BS: Wall Street Protesters...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 11:01 AM

Greg F.-
The ignorant morons who voted were a bunch of folks who were angry and frustrated about the conditions they were living under. Point is, that they developed political clout by focusing (or being focused by manipulative forces) on some specific, concrete demands.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 11:02 AM

Obama gave an enthusiastic endorsement to the Wall Street protestors.

That is because he is and "activist" and not an executive at all.

The protestors are carfully organized and supplied with food, warm clothing, bull horns, and direction where they are supposed to "protest".

Machael Moore, Susan Saran Rap and the usual Hollywood suspects are showing up and giving pep talks. The bills will be paid by George Soros out of the $12 billion he has accumulated by short-selling America's business comunity, the people who employed the millions who are now unemployed. What a stupid game.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: kendall
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 11:37 AM

"The Capitalist will sell the rope that hangs him." (Karl Marx)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 11:39 AM

The people who voted the millionaire Tea Party candidates did so because the Tea Party candidates promised "jobs, jobs, jobs"... Everything was about jobs... Then once elected, the millionaire Tea Part candidates tore off their sheep clothing and cranked up their hidden agendas and used "eastern elitist pinhead" class warfare on the educated to appease their dupes...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 02:30 PM

Sorry to burst your bubble, pdq, but...

* President Obama did not endorse Occupy Wall Street. All he said is that he understands why lots of people feel frustrated. Other politicians have voiced similar sentiments.

• The protesters are in fact very well organized, and supplied with food and clothing. But that is because they are self-organized. There are no outsiders giving the movement direction. If you actually saw the encampment and how it governs and takes care of itself, that notion would be completely absurd. The only direction comes from the General Assembly, in which everyone has an equal voice.

• There are no bullhorns at the Occupy Wall Street encampment, since the Occupy Wall Street encampment does not have a permit for electrical amplification. Instead, the people use human amplification. The speaker says one short phrase at a time, and then the crowd repeats what he or she just said. It is a very effective system.

• Yes, the people you call "the usual Hollywood suspects" have indeed been showing up and giving talks. But so can anyone, including you. Just go to the table near the west side of Liberty Plaza and sign up for a time slot, and then you will get your chance to address the multitudes. Whether or not many people will listen to you is, however, an open question. There are also informal speeches and discussions going on all the time. For these you need not sign up for a time slot. Just show up and start talking.

* I am no fan of George Soros, and although he might be a political ally on particular issues he still represents one wing of the corporate elite. However, he is not bankrolling Occupy Wall Street. Support has come from countless thousands of small donations. If Soros would like to make a donation, he is welcome to do so. But if you believe he can by influence that way, let alone control, then you have no idea how Occupy Wall Street functions.

--- Steve Suffet

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Janie
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 02:40 PM

Dick,

Think Occupy Wall St. is a phase?.

It's more personal than ideological

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 06:07 PM

Make that "But if you believe he can buy influence that way,.."

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 06:32 PM

folks who were angry and frustrated about the conditions they were living under

You bet, Dick - and they had voted for the people that created the conditions they were living under, and they KEEP voting for them, against their own interests.

Sounds like morons to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 06:36 PM

Greg F. I hold no brief at all for the Tea Party---just pointing out that they provided a model for having some political clout.
The magic word is FOCUS.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 07:27 PM

Just returned from OccupyCharlotte rally and was very impressed at just how well it was organized... The younginz don't need us ol' 60's radicals tellin' 'um nuthin'... They have it down... I'm still trying to get the hand signals down but the entire way they communicate is so democratic that Tom Jefferson would love to see it...

We'll be doing it again next Saturday... One thing that was missing was drums... We always had 'um in the 60s and there were plenty in DC during the Stop-George-Bush-Insanity rallies in the Mad-dash-to-Iraq days... We need more noise... I'll make me a paint-can drum for the next one...

But all in all, very good for the first lap around the track...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 07:50 PM

In response to akenaton...

What these people are protesting about is capitalism....they dont know it and if they did could never say it and be taken seriously.

They say it all the time. There are a handful of libertarians who are part of Occupy Wall Street, and they defend capitalism per se, but say that it has become corrupted. Most of the participants, however, agree that the modern corporate capitalist system is what we are up against. I doubt that many believe it can be overthrown right away, but they do believe that some serious structural reform within capitalism is possible. Of course this is only my impression from what I have seen and heard. You will have to ask them yourself.

