosses-carry-torch-local-boy-dropped.html


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2155590/Flames-Greed-How-Olympic-spirit-hijacked-commercialism.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2172837/London-2012-Inside-Olympic-la-la-land-Village-Neon-signs-tell-happy.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170810/Olympics-officials-question-McDonalds-continue-sponsoring-Games-obesity-concerns.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174154/London-2012-Olympics-300-enforcement-officers-stop-traders-stepping-sponsors-toes.html

Publicans have been warned that blackboards promoting live TV coverage must not refer to brewers without an Olympics deal. Caterers and restaurateurs have been told not to advertise dishes that could be construed as having an association with the event.

McDonalds has even managed to secure exclusive rights to sell chips at the 40 Olympics venues, banning some 800 other retailers from serving the staple British snack.

Earlier this year grandmother Joy Tomkins, 81, was prevented from entering a doll with a hand-knitted 'GB 2012' outfit into a church fundraising sale.

Authorities ruled that the doll, which was due to be sold for £1 in May, breached the rules.

AND the USA isn't immune from controversy:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2173507/London-Olympics-2012-Cambodian-garment-workers-paid-just-10-week-make-branded-2012-Games-fanwear.html


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2173620/Democrats-MADE-IN-CHINA-U-S-Olympic-uniform-designer-Ralph-Lauren-revealed-party

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Megan L
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 11:06 AM

Oh dear you do seam to be rather partial to one media source can you coroborate the claims from other sources? It was Nigel Tranter who explained when writting historical stories one should research as many different versions of an event as one could find since the truth usually lay some where between the various parties in the event. perhaps the same should be said of present day events.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 11:18 AM

Shane is in London? London, England?

That's a surprise! He can't normally afford bus fare, so I guess Artixes and the Greys must've given him a lift in their spacecraft.

'It is like a slum inside,' says one worker from Hungary (referring to the Olympics accomodations)

Well, that's exactly what people say about Shane's house too, so he should feel right at home there, I'm thinking. Do they have a beer-chugging event this time?

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 11:46 AM

Only one thing can turn a portakabin into a slum, and that's the folks who dwell therein.
I suggest that folks who are only there to earn money, and only regard the TEMPORARY accommodation as a necessary evil, ain't gonna be really houseproud.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 11:47 AM

Just curious, looked up Daily Mail on the web.

Another garbage tabloid.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 11:49 AM

Olympics organisers have warned businesses that during London 2012 their advertising should not include a list of banned words, including "gold", "silver" and "bronze", "summer", "sponsors" and "London".

Publicans have been advised that blackboards advertising live TV coverage must not refer to beer brands or brewers without an Olympics deal, while caterers and restaurateurs have been told not to advertise dishes that could be construed as having an association with the event.

At the 40 Olympics venues, 800 retailers have been banned from serving chips to avoid infringing fast-food rights secured by McDonald's.

Unbelievable.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 12:01 PM

And kind of hilarious...in the sense of really dark humour.

I can imagine some future race of intelligent dinosaurs poring over the ancient human archeaological remains on this planet and saying to themselves, "What could have caused them all to die off so rapidly?"

And then they find the imperishable McDonalds food packaging scattered around amongst the ruins...and some petrified fries and a Big Mac.....AHA!

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Stu
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 12:22 PM

"Another garbage tabloid."

No, the tabloids are just stupid.

The Daily Mail is a vitriolic, cynical, nasty, mean little rag which isn't fit to wipe the clagnuts off the arses of most of the people in the country (bankers, politicians. corporate scroungers and church leaders excepted, for whom it's almost too good).

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 12:32 PM

Must say, SFJ, that your final parenthesis could equally be summed up, it seems to me, as "vitriolic, cynical, nasty, mean".

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Stu
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 12:52 PM

Ah well, just tired of thieves, incompetents, the-want-something-for-nothing-brigade and misogynistic, homophobic charlatans.

