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BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches
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Subject: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patch From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 03 - 03:23 PM I know of at least two other Mudcatters who are going through a rough patch similar to what I find myself in. I am wondering if we might give each other some support through suggestions, anecdotes, diversions, etc.? When one has a chronic condition and they find themselves in a "Catch 22" situation, how can they push on through to the other side? For instance, feeling crappy, knowing what will make it better, but doing the bad things for instant soothing of symptoms, knowing full-well that it will make it worse, later on! It's all wrapped up in emotions, reactions, depression, and feeling defeated. I know, but how does one work through that, esp. when they feel too rotten to take many steps towards healing? Intellectually, we realise what we are doing, but seem almost powerless to change it. Thanks from me and on behalf of a couple of others who want to stay anonymous, kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: mg Date: 10 Apr 03 - 03:33 PM I would start with easy, passive things that someone else helps with..accupuncture, massage, aromatherapy, etc. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: CarolC Date: 10 Apr 03 - 03:34 PM At times like that I try to remember to say to myself, "I acknowlege that impulse and I let it pass". Then I go eat a pickle. Pickles are one of the only fun foods that don't make me sick, or aggravate any of my health problems. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: harpgirl Date: 10 Apr 03 - 03:57 PM ...difficult to give a coherent answer without some more info, kat. What are the actual problems and what are the temporary but not really good solutions as opposed to the solutions that are instant fixes? Good sex goes a long way to make people feel better and that's not usually a bad idea if it's safe.... A bowl of ice cream might only be bad for a diabetic....eliciting mutual support is always a good idea...good sleep, a good diet, exercise and hydration go a long way in making physical problems better...even though I'm a therapist I like the natural solutions to problems as much as the hocus pocus...harpy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: harpgirl Date: 10 Apr 03 - 03:59 PM ...I have a massage as often as I can afford it to give myself stress relief and I practice better breathing...not to mention all of the above...harpy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: GUEST,Lyle Date: 10 Apr 03 - 04:02 PM I know this is a whole lot easier to say than to do, and I also recognize that I am offering a somewhat specific approach to a problem that I know nothing about. With those limitations, one thing that has helped some folks is to try to separate the cause(s) from the symptoms, and learn to deal with the causes. Oversimplifying to make a point, suppose I am unhappy at work, with my symptoms being withdrawn, overeating, drinking, whatever. Don't spend time finding ways to treat those symptoms. Try an in depth look at EXACTLY what it is that causes the unhappyness, and find ways to eleminate or at least tolerate that. In many cases, the symptoms then disappear. That is not always a solution, though. I have a friend who refuses to do that, even though she knows what the causes are, but is afraid to address her cause (him, really). But causes are not always other people. Hope this makes some sense. At least I hope it lets you realize that other people care. Lyle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: Ebbie Date: 10 Apr 03 - 04:06 PM I would add: be forgiving of yourself. This may not be the time to 'get something done'. Ease up, and go with what smooths and sooths you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 03 - 05:50 PM Thank you all, very much! Lyle, yes it does make sense. Carol, I love that a pickle will do it for you! Too salty for me, though. Ebbie, that is what the other Mudcatters and I have been telling each other, but it is easier to say than to do. Harpy and Mary, yes, when I can! I cannot share what the others have told me, but for myself, it's up and down BP which has never happened before and which we're having a time getting under control, coupled with just feeling like crap because of it. So...my best-laid efforts of exercise, which was going pretty well considering, and eating right, which was also going pretty well, just went to hell and then I get into the vicious circle of it feels better to treat myself to chocolate or some other not so great food and/or other "indulgence," and saying oh what the hell, then feeling rotten for having fallen off the wagon, so to speak. My doc and Rog say to not beat myself up over it, but I am tired of going through this and want it to get settled so I can get back on track. We are repeating some blood tests to see what we can do to help that way, but my doc and I also are working on keeping the meds to a minimum. Arrgghhhhh! It's spring and I want to be out doing things and feeling better, chronic shit or not! Thanks for listening!! I feel like a whiney-titty-baby and I've probably missed some other posts because I started this, then received a phone call and have only just come back to finish it up. Rog and I are going to go for a very short walk when he comes home, tonight, so that will help. I just have to feel some progress and it gets me down when I don't.