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Collapse of the Folk Clubs
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: jacqui.c Date: 05 May 07 - 05:26 PM Some women would be very intimidated and scared by this. So how do these women manage to live a day to day life? If they are so scared of admiring glances in a folk club, and that is, after all, all that is being said, how would such tender little flowers deal with walking past a building site or just going into a pub? The level of interest in those areas is going to be a lot more obvious than will probably be the case in a folk club. Trust me, I've been in that situation and I know! Would you have all women walking around in public in burkas? That is what it will take to prevent the majority of men from admiring a pretty girl. The fact that they might admire does not mean that a) they are perverts or b) that they intend to take it further. My husband still admires and comments on the looks of some women and I find that both natural and healthy. If a man finds a girl attractive then why should he not try to chat her up? That is how many good marriages have started and it would be a sad old world if men, or women, were afraid to approach a member of the opposite sex because of the fear of repercussions. If you have had any experience of real perverts maybe you would be a little more careful with the use of that word. There is a lot of difference between a good healthy interest in the opposite sex and the twisted desires of some very sick people. I would say that denying people the opportunity to show an interest in the opposite sex is more likely to add to the collapse of any social grouping than to help it continue. John Blanks - if you were to become a member of the Mudcat I would send you my email address as I would love to hear your version of Annachie Gordon. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Rasener Date: 05 May 07 - 05:14 PM In fact why don't you one day come and give us a visit. I can guarantee you will be made to feel at home and welcomed by many mudcatters with a mudcatter hug. We ae all very friendly at Faldingworth Live and Gainsborough Folk Club. We just enjoy life. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Rasener Date: 05 May 07 - 05:09 PM Unfortunately CR, you are totally wrong about GS He is a well respected person and has a wicked sense of humour. You may well have been the victim of such wicked humour. When at my club, he is the perfect gentleman and very well behaved and I know there are a lot of mudcatters who will vouch for that. If he was like that, he would be barred from my club. I would never tolerate bad behaviour at my club. However I do love a wicked sense of humour and people who are nice & decent humans. My club has the utmost decorum and respect for all people who come to it, incluuding single women. I have had a number of women who come to my club who have thanked me for the very pleasant and welcoming hospitality and being made to feel at home. You are totally barking up the wrong street, sorry to say. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 04:57 PM Though (for the sake of getting 100) I have to say that Ryburn Three Step is probably the best in the world. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 04:55 PM Oh and I should have said that on the night I attended St Albans I had more fun in a club than I'd had for a very long time. If only more were like it. It's in my top 10 in the land. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 04:50 PM Breezy is of course quite right and the good old Ref should blow his whistle (or at least sing very loudly). The incident to which I am referring is (as GS knows perfectly well), when, on his own admission, he was ogling a woman, James Blunt stylee, who was at a club with her partner. As GS surely ought now realise (but refuses), this was inappropriate, ridiculous and offensive, no way to behave in a f*lk club where the persons attending have (usually) at least some idea of how to conduct themselves in this day and age, and the woman concerned could have been (and probably was) very intimidated. The reason why I am angry is that the perpetrator refuses to recognise that there is anything wrong with such crass behaviour. I am, of course, unaware of whether this put the woman off from ever coming back to the club. But it might have done. Just think: retired shrink/car boot person largely responsible for collapse of clubs . . . (As it happens, I have been contacted offlist by a woman who is, I suppose, too scared to post who described similar incidents at clubs. This is wholly reprehensible and needs to be addressed). |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Rasener Date: 05 May 07 - 04:19 PM Breezy Everybody that performs at FL gets treated with respect and courtesy. George was great last night. Are you back from Padstow? |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: breezy Date: 05 May 07 - 04:14 PM I think the ref ought to blow his whistle and end the game I have had the pleasure of C R visitng one of my clubs, it was the Spotlight in St Albans, giving 'new faces'a chance. I have also guested at the Villan's club and was warmly received I have seen and heard John Blanks and he even travelled to St Albans and spotlighted as have Sooz and mike D and very good evenings they gave us and for very little remuneration If more 'named' atristes were to expect more realistic fees and thus promote their musisc then maybe the folk club scene would thrive. Folk clubs are alive, but