Does Folk Exist?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 02:00 PM

Captain Birdseye
please let us know what you have done,in the folk revival....ever done anything original,or are you a plagiarist.

Seems like poor old Rifleman can't win, Dick. If he does something original it's not folk by the 1954 definition - and if he doesn't do anything original, i.e. plays traditional tunes, then he's just a plagiarist.

Care to re-phrase the question...?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 02:29 PM

Does that make all traddies plagiarists then?

I'll get me coat...

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 02:32 PM

no,
and I have never mentioned the 1954 definition.
Rifleman,is an appropriate name,he keeps sniping away.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 06:01 PM

Actually I was answering several questions in one posting, makes sense eh?
Ahh.... the poor captain hasn't got a single thing right about me, never mind me not being able to win. Sniping...? Apparently I've been hitting the target.

-------------------------------

"Does that make all traddies plagiarists then?"

not traddies per se, but I can think of one or two of the traddies heroes at whom that term could be levelled against.

Least myself and my fellow band memebers do make the attempt to write our own material.

Are we folk singers? No we.re not, infact I do believe I have stated before, the British Tradition is a part, not the whole, of our repertoire. Other influences include The Carter Family, The Band, Woody Guthrie, The Weavers, Cecilia Costello, Sam Larner, Walter Pardon. The Coppers, Fairpory Convention, Bellowhead etc...etc..

Get it right!

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 06:07 PM

but I can think of one or two of the traddies heroes at whom that term could be levelled against.

Go on, Rifleman - fire away!

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 03:10 AM

"You don't recognise the picture of the folk revival I painted?"

I don't spend enough time there to know, to be honest. I recognise some of what you're saying in the self portrait of the folk world painted by some contributors to Mudcat, but I dunno about in the field. I've been to some fairly crap folk clubs in the past, but these days most of my engagement with the music is either via CD or via my local sinaground, neither of which fit the bill of fare you describe. Although I wouldn't ever describe myself as a "folkie", the folkies I know in real life seem to be a nice enough bunch on the whole. I get the feeling most of 'em don't give a stuff about the sort of things that get talked about here. Rather, they just like singing the songs.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 05:01 AM

Spleen: "I get the feeling most of 'em don't give a stuff about the sort of things that get talked about here. Rather, they just like singing the songs."

Yeppers. I really don't think that the ground floor give a crap about all this stuff either. I suspect the majority avoid such discussions quite *actively*. In fact I've heard people say as much.
I also recall sometime back looking into books about the history of Folk, and another 'Catter semi-seriously entreating me: "Don't go into the Light! Don't go into the Light! Don't become one of 'Them'!"

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 05:04 AM

Crow Sister - did you stay on the Dark Side? May the Force be with you!

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 05:11 AM

Perfectly true that most of 'em probably don't give a stuff. But how many posts does Mudcat receive from people wanting to know about the origins of this or that song or tune? Did you miss all the eulogies for Malcolm Douglas? You don't have to care about the stories and the history behind the songs but, for some of us at least, it makes what is already wonderful stand-alone music even more interesting.

Does that make me "one of Them"?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 05:58 AM

"I really don't think that the ground floor give a crap about all this stuff either."

The only reasonable position to hold. It's all been ghettoised into thought-speak by a few leaving your average folk fan bemused. If someone starts banging on at a festival I walk away. The next accusation is, 'so you don't like folk music' as though their views provide a direct line to what folk 'is'. Then it's 'ah so anything goes?' so their take or looking into an empty void. Then the word pop raises its head and they're off.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 05:59 AM

Plenty of human warmth in the Beech last night - I had to take my coat off. We laughed, we cried, we raised the roof.

But I'm afraid there were introductions; I introduced one song as an Appalachian variant of an old British song (historical fussiness, 'real' vs unreal kneejerks). And one person got to choose who would sing next (self-appointed hierarchies), while people who generally gave good performances or talked about interesting stuff were shown respect (time-served idiocy, folkier than thou arseholery). Almost everyone in the room knew almost everyone else (mistrust of anyone who isn't them), almost everyone was 40-something or over (general mistrust of youth or physical attractiveness), and everyone got on well with everyone else (hale-fellow bullshit).

It was an ordeal, really. I don't know why we put up with it.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 06:05 AM

Heavens above, Pip - just my experience last Monday! Where can we go to get away from this?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 06:25 AM

" ... so their take or looking into an empty void."

So fill the void with something, 'glueman' - I challenge you!

