Folk Against Fascism

Subject: Folk Against Fascism
From: Folknacious
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 10:53 AM

Apologies if this has already been flagged up, but I was just emailed news of this new Facebook group and organisation which seems to have gone from nothing to nearly 600 members in less than two days.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: bubblyrat
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:06 AM

Depends what you mean by "Fascism"-----a great many people today seem to be confusing it with Patriotism,sadly.One only has to calmly and logically express the opinion (to which one is fully entitled)that there is too much uncontrolled immigration into this country (UK)and people are jumping up and down crying "Racist ! "--"Fascist!"--"Nazi !" in a frenzy of Do -Goodery. Please calm down,and allow the majority to be heard properly before slandering them.Then go and live in the country of your favourite foreign ethnic group (if they'll have you !!).And try not to mix politics with folk music, it gets very TEDIOUS.Thankyou.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:07 AM

Folk Against Fascism is growing by leaps and bounds, as it should, treminding one (even though I'm too young to really remember) of
Rock Against Racism

May the spirit never die!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:11 AM

"And try not to mix politics with folk music, it gets very TEDIOUS.Thankyou"

Your listening must be very limited in that case, as a large amount of folk music(whatever that is)is politically oriented. Time to take off the blinkers and take some social responsibilty. It was the head in the sand attitude that brought Hitler to his full flowering.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Gervase
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:13 AM

And try not to mix politics with folk music, it gets very TEDIOUS.Thankyou.
Honestly, there's no hope for some people!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:17 AM

"And try not to mix politics with folk music, it gets very TEDIOUS.Thankyou."

Bubblyrat, I think you might not be appreciating the purpose of the campaign.

It's not as such a 'political' movement (though it's going to be impossible for it not to become so), as demonstrating a collective dissaproval of fascist politics currently deliberately appropriating our collective folk music as a form of pro-fascist propaganda - precisely as happened in Nazi Germany. As others have commented German folk music has never fully recovered from the stain of being forced into prostitution to very dark political ends.

This is not a 'politicising' of folk music as such, but an attempt to reclaim it from those who *ARE* currently politicising it to a fascist agenda. I hope you might recognise the difference.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Banjiman
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:22 AM

"And try not to mix politics with folk music, it gets very TEDIOUS.Thankyou. "

How else do we counter the odious BNP threat...... or do you think their policy of repatriation for non-whites is a good one?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:23 AM

PS. JoanC good job!

I don't do Facebook, so I hope that this thread might perhaps offer the rest of us, an update on progress.
Much interested to hear more, and hopefully participate in any ways appropriate.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,Rich Arrowsmith
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:25 AM

It was started because the f******* BNP have said that they are the only people who can save Morris dancing and folk customs. This site is for people to say that they don't want the BNP talking for or having anything to do with English customs. We can manage them ourselves without help from scum like that.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:27 AM

Just accept the fact that politics has been involved in folk music (whatever that is) for a VERY long time.
Sorry to be soooooooo... tedious *LOL*

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:28 AM

I most certainly do not confuse patriotism with xenophobia or fascism, but I do not recognise the bubblyrat version as capable of being distinguished from the sordid peddlings of the BNP.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Banjiman
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:33 AM

I don't do facebook either.... any chance of starting a MySpace page as well?

Paul Arrowsmith

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:40 AM

You may have to do Facebook...I've said the same thing, but JoanieC is tempting me.... *sigh*

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:42 AM

Aye... I hate those FakeFriends sites (except music), but I might join for this.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:43 AM

Myspace is on its way, as is a website.

The website will be for information about plans - everything from making stickers and badges available to a large-scale concert or tour (and given some of the people already supporting this, we're not talking pie-in-the-sky - something exciting is going to happen). The Myspace will hopefully help the community to grow, and showcase some of the artists who are involved.

Considering that this whole idea is only a day old, I'm frankly staggered at the response. It's clearly hit a nerve with a lot of people.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Banjiman
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:45 AM

Eddie/ Joan,

Anything either we or Kirkby Fleetham Folk Club can do to help..... just let me know.

Paul & Wendy Arrowsmith

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:50 AM

Right at this moment I'm listening to the Albion Country Band's Battle of the Field, particularly Richard Thompson's The New St. George/La Rotta, on my MP3 player. It's VERY inspiring, I want to get up and dance, unfortunately I'm in the library...they might fron a bit *LOL*

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:51 AM

Cheers - that's great.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Lox
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:52 AM

Thing is bubblyrat that when questioned, you have said on other threads that your reason for being concerned about immigration basically boils down to not liking different looking people around.