there are very few organisers on mudcat to give this thread credence Please let us return to the topic and put aside the discussion that has dominated btw The windward experience in St aLbans next meets on Sunday 20th May at the Rose and crown, with residents papag, fleggy, moses ref and me, there is no charge but we do hold a raffle in aid of leukaemia busters O H shit, a high jack , well ould habits die hard, and my autumn tour, entitled, 'Here's to the power of song' starts on sunday 9th September at Folk on the moor. Bishop Stortford the following Thursday bye |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Georgiansilver Date: 05 May 07 - 04:08 PM Yes EJ it was me playing it....lovely Belgian instrument......good for throwing too especially sharp end first....need to make sure there are no beautiful women around first though, wouldn't want to hurt one. ROFLOL. Good for throwing at photos of people you don't like or who don't like you for some obscure reason..... |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Lonesome EJ Date: 05 May 07 - 03:10 PM Reading this, I'm reminded again of the irony in the fact that the British have somehow earned a world-wide reputation for being polite and reserved. Lonesome EJ (sitting in the Pub corner watching the melee while wearing a rain-slicker and fending off thrown-objects with a trash-can lid) What the hell was that just went flying by? Looked like a bombarde! |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Rasener Date: 05 May 07 - 03:10 PM You might be right |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: GUEST Date: 05 May 07 - 03:00 PM Methinks she has finally flipped! |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Georgiansilver Date: 05 May 07 - 02:15 PM Countess....you state >>>>>I do, and the relevant part of that is that it occurred in a f*lk club. Some women would be very intimidated and scared by this. I'm bloody angry.<<<< The relevant part of what occurred in a folk club? Which women or what type of woman would be intimidated and scared and why should you be angry..what reason do you have? Please try to give sensible answers that are relevant and completely explanatory....if you can. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 09:46 AM I do, and the relevant part of that is that it occurred in a f*lk club. Some women would be very intimidated and scared by this. I'm bloody angry. I have no statistics on whether this contributed to the collapse of clubs but what I am certain of is that in this day and age, such behaviour should be discouraged, nay prevented. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Dave Earl Date: 05 May 07 - 09:40 AM You have said that what you think someone has done makes that person a Pervert. Getting mighty close it seems to me. But I'm sick and tired of all this so I will leave you to your juvenile activities and get on with my own life. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 09:12 AM I haven't libelled, slandered or defamed anyone. What I do is to draw attention to the ludicrous, actionable and/or offensive things they say themselves. Such as that creep staring at my photograph. Yeuk, scary. However, alleging that I live in Liverpool . . . there could be a law suit in that . . . |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Dave Earl Date: 05 May 07 - 08:50 AM Ms Easby You'll go too far one day. There is a thing called Libel tha knows! Dave |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 08:09 AM |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Georgiansilver Date: 05 May 07 - 07:57 AM If the antique dealer you are referring to is me Countess, I would suggest you try again. I do a little collecting of antiques but my occupation before my very early retirement some years ago, was clinical psychologist. If you would like a personal assessment...based on your posts here I would be only too happy to provide one and suggest suitable treatment for your condition (if you wanted)..although I would imagine you would feel no need of such help. If pervy is how you see me then you are lacking in insight where assessment of your fellow human beings is concerned....in my teens maybe but we all have to grow up at some point don't we....or do you? |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Dave Earl Date: 05 May 07 - 07:52 AM Sorry crossed in post My remark was meant for Ms Easby Dave |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Dave Earl Date: 05 May 07 - 07:47 AM Do you expect sympathy? Tough luck!! Dave |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: GUEST,John Blanks Date: 05 May 07 - 07:44 AM "Hmmm, well you were self-promoting." Nonsense, lady. I was reacting to an inferred critical judgment based on nothing but an apparent all-consuming bigotry and, by offering to provide you with the means, hoping to turn that baseless criticism into something quantifiable and justifiable. Why don't you understand that? "And I was just telling you how it is. I'd listen to you . . . eventually." I've already said, three times, that's what I expect. I accepted what you'd said - three times I stated it. I've had reviews before, I'm aware that there's a process and it takes time - I said I understood, three times. Why don't you understand that? "I know you won't be better than Nic Jones at performing Annachie Gordon. But you'd surely be better than Mary Black. Aren't you?" I've re-read my posts very carefully, and I can't find anwhere where I've compared the quality of my performance of Annachie against Nic's. In fact I