Any attempt to remove the Capitalist systen will be met with extreme force.....and dont think that is a joke, many thousands will die.

Certainly any attempt to remove the capitalist system by force will be dealt with that way, which is why I heard just about no Weather Underground style revolutionary posturing at Occupy Wall Street. And the little that I did hear came from old-timers, not from the young people. They understand that any armed insurrection would more likely come from the Right than from the Left. And even if there were a fully organized armed revolutionary movement, it would not only face the US Armed Forces, but it would also have to fight civilian law enforcement agencies (federal, state, local), Right-wing militia, private paramilitary security outfits such as Blackwater, organized crime syndicates, drug cartels, and if all else fails to stop them, the combined forces of NATO. In other words, it cannot be done. So the only viable alternative is nonviolent resistance, even if it is just for tactical reasons. This is what the Occupy Wall Street FAQs have to say: Finally, but crucially: This movement is comprised of thousands of people who have committed themselves to nonviolence. The one thing the powers that be understand and employ incredibly effectively around the world is the power of violence. We aim to offer a different model: a model of nonviolent direct democracy.

For fuck sake wake up.....dont you realise you are facing "the Empire".....you are not on a Sunday School picnic.

People are waking up, and many are already wide awake. The choice now is whether or not to be part of the process. If you have something to say, then say it from within. Shouting from the sidelines doesn't do any good.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 07:52 PM

September 20, 2011

President Obama continued laying what may be more groundwork for his re-election campaign Monday, including a new tax proposal. He calls it the "Buffett rule": a new tax on people making more than $1million a year, who currently pay a much lower rate than an average middle-class American. The president, in fact, proposed this rule to a group of people with a lot of millionaires in it.

The number of Americans who are millionaires is pretty low — about 1 percent of the population. Members of Congress who are millionaires? Nearly 50 percent.

That's according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan watchdog group that tracks money in politics.

Of the 435 members of the House, "244 current members of Congress are millionaires — that's about 46 percent and that includes 138 Republicans and 106 Democrats," says Center for Responsive Politics spokesman Michael Beckel.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 08:01 PM

The average net worth of the incoming freshmen House of Representatives (mostly Tea Party) was $1.4M... Richest of any freshman class in the history of the US...

And these people hate taxes... Duhhhhh!!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Janie
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 12:17 AM

Good on you, Suffet, and thanks for sharing your views as well as your experiences.

I doubt, however, based on news reports, that everyone involved with OWS demonstrations share either your expressed view in your last post or ake's view that capitalism is the root of all evil. My understanding is the protests are about unregulated capitalism, i.e. capitalism run riot. Very different from a paradigm that philosophically opposes capitalism and considers it an entirely "wrong,"entirely exploitive, or entirely ineffective socioecomic philosophy.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 12:46 AM

"Michael Moore supports the protest." A Hollywood producer who really gives a shit about humanity. The USA could use more like him. Every idiot who shot down Obama's health reform should be sentenced to a month of watching Sicko.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 12:47 AM

Saw a great bumpersticker:

I'll accept that corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 01:43 AM

Lemme see now...Soros funds 'Move on', and SIEU, and Obama, among other things, and you think Obama doesn't endorse the protesters?

Bobert rags on me for at least a dozen posts, about my exposing the Fed, for the crooks they are, and I call for them to be abolished, investigated, and put on trial...now the protesters was to end the Fed, and Bobert is ALL for it!

Lizzie: "Anger will spill over into Violence, for as Bruce says so often, if you have nothing to lose, then you feel you have everything to gain..

It is my belief we are now in the middle of World War III."

Ah, you're onto something there....but the guys who are staging it are the finance boys funding BOTH sides and playing them against the middle! What they want is complete control, digital (cashless)money, and microchips IN all their 'citizens'...and death to all those who will oppose them.
That is not too hard to figure out.
The next balloon to burst, is the surprise when a lot of you wake up!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 07:32 AM

Suffit....The system just loves non violent protest, it buys time to paint the protesters as Anarchists, Communists,etc etc......I know from personal experience that before long they become isolated and their motives misrepresented.

I dont need to ask anyone how it works, as I have fought Capitalism all my life.