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 06:30 AM

Does that make me "one of Them"? "

Not necessarily Brian, though the sense of humour failure just might.. ;-)
It was of course but a flippant anecdote, intended to raise a small wry smile. And not a condemnation of anyone who might find interest in learning a little more about the songs they sing.

To explain: the fear was that my beginning to 'dabble' in serious book learning, might take me down a dangerous slippery slope of no return, whereby I might ultimately *become* one of Them: 'Them' who argue the toss - and in complete seriousness, on Mudcat threads such as these. As Spleen rightly said, most people into Folk are quite affable, easy going and welcoming people, and quite sensibly avoid such discussions.

Which reminds me, I really aughta get on and learn Bellamy's setting of Kiplings "Fathers of Old":

"We are afflicted by what we can prove,
We are distracted by what we know.
So - ah, so!
Down from your heaven or up from your mould,
Send us the hearts of our fathers of old !"

Ouch, now I think I'd better quickly shuffle back to the safety of the shadows...

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: TheSnail
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 06:33 AM

Interesting.

Compare this -

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman - PM
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 07:14 AM

-
-

So for most of the time I'm folk's n****r, always on the outside looking in the shop window, wanting the sweets at the back but not prepared to swallow the twaddle. BTW, that isn't a romantic vision of folk or myself, it's a fact and people might examine their own consciences to see whether they fit the picture.
It's music, that's it.


with this -

Subject: RE: Earning a living in Folk
From: GUEST,Ewan Spawned a Monster - PM
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:15 PM

-
-

In summary, Alex Petradis's comments do reflect how it often feels to those of us who are on the outside, faces squashed against the glass, looking in. A bit like interlopers in a world that isn't theirs. And maybe that's one of the reasons why there's not enough guest-based clubs to sustain the careers of more than just a few professional folk singers, and to go back to the point of the thread, its so hard for them to earn a living. As Tom Bliss has said, nationally, there simply aren't enough decent guest nights to go around. And we can't keep citing the same handful of examples that buck the trend in an attempt to keep our heads valiantly buried in the sand.

Could Ewan Spawned a Monster and glueman be one and the same?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 07:42 AM

Could Ewan Spawned a Monster and glueman be one and the same?

What? On the basis of one barely original metaphor? I think not, Sycophant! But that's quite a slime-trail you're leaving there; quite pretty too in certain lights, but you'll find me generally sympathetic to gastropods, with or without shells.

"one of Them"?

That set me thinking - am I one of them? To which the answer has to be a resounding yes, I'm rather afraid I am, though not without certain reservations of course, hem hem. Fact is any discipline designated Folk - be it lore, song, music, custom or tale - owes its very existence to the antiquarians and academics who perceived a subject worthy of collection, study and preservation in the first place thus giving rise to the whole merry shambles we know and (hopefully) love today. Thus you might find me poring over, say, the VOTP booklets if only because context is essential to any understanding or wider appreciation of these recordings; they are artefacts in a museum, so provenance is essential - otherwise you're up shit creek without a paddle. Likewise I regard Malcolm's Mudcat posts as one of the most important on-line resources on traditional song you might find.

Enquiry is part of human nature; and ignorance is most certainly not bliss - rather, it niggles away as an irritant engendering our urge to seek enlightenment. When Hux lately served up two classic slabs from the Dr Strangely Strange archive they did so in both cases with hefty booklets contextualising the music in terms of its inner mythos, which is something we fans of the Good Doctor had never seen before; likewise when Luca Ferrari issued his CD booklet on the Third Ear Band (Necromancers of the Drifting West) we looked on agog at the wonders therein. My appreciation of Frank Zappa was enriched by Ben Watson's Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play and I await the (imminent!) arrival of Daevid Allen's Gong Dreaming 2 with baited breath. My bookshelves are heavy with books on the music I love - Henry Purcell, Harry Partch, Scott Walker, Joy Division, Vivian Stanshall, The Manband, The Fall, Sun Ra, Duke Ellington, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Soft Machine. One day I hope there'll be a Peter Bellamy biography up there too, whose mythos might be explored on-line, in old magazines, or in the various sleeve-notes to the recent CD re-issues and compilations which serve to confirm the legend. I've also got any amount of books on The Marx Brothers too; I'd be quite stuffed without them to be honest.

Of course such wilful dilettantism is hardly academic - I'm sure my level of learning is no higher than your average Joe or Josephine who rushed out to buy Jade Goody's autobiography or any of the recent volumes of Michael Jackson - but understanding that on any level enquiry is engendered by our passions is essential, I feel, to our understanding of the broader appeal of Folk Music, Folk Song, Balladry etc. - which we wouldn't have without the academics and the collectors.