said I've never heard it - which is the truth. I never compare my own performances against those of others (except in the privacy of my own mind when trying to assess how to 'do' a song, or whether it's ready to play out), and you won't provoke me to. Nic and Mary are very talented and successful artists, I stake no claim to be their equal. Nic is Nic, Mary's Mary, I'm John. Three people - three singers of the same song. The link ends there. Why don't you understand that? "Well, I'll see if it turns up . . . " It will, if you want it to. So far you've only told me to send it 'if you want to', and that you're so busy you probably won't have time to listen to it. I told you earlier that I can't please everyone, and that I won't turn myself inside out trying. Whatever you say about it (and I suspect that that would be subject to a pretty profound degree of bigotry if the stuff you've posted on here is anything to go by), it won't have any effect on me, because you're just one small voice amongst many. Your views may or may not have validity, but no more so than anyone else's. Why don't you understand that? Time to do something useful. 'Bye |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 07:19 AM Oops, didn't mean to post before adding the reason for the groan. I keep getting this scary vision of the pervy antique dealer gazing at my purple pic. Omigod. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 07:14 AM ***PANICKY GROAN*** |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 06:45 AM I was quoting the OP, Mr Villan. You must have skipped that one. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Ian Burdon Date: 05 May 07 - 06:44 AM I started reading this thread interested in it's ostensible topic and then kept reading in much the same way as I watch unfolding natural disasters on rolling news channels. My impression, for what its worth, is of pots and kettles bristling as they rush to identify each other's blackness. Anyway, I wonder how much of the 'decline' has to do with a drift away from f*lk as a participative medium to a performance based and thouroughly marketing labelled and sub-genred thing. For the most part the source singers whose repetoires formed the basis for the booms of the fifties and sixties have passed on and the links in the chain to those sources are also getting longer. The travellers from whom many songs in our modern canon of "traditional" music have their immediate source as part of their traditional existence are urbanised and the agricultural culture which sustained them is mechanised, automated and block-granted out of existence. Similarly seafaring communities/occupations, steel, mining, shipbuilding - all industries and occupations which sustained generations in communities of shared experience in a way that suburbs full of salaried staff do not. I suppose that this is a somewhat grandiose way of saying that to the extent that the music and traditions emerged from communities which time has eviscerated it is no surprise that the sustaining force behind the music and traditions has faded leaving only performance and as folk clubs have inexorably become performance venues they have to compete on level terms with other musical genres perceived to be more relevant and - with the exception of those still fighting the Trad/Be-bop wars in jazz - less prone to squabbling. I exaggerate a little for rhetorical effect I confess. And yet.... Some of us are trying to revive the tradition of Rapper dancing here in Edinburgh - we're still practicing and haven't yet danced out - but people - mostly young - who have seen us practicing stay and watch: not because we're necessarily any good yet but because for them it's new and different and entertaining and contextualises the music in a way that doesn't carry associations of "Folk Music". Anyway I'm starting to ramble so I'll stop. Ian |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 06:43 AM I've tried to open a door for a reasonable conversation Hmmm, well you were self-promoting. Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of it goes on around here. And I was just telling you how it is. I'd listen to you . . . eventually. I know you won't be better than Nic Jones at performing Annachie Gordon. But you'd surely be better than Mary Black. Aren't you? Well, I'll see if it turns up . . . |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Rasener Date: 05 May 07 - 06:43 AM There you go again CR. You never know when to stop dishing out tripe. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 06:37 AM I did wonder whether the Lincolnshire contingent had confused music with a fanatical and obscure political or religious sect. As I said much earlier, I steer clear of 'clubs' apart from a very select few. They're past their sell-by, as are their denizens, possessed as they are with what passes for brains frozen in outdated attitudes towards both social actuality and musical developments. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: GUEST,John Blanks Date: 05 May 07 - 06:35 AM Okay people, thanks for your well-meaning support, I'm flattered but it's unneccessary - I'm a big boy, I can tie my shoes myself, go to the lavatory on my own, write in joined-up letters, and it's counter-productive to continue the invective when I'm trying to conduct a conversation in a civilised manner. Genuinely no offence intended to anyone I know, or even those I don't. "I have piles of largely unsolicited, unplayed stuff." Yep, I expected that, that's why I asked out of politeness if you would like me to send it. "If an mp3 from John Blanks turns up it might get played, eventually" Yep, I expected that, that's why I asked out of politeness if you would like me to send it. "It's entirely counter-productive for a gang of mates of a hitherto unknown (to me) artist to leap up and down shrieking 'you've got to hear xxx who is miles better than . . .' That's how many CDs end up as bird scarers among the runner beans." Yep, I expected that, that's why I asked out of politeness if you would like me to send it. Yep, I'm pretty-much unheard-of outside Lincolnshire, some of Notts., and a bit of South Yorkshire, and I'm just a guy who likes to sing and play, and who has been fortunate enough to be appreciated by the members of most of the clubs I've played in. I have no pretentions to 'stardom' (shit, inverted commas - you've got me doing it now!), I eschewed my opportunities for stardom (with a couple of bands who had a number of chart 'hits' in the UK and Europe in the 60's) in favour of higher education and training as an accountant (my first bad decision in a chain of them). My only aim is to sing and play the songs I love to anyone who can take pleasure from them. In fact, these people are not my 'gang of mates'. They're people, some of whom I'm privileged to know and run into fairly frequently at clubs in my area, who have presumably enjoyed my performances. Their decalarations of undying loyalty are unsolicited - however, they are very, very much appreciated. I offered you a copy of my singing of 'Annachie Gordon' as a response to a clear jibe, to your obvious inference that it would be of a quality which you would find unacceptable at worst, or barely tolerable at best. Nothing more, nothing less. As I said earlier, I can't please everyone, and I won't try, but I prefer constructive criticism based on substantive judgment, to put-downs based on......what? Willie-hatred? Penis-envy? It wasn't I who mentioned my singing of the song in the first place remember. I've tried to open a door for a reasonable conversation, in civilised terms and without inter-sex negativity, but I sense that I'm urinating into the airflow. I'm gone. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Les in Chorlton Date: 05 May 07 - 06:27 AM I think at one point I was with the position or opinion and experience that CR brought to this discussion. I kind of feel that some of us did not help, but the recent exchanges are beyond me or the point of this thread. The number of Folk Clubs is much less than it was and perhaps the attitudes revealed by a minority of these posts was a, probably small, contributor? I feel sure you will all recall that bit in the Life of Brian where they discuss the relative values of the Peoples Front for the Liberation of Judea versus The Liberation Front of the People of Judea or some such groups. Some of this thead feels a bit like that. Some people who run or go to clubs did behave a bit like members of some obscure Trotskist / Stalinist sect and it did not help! Off to post leaflets for our Folk Night Cheers Les |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Rasener Date: 05 May 07 - 06:20 AM >>I have piles << My sympathies go with you Countess Richard |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 06:20 AM Oh and Mr Villan, I've no idea whether my playing is better or worse than the people you mention as I don't know them. I'm not, however, looking for gigs and you are most unlikely to see me. As anyone who knows me is aware, it is a long while since I performed in public and I am not about to begin again. Why would I when so many do it better? Do go and bluster at somebody else. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 06:04 AM I have piles of largely unsolicited, unplayed stuff. If an mp3 from John Blanks turns up it might get played, eventually. Les Villan, as a club organiser, operates his booking policy, presumably, in a similar fashion. It's entirely counter-productive for a gang of mates of a hitherto unknown (to me) artist to leap up and down shrieking 'you've got to hear xxx who is miles better than . . .' That's how many CDs end up as bird scarers among the runner beans. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Rasener Date: 05 May 07 - 05:54 AM Countess If your voice was as good as John's and your guitar playing was as good as his and your fiddle playing was as good as Paul Young who was on at Faldingworth Live, I would come and see you. However I doubt if you match up to any of those. I was with John when he sang 'Annachie Gordon' live on Radio Lincolnshire. It was so good, it went onto the Yellowbellies 1 CD for charity without any editing (so good was it) Lets face it Countess, it is you who is the insulting person on here. >>I MIGHT want to hear it<< You insulting person |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: stallion Date: 05 May 07 - 05:46 AM Piss artists please note, a good free for all session at the Tap & Spile , York, Friday nights, no entrance fee, no paid guests, no angst ( unless you count having to stand cos all the seats are taken)and no, no PRS, 100% of nowt is nowt. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Georgiansilver Date: 05 May 07 - 05:44 AM Thanks Breton Cap...or is it hatman?? Yes I remember a little recent fracas. All harmless banter really...worthy only of the odd laugh when a particularly funny comment arrives...I enjoy it. As for being sexist...I guess she has judged me on a simple comment and I will be a sexist pig forever.....I could be called worse things I suppose. Anyway...which Folk Clubs are collapsing?? Anything we can do to help?? |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 05:40 AM I MIGHT want to hear it. I'm sure it's 'very nice'. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Georgiansilver Date: 05 May 07 - 05:40 AM >>>>>>I might listen to it<<<<<< Don't bother John! Your music is well appreciated elsewhere and your rendering of Annachie Gordon is certainly one of the best I've heard. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Dave Earl Date: 05 May 07 - 05:39 AM John Banks ,Stallion Gergiansilver et al. As you may have seen in other threads I've crossed sword with herself. Never got anything other than ranting and swearing. Like the man said life is too short so I've given up trying. Don't let me stop you guys though. Dave (bet she jumps down my throat for this) |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: GUEST,John Blanks Date: 05 May 07 - 05:38 AM "Send me an mp3 if you want." Well, I'm whelmed by the enthusiasm. (That's something less than overwhelmed, but more than underwhelmed, BTW!). I don't *want* anything other than a happy life, which I'm pleased to say I have, and peaceful interaction with other human beings. It's more a question of *if YOU want*. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: GUEST,John Blanks Date: 05 May 07 - 05:33 AM And yes, I spelled 'turn' wrong. Late night, early morning and dyslexic fingers. Please don't hit me with that big stick.....LOL! |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 05:33 AM Send me an mp3 if you want. George Papavgeris has my email. I might listen to it. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: GUEST,John Blanks Date: 05 May 07 - 05:29 AM Oh dear, Countess. "however else can I refer to it other than as 'probably very nice'? I didn't condemn it, unheard, as 'rubbish', did I?" From your earlier posts, I've gleaned information that you have a journalistic background. You are therefore completely aware of the effect of enclosing words or groups of words in inverted commas. In this case the impact, as you well know and IMO intended, was to reverse the compliment that is contained in the words. In other words it was a bait, I guess in the forlorn hope that I would be provoked into falling into the trap of resorting to kind of fish-wifey retaliation that you excel in. Tough - you failed, I'm not that kind of guy. I'm very comfortable with myself, in the kind of way that surviving a protracted life-threatening illness makes a person, and I don't feel the need to beat people up, even when they try to do it to me. Life's too short (and much too happy!) Regarding my singing of 'Annachie Gordon', it may well be, in the eyes of some, that it's 'rubbish'. No problemo, can't please 'em all, and I won't turm myself inside-out trying. I can cheerfully accept criticism when it's well-meant and based on something other than the desire to poke a male person in the eye with a sharp stick. If you'd like to do something positive, as a bit of relief from handing out all that negativity, I'll be delighted to send you an MP3 and you can tell me what you think. "Don't call me a 'lady'." Whatevaaaahhh (yawnnnn......). A rose by any other name, etc., etc. Best wishes, JB |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 05:25 AM I take that to mean that at your Tap & Spile you avoid paying PRS royalties. Artists please note. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 05:22 AM . . . indeed in the light of your previous unnecessary, derogatory and offensive remarks about women, I'd feel happier if you weren't looking at my image at all. |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: stallion Date: 05 May 07 - 05:16 AM well well well, life isn't all about money, PRS at the Tap. now that is bordering on comedic, for christ's sake don't anyone whistle Dixie it might be difficult to work out who to pay the PRS money to! Time to lighten up, to be honest o noble one your posts are becoming a real hoot like Jack Dee on speed! But I don't think they show you in a good light and a less informed readership may look to each other and confirm some old cliches, is it May already! good lord lets dust off Hal and Tow (Waterson's version of course) |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 05:01 AM Yes I am the person in the members' info section. But don't let it stop you from pissing off . . . |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: Georgiansilver Date: 05 May 07 - 04:59 AM Sadly the lower end of your behaviour rears its ugly head again. Telling people to p... off is playground behaviour and should have been left there years ago....I feel very sorry for you now as it would seem that you are not the woman in the photo in the members info section......she would not be behaving or relating in the manner you exhibit here. Please take your time to think about your posts and 'smell the coffee' as the saying goes. You are actually sounding like a bitter older person who is resorting to childish tactics to survive. We love you Countess....her's a hug for you (((((((Diane)))))))) |
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Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 05 May 07 - 04:57 AM The post above was for the (non) silver-tongued person. John Blanks: Don't call me a 'lady'. And as I haven't heard your rendition of Annachie Gordon, however else can I refer to it other than as 'probably very nice'? I didn't condemn it, unheard, as 'rubbish', did I? |
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