*bg* Big question which I know the others have asked, too: Why do we do the things we intellectually know are not good for us, yet emotionally feel good from doing? luvyakat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: SINSULL Date: 10 Apr 03 - 06:00 PM kat - don't discount the effect the current political situation is having on your psyche. I have had to take myself in hand for a serious re-evaluation of my depression control. I have not had any symptoms for three or four years. Now, I am classic right down to memory problems. Something else to blame on Bush. It helps me to set up a list of SIMPLE tasks to do each day and check them off when they are done. I hate housework. If I plan to vacuum, do laundry, clean bathrooms, and kitchens, etc. on Saturday, none of it happens. But one or two partial tasks get done each evening and I feel better. I have accomplished something. And force yourself to spend some time outside enjoying whatever spring is out there. It helps. Hug a cat. Mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: CarolC Date: 10 Apr 03 - 06:02 PM This is what I do for food cravings and mood swings. I take Calcium D-Glucarate, and I use natural progesterone and estrogen creams. These things help me quite a lot. Plus, I try to stay away from all dairy products and egg products that contain laboratory produced hormones, and red wine. The difference for me is like night and day. Don't know if those things would help anyone else, but they might be worth a try. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: Tinker Date: 10 Apr 03 - 06:34 PM The list approach helps me loads when I just can't seem to get things done. I've been trying to take off a few pounds and even when I actually keep track of exercise and diet nothing seems to be happening... Having gone through early adulthood eating everything you could put in front of me and only slightly breaking 100lbs---There is a part of me that just doesn't get it. When I'm tired, or upset or rushing around it all just falls apart. Be sure you're getting enough sleep and set the goals at achievable. Maybe being "good" 4 out of 7 days a week is a good goal in a world that's gone a little crazy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: Jim Dixon Date: 10 Apr 03 - 07:10 PM Kat, the only clue I have as to what your problem is, is those 2 letters: BP. Do you mean bipolar disorder, a.k.a. manic depression? Seriously? I mean, has a genuine psychiatrist diagnosed it? (Pardon my nosiness, but some people toss around psychiatric terms as if they're as easy to diagnose as the common cold, and as easy to self-treat, also.) If so, my advice is: 1. Follow your shrink's advice. 2. Talk to some other people who have, or have had, the same problem. Ask your shrink to recommend a support group. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: catspaw49 Date: 10 Apr 03 - 07:12 PM BPD id Bi-Polar Disorder..........BP is Blood Pressure............BS is Bullshit Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 03 - 07:21 PM Sorry, Jim, I should have said. Spaw's got it right, though, it's that old blood pressure.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patchs From: Bobert Date: 10 Apr 03 - 07:33 PM Well, depression from whatever source is best delt with the following natural things: 1. Know that it will pass. 2. Support: Families, friends of cyber buddies. 3. Exercise. 4. A quiet spot where you feel safe with a few of your most prized pssessions. 5. Get out. 6. Get laid. 7. An occasional bowl of herb/ with match! But only occasional. 8. Music. 9. Massage. 10. Prayer/Medidation. By this time in most of our lives we have suffered thru something or another so don't get caught up in the "why me?" syndrome. Make today count for something... Good luck, Love, Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 03 - 08:38 PM All good, except I've never done the herb, Bobert! And, hte Why me? went a long time ago. Just got off the phone with one of the others who reminded me that some of this is the way it is because of chronic pain and inability or no desire to take many types of drugs including aspirin and other painkillers. Not just myself but one of them, too. I know of exercises which help, but it is difficult to do them when one feels like shit, esp. when one hasn't slept in 3 nights! Just venting and reading your suggestions is helpful and good reminders for me in the midst of a "bad patch." Thanks a bunch! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: harpgirl Date: 10 Apr 03 - 09:02 PM ...I was going to say that chronic pain raises blood pressure but I didn't realize that you had chronic pain. That is surely a big cause of your current problem with BP spikes. Have you had a disabling injury? Many of my chronic pain clients, especially the ones with RSD, have blood pressure problems. Ebby's advice is very important, kat. Don't ever dis yourself for having some chocolate, or eating something you normally avoid or asking for support. Have some cheese with that whine, but make it low fat! GL harpy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: khandu Date: 10 Apr 03 - 09:06 PM kat, I got no good suggestions, but I just wanted to let you know that we Love you and your sufferings are in our hearts and minds. Ken |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: Ebbie Date: 10 Apr 03 - 09:11 PM "Why do we do the things we intellectually know are not good for us, yet emotionally feel good from doing?" I suspect it's because it is good for us at that moment. Just maybe your emotions know what your system needs. If the pendulum has swung too far in one direction, the trick may be to go in the other direction- just not all the way over. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: wysiwyg Date: 10 Apr 03 - 10:03 PM Been there, doing that. Best tools have been and remain those described at www.rc.org. The "rc" does NOT stand for roman catholic, BTW. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: Rustic Rebel Date: 11 Apr 03 - 01:07 AM Kat, have you ever heard of Jiaogulan? (Gymnostemma Pentaphyllum) A Chinese herb that helps with lowering blood pressure, cholesterol and weight. Studies also show it helps the immune system and more. a link to info This herb also has the benefits of ginseng to help relieve some stress. Check it out sis. Peace. Rustic |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: Peg Date: 11 Apr 03 - 01:31 AM I second the recommendation of calcium supplements..take them at night with vitamin C. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: GUEST Date: 11 Apr 03 - 01:32 AM LaughKat It's all wrapped up in emotions, reactions, depression, and feeling defeated.
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 11 Apr 03 - 01:54 AM I feel like a whiney-titty-baby
Good diagnosis - from your first MC year - to today - that's you.
Sincerely,
There is no cure - this is as good as it gets - no one can pull you out of the shitty-pot once you have fallen in.
A Conversation With Maya Angelou at 75 B Y L U C I N D A M O O R E
MOORE: If your mother liberated you to think big, what gifts did your grandmother give you?
ANGELOU She gave me so many gifts....she taught me not to complain.
My grandmother had one thing that she would do for me about twice a year. Shall I tell you [She laught loudly.] Momma would see a whiner, a complainer come down the hill. And she would call me in. She's say, "Sister, Sister, come out her." I'd go and look up the hill and a complainer was trudging. And the man or woman would come into the store and my grandmother would ask, "How you feel today?"
"Ah, Sister Henderson, I tell you I just hate the winter. It makes my face crack and my shins burn."
And Momma'd just say, "Uh-huh," and then look at me. And as soon as the person would leave, my grandmother would say, "Sister, come here." I's stand right in front of her. She'd say, "There are people all over the world who went to sleep last night who did not wake again. Their beds have become their cooling boards their blankets have become their winding sheets. They would give anything for just five minutes of what she was complaining about." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: Mudlark Date: 11 Apr 03 - 05:50 PM Well, as far as I'm concerned a good whine over real troubles, just like a good cry, is very cleansing. Maya Angelou is a good poet but her personal life is not so pristine that her homilies need be taken as gospel. Kat...first off, sorry you are in a state. Very wise to reach out, look for support and suggestions. You never know when some one thing will ring your bell and it is helpful at any time to know that people care about you. I live wi/chronic illness/pain also, and have just come to accept that there will some days when I just blow it...get tired of doing the "right thing" and still feeling awful, angry, frustrated, etc. At such times I try to keep subsequent self-bashing at a minimum (hard to avoid completely), knowing that 1)it is desctructive and 2)doesn't usually change anything. I try to be aware of my Circadian rhythms...if my energy comes up at 5PM, for instance, I don't fight the lethargy at noon, just try to get as much done as possible while I'm feeling up. Letting go of that old sense of control, of being able to "make" your body respond, at command, is sometimes necessary. When I was first diagnosed w/lupus, and very ill, I rented comedy videos nearly every day. So if I was too exhausted to do anything, I'd put in a video, say to hell with it, and with luck in a few minutes would be laughing. I don't know if laughter really IS the best medicine, but it beats anger, dispair and frustration. If you have the energy and spirit to do anything, try not to overdo. Take pleasurable breaks of 30 min. or so...good book, some dulcimer practice, meditation, whatever is restful and fun. When those "must do" lists get long, and there's no energy to do much, it's easy to go overboard trying to compensate...short term heroics compound the problems often, the next day. Lists can be good, however, especially if you list what really needs to be done: not "clean bedroom" but all the steps listed separately that it takes to get a clean bedroom. That way if you only have the energy to dust, or make the bed, you