Call that what you want, but something in our society has shifted so you, I and pretty much everyone else are now simply lemons to be squeezed. The thing about the Olympics is it should bring out the best in people, but it's all about status and generating income, on the backs of the work of modern olympians from both the games events.

McDonalds have kindly agreed to pay tax on the 'food'* they sell, obviously to offset the criticism that they are tax dodgers. However, Diddy Dave and his pals passed legislation meaning that no foreign nationals (athletes, journalists etc) and 'partner' organisations (Coca Cola, Visa, Dow, Panasonice, Samsung) don't have to pay tax; Stratford is an offshore tax haven.





* In the interests of full disclosure, I have to state I do eat McDonalds occasionally. Not often, and only in desperation but it has happened. however, this does mean I can air an opinion on the taste, nutritional value etc of their food. It is shite.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Stu
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 12:58 PM

Error: I think the legislation creating a tax haven was passed in 2006, meaning the pseudo-tories in before are responsible. Not that Didy Dave et. al. were ever likely to develop a sense of social responsibility and charge these people and firms their due. No fun putting big business out of, er, business.

They're not like the rest of us you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 01:03 PM

I've eaten McDonalds "food" on rare occasions too.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 01:12 PM

Why pray, would anyone want to buy chips when this is the new potato season? Well, I suppose the lower classes cannot do without them!

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 02:02 PM

The Olympics are in effect occupying East London and hugely inconveniencing all but the VIPs associated with them. Travel for many many thousands is sabotaged. They adversely affect many many people.

Bonzo - please go back to Argentina and its enclaves of descendents of you know who. You wouldn't know class if it bit you on the arse.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 02:22 PM

Reassuring, Sugarfoot Jack, to learn that potatoes now feature in the production of McDonalds "chips."

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Stu
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 02:52 PM

I suppose they're made of potatoes. Difficult to tell really, as they are always flaccid, rather sad-looking and tastless. The burgers are apparently made with pink slime (worth looking up, but not before tea), and the fish is probably bleached offcuts of a cods arsecheeks.

Odd no-one has mentioned G4S, immigrant-'restraining', right up the backside of government firm who have not only lied to the hapless Theresa May but also are now going to cost us a packet in soldiers and coppers being sent in to do the job instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 03:01 PM

I mentioned the G4S cockup above, SFJ ~ 0612 am; tho I had forgotten their name. It's all a pity. These games should have been worth having; but all this bureuacracy, idiot exclusiveness and restraint of trade, and inefficiency inexpertly covered up, threaten the integrity of the whole occasion Opportunity wantonly wasted, is the threat, I fear.

But I must put in a word for the Mac-fry [or chip]: about only thing on their menu, along with the hot apple pie, worth eating. That no reason for it to be the only one available, tho: there is a horrible over-anxiousness apparent all thru the organisation of the whole occasion, which, I say again, threatens to scupper it entirely.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 03:06 PM

Hi

I slept in a place with a tin roof for many months.

I slept in a room with about 20 other people for which we had but three showers......usually cold after the first couple of people had used them.

Believe you me this was no slum. The floors shone and were re-polished every day.

The rooms were inspected every day and the equipment, including personal belongings had to be stored away all cleaned and ironed.

Perhaps we should have some RAF drill instructors in these places - that would soon sort them out - oh I forgot we would be infringing their human rights !!!.

Cheers

MikeL2 - per adua ad asbestos

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 03:09 PM

The irony is, I suspect that in true British fashion everything will actually turn out all right and the doom-mongers will be proved wrong.   Nevertheless, it is hardly surprising that many people are indifferent to the Olympics. The brand police have ruthlessly stamped on any attempts to get into the Olympic spirit - or if they haven't, the heavy-handed threats have scared many people off from doing anything to support the Olympics or run Olympic-themed events that might get people into the mood for the games. Of course it was inevitable that the sponsorship deals would go to the big global corporations, but any sense of Britishness has been eradicated by the substitution of British beer by Heineken lager and the British chip by McDonalds' french fries. The fiasco of ticket sales left many people believing they had no chance of getting tickets, so they didn't bother.