Unity is a must, and for the left,that means compromise.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 07:42 AM

Gotta go for a bit, Ake. But I'll tell you about wing chun when I get back. It may change your thinking on that.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 09:13 AM

My new favorite Bumper Sticker:
"If your solution to the country's problems will fit on a bumper sticker, please don't vote"

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 09:38 AM

Alex Jones on Occupy The Federal Reserve

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 10:07 AM

Gosh, Lizzie, I hadn't seen that before. Very interesting!..and a lot of what he was saying is true!...and VERY close to what I've been harping on to our fellow Mudcatter left extremist, armchair ideologues!!!

LIZZIE-BABES!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 10:18 AM

One small group in yesterday's gathering were "Paul/2012" people... Some of the OWSers are kinda all over the place with their particular bones of contention... I can live with that... A couple had signs against the Federal Reserve, too... I can live with that... I mean, the general consensus is that the working class is getting screwed by the upper 1%... Everyone there, regardless of their per peeves, was on that page...

I think we do need, however, to talk about the realities of a Ron Paul presidency that would double the number of people living in poverty... I thinks some youngins think Paul is just about ending the wars so they don't fully think things out... Same with the Fed... I mean, we live in a global economy and if we have no way of regulation the value of our currency then we will lose market shares of US made goods... China does it... India does it... Europe does it... It is a tool to compete... The Fed may not be perfect but without it we are taking one of our most powerful tools out of the tool box and watching even more unemployment...

I have no problems articulating this as I continue with this current group of folks... Some times you just have to take someone and do a one-on-one with them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 10:36 AM

Bobert: "I think we do need, however, to talk about the realities of a Ron Paul presidency that would double the number of people living in poverty..."......and so on and so forth..blah blah..

I think the FED is the root of all your misplaced, ridiculous 'information'. I think you ought to look in THAT direction, and get off your Democratic Party shill routine. It's been LONG overdue!
I just read the 'Popular views on Obama' thread for the first time, in a REAL long time..and you are getting the snot whipped out of you...and its for only ONE thing.....your block-headed adherence to the Democrat hypocrisy....Hey, do you think I like to see my fellow musician friends get beat up, and take the fall, over a pack of lies, they happen to believe in..and then start peddling?
Step back, take a look
And you Republicans should do the same thing.
You are both in control by your cronies!.....and they are extorting both parties, and the American public, as well as Europe, and the mid-east.
The party politics game is wearing out.
Gosh, maybe there will be the 'Anti-Party Party'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 11:10 AM

Putting one's faith in either the Democrats or the Republicans to solve the country's problems is like expecting one's problems to be solved by a choice between...

Hitler and Mussolini

Stalin and Mao Tse-Tung

Al Capone and Lucky Luciano

Pretty Boy Floyd and Baby Face Nelson

Ronald McDonald and the A & W Great Root Bear

Peter Griffin and Homer Simpson

Yes, you may have your personal "favorite" out of any of the above pairs of so-called "choices"......but don't kid yourself that it's going to solve your problems! It's going to add to your problems.

And yet, you appear to have no other choice. Could that be because the game is fixed and your vote is just a rubber stamp for those who control the game? Who is the little man behind the curtain in the Land of Oz? I'll give you a clue. It's not just one man. It's many men and a few women. It's a consortium of special interests, and you don't get to vote either for them or against them, because your electoral system simply doesn't give you any way to do that, because the consortium of special interests pre-selects the candidates you get to vote for...in all but a very few cases...simply because it takes a lot of money to undertake and win an election campaign...and the consortium of special interests are the primary source of that money. They definitely pre-select the candidates for the top positions, such as the president.

And that is why the president works for THEM, not for you, once he's in office.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 11:12 AM

Greetings:

From the very beginnings of the United States of America, monetary policy was one of the nation's great divisive issues. It was what was behind Shays' rebellion, Hamilton's plan to for the federal government to assume the states' debts, the struggles over the First and Second Bank of the United States, the Panic of 1837, the issuance of Greenbacks (US Notes, i.e. unsecured paper currency), the repeal of bimetalism (ie. a dual gold and silver standard with the ratio fixed by law) in 1873, The Bland-Allison Silver Purchase Act of 1878, the Sherman Silver Purchase Act of 1890, William Jennings Bryan's "Cross of Gold" speech, and more. By the beginning of the 20th century there were hard money Democrats, hard money Republicans, soft money Democrats, and soft money Republicans, as well as many voices from minor parties, all tugging in different directions. So in 1913, the factions of the two major parties agreed on a truce that would take the question of monetary policy out of the political arena (i.e. Congress) and turn it over to a board of supposedly non-partisan experts. That truce was the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, and that board of supposedly non-partisan experts would be almost entirely composed of bankers. So it has been for the past 98 years.