So, this is me, in all sweet deference, doffing the owld cloth cap, tugging the old greasy forelock, before exclaiming Gawd bless you, Mr Sharp! in a hoarse wheeze as I fling myself into the nearest ditch.

Thank you one and all; you done us proud.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 08:06 AM

Does that make me "one of Them"? "
Not necessarily Brian, though the sense of humour failure just might...

No SOH failure, Crow Sister, my remark was as tongue-in-cheek as I understood yours to be.

It's just when I read stuff like It's all been ghettoised into thought-speak [sic] by a few leaving your average folk fan bemused then I think it's worth sticking up for the value of curiosity against know-nothing-ism.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 08:19 AM

"Enquiry is part of human nature;"

Sure, I don't think that's quite the issue. And you're slightly missing my not very serious point. It's simply the case that, your average enthusiast tends not to want to engage in online arguments about what, how, when and who constitutes "folk".

These sorts of threads are jolly interesting sometimes, and entertaining too, especially when the hard-core name-calling starts!

But it's only about half a dozen members of Mudcat that engage in them, thus as Spleen said, such online discussions (and whatever picture they appear to paint of 'folkies'), are not representative of the broader reality of real world folk enthusiasts in any way.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 08:20 AM

" ... then I think it's worth sticking up for the value of curiosity against know-nothing-ism."

So do I, Mr Peters, so do I!! In my book 'wilful ignorance' is a dreary sin and nothing to boast about or even admit to. In addition 'learning stuff' has been a lifelong joy for me.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 08:21 AM

"No SOH failure, Crow Sister, my remark was as tongue-in-cheek as I understood yours to be."

Fair enough Brian! Anyway, I'm outa here before I get pulled into further dangerous quibbling! :-)

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 08:28 AM

"But it's only about half a dozen members of Mudcat that engage in them"

Exactly. Mistaking Mudcat for real life is never a good idea.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 08:59 AM

your average enthusiast tends not to want to engage in online arguments about what, how, when and who constitutes "folk".

It happens in real life sometimes, like when I'm minding my pint or tuning my zither and someone steps out of the gloom and asks me if my approach is in any way authentic and if so, might I be so good as to explain how? Generally this is preceded by an enquiry about my instruments, which always attract this sort of attention, but there are those who wish to take it further down to road of what is traditional with an air of confrontation arising from an assured sense of righteousness, however so misplaced. So I point out that I'm not interested in authenticity, that I find the very concept anathematic to the business of life and the living thereof. At this point they look at me puzzled, then ask the $64,000 Question - then what are you doing in a folk club?

At such times I might as myself the same question. But then again, the Folk Scene is possessed of an underlying cultural autism that craves definition and pedantic absolutes in answer to deeper collective insecurity. It attracts those sorts of people, those culturally & genetically pre-disposed to enthusiasm; I meet them in most folk clubs I go to, likewise folk festivals, folk fora, singarounds etc. and in them I see an aspect of myself. Not so much there but for the grace of God go I, but almost a sense of envy akin to that which I feel for Christians and other believers. In that sense I might feel like the outsider looking in, face squashed against the glass, only too happy that I can walk away and maybe have a look at what's going on it the next window, or the one after that, knowing that to get in all I have do is knock...

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 09:14 AM

It's a heck of a long jump from enthusiasm - an entirely admirable quality, I'd have thought - to , isn't it Suibhne?

I afraid I just don't meet these people who "crave definition and pedantic absolutes" except in the context of discussions in which definitions of some kind are necessary to understand what the other fellow is on about. Folk clubs have always seemed to me to be some of the most musically inclusive venues anywhere - wasn't that what you were saying not so long ago?

And the reason for the endless "What is Folk?" discussions is that people keep asking the question (often with mischievous motives), not because your "true believers" start them.

Oh oh, getting sucked in here. Better go and re-seal the bath.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 09:17 AM

That should have read: "It's a heck of a long jump from enthusiasm - an entirely admirable quality, I'd have thought - to cultural autism, isn't it Suibhne?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 09:54 AM

I think enthusiasm is very much a symptom of the cultural autism which is a further consequence of the societal insecurities arising from the sort of world we live in today. In such a world culture exists by virtue of a past no-one is quite clear about but which is, none the less, accessible at the touch of a button. If the youth of the 1960s showed as much passion with retro-culture as do the youth of today, they would have been grooving to the sounds of Ace Brigode and His 14 Virginians. To what extent did the baby-boomer Folk Revival come of such a reactionary impulse I wonder? Either way, we are increasingly beset with the past, by way of heritage, in a way that is, I fear, more than strictly good for us. Personally I feel we're all craving definition and pedantic absolutes, but in facing the increasing uncertainties of the future, what else can we do?