The Olympic VIP traffic lanes and missile launchers on people's roofs are no doubt necessary but are deeply un-British, and far from being reassuring leave the impression that the Olympics are another world being imposed on the rest of us - which of course they are. And the final straw - we are now told it may be too cold for the beach-volleyball players who may now wear leggings and long-sleeved tops instead of bikinis.

I am not anti-Olympics, but they will be happening 200 miles from me and I am neither more nor less interested just because they are in London than I would be if they were happening anywhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 03:16 PM

; if you stay in London, the Games needn't impinge on you if you don't want them to. Just don't read those pages in the paper & don't switch in to those tv channels.
Some of us have folk music interests outside of Mudcat. Going out to folk clubs will be affected.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 03:28 PM

Or indeed: "I am not anti-Olympics - providing the emphasis is on sport - but they will be happening a mere 20 miles from me and I am neither more nor less interested just because they are in East London than I would be if they were happening anywhere else."

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 04:22 PM

Look, if you live or work in London YOUR transport will be crippled and rights of way Englishmen have travelled since 1189 will be restricted to Olympians and bigwigs.

If you live in London, there are ack-ack guns ready to shoot down allegedly terrorist planes - onto YOUR roof.

If you rent a home in London, YOUR home will be priced beyond your reach (if the rent is variable) because of the moronic Olympics.

Businesses are restricted from using the words "London" or the numerals "2012" - because of the bloody Olympics.

There will be nothing but grunts on the TV for about 4 weeks.

And people will line the pockets of the Dirty Digger for most of that coverage.

The whole thing is a conspiracy against the ordinary Englishman.

The money will go into the pockets of the Etonians and their mates. Any losses will be picked up by the poor who subsidise the rich and the tax system for the benefit of the Etonians.

Aux barricades!

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 05:17 PM

Hey, I'm happy about it! I'm happy that it's happening where you lot live, and not where I do. ;-D But what does Olive Whatnoll have to say about it? That's what I want to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 06:22 PM

I can't stand sport of any sort, so the Olympics mean absolutely bugger-all to me. I shall indeed exercise my prerogative with the TV remote control and ensure, as far as I can, that no sport and as little news of sport as possible appears in front of me for the duration of the games. Luckily, I'm retired from the day job and live on the south coast where I will, hopefully, not be affected by the buggering-up of London streets.

I suppose the dear old Guardian will inevitably have some sports coverage in it - but I'll skip those pages wherever the Olympics appear as far as possible. It's also likely that my local pub will show some sport on its TV, but they usually have the sound down so, if I stand with my back to the screen, I shan't see it with a bit of luck.

As an extra precaution I'm currently doing a rain dance every evening in my back garden, hoping that the jet stream will continue to swirl over the Olympic site(s), and digging up medieval curses and invocations of the blackest kind to spoil the fun. Actually, there's a Carthusian monastery three miles up the road from me - I quite fancy a peaceful month there...

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 06:52 PM

Last time we had the Olympics in London in 1948 the total cost came to £732,268 - and after taking income from tickets and stuff, the organisers ended up making a modest profit of £29,420, £9000 of which was taken by the Inland Revenue. No sponsorship deals with the likes of Coca Cola etc. were involved- and none were needed.

Prices have gone up since then of course - that £732,268 would now be equivalent to £23 million.

The way this whole thing has mushroomed and been exploited is ridiculous and rather degrading. Degrading to the whole idea of the Olympics.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 06:54 PM

LOL! You're a man after my own heart, Will.

We must keep in mind, though, that Sport will always be very interesting and meaningful to those who take part in it...but that doesn't mean you and I have to watch it.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Bugsy
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 08:16 PM

75 to a shower???

Sounds like a FOLK FESTIVAL!