Ron Paul and his supporters are delusional if they think the USA can return to the gold standard, or even to bimetalism. Tying our country's money supply to a commodity, especially one like gold which would leave us at the mercy of Russia, is pure lunacy. We need a system that can regulate the value of our currency in a rational way. Right now we have the Federal Reserve System. Can it be made more accountable and democratic without returning our country to the pitched battles of the 18th and 19th centuries? Probably, but that's not what the anti-Fed people are asking for. Are they?

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 08:19 PM

Well stated, Suffet... The anti- government people will ***believe*** and anti-government conspiracy theory that the wackos can think up with no regard to either knowledge of economics or facts...

Normal...

"Well, the scientists say
It'll all wash away
But we don't believe
in them any more...

Flat earthers UNITE!!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: gnu
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 09:55 PM

So... where is it all going? I mean, what is going to happen in the end of it all? War with China?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 10:03 PM

Ain't about war with China, gn-ze... Neither economy needs that... Both need to grow at 4%... Not one at 8% and the other at 2%...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 10:30 PM

Meanwhile, please click here for a YouTube video of me singing my song Union Warriors at the Occupy Wall Street encampment in New York City on Friday, October 7, 2011. Yes, I am playing my sensational Felix the Cat Martin guitar.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 10:43 PM

The Tea Party is anti-tax, but the original Boston tea party was against the BRITISH taxing America and sending the money back to Britain. Alexander Hamilton the first U.S. Treasury secretary built America's financial policy based on the need to tax Americans. He knew that to run a prosperous and secure independent country requires taxing the population - equally.

Hamilton established new taxes on liquor, tea, and coffee. His plan was an economic success: the federal government quickly established a solid credit rating, consolidated its debts at low interest rates, and began paying them down rapidly. His plan also led to the new nation's first anti-tax rebellion. In western states, farmers refused to pay the new tax on whiskey (which was sometimes used as a medium of exchange), leading to armed rebellion in Pennsylvania. In 1794, President Washington raised a federal militia and dispatched it to western Pennsylvania. The Whiskey Rebellion collapsed, cementing the federal government's power to levy and collect taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 11:00 PM

In other words the current Tea Party has hijacked the views of the original founding fathers and misrepresented them.

Why are people occupying Wall St? Bankers took advantage of deregulation to cause massive inflation through reckless lending. Paying themselves big bucks - then were bailed out by taxpayers when everything collapsed.

The upper 1% of Americans are now taking in nearly a quarter of the nation's income every year. The top 1 percent control 40 percent of the wealth. Twenty-five years ago, the corresponding figures were 12 percent at the top held 33% of the wealth.

How can this be democratic? Look to Norway and other northern European countries for a better economic model. And with this goes better social justioe for their people as well.

I hope Washington listens to these protests - the people in the streets can't access politicians the way lobbyists can, this way they are getting heard. Follow the REAL traditions of the Founding Fathers and tax the big boys, like everyone else, and spread the wealth into schools, hospitals and jobs.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 11:06 PM

Yeah, this entire movement is about justice...

Period...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Etan
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 12:21 AM

I've taken a day off from Occupy Wall Street to return to normal life as a family guy, and to nurse my sore feet. I will tell you what I've seen, from my perspective, and I'll answer any non-argumentative questions.

I'm not sleeping in Liberty Plaza, which is already overcrowded, but spending a great deal of my non-working time there. What we do mostly is talk & listen and try to figure out what we agree on as reasonable goals and reasonable strategies to get them.

Political opinions in the plaza range from Ron Paul libertarian to the usual array of communist factions. However, most people are in the middle: you can call them frustrated progressive Democrats and you probably wouldn't be far off. I think most people in the plaza would describe themselves as patriotic. They want to see America set back on a course that provides some degree of economic security and democracy. I think most would agree with Roosevelt's second bill of rights and Eisenhower's appraisal of the military industrial complex.