can cross something off on the list. This sounds childish, even to me, yet there is an undeniable good feeling about crossing off stuff on a long list. Most of all, honor your body. True, it's not functioning at top speed at the moment, but before you knock it, try to stay aware of all the stuff it is still doing right. Complex machinery, so complex nobody really understands it. It is a miracle all the things it can do, even when stressed. Take care....Nancy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: Liz the Squeak Date: 11 Apr 03 - 07:33 PM Set attainable goals, reward yourself when you reach them. My goal is to lose a stone before May, rewarding myself with a CD if I get there. It's an attainable target (although the first time I've ever actually set myself a weight loss target) and it could happen. I REALLY want that CD, and the money I spend on it will be less spent on chocolate! Your goal could just be getting out of bed before 9.00am, or getting TO bed before midnight.... I've set them for myself before now! And knowing that we're always here, even at stupid o'clock in the morning! LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: GUEST Date: 11 Apr 03 - 07:51 PM i use to smoke pot to cope with my depression...that was years ago....then i turned to booze...but after a while turned from booze as I saw the gulf i was sinking in.... thinking lately of turning back to grass... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: Mrrzy Date: 11 Apr 03 - 08:25 PM Well, the latter is certainly healthier than the former. If I really want to, I eat - but only some. Like, I'll be good all week and decide that THIS weekend - I'll have a COKE! (That's *a* coke, y'all). That way, I never do the whole 12-pack because all week I can think, well, this weekend I can have ****. Or whatever it is I'm craving. About mood swings, I'm very lucky to have a LARGE kith/kin group that is spread around enough that I can lean on several, really, before the rest hear about it and I start feeling like a burden. I used to have a larger one, bloody layoffs *%)#%&($. However, I can ALWAYS come to the Mudcat. I got great support here when I didn't get full custody of the twins, or when my niece died, or whenever my dad's death was getting to me, or what have you. Please PM the anonymi that they can PM me, anytime! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: smallpiper Date: 11 Apr 03 - 08:39 PM Quit the salt, loose weight, take exercise and take the meds the doc gives you but most importantly change your thinking from "ooh this is bad I must change it or I'll be really ill one day" to "does this really matter? this is the way it is and doing the right thing will change it or if it dosn't who cares!" Now I'm not saying that I don't care 'cos I do but if you can loose some of the stress and greif that you are giving yourself over the problem the problem will sort itself out. So quit fretting girl and just get on with the day to day running of your life. (I also have BP problem and am cool about it which is helping believe me) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: smallpiper Date: 11 Apr 03 - 08:41 PM P.S. mutual support is good as long as that is what it is and as long as it is not transference or counter transference i.e making ach ther feel worse even when on the surface yuoare trying to make each other feel better - its complicated |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: katlaughing Date: 11 Apr 03 - 10:17 PM Believe me, smallpiper, I know. I've been staying on the positive side of this for over 25 years. As I said at the beginning, this is a rough patch and I really appreciate the support and care of friends. Quit the salt years ago, working on the weight and exercise...compromised ability limits to some extent, i.e. makes progress really slow, so I have to learn more patience. You are right about not fretting, though, and that is what I am learning to do, all over again. Didn't used to do that so much.:-) Mudlark, thank you, very much. There is so much wisdom in what you write. I will be returning to your posting and those of you others many times to keep myself on track. LtS..."stupid o'clock" it is, darlin'!! **bg** AND, thanks for thinking my getting out of bed is a worthy goal; with 5 cats it's something I am compelled to do every morning, so it's not too big of a problem, BUT it sure is validating to think of it as a goal! Mrrzy, thank you! And, thanks to everyone else, too. My dear GoyleGarg...amazing, when it comes to declaring your love for me, you just have no self-control, do ya, darlin'? Add a little compassion to it and we just might have something! Today has been better, esp. because of the kindness of you all. I am sure the other Mudcatters I mentioned ahve derived some good from this, too, as these are exactly some of the things we've talked about. luvya'll...kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: CarolC Date: 11 Apr 03 - 11:39 PM I should have mentioned before, Calcium D-Glucarate is a special kind calcium that helps the body eliminate excess hormones and other things from the body. It's also supposed to be good for the liver. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 12 Apr 03 - 12:29 AM Use ANALOGIES to purge your soul of the demons!!!!