I'm not complaining here by the way, I'm celebrating.

This Sunday in Fleetwood it's The Transport Festival - aka Tram Sunday - one of the Fylde's choice celebrations of a cultural autism we might all enjoy, fuelled as it is by enthusiasts of every vintage imaginable. If anyone's passing, it's a must!

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 10:18 AM

Exactly. Mistaking Mudcat for real life is never a good idea.]end of quote]
all these posts[98 percent twaddle].and at last something sensible.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 10:26 AM

SOP's last two posts are a perfect summary of my take on the whole thing. The important point is to recognise our desire for 'pedantic absolutes' can never be fulfilled, there is no 'authenticity' beyond an agreed set of values. Contentment comes when we recognise folk, as with most cultural objects is on a scale of illusion and live in peaceful co-existense with other people's dream without reaching for a truth enema to purge their misunderstanding.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 11:09 AM

"Personally I feel we're all craving definition and pedantic absolutes, but in facing the increasing uncertainties of the future, what else can we do?"

Read Alan Watts "Wisdom of Insecurity".

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 11:53 AM

The important point is to recognise our desire for 'pedantic absolutes' can never be fulfilled, there is no 'authenticity' beyond an agreed set of values.

I feel it's more important own such a desire, to feed it, to indulge it, even nurture it; to go with the inner flow however so derived. All human culture is based on agreed sets of values - without which, I feel, we're well and truly adrift!

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 12:35 PM

"I feel it's more important own such a desire, to feed it, to indulge it, even nurture it; to go with the inner flow however so derived. All human culture is based on agreed sets of values"

The logical conclusions of "feeding, nurturing or indulging" a craving for pedantic absolutes, has resulted in the real world throughout human history, in very real and horrendous war and genocide (amongst other horrors of human paranoia in the face of the impossible).

That IMO, is a different and far more dodgy matter than aknowleging and accepting the relativism and collective pragmatic utility of "agreed sets of values".

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 12:48 PM

But we ARE well and truly adrift.

We tell ourselves stories in the dark to quell our anxieties, a fabric(ation) woven of fantasy. A continual suspension of disbelief: a spiders thread tightrope spun across the void, whether it is one to dance upon or one to cling to, it's all the same.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 01:00 PM

One of the important things about any music, especially a folk form, is that it has a steady influx of new blood. Unfortunately the authoritarians or absolutists, while by no means a majority, are common enough within the tradition to turn off newbies or those dipping a toe (or an ear). That and the barmy dress codes.

Much folk music is accessible and communal and I wonder why it isn't more popular. What may be happening is folk's youthful element are staying out of a debate and a club scene they see as irrelevant. I don't think the pernickety strand is compulsory to appreciation and hope that folk will carry its history lightly, a common knowledge that one taps into and out of at will without obsessing over.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 01:09 PM

Much folk music is accessible and communal and I wonder why it isn't more popular. What may be happening is folk's youthful element are staying out of a debate and a club scene they see as irrelevant.[end of quote],lets have some evidence.
my impression is that they are happy enough to play in folk clubs if they are paid,if they cant get gigs in arts centres,or in noisy pubs [where they are treated as wallpaper music],but still play cos they are broke].
performers need any venues they can get,but generally prefer thgose where they are listened to.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 01:20 PM

That and the barmy dress codes.

Eh?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 01:22 PM

"What may be happening is folk's youthful element are staying out of a debate and a club scene they see as irrelevant."

The tide does seem to be changing here it seems. Twentysumthings are discovering the genre anew - or so I hear. There was even a proper dishy/trendy young fella, couldn't have been much more than twenty (far to young for me anyway) performing at one of the amateur events I attended a while back. He'd got his young dishy/trendy mates with him too. Metrosexual hairdo's, skinny black jeans and all. Quite a surprise to me, but nice to see. It's the thirtysumthings like me, and fourtysumthings (including my friends), that seem to have been completely bypassed.

My own pet theory is that English folk has possibly gained a sharp leg-up in the wake of the strength of the revival in interest in the 'Celtic' folk scene. A 'viral' thing, so to speak. Cultural contagion.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 01:28 PM

There have been enough horse brasses and pointy hats and leather tankard threads without the onus of proof being on me for that one.
My impression of newer bands is that they move through folk clubs fairly swiftly for the festival circuit. Yes, I can think of exceptions but as a rule of thumb that is the case. Why worry about what a self appointed folk guardian thinks when you have a ready audience who don't GAF either way?