I could go and get the post - I think it might have been in the carol thatcher thread - but your big concern was that basically you didn't see why you had to have foreigners in your town, for no other reason than that it is your town and you don't like them there.

In the absence of any other rationale, that is best described as discriminating on the basis of someone elses race.


That's why people shout "racist" - its cos of the racist things you say.


Generally I think its realistic, if you say racist things, to expect someone to call you racist.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 11:54 AM

"given some of the people already supporting this, we're not talking pie-in-the-sky - something exciting is going to happen"

It's fantastic. I've been in something of a rash over this stuff since I cottoned on when I first got into folk six months ago. Wonderful to see someone like JoanC who's so perfectly placed to do so, ready to take the bulldog by the balls... So to speak. Really exciting news.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:00 PM

Yeah...already kinda waiting for the poo to be posted through my door.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,Rich Arrowsmith
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:02 PM

Rifleman!! My favourite album! My copy has got scratched to bits, I need another.

'When the sun comes up in the morning, and you hear the dancing boys...'

Rich

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:03 PM

>Archer ref. eventually clicks...!< :-)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:03 PM

Folk singers were among those on the CND marches and sang the songs in the folk clubs.
Folk singers demonstrated at the Anti- Vietnam rallies and sang the songs in the folk clubs.
Folk singers demonstrated against the Poll Tax and sang anti - Thatcher songs in the folk clubs.
Now it looks like there will be some anti - BNP songs sung in the folk clubs and festivals.
Sounds like it has been pretty "tedious" for the last fifty years!!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:13 PM

Let me know about the MySpace, Joan, and anything I can do. Tom.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:15 PM

Depends what you mean by "Fascism"-----a great many people today seem to be confusing it with Patriotism,sadly.

Nope perfectly clear in my mind.

The BNP are a fascist party and there is a video of Nick Griffin denying the holocaust.

Filthy race based politics and Folk Against Fascism is designed to stop these people infiltrating (as per their orgnisers handbook) into local folk customs.

Well done Joanie.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:23 PM

I also want to say "Well done!" to JoanC.

I have a MySpace page but don't have a FaceBook account. I'll jump on board when the MySpace page is launched.

**

Dave listed these examples of folk singer's involvement in politics:


Folk singers were among those on the CND marches and sang the songs in the folk clubs.
Folk singers demonstrated at the Anti- Vietnam rallies and sang the songs in the folk clubs.
Folk singers demonstrated against the Poll Tax and sang anti - Thatcher songs in the folk clubs.

-snip-

Expanding this list outside of Britain, Folk singers sang songs during the civil rights movement in the USA.

It might be a good idea to include such a listing on the FaceBook/MySpace pages or at least on the upcoming Folk Against Fascism website.

What else can be added to this list?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:24 PM

Rich I still have my copy (given to me for my 21st bithday, by my parents)on vinyl, very scratched like yours *LOL* My sister found it on CD, in, of all places, a chain record shop (A&B Sound) in Victoria, BC, Canada, and I've transfered it to my MP/ player for listening when I want to (like now)

Now is the time for action,
Leave your satisfaction:
Can't you hear St George's tune?
St George's tune is calling you on!
Freedom was your mother,
Fight for one another:

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:27 PM

well done, Joan.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:28 PM

BTW, if the FaceBook and MySpace Folk Against Fascism pages are meant to have international membership* you might want to stay away from or at least define the acronyms.

For instance, I don't know what "CND" means in this sentence "Folk singers were among those on the CND marches and sang the songs in the folk clubs."

* It occurs to me that maybe that organization is only meant for people living in Europe. Can some one clarify this?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: mandotim
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:30 PM

Well done Joan, I'm in.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:34 PM

Azizi, it's for anyone who opposes what the BNP is currently doing in the UK by trying to appropriate our national customs and music as part of their racist agenda, or indeed what any White Supremacist organisation (for, by identifying that they share values with the KKK, this is what they are) do when they try and usurp a national identity and claim it as theirs and theirs alone.

The focus will largely be on the campaign as it unfolds in the UK. But you will be most welcome. :)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:38 PM

Azizi:

THe people who first used what later became the "Peace" symbol were British anti-nuke demonstrators who frequently marched under the flag of the Committee for Nuclear Disarmament, with banners showing the semaphoric lines-in-a-circle that (rumor has it) was first designed by GB Shaw. The symbol was taken up and made even more widely known by the youth of the Sixties in the US who used it to symbolize protest against the LBJ War in Vietnam.