The average person sleeping in the plaza is necessarily young and jobless though often college educated with a history of work. Conditions are very rough without tents, port-o-sans, or showers. There is almost no organization of sleeping areas. People are tossing their foam pads, sleeping bags, and tarps wherever they can, which is often quite close to foot traffic. There is constant city noise, even during quiet hours, and there is the constant threat of a police raid in the middle of the night. People are running on short sleep and with much tension, and they are often cold and wet. It makes your worst festival experience look like a luxury hotel.

Older people usually drop by during the day, as I do. Some are members of the unions that support the action, some are old leftists, and some are just frustrated with the state of the economy and corporate power. It's true that the 'kids' are running the show. They are inexperienced, but they're learning.

Saturday's two marches and rally in Washington Square Park pretty much went off without a negative incident. We have been described as an unruly mob, etc. We showed that to be a lie by our behavior during this event. Police instructions were observed during the march. The rally did not disrupt anything besides a few buskers pitches. Nothing was looted, vandalized, trashed, etc. People behaved themselves responsibly. Even the punk kids have begun to understand our role in convincing the average working person that we are on their side.

Mark Ross, Bruce Murdoch, and I have worked up a new version of "Which Side Are You On". I have an updated version of "Whitehouse Blues" which has been well received. I'm working on an updated "Keep Your Eyes on the Prize" or "Keep Your Hand on the Plow." I hope to organize small groups of street singers to go out into the streets of the financial district during work week rush and lunch hours. New York is generally tolerant of unamplified sidewalk busking. I will take suggestions for other easy to learn and sing political songs.

I realize that I've been rambling on here. To paraphrase Mark Twain, I'd have written a shorter post, but I didn't have enough time.

If you have questions about what's going on, please email me directly, and I'll try to answer. I'll post the new lyrics to White House Blues with a Lyric Add heading. Best wishes to everyone.

-- Etan

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 12:32 AM

I guess the bottom line is Bobert's BIG MEDIA blackballing is another Bobert "fact"

If you have the time Bobert, please define justice.

I hope you won't avoid it with your usual blowhard "do it yourself" avoidance routine like you do about the "shitload of Dixiecrats" that you know nothing about.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 02:20 AM

Etan, thank you for your on-the-spot report.

I'll try to think of some good songs.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 06:32 AM

The movement may be about justice guys ......but Capitalism shure isn't, in fact Capitalism is about injustice, as you have all just witnessed.

The bank bailouts, the printing of money, the attacks on public services, were all unjust, but very necessary to keep the system alive.
Do you want your cake and eat it? Do you really believe you can have Capitalism AND justice?

To the people who run Mr Obama and the system, we have become uncompetitive, useless and completely dispensible, any growth in our economy will now be engendered by the exploitation of people and resources in the East.....we will be viewed as simply consumers with very little money to purchase consumables.

Our lifestyle is about to take an nosedive, appropriate to our value to the system.

We cant fight them, we cant appeal to their sense of justice, we are of no commercial value to them, our only chance is to understand that the lifestyle we have grown accustomed to has gone for ever, no tweaking will ever repair what is an inevitable part of the Capitalist cycle.......Good news????.....Now we are free to explore alternatives, but dont let anyone tell you that these alternatives will be either "democratic", easy, or "liberal".....survival trumps any of those.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 07:44 AM

Saw a sit-in of students last week in Seville Cathedral, protesting the cuts in education, witnessed 2 street demonstrations there and on our way home on Sunday we passed the Wall Street-type protest-alike outside the Central Bank in Dublin's Dame Street.
Good luck to all
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 09:04 AM

Good points, Etan...

Here in Occupy Charlotte, it's about the same... Maybe 5% fringe people and 95% middle/moderate progressive Dems and Greens...

There's one trap that I think we don't need to be getting into at this point and that would be specific policy positions... I mean, there's a world of difference between demanding campaign finance reform and getting into the nuts and bolts... Just demanding "justice" in the way we elect officials is, IMHO, as far as OWS needs to go and then be ready to see what the folks in Congress do about out demand...

This is why, again IMHO, we need to push hard for "justice" on all fronts, demand that our leaders will act to correct the corruption and be ready to call them if they play ballgames...

BTW, Occupy Charlotte's next demonstration/general assemble meeting is for this Saturday at 3:00 at Trade and Davidson for anyone within driving range...