Tell you what little pussy-cackle....
Imagine that positive the forces of the coalition armies have entered your body
Imagine all the Arbam/AK47/Bradley/ fighting weapons are unleased against the "evil" aflicting your sourl.
Now substitute a powerful spiritual influence for the USA military- phone your father - and rejoice in the healing!
Sincerely,
Been praying for you little pussy-foot...but if you decide to "cut-loose" I'll meet you on the other side. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: GUEST Date: 12 Apr 03 - 12:34 AM My dearest LaughKat....beware of false prophets!!!
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: katlaughing Date: 12 Apr 03 - 02:52 AM Oh GoyleGag...you just don't get it at all do you...I know they say love can make you blind, but this, well...if that's the way you want to see things, who am I to deny you? Carol, thanks for the added info. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: Troll Date: 12 Apr 03 - 03:09 AM kat, I wish I had an answer for you but I don't. If I did, I would use it myself. Know, however,that, for whatever it is worth, you are in my thoughts and prayers. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: *daylia* Date: 12 Apr 03 - 10:02 AM kat, this is from "You Can Heal Your Life" by Louise Hay (Our Lady of the Affirmations) ... DEPRESSION Probable Cause - Anger you feel you do not have the right to have. Hopelessness Affirmation - "I now go beyond other people's fears and limitations. I create my life". BLOOD PRESSURE PROBLEMS - Hypertension (high BP) Probable Cause - Long-standing emotional problem not solved. Affirmation - "I joyously release the past. I am at peace". Low BP Probable Cause - Lack of love as a child. Defeatism. "What's the use? It won't work anyway." Affirmation - "I now choose to live in the ever-joyous NOW. My life is a joy." INSOMNIA (you said you're having trouble sleeping?) Probable Cause - Fear. Not trusting the process of life. Guilt. Affirmation - "I lovingly release the day and slip into a peaceful sleep, knowing tomorrow will look after itself." FATIGUE Probable Cause - Resistance, boredom. Lack of love for what one does. Affirmation - "I am enthusiastic about life and filled with energy and enthusiasm." CHRONIC DIS-EASES Probable Cause - A refusal to change. Fear of the future. Not feeling safe. Affirmation - "I am willing to change and to grow. I now create a safe, new future." I've been using Louise's affirmations (either as is or as a guide to creating my own) every day for over a year now, with excellent results. My attitude toward myself and my life continues to improve every day! I am one of those people that tends to respond quickly and well to "spiritual" forms of healing though - and everyone is different. The best time for women to start a new affirmation is on either the Full or New Moon, or on the first day of menstruation. Then use it every day for the next 28 days. I've found this to be the most powerful way to introduce new thought-patterns/beliefs and the emotions which accompany them. The physical/emotional improvements which result are truly amazing! I practice them during my daily morning meditations, using an estoric breathing technique I learned from Ted Andrew's book "Psychic Protection" which works very well for me. I'll post the method here if anyone's interested - don't want to take up more bandwidth if you're not! Of course, the affirmations are meant to be used in conjunction with, not as a replacement for regular medical help, at your own discretion. Hope all that helps a bit, kat. Please remember that I'm only a PM or a phone call away! luvyatoo - daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mutual Support - through the rough patches From: Liz the Squeak Date: 13 Apr 03 - 09:52 AM OOOOOh someone said the M word!!!! It's a powerful time to start things, but can also be misleading.... be careful what you start. Believe me Kat, I've had to steel myself to the world to just get out of bed by 3 in the afternoon, and the fact that 3 puddytats were milling round and trying out my toes for edibility had no impact at all.... I was here at Stupid O'Clock Saturday night - where were you? (Mind you, my SO'C is about your mid evening....... I'll let you off) LTS |