A

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:40 PM

Correction:

"One of the most widely known symbols in the world, in Britain it is recognised as standing for nuclear disarmament —and in particular as the logo of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND). In the United States and much of the rest of the world it is known more broadly as the peace symbol. It was designed in 1958 by Gerald Holtom, a professional designer and artist and a graduate of the Royal College of Arts. He showed his preliminary sketches to a small group of people in the Peace News office in North London and to the Direct Action Committee Against Nuclear War, one of several smaller organisations that came together to set up CND.

The Direct Action Committee had already planned what was to be the first major anti-nuclear march, from London to Aldermaston, where British nuclear weapons were and still are manufactured. It was on that march, over the 1958 Easter weekend that the symbol first appeared in public. Five hundred cardboard lollipops on sticks were produced. Half were black on white and half white on green. Just as the church's liturgical colours change over Easter, so the colours were to change, "from Winter to Spring, from Death to Life." Black and white would be displayed on Good Friday and Saturday, green and white on Easter Sunday and Monday.

The first badges were made by Eric Austin of Kensington CND using white clay with the symbol painted black. Again there was a conscious symbolism. They were distributed with a note explaining that in the event of a nuclear war, these fired pottery badges would be among the few human artifacts to survive the nuclear inferno. These early ceramic badges can still be found and one, lent by CND, was included in the Imperial War Museum's 1999/2000 exhibition From the Bomb to the Beatles. "

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:44 PM

Great idea Joan. I've joined up. BTW, I reckon if they come knocking you'd be better off pushing the dogpoo out of the letter box at them!

Now off to listen to 'Battle of the Field' on the way home...

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:45 PM

Thanks for that clarification, Eddie. Count me in!

I guess because the organization is for anyone who opposes the BNP's attempt or any other White Supremacist organization's attempt to appropriate British national customs and music as part of their racist strategies, you may not have to include explanations of what all those more obscure (to non-British people) alphabet references like CND mean. However, it still might be something that you want to provide on your page or website for those who are supporting the organization from outside of the UK.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 12:47 PM

Well done to JoanieC for setting this up. Another disturbing feature of the European election results has been the election of MEPs from the extreme Jobbik party in Hungary. This is an openly anti-semitic party which has also supported persecution of the Roma community. This Observer report of 3 May 2009 shows how widespread and dangerous the persecution of Gypsies in Hungary has already become, and what the Jobbik policy towards the Roma means.

So since June 2009 is Gypsy Roma Traveller History Month lets celebrate the cultural achievements of these communities too. There is a very interesting looking DVD on sale called 'The First Traveller' with songs stories and music, including a contribution from Sheila Stewart MBE.

Matthew Edwards

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 01:04 PM

Folk Against Fascism Myspace


I should add that while I've actually been working today, other people have been beavering away at this stuff. Steve Hunt made the Myspace. Chris Williams made the logo. All credit. I'm just the messenger.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 01:53 PM

I'm there, on both.
My concern is that there should be follow-up; not just people signing up and thinking they've done their bit. This isn't simply a petition, I see it as signing-on for action.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Banjiman
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 01:55 PM

Agreed George.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 01:58 PM

Oh, that CNP

:o)

Yes, I know that symbol as "the peace symbol".

Thanks for that info.

And btw, I've joined the MySpace page and will forward information about that page to my MySpace friends.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Barden of England
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:08 PM

I've put the following on my 'Facebook' page

'In memory of my Tollpudle brothers, I am delighted to join my fellows in the 'Folk against fascism' fight.

We ARE the power, we ARE the might,
we ARE the ones, who will show what's wrong and right.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: bubblyrat
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:14 PM

Well, I just watched the evening news on BBC television,and was saddened to see and hear about the disruption to the BNP's Press Conference----it would have been interesting to see what they had to say !! This organisation,which I do NOT support ( I voted Green & UKIP in the recent elections,if you must know), is,however, NOT illegal (sadly) and therefore there is NO justification for the crass behaviour of the baying mob that disrupted its activities. So who is being the more intolerant, controlling,bigoted,selective and prejudiced here then ?? Even if you HATE HATE HATE the BNP,which most of you / us do, they STILL HAVE THE RIGHT ,in our democracy,both to their views and to be heard.Only a REAL FASCIST would deny them that !!! That's the point that I am trying to get across,that my father fought for in WW2,and to which your intense HATRED has blinded you.There are ways to get rid of the BNP---But yours is not it ! Or is Democracy itself that you REALLY hate,because that's how you are coming across ? Is it too permissive for your Fascist views ??