As for the usual pest, Saws... It wasn't until 700 people were arrested in New York that OWS got any attention from BIG MEDIA... But I'm not going to play any ballgames with you on this thread because you are not capable of looking at the big picture...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: ollaimh
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 12:01 PM

the "capitalism" offered by the right in the usa is an extension of the british "laissez faire" capitalism of the old empire. chri hedges has called it inverted totalitarianism. i prefer just totalitarianism capitalism, or militray capitalism. it's free enterprse for only those conected to the corporate elite and poverty and death to everybody else. totalitarianisn capitalism wil devour the planet and render higher life forms unsustainable at the rate it's going.

they are more interested in war and eternal oil dependancy that a rational economy for people. i supported the wall street bailout but in a different way. take back equity in the banks bailed out for the cash. not a giveaway. then you can do the forensic accounting to find the real criminals of our time. however we got this give away instead . showing that free enterprise and competition is only for the poor and unconnected not for the corporate elte.

of course the whole mess was the direct result of the foolishness of the bush years of an ruinously expensive war in iraq and un believable deficits. if that kind of money had been put into alternate energy resourses we would be well on the way to energy self sufficiency in north america now! and we could let the saudis et al drift back into the obscurity they deserve.

however that wouldn't feed the corporate military budgets and the oil boys like dick cheney and buch. remember cheney was head of haliburton.

americans are so easily rilled up by red herring issues i don't know how you get controll of te republic from the corporate elite, but untill it happens the disaster will get worse and worse. remember we haven't even hit the reall problems comming from global warming and resource exhaustion. and are we prepared. or even tinking of preparing?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 12:10 PM

"Despite his rhetorical attacks on Wall Street, a study by the Sunlight Foundation's Influence Project shows that President Barack Obama has received more money from Wall Street than any other politician over the past 20 years, including former President George W. Bush.
In 2008, Wall Street's largesse accounted for 20 percent of Obama's total take, according to Reuters.
When asked by The Daily Caller to comment about President Obama's credibility when it comes to criticizing Wall Street, the White House declined to reply....

In fact, the Sunlight Foundation, a nonpartisan watchdog group that tracks lobbyist spending and influence in both parties, found that President Obama has received more money from Bank of America than any other candidate dating back to 1991.
An examination of the numbers shows that Obama took in $421,242 in campaign contributions in 2008 from Bank of America's executives, PACs and employees, which exceeded its prior record contribution of $329,761 to President George W. Bush in 2004.
According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Wall Street firms also contributed more to Obama's 2008 campaign than they gave to Republican nominee John McCain.
"The securities and investment industry is Obama's second largest source of bundlers, after lawyers, at least 56 individuals have raised at least $8.9 million for his campaign," Massie Ritsch wrote in a Sept. 18, 2008 entry on the Center for Responsive Politics's OpenSecrets blog.
By the end of Barack Obama's 2008 campaign, executives and others connected with Wall Street firms, such as Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Citigroup, UBS AG, JPMorgan Chase, and Morgan Stanley, poured nearly $15.8 million into his coffers.
Goldman Sachs contributed slightly over $1 million to Obama's 2008 presidential campaign, compared with a little over $394,600 to the 2004 Bush campaign. Citigroup gave $736,771 to Obama in 2008, compared with $320,820 to Bush in 2004. Executives and others connected with the Swiss bank UBS AG donated $539,424 to Obama's 2008 campaign, compared with $416,950 to Bush in 2004. And JP Morgan Chase gave Obama's campaign $808,799 in 2008, but did not show up among Bush's top donors in 2004, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
Obama's close relationship with JP Morgan Chase was highlighted earlier this year when he tapped Bill Daley, a former top executive with the bank, to replace Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff.
Wall Street's generosity to Obama didn't end with his 2008 campaign either. Wall Street donors contributed $4.8 million to underwrite Obama's inauguration, according to a Jan. 15, 2009 Reuters report.
So far Wall Street has raised $7.2 million in the current electoral cycle for President Obama, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Obama's 2012 Wall Street bundlers include people like Jon Corzine, former Goldman Sachs CEO and former New Jersey governor; Azita Raji, a former investment banker for JP Morgan; and Charles Myers, an executive with the investment bank Evercore Partners...."



http://news.yahoo.com/obama-attacks-banks-while-raking-wall-street-dough-044804642.html

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 12:15 PM

Bobert: "
"Well, the scientists say
It'll all wash away
But we don't believe
in them any more...