CHeers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 09:04 PM

An article in this month's Smithsonian Magazine: "Let the Good Thames Roll!"

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: MikeL2
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 06:38 AM

Hi

I share many views and activities with Will.

But on sport we are opposites !!!

I have played and taked part in several sports including Rugby Union, Rugby League, Football, Basketball, Golf from Inverness ( some personal interest for me cos I used to live there ) and even table-tennis.

At the moment I am housebound and am due to go into hospital tomorrow for an operation - not serious.

So sport on TV is a boon for me and in the past few days I have witnessed two great Rugby League semi-final games; Athletics from London; Moto Gp racing from Holland and I have even got into Cycling with the Tour De France.

After my op I will be able tp watch The British Open Golf Championship from Lytham - St- Anne's. ( I was due to spend some time there but have had to hand over my tickets etc to my son who is very pleased to deputise!!).

Then there is the Formula One Grand Prix from Germany and then hard on their heels comes the Olympics.

For me absolute Heaven.

I know that this is not for everyone. And I do understand how others feel that do not share my sporting interests - but hey this TV Sporting Extravaganza has come just at the right times for this old crock.

I am lucky that in no way am I inconvenienced by the Olympics and so I give them my blessings and hope to see many British medal winners.
I do feel sympathy for those who will be inconvenienced and especially those who have absolutely no interest.

I am doubly lucky because my wife shares most of my sporting interest and so we have no house-hold quarrels over TV. She just goes into another room if she wants to watch something else.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: GUEST,Sugarfoot jack awash in a sea of electrons
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 07:01 AM

I too enjoy sport, but simply can't afford it. Like the Olympics, my favourite sports (football and now effing F1 have) been handed over lock stock to the digger and oterh money men.

Wankers.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 08:00 AM

SugarfootJack:
However, Diddy Dave and his pals passed legislation meaning that no foreign nationals (athletes, journalists etc) and 'partner' organisations (Coca Cola, Visa, Dow, Panasonice, Samsung) don't have to pay tax;
To cut the excess verbiage: Everyone will pay tax.
Or is that not what you meant?

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 08:06 AM

With you 100% on F1 Jack, but I loathe footie.
I WILL NOT swell the already over full coffers of the dirty digger to watch F1. I MIGHT consider paying a modest amount to watch it elsewhere, but on the whole, I'd rather the BBC spent my licence fee on F1, than on exorbitant salaries for over rated, four eyed ginger twats.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 11:02 AM

US Olympics have been privatized. They no longer represent our country.

Also, check out what happened in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Stu
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 11:28 AM

"Or is that not what you meant?"
Ha! My appalling grammar. Sorry (and again!).

One 'don't' too many in there. They won't be paying tax. Unlike me, a sole trader struggling with rising costs, clients with ever less money and a mortgage. No tax perks for the small fry, just the big corporate sponging turds floating on the surface.

Milton Friedman? Fuck off! Him and his disciples have bollocksed up everything for the rest of us. All this, the devaluing of the Olympics to a commercial free-for all, deforestation, climate change, bankers, libor, foreclosures in the US, drilling in the arctic, child labour, sovereign debt, China owning the world, curable diseases not treated by big pharma, F1 on Sky, crooked politicians, the Republic of The British Financial sector doing what the fuck it wants without accountability, halliburton etc etc etc is all demonstrate the failure of unregulated free-market economics.

These olympics are just another boil on the arse of UK plc. G4S will get away with this fiasco, however if I treated my clients like that I'd get shown the door and the phone would stop ringing. Mind you, I like to think I have some integrity; big business has none it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 11:56 AM

"...four eyed ginger twats."
Define, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 12:05 PM

"...four eyed ginger twats."
Define, please.

A reference Chris Evans, I believe.

Somewhat odd given that he's hugely cheaper and has a far bigger audience than Formula One

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics - London's Shame
From: Megan L
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 12:26 PM

That does not make either of them value for the exorbitant licence fee it is time they did away with it.