(waits for thumb gags)

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 01:28 PM

than aknowleging and accepting the relativism and collective pragmatic utility of "agreed sets of values".

You make it sound as though we have a choice, CS. I don't believe we do. Everything we are is thus pre-determined, even down to the words we use to talk about it.

But we ARE well and truly adrift.

Or maybe that's just another story we tell ourselves in the dark, not so much the quell our fears, but to experience them more vividly, like a ghost story, which might frighten us because even though such things as ghosts might not be real, our capacity to fear them is real enough.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 01:31 PM

It's the thirtysumthings like me, and fourtysumthings (including my friends), that seem to have been completely bypassed.

Ain't that the truth!

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 01:32 PM

Agree wiv da sister on this, folk (even The Tradition) is fashionable at the moment or so my 11 year old tells me. Let's hope they don't come across people asking them to prove they are 'authentic'.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 02:34 PM

I must admit Glueman, when I began reading this board late last year - it was all a bit overwhelming... So many strongly expressed and authoritative absolute opinions about what WAS or SHOULD be in ordfer for something to be CORRECT. In fact it was people like our own SO'P who helped me learn to not give a damn and just get on and sing. Thus I take some of his assertions on this thread, with something of a pinch of salt. But then I suspect he rather enjoys playing the Trickster. Another factor which completely remedied my anxieties, was getting out and meeting and singing with people on the ground floor in Essex, Kent and Suffolk. I now know that I could walk into any folk club in the country and be welcomed and have a pretty enjoyable evening. Of course, as I've said elsewhere, the likelihood of getting a shag is zero unless you're around retirement age, which has got to be something of a teensy-weensy put-off to younger and thus shag-questing generations...

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 03:12 PM

Another factor which completely remedied my anxieties, was getting out and meeting and singing with people on the ground floor in Essex, Kent and Suffolk. I now know that I could walk into any folk club in the country and be welcomed and have a pretty enjoyable evening.

Amen to that. As for glueman's 'barmy dress code', it's true that you will occasionally meet a few eccentrics who believe that being a folkie at a folk event requires they dress in a certain way. But so what? If it doesn't stop you or me dressing how we want to and still being accepted, then let them have their fun.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 03:14 PM

Not sure that's true of festivals or gigs Sis. Lots of attractive hormonally abundant 20s and 30s, trad and nu fans. Went to a Bellowhead gig a few weeks ago and at 50 (glorious) years I was probably the oldest there and the median looked about 28.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 03:23 PM

Just to add I wasn't cruising for talent, my good lady accompanied me. That's why groups like b'head are so important, they provide an acceptable template for the folk-curious. Kids can imagine band members in the throes of passion, rather than, say, passing out and wetting themselves - always a good index for the 'shag-questing' generation as you so graphically put it.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 03:44 PM

Gman, Sure.
I haven't actually done a 'proper' folk fez as yet this year (despite plans otherwise). Though having been an alt-fez goer in past, I recognise the classic demographic of fezzy goers.

I suspect, unless something radically alters in the near future, that the traditional 'folk club with guest', or indeed the 'amateur folk circle' which is apparently superceding it, will indeed die out in a matter of a bare smattering of decades.

Which I feel is actually rather a shame.
For I have a real fond spot for the classic 60's politically activist, liberal Guardian reading, educated working-class, folk revival generation. They are a unique breed peculiar to the particular social, political and intellectual ferment that birthed them, and I personally think we will be far the worse without them: pewter tankards, brown leather sandals, naive social idealism, panchromatic trousers and all.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 03:54 PM

"folk-curious."

Love that! So small ads.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 05:18 PM

Now then, I agree with a lot of that CS and if the Manchester Rambling, MacColic Lovin', finger in the brain image wasn't all too often a reality, we could all enjoy it for the heritage poster it is. I fear however, that it devoureth all whom it meet.

That Ken Barlow college scarf, duffel coat and desert boots, ex-grammar lad thing takes on a slightly sinister tone when it meets The Tradition.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 05:45 PM

"That Ken Barlow college scarf, duffel coat and desert boots, ex-grammar lad thing takes on a slightly sinister tone when it meets The Tradition."

Eeew! Sounds like a perfect scripted scary formula for Doctor Who...

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 05:50 PM

Davros as folkie? Wouldn't be at all surprised.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 06:22 PM

That Ken Barlow college scarf, duffel coat and desert boots, ex-grammar lad thing

Sigh. Never met any of them either. What strange and scary folk circles you move in, glueman.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 06:33 PM

200