Flat earthers UNITE!!!!"


They did!!...and formed political parties!!!! (Yours included, BTW)!!

Bobert: "As for the usual pest, Saws... It wasn't until 700 people were arrested in New York that OWS got any attention from BIG MEDIA... But I'm not going to play any ballgames with you on this thread because you are not capable of looking at the big picture..."

FALSE!!! It was one the 'news' before ANYONE was arrested....unless you get your 'news' from re-runs of 'Felix the Cat'....(which wouldn't surprise me!)

................

Do not confuse 'capitalism' with 'corporatism'...and furthermore GLOBALIST CORPORATISM. The are TWO distinct things.
One is akin to 'communism', and the other is a way to get compensated for your work.

(Actually, I'm pretty tired with ALL 'isms'! You'd think by now people would get tired of segregating themselves into 'elite' groups, based on manipulated ideologies, and return to the FAMILY of man!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 12:29 PM

That is exactly what we NEED to do GfS.....but first we have to understand that humanity has a finite standard of living.
If a section goes over that standard.....another section suffers.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 01:39 PM

Say what all ya want: OWS is happening, and that's the long and short of it.

Thanks to both Steve and Etan for the info. We don't get all that much from the 'news'.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 01:53 PM

Here's the deal, bb...

Who gave what to whom is no longer traceable... Anything that anyone writes about this amount or than amount has nothing to do with reality... The Supreme Court has ruled that it is none of our business who, domestic of foreign, buys our elections and owns the folks in Congress...

This is reality...

So much for paid rightie bloggers who pour 40 hours a week into playing the "numbers games"... If the left had those resources and hired an equal number of bloggers, stat men, etc they would undoubtedly turn the story 180 degrees around...

The problem here is that until we find a way to balance the playing field, where all views are heard and BIG money is taken out of politics, we will not have democracy...

That's what OWS is about...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 01:54 PM

BTW, good to hear from you, bruce...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 02:07 PM

"Who gave what to whom is no longer traceable... Anything that anyone writes about this amount or than amount has nothing to do with reality."

The numbers in the article posted are those that ARE TRACEABLE- showing that Obama is more "Bought and Paid For" than even GWB.

YET YOU still make claims about the Right, and deny them about the Left....

Seems like YOU have a real problem with looking at ANY facts that are brought up, unless they support what YOU want us to believe.




"where all views are heard and BIG money is taken out of politics, "

You mean like NOT calling anyone who opposes the policies of the present administration Racist, and NOT letting the present administration buy the election as they did in 2008, spending far more money than those who disagreed with them???

Or do you only apply balance to the OTHER side??







btw, congrats on the Blues Challenge win.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 03:04 PM

"This is reality"- No one has it right except me.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 03:35 PM

...from a recent post:

"Obama's close relationship with JP Morgan Chase was highlighted earlier this year when he tapped Bill Daley, a former top executive with the bank, to replace Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff."

That say a lot about Obama's allegiances.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 04:06 PM

As far as I can see, Obama's allegiance is to the same basic cartel of special interests that Bush's allegiance was to....disguised by the illusion of the 2-party system, a two-headed monster that fights public battles against itself to keep the public divided against themselves just like people cheering for two baseball teams at the World Series. The 2 teams are employed by the same league. The league cashes in when you buy your ticket to "see the game". You pick the team you like the best, hate the other team, and the game goes on. The team that wins the championship (the election) gets a big bonus and gets to hold the cup (office) for 2 to 4 years (depending on which level of the office). This ensure that those 2 bogus teams will play damn hard whenever they're out on the field, and they will use any dirty tactic to win and secure the spoils of victory, but they don't do it for you. They work for their rich owners and for the league of rich owners...and their own personal gain.

It's a charade. The people you elect don't work for you any more than the baseball players you go to see at the World Series. They work for their owners. And who are their owners? Bankers and corporate CEOs, that's who. You know...those people who make 1,000 times more money than you ever will, but don't work any harder than you do? That's who owns the Republican and Democratic Parties...a set of corporate vampires who suck the lifeblood from society and make money from waging war.

Your traditional loyalty to one party and your hatred of the other is not going to deliver you from the oppression you are under...only sink you deeper in the illusion. And it will end up making you hate one another. This thread (and all the other political threads) are stark proof of that.