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Banjiman
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:18 PM

Bubblyrat.... I don't think anyone here were involved in disrupting their Press conference..... surely in this country of free speech we are allowed to get our point across as well?

Through words and songs I hope!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Gervase
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:20 PM

Sorry? Mine's not what?
The Folk Against Fascism campaign has nothing whatsoever to do with denying free speech or chucking eggs at people. Shaky eggs, maybe...

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:23 PM

As far as I know, it was no member of the Folk Against Fascism group that threw eggs at Nick Griffin, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

This is about a specific agenda and set of policies - the appropriation of British traditional music and culture to suit a racist and nationalist agenda. It's about raising awareness of that attampted appropriation, and standing up against it. It is not about throwing eggs at Nick Griffin or preventing him from speaking, no matte rhow poisonous his views might be, and not long before you psoted on this matter, I was explaining exactly that to my 15 year old daughter.

So I'm not sure who you're screeching at, but I think your tirade might be somewhat misdirected.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Barden of England
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:28 PM

It's DEMOCRACY. I have no truck with what went on today. It's the same as Mandelson getting green custard in the face though - and I didn't see your comment on that 'bubblyrat'
The BNP has a right to exist, and we have the right to harrangue, verbally not physically, so I believe the idiots who threw eggs today have done the BNP a favour. Woe is me.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:55 PM

No hate over here, Roger. Quite a lot of joy in fact, at living in a multi-ethnic, multicultural street, and I celebrated it in a song, which hopefully should be going up on the FAF Myspace page soon (thanks, Steve), albeit in a rough, unmixed version. It is intended as the opening track of my upcoming album, so it puts my stake in the ground so to speak. Here goes:

STREET LIFE (October 2008 - all the characters are real)

Monday morning, treading softly as I leave the house for work
Chris next door had late shift Sunday night
Full-time guard and part-time fireman, not a moment to himself
And to wake him up would not be right.
Tuesday and Mujeeb's good lady's grinding spices for their meal
Aromas through the window they escape
We all stop outside a moment just to savour the perfume
It's a wonder how he stays in shape
   A different story every day of the week
   As different as chalk and cheese the faces that you meet
   And I don't care much where they come from
   Who they pray to, what they eat,
   But I am lucky living down our street

Seven thirty, engines starting, scrapers scratching at the ice
Hunter gatherers barely half awake
Smiling grimly at each other, p'rhaps today will turn out nice
Thursday morning, two more trips to make
Janusz waiting by his front door for his morning lift to come
Sandwich and banana in a towel
All day working up the scaffold to bring home his daily crumb
He's so good with mortar board and trowel
   A different story every day of the week
   As different as chalk and cheese the faces that you meet
   And I don't care much where they come from
   Who they pray to, what they eat,
   But I am lucky living down our street

Love you Mummy, Love you Daddy, down at Number 54
Little angels on their way to school
Hop skip jumping to whatever life might have for them in store
May their winter years never be cruel.
Friday night, the youngsters heading for the town to paint it red
Learning lessons others learned before
They'll be back before the day breaks, empty pockets, throbbing heads
(they'd) Better not be banging on the door
   A different story every day of the week
   As different as chalk and cheese the faces that you meet
   And I don't care much where they come from
   Who they pray to, what they eat,
   But I am lucky living down our street

Sunday morning, dozen mowers buzzing like a swarm of bees
Perfect time for barbecue and beer
Cross the valley watch the walkers chasing dogs among the trees
And I swear that I've just seen a deer.
Sunday evening, all is quiet, windows darken one by one
Like a tunnel swallowing a train
Soon enough alarms will ring like cockerels heralding the sun
And we'll start the cycle once again
   A different story every day of the week
   As different as chalk and cheese the faces that you meet
   And I don't care much where they come from
   Who they pray to, what they eat,
   But I am lucky living down our street

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 02:58 PM

Bubblyrat...if you're not going to help, please don't hinder those of us who're prepared to stand and be counted!

It's that simple!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,Lock and Key
Date: 09 Jun 09 - 03:11 PM

Well said (